0:00 Alright, did you saw that fucking thing with that girl? That went a bit viral, the thing with that girl. 0:11 Yes, I know what you're talking about. But I don't know this person actually. 0:15 Do you want me to describe it a bit? 0:17 Glozal. 0:18 I can't touch the tweet anymore. 0:20 She's supposedly a Bitcoin Core developer, and then she changed her Tinder profile to ask about Bitcoin. 0:28 Yeah, so the girl's name on Twitter, she is, oh, her Twitter is like, you can't see her Twitter if you're not one of her followers. 0:39 Her name is Gloria. 0:40 Oh, that's weird. 0:41 Her name is Gloria. She looks really cute, by the way. I think she's very young. She's like a 22-year-old girl. 0:46 And she posted this thing on Twitter that, oh my God, I need help with Bitcoin, right? And she's somewhere in Silicon Valley. 0:54 And the thing is that she contributes to Core to some degree. I don't know what she does exactly, I didn't check out. 0:59 And then, oh my God, look how funny it was that me, who's a Core developer, is getting helped by these guys. 1:05 And you know what? Look, I don't want to be mean, and I don't want to piss anyone out, and I think I will, though. 1:10 But get your fucking daddy's issues straight, alright? Like, look, what the fuck is this? 1:15 I feel like, you know what, I was the only one who was like, wait, so this girl goes like, hey, give me some attention. 1:21 I need some attention. Look at me, give me attention. And someone goes like, well, okay, here's your attention. 1:26 That's why we're on a dating app, because you're a female, and I'm going to try to do everything and try to overcompensate 1:32 and try to get her attention and elliptic curve multiplication and whatever. 1:35 And then she's like, ha, ha, ha, look at you. What? What is that? 1:39 I agree with you that it was predictable and sort of manipulative, but it's kind of like these poor men. 1:47 Again, it's a question of who's scamming who. Like, is Tinder scamming women? 1:55 Or is it scamming some men, like the bottom whatever, 80% of men or whatever that means? 2:02 Or is it, like, who is this, who is the spell being cast on? 2:09 Who's being just driven to the rocks? I don't know. 2:12 But it's just more of a sign of our modern times where people interact through the medium of these apps. 2:18 And yeah, I don't know. I mean, it was worth a laugh. 2:22 I mean, putting it on – intentionally doing it and then putting it on Twitter to, like, show the whole world, kind of mean-spirited. 2:30 But whatever. What are you going to do? 2:32 It's terrible, isn't it? Like, who even – that's why I'm like – yeah. 2:39 Well, one second right now. Let's just put it like this. I've been spending a bit of time myself on a dating app. 2:44 So let's say you're on a dating app, right? And you see a girl that talks about it. 2:48 It's like you're going to jump off your chair and you're going to be like, oh my god, I can't believe it, right? 2:52 And then this girl is, like, mocking you for, like, actually really showing interest in what she said. 2:57 It's like, I mean, that's a bit – it's like, what the fuck are we talking about here, right? 3:01 Yeah, there's a good XKCD. 3:05 There's an XKCD where there's, like, the guy and the girl sitting next to each other on a bus or a train or something. 3:13 And the guy is thinking about – he's going over his head all the different ways he might, like, approach the girl and say something. 3:22 And he's, like, trying this stuff, but he's imagining all the ways it could go wrong. 3:28 And he's imagining the girl will just, like, freak out and tell everyone that he's a creep and call all her friends and post pictures of him online and stuff and say that he's a loser. 3:43 So he just doesn't say anything. 3:45 And then the last frame is the girl, and she's like, dear diary, like, cute guy on train still won't talk to me or something. 3:54 And it's, like, this kind of tragedy of isolation. 3:57 So it's kind of like, you know, do you want the sexist to trust each other or not? 4:02 But I guess that ship has sailed. 4:06 Oh, by the way, this just came to me right now. 4:08 If the people on the Twitter would have believed in efficient markets and they see, like, there's this $20 bill in the middle of Madison Square Garden and no one is touching her, right? 4:18 Yeah, exactly. 4:19 It's got to be real. 4:20 This is too good to be true. 4:21 Oh, my god. 4:22 Yeah, I agree. 4:23 But that's the joke. 4:24 Efficient markets would have saved it. 4:25 No, but that's the joke is those guys who took the bait, they didn't believe in efficient markets. 4:32 If they did, they would have said, this is too good to be true. 4:36 This is a trick to be tricked. 4:38 Now, you know, again, I probably is going to feel like we're talking shit about his girl, which I really don't want us. 4:43 I don't want it to feel like that. 4:44 But I have no idea this person. 4:45 I have no idea if she really even is a girl, you know, because sometimes people just put fake photos. 4:51 One second. 4:52 One second. 4:53 She's being honest to follow her. 4:54 Right now. 4:55 Here's the thing right now. 4:56 I'm listening. 4:57 I haven't seen it. 4:58 Well, anyway, I'm listening to Stefano Rivera because I don't know. 5:01 I see that there's this girl and whatever. 5:02 And I don't want to listen there. 5:03 And I turn on the Stefano Rivera. 5:05 The intro comes in. 5:06 And then she comes with her voice. 5:07 And she says, like, oh, I'm so lucky that I turn it off. 5:11 Like, you know what? 5:12 I was weird. 5:13 I was like, why would I want to listen to someone who's telling me they're lucky? 5:16 The only lucky people I want to listen to is the miners where they produce the hash. 5:20 Other than that, they should never listen to a person that considers themselves lucky. 5:24 You know what I'm trying to say? 5:25 But it's just supposed to be humility. 5:28 Yeah. 5:29 But you see, I don't believe it's like that doesn't make any sense to be here. 5:33 I don't know. 5:34 Really? 5:35 Yeah. 5:36 I think anyone who's successful, I think, knows that it takes a lot of hard work, natural 5:41 talent. 5:42 So like a good match between you and the problem. 5:46 And then a lot of luck. 5:48 I disagree. 5:49 Those are the three ingredients that are needed for greatness. 5:53 You know what? 5:54 I think there is some portion of luck that plays out and some people have it better and 5:58 whatever. 5:59 But if you do something every day and you do it a lot, you're going to be meaning it. 6:02 Of course, it helps not to get run by a car. 6:04 Don't get me wrong. 6:05 Right. 6:06 Or to get your hands chopped off. 6:07 Yeah. 6:08 There's a lot of things. 6:09 Anything can happen. 6:10 You can have all kinds of misfortune. 6:11 But then there's also a look at other people who are trying to make it in Hollywood or 6:14 whatever. 6:15 Yeah. 6:16 But many of them are probably great actors. 6:18 We don't know. 6:19 But many of them are probably great, but they just don't have that break. 6:22 You know? 6:23 I don't believe in that. 6:24 I think that, you know, if you want to, it's the same with Michael Jordan. 6:28 It's like, well, why did Michael Jordan win the NBA? 6:30 There are other people who play good. 6:31 Well, there was this other thing you have to be better at. 6:33 And somehow other people found that also. 6:35 I don't know. 6:36 I mean, there's. 6:37 I don't know. 6:38 How do you know that there aren't like 5,000 other Michael Jordan talented people? 6:41 I'm sure there are. 6:42 But that's not the point. 6:43 There's this book I read. 6:44 What is the point? 6:45 Did you ever read this book called Grit? 6:46 No. 6:47 Well, anyway, in this book, there's this woman called Angela Duckworth. 6:51 She analyzes a lot of like top performing people. 6:53 And she tries to see like how much luck plays into things and da-da-da-da and whatever. 6:58 And anyway, she does it in a very scientific way. 7:01 It's a real nice book. 7:02 Well, how could she do that by only looking at the successful people? 7:04 Anyway, the point that she's trying to make is that. 7:07 Doesn't she know about like a randomized double-blind controlled study? 7:11 That's like Science 101. 7:13 I am. 7:14 Don't bash the book. 7:15 Listen, don't bash the book because I'm dumb and I can't explain it. 7:17 The point is that she makes a really good case in this book, right? 7:19 And I'm not even able to articulate that properly. 7:21 I'm going to pour myself some water. 7:23 Yeah, on why luck doesn't play out that much, right? 7:26 And I tend to agree with that. 7:28 I think it's just – I don't know. 7:29 I don't like lucky people. 7:30 If you say you're lucky, then I don't think it's interesting. 7:32 You rolled a dice. 7:33 So can anyone else. 7:34 So why would I want to hear how you rolled a dice? 7:37 Because luck is not the only factor. 7:40 I know that very well. 7:42 But when you say, oh, I was just very lucky, I'm like I don't want to listen to you, dude. 7:46 I don't care about that. 7:47 Tell me how you did something like incredible and I'll listen to that. 7:50 It's considered polite to lie and downplay everything and say that. 7:54 Well, listen here, cocksucker. 7:56 I don't fucking like to listen to people who lie, who do this in fake politeness. 8:00 That's fucking bullshit. 8:01 I don't have time for that. 8:02 I don't want that. 8:03 And if you're willing to lie to be polite and whatever, then go and do that. 8:06 But I'm not going to listen. 8:07 That's why I turned off the fucking podcast. 8:09 That doesn't mean she's a mean person. 8:11 That doesn't mean that's fine. 8:12 But look, I don't have time for that, man. 8:13 This is fucking Bitcoin. 8:15 I don't have time for that. 8:17 Anyway. 8:18 Got it. 8:19 Okay. 8:20 Well, there you go. 8:21 Anyway. 8:22 Yeah, it's polite. 8:23 I find it so weird. 8:24 I got triggered by the fact that you find it that you think it's okay to lie just because 8:28 it's polite. 8:29 It's such a dumb thing. 8:30 Everyone is lying all the time about almost every single thing that they say and do. 8:34 And a lot of it is sometimes like it's people don't want people want there to be a pretext. 8:44 So they say they're going. 8:47 They get invited to a party. 8:50 The party has entertainment, has something we're going to watch. 8:53 Come over to my house and watch a movie. 8:58 People like to pretend that it's about the movie. 9:00 Really, they go over just because they're lonely and it's better to hang out with friends. 9:03 But you can't. 9:04 No one can admit that out loud. 9:05 So they have to say, oh, let's come over to my house and play Risk or something. 9:09 You know what? 9:10 Look, I think you're right. 9:11 And of course, I could think of instances in my day when I did that thing. 9:15 It allows people. 9:16 It's a kind of it's a kind of allow. 9:18 It's like it's like encryption. 9:20 It lets people hide. 9:22 It lets everyone mutually hide some of the things that they would rather not reveal. 9:29 So as to make the group more effective. 9:32 And you know what the name is for that? 9:34 It's called insecurities. 9:35 And everyone has them. 9:36 Right. 9:37 And as far as I'm concerned. 9:39 And again, I'm not trying to say like, oh, my God. 9:41 I know. 9:42 But what should people do if they have them? 9:43 They have to react to them. 9:45 I don't know. 9:46 Look, I don't have a prescription for that. 9:48 All I'm trying to say is that I'm trying to lobby my point that that's not something to aspire to. 9:53 What I want to aspire to is the guy who's who finds these things, sees them, escapes them and says that out loud. 9:59 That's the person to admire and to look up to. 10:01 Not the person who plays the whole social is the same as like. 10:04 I don't know about that. 10:06 I mean, don't you think sometimes discretion is the better part of valor? 10:09 Sometimes people don't want a loose cannon. 10:13 They say that guy that guy doesn't even that guy is some clueless autism person. 10:19 They don't know any of the social rules, so they won't they won't get far at all. 10:23 I have to betray that person or abandon that person because they don't know how the game is played. 10:29 So they're a loser. 10:31 I mean, I'm sure that that happens. 10:33 I mean, that definitely happens to me a lot. 10:35 I can assure you that I think that happens. 10:37 But at the end of the day, I. 10:40 But if you do find people who don't play that rule and you play this whole. 10:44 So pretty much the way that people play to have this weird frictions that gets in the way of like things getting together because they need to show their insecurities. 10:51 But if you find people who see this and step out of this thing and they do it directly, then you're going to have a very good interaction then. 10:57 And whatever, even if there's just five people on the planet, if you find those five people and you talk with them, your interactions are going to be so much more pleasurable and so much work better. 11:06 And that's also what Steve Jobs to call people, a players and B players. 11:09 You know, that's the difference. 11:10 At the end of the day, there's some people are that and some people are the other way. 11:13 No, but I don't think anyone is like that. 11:15 Everyone lies constantly to themselves and to everyone else about everything they say. 11:20 So I don't even think you can find those five people. 11:23 I'm not saying like five, five, five to five people who never lie. 11:26 I'm trying to say five to five. 11:28 Find the five people who don't lie about things. 11:30 You also don't lie. 11:31 Like maybe I will never lie about guitars or maybe I lied the least about guitars. 11:36 And there are other people who like least about guitars. 11:38 Well, then that's what people want to start a band with. 11:40 You follow me? 11:41 Of course, we're going to lie about other things. 11:43 So that's kind of how I feel about it. 11:45 And this whole like, let's be polite just to be polite thing. 11:49 I don't know. 11:50 But it's like, what about the so-called white lie? 11:55 Where it's like someone asks you, how do I look before they go out on stage or something? 12:02 Yeah. 12:03 And they're not really even, what they're asking you is an incredibly complicated thing. 12:08 That has a lot of layers. 12:11 And it's like, and they just want to hear that they don't look terrible. 12:17 And they only have time to hear like four or five words because they're about to go on stage or something. 12:21 And so there's no possible way that you can compress everything that you know and believe into like a few words. 12:27 So you just say, you look great. 12:29 And then you throw them on stage. 12:31 Yeah. 12:32 Because what else are you going to say? 12:34 But that's the so-called white lie. 12:35 But what I'm saying is that is no more or less honest than basically any other thing that has ever been said. 12:43 Again, just depends. 12:46 If you lie to me about like, I don't know. 12:50 There's certain things I don't care that people lie about. 12:52 Like let's say you're with a girl and she doesn't say she's going to the toilet because girls don't want to say that. 12:58 Or they take a shit and they say like, I'm going to powder my nose. 13:00 Like, yeah, that's something I don't care about. 13:02 But there's some things which I really care about. 13:05 And again, that's fine. 13:06 Because people don't, the details aren't important. 13:08 So compressing them and just saying I'm going to go powder my nose, that is a reasonable thing to do. 13:13 And I'm fine with that. 13:14 But there's some certain things, right, which I really do not – I try really hard myself to not lie about. 13:19 And those things I care about. 13:21 And one thing that I care about is like, oh, I'm so lucky. 13:24 That's one thing that I don't care about. 13:25 Like I don't want you to tell me. 13:27 How do you know maybe she was really lucky? 13:28 How do you know that that was a lie? 13:29 Well, I don't know if it was a lie. 13:31 But if she really was really lucky, then here's the thing. 13:33 Then you care even less. 13:34 If she was really lucky and she just rolled a dice, then okay. 13:37 Why is she on the show? 13:38 No, no. 13:39 She could be on the show. 13:40 I'm not going to listen to it. 13:41 Why would she go on the show? 13:42 If it were really the case that it was purely luck, then she would just not – she would say, thank you for inviting me on the show about it. 13:48 I had nothing to do with it. 13:49 It was all just luck. 13:50 Yeah, but that's not my problem because – 13:52 Like a freight train and transformed it. 13:54 But that's not my problem. 13:55 It's like people could make shows about lucky people. 13:58 I'm sure there's shows about lottery winners. 13:59 That's perfectly fine, right? 14:01 My critic is – I'm trying to say I'm not going to listen to that. 14:04 So there's two ways. 14:05 You either are lucky, which is not interesting to me, or you're not lucky but you think you're lucky because you want to play this weird game, which I don't want to listen. 14:11 So that's why I'm going to turn off the podcast. 14:13 That's just how I go about things. 14:15 I don't think people should go like this. 14:16 I don't think your life is going to become better if you go about it like this. 14:19 But that was the thing that when I heard, and this is the only context I had of her, and I was like, oh, okay. 14:24 She thinks she's lucky. 14:25 All right. 14:26 Well, great. 14:27 I mean, I don't know, Paul. 14:29 Say a number right now. 14:30 Say the first number that comes to your head. 14:32 367. 14:33 Oh, my god. 14:34 You're so lucky. 14:35 It's like, what? 14:36 That doesn't make any sense. 14:37 It's like – 14:38 Why? 14:39 What did you want the number for? 14:41 Just to prove that I could have interpreted some randomness in any way, but there's nothing interesting about that, right? 14:46 Is there? 14:47 You can interpret anything. 14:48 It doesn't have to be random. 14:49 You can interpret it. 14:50 If you interpret it in any way other than randomness, you'd be wrong, but anything could be interpreted in any way. 14:56 I like how you make everything super relativistic and super philosophical sometimes. 15:02 I really like that. 15:04 Okay. 15:05 Great. 15:06 Anyway, I don't have – by the way. 15:09 I don't have anything wrong with that girl and whatever, but that's just how I felt when I read that story. 15:14 That's just me. 15:15 I want to make that clear because clearly a lot of people – like this is how people are going to start hating us. 15:20 We're going to be the guys who hate it on the cute girl who contributes to Core and all this. 15:25 People already hate me. 15:26 I don't know about you. 15:28 You know what, man? 15:29 I'm very hated. 15:30 I'll be honest with you. 15:31 I think that's true, and I don't think that's – 15:36 I think the reason people hate is because – 15:40 You're so much better than them. 15:43 That's a joke. 15:44 I think there is some truth to that. 15:46 I don't think that's 100% true, but I think there is a bit of truth to that. 15:49 I'll be honest. 15:50 And it is because – 15:52 Now you're just trying to butter me up. 15:55 I don't think you're better than other people, but I think the way you present your arguments in a way – 16:00 See, this is the thing right now. 16:01 You talk the truth about Lightning Network, and I don't think you said anything outrageous, 16:05 but I think when you put that in the wrong context and you don't polish it, 16:08 people think that you're actually saying Lightning Network is bad in all contexts, 16:12 which is not what you said. 16:13 You just wanted to analyze it more precisely. 16:16 I said the failure of the Lightning Network, and that's a consequence of Twitter limiting the size where – 16:23 I know. 16:24 It would be better to expand that into a big paragraph about how it would be very successful for some things 16:29 but not the thing that most people obsessively ascribe to it. 16:34 Yeah, I know, Paul. 16:35 I know, but the thing is like in some way you are better than the other people 16:38 because you didn't compress this information. 16:40 You understood it. 16:41 And you just said it like you said the correct thing, and that's why I think people hate you. 16:47 Yeah, Lightning will not be the big layer two that scales Bitcoin. 16:51 That is what I mean by – 16:53 Yeah, and I don't know. 16:54 I mean I don't know if it's – 16:55 I think it is going to scale to some degree and there's going to be some form of things getting there, 17:00 but I don't think that's the one or that's the only one. 17:03 Yeah. 17:04 Yeah, and is that really what Samuel Rodriguez, you're saying? 17:07 Like really it's just one layer? 17:09 No. 17:10 Is it funny? 17:11 Well, that's – 17:12 Well, the culture is just Bitcoin equals Lightning Network equals layer two, 17:16 just like they're just like totally overlapping now. 17:20 Yeah, they are. 17:21 They are. 17:22 But the other thing is Bitcoin culture in general has become static. 17:26 It's weak is the word you're looking for. 17:28 It is. 17:29 Yeah. 17:30 Well, it is – 17:31 Yeah, it's sad when it can't improve. 17:33 When anything they can't improve will eventually die, 17:35 and this culture has been stuck for at least a few years. 17:41 I mean what new cultural ideas are there in BTC? 17:46 I'll tell you which one they are, and that's why I call them weak. 17:49 It's the eating meat – 17:50 By the way, I – 17:51 I know. 17:52 All the new ones are like themselves degenerate static cult ideas that will themselves become – 17:58 That being said, I told you I'm kind of a carnivore. 18:01 I only eat like once a week vegetables or stuff like that, and that was like – 18:05 So I do subscribe to it, but the problem is the way it's portrayed 18:08 and the way it's associated with Bitcoin. 18:10 That's the issue here, right? 18:11 Yeah. 18:12 It's the idea that if you're a true Bitcoiner, you would only eat meat, 18:15 and you would only eat raw meat and like whatever. 18:18 It just becomes kind of crazy. 18:20 Can you have barbecue sauce? 18:22 Can you have barbecue sauce if you're on the carnivore diet? 18:25 I mean I don't know. 18:27 It depends how you go about it because there's multiple – 18:29 Because that's not carnivore. 18:30 That's like full of sugar and made-up corn syrup. 18:33 Yeah, I don't know. 18:34 It depends how you want to go about it. 18:35 But by the way, you just explained what's happening when we started talking, right? 18:40 It's just people want to get along with everyone else, man. 18:44 That's just what it is. 18:45 Yeah, right. 18:46 Exactly. 18:47 They don't actually believe in the Lightning Network. 18:49 They just want everyone to have fun, and I'm like raining on the parade if I say that. 18:54 Yeah, and you know why? 18:55 Yeah, but that's why I don't say it that often. 18:57 I just say it every now and then. 18:58 The reason I brought it up was to react to that one guy. 19:02 It's funny because it's weird because you can recast everything I do 19:05 as me being the greatest Bitcoin maximalist like on Twitter, 19:09 but almost no one sees it that way because the only reason I brought it up at all 19:13 was because the BSV guy was saying that BTC sucks because Lightning sucks, 19:18 and I was saying actually BTC is awesome and will transcend failure of the Lightning Network. 19:28 That's a great BTC, and it will crush BSV. 19:31 But see what I mean? 19:32 I kind of bring it on myself because I could say it a different way. 19:35 I could say like if you just put it in a different order, you say BSV sucks first, 19:39 and then you say at the end, even if Lightning Network doesn't work, it won't matter, 19:44 and you get a totally different reaction. 19:46 So I'm actually playing with people when I invert it on purpose, 19:49 but at first I say the first sentences are the failure of the Lightning Network will not harm BTC. 19:56 So I'm doing it on purpose for those of you who are interested. 20:01 It's like what Chris and Josh used to do on Bitcoin Uncensored. 20:04 It's like I'm playing with people on purpose. 20:06 No, but you're playing with people, but a joke ends up being on you. 20:09 That's the fucking problem. 20:10 Is it really on me though? 20:11 Why is it on me? 20:12 I'm doing it on purpose. 20:14 You know why the joke is on you? 20:16 Because people just have this false image of what you're working on and what your work is, 20:23 and you may not want to admit that, and God damn, we talked about it for a bit. 20:27 But I think that's detrimental, and I don't know. 20:31 Maybe you think it's not, but I think it is. 20:34 But anyway, yeah, I don't know. 20:37 Maybe, I don't know. 20:39 Well, I mean, I definitely do know. 20:40 It's true that – well, yeah, I mean a lot of people don't understand what I'm working on, 20:44 but that's always been the case. 20:46 So I don't know if I can cast some kind of magic spell to fix that. 20:50 Yeah, the magic spell is called getting better at communicating. 20:53 It's not a magic thing. 20:55 These people, as I've already explained, they wouldn't be real supporters. 21:02 Just like they're not real supporters of the Lightning Network. 21:04 They're fake supporters. 21:05 Yeah, but the thing is like – 21:07 They're fake. They're phonies. 21:08 These are phony people. 21:10 I don't want them anywhere near me or my project. 21:13 See – 21:22 That's the problem, dude. 21:24 You just did it again. 21:25 See, that's the problem. 21:27 Saying shit like that is the problem. 21:30 That's what I'm trying to tell you, man. 21:31 Okay. 21:32 That's the problem. 21:34 Why would you – what the fuck are you – that's such a stupid – you don't even think that's true. 21:38 That's so stupid. 21:39 Come on, let's be serious. 21:40 Look, if you get 10,000 people, you're going to have five real people who understand what you're doing. 21:47 Five real. You're right. 21:48 No, you're right. 21:49 That is the difference is that you get some real people with the giant wave. 21:53 You're right about that. 21:54 I don't think you really don't want people around your project. 21:58 Come on. 21:59 You know that's not true. 22:01 Well, I think some people cause more problems than they solve. 22:04 That's definitely true. 22:06 Can you admit that there is a bit of frustration on your side for people not really understanding what you're doing? 22:12 Well, that's true, but I don't think that has anything to do with this. 22:14 Well, one second. 22:15 Do you admit that's true? 22:17 Are you a bit frustrated? 22:19 Yes, that's true, yeah. 22:21 And I think you have every right to be so, right? 22:24 And then the thing is like when you look around in the Lightning Network, like you are doing what the people think the Lightning Network is kind of doing, right? 22:31 So, I get it. 22:33 I get it, man. 22:34 I totally get it. 22:35 And it is frustrating. 22:36 But the thing is that you have to find a meme. 22:40 That's just how it is. 22:41 That's why the Lightning Network works. 22:43 Find a meme, yeah. 22:44 Meme. 22:45 And the way they found a meme, well, I don't know if the meme was found or whatever happened. 22:51 It turned into this crazy meme. 22:53 The meme before this that was so powerful was the SegWit one, which was, again, SegWit and everything else was HAL, right? 23:00 You know when people used to go like, oh, that's not a SegWit address. 23:03 Oh, what are you doing? 23:04 You're killing Bitcoin, right? 23:05 You're using addresses that somewhere were one. 23:07 You're such a fucking piece of shit. 23:08 And then the next one was just this Lightning thing, which was like, you're not using Lightning. 23:12 You're blah, blah, blah, and whatever. 23:14 And I don't know if the meme evolved by itself. 23:17 They usually do. 23:18 Or someone created it. 23:20 I don't think so. 23:21 But, yeah, it helps to have a meme. 23:23 You know what? 23:24 Here's the funny thing. 23:25 Definitely. 23:26 This is exactly what you were saying about the powdering of the noise. 23:32 Sometimes it works to just be able to say. 23:35 Exactly. 23:36 You're right. 23:37 It is what I was saying. 23:38 I should tell more. 23:39 I should be more diplomatic and tell the white lies. 23:41 But that's. 23:42 There you go. 23:43 You're assuming that, as I've said, I have a complicated purpose. 23:46 And I don't necessarily. 23:47 I know, man. 23:48 I know. 23:49 Sometimes it's fun for me to play with these people and let them think that I'm a Bitcoin, a BTC skeptic or whatever. 23:54 I don't even know what people think when they look from BSV and they get drawn into this. 23:58 People have said to me, like, Paul is a shit corner. 24:01 Yeah. 24:02 So I don't like. 24:03 I only own BTC. 24:04 I have like $50 of stuff to play with. 24:06 Why are you apologizing, though, even if you would have other things? 24:09 Why are you apologizing? 24:10 I have more than that in shit. 24:11 No, but I'm more. 24:12 I'm much more of a Bitcoin maximalist than I think possibly anyone, to be honest. 24:18 I don't know if you're more than me, but anyway, even though I said I have. 24:21 Because it's like the obsession with sidechains. 24:25 The trying to get the blocks size lowered on the main chain so that you can have a large block sidechain. 24:35 It's like all the stuff that I do is like way more productive as far as Bitcoin maximalism is concerned. 24:43 And then like whatever these other losers do on Twitter. 24:47 I mean, you have to understand that's like they're LARPing on Twitter and trying to have a complex scientific people. 24:54 And you have to understand that at its heart. 24:56 Look, it was hard for me to follow. 24:58 Those papers, do you understand that it's just hard for anyone, even if you're more smart than me, it's like still hard because it's a lot. So again, just tell them you're powdering the nose or just tell them you look nice when you go on stage. And that's pretty much it, but I normally do, though. I mean, I don't really. Do you want me to pull up a tweet right now? Do you want me to? I don't really know, but I think it's been Lightning Network. It's been like five or six years. And so mostly I have not. That's not true. Mostly I have been very polite. 25:26 About all kinds of things. It's only like once in a while. 25:35 I'm trying to find the tweet. I'm sorry. 25:37 And I don't and I now I'm getting much better at not going on Twitter that often. I mean, Twitter totally sucks now. It's like. 25:44 Dude, look, listen, you should go on Twitter. Just I don't know. I don't know. I don't fucking know. I have no clue. 25:50 Twitter is like, you know, Twitter is like the opposite of meditation because. 25:55 Oh, yes, that's so true. That is. 25:57 I never want to meditate, but every time I do, I'm like, that was the best time of my life. 26:03 So I can I have all this tricep. I think normal people have about like going to the gym or whatever. 26:07 It's like I'm in a bad habit where I can't meditate, even though I know it's great. 26:11 And so I have to like really like schedule time and set everything up so that I can just do it for like 20 minutes or let alone like 30 minutes or an hour. 26:20 Do you want to do you want to do it before we start a show from now on? 26:24 Probably should. That would be a good idea. 26:25 I used to have a buddy of mine. We used to we used to come here to play guitar and do some Bitcoin stuff. 26:30 That would actually be a good idea. And that would actually be great. 26:32 Listen, we would come here and he would knock at the door and we wouldn't say anything. We weren't allowed to talk with Jerry. 26:37 He takes off his shoes. He'd go there and we both meditated for 10 minutes. It was so nice. 26:42 And it really cleared all our minds. 26:44 Yeah, that's good. I like that idea. 26:47 Yeah, I would like to do it when I do it for an hour. I'm like, that was the greatest hour of my life. 26:51 You know, it was like, but then with Twitter, it's the exact opposite. 26:54 It's always like if you're like in an elevator or something, you can just take out my phone and check Twitter. 26:59 It's so easy to get into Twitter. So it's reaching its little fingers into your brain. 27:06 And then whenever you use Twitter, you're like, I feel terrible. I can't really use Twitter today. 27:10 I know. I feel exactly the same way. 27:12 Smash my phone with a hammer and destroy it. 27:16 Anyway, I feel the same way. But you know what? The thing is that I think that that's one way to approach Bitcoin and go about things. 27:23 And there's other ways. And there are some people who would subscribe to this other ways, more how we see things. 27:29 But there's no one talking. There's no place to subscribe to them. 27:32 So, you know, this is the opportunity to make Bitcoin great again. It's upon us. That's our responsibility. 27:38 Okay. Yeah. Good luck with that to us because I don't know if we're going to be able to make that happen. 27:43 Why not? 27:45 Well, I mean. 27:50 Well, okay. So. 27:54 You're a Romanian guy, yes? 27:56 Yes. 27:57 And this is not well known that Romanians are actually terrible at Bitcoin podcasting. 28:03 Dude. 28:04 I don't know if you know that. 28:05 I share the same blood with Mircea Popescu. 28:07 I just thought of that joke. That was the joke I thought of. 28:11 I share the same blood with Mircea Popescu. 28:14 Oh my God. 28:15 What are you going to tell me? 28:16 Do you know if that guy is actually, is that guy really from, I mean, I guess he writes in Romanian, so I guess he must be real. 28:22 Look, I know some people who said they met him. I don't know. 28:26 And I don't know. 28:27 I don't believe him. 28:28 I think he's probably killed everyone that he's met that knows who he is. 28:33 Probably all the end. 28:34 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, I have the same blood. 28:39 But you know what I really liked about that guy, man? 28:42 But he didn't do a podcast. He did a crazy blog. 28:45 And his blog is just fascinating. 28:47 It's completely psychotic, but it's fascinating. 28:52 He talks about the most weirdest and random thing, but he doesn't. 28:55 First of all, artistic style, 10 out of 10. 28:58 Scientific style, 10 out of 10. 28:59 Everything is just 10 out of 10. 29:01 That guy is like, how the fuck can a person write so well? 29:04 It's like he has a hundred people writing that thing, right? 29:07 It's crazy. 29:08 That's what you can find on the internet. 29:11 Some crazy people. 29:12 Yeah. 29:13 Well, you see, we have to take that back because he was very much, you know, 29:16 he was very on top of things. 29:19 And he, by the way, he was, he's the ultimate Bitcoin maximalist. 29:23 If you come to think about it. 29:24 That's true. He is. Yeah. 29:25 Because do you remember when he put the, 29:27 I don't remember when he put the 1BTC bounty on Peter Molyneux's head. 29:32 Yes. But you know, that was a joke. 29:34 That was not actually. 29:36 I don't know. A lot of people know that. 29:38 Because the joke was about a verifiable signature or something. 29:41 And the point was because of SegWit, the signature wouldn't be there. 29:45 So he's like, 29:46 you need to give me a transaction with a verifiable signature of 29:48 certifying the death of one Peter Weill or whatever. 29:53 So obviously it was made. 29:55 He dressed it up to look exactly like a death, a real death threat. 30:00 With 1BTC. And that was like back in, when was that? 30:04 That was like never. That was like 2014, 2015. 30:07 No, no. It was, it was a bit later. It was because it was a. 30:10 I know, but that was the point I'm trying to make is that was like when 30:12 Bitcoin was like $400 something. 30:15 Like kill. 30:17 By the way. 30:18 Kill someone for one Bitcoin. 30:21 I have a question right now. 30:23 So the reason you can't provide a valid signature with a address that 30:28 the SegWit address, 30:29 is that because there's no agreement on like this, the, the, the, 30:32 the not signature scheme, what's it called? 30:34 It's just because people didn't agree on how to do that. 30:36 Or just because it's technically impossible. 30:38 Basically. No, it's basically, he just, he set up, 30:41 he wrote his little thing very carefully. 30:44 And I don't remember the details, but he wrote it so that. 30:48 It was a joke. It was like a SegWit joke. 30:51 And you, if you read it as a SegWit joke, you can like decode it. 30:56 And you can see how the signature wouldn't be there in the, 31:00 because the way SegWit works, there's like two versions of the block. 31:04 And in one version, there are no signatures for, 31:07 that's the version that old nodes are sent. 31:09 And there's no signature there. 31:11 There are all anyone can spend. So, so that was like, 31:14 it was like a complex joke. 31:16 Right. Right. Now I, I, I used to, you know, 31:20 people in the old days used to like sign a message with an address just 31:23 to prove something. Right. And they have, they control the address. Yeah. 31:26 Yeah. So the only wallet right now that does this is actually Electrum. 31:30 But if you want to be able to make sure to verify this, you have to do this. 31:34 You have to verify the signature also with Electrum because they have their 31:36 own scheme. Right. 31:38 They do have their own scheme, but you can, there are places online, 31:40 such as the brain wallet, 31:42 JavaScript site that can decode and encode it in the Electrum format. 31:47 Right. Okay. Well, anyway, I know that was an issue at some point because I, 31:52 I was using say what addresses and like, and Bitcoin core has it as well, 31:55 but is it the same one? I know it's different. Yeah. Well, 31:59 that's all different schemes. Yeah. Right. 32:01 That's the problem right now because it's like, Oh, I just, 32:03 I know you're going to be like, Oh, well it's not right. So yeah, 32:07 that's a good point. That is, it is silly. 32:09 There should be a better way of doing that. 32:11 But I think the brain wallet JavaScript site has like three or four ways. 32:19 It has them all there. 32:21 I just die every time you reference that website, 32:23 like brain wallets are defunct like from, from, from, from a lot of time. 32:27 No, 32:28 but this is a misconception that people have about the brain wallet, 32:31 which is, yeah, 32:32 because this is a big thing and they have the big security warning up there 32:35 and the guy like deleted the GitHub repo out of shame for having shame. 32:39 But the, first of all, 32:41 the site has much more than the brain wallet generator. 32:45 It's actually a really great site. 32:46 It has a cool converter. It has all these tools on there. 32:49 It's a great site and I highly recommend it. 32:51 The other thing though, 32:52 is that the flaw of the brain wallet is just that you, 32:57 you can use any seed phrase that you want, 33:00 but as long as you use a seed phrase, 33:03 that is 12 words selected from that 2048 word list, 33:07 it will be fine. 33:09 It's been a hundred percent fine and it's a great way of learning Bitcoin and 33:13 how addresses and whatever work. 33:15 It's a perfectly wonderful, 33:17 perfectly wonderful website and I highly recommend it. 33:19 Here's the problem with the brain wallets right now, 33:21 right? And there's this guy called, 33:23 you shouldn't send any money to anything that you create with a wallet that 33:28 you created yourself, 33:29 unless you know what you're doing under any circumstances, 33:31 brain wallet or, or otherwise. 33:34 So before you send any Bitcoin to any addresses that you had a part in 33:38 creating, 33:39 you should do all of your research to make sure that you know what you're 33:42 doing. That has nothing to do with brain wallet. 33:45 One second right now, 33:46 one second because there is a problem with the brain wallets right now, 33:48 right? So the thing is that if you create a brain wallet, 33:51 which is something that you can remember, 33:53 right? Then the thing, 33:55 there's this guy called Ryan something, 33:57 I don't remember his name. 33:58 He had like a few, 33:59 he has a few talks on YouTube, 34:00 like free. 34:01 And he starts looking at possible combinations of brain wallets, 34:04 right? And he starts looking from, 34:06 he has this example of a woodchuck or woodchuck wood and something like 34:10 this, right? And then he tries to see if there's any Bitcoin there and he 34:13 finds Bitcoin there. 34:14 And then he goes even so further. 34:16 I don't know if you saw this and he goes even further. 34:18 And you know, 34:20 and then if he has another talk a few years afterwards and it's him and 34:23 this other Italian dude, 34:24 and they try to put bounties and it's pretty obvious that there are people 34:27 who mind, 34:28 who mind the, 34:29 all the space of whatever wallets, 34:31 right? 34:32 To see if there's money. 34:33 And there's this guy on Reddit in 2013. 34:35 I'm very familiar with all this. 34:37 Okay. Well, 34:38 let me just say it for people who are listening. 34:39 There's this guy on Reddit on 2013, 34:41 I want to say, 34:42 and he had the, 34:43 this weird African poem as a brain wallet. 34:46 Right. 34:47 And even that people are using that. 34:49 So people are just using like texts from anywhere in the world and they're 34:52 trying to map the private key towards that and see if there's Bitcoin there. 34:55 So that's the issue with brain wallets. 34:57 That's why people got really like, 34:58 you know, 34:59 everything. 35:00 Yeah. 35:01 But the site is more than just that. 35:04 It's just something where you can type in your own entropy and get the 35:08 Bitcoin private key and address and all the stuff from it. 35:11 And you know, 35:12 there's tons of tools and stuff there. 35:14 So it's a great site. 35:15 And I fully agree with all that. 35:17 And I think it's also helpful for people to be able to just say, 35:20 Oh, 35:21 I can just type whatever I want in here and I get the public and private 35:24 key. 35:25 Now, 35:26 because of that, 35:27 a lot of people have logs, 35:28 those private keys and check to see if money is sent there. 35:31 So you shouldn't store any of your wealth in a wallet that you create, 35:37 unless you did all of your research and you know how. 35:39 So what you could do is you would that, 35:43 would you want to type in to that brain wallet generator? 35:47 This is assuming you trust the site and all that other stuff. 35:49 You trust your browser and you trust that your computer hasn't been key 35:52 logged. 35:53 There's a million things that can go wrong. 35:55 It's just why you shouldn't do this. 35:57 All of them have nothing to do with brain wallet, 35:59 including the fact that if you wanted to use, 36:01 if everything worked perfectly, 36:03 you want to make sure you type in whatever you type into the brain. 36:05 Wallet has enough entropy to have, 36:08 you know, 36:09 I mean, 36:10 ideally 256 bits, 36:12 but at least 128 bits of entropy, 36:14 I guess it depends on a little bit on if you use, 36:20 I don't know if this is going to get technical now, 36:23 but I think if you use, 36:24 if you want to put it into an HD wallet somehow, 36:26 then it will only have 128. 36:29 And the point is you want to make sure that you have a lot of entropy in 36:33 that thing. 36:34 So you need to like shuffle a big deck of cards, 36:37 type all the cards in or whatever. 36:38 You can't just type in some African poem that is available on Google. 36:42 Yeah. 36:43 The fact that that, 36:45 you know, 36:47 I don't know if to what extent the brain wallet site is misleading people 36:51 into thinking that that's a good idea. 36:53 I think is minimal. 36:55 Actually, 36:56 I think it should be clear that if you could type the African poem and 36:58 someone else can type in the African poem and you get the same private 37:02 key, 37:03 then it would be a bad idea to do that. 37:05 But I don't know if that's the site's fault or is it just people just don't 37:09 understand what they're doing in which case they'll probably lose their money 37:13 anyway. 37:14 But then the same argument could be said about the blue wallet, 37:17 which you based on earlier. 37:18 Anyway, 37:19 do you know this web called the graphical address generator? 37:22 Do you want to click on it? 37:23 No, 37:24 but it sounds fun. 37:25 I think I liked it so much. 37:27 Okay. 37:28 I really liked it. 37:29 I really liked it. 37:30 You know why I liked it? 37:31 Because you go on here and you type in the private key and it shows you all 37:34 the wonderful. 37:35 I'll show you all the operations you have to do from to get from the 37:39 entropy to the multiplical. 37:41 What's this called? 37:42 I like to cover multiplication, 37:44 the G time and, 37:45 and it's, 37:46 it like really shows you literally how you get from like randomness. 37:50 And this is wonderful. 37:51 Thank you for sharing this. 37:52 I think this is wonderful. 37:53 I think everyone should see this. 37:55 This is exactly what I've been looking for. 37:57 Something like this. 37:59 So this is why I like the brain wallet site, 38:01 which is actually sort of similar to this, 38:03 but Oh, 38:04 I've had, 38:05 I had a joke when we were talking about the girl, 38:08 I had a joke. 38:09 The joke was, 38:10 Oh my God, 38:11 I would G times and her a few times, 38:12 but isn't it G times. 38:15 Okay. 38:17 It is times. 38:18 Okay. 38:19 Yeah, 38:20 but yeah, 38:21 it is. 38:22 It is. 38:23 There you go. 38:24 God, 38:25 why did you, 38:26 why did you have to like, 38:28 this smart guy or whatever? 38:30 It's okay. 38:31 That it's, 38:32 and it's kids. 38:33 Who cares anyway? 38:34 I know I want to make this bigger so that I can see everything on the site. 38:37 I'm blotting you out so I can play with the site. 38:39 We're going to do it now. 38:41 I'm playing with it. 38:42 See type passphrase here. 38:44 Correct horse battery staple. 38:45 Now I'm going to get killed on the internet. 38:47 This is great. 38:48 I love how it does it. 38:49 Every single keystroke. 38:50 Yeah. 38:51 It's a really nice website. 38:52 We're going to include in the show notes. 38:53 I like that. 38:54 So dude, 38:55 when I tried to understand how these things work, 38:56 I was just reading all these books and I was going on stack exchange or whatever. 38:59 And I, 39:00 I, 39:01 I find this fucking website and I'm like, 39:02 Oh my God, 39:03 like it just clicked. 39:04 Everything was so clear when you saw this, 39:05 you know, 39:06 this is, 39:07 it's funny you say, 39:08 because I want to, 39:09 I want there to, 39:10 I think that there should be stuff like this for every single thing that Bitcoin does in Bitcoin core. 39:14 And there should be like a little dropdown called like learn or something or study Bitcoin or whatever. 39:19 I think. 39:20 So actually, 39:21 really? 39:22 Oh my God. 39:23 I'm not sure. 39:24 I think when Bitcoin has like an online interpreter or like somewhere where it runs the functions, 39:28 like in a browser, 39:29 I think so, 39:30 but I, 39:31 I'm not sure. 39:32 That would be great. 39:33 I would have a lot of, 39:34 a lot more respect for. 39:35 Vasco. 39:36 Eric Vasco. 39:37 I was going to say, 39:38 because he's behind it, 39:39 right? 39:40 Yeah. 39:41 There's some other guys also work on it, 39:42 by the way. 39:43 But I think that's great because I think the essence of Bitcoin is the self sovereignty concept. 39:47 And so I'm not saying that everyone knows, 39:49 most people are not going to understand what's going on ever, 39:52 but the right person out there, 39:54 you should be able not just to explain what Bitcoin is doing, 39:58 but sort of to prove it really. 40:00 And you should be able to say, 40:02 look, 40:03 like one thing that bothers me is why isn't there easily? 40:07 I think, 40:08 you know, 40:09 if there should be like some stuff in the UX of a full node to like decode this stuff that's in base 58 check, 40:20 you know, 40:21 and just tell you what the heck is going on there. 40:23 And there should be stuff for like calculating hashes and stuff. 40:27 I think that's, 40:28 that would just be nice for people. 40:29 You just click a little button. 40:30 You can see, 40:31 here's the job to 56 hash of this. 40:33 I mean, 40:34 well, 40:35 I couldn't, 40:36 it's so difficult. 40:37 I couldn't remember in a few reasons why doors are not like, 40:38 first of all, 40:39 like they, 40:40 like you want to keep Bitcoin core, 40:41 core, 40:45 core. 40:46 That should be our name. 40:47 It's like a plant. 40:50 Anyway, 40:51 the point is, 40:52 I think they want to keep things minimal, 40:53 like in the reference implementation. 40:54 So they don't want to add any true, 40:55 but this is just like a frivolous UX thing. 40:58 That would be like a different folder. 40:59 Well, 41:00 come on one second right now. 41:01 Here's what you need to understand. 41:02 This is a complex product project, 41:03 right? 41:04 And any little thing you're going to add, 41:05 there's that just creates other commits and other things that people for review and they really need to minimize it. 41:10 That's why, 41:11 you know, 41:12 that's true. 41:13 So if you, 41:14 if you want to like, 41:15 if you want out of the goodness of your heart to put your time and make like the Bitcoin core educational version, 41:18 that would be great. 41:19 I, 41:20 because you know what? 41:21 Exactly. 41:22 That's the thing. 41:23 Um, 41:24 but the self sovereignty is key to the project. 41:25 People really know some random guy out there, 41:27 some random uneducated, 41:29 you know, 41:31 guy trying to, 41:33 in China who barely speaks English and is trying to figure out if he can use Bitcoin for capital flight out of Hong Kong when he flees as the communists take over or something. 41:44 They are like, 41:45 they have to like give some, 41:47 they should be able to demonstrate to them somehow that they, 41:49 um, 41:50 is that they are getting what they, 41:57 they're getting what they think they're getting, 42:00 especially if doing so to us is very cheap. 42:03 I mean, 42:04 building like a little hash calculator that, 42:06 come on, 42:07 that would not take us a lot of effort at all. 42:09 And that would save people a lot of trouble. 42:11 Let me tell you why I disagree with you. 42:13 I like, 42:14 so as you were talking about all these things, 42:16 there are some moments when I just go on a, 42:18 there are things I don't know about Bitcoin, 42:20 how to work. 42:21 And there are going to be a few weeks when I just dive in and I tried to learn those things. 42:23 Right. 42:24 I read Don Tanapo's books and I go on GitHub. 42:26 And you're right. 42:27 All these things that you're mentioning, 42:28 like I was the point where I was like, 42:29 I just want to have this thing and I don't want to search on it on this other website. 42:33 That's a GitHub page somewhere. 42:34 That's some guy made and this used for this and this used for that. 42:37 So I'm with you on that. 42:38 But the point is that the person in China doesn't, 42:41 if he needs to do the capital flight or the people in Venezuela, 42:45 as well, dude, 42:46 they're not going to go on GitHub. 42:47 You make them a shiny app, 42:49 a custodial app, 42:50 if you care. 42:51 I don't care about it. 42:52 They don't give a fuck. 42:53 No, no, no. 42:54 Because they, 42:55 it has to be someone who really wants self-sovereignty. 42:58 Yeah, Paul, 42:59 but here's the thing with self-sovereignty. 43:01 No, but I'm saying this is our core customer. 43:04 Yeah, but they want it. 43:06 The core customer is not someone who's just going to be indifferent between custodial because, 43:11 because Vladimir Putin killed all their friends and they're, 43:14 and it's coming for them and they're on the run. 43:17 Yeah, Paul, 43:18 but they're not going to make sure that they know what's up. 43:20 Right. 43:21 So you're telling me, 43:22 you're telling me I'm a fucking guy. 43:23 Vladimir Putin is counting after me. 43:25 I'm running, 43:26 Because I'm getting fucking killed. 43:27 And you're telling me, 43:28 I'm going to look at what I'm going to pull up Bitcoin currency, 43:30 like, 43:31 look like the shot. 43:32 And the two correctly. 43:34 No, the, 43:35 because it's about secrecy. 43:36 So you're, 43:37 you're living under the radar and you're, 43:39 you need to make your big getaway to escape Russia or whatever. 43:44 Oh, come on. 43:45 So you're planning it up. 43:46 What do you mean? 43:47 What do you mean? 43:48 What am I talking about? 43:49 This is very absurd. 43:50 No, I understand what you're saying. 43:51 I did just think is very absurd. 43:52 It's not, 43:53 you're not, 43:54 if you're not, 43:55 you're not, 43:56 this person is not pressed for time. 43:57 I'm just saying they are, 43:58 they're pressed for sort of secrecy and knowledge. 44:02 They can't be looking into Bitcoin. 44:04 They can't. 44:05 So imagine this. 44:06 This person's watching his browser. 44:07 So he can't be going around and saying, 44:10 oh, 44:11 how does shot you 56 works? 44:13 How does ECDSA work? 44:15 That's how you then straight to the gulag. 44:17 Here's the thing right now. 44:19 I think there's like very little people who need that. 44:21 Sorry. 44:22 Sorry. 44:23 I think that's, 44:24 that's, 44:25 that's false. 44:26 There's those, 44:27 that's our core customer. 44:28 And we don't know who they are. 44:29 That's no, 44:30 it's a game of secrets. 44:31 Dude, 44:32 you're missing what Bitcoin on sensor was doing. 44:34 The core customer was the person who, 44:36 for whatever reason, 44:37 right or wrong, 44:38 then they understood to use this and they used it. 44:39 Right. 44:40 It was irrelevant that they could understand or not how it really works. 44:43 They use that. 44:44 And it happened to be the right thing, 44:45 but they didn't do that for sure. 44:46 Right. 44:47 Well, 44:48 they knew from, 44:49 they assumed it would work from experience and they were right. 44:50 Yeah. 44:51 So, 44:52 so that was good enough. 44:53 Yeah. 44:54 I'm trying to say that most of the people are going to, 44:55 but I do think that, 44:56 you know, 44:57 I don't think it would cost very much for us to put something like this with the software. 45:02 So that, 45:03 I don't understand why don't you do it? 45:04 I don't understand why don't you do it? 45:05 Okay. 45:06 Well, 45:07 I'm working on it, 45:08 but I'm doing a lot of things. 45:09 I didn't know. 45:10 I didn't like for real. 45:11 Like, 45:12 is this, 45:13 yeah, 45:14 I like, 45:15 well, 45:16 this thing doesn't have the crucial thing is how to explain the generation of the public key from the private key, 45:19 which is like this horrible thing to have to explain because you have to explain about elliptic curves. 45:25 So, 45:26 see, 45:27 because it just says on their little site here that you sent me to says six multiply the private key by the elliptic curve generator point to get the public key. 45:33 Now, 45:34 like, 45:35 that's not good enough. 45:36 Most people will have no idea what that means. 45:38 Yeah, 45:39 elliptic curve multiplication is like completely different from. 45:43 Yeah, 45:44 yeah, 45:45 that's a very specific things like that's a very important three. 45:47 Yeah, 45:48 like, 45:49 you're pretty much doing this and doing the symmetry and doing that like that that is not. 45:52 Yeah, 45:53 and especially if you add a point to itself, 45:55 you need to calculate like a tangency point, 45:57 like you really need like you need at least like a college level calculus even understand what's. 46:02 And nevermind the fact that why actually you don't keep both the coordinates there because you don't need to, 46:07 you know, 46:08 I'm trying to say, 46:09 yes, 46:10 because it's symmetric. 46:11 Yeah, 46:12 like there's like so many like clever randomized. 46:13 Yes, 46:14 like, 46:15 look, 46:16 Paul, 46:17 it took me a week to fucking go through that thing and read those things and understand. 46:19 Yeah, 46:20 so, 46:21 so, 46:22 I mean, 46:23 eventually, 46:24 with the right, 46:25 we will be able to compress it we just we just need to be clever enough. 46:28 This compresses it pretty well. 46:30 It's just doesn't have anything about step six as they say because it's difficult. 46:35 I think they just wanted to show it up here. 46:37 Anyway, 46:38 I like this little gif though. 46:39 It's really nice because he's doing exactly the thing with the, 46:42 it's showing you how the dot is moving around chaotically. 46:45 So, 46:46 you're kind of like okay. 46:47 Oh, 46:48 come on, 46:49 don't be a fucking asshole because if you know if you know what's happening there. 46:51 It's actually, 46:52 that's actually what's happening. 46:53 But if you don't like it. 46:55 Yeah, 46:56 but if you don't know then you just think, 46:57 oh, 46:58 that's cool. 46:59 Yeah, 47:00 but the point of this wasn't. 47:01 Yeah. 47:02 Well, 47:03 anyway, 47:04 look, 47:05 I don't fucking know if you make I didn't know you actually even had interest in things 47:06 like this. 47:07 No, 47:08 I'm very interested in putting something in the full node software that explains. 47:12 I can't believe I'm so professional. 47:15 Sorry about that. 47:16 I didn't even hear it. 47:19 What is it? 47:20 Oh, 47:21 it was my dad actually to be honest with you. 47:23 Oh, 47:24 yeah, 47:25 I was gonna say, 47:26 answer it. 47:27 If it's the, 47:28 if it was the mom, 47:29 I would answer it and put them on the show. 47:30 But you wouldn't have been able to understand what it's the dad. 47:32 It's like, 47:33 forget it. 47:34 Now, 47:35 my, 47:38 that would be like, 47:39 Hey, 47:40 did you fuck any, 47:41 any girls or anything like that? 47:42 Yeah, 47:43 but he would say that. 47:44 Yeah. 47:45 Like once I go like that, 47:46 I got a new girlfriend. 47:47 Right. 47:48 He always has this weird, 47:49 like very like old men type questions. 47:51 That matters. 47:52 No, 47:53 because they think like I need to get married. 47:54 So if I'm going to get married, 47:55 I complained to him about having a lot of gold diggers. 47:57 Right. 47:58 Because I would end up a lot of time with a gold diggers. 48:00 And, 48:01 and that's why he's like, 48:02 you know, 48:03 it's like, 48:04 Oh, 48:05 let's have money right now. 48:06 Got it. 48:07 Yeah. 48:08 Okay. 48:09 Fair enough. 48:10 Anyway, 48:11 I'm interested in putting stuff. 48:12 I would like there to be, 48:13 I, 48:14 not so much a block explorer because that obviously to do all the indexing is 48:17 completely absurd, 48:18 but I would like it at least if people could like see the little headers and 48:22 some kind of GUI thing, 48:24 I would like it if people could really, 48:25 because the full node is going to have, 48:27 you have all the blocks and you have all every single transaction scanned 48:32 through at least. 48:33 And I just think we should, 48:35 we have an opportunity to teach people Bitcoin and it's, 48:39 it's only the people that we teach that will really be converted. 48:43 Like those would be the serious converts. 48:46 And those people won't go to something stupid like a theorem or whatever. 48:50 I mean, 48:51 not that I'm really worried about that, 48:52 but I'm just saying that I'm in general, 48:54 I'm in favor of knowledge and explanation and, 48:57 and, 48:58 and transparency and, 49:00 and proof and demonstration. 49:02 So I think that it's one thing to just say, 49:05 blah, 49:08 but it's another thing if you have, 49:09 come on, 49:10 can we get a shot to 56 calculator? 49:12 Can't, 49:13 can't we just get something where you type something in and you click a 49:16 You can't have that in Bitcoin core though. 49:18 You have to understand like, 49:19 like that, 49:20 that's not, 49:21 it doesn't make sense from an engineering point of view and from an, 49:24 whatever point of view, 49:25 do you have it in Bitcoin core? 49:26 That's what I'm trying to tell you here. 49:27 Well, 49:28 I think it would be a different GitHub repo, 49:29 but it would still be, 49:30 everything would be Bitcoin. 49:32 Yeah. 49:33 So it would be like lib consensus. 49:35 I've, 49:36 I don't know if they keep changing this around, 49:37 but it would be the exact same. 49:39 It would be Bitcoin. 49:40 It would be like Bitcoin D it would just be different. 49:42 Bitcoin QT. 49:43 You understand? 49:44 Does that make any sense? 49:45 The audience can understand what I'm talking about. 49:47 It's the same under the hood, 49:48 but just a different GUI. 49:50 Okay. 49:51 I have a question right now. 49:52 So Bitcoin D, 49:53 which is the demon, 49:54 which is pretty much the program that runs around and communicates with the 49:58 network, 50:00 right? This one is kind of like, it doesn't have any user interface on it, but when the project started out, this is my question. I'm leading it into it. So, so Bitcoin D was a separate thing, right? This demon thing, and then when the first project first started out, Satoshi made this windows GUI application using like, I don't even remember what it was. So it's funny that the GUI has actually been like an integral part of the experience since like, 50:27 day one. And only a bit later, did it, did it even come to, to Linux at all? And then later was it split into all this other stuff? 50:35 So tell me, what is the story of the Bitcoin D? Like how did he start? Because I know at some point... 50:39 I don't really remember. 50:40 I know now that I know pretty much they're kind of the same thing, but kind of not, right? 50:45 I don't know. I wasn't in Bitcoin. I didn't join Bitcoin until like 20, I mean, I was sort of reading about it in 20, late 2011, but I was very skeptical. 50:57 So it was until like 2012. So I actually had no idea, but I, you know, from historical research... 51:03 Didn't you like, didn't you like ever like go on forums and stuff like that? Because that's what I used to do. 51:07 Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I was on Bitcoin talk. 51:09 Okay. I was expecting you would notice just because, you know, you know, I was cool. 51:14 It's a good question. It was a good question. How did it work? When was it all separated into like Bitcoin QT, Bitcoin CLI, whatever? 51:24 Because I don't know why was QT chosen also? Like there are a lot of interesting questions. It's like a Nokia phone, GY. 51:33 But you know what's really interesting that back in the day you could be up to date with everything that was happening in Bitcoin. 51:39 Yeah, very easily. And I remember I used to be addicted to the site bitcoincharts, I think, .org. 51:47 Yes. I used that one so much also. 51:49 It was very minimalist. 51:50 It's still up. 51:51 Well, I think you could check the news because there was a news thing and that news, like that had all the news, 100%. 51:58 Yeah. 51:59 So if something ever posted anywhere, that's a great, we should put that in the show notes because that's a real throwback. 52:05 Let's see, was it .org or .com, Bitcoin Charts? 52:08 I just shared it with you here. It's still up, by the way. It's still up. 52:13 Oh, you know what? I also like for the first part of the first year is like this is all I would look at. 52:19 Yeah, yeah, of course. Because it was the only thing that had the price from the different exchanges. 52:24 That was what was crazy about it. It had Mt. Gox and everything. 52:27 There's the, not Bitcoinity. 52:28 Like Bitstamp. 52:29 Yeah, Bitcoinity. 52:30 It still has Bitstamp. 52:32 Do you remember Bitcoinity, by the way? This one, I don't know if this was- 52:35 I do, but I didn't like, I wasn't like addicted to it like Bitcoin Charts. 52:39 Bitcoinity has like a lot of historical data, if you're interested. 52:42 Anyway, yeah, Bitcoin, oh my God, I remember this, man. 52:45 Yeah, Bitcoin Charts, it was just like refresh, refresh, refresh. 52:49 And then you saw some news pop up. 52:52 That was the news of the week. 52:55 Yeah. 52:56 Yeah, those were the days. 52:58 Although, no, these are the days, man. 53:00 Like there's more stuff happening here. 53:02 But yeah, I get the nostalgia. I totally get it. 53:04 Yeah, I know. 53:05 Oh yeah, life is better now. 53:06 I was just saying that was sort of fun. 53:10 Yeah, I was so excited, man. 53:12 I just felt like, oh my God. 53:14 I was so excited, I couldn't believe it. 53:16 See, I wish I could get excited about- 53:18 And then you wanted to see it green. 53:20 Yeah. 53:21 You know, that was the big thing is you could see it green when the price went up. 53:24 And it was like green. 53:25 You're like, yes, green, that means good. 53:27 Are you checking the website right now when everything is green? 53:29 Of course. 53:30 Like literally everything. 53:31 Yeah, everything is green now. 53:32 Like 21%. 53:33 Like, are you kidding me? 53:36 Although, that used to happen all the time. 53:38 Remember, it would like go up at 20% and just like crash like 15%. 53:41 It would just like be going- 53:43 It's gotten profoundly less volatile. 53:45 I know, man. 53:46 Profoundly. 53:47 Sometimes once or twice it crashed like 50% in a single day. 53:51 Yeah, yeah. 53:52 I remember it crashed from 200 like $20 to like $90. 53:57 Dude, listen, I- 53:58 Like April of 2013 or something. 54:01 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 54:02 I remember that also. 54:03 I remember. 54:04 Man, like the thing is like people think now it's volatile or whatever. 54:07 But when you have been like for 10 volatile, things like that, then your whole net worth wasn't that. 54:11 Like you don't feel anymore like right now it's like- 54:14 Yeah, no. 54:15 Anyone who's OG like does not care about the price at all because it's already super high. 54:20 And it already- 54:23 There's, you know, people like you would never believe. 54:26 Like it would move 10% in a day for months on end. 54:31 Yeah. 54:32 Just for months on end. 54:33 It would just be crazy like that. 54:35 Yeah, and there was- 54:36 It was just like crazy. 54:37 And so many people made money with trading back then. 54:39 And I'll just be like, you shouldn't trade. 54:40 Like, dude, people made a lot of money because- 54:42 And there were also a lot of- 54:43 Like there was manipulation going on there. 54:46 You know, like there was- 54:47 Yeah, probably. 54:48 I mean, almost certainly because there were- 54:50 Yeah. 54:51 Because especially, I mean, the classic pump and dump thing, that would like play out a lot. 54:56 The price would go up and then you could feel- 54:59 This is why we're immune to it now. 55:00 You feel like the switches throw in your brain, like the delusion switches. 55:04 And you're like, oh my God, the price is going up. 55:06 I was right about everything. 55:07 I could tell. 55:08 I'm going to tell everyone to fuck off. 55:09 I'm going to quit my job. 55:10 I'm going to quit everything. 55:12 You know, I'm the greatest human ever. 55:15 And then it like crashes and you just feel like horrible depression, despondent. 55:21 But yeah, that would happen so often that it would be so easy for someone to just do that. 55:26 I'm sure that real Wall Street traders are skilled at putting people through that. 55:32 Well, the community of all these whale club pool whatever communities, that's what I think was going on. 55:37 And there were some people who were like- 55:38 There's still by the way now. 55:39 Some people were like, you know, more skilled. 55:44 There were some people who other people would look up to, right? 55:46 And they would kind of come in the room and say this and that. 55:49 I think maybe there are people who hang out in those communities and what I'm saying right now- 55:54 Yeah, but this is why you shouldn't trade though, because this is just- 55:56 You're always getting eaten by bigger fish. 55:58 Yeah. 55:59 Just don't trade. 56:01 Just do your research. 56:03 Do your little investment. 56:05 Just stop thinking about it. 56:06 Do you remember when DeRoz went there and had an interview with them? 56:08 It was like 2016 or something. 56:10 Yes, that was a long time ago. 56:12 Yeah, and he talked about efficient markets and everything, I think. 56:15 Yeah, it was like a text message battle between him and them. 56:19 Yeah. 56:20 That's what I remember. 56:21 No, he talked on voice. 56:22 It was a voice thing. 56:23 I could probably find it. 56:24 Oh, yeah. 56:25 Maybe he went- That was when it was- That was like when Discord was getting big. 56:30 Am I remembering that now? 56:32 Yeah. 56:33 He went in their Discord channel or something. 56:36 No, I don't think it was. 56:37 No, maybe I don't remember. 56:38 Anyway, I'm not also sure, but yeah. 56:41 But you know what? 56:43 Again, I just missed that. 56:44 I can't get that excited about it. 56:45 And it's not because it's just I'm an old man, but I don't think people have the same attitude towards things. 56:51 And I want them, and I just feel so happy with those joys of excitement like that. 56:57 And it was such a special thing. 56:58 And now no one thinks about it as a special thing. 57:00 Everyone just thinks like it's like, oh, do you run a node? 57:04 That's all it became to. 57:05 It's not- I want those days back. 57:08 I want to feel excited. 57:09 I want to get off my chair every time. 57:11 I still am like that, I guess. 57:12 I still get off my chair every time I talk about Bitcoin. 57:14 Yeah, I think in the past, it was like clearer how you would make progress. 57:19 Whereas today, it's like there is nothing you can do. 57:22 Success is preordained. 57:24 Just don't do anything. 57:26 And I think people find that annoying. 57:28 Rightly so, because it's not true. 57:32 Lots of stuff has to be done for Bitcoin to succeed. 57:36 But yeah, I think people like to make progress towards something. 57:42 So in the past, you could like- it was clear that there was a way forward. 57:49 Yeah, I'm not talking about- 57:50 But here it's kind of like- 57:51 I'm just talking- 57:52 You're stuck, and everyone just kind of waits around. 57:55 No, my criticism isn't towards that. 57:57 My criticism is more like the attitude of people, man. 57:59 There was a different attitude that people had. 58:01 It was just something else. 58:03 Everyone was doing something. 58:04 Everyone was hustling somewhere. 58:05 Everyone was just like- 58:07 They were walking differently on the street. 58:09 Now everyone is just like- 58:11 No one- 58:12 Everyone is just like- 58:13 I don't know, not doing anything. 58:14 No one is excited about it. 58:15 No one feels like this is the greatest thing in the world. 58:17 And the people who do think it's the greatest thing in the world, 58:19 they say it in a boring way, if you ask me. 58:21 And I don't know. 58:22 Maybe that's a stupid criticism. 58:24 But yeah. 58:25 No, I think I know what you mean. 58:28 Like I said in that video, everyone was linging dick. 58:31 From the people who- 58:32 Everyone was just linging serious dick. 58:34 There was this attitude of like- 58:36 Fuck, yeah. 58:37 And now the attitude is more like- 58:39 Be humble. 58:40 Run a node. 58:43 I just don't understand. 58:44 This is the greatest thing in human history, 58:46 and you're supposed to be humble about it? 58:48 I don't know. 58:49 Well, yeah. 58:50 I definitely think that, again, culturally, 58:53 with the block size debate, 58:54 it landed people in a weird spot. 58:56 Because before, it was like, 58:59 how can we get people to use Bitcoin and adopt Bitcoin 59:02 and make their first Bitcoin transaction? 59:04 And now it has shifted slightly. 59:08 But what I want to call attention to 59:11 is the fact that now it's sort of aversive. 59:15 People don't want to say that 59:18 because they'll be afraid of being accused 59:20 of being a large blocker 59:22 or a BCH person or something. 59:26 And they- 59:27 So people know that they shouldn't just say 59:29 that everyone should adopt Bitcoin. 59:31 They have to also say adopt Lightning or something. 59:34 And so people kind of don't really know- 59:37 It kind of messes with the narrative a little bit, I think. 59:39 Because people know they want to get excited about Bitcoin, 59:41 but they also know that they shouldn't say 59:43 that people should use Bitcoin, 59:45 and this lands people in a kind of awkward spot. 59:48 And that is kind of- 59:50 I'm not really seeing this that much. 59:52 I don't know. 59:53 I don't experience what you're just saying. 59:55 I didn't see it. 59:56 Well, instead, the narrative is buy and hold. 59:58 Yeah. 59:59 You know what my problem is with buy and hold, man? 1:00:01 This happened. 1:00:02 I had this really nice guitar, 1:00:04 and I was going to sell it. 1:00:05 And it was incredible. 1:00:07 And so I go to the shop and I'm like, 1:00:08 dude, I want to sell my guitar, whatever. 1:00:10 And he goes like, 1:00:11 dude, don't sell this guitar. 1:00:12 You're never going to have a guitar like this. 1:00:14 And that made me mad. 1:00:15 He's like, well, you think I'm not going to have money 1:00:17 in the future to buy a guitar like this if I want to? 1:00:19 You really think that's it? 1:00:22 My life is this one chance 1:00:23 and I'll never get the greatest guitar in the world? 1:00:25 It's the same thing with Bitcoin. 1:00:26 It's like, really? 1:00:27 You really think there's nothing I could do 1:00:29 to make more Bitcoin in the future? 1:00:30 Is this like I'm supposed to buy a lottery ticket 1:00:33 and wait for it now? 1:00:34 And that's what a lot of people think it is. 1:00:36 And they're not aspiring towards anything. 1:00:37 Everyone just wants to get rich 1:00:39 and go buy a cabin in the woods. 1:00:41 That's my issue. 1:00:42 That's what I'm trying to say 1:00:43 is that people like to aspire towards things. 1:00:47 I don't think people like that. 1:00:48 I don't see anyone aspiring towards anything. 1:00:50 No, but I think that they are defeated 1:00:53 by the culture of Bitcoin. 1:00:55 They would prefer to, but they can't. 1:00:57 They know that if they try some things, 1:01:01 the things that the community doesn't like, 1:01:04 and they don't want to do that. 1:01:07 So they don't want to be like Roger Ver. 1:01:09 But Roger did something very stupid, though. 1:01:12 That's the problem, 1:01:13 because he was also very wrong 1:01:14 about what he was fighting for. 1:01:16 I have technical arguments to say 1:01:19 that didn't make sense. 1:01:20 Yes, but most people don't understand 1:01:22 those arguments at all. 1:01:24 So most people are just like, 1:01:25 okay, that was a guy who was enthusiastic. 1:01:31 But if I don't understand technical arguments, 1:01:33 I guess I just shouldn't do anything, 1:01:35 or I guess I just shouldn't say anything. 1:01:37 So that's the lesson is people are just like, 1:01:39 well, I'll just be quiet and trust. 1:01:41 And I'll just trust the experts, 1:01:43 which is never a good sign. 1:01:45 You are so right. 1:01:46 There is this pecking order, 1:01:48 where if you're technical, 1:01:50 whatever the fuck that means, 1:01:51 if you could talk about things, 1:01:53 if you use fancy words about things 1:01:55 and people don't know why they are, 1:01:56 they all of a sudden assume you're smart, 1:01:58 and they're going to listen to you. 1:02:00 Oh, by the way, I added a PGP key 1:02:02 in my Twitter handle, 1:02:03 even though I don't sign anything with it. 1:02:05 Yeah, I have mine in there too, 1:02:07 because I don't know why not. 1:02:08 But now I kind of see why you're laughing, 1:02:11 because it's kind of silly. 1:02:12 It is, because what the fuck, 1:02:14 if you're not doing GitHub commits, 1:02:16 what the fuck are you going to use it for? 1:02:18 I don't know. 1:02:19 Sometimes people email me with PGPs. 1:02:21 But the thing is that, 1:02:22 the reason why I have it is because 1:02:24 I think people think I'm more smart than I am, 1:02:26 because it's like, oh my God, 1:02:27 it's a key or something, right? 1:02:29 It's a developer or something. 1:02:30 It's kind of, yeah. 1:02:31 Well, it's weird to do that 1:02:33 when Twitter has decided 1:02:36 that it will just rearrange information 1:02:41 for the greater good. 1:02:43 So it's kind of like, 1:02:45 it's not super reliable channel 1:02:48 of getting your PGP key across. 1:02:54 I mean, sometimes it is. 1:02:55 I don't know. 1:02:56 The thing is like, 1:02:57 so let's say right now I want to like, 1:02:58 you release something 1:02:59 and I want to see the binaries. 1:03:01 The right way would be to look in multiple sources, 1:03:03 like on a key server or whatever. 1:03:05 So if it's just one more, 1:03:06 it's not that bad. 1:03:07 But it's not the most reliable one. 1:03:08 You're right. 1:03:09 It's another option, right? 1:03:10 You're right. 1:03:11 But I don't think- 1:03:12 I mean, one day we'll have that Namecoin sidechain 1:03:17 and this will all be a thing of the past 1:03:19 because all of your keys and logins 1:03:22 will all just be with that one name that you have 1:03:24 and it'll all be a beautiful world one day. 1:03:27 I see what you're trying to say. 1:03:28 So you'll just have your name, 1:03:30 whatever you want it to be, 1:03:31 whatever. 1:03:32 So it's pretty much like Keybase. 1:03:34 You're trying to say like- 1:03:35 Yeah, exactly. 1:03:36 And that thing will have 1:03:37 all of your login usernames and login stuff 1:03:40 for every single thing, 1:03:42 even things that aren't invented yet. 1:03:43 And that's going to be derived. 1:03:44 It's the same as like an ancient wallet, right? 1:03:46 Because it'll just be like, 1:03:47 they'll kick you a thing and you sign it 1:03:49 and then it kicks back and you're logged in. 1:03:51 So it'll be like a password manager 1:03:53 and it'll be everything. 1:03:54 It'll just all be integrated. 1:03:55 You'll never need to know. 1:03:56 Like if you go, 1:03:57 oh, I really like this guy's Twitter. 1:03:59 I wonder what his YouTube channel is. 1:04:00 Or I really like this guy's YouTube. 1:04:02 I wonder what his Instagram is. 1:04:03 It'll all just be the same thing 1:04:05 and it'll be glorious. 1:04:07 You'll never have to log in again to anywhere 1:04:09 because it'll just, 1:04:10 it'll know, 1:04:11 there'll be some kind of browser plugin 1:04:13 and it'll just be your one ID. 1:04:14 And of course you have multiple IDs. 1:04:16 So you have like your, 1:04:17 you have like your real ID 1:04:19 that the government knows about 1:04:21 and that your friends know about. 1:04:22 And then you have like, you know, 1:04:24 like your weird pornography ID or whatever 1:04:27 to sign it onto your weird sites, you know, 1:04:29 that you don't want other people to know about. 1:04:30 And then you have like your crazy Walter White 1:04:33 crime Lord ID or whatever, you know, 1:04:35 whatever you do in here. 1:04:36 And then you have like a couple of extra IDs 1:04:38 just for fun. 1:04:39 You can make them, 1:04:40 it'll be like Bitcoin addresses 1:04:41 or you can just make a million of them if you want. 1:04:43 So it'll be, 1:04:44 that'll be, 1:04:45 that'll be the greatest thing ever. 1:04:46 One day, 1:04:47 that's the one, 1:04:48 I don't know how far away that is, 1:04:49 dear people, 1:04:50 both people in the audience who are listening, 1:04:53 but one day we'll reach that shining city on the hill 1:04:58 and you won't have to think about all this junk anymore. 1:05:01 Things like this, 1:05:02 people don't want to explore in a Bitcoin community. 1:05:04 I know. 1:05:05 People used to do, 1:05:06 people used to talk about, 1:05:08 they were like, 1:05:09 we're going to use Bitcoin for this. 1:05:10 We're going to use this. 1:05:11 It's going to change everything. 1:05:12 We're going to timestamp everything. 1:05:13 Evidence is going to be never going to be the same. 1:05:16 Yeah. 1:05:17 And it was, 1:05:18 you're right. 1:05:19 That is an example of how different it was. 1:05:20 It used to be like, 1:05:21 people could just talk like that all the time 1:05:23 about some crazy idea. 1:05:24 And now it's like that idea wasn't good 1:05:27 because you didn't whatever, 1:05:29 think about the effect it would have on the network. 1:05:32 Yeah. 1:05:33 And the thing is that I remember at one point 1:05:35 I went on this peer-to-peer markets like rabbit hole, 1:05:37 dude. 1:05:38 And I spent like a week just like, 1:05:39 there were a lot of posts on this, 1:05:41 like on Bitcoin talk from even like really old ones. 1:05:43 And people were just saying the most stupidest things 1:05:46 and people would address them. 1:05:47 And that was fine. 1:05:48 It was, 1:05:49 it was a conversation. 1:05:50 It wasn't like, 1:05:51 you know, 1:05:52 you're not a devil for seeing some people. 1:05:53 Yeah. 1:05:54 And people got it. 1:05:55 Creativity. 1:05:56 Yeah. 1:05:57 It was like that. 1:05:58 Yeah. 1:05:59 I mean, 1:06:00 I'm sure there are like, 1:06:01 this is all just the offshoot of, 1:06:03 you know, 1:06:04 my point on that is that this is all just an offshoot of the site, 1:06:07 the failure of sidechains. 1:06:09 I like how you're always circling everything back to your project, 1:06:12 but you are right. 1:06:13 I mean, 1:06:14 you are doing that, 1:06:15 but it's like, 1:06:16 it's not as though I worked on the project first 1:06:18 and then trying to manipulate the narrative. 1:06:20 I was just joking. 1:06:21 It's fine. 1:06:22 My project is the prediction markets project, 1:06:25 but all the other stuff I do is when I look at the Bitcoin community and I 1:06:28 see it for the, 1:06:30 the underperforming mess that it is, 1:06:33 and then I'm trying to fix that. 1:06:35 So I'm like, 1:06:36 it's not as though I, 1:06:37 I have to push back. 1:06:39 And I don't think it's fair to say it's an underperforming mess. 1:06:41 And, 1:06:42 and culturally it is, 1:06:44 you know, 1:06:45 it's great. 1:06:46 Obviously it's, 1:06:47 it's fulfilled its purpose. 1:06:48 It's a wonderful bank for moving money around the world. 1:06:51 And it works as advertised. 1:06:54 And yeah, 1:06:55 but it's not, 1:06:56 you know, 1:06:57 I think we have, 1:06:58 we should make it clear that all these things that we're talking about, 1:07:00 it's more a Twitter problem. 1:07:02 And there are a lot of people, 1:07:03 come on. 1:07:04 There's a lot of like smart people and a lot of like otter plays on the 1:07:07 internet and IRC and whatever, 1:07:09 but that's not the case. 1:07:10 And you know, 1:07:11 very well. 1:07:12 And there's still have this conversation and want it right there. 1:07:14 So that's not everywhere. 1:07:15 That's true. 1:07:16 I think you're right. 1:07:17 It's weird that, 1:07:18 I mean, 1:07:19 I don't know, 1:07:20 but there's some people who are on Twitter. 1:07:22 It seems as though Twitter has a very strong influence about like the 1:07:25 stuff that happens on Twitter seems to affect like who gets invited to 1:07:29 conferences. 1:07:30 It's emotional arbitrage. 1:07:31 Well, 1:07:32 here's the thing right now, 1:07:33 but no, 1:07:34 but that's not what I'm saying. 1:07:35 I'm saying some Twitter effects, 1:07:36 like who gets what job sometimes, 1:07:38 right? 1:07:39 Like some people get hired just because of like their tweets, 1:07:46 they get hired at for some, 1:07:48 for some Seneca job. 1:07:49 But one second here. 1:07:50 I know. 1:07:51 So if, 1:07:52 if there were, 1:07:53 let's say I have a company that does something, 1:07:54 you understand what I'm trying to say now is that somehow Twitter affects 1:07:57 the conferences. 1:07:58 It affects. 1:07:59 That's okay. 1:08:00 Code. 1:08:01 It affects, 1:08:02 you know, 1:08:03 it was the UASF was like a Twitter thing. 1:08:04 Kind of not really. 1:08:05 It's barely, 1:08:06 that's when it kind of started people. 1:08:07 Yeah. 1:08:08 It's hard to say. 1:08:09 It was a Reddit was the biggest thing. 1:08:10 It was still a big red anyway, 1:08:11 but here's the thing right now. 1:08:12 So let's say I have a company and I want to start the water bottles. 1:08:13 Right. 1:08:14 And I see this guy who's really good at getting attention on Twitter. 1:08:16 Well, 1:08:17 that's my guy. 1:08:18 I'm going to hire my guy because my guy knows how to mean. 1:08:20 So it makes sense. 1:08:21 Sure. 1:08:22 Like, 1:08:23 yes. 1:08:24 I know I'm saying, 1:08:25 but I'm just saying like, 1:08:26 why is it Twitter? 1:08:27 That is, 1:08:28 why is the tail wagging the dog? 1:08:29 You know what I mean? 1:08:30 Like, 1:08:31 why is it Twitter? 1:08:32 That is. 1:08:33 So influential. 1:08:34 I think it's, 1:08:35 I think it's the sun is setting on Twitter, 1:08:37 but I just think that what, 1:08:39 why isn't it Reddit? 1:08:40 Like what used to be, 1:08:41 why isn't it? 1:08:42 Why isn't it telegram? 1:08:43 Why isn't it? 1:08:45 Why isn't it formed at bitcoin.com? 1:08:46 Like, 1:08:47 why is it? 1:08:48 Why could be something else? 1:08:49 Because it sucks. 1:08:50 Donkey balls. 1:08:51 I'm just saying, 1:08:52 I was just as an example. 1:08:53 I know, 1:08:54 but I have to ask for you. 1:08:55 So you, 1:08:56 I think there, 1:08:57 there seems to be this, 1:08:58 this thing that, 1:08:59 that, 1:09:00 that converges into like very small, 1:09:01 small format things. 1:09:02 You want to use that. 1:09:03 You want to play with at least attention on this effort and get the most amygdala stimulants. 1:09:07 Right. 1:09:08 And, 1:09:09 and all the social medias are markets. 1:09:12 To pricing, 1:09:13 uh, 1:09:14 uh, 1:09:15 things into amygdala stimulants. 1:09:16 Right. 1:09:17 I know I'm getting abstract, 1:09:18 but fuck you. 1:09:19 Yeah. 1:09:20 Yeah. 1:09:21 It's a little, 1:09:22 it's very theoretical, 1:09:23 but I'm, 1:09:24 I'm on board with it so far. 1:09:25 Okay. 1:09:26 But the point is that right now you want to pay as little as you can. 1:09:29 And, 1:09:30 and, 1:09:31 and Twitter seems to be the best format for this. 1:09:33 Like you just think, 1:09:34 but that would explain why Twitter is also taking over other parts of the world. 1:09:39 Like most media. 1:09:40 And, 1:09:41 uh, 1:09:42 yeah. 1:09:43 And that's why Vine makes a lot of sense right now. 1:09:44 That's why we were seeing this kind of vergence towards it. 1:09:47 There's this low for again, 1:09:48 it's just cost versus benefit. 1:09:49 Yeah. 1:09:50 Sorry. 1:09:51 It's cost versus benefit. 1:09:52 Right. 1:09:53 Is the same as like what? 1:09:54 Sure. 1:09:55 Exactly. 1:09:56 The interesting thing about that explanation is it's not specific to Bitcoin though. 1:09:59 It just says that Twitter is just taking over everyone's brain. 1:10:01 Right. 1:10:02 So why is it to Bitcoin? 1:10:03 Well, 1:10:04 I don't know. 1:10:05 I think there, 1:10:06 there just is something to this format. 1:10:07 You know what? 1:10:08 It could very well be that at the right point when they started like really going 1:10:12 up, 1:10:13 someone made, 1:10:14 uh, 1:10:15 someone made noise around Bitcoin and it just got into it. 1:10:18 I think, 1:10:19 I don't know. 1:10:20 Yeah. 1:10:21 I don't know either. 1:10:22 Maybe like, 1:10:23 it's an interesting question. 1:10:24 If I have to, 1:10:26 I'll tell you why. 1:10:27 It's one reason because I, 1:10:29 when Reddit started being a bit too shit posty, 1:10:32 right. 1:10:33 Yes. 1:10:34 It was the only platform that allows you to be anonymous. 1:10:36 And that was a big thing because people didn't want to use their ID. 1:10:39 Reddit was good because he has the same thing. 1:10:41 You could create IDs. 1:10:42 And that was the whole thing with Twitter. 1:10:44 And I think that's when, 1:10:45 that was a very important thing, 1:10:46 like around when SegWit happened and everyone started moving to Twitter, 1:10:49 Twitter, 1:10:50 then it was just network from then. 1:10:52 I don't know if that's the only one, 1:10:54 but I'm sure that's a. 1:10:55 Yeah. 1:10:56 Could be. 1:10:57 I mean, 1:10:58 I wonder like why, 1:10:59 given how it's clear Twitter is clearly like not rational and sort of, 1:11:06 efficient way of computing, 1:11:07 like the best idea. 1:11:09 Sure. 1:11:10 You would agree on that. 1:11:11 The ideas are that do that spread are just good at spreading. 1:11:16 And they're not necessarily the ones with the highest merit. 1:11:19 So given how irrational it is, 1:11:21 it's weird that it would have such an influence on the Bitcoin protocol. 1:11:26 Ultimately. 1:11:27 I mean, 1:11:28 to the limited extent that it does, 1:11:30 but it does have some, 1:11:31 but at the end of the day, 1:11:33 it's again, 1:11:34 it boils back to what you said. 1:11:35 At the end of the day, 1:11:36 there's like this, 1:11:37 there's this thing that where there are a lot of people, 1:11:40 where your tribe is to some degree, 1:11:41 right? 1:11:42 Yes. 1:11:43 And, 1:11:44 and you, 1:11:45 as much as you want to be here, 1:11:46 you're going to bump into this from time to time. 1:11:47 But you want the tribe to do well. 1:11:48 You won't, 1:11:49 you won't go so far. 1:11:50 Like you want to show, 1:11:51 show loyalty to your friends, 1:11:53 like with the voting, 1:11:54 like I was saying before, 1:11:55 but you won't do something that's so crazy that, 1:11:59 you know, 1:12:00 costs you your life or your entire net worth or something. 1:12:02 You, 1:12:03 what if it becomes too expensive? 1:12:04 You just won't like, 1:12:05 what if all your friends, 1:12:06 let's say all your friends are going outside and it's cold and they are, 1:12:12 they're, 1:12:13 they don't like to wear coats. 1:12:14 They like to wear, 1:12:15 it's like this, 1:12:16 you know, 1:12:17 they like to wear T-shirt and shorts, 1:12:19 even though it's freezing outside, 1:12:21 for example, 1:12:22 and you, 1:12:24 and you play along with it for a while, 1:12:27 but the temperature just gets so low. 1:12:30 It's like 20 degrees Fahrenheit. 1:12:33 And, 1:12:34 and then you get diagnosed with a medical condition where you'll die if, 1:12:39 you know, 1:12:40 you can't, 1:12:41 can't be out in the cold or you're susceptible to flu. 1:12:44 Eventually you just, 1:12:45 you can't do it. 1:12:46 You can't, 1:12:47 it costs so much. 1:12:48 And that's what I'm saying. 1:12:49 Like Twitter, 1:12:50 it has a cost because it isn't, 1:12:52 it's so unreasonable. 1:12:53 I agree with you, 1:12:54 but the most, 1:12:55 I don't know why people don't, 1:12:57 why isn't there like a way around it? 1:12:59 Well, 1:13:00 because first of all, 1:13:01 there's a lot of biases, 1:13:02 a lot of like cognitive type biases. 1:13:05 I'm sure there are multiple types of cognitive biases, 1:13:07 anyway, 1:13:08 or some form of like, 1:13:09 like, 1:13:10 like that. 1:13:11 And then there's the fact that it feels good to be cheered by people. 1:13:14 Come on, 1:13:15 you know this. 1:13:16 I do, 1:13:17 but I don't know why. 1:13:18 I understand why people like Twitter. 1:13:20 I just don't understand why Twitter has so seemingly has influence over Bitcoin. 1:13:27 It's very simple because there's too many people there and you bump into it. 1:13:32 And there's just some form of emotional arbitrage between rational world type thinking people. 1:13:38 And then irrational Twitter here is just emotional arbitrage. 1:13:41 And it's just because this is so big, 1:13:43 you're going to bump into it at some point. 1:13:45 There's going to be someone, 1:13:46 some guy, 1:13:47 some podcast to listen to. 1:13:48 There's some way your mind has to touch it. 1:13:51 Right. 1:13:52 And you will get it. 1:13:53 I'm just trying to say like, 1:13:54 okay, 1:13:55 the CEO of, 1:13:56 I don't know, 1:13:57 Anycom, 1:13:58 General Electric in the United States, 1:14:00 you know, 1:14:01 Twitter affects them, 1:14:03 but it doesn't really affect like the CEO's decisions. 1:14:07 You know, 1:14:08 I don't think so. 1:14:09 Oh, 1:14:10 you know what? 1:14:11 Here's the thing right now. 1:14:12 You are right. 1:14:13 Bitcoin, 1:14:14 I think it got the block size increased in by the UASF in 2017. 1:14:18 I, 1:14:19 again, 1:14:20 that I don't think that was Twitter. 1:14:21 I think that was Reddit more than anything else. 1:14:23 But, 1:14:24 but a good example of this was that there are a lot of CEOs who do take 1:14:29 actions for true. 1:14:30 Oh, 1:14:31 by the way, 1:14:32 you know what? 1:14:33 I made this video at one point that I was saying that when you make a 1:14:35 product, 1:14:36 that's not, 1:14:37 it's supposed to get priced in monetary value. 1:14:39 Like if you do a good job, 1:14:40 you should get Bitcoin. 1:14:41 Right. 1:14:42 And this goes back to this conversation of like companies and whatever, 1:14:44 but the projects in Bitcoin right now, 1:14:46 they're getting priced in likes, 1:14:47 retweets and GitHub commits. 1:14:48 Right. 1:14:49 Which is a very stupid thing to do. 1:14:51 Yeah. 1:14:52 I think you may be right about that because it's so irrelevant and like 1:14:55 nothing can be changed and there's no way of making a profit. 1:14:59 Um, the best thing to do is just hold Bitcoin and all the other projects are. 1:15:06 I'm not saying that, I'm not going that far. I'm just trying to say like, there's some projects who need to make money. 1:15:10 Well, I think there's, there's an extent to which that's true and which it's like, this is like everything that's not Bitcoin is a scam to the extent that the return on investment in Bitcoin for the effort, you know, which is zero, basically. 1:15:23 I mean, you have to do the upfront research, but think about like what company can you produce an ROI from operations that has anything close to Bitcoin. 1:15:33 So really there is a kind of some, yeah, I know that exchanges are the exception, of course, that's true. But other than that, the exchange is notwithstanding. 1:15:43 Um, it's like, there is nothing you would want to start that could, you know, that could compete with this. And so it would be, there are every other idea is sort of a, almost a dishonest idea. 1:15:58 But anyway, you were saying something else. 1:16:00 Yeah, no, that's kind of like tangent to my point. My point is that actually people would want to make money and they would want to do this, but they end up caring more about this ideology about like people liking them and sounding maximalist and getting retweets rather than making money. 1:16:14 Because you're not having these companies who are loved by some Bitcoiners on Twitter, whatever that means, right? But their customers are not Bitcoiners. 1:16:22 They're building like products for normal people, but they don't, people never heard about them. Right. And you have these products who are just liked by everyone and get called at conferences and whatever, but no one is actually using their products. Right. 1:16:32 And I have a good example of this fucking HadoHado. Like that's the, I don't want to put them down. They're nice people. They're doing a lot of good work. The product is shit though. No one is fucking using it. 1:16:42 And in the meanwhile, they just think it's fine with them for being cypherpunks. Right. That's what I mean. Like if you're getting priced, ingesting likes, retweets, and GitHub commits, that's not necessarily good if you're in business. 1:16:53 Right. That's what I'm saying though. It's like, why is it that people go along with this irrational world? 1:16:58 Because they're stupid. People are humans. 1:17:00 Yeah, I get, well. 1:17:02 It's so simple, isn't it? 1:17:04 Well, you can explain an awful lot that way. That's the problem is you can explain everything that way. And so it's... 1:17:10 But the thing is like this is... 1:17:11 So you just say, oh, anything I don't like in the world, it must just be other people's fault and not mine. 1:17:16 You know what I... 1:17:18 It's just because they're really stupid. 1:17:20 You know what I think, there are a few moments in my life where I consider myself being really smart. And I said this before, but anyway. And it's not because I have some weird insight. I get some weird moments of clarity and there are many moments of clarity. Right. 1:17:35 And I think people don't get these moments of clarity anymore on Bitcoin because they're just so caught up into this whole fucking thing and whatever. 1:17:42 And they hear this narrative so many times and fuck the banks, fuck those people. No, cypherpunks, we fight for it. We fight for Bitcoin. And it's really that simple. They get stuck into this weird world. 1:17:53 Well, I think that's true. Yeah, I think, no, I think culture is... 1:17:56 My view of culture is very different from most people's. 1:18:01 So I guess I should maybe explain a little of it. But I think, first of all, I take the definition of culture that it's ideas that group of people have that cause them to behave similarly. 1:18:10 So that's, it's just a group of people that have ideas and those ideas cause them to behave similarly. 1:18:17 It's a pretty simple definition. If you go to a stadium, you cheer. If you go to a rock concert, you cheer, you clap. If you go to an orchestra concert, you are quiet and then you clap at the end. 1:18:32 You know, like there's different things you're supposed to do. When you're in church, you kneel or whatever, chant, say various lines at certain times. 1:18:42 So, but my view of culture is that it's kind of a parasite that is just trying to destroy humanity and that we've been fighting it off ever since we, ever since our species evolved. 1:18:54 And that it is, it's, I think most culture is like, if not all culture is a lot like COVID or like the flu or something where these ideas are just spreading and attacking people. 1:19:09 And so, yeah, it's weird for me when people say, oh, we should preserve this culture. I mean, like, like, like all kinds of people say that like racist white nationalist people will say they'll use lines like that. 1:19:21 But so will people who want to like preserve the whatever Native American culture. Like I think all culture should not be preserved. It should be destroyed as quickly as possible. 1:19:31 But the culture is in your brain and it's, it's, it's eating you away and making you think that it's really, really, really, really important to you that you do all these things that are not important. 1:19:43 Like have a Christmas tree or something. You can do all this stuff if you want. I love Halloween. It's my favorite holiday. I think it's fun. I love activities. 1:19:51 You know, I think stuff is fun. But, you know, there's the culture creates this obsession that it is important. And really, it's not important. You are the important thing. And you should evict these thoughts from your brain if they are not helping you. 1:20:08 And I think that so I have this weird view. It's totally this weird screwball view that most people don't have at all. 1:20:15 Most people think that it's so important that when they hear the national anthem, they're just filled with joy. 1:20:20 You're missing one key point thing here. I agree with what you're saying. But there's one thing you're missing here. And that thing is that for most of human existence, culture couldn't get updated so fast. 1:20:31 So I agree with you. 1:20:33 So culture was beneficial. 1:20:37 No, it was because culture is the only real way to store information, like how to build a fire or how to make. But people were just doing it ritualistically. They had no idea what they were doing. 1:20:49 But the thing is, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because it serves purpose. But now the point is like we're at this shilling point. Everyone says that, right? 1:20:58 We have passed escaped velocity. And we don't need to just repeat what your parents did. And you don't need to just be a better version of what your parents were, or whatever, or a better version of what your favorite childhood hero was. 1:21:14 You can be your own different thing if you want. You can be anything because you're human and that's your birthright. And you don't have to deal with these weird ideas that are coming from other people. 1:21:24 They are just repeating because they heard them from someone else because these ideas are specialized to do that, just like COVID. 1:21:30 You know what my take is on life actually? And I'm going to get a bit more mystical. 1:21:37 But you know what, like one day you just wake up, right? Like you're one year old, two years old, it happened at a different time. And you suddenly realize that you exist. And it's kind of a weird thing. 1:21:47 It's happened all of a sudden, but it's not like really precise. And it's just, you know, I'm sure everyone relates to this when you're a kid. And if you remember anyway, and you'd realize you're alive, you realize that you're experiencing and you start going around and clap on things and go whatever. 1:22:01 And you go crazy, right? And you go to your parents most probably. And you kind of go like, I'm alive. I'm alive. And everyone says like, do you see how crazy this is? And your parents are like, yeah, sure. 1:22:13 Yeah, it's kind of cool. It's a miracle of life, whatever. 1:22:16 Yeah. And it's like, don't you get it? Like how crazy it is? Like, yeah, you're gonna walk, you're gonna run over. And then you go on and explore, you start making sounds like, oh, you know, you start punching things. 1:22:28 You go on and then after a certain point, you go back, then you revisit the thought and you're like, okay, but what is this life about, though? Like, really, what is life about? They're gonna say, you have to get a job, you have to get a wife, you have to like, you know, save money, go on vacations, work hard, keep your head down. 1:22:44 And, you know, it doesn't take, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize how stupid it sounds. You just have to have this weird moment of clarity and not have a tainted view on or to have this culture inflicted on you to understand that's the most dumbest thing someone could ever tell you, right? 1:23:00 Yeah, well, it's like, you know, there's nothing necessarily dumb about any of those things, right? It's just that you don't have to do any of that. You could do some other thing if you wanted. 1:23:10 But then again, you go to them and you say, like, how do you guys know this is what life is about? Because it doesn't make sense. 1:23:16 Right, they heard it from someone else. They're just repeating it. They're going to tell you and then they're going to tell you in a way, in precisely a way that will cause you to tell your own children. 1:23:28 Are you familiar? 1:23:29 It's like COVID. 1:23:31 And are you familiar with there's this experiment of the monkeys, which actually never took place, by the way. That's an anecdote. But there's the experiment of the monkey who gets electrocuted every time they go for the banana and they change the monkey. That never took place. 1:23:45 But it electrocutes the whole cage and then they start telling the other monkeys not to do it, even though none of the original monkeys were there for the thing. 1:23:53 It's an anecdote. The experiment never took place. I looked at it. And there's some people who talk about it. But even though it didn't take place, I think it is real. 1:24:01 It doesn't matter. Yeah, you're right. It's clearly real. 1:24:03 The meme is real. And I think that's what life is. Life is just a big failed monkey experiment. And culture, as you define it, is just this bad habit that gets passed down for no reason anymore. Yeah. 1:24:16 Right, in general. I mean, it's possible for there to be, because culture contains all these rules and this knowledge from the past, some of which must be reliable, but not any of it could be unreliable. So you could be free to destroy any of it that you don't like. 1:24:38 It's funny because a lot of things like Christmas trees, I don't remember how new that is, but I think that's only like 200 years old or 100 years old or something super new. These things that people think are like they could never live without. 1:24:51 And that, you know, it's like so important. The United States after World War II, I think the United States only had 48 states, but people think that 50 stars on the American flag is like the most important thing in the universe. And if you ever put 52 stars or some other number, that would be the end of the world. 1:25:13 They have no idea that their own grandparents and parents lived when there were only 48 U.S. states. And then one crazy one is the Eiffel Tower. When it was built, everyone like hated it. 1:25:27 And there was one, like some important like architecture professor or something ate in the Eiffel Tower cafe. He ate lunch every single day because it was, quote, the only place in the entire city from which the tower was not visible. 1:25:47 So he hated it so much that he didn't want to look at it. But then, you know, over time, then it's like becomes this beloved thing. So all these things that you think are important, none of them are important. You should just forget about them. And that's not to say that they, if you like them, if you like them, then they're important to you. That's good. I'm all for that. I'm just saying like, you know, stop caring so much about all these things. 1:26:16 You know what I think is the biggest problem that people face in life and whatever is like, if you find meaning in juggling, that's fine. As long as you got to that conclusion, as long as it was your idea to juggle, right? The problem is when someone else tells you that you're supposed to juggle. 1:26:31 I think it's, it's, it's not necessarily bad, but it's suspicious. You say like, okay, you have to think like, because you don't know, this is the problem, because your brain doesn't, you know, it doesn't work reliably. But you have, there is a rational part of your brain. So you have to think like, do I actually like this? And if you decide that you actually do like it, then that was just good luck. You picked on something good, the culture had something good and it crashed into your brain and you got it for free. 1:27:01 That's possible, but it is suspicious when you get it from someone else, because it's like COVID. It's like your body is now mass producing. It's liquefying lung tissue and turning it into COVID. Millions and hundreds of millions of COVID cells. 1:27:17 And you're like, and you're like, is this what I want to be doing? Is it my best interest to eat food, have it turn into lung cells that then get dissolved and turn into COVID cells that I breathe out? Well, you know, who's to say like your, your gut, your, your gastrointestinal tract has all kinds of bacteria that help you digest food, or that are harmless. 1:27:45 So you took in those, and that is in your best interest, or... 1:27:48 I don't feel comfortable talking about COVID because we're going to get Donna off YouTube. 1:27:52 We're going to get, yeah, we're going to get YouTube. It's going to say this is whatever is not, this information is unreliable. 1:27:59 I'm okay talking about drugs, about heroin, about everything you want. 1:28:02 I know, I should have just said, I could have just said the influenza. 1:28:04 Yeah, because people like, people really get just... 1:28:07 Just bleep it out, go through and edit it out. And then when people get to this point, they'll be like, what? 1:28:13 Well, if people get to this point, that's like a really crazy thing, because we're going on for quite a while. 1:28:18 Well, what is it? It's two hours and a half, isn't it? 1:28:22 Did we talk about anything related to Bitcoin? I guess we did. 1:28:26 We talked about the important thing that, of which is this, which is the Bitcoin culture. 1:28:30 Don't worry about it, don't worry about it. 1:28:32 Don't worry about it. We clearly got in the far whatever. 1:28:37 Let's just take a look. 1:28:39 I'm completely unconcerned. I'm not worried about anything. 1:28:42 Okay, good. We clarified that. 1:28:46 So you added a lot of Bitcoin cash topics. 1:28:49 No, I just added two, but I added a lot of other things. 1:28:53 Yeah. And I just, as you're putting this, I'm like, you put it here, I want to look at it because I don't want to feel like... 1:29:00 Because you didn't read the notes until this moment. 1:29:03 I mean, should we talk about it? 1:29:04 So one of the ones that I think you'd like is that the Bitcoin cash airdrop or the split between with Armory leaving. 1:29:16 One thing is that you have to retrace, which I thought you would like, is that they have to say all the things that BTC was telling them back when they split off. 1:29:28 Yeah, I mean... 1:29:30 It's an irony that people may appreciate. So why are you so uninterested in it? 1:29:35 Like for me, I see the fact that the forks are so uncompetitive and bad and so weak as a kind of... 1:29:47 Well, it's very complicated, but one thing that concerns me is that it means the culture and Bitcoin core is not challenged by a rational adversary. 1:30:00 So it can continue to be more frivolous and absurd. So that is why it interests me. But you seem totally uninterested in it completely. 1:30:09 First of all, I do also like... So many times I think like no one dares to criticize core in any way. 1:30:15 They're like the divine gods and we should like either come out or something like that. 1:30:18 If you're a contributor, again, whatever the fuck that means, anyone can be a contributor, right? 1:30:22 I mean, it's not that hard, right? But I do think there's some... 1:30:26 Because if you are out there and you want to contribute some comments to Bitcoin core, there's this part of the elitism. 1:30:31 No one writes any comments to the core. There's no comments. It's horrible. 1:30:35 Come on, you're just... 1:30:37 I think some people should write, if you want, just go in there and write comments. 1:30:42 And just then you can become a core dev just writing the comments. 1:30:46 And if they refuse to merge your code, contact me and tell me about it. 1:30:51 And I will try to like literally like raise some kind of Armageddon about how... 1:30:57 Because I do think that lack of transparency is disappointing for these core... 1:31:03 People are like, not your keys, not your coins. 1:31:05 And then it's like, oh, you need a PhD in computer science to build Bitcoin core from source and to understand what's going on and whatever. 1:31:15 I'm sorry, what is the criticism exactly? Because that's a complex thing. 1:31:18 I want the user to be empowered. 1:31:21 I want them to know to the maximum extent possible what is going on. 1:31:26 You know very well that one thing that software developers do is they just make a lot of frivolous changes. 1:31:32 So that in their brain, they know, but no one else knows. 1:31:35 So they have job security. 1:31:37 They won't stand for that kind of nonsense. 1:31:40 But come on, that's a complex project, man. 1:31:42 And it's hard to keep up with all those things. 1:31:44 I'm just saying write some comments. 1:31:46 Just saying, put some fucking comments into the code. 1:31:51 Read through it and see if you find one comment. 1:31:55 I never looked. 1:31:56 I never looked. 1:31:57 I looked at very few instances. 1:31:58 See, he's criticizing me. 1:32:00 Now audience. 1:32:01 You see what I have to deal with? 1:32:02 Now audience. 1:32:04 You're so interesting. 1:32:06 Now audience. 1:32:08 Here it is, audience. 1:32:09 Joke's on me because no one is watching this. 1:32:11 This is terrible. 1:32:12 Dude, listen. 1:32:13 Who cares? 1:32:14 This is so boring. 1:32:15 I don't think it's boring. 1:32:16 The thing is that I did look like in very separate instances in codes and snippets and they were commented. 1:32:21 I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 1:32:23 There should be more comments. 1:32:24 Okay. 1:32:25 Okay, fair enough. 1:32:26 Just write more. 1:32:29 That's all I'm saying. 1:32:30 Okay, you were saying that it's bad that core infallibility. 1:32:35 Yeah, I don't remember what I want to say. 1:32:38 But there is like, Bitcoin is the one that's kind of challenging them. 1:32:42 But it's not like challenging them is just a different way of doing things. 1:32:46 And it's kind of a different thing, isn't it? 1:32:49 It's not really. 1:32:50 But it is, you know, a different thing you could use. 1:32:54 I guess. 1:32:55 Sure. 1:32:56 Yes. 1:32:57 Yeah, but you know very well that you really can't. 1:32:59 It's difficult to use different software because the nodes do not compete. 1:33:08 There's a risk that they will fall out of consensus with each other. 1:33:12 That risk is immense. 1:33:15 And the whole reason to run the node is so that you are in consensus. 1:33:18 So it's very difficult to just say. 1:33:22 But yeah, you could have different like, this is what I'm that's what I was trying to say before. 1:33:26 You could have different GUIs on top of Bitcoin D. 1:33:32 And then it would. 1:33:33 Yeah, there was this goal at one point to try and get lib consensus. 1:33:39 There would just be the canonical blockchain validity rules. 1:33:45 And then everything else would be its own thing that people could improve at will. 1:33:51 That could have been nice. 1:33:53 Honestly, though, sometimes I wish we could go back to when Satoshi originally released the software. 1:33:58 It was just like one giant block of code. 1:34:01 And I honestly, that has its appeal, you know. 1:34:06 It's a nightmare for a big project with a lot of people working on it, but it's just. 1:34:11 Wow. 1:34:12 Just like having it all like in a line. 1:34:14 But that's because it was a kindergarten project. 1:34:16 And I know. 1:34:17 But I'm just saying it's nice. 1:34:18 It has. 1:34:19 I'm just saying it has pros and cons. 1:34:23 The tradeoff with decentralization, especially working on it, is that, again, you have a lot of people and everything. 1:34:29 Yes, but this was about why you aren't interested in the forks, BCH and BSV. 1:34:35 You know what? 1:34:36 You know, like sometimes there are some kids who are, I don't want to say the R-word because I think that's not OK. 1:34:41 But like they're mentally challenged or something, right? 1:34:45 Is that politically correct to say like that? 1:34:47 I don't know, because there's this kind of treadmill where every time one becomes allowed, it eventually becomes stigmatized and offensive. 1:34:56 There are some kids. 1:34:57 But let's just say, I don't know, special needs is now the one I think maybe. 1:35:03 I'm not referring to special needs. 1:35:04 I'm saying like there are some kids who just like take shits on the street because they can't. 1:35:08 They just do that right now. 1:35:10 I understand. 1:35:11 There's two ways I can make fun of that or I could look at it or I could just be like that's something that happens, but doesn't have interest in it. 1:35:16 That's how I feel Bitcoin cashes. 1:35:19 I just can't find any reasons better than to do it. 1:35:22 It's just so cringeworthy that cringy that I just don't like I can't. 1:35:28 I don't think there's anything literally to look at there. 1:35:30 That's how I feel about it. 1:35:32 That's interesting. 1:35:33 I have a very different view of it. 1:35:34 I feel it as a I think it's I think it was a good idea to test the theory of large blocks somehow. 1:35:41 But I think that BCH did a terrible job doing this because in addition to increasing the block size, they threw in five or six thousand other commits and did all this other stuff. 1:35:54 And then they did this and that, taking out SegWit, changing the addresses. 1:36:01 So they did quite a bit of stuff and they did this ridiculous launch where the project started like in August secretly while SegWit2x was still a thing. 1:36:15 And then it sort of switched in November. 1:36:17 So I think it is a very convoluted, weak attempt to test the theory of large block Bitcoin. 1:36:26 Not that the test would be definitive, but nothing is ever definitive, as I said before. 1:36:31 I just think it would be nice to have more information. 1:36:33 But instead, they kind of messed up the test with all the stuff that they did. 1:36:38 And so that's kind of what I think about that. 1:36:42 And I think that it's silly for them to fork off and then complain when SV forks off and then complain when Armory wants to fork. 1:36:50 And now they have all these forks. 1:36:52 And now the price in terms of BTC has fallen and fallen and fallen for years. 1:36:59 And as you saw, I've been tweeting out as it hits new all-time lows. 1:37:05 Every day, these last two months, it's just been like a new all-time low of just so low. 1:37:14 But I'm fascinated by the idea of challenging. 1:37:18 I think that without competition, there won't be growth in BTC or it will be at a very slow pace. 1:37:28 And I think that there has been very little growth in BTC. 1:37:31 I mean, over the last four or five years, there's been SegWit and Lightning Network. 1:37:36 And there have been all these other ideas, but most people just don't even know about them. 1:37:40 There have been like, I mean, like who even knows about even sort of popular ideas that were ordained at scaling Bitcoin like state chain, Rubin-Sampson's state chains. 1:37:54 There's a commerce blog in London. I know Nick, the CEO, they're doing some interesting work on that. 1:38:00 But I'm saying like, there's like, where's the Twitter? 1:38:04 Well, I think I can tell you, well, here's the thing. 1:38:07 That's the same thing, like Nick, especially. 1:38:09 He has also, I talk with him and he's also very critical of the culture and he doesn't like it and whatever. 1:38:14 So Nick is exactly as in the same camp we are. 1:38:17 We should have him on the show. 1:38:20 Listen, he'll come. 1:38:23 We can talk about that. 1:38:24 Yeah. And he's an old timer, by the way. 1:38:26 Yeah. So that's why I think it's, I'm like a sleeping dog. 1:38:32 And then I raise my head when I see BCH BSV, because I think, could something zap the cattle prod BTC and get it to compete on rational criteria instead of Twitter, stupid Twitter criteria? 1:38:47 So that's kind of where I'm coming from. 1:38:49 No, I get it. 1:38:50 And I think like as a science experiment. 1:38:52 But unfortunately, I think, no, I think the cattle prod is like too weak. 1:38:56 No one's going to be challenged by this weird. 1:38:59 I think like there is some, I could see how someone could be interested in seeing this at like a crazy science experiments and just see how things could play out and having this other environment where the different rules, like a simulation. 1:39:12 But at the end of the day, I think you can kind of like disprove why this would never work just from an architectural point of view. 1:39:21 And it's like there's some basic consequences and tradeoffs that no one wants to agree with them. 1:39:25 And they're kind of feel they're fundamental to Bitcoin. 1:39:28 And that's why. 1:39:29 But is this just large blockism? Because I think that. 1:39:32 Yeah, I mean, it is. 1:39:34 It's well, to me, it's clear that you can have some people on the small block world and some people on the large block world. 1:39:41 So for me, I don't think I think it's crazy to commit to large block world and force everyone to go along when you can easily go the other way with layers. 1:39:49 But I think that I think that it's completely possible that you realize that people are never going to agree with you on that one, because, first of all, they don't believe in merge mining because they just hate that. 1:39:59 Right. 1:40:00 So for them, well, I don't know, I don't think they know anything about how many people even know anything about regular merge mining, they know anything. They just think that's an attack on Bitcoin. And that's where they leave it. So for them, it's impossible to understand that you can have both. They think you can have one or the other. Right. And if you have one. Yeah, but obviously, but they're simply they're obviously just wrong about that. So in my head, I just ignore people. Right. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. Right. Because I don't think most people think that at all, though. I have a lot of people who think that. 1:40:27 I hope I'm wrong. Basically, a million people don't know anything about merge mining. No, people don't know anything about regular merge mining. Like when I went around, I did research for this one thing. I think it was really only, it may have only been, this is a long time ago, it's like 2015, 2016. I think it may have been only Greg Maxwell who sent like a link to something that even had like a block explorer that would show 1:40:58 the information or something like there was like no, I was like in Bitcoin Wizards IRC chat. There was like no one. Basically, like I think that was and that was a regular merge mining. Just a regular version. 1:41:13 There's another guy who recently put out a post. 1:41:16 So I think there must be like 50 people worldwide. But I'm just saying like, there's not a lot. Most people are just totally mystified by it completely. They have no idea how it works at all. 1:41:27 It's impossible that Namecoin at one point was absorbing hash rate from BTC and BCH and it was sort of alternating. So it had a higher, there was a time when Namecoin had the highest hash rate, followed by BTC and followed by BCH because Namecoin was absorbing it from both chains. 1:41:45 And most people would have said like, that's impossible or something. Or they would have said, clearly Namecoin is Bitcoin or whatever, you know, like would have been this thing. So no one understands that's regular merge mining. And then this Blind Merged Mining is this thing that I invented. So I must be, I have to be cutting it down yet again. 1:42:06 So when people say that they don't like something, I have to make sure they actually know what they're talking about first before I care. 1:42:13 They don't, they clearly don't. 1:42:15 So they clearly have not a clue. So when they do say that one or two people are worried about this or that, but I thought about it already. 1:42:23 I noticed that as I was going through the blog, I told you. 1:42:28 So that's what I'm saying is that I don't think, so why would you do large blocks from my point of view? Because this is why I drink so much water because I lose my voice. 1:42:39 Go on. 1:42:41 Because you could have both. So to me, I think why commit to large blocks? That's crazy. 1:42:47 You lose all the small blocks for no reason. But I think it's, I can imagine in my brain, Bitcoin being a success with an unlimited block size. 1:42:59 I don't think so. I just don't think so. 1:43:01 It's very different from the Bitcoin that we have and it has its own new set of problems, but that are big problems. 1:43:08 But I can still kind of just imagine it happening. I just think it's possible. 1:43:12 You know how this feels to me and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like, you know, imagine we could have simulations of our reality, right? 1:43:19 And like in the weekend morning, you have a simulation when people have butts instead of faces. 1:43:23 Yes, right. Yeah. 1:43:24 I would want to see that, but at the end of the day, I doubt there's going to be anything like really we can get for that. 1:43:30 Oh, it's just funny to see people farting out of their face or something, but I doubt there's going to be something insightful. 1:43:35 I would want to have a simulation where people have two hands, three hands, or that's a very bad example. 1:43:40 They would both be equally weird. 1:43:41 Well, I mean, so anyway, this isn't even really that important to what I was trying to say. 1:43:45 Challenging core. 1:43:47 Because BCH doesn't even do that. You have to pay the cost of the hard fork, but they only moved it to like eight megabytes the first time. 1:43:59 And you know, one eight, that's not a big deal. 1:44:03 Come on, that's an order of magnitude. What the fuck are you talking about? That's one order of fucking magnitude. 1:44:08 I know, but that's not enough to like, you know, what their aspiration was cash for the whole world. 1:44:14 Are you aware of how fast the blockchain grows year over year? 1:44:19 Yes. So then what do you mean? 1:44:21 There's a thousand blocks a week and there's... 1:44:23 No, I'm saying eight is not enough to make a difference as far as the benefit to the user. 1:44:28 You were prejudiced. 1:44:30 Yes, I was. 1:44:32 And you thought I was saying the cost is low. 1:44:34 Yes, I was. 1:44:35 I was actually taking the BTC point. So you're no different than those people on Twitter. 1:44:39 You're right, you caught me. You caught me. 1:44:42 Oh my God, you tricked the people into hating you. Bravo! 1:44:45 Thank you. 1:44:47 Oh my God, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled. 1:44:49 I know, the greatest trick. 1:44:51 Was making people... 1:44:53 Hate him on Twitter. 1:44:55 Okay, that's a good, that's the episode title. 1:44:57 The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. 1:45:00 Because people will think it's the usual suspects, but little do they know. 1:45:05 But I almost know, the thing I noticed was that, oh, I think I spit on the mic here. 1:45:10 Oh no, it's not, some scum. 1:45:12 And you say something about Lightning Network and I like how Marty just goes, 1:45:17 yeah, but my Lightning Network node is seeing increase. 1:45:21 And it's like, what the fuck does it have to do with it? 1:45:24 It's like, you're saying that... 1:45:26 I like Marty a lot, but yeah, that was like, I don't know. 1:45:27 I guess I'm like... 1:45:29 What did it have to do with what you were saying? 1:45:31 It's like someone says like, someone got stabbed here and you go like, 1:45:34 yeah, but in my neighborhood, everyone is holding hands and is happy. 1:45:37 It's like, what? 1:45:39 Yeah, the crime rate, for two years, the crime rate has been unacceptably high. 1:45:42 Or whatever. 1:45:44 The levels of pollution or the air quality has been unacceptably low. 1:45:47 Because I was talking about how there's only been a thousand BTC in Lightning Network 1:45:50 and the number has actually shrank. 1:45:52 It's basically flatlined. 1:45:53 But for like two years, two and a half years, maybe. 1:45:56 Maybe, I don't know. 1:45:58 Looking up someone. 1:46:00 But the point is that's not... 1:46:02 A thousand BTC, even at our current prices. 1:46:07 So what is that? 1:46:09 Like $18 million or something? 1:46:11 Check that website. 1:46:13 You keep talking. 1:46:15 I'll look for it. 1:46:17 But I'm just saying that is... 1:46:19 Are we kidding ourselves here? 1:46:21 That's what it is? 1:46:23 $18 million? 1:46:25 Let's look it up so that we can get it right. 1:46:27 Yeah, if you want to click on this thing here. 1:46:30 And this is with Bitcoin at $18,000. 1:46:32 That's at a super high price. 1:46:34 Basically all-time high. 1:46:36 Yeah, you see it here. 1:46:38 If you look here, it is $18 million. 1:46:40 So that's how much it's had. 1:46:42 $18 million. 1:46:44 In the whole network. 1:46:46 That's nothing. 1:46:48 But one second, Paul. 1:46:49 I mean, many Bitcoiners, OG Bitcoiners, 1:46:52 own more Bitcoin than that. 1:46:54 Right, I don't know. 1:46:56 But here's the thing right now. 1:46:58 There is some merit to Marty's point, though. 1:47:01 Because that's what's... 1:47:03 Well, people say it's been improving over time. 1:47:06 No, that's not my point. 1:47:08 My point is that this is how much is in the network. 1:47:10 But you can have a lot of activity 1:47:12 just even with one Bitcoin. 1:47:14 You can have hundreds of millions being moved forward. 1:47:16 That's true. 1:47:17 So I don't think it's just... 1:47:19 I mean, there is some merit to what he said. 1:47:21 That's enough. 1:47:23 Yes, of course, no, there is. 1:47:25 I agree with that. 1:47:27 I agree with you that it's not really the point. 1:47:29 The point is like, these are not the numbers 1:47:31 and this is not the design. 1:47:33 But the bigger point is just that 1:47:35 when people think of Layer 2, 1:47:37 they just think of lightning. 1:47:39 They don't think of all these other things 1:47:41 that they could think of. 1:47:43 You know what I think was really weird 1:47:45 regarding this people get things weird? 1:47:47 I don't know if it's just me. 1:47:49 Sorry, what are you talking about? 1:47:51 BISC? 1:47:53 Yes, BISC. 1:47:55 Yeah, they think that's like a layer of Bitcoin. 1:47:57 And it's like, no, it's not, dude. 1:47:59 They think that what is? 1:48:01 BISC itself, it's a layer. 1:48:03 They think that they are. 1:48:05 Yeah, well, this is the thing is 1:48:07 anything could be a custodian. 1:48:09 The custodial things are not custodial. 1:48:11 They're not custodial, but they're not a layer. 1:48:13 I feel they're just an app that uses Bitcoin. 1:48:15 That's it. 1:48:17 I don't know if that would probably help with that. 1:48:19 But yeah, custodial thing is a fake layer. 1:48:23 And it's also not a layer 1:48:25 if you don't do anything there. 1:48:30 So if it's just like a shelf. 1:48:32 So, but yeah, I don't know. 1:48:35 That could be more. 1:48:37 People should formalize that maybe. 1:48:39 Yeah, I don't even formalize something like this. 1:48:42 Like you can formalize it 1:48:44 if someone disagrees with it. 1:48:45 You know, I like this thing that's Feynman did. 1:48:48 I really like listening to clips of Feynman. 1:48:50 He says these things. 1:48:52 He tells this anecdote when he was going on with his dad. 1:48:54 And he said that you call this bird by its scientific name. 1:48:57 You know, they have weird names. 1:48:59 It doesn't actually tell you anything. 1:49:01 It's like, that's a reference. 1:49:03 It only tells you about what other humans call the bird. 1:49:05 Yeah, but the real knowledge coming, 1:49:07 like understanding what the bird does, 1:49:09 what does it eat and whatever, right? 1:49:11 It's the same thing with this. 1:49:13 It's like, it doesn't even matter 1:49:15 what the bird does. 1:49:17 Oh, yeah, that's true. 1:49:19 But it is relevant because 1:49:21 knowledge is variations. 1:49:23 The contours of your mind map reality. 1:49:26 So what your brain has to, 1:49:28 the difference is when you switch from saying 1:49:30 that's a bird to that's a turtle, 1:49:32 something in the real world has to switch 1:49:34 from being a bird to a turtle. 1:49:36 But this is relevant because I'm talking about 1:49:39 why it is that people talk about layer two. 1:49:42 They talk about lightning, 1:49:43 but they don't talk about chains as much, for example. 1:49:45 Because there's no meme. 1:49:47 Come on, we talked about it. 1:49:49 I know, I agree with you, 1:49:51 but I'm just saying that's why it is more relevant 1:49:53 than just a frivolous label. 1:49:55 There's no meaning. 1:49:57 So you don't care. 1:49:59 I mean, you don't even care about these other points 1:50:01 about like how funny, 1:50:03 I have all these points in here about like how 1:50:05 it's amusing about BCH 1:50:07 and about possibly Greg Maxwell 1:50:09 did all this on purpose 1:50:11 with the whole tax meme that he created, I think. 1:50:13 Greg Maxwell, I think, 1:50:15 is the only person who could be 1:50:17 the same level of interesting 1:50:19 with Mirchapopisk, right? 1:50:21 Really? I don't think so at all. 1:50:23 Mirchapopisk is so interesting. 1:50:25 He's like just completely off the walls crazy. 1:50:27 He is, right? 1:50:29 And he could talk even about, 1:50:31 he has porn on his website and also some genius thing. 1:50:33 No, but Maxwell is like, 1:50:35 you know, you think about something, right? 1:50:37 In Bitcoin and whatever. 1:50:39 And he thought about it in 2010. 1:50:41 You know what I'm trying to say? 1:50:43 Yeah. 1:50:45 I don't know. 1:50:47 Sure. 1:50:48 It's easy for me to be impressed by him. 1:50:50 I'll give you that. 1:50:51 For me, it's easier to get impressed by him. 1:50:53 Well, I think I kind of, 1:50:55 I kind of feel bad for him. 1:50:57 I don't know if that's the phrase, 1:50:59 but he's become such a polarizing figure 1:51:01 that how can you like exist normally? 1:51:03 If I were him, I would have definitely made 1:51:05 alt accounts by now and I would never, 1:51:07 I would stop posting under my real name 1:51:09 because he's become like 1:51:11 high priest of Bitcoin core, 1:51:13 which I think, 1:51:15 I mean, what's worse than that? 1:51:17 That sounds terrible, 1:51:19 but he keeps posting on these places. 1:51:21 I think only recently he got banned 1:51:23 from the RBTC subreddit or something. 1:51:27 Like, I don't know why, you know, 1:51:29 I don't know why he does a lot of the things that he does 1:51:31 the way that he does, 1:51:33 but I guess that's his business. 1:51:35 He's a very peculiar individual just by that 1:51:37 and the way he looks and whatever. 1:51:39 I don't think there are any videos of him, 1:51:41 but it used to be the old ones from 2013 or something. 1:51:43 I'm not sure of doing that. 1:51:45 He clearly liked it. 1:51:47 Yeah, I don't think so. 1:51:49 A lot of people say that, 1:51:51 but I'm suspicious of that. 1:51:53 A lot of people say that. 1:51:55 Dude, he likes to write long things. 1:51:57 I think he's like compelled. 1:51:59 I think he can't stop himself from doing it. 1:52:01 I think he actually gets very upset 1:52:03 when he's doing it. 1:52:05 I think he's almost addicted to it. 1:52:07 I think Twitter and Reddit are, 1:52:09 they're dangerous substances 1:52:11 and they ensnare people 1:52:13 and he's like a cocaine addict 1:52:15 that tells people that it's under control, 1:52:17 but it's really not under control. 1:52:19 He needs it to work. 1:52:22 This is like when, 1:52:24 yeah, people used to say this in Hollywood. 1:52:27 They need it to help concentrate 1:52:29 or whatever. 1:52:31 It's not a big deal. 1:52:33 Everyone's doing it. 1:52:35 That's what they would say. 1:52:37 I think the data point is that 1:52:39 he had to leave Blockstream 1:52:40 for his own health 1:52:44 to take a sabbatical from Bitcoin or something. 1:52:47 Do you know, 1:52:49 I don't have any insight into that. 1:52:51 Do you know why he left Blockstream? 1:52:53 Should we talk about it first of all? 1:52:55 I don't think I should. 1:52:57 I don't know. 1:52:59 I would want to think carefully 1:53:01 about exactly what I heard from whom. 1:53:03 But he did have to, 1:53:05 it wasn't just leaving Blockstream. 1:53:07 He eventually left Blockstream 1:53:08 and actually turned in his 1:53:10 repo access, 1:53:13 which is smart because 1:53:15 who wants to have repo access? 1:53:17 That's like painting a target on your brain. 1:53:19 So that's smart. 1:53:22 But he had to leave. 1:53:25 He sort of dropped out of Bitcoin for a while. 1:53:28 I think he had some kind of breakdown or something. 1:53:31 I just thought what ended up happening 1:53:33 was this guy was doing so much work. 1:53:35 Everyone looks up to him or whatever. 1:53:36 And I think he just got up and was like, 1:53:38 you know what, I'm just going to go on a mountain somewhere 1:53:40 and just chill a bit. 1:53:42 I think that's what I thought happened with him. 1:53:44 Right, but that's what I mean. 1:53:46 I'm saying, well, I don't, you know, 1:53:48 there are a lot of variants of that, 1:53:50 but I don't think that, 1:53:52 see, you were saying he enjoys it. 1:53:54 If I have to bet my whole net worth, 1:53:56 I would bet that he doesn't. 1:53:58 He does. 1:54:00 If you would, you'd probably say he doesn't. 1:54:02 Really? No, but then why go out to the mountain? 1:54:04 We can talk about it, 1:54:06 but I wouldn't bet my whole net worth. 1:54:08 It's a hypothetical question. 1:54:10 No, but I think that he, 1:54:12 no, I think he's addicted to Reddit 1:54:14 and he can't stop 1:54:16 and that it's driving, making him super miserable. 1:54:18 And he's got a lot of people fooled 1:54:20 thinking that he likes it, 1:54:22 but actually he had a total psychotic breakdown 1:54:24 at some point and had to like 1:54:26 check himself into a mental hospital or something. 1:54:28 You know what, like after this, 1:54:30 I literally think we're going to be 1:54:32 the most hated people in Bitcoin. 1:54:34 Like literally the most hated people. 1:54:36 And there's a lot of stuff that I like heard 1:54:38 and I don't, but I have to think about carefully 1:54:40 who I heard it from. 1:54:42 I don't think it's fine to talk about things 1:54:44 we don't know for sure. 1:54:46 Right. 1:54:47 But you hear a little about my point to BCH 1:54:49 now flipping by Litecoin. 1:54:51 Like how funny is that? 1:54:53 It's like, you know what, 1:54:55 it's like someone is telling me 1:54:57 there's this nail race over there. 1:54:59 I'm like, I don't fucking have time for this nail race. 1:55:01 I like that. 1:55:03 I like that you don't. 1:55:04 I, well, I don't know about like, 1:55:06 but I appreciate that. 1:55:08 I certainly understand that 1:55:10 point of view and I think it's bad. 1:55:12 It's for the same reason that Ethereum is bad 1:55:14 for Bitcoin. 1:55:15 It's good to have all these competitors, 1:55:17 but it's very bad for presenting 1:55:20 cryptocurrencies to the world 1:55:22 and for having people 1:55:24 join the crypto. 1:55:27 It's better if there's just one crypto 1:55:29 for people to just, 1:55:31 we don't want these people to like be 1:55:32 afraid of miscoordinating. 1:55:35 And now you're washing your sins with this. 1:55:37 After all these things you said about big blocks, 1:55:39 now you're coming back to the Bitcoin gospel. 1:55:41 No, it's weird though. 1:55:42 I don't understand. 1:55:43 I see my idea. 1:55:44 My ideology is like totally consistent 1:55:46 in my head because I decided to get 1:55:48 all the benefits and everything. 1:55:50 But this is a nuanced point. 1:55:51 It's not, you know, 1:55:53 unity is important. 1:55:55 There's a lot of advantages to 1:55:57 working as a team, 1:55:58 but that doesn't mean that we just 1:56:00 blindly obey the team 1:56:02 and always 1:56:04 quite the reverse. 1:56:05 So there's a complex nuance 1:56:07 to it all, 1:56:08 unfortunately. 1:56:10 Yeah, there's complex nuance to everything else 1:56:12 and limited brain bandwidth. 1:56:14 And that's pretty much what this episode 1:56:16 was about. 1:56:17 Us just saying that in a thousand ways, 1:56:19 right? 1:56:20 Yeah, I know. 1:56:21 Okay, let's just run through it. 1:56:22 Look, Taproot activation. 1:56:23 That's good. 1:56:24 Oh, we should have talked about that. 1:56:25 Everyone is too afraid 1:56:27 of talking about activation. 1:56:29 So the mining pools have just... 1:56:30 Can you please explain Taproot 1:56:32 in a very super like simple way? 1:56:34 Just go for it a bit. 1:56:36 I would be afraid of explaining 1:56:38 it wrong, but I could try. 1:56:39 No, don't try to be rigorous. 1:56:40 Just give it an overview 1:56:42 and then go into it. 1:56:44 Into the other thing. 1:56:47 Okay. 1:56:50 Yeah, it depends a lot on what the 1:56:52 audience already knows, but Taproot 1:56:54 is a way 1:56:56 of... 1:56:58 Oh, God. 1:56:59 Okay. 1:57:00 So there was this thing called Mast 1:57:02 and there was... 1:57:04 I don't know. 1:57:08 Okay. 1:57:10 Taproot is... 1:57:12 Okay, so there's a lot of ideas in a row. 1:57:14 So some of these ideas were like 1:57:16 Bitcoin transactions don't look... 1:57:18 Some of them look different from each 1:57:20 other and some of them stand out. 1:57:23 So can we do something about that? 1:57:25 And when I reveal my... 1:57:26 When I spend my Bitcoin transaction, 1:57:27 everyone will know. 1:57:29 If it's like some weird transaction 1:57:31 where I had to provide a hash 1:57:33 of something and I had to like do 1:57:35 some other thing and it was a multi-sig, 1:57:37 then the whole thing shows up on 1:57:39 chain and everyone knows. 1:57:41 So the idea was, can we hide some of that? 1:57:43 The idea was, okay, we'll hide 1:57:44 everything in Mast, in this thing 1:57:46 called Mast where we'll have a Merkle 1:57:48 tree and all the outcomes with the 1:57:50 conditions will be a little at the 1:57:52 bottom. And so you 1:57:54 will only have to reveal the bare 1:57:56 minimum of the transaction, 1:57:59 which can sometimes make the 1:58:01 transaction bigger, but would 1:58:03 usually make it smaller because 1:58:05 you only have to reveal... 1:58:07 It depends on if there's other 1:58:08 things where, because you have a hash 1:58:10 for each thing. Oh, my God, this 1:58:11 explanation is going to suck. 1:58:13 So there's... 1:58:15 So you can write this thing. 1:58:18 Okay, and then Mast interacts 1:58:21 with Schnorr. 1:58:23 Which is the... 1:58:24 And this is a new signature. 1:58:27 Yeah, this is torture because I'm 1:58:28 trying to imagine if anyone will 1:58:30 understand any of this. 1:58:31 Just keep it as simple as possible. 1:58:33 Okay. 1:58:35 Okay, so what is Taproot? 1:58:37 Taproot is a way of 1:58:41 crunching down complicated 1:58:44 Bitcoin transactions. 1:58:45 So not the ones that you normally 1:58:46 do. 1:58:48 But weird ones into this 1:58:51 thing that looks like a normal 1:58:53 Bitcoin transaction. 1:58:54 There, I get it. 1:58:56 Now I'm going to get angry hate 1:58:57 mail from people who say that 1:58:58 that didn't explain it very 1:59:00 well. 1:59:01 Okay, so now what is this 1:59:03 thing? 1:59:04 But the point of the Taproot is 1:59:05 that this has been the thing that 1:59:06 people have been obsessed with for 1:59:07 a long time. 1:59:09 Also, Schnorr, 1:59:11 which is a cool thing, is bound up 1:59:13 with Taproot without explaining 1:59:14 more about that. 1:59:17 But Schnorr is 1:59:19 a different way of writing a 1:59:21 Bitcoin transaction. 1:59:23 And it has a lot of cool 1:59:25 properties. 1:59:27 One of those is signature 1:59:29 aggregation. 1:59:30 So the Bitcoin 1:59:32 transaction, it's like a check, 1:59:34 but the signature takes up a lot 1:59:36 of space on the check. 1:59:38 A lot. 1:59:39 And so this is like you 1:59:41 can put a lot of checks on the 1:59:42 blockchain and the signatures can 1:59:43 like all overlap at the bottom 1:59:45 and peel them off the check. 1:59:48 So that you can do like operations 1:59:49 between the signatures like in a 1:59:50 mathematical way. 1:59:52 Isn't that also... 1:59:53 That has always been true, but 1:59:54 there's parts of Schnorr that make 1:59:55 that easier. 1:59:57 Oh, so this was possible. 1:59:58 Okay. 1:59:59 It was possible before. 2:00:02 That is how... 2:00:03 What is this called? 2:00:04 What is this property called? 2:00:05 Or these type of properties, 2:00:06 actually? 2:00:07 What is it called? 2:00:08 Composability? 2:00:09 I don't know, so I shouldn't say. 2:00:10 But there is, if you can look up 2:00:11 the Diffie-Hellman 2:00:14 thing and you can look up stealth 2:00:15 addresses and BIP-47 2:00:17 payment codes. 2:00:20 They are tied up in this kind of 2:00:21 thing where... 2:00:22 Anyway, your point was... 2:00:24 Sorry, Taproot. 2:00:25 Okay, so that's the thing. 2:00:26 So the point of Taproot, though, 2:00:27 is that it's the thing that all 2:00:29 the core developers 2:00:32 have been obsessed with. 2:00:34 And it is the new... 2:00:36 It's just a new feature. 2:00:37 Right. 2:00:39 It was what people thought 2:00:41 was interesting 2:00:43 back in the day, like 2017. 2:00:45 So they have these... 2:00:46 The ideas that they like, 2:00:48 Taproot, and then I guess 2:00:49 sig-hash-no-input would be the 2:00:50 next inline. 2:00:52 And then who knows 2:00:54 in the future. 2:00:56 So 2:00:58 there's this idea. 2:01:00 There haven't been any soft forks 2:01:01 since 2:01:03 the SegWit, 2:01:05 which was this whole mess 2:01:07 because that started in October 2:01:09 2016 with miners 2:01:11 blockading SegWit by 2:01:13 signaling for BU 2:01:15 for 9%, which would have meant 2:01:16 that the 95% 2:01:18 threshold for BIP-9 would never 2:01:19 have been reached, resulting 2:01:21 in this giant war 2:01:24 and 2:01:26 resulting ultimately in the 2:01:27 UASF and a lot of cultural 2:01:29 anger. 2:01:30 Right. 2:01:31 And then the point with Taproot 2:01:33 you're trying to make, like this 2:01:34 was the... 2:01:35 So this is the next soft fork. 2:01:36 There have been many soft forks in 2:01:38 the past, many, very many, and 2:01:39 even one or two 2:01:41 hard forks. 2:01:43 Debatable, but depends who you 2:01:44 ask. 2:01:45 It is debatable, but one of them 2:01:46 is not. 2:01:47 When Satoshi added the op-nops, 2:01:49 I don't think anyone debates that. 2:01:50 And when he changed... 2:01:51 Oh, there are so many people that 2:01:52 debate that. 2:01:53 So many. 2:01:54 That was a... 2:01:55 There were no op-nops before. 2:01:56 OK, well, according 2:01:57 to me and many other 2:01:59 smart people who presented 2:02:00 conferences, 2:02:03 there are a few in the past. 2:02:05 There may have even been one... 2:02:06 For the conferences, I just 2:02:08 like that. 2:02:09 There may have been one at... 2:02:12 There may have been one after 2:02:13 Satoshi left, a hard fork. 2:02:14 That is debatable. 2:02:16 Look, listen, anyway... 2:02:17 Anyway, the point is, there used 2:02:18 to be a lot of protocol 2:02:19 improvements. 2:02:20 Bitcoin would improve 2:02:22 in various ways. 2:02:23 Then there was SegWit. 2:02:24 And then there's been nothing for 2:02:25 years. 2:02:26 For years and years. 2:02:27 You know what people on Twitter 2:02:28 are going to say? 2:02:29 That's because the process... 2:02:30 I just get sick out of hearing 2:02:31 this so much. 2:02:32 The protocol has ossified 2:02:34 and things like that. 2:02:35 Which is... 2:02:36 Well, I think it should. 2:02:37 Again, as a sidechain advocate, 2:02:38 I advocate that it be 2:02:40 frozen completely, 2:02:41 intentionally. 2:02:42 So people can do everything... 2:02:43 And that stuff be pushed 2:02:44 on the sidechains. 2:02:46 So I even think that a lot 2:02:47 of the stuff done with SegWit 2:02:49 and all this other stuff 2:02:50 with script versioning 2:02:52 is very ambitious and may lead 2:02:53 to chaos 2:02:55 or just runaway 2:02:58 power trips by insane 2:02:59 developers that 2:03:01 we can't control. 2:03:02 And so... 2:03:03 Yeah, so I'm very 2:03:04 concerned about... 2:03:06 I'm pro-ossification. 2:03:08 Right. 2:03:09 But then everyone wants it 2:03:10 both ways. 2:03:11 So they want what's best. 2:03:12 They want what the elite 2:03:13 core developers want 2:03:14 and they want 2:03:16 ossification. 2:03:17 So... 2:03:18 But the point is they want 2:03:19 this taproot thing 2:03:20 but everyone's been afraid 2:03:21 for all these reasons. 2:03:22 Everyone's been afraid 2:03:23 to talk about activation. 2:03:24 So now the pools 2:03:25 have just decided 2:03:26 that they're going to 2:03:27 just start signaling for 2:03:29 the activation anyway 2:03:30 that they wanted. 2:03:31 So, which I approve. 2:03:32 I think that's... 2:03:33 This is a good idea. 2:03:34 There's been this horrible 2:03:36 stalemate the whole time. 2:03:37 Everyone has been afraid 2:03:38 to even speak. 2:03:42 People might think 2:03:43 I'm making this up. 2:03:44 People are afraid 2:03:45 to even speak 2:03:46 about activation. 2:03:47 There was an activation 2:03:49 telegram group. 2:03:51 People just would stop 2:03:52 talking for months. 2:03:53 The whole point of it 2:03:54 was to talk about 2:03:55 activation. 2:03:56 People just can't. 2:03:58 They would just be afraid. 2:03:59 A lot of people in the group. 2:04:01 And... 2:04:03 Now, finally, 2:04:04 there's been action. 2:04:05 So I like... 2:04:07 You know... 2:04:08 Yeah, I'm like... 2:04:09 This is like a science thing. 2:04:10 I like there to be 2:04:11 tests, 2:04:12 thumbs up, 2:04:13 thumbs down, 2:04:14 results, 2:04:15 progress. 2:04:16 If something doesn't work, 2:04:17 we refine it. 2:04:18 So I was always like, 2:04:19 we should do it with BIP-9 2:04:20 and if BIP-9 doesn't work, 2:04:21 then just do something else. 2:04:22 But instead, everyone was like, 2:04:23 we have to wait. 2:04:24 I have a few questions. 2:04:25 There's some things I don't know 2:04:26 how it would work. 2:04:27 So let's say 2:04:28 this is going to get activated. 2:04:29 Like, 2:04:30 how would... 2:04:31 What are ways for this 2:04:32 to get activated? 2:04:33 So let's say right now, 2:04:34 there's a new version 2:04:35 of Bitcoin Core 2:04:36 that has this thing on, right? 2:04:37 I download it 2:04:38 and I run it, right? 2:04:39 And then when I do this, 2:04:40 it's the same as 2:04:41 like the SigWit thing, right? 2:04:42 It's hidden in there, 2:04:43 but it doesn't turn on 2:04:44 until the network 2:04:45 activates it. 2:04:46 Oh, so this... 2:04:47 So I need to download 2:04:48 a new software 2:04:49 and there's this threshold 2:04:50 and ever since then, 2:04:51 I'm going to... 2:04:52 The transaction I make 2:04:53 from then on, 2:04:54 if I wish so, 2:04:55 I would imagine, right? 2:04:56 There's going to be 2:04:57 this different type 2:04:58 of whatever thing. 2:04:59 And is this also 2:05:00 actually going to have 2:05:01 this NOR thing 2:05:02 or not necessarily? 2:05:03 That's a good question. I don't want to say it because I don't know, but it enables Schnorr, so I don't see, because I don't know what you meant, because about every transaction I meant, that every transaction I make in the future, that made me nervous. 2:05:13 I'm sorry. I just don't know what you mean by that. 2:05:14 I saw. So from that point on... 2:05:17 But you could make transactions with Schnorr after Tapper is activated. 2:05:21 That's what I meant by that. That's what I wanted to ask. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So when you say this, when you say this, when you say this, 2:05:30 what was the BIP-9 thing, though? What does that have to do with it? 2:05:32 BIP-9 is how everything... That's not true at all. I shouldn't even say that. But mostly, soft forks are activated with BIP-9, which is that the miners wait. 2:05:43 It's very important that everyone activates at the same time. So they have these two windows, these two-week windows during the difficulty adjustments. 2:05:50 And you can signal in them, if you set a little bit in the version of the block that says whether or not you are ready to activate the new thing, whatever it is. 2:06:05 And you keep an average, you keep a count of what happened. And if the count reaches 95%, then there's a two-week grace period. 2:06:14 I may not understand, actually, all the grace periods and things, but I think I'm saying this right. There's the two-week grace period. And then right after that, and it may not be specified. I think it's probably specified in blocks and not in actual weeks. 2:06:28 100% is in blocks. 2:06:29 Most people don't know. Most people don't know how to convert blocks to time, maybe. So I'll just say it in time. So if two weeks... Obviously, the signaling is in blocks, but I don't know about the grace period. 2:06:43 But I think it's, again, another 2016 blocks, grace period. And then from then on, it's mandatory to enforce those rules. And if you don't enforce them, the block is considered invalid. 2:06:55 And so the point of BIP-9 was just... There was never anything about controversy with BIP-9. BIP-9 was just this mechanism for making sure that everyone had had time to upgrade. 2:07:09 Because you can't call up people on the phone and ask them, because it's Bitcoin. You don't know what's going on. You don't know who owns what. So they need some way. So that was a simple thing. 2:07:23 And everything is... Most everything is activated with BIP-9, including SegWit, which actually did not activate by the UASF. I mean, causality is difficult to determine. 2:07:32 The UASF obviously did cause it to activate, but what happened was the miners gave up right before the UASF would have forced them to signal, and they voluntarily signaled in the period right before. 2:07:44 So it technically activated by BIP-9, but it's obviously that the SegWit threat induced them to do that. 2:07:56 But the question is, like, this is just a signaling thing. And it seems like you could say, like, as a miner, you could put this flag, we can wave it, but it could be something else. 2:08:05 So it is just like a... It's just something you say. It's not something like... 2:08:10 Yes, this is what's called cheap talk in game theory. 2:08:14 Yeah, exactly. 2:08:15 It doesn't actually mean anything. But the point was, it didn't matter, because in the past, there was no controversy. There was no reason for it. No one wanted to miscoordinate. Do you understand? 2:08:25 All of them wanted to know, accurately, how many people were ready to activate. Do you understand what hash rate was? 2:08:39 So there was no reason for anyone to deceive anyone, and there was no reason to signal other than in a way that you honestly was your honest state. 2:08:51 So there was no reason to lie in the past, because there was no controversy. 2:08:54 It's the same thing when you're a kid, like, there's no reason to lie and deceive and whatever. But as soon as you get older, you find out... 2:08:59 Well, when you're a kid, yeah, because you want to get more cookies. 2:09:02 It's the same thing with this thing. When Bitcoin was young, yeah, sure, there was no reason to lie. 2:09:06 Yeah, sure. Something like that. Yeah, something like that. Sure. But there was no... At some point, miners adopted the belief that if they withheld SegWit, they could convince core developers against their will to give them some block size increase. 2:09:21 It's a bit more complex what happened. 2:09:23 It is more complex than that. 2:09:24 I don't think the miners... I think there were a lot of people who were mining and couldn't understand the implications of their actions. But there was someone who ended up lobbying something to them. And they saw it as a business decision. And it didn't understood like what that happened. And I think that's what happened with a lot of miners. 2:09:39 Yeah, well, then something happened where the process was changed into a kind of... It became like SegWit was set up to activate this way. And so the miner said, we will withhold the signal. 2:09:55 Yeah. 2:09:56 And so then, then the UASF was born because people are like, well, we'll activate it a different way. 2:10:02 Yeah. 2:10:02 So that was such a giant mess that no one ever wants to even talk about activation. But now the point is that a new strategy has emerged. Mining pool based signaling. 2:10:15 But that's the thing, because all the nice people agree on this, right? There's not like anything. There's no bad guy associated with this. So that's why it's easier right now. Yeah. 2:10:27 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, honestly, I really think that most people probably have no clue. Anything about Taproot at all, especially the people on Twitter who are will be cheering for it to activate. You probably know nothing about it at all. 2:10:38 Did you notice how... I couldn't say I fucking know exactly what it is, right? But anyway, did you notice how many people have like that Taproot in their name or like... 2:10:45 Yeah, and they probably know nothing about Taproot at all. 2:10:47 Some of them do. I know some of them who definitely I think they do. 2:10:51 Probably what Bitcoin Core should do is sneak out a release or some memed thing that has something just truly horrible in it, just to see what kind of reaction it gets. 2:11:06 If they all say, if like Greg Maxwell says, whatever is the next thing, yellow shirt is the next big thing. And it's the best thing for Bitcoin, just to see what the Twitter reaction is. 2:11:17 And then later on they say, okay, we were lying that it would actually cause inflation. That would cause the network to explode. 2:11:24 I like how you always have these disastrous plans for Core. Like if you were to be the chief whatever of Core, it would be awful. You'd add all kinds of like hash calculators for no reason. 2:11:35 It would be crazy. 2:11:36 You just meme for the sake of memeing to see that people actually... 2:11:41 No, that's not memeing for the sake of memeing at all. 2:11:43 You are. You're just to prove people are stupid. Anyway, what else do we have here? What else? 2:11:48 No one cares about any of these things. We actually got through a lot of it. 2:11:53 The Tavri one, I think is, that's what I decided we should start with because it was a really interesting thing to talk about. 2:11:59 That's something to do with Bitcoin? 2:12:01 No, but it was just like a very relevant thing, like super, super relevant. 2:12:05 Well, it's weird. It's an interesting thing that even to, because there are contradictions in the cultural position, right? 2:12:12 Like Bitcoin is preordained for victory, but we need to upgrade to the latest technology that the Core developing team has put out or something. 2:12:23 I don't know exactly how to phrase it, but there's this tension between the idea that... 2:12:29 I don't know, like some people say Bitcoin has the best technology, it's the best code because the developers are the best. 2:12:35 Some people say Bitcoin is the best because it is ossified or because it is the hardest to change. 2:12:44 And then people say other things. So sometimes there's conflict in between. 2:12:50 And now with Taproot, it's like, you know, what do we do? 2:12:56 Because we have a new thing. And then people say miners suck and they've always been trying to kill Bitcoin. 2:13:02 And it's like, well, what do we do? 2:13:04 Yeah, I mean, I think the reason, again, people are pretty much okay. They just don't like hardforks. That's the thing. 2:13:11 Yeah, I don't like them. 2:13:13 Anyway, you notice there was this guy who posted on Twitter and Maxwell responded to this, by the way, your buddy. 2:13:19 It says that he spin up an Amazon web server, right thing for their whatever, to use a node. 2:13:25 And Amazon web server, there's like some templates, you can like template VM that has a node and everything and people make them up. 2:13:33 And this guy, apparently the image was malicious and he lost 2.99 Bitcoin. 2:13:39 Oh, yeah. 2:13:41 That's kind of a weird one. 2:13:43 That's interesting. That is crazy. Sophisticated attacks are coming on Bitcoin. 2:13:47 So not your machine, not your Bitcoin. I don't know. 2:13:51 Not your rack, not your Bitcoin. 2:13:53 Not your rack, not your Bitcoin. Not your coin. Let's make it short. 2:13:57 Yeah. 2:13:59 Not your rack, not your coin. 2:14:01 But the point is that if you look on a people's website, they have like VMs for anything you can imagine for Jupyter or whatever, notebooks for anything you can imagine. 2:14:07 Oh, of course. Yeah. Like I do that stuff. That's so convenient. I do that stuff all the time. 2:14:11 But here's the thing, they don't have an SSL certificate. That's what I think was funny. 2:14:15 So if you would have just clicked on their website, you would have been like, God damn it, these guys don't have... 2:14:19 They couldn't like get a Let's Encrypt certificate. 2:14:21 They couldn't even get one. 2:14:23 You know what I'm trying to say. 2:14:25 That's funny. 2:14:27 I couldn't do anything for that. 2:14:29 The Let's Encrypt one. Yeah. 2:14:31 Because they don't check anything, right? 2:14:33 No, you just have to verify. 2:14:35 Can we explain this? Should we explain what we're talking about to the poor people? 2:14:37 Let me try to explain this one because it's something... 2:14:39 You know, when you go to HTTPS... 2:14:41 Yeah. 2:14:43 No, go for it. 2:14:45 You do do it. 2:14:47 I was going to say that when you see that lock there in the front of the thing, it says that whatever you're communicating with the website is encrypted. 2:14:53 And in order to do this, you need some certificates, which is... 2:14:57 You just need a certificate, which is this thing that encrypts... 2:15:01 It's kind of like... 2:15:03 Okay. 2:15:05 When you register a domain, you have to buy it from somewhere like GoDaddy or Namecheap or something. 2:15:09 And then you can also buy this other thing. 2:15:11 But you don't have to buy it. 2:15:13 But most people do. 2:15:15 And then it gives you a key pair, like with Bitcoin. 2:15:17 And it lets you... 2:15:19 It lets other people decode the encrypted version of the site. 2:15:23 And so then it lets you pass notes back and forth. 2:15:27 That doesn't clarify anything. 2:15:29 I know. It doesn't clarify it at all. 2:15:31 The point is that you get a certificate, which is used to encrypt data between you and whatever. 2:15:33 And some of these certificates, you need to make sure that's a valid one, right? 2:15:37 Like if you go on blockchain.info, I remember they had one. 2:15:39 And you click on their name. 2:15:41 It says the name of their company. 2:15:43 So there's some entity that makes sure that these certificates belong to these companies. 2:15:47 Because again, that proves it's not a malicious website. 2:15:49 It's kind of like an auditor. 2:15:51 You hire them to check up on the site to make sure that... 2:15:55 Before they give them the blockchain.info certificate, it really is blockchain.info LLC. 2:16:01 And yeah, sometimes it does cost a lot of money. 2:16:03 But the point is that there was this initiative, Let's Encrypt, which allows you to do these things in a free open source way. 2:16:09 And the only thing you would do, you would put something on your website to prove that... 2:16:13 I guess it was just spam proof at the end of the day, right? 2:16:15 Or just to prove you won the certificate. 2:16:17 And they would just make one for you. 2:16:19 And it looked okay. 2:16:21 And you would get this lock. 2:16:23 So it's a really minimum effort to do there. 2:16:25 And these guys that created VMs for other people, especially Bitcoin nodes, they didn't even want to do that. 2:16:31 They didn't even do that, which is, it is free. 2:16:33 Yeah, it is free, exactly. 2:16:35 It's 100% free. 2:16:37 I've done it a few times. 2:16:39 Two times, actually. 2:16:41 It's super simple. 2:16:43 I've only ever needed one, and I did buy mine for like $5 a year. 2:16:45 What do you have on Truthcoin? 2:16:47 What? Truthcoin has one. 2:16:49 Yeah, there's a Truthcoin one. 2:16:51 That's why I did it. 2:16:53 But for mostly, Truthcoin is the GitHub hosted. 2:16:55 But if you go to forum.Truthcoin.com, which is ancient. 2:16:59 forum.Truthcoin.info.com. 2:17:01 It's expired. 2:17:03 It's really expired? 2:17:05 Yeah, forum.Truthcoin.info, there's no, like, it's expired. 2:17:07 No, actually, just click on a link. 2:17:09 I think it's just based on, the redirect is weird. 2:17:11 Oh, it's not the HTTPS? 2:17:13 Just click on any link on the site. 2:17:15 Wait, I just went, yeah. 2:17:17 I just think the redirect is weird. 2:17:19 No, the redirect doesn't work, you're right. 2:17:21 Yeah, yeah. 2:17:23 But if you click on any link, it redirects you fine, and then you're okay forever. 2:17:25 Right. 2:17:27 But if you just typed in, like, do you know how to fix that? 2:17:29 Honestly, I don't even know. 2:17:31 I don't know. 2:17:33 Every single site works, but if you type it in the first time, 2:17:35 but then it doesn't matter, because if you try to log in or do anything, 2:17:37 it will take you to the HTTPS. 2:17:39 I don't know, can't you just fucking put a hyperlink that says HTTPS there? 2:17:41 Like, I don't know what else to say to that. 2:17:43 I don't know what the problem is, 2:17:45 because, honestly, 2:17:47 all this stuff is pretty confusing. 2:17:49 And I don't know anything about this. 2:17:51 I don't know. 2:17:53 Web servers. 2:17:55 The last activity was in 2016 on this forum. 2:17:57 I don't know if I even keep it up. 2:17:59 Yeah, yeah, I keep it up. 2:18:01 Because there's a lot of great stuff on here. 2:18:03 I also locked it. 2:18:05 I locked it for new users, because there's, like, 2:18:07 tiresome to moderate the spam and stuff. 2:18:09 So it's for... 2:18:11 But maybe I'll reopen it sometime. 2:18:13 There you go. 2:18:15 All right, show that shit. 2:18:17 I was trying to look here. 2:18:19 All right, is there anything else we have here in those things? 2:18:21 Let's just go here. 2:18:23 It was a long show, by the way. 2:18:25 This was a really long show. 2:18:27 All right, we should probably wrap it up then. 2:18:29 I wonder if anyone will like it at all. 2:18:31 Yeah, well, I don't know. 2:18:33 We don't have a thing for the end, so... 2:18:35 Okay, so happy Bitcoin Day, everyone. 2:18:37 So until next time, 2:18:39 go and do all the drugs, 2:18:41 fuck all the hookers, 2:18:43 get into trouble, 2:18:45 sling dick like motherfuckers, all right? 2:18:47 And be as outrageous as you can, 2:18:49 and sell all your coins, 2:18:51 and go trade, 2:18:53 and just be the most awful human being you can. 2:18:55 And keep slinging dick. 2:18:57 Okay, that's good. 2:18:59 Yeah, I like that. 2:19:01 All right, let me stop the recording.
