1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400
Ever since the block size war, really, in 2017, it kind of started to derail.

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:11,800
Anyone who was putting a little bit of thought into what they were trying to say was
being outmaneuvered by raw Bitcoin maximalism.

3
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,200
So I think that is evolved into something really, really counterproductive and
distracting.

4
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,200
Paul, how are you? There's a lot going on.

5
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,200
I'm doing great. There is a lot going on.

6
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,200
Are you doing great? I feel like the entire community is basically in mourning right
now.

7
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:32,400
It's funny you say that because it is terrible. I think that people are in mourning.

8
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,400
But this NVK, he was a big hater of mine, and a lot of his friends are all haters as
well.

9
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:44,400
And it seems like all of Paul Sztorc's haters got into a big club and now all of
their Bitcoin was deleted.

10
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,400
They're all being discredited one by one.

11
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,400
I was kind of like, oh, it's a sign from God.

12
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,400
Why was NVK? Because why was he a hater of yours?

13
00:00:53,600 --> 00:01:01,600
I don't know. I think what happens is people riff off of the maxi talking points.

14
00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,600
So this is the Geeks, Mops, and Sociopaths article that people should read.

15
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,600
I think they show up and they say, oh, shitcoining is bad, blah, blah, blah.

16
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:18,600
Because BIP300 sometimes looks like shitcoining because it says, oh, we'll take the
privacy from Zcash or we'll take EVM from Ethereum.

17
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:26,800
So it looks like we're giving some credit to those projects, even though it's about
stealing their ideas and bringing them to BTC, which was originally the whole point
of everything.

18
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,800
So I think he kind of got caught in that.

19
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,800
I don't even think he really thought about it that much.

20
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,800
But there is a strain of anti-BIP300.

21
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:41,800
There's an anti-BIP300 faction that says, like, we don't even need to take Zcash
privacy because it's all about hard money.

22
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:42,800
It's all about 21.

23
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,800
Right. No other use cases matter.

24
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:45,800
Right.

25
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,000
I feel like that's part of the security marketing.

26
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,000
This is a term that I learned from a close mutual friend who I won't dox.

27
00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:05,000
But there's a lot of, I think, some under-the-table discussion, I think, right now
about the fact that Cold Card was sort of acting like we're the most badass, secure,
whatever.

28
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,000
But then in the back end, they had two people with the most rinky-dink code you've
ever seen in your life.

29
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:23,200
And the whole purpose of the weird commit history and the weird commit, it was
itself sort of cursed because the whole reason they even did that was to get out of
the open source license.

30
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,200
So otherwise, they would never have touched it at all, I think.

31
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,200
I don't want to speculate too much.

32
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,200
But it seems obvious to me that if they had just kept with the Trezor, they sort of
started.

33
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,400
There was this open source.

34
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,400
I'm not sure how familiar people are with this.

35
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:43,400
But there was this open source hardware wallet technology that everyone used,
everyone contributed to, everyone took.

36
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,400
That was heavily reviewed.

37
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,400
And there's never been any problems with.

38
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:48,400
Right.

39
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,400
And then he, NVK, and Cold Card used that.

40
00:02:51,400 --> 00:03:01,400
And then there was a different company, Foundation, and a couple others, actually,
maybe that they wanted to use NVK's Cold Card.

41
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,600
They wanted to use the Cold Card branch of it.

42
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,600
And then they were like, oh, they're stealing, they're copying, it's a copycat,
blah, blah, blah.

43
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,600
They complained.

44
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,600
And so then they changed.

45
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,600
They had to change their code a little bit to get out of the open source license.

46
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,600
And that's when the error was introduced.

47
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:18,600
Right.

48
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,600
And they'll say that, oh, it's still open source because it's still source available
and blah, blah, blah.

49
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,600
It turns out in practice, it mattered a very big deal because just changing it at
all ruined it.

50
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,600
Source available.

51
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,600
This is, I think, another conversation.

52
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,800
I had never heard this phrase in my entire life until they invented it.

53
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,800
They were like, well, you can still look at the source and make sure that it's
secure.

54
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,800
What's the incentive to look at the source if people can't build on it?

55
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,800
The funny thing is, apparently, some people did look in.

56
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:43,800
Well, yeah, I agree.

57
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,800
Many people raised that exact point.

58
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,800
And, of course, a couple people did look at it and they said it was insecure.

59
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,800
And then, of course, this code was there the whole time.

60
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,800
It happened to be insecure.

61
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,800
Just changing it at all introduced the bug.

62
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,000
So in one sense, everyone is mourning, as you said at the beginning.

63
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,000
But in another sense, it's like a big pylon, of course.

64
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,000
We have this from time to time.

65
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,000
Occasionally.

66
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,000
Social media is just like, well, you leave open source and then you're cursed.

67
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,000
I mean, especially when it's like a hero.

68
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,000
You know, when the heroes fall.

69
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,000
I mean, this was the most badass hardware wallet in Bitcoin.

70
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,000
He threw his personality around quite a bit, too, which is obviously pretty common.

71
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,200
But still, it was just like he was like, oh, yeah.

72
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:29,200
He kind of made it seem like he had it all figured out and it was so easy.

73
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,200
And everyone else is a scammer, of course.

74
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,200
So there's extra layers of irony.

75
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,200
So I'm not shedding really too much of a tear over that.

76
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,200
And I was shocked to find the sheer number of terrible people

77
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,200
who had either endorsed the cold card or were advertising with it or whatever

78
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,400
and were just kind of talking about it in a relatively normal way.

79
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,400
There's just a huge number of people who were very tied in with it.

80
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,400
And I just thought, well, they're all discredited now somewhat.

81
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,400
You texted me earlier and I think you said the phrase that you used was

82
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,400
is this like the last nail in the coffin of quote unquote Bitcoin maximalism?

83
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:10,400
Well, yeah, maybe.

84
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,400
Is it because it's like a maxi hero has fallen?

85
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,400
And we've had a series of maxi heroes who have fallen.

86
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,400
I would put Luke also in that category.

87
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,600
Michael Saylor, now that he's selling and then he's sort of up on stage saying

88
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,600
like, well, I never said he's tweeting out like he's like,

89
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,600
I never said, well, I'm still not keeping all mine Bitcoin.

90
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,600
But the company, I never said the company would sell it.

91
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,600
It's kind of like now everyone is kind of saying how much attention

92
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,600
do we want to give to these people?

93
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,600
They're not even consistent with their own stuff.

94
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,600
They said, you know, relatively recently.

95
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,600
So how do you feel about that?

96
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,600
Do you feel like this is like, do you think that like the general trend

97
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,800
of Bitcoin maximalism being kind of questioned right now is positive or negative?

98
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,800
Very positive, because it is really lost its way, like really a long time

99
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,800
ever since the block size war, really, in 2017, it kind of started to derail.

100
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,800
And it probably by 2019, it had completely derailed,

101
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,800
where it just become something where there's no tolerance of dissent.

102
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,800
It became a sort of totalitarian.

103
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,800
It was like, oh, you have to eat meat and you have to whatever.

104
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,800
You can't wear sunscreen and et cetera, stuff like that.

105
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,000
I feel like critical thinking like somehow became a problem.

106
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,000
And we elevated people who were very good at kind of playing the game.

107
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,000
You know, they were like, oh, this is these people like NVK,

108
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,000
but people like Samson Mao, people like Michael Saylor.

109
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,000
They're just they're very good at hopping on and saying,

110
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,000
oh, yeah, all these, you know, Bitcoin is the best.

111
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,000
Shit coins are terrible.

112
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,200
Whatever.

113
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,200
No nuance, no like subtle distinctions between things.

114
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,200
And they were the best at just seizing on the cheap talking points.

115
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,200
And then they became elevated.

116
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,200
And then people who had anything, there's like a little more thoughtful.

117
00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:02,200
Even people like, you know, like Jeremy Rubin or even like Robin Linus

118
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,200
or we could go down the list.

119
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,200
Like there's a long list, like even like a Nick Carter or something like that.

120
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,400
You could go as far as saying like anyone who was putting

121
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,400
a little bit of thought into what they were trying to say

122
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,400
was being outmaneuvered by these simpletons

123
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,400
who were just saying like, you know, raw Bitcoin maximalism.

124
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,400
So I think that is evolved into something really,

125
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,400
really counterproductive and distracting.

126
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,400
I mean, I think it would benefit people like Jeremy Rubin or Robin Linus

127
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,400
or people who are like kind of doing something interesting

128
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,600
to, you know, have influence from some other ecosystem

129
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,600
or new technology or be introducing new use cases, etc.

130
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:42,600
Right?

131
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,600
Well, yes, of course.

132
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,600
If you're actually smart and you do something complicated,

133
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,600
you need to live in a world where that can tell the difference

134
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,600
between a smart idea and a bad idea.

135
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:53,600
Right?

136
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,600
Because if people can't, then it doesn't add any value.

137
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,600
Right?

138
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:57,600
So then what's the...

139
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,600
If it's really true, if Michael Saylor is right,

140
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,600
that Bitcoin is perfect and that we don't need developers

141
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,800
or we don't need any new ideas...

142
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,800
By the way, of course, he contradicts himself all the time,

143
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,800
you know, especially with quantum and things

144
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:13,800
where he'll just...

145
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:14,800
Someone will ask about quantum, they'll say,

146
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,800
well, there will be a fix and it will be...

147
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,800
You're talking about Saylor right now.

148
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:20,800
Yeah, right.

149
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,800
But he represents this ideology that...

150
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:24,800
The ossification ideology.

151
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,800
And the idea that Bitcoin is already perfect

152
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,800
and kind of pristine and unimprovable

153
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,000
and the idea that it doesn't even need like...

154
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,000
It doesn't even need people paying attention to it.

155
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,000
Which is now you can compare that to maybe like Rob

156
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,000
or something who was saying like,

157
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,000
we have been red teaming Bitcoin.

158
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000
It's like, we have found like a million...

159
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000
You know, he's like raising everyone's blood pressure.

160
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,000
Oh, God.

161
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000
Where people are saying thanks to Chinese AI,

162
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,000
you know, there are maybe all these problems

163
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000
in different projects.

164
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,000
They were saying...

165
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,000
He was saying like,

166
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,000
we found one new vulnerability per hour or something.

167
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,200
So it'll be a very interesting...

168
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,200
I don't know exactly what that was referring to specifically,

169
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,200
but it will be a very interesting year

170
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,200
for software development.

171
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,200
It'd be very interesting to hear

172
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:10,200
about like what's going to happen

173
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,200
in the next Bitcoin Core release.

174
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,200
Because sometimes when there's critical vulnerabilities,

175
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,200
they have to like hide them in the...

176
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,200
They have to sneak them in.

177
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,200
A new way to multiply two matrices or something.

178
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,200
And then it's like snuck in there is like the thing

179
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,200
and they tell everyone,

180
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,200
please upgrade to 32 quickly.

181
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,200
Secretly, they tell like...

182
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,400
So yeah, this whole CVE thing is quite funny.

183
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,400
Of course, according to Michael Saylor,

184
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,400
we don't need any of this.

185
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,400
So according to genius Michael Saylor,

186
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,400
who knows everything.

187
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,400
Oh, gosh.

188
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,400
He's just like, none of this matters.

189
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,400
Do you think, speaking of, you know, bug fixes,

190
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,400
do you think the great consensus cleanup

191
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:42,400
will be like, you know,

192
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,400
will restore our faith in the software process?

193
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,400
Well, I don't know if people want to have faith

194
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:49,400
in the software process.

195
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,400
So that's my concern is that

196
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,400
can we even pull that off?

197
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,400
So I hope so.

198
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,600
To me, the soft fork is this really,

199
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:57,600
really good idea.

200
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,600
You and I have discussed this before.

201
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,600
Soft fork is a very good idea.

202
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,600
The fact that we aren't doing it,

203
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,600
I think kind of proves

204
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,600
how screwed we might be, actually.

205
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,600
That's like a big part of my concern for Bitcoin.

206
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,600
So, you know,

207
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,600
I can give you like maybe an analogy,

208
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,600
like we have like all these...

209
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,600
Maybe you have all these birds around a tree,

210
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:17,600
you know,

211
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:18,600
and they're trying to get up into the tree

212
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:19,600
because there's delicious seeds

213
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:20,600
or whatever birds eat.

214
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,600
You know, there's something up in the tree there,

215
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:23,600
you know.

216
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:24,800
And they say,

217
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:25,800
well, we can do it.

218
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:26,800
We can get around.

219
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:27,800
We can get around town

220
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:28,800
without using our wings,

221
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,800
you know, without flying.

222
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:30,800
We can just walk around.

223
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:31,800
We can just walk up the tree.

224
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,800
But that's what everyone's saying now.

225
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:33,800
And they say it as if

226
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:34,800
it's some really impressive thing,

227
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:35,800
which it kind of is, right?

228
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,800
If you could see like...

229
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,800
I mean, like birds walking around

230
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,800
to get food is a feat of engineering.

231
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,800
And like they claw their way up the tree

232
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,800
using only the muscles in their legs.

233
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,800
But everyone's talking about this

234
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,800
as if it's like such a cool thing.

235
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:51,800
Like, wow,

236
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:52,800
we can do this without...

237
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,000
And I'm just thinking,

238
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,000
like, no,

239
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000
the fact that we're even talking about this,

240
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000
you know,

241
00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,000
like we've got to find

242
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,000
a different group of birds

243
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,000
to hang out with.

244
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000
This is a bizarre analogy,

245
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,000
I realize,

246
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,000
but it's,

247
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,000
you know what I mean?

248
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,000
It's like,

249
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,000
what are you guys talking about?

250
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000
So we need to get that faith

251
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,000
in the soft fork back somehow.

252
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,000
Everyone should already want...

253
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000
You know what I mean?

254
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,000
I'm concerned.

255
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000
Why isn't it a higher priority?

256
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,000
People need to want to have it back.

257
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,000
I think we established...

258
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,000
Didn't we establish

259
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,000
that the reason you're hard forking

260
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,200
is it's like performance art

261
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,200
to help people understand

262
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,200
that they've destroyed soft forks

263
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:27,200
and that's a problem

264
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,200
and now you're putting people

265
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,200
in a position

266
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,200
where they have to hard fork.

267
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:31,200
I think certainly,

268
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,200
in part,

269
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,200
that's why.

270
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,200
Because, of course,

271
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,200
this is...

272
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,200
I have the BIP-300

273
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,200
as a soft fork,

274
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,200
which we sort of can't get

275
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,200
because we can't do any soft forks.

276
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,200
So,

277
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,200
but it's more than just,

278
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:43,200
you know,

279
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,200
my soft fork

280
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,200
isn't making it across.

281
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,200
It's like,

282
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:47,200
you know,

283
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,200
it's like I have like...

284
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,200
Instead of wings,

285
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,200
we have like a jet engine

286
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,200
for this aircraft.

287
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,400
We've just decided

288
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:53,400
that we don't want to do...

289
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:55,400
It's like you've reached

290
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:56,400
some kind of civilization

291
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,400
and they're like,

292
00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,400
yeah,

293
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:00,400
we used to have computers

294
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:01,400
and we used to have Wi-Fi

295
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:02,400
and we used to have running water.

296
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,400
We just like smashed

297
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,400
all that stuff to pieces.

298
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:05,400
We don't really want...

299
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,400
Yeah,

300
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:07,400
but don't people...

301
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:08,400
Don't people suffer?

302
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,400
Don't people struggle

303
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:10,400
to get around with their famines?

304
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:11,400
You know,

305
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:12,400
don't your children die

306
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,400
of like disease?

307
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,400
Don't you need antibiotics?

308
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,400
Don't people like

309
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,400
suffer in misery

310
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:17,400
and ignorance

311
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:18,400
and fear?

312
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,400
What about the little

313
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,400
store of values?

314
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:21,600
Don't people need

315
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:22,600
any of that

316
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:23,600
objectively useful stuff?

317
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:24,600
What about the

318
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:25,600
store of value maxis

319
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:26,600
though,

320
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:27,600
who are like,

321
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:28,600
it just doesn't matter?

322
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,600
Like it's just like

323
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:30,600
a store of value

324
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:31,600
that can be held

325
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:32,600
in ETFs by BlackRock

326
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:33,600
and like we don't need

327
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,600
like this other utility?

328
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:35,600
Like we don't need

329
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:36,600
all these like

330
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,600
fancy payments protocols

331
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:38,600
and things like that?

332
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:39,600
Well,

333
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:40,600
you know,

334
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:41,600
here's...

335
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,600
If they could be...

336
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:43,600
First of all,

337
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:44,600
they're absolutely wrong,

338
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,600
but even if they,

339
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:46,600
you know,

340
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,600
they could be right,

341
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:48,600
they could be wrong.

342
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:49,600
It's kind of like

343
00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:50,800
you can't be harmed

344
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:51,800
in any way

345
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:52,800
by an optional

346
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:53,800
opt-in

347
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:54,800
soft fork

348
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:55,800
or an optional

349
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:56,800
opt-in

350
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:57,800
layer two

351
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,800
or just

352
00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,800
people

353
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:00,800
like doing

354
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:01,800
checking the code base

355
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:02,800
for CVEs,

356
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:03,800
critical vulnerabilities.

357
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:04,800
You know,

358
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:05,800
how is any of that

359
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,800
harmed?

360
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:07,800
Where's the store

361
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:08,800
of value

362
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:09,800
being harmed?

363
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:10,800
You know,

364
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:11,800
who's the victim here?

365
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:12,800
It's a victimless crime.

366
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:13,800
I guess,

367
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,800
yeah.

368
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:15,800
Do you think that

369
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,800
there's any legitimacy

370
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:17,800
to the MEV concerns

371
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:18,800
around layer twos?

372
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,000
Certainly not

373
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000
for

374
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,000
drive chain

375
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000
because of

376
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,000
301

377
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,000
blind merge mining.

378
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,000
All of the value

379
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,000
added to the block

380
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,000
is paid

381
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,000
on L1

382
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,000
including the

383
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,000
intangible

384
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000
MEV

385
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000
value.

386
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,000
This is the key feature.

387
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,000
So it's all

388
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,000
de-MEVed

389
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000
anyway.

390
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,000
But I never thought

391
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,000
it made any sense

392
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
and if you talk

393
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,000
to the people

394
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000
who are

395
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000
banging the drum

396
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000
about this,

397
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,000
they end up

398
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,000
telling you

399
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,000
the most ridiculous

400
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,000
nonsense possible.

401
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,200
It ends up being stuff

402
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,200
like

403
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,200
layer one

404
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,200
transaction fees

405
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:53,200
going up

406
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,200
or it's something

407
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:55,200
like any benefit

408
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,200
to a miner

409
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:57,200
that

410
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,200
you know,

411
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,200
they get

412
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,200
like,

413
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,200
so it's like

414
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,200
if someone uses

415
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,200
a miner

416
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,200
to heat their

417
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,200
swimming pool

418
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,200
that's like MEV.

419
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,200
This is what

420
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,200
it ends up being.

421
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,200
It ends up

422
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,200
being completely

423
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,200
absurd.

424
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,200
So the two

425
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,200
theories are

426
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,200
these are people

427
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:15,200
who have a concern

428
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:16,200
and they want

429
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,200
to share it

430
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,400
and it's like

431
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,400
you know,

432
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,400
they want attention

433
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,400
for themselves

434
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,400
they want

435
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,400
no,

436
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,400
I don't think

437
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,400
any MEV thing

438
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,400
has any

439
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,400
there's no reason

440
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,400
for anyone

441
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,400
to worry about that.

442
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:30,400
What people

443
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:31,400
should worry about

444
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:32,400
is just

445
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,400
this is like

446
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,400
when people say

447
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,400
you know

448
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,400
the MEV concerns

449
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,400
they're a lot like

450
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,400
you know

451
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,400
many religions

452
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,400
and many cultures

453
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,400
have like

454
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:42,400
a superstition

455
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,400
against

456
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,400
having too much

457
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:45,400
aspiration

458
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,400
like the tower

459
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,600
you know

460
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:48,600
these guys are getting

461
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:49,600
a little too

462
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:50,600
a little too

463
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,600
self-confident

464
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,600
so God destroys

465
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,600
the tower

466
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:54,600
or then in

467
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,600
Greek mythology

468
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:56,600
there's the

469
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:57,600
hubris

470
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,600
the pride

471
00:14:58,600 --> 00:14:59,600
goeth before

472
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:00,600
the fall

473
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:01,600
you know

474
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,600
so a lot of

475
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:03,600
these

476
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,600
many cultures

477
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:05,600
have this idea

478
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,600
that you shouldn't

479
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,600
want antibiotics

480
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,600
you shouldn't

481
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,600
want eyeglasses

482
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,600
you shouldn't

483
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,600
want Wi-Fi

484
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,600
you know

485
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,600
all these things

486
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:14,600
are all vanities

487
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:15,600
and temptations

488
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:16,800
you know

489
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:17,800
and

490
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,800
it doesn't really

491
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,800
hold up

492
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:20,800
I think at all

493
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,800
but I mean

494
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:22,800
one easy way

495
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:23,800
is to ask

496
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:24,800
these people

497
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,800
to write down

498
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:26,800
definition

499
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:27,800
of MEV

500
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:28,800
or a way

501
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,800
to measure

502
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:30,800
MEV

503
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:31,800
then you'll

504
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,800
see it

505
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,800
start falling

506
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:34,800
to pieces

507
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:35,800
instantaneously

508
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:36,800
well this would

509
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,800
be like

510
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:38,800
a good opportunity

511
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,800
I think

512
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:40,800
for you

513
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,800
to like

514
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:42,800
just share

515
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:43,800
your solution

516
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:44,800
so you're

517
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000
I've been a maximalist

518
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,000
for basically

519
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,000
15-16 years

520
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000
but

521
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000
up until this

522
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000
very moment

523
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,000
yeah basically

524
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000
and we need

525
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,000
competition

526
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000
we need something

527
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
to

528
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,000
to show people

529
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,000
what we could have

530
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
and so

531
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000
I'm creating

532
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,000
this alternative

533
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000
hard fork

534
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000
of bitcoin

535
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,000
called e-cash

536
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,000
so e-cash.com

537
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000
it will be

538
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,000
launching later

539
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
this month

540
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000
in like

541
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
alpha phase

542
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,000
so it'll be

543
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,000
like alpha beta

544
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,000
and then

545
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000
the real network

546
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,200
will be rolling out

547
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,200
this hard fork

548
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,200
in phases

549
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,200
so alpha

550
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,200
beta

551
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,200
and then

552
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,200
essentially

553
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:22,200
main net

554
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,200
yeah this is

555
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,200
new news

556
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,200
because we have

557
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,200
the big

558
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,200
dramatic timer

559
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,200
counting down

560
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,200
but I think

561
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,200
it'll be a good

562
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,200
like everything

563
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,200
is kind of

564
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,200
ready on our end

565
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,200
but

566
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,200
I wanted to

567
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,200
give people

568
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,200
like two

569
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,200
attempts

570
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,200
to see

571
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,200
exactly

572
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,200
what this

573
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,200
looks like

574
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,200
that are

575
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,400
how exactly

576
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,400
do I integrate

577
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,400
it's like

578
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,400
okay listen

579
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,400
there'll be two

580
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,400
you know

581
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,400
you can try

582
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,400
you can practice

583
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:52,400
twice

584
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,400
and there's some

585
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:54,400
danger

586
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,400
I mean

587
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,400
we should

588
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:57,400
there are some

589
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,400
risks associated

590
00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,400
with like

591
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,400
you know

592
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,400
using hard fork

593
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,400
safely

594
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,400
like replay

595
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,400
stuff

596
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:05,400
you just want

597
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,400
to make sure

598
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,400
that users

599
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,400
know what

600
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,400
they're doing

601
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,400
if they plan

602
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,400
on moving

603
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,400
these e-cash

604
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:13,600
to one

605
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,600
network

606
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:15,600
it will be

607
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:16,600
replayed

608
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:17,600
on the other

609
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,600
so you may be

610
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,600
sending away

611
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,600
the other

612
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:21,600
coin

613
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,600
accidentally

614
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:23,600
if you

615
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:24,600
if you try

616
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:25,600
to sell

617
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:26,600
your e-cash

618
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:27,600
you might have

619
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:28,600
yeah

620
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:29,600
if you

621
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,600
let's say

622
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,600
I was going

623
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,600
to sell

624
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:33,600
or I don't

625
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:34,600
know how

626
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,600
we could

627
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:36,600
come up

628
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:37,600
with a fun

629
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,600
example

630
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:39,600
where it

631
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,600
would be

632
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:41,600
like

633
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:42,800
500,000

634
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:43,800
e-cash

635
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:44,800
to Robin Linus

636
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,800
but then

637
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:46,800
when he gets

638
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:47,800
home

639
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,800
he realizes

640
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,800
oh

641
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:50,800
the same

642
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,800
Robin Linus

643
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:52,800
replayed

644
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:53,800
the transaction

645
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:54,800
he got

646
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:55,800
500,000

647
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:56,800
BTC

648
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,800
as well

649
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,800
I heard

650
00:17:58,800 --> 00:17:59,800
Robin Linus

651
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:00,800
actually was

652
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:01,800
the one

653
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:02,800
who came up

654
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:03,800
with a solution

655
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:04,800
for this

656
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:05,800
problem

657
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:06,800
he's very

658
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:07,800
clever

659
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:08,800
he's very

660
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:09,800
clever

661
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:10,800
that Robin Linus

662
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,000
and if people

663
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,000
are interested

664
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,000
in technical

665
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,000
minutia

666
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,000
the Coinbase

667
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,000
transactions

668
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,000
on each

669
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,000
network

670
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,000
will be

671
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000
different

672
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,000
since they're

673
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,000
different blocks

674
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,000
and they're

675
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000
just different

676
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,000
mined by

677
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,000
different

678
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,000
people

679
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,000
so those

680
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,000
will always

681
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,000
be

682
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,000
you'll

683
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,000
always

684
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000
be able

685
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
to split

686
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
with those

687
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,000
that's just

688
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,000
an aside

689
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,000
like you

690
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,000
can always

691
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,200
do pointless

692
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,200
technical minutia

693
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,200
or whatever

694
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,200
but I always

695
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,200
planned on there

696
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,200
being some

697
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,200
splitting

698
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,200
thing

699
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,200
but Robin Linus

700
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,200
got it down to

701
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,200
literally one

702
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,200
line of code

703
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,200
and then one

704
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,200
second line of

705
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,200
code

706
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,200
like for

707
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:57,200
good measure

708
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,200
so I was

709
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,200
very impressed

710
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,200
by that

711
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,200
and I thought

712
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,200
that was

713
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:03,200
very clever

714
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,200
totally

715
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,200
so

716
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,200
so what

717
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,200
did he do

718
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,200
there's just

719
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,200
there's this

720
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,400
transaction

721
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,400
in Bitcoin's

722
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,400
history

723
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,400
and this one was

724
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,400
from maybe

725
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,400
December 2015

726
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:16,400
so basically

727
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,400
locks

728
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,400
the funds

729
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,400
you sign

730
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,400
the transaction

731
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,400
but you can't

732
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,400
really broadcast

733
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,400
it and include

734
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,400
it in a block

735
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,400
until a certain

736
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,400
block height

737
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,400
this is in

738
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,400
Bitcoin

739
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:29,400
this is great

740
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,400
this is useful

741
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,400
this is used

742
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,400
in lightning

743
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,400
for example

744
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,400
a couple

745
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,400
other things

746
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,400
an indirect

747
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,400
way

748
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,400
and then

749
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:39,600
a certain value

750
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:40,600
which is like

751
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,600
one under the

752
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:42,600
maximum

753
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,600
block height value

754
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:44,600
e-cash

755
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,600
will just let you

756
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:46,600
broadcast it

757
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:47,600
instantaneously

758
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,600
but of course

759
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:49,600
in BTC

760
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:50,600
so it's kind of

761
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,600
like if you

762
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:52,600
post date the

763
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:53,600
check for

764
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,600
let's just

765
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:55,600
call it

766
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:56,600
you know

767
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:57,600
let's just

768
00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:58,600
pick a random

769
00:19:58,600 --> 00:19:59,600
day

770
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,600
we can say

771
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,600
if you

772
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:02,600
you know

773
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,600
Valentine's

774
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,600
Day

775
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,600
in the year

776
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:06,600
3111

777
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,600
okay

778
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,800
it just says

779
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:09,800
we just ignore

780
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:10,800
that date

781
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:11,800
so anytime

782
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:12,800
so basically

783
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:13,800
all transactions

784
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:14,800
on Bitcoin

785
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:15,800
are time locked

786
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,800
a thousand years

787
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:17,800
but then

788
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,800
if you

789
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,800
to this specific

790
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:20,800
date

791
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:21,800
Valentine's Day

792
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,800
on 2032

793
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:23,800
right

794
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:24,800
if you use

795
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:25,800
this special script

796
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:26,800
so you don't have

797
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,800
to worry about

798
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:28,800
being replayed

799
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:29,800
until long

800
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:30,800
after you're

801
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:31,800
dead

802
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:32,800
in theory

803
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,800
unless

804
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:34,800
but

805
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:35,800
e-cash

806
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,800
essentially

807
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,000
and so of course

808
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,000
if you actually use

809
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,000
for example

810
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,000
our mobile app

811
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000
or if you use

812
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Bitwindow

813
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,000
our desktop app

814
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,000
you can just

815
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,000
like click buttons

816
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000
and stuff

817
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
but of course

818
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,000
people would have

819
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,000
to import the

820
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,000
real Bitcoin

821
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000
private key

822
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
in order to

823
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,000
have the button

824
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,000
to click

825
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,000
which I would

826
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,000
imagine a lot

827
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,000
of people would

828
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,000
not do

829
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,000
yeah

830
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,000
I would

831
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,000
not do

832
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,000
that's why

833
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Robin invented

834
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,000
this right

835
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,000
because he

836
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:07,200
wanted the

837
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,200
replay protection

838
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,200
to be opt-in

839
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,200
so I was always

840
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,200
planning to have

841
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,200
no transaction

842
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,200
replay by default

843
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,200
and have a way

844
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200
to opt out of it

845
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,200
and I was

846
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,200
planning a little bit

847
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,200
on using it

848
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,200
as a kind of

849
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,200
cudgel

850
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,200
to get people

851
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,200
in and say

852
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,200
hey listen

853
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,200
hey do you want

854
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,200
to check out our

855
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,200
software because

856
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,200
we have the

857
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,200
splitter tool

858
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,200
in there

859
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,200
so that was

860
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,200
a little bit

861
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,200
part of it

862
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,200
but it was

863
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,200
also a little bit

864
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,200
about like

865
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,400
Bitcoiners who don't pay

866
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,400
attention to fork

867
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:38,400
they may lose

868
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,400
the e-cash

869
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,400
and may end up

870
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,400
with someone else

871
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,400
down the road

872
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,400
so I'm kind of

873
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,400
saying

874
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,400
why would you

875
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,400
lose your e-cash

876
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:47,400
down the road

877
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,400
if you make

878
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,400
the BTC

879
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,400
transaction

880
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,400
and then you

881
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,400
later think

882
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,400
oh

883
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,400
back in

884
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:55,400
you know

885
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,400
2026

886
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,400
Paul

887
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,400
this thing

888
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,400
but actually

889
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:00,400
these transactions

890
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,400
have been

891
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,400
being replayed

892
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:03,400
the whole time

893
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:04,400
right

894
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,600
and the coins

895
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,600
would just start

896
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,600
moving around

897
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,600
you know

898
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:09,600
like fine

899
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,600
then there'd be

900
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,600
a free for all

901
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,600
so I always

902
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,600
wanted to do that

903
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,600
and I always

904
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:15,600
wanted there to be

905
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:16,600
a way to

906
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,600
intentionally

907
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,600
if you wish

908
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:19,600
add replay protection

909
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,600
to the transaction

910
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:21,600
but I had a way

911
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:22,600
that wasn't

912
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,600
very good

913
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,600
it was imperfect

914
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:25,600
it was not good

915
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,600
it was like

916
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,600
two sort of

917
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:28,600
bad options

918
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,600
it was kind of

919
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:30,600
my idea was

920
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:31,600
to try to

921
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,600
mangle the TX ID

922
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,600
so that when

923
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:34,800
the signature

924
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,800
would be of

925
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:36,800
something else

926
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:37,800
and

927
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:38,800
it was just

928
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:39,800
Robbins

929
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:40,800
it's a much better

930
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:41,800
thing because

931
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,800
it's easier

932
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:43,800
for people to

933
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:44,800
I don't know how many

934
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:45,800
people ever

935
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,800
have heard of

936
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,800
nlock time

937
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,800
or whatever

938
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,800
but this is just

939
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,800
it's just so nice

940
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,800
to have it down

941
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,800
to literally

942
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,800
one line of code

943
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:54,800
that's very

944
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:55,800
it's very easy

945
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:56,800
to understand

946
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,800
also it's just

947
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,800
you see

948
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,800
it's like this

949
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,800
and then it's like

950
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:01,800
if this

951
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,800
like true

952
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000
you can just

953
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,000
execute this

954
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000
on some front end

955
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,000
yes

956
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000
exactly

957
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,000
okay

958
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000
so there will be

959
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,000
replay

960
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,000
ecash.com

961
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000
mobile wallet

962
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,000
and the

963
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,000
bit window desktop

964
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000
software

965
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000
they will do it

966
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000
and they will also

967
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,000
explain it

968
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000
and there's also

969
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000
a repo

970
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000
if you go to

971
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
the GitHub

972
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000
organization

973
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000
ecash

974
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000
dash com

975
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,000
there's no dots

976
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000
in those

977
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,000
but

978
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,000
there's like

979
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,000
a fast facts

980
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,000
repo

981
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,200
like how to mine

982
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,200
how to split the coins

983
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,200
like what's going on

984
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,200
like what are the

985
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,200
you know

986
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,200
what are the

987
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,200
how to get contact

988
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,200
people who are

989
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,200
not impersonators

990
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,200
and stuff like that

991
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,200
so we got like the fast facts

992
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,200
so if that

993
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,200
that's one of the facts

994
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,200
is how to split

995
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,200
and then

996
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:48,200
but a good thing about it

997
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,200
is that

998
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,200
you

999
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,200
it's

1000
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,200
another good thing

1001
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,200
about

1002
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,200
a robin's thing

1003
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,200
is that if you try

1004
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,200
in BTC

1005
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,200
you just

1006
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,200
you just can like

1007
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,200
manually type in the

1008
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,200
like you type in the right date

1009
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,200
and then

1010
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,400
it's like

1011
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:03,400
it's

1012
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,400
only very

1013
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,400
limited number of bad things

1014
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:06,400
could happen to you

1015
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:07,400
you know what I mean

1016
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,400
because it's like

1017
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,400
you sign the transaction

1018
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,400
but it's not

1019
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,400
as long as you type

1020
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,400
something far into the future

1021
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,400
you can just try again

1022
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,400
and you can say

1023
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,400
well that didn't work

1024
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,400
and

1025
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,400
you know

1026
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,400
I picked the wrong date

1027
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,400
you see what I mean

1028
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,400
you sign the check

1029
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,400
and says

1030
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,400
oh this is not going to be

1031
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,400
cached for 500 years

1032
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,400
well it won't

1033
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,400
it won't end up

1034
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,400
in the Bitcoin block

1035
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,400
so

1036
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,400
so you can just try again

1037
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,400
yeah

1038
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,400
there you go

1039
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,600
I mean

1040
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:32,600
there's going to be

1041
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,600
e-cash ordinals

1042
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:34,600
have you thought about that

1043
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,600
yeah

1044
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:36,600
when the fork event

1045
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,600
splits off

1046
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,600
all the ordinals

1047
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:39,600
should just copy themselves

1048
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,600
yeah

1049
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,600
it should be the same

1050
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,600
and the funny thing is

1051
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,600
because of

1052
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,600
Satoshi's

1053
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,600
early early coins

1054
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,600
that have never moved

1055
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,600
they will re-enter

1056
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,600
circulation

1057
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,600
so actually

1058
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,600
um

1059
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,600
some of those

1060
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,600
are bound to be

1061
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,600
on

1062
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,600
you know

1063
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,600
whatever

1064
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,600
like

1065
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:57,600
they're bound to be

1066
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:57,945
on like

1067
00:24:57,945 --> 00:25:24,945
difficulty adjustment or even yeah the epic sat right right I don't know I think
they're all in like maybe they're all in 2009 I'm not sure good double check the
epic sound I'm talking about which block coin which coin bases are the ones that we
repurpose or the 500k coins like those will go those are like early you know those
are really low on the ordinals list those are really low numbers

1068
00:25:24,945 --> 00:25:32,225
those are really low I don't think we're I mean I guess maybe they're

1069
00:25:32,225 --> 00:25:37,305
slightly more valuable but not a ton on actual Bitcoin unless it's the it's the

1070
00:25:37,305 --> 00:25:43,345
first of the difficulty adjustment the first of an of a happening right I mean

1071
00:25:43,345 --> 00:25:46,825
there's like certain so that'd be a whole system early in the four-year

1072
00:25:46,825 --> 00:25:49,945
cycle for that that other one to matter but there would be many that were a

1073
00:25:49,945 --> 00:25:54,225
difficulty adjustment so that so yeah I don't know yeah people collect rare sets

1074
00:25:54,225 --> 00:25:59,705
people very cash that are you gonna call them sets I think so yes this will just

1075
00:25:59,705 --> 00:26:06,505
be a cash sets the I wouldn't want to try to change it to something else but if

1076
00:26:06,505 --> 00:26:10,065
it was confusing for people then maybe let's just see like kind of what happens

1077
00:26:10,065 --> 00:26:14,905
with no see what happens interesting okay so when can people expect this to

1078
00:26:14,905 --> 00:26:19,825
happen so alpha is happening when the it's the it's ironically I didn't plan

1079
00:26:19,825 --> 00:26:23,585
any of this out but we have 110 is the next difficult it was coming up is the

1080
00:26:23,585 --> 00:26:29,425
next difficulty adjustment the end of 110 we all hope but then this the next

1081
00:26:29,425 --> 00:26:34,385
difficult two weeks after that is this one oh so it's gonna happen exactly to

1082
00:26:34,385 --> 00:26:40,145
one difficulty after that 110 and what after 110 is mandatory signaling so 110

1083
00:26:40,145 --> 00:26:43,985
turns out and of course I ignored all of this and I couldn't have cared less and

1084
00:26:43,985 --> 00:26:47,865
so I didn't even I was literally just thinking when I was doing the date we

1085
00:26:47,865 --> 00:26:54,545
were like oh we have to announce this soon let's announce it before the Las

1086
00:26:54,545 --> 00:26:58,505
Vegas conference so that we can smooth everything over in person and then we'll

1087
00:26:58,505 --> 00:27:02,105
pour them on so that's a good they'll get people enough time so that was the

1088
00:27:02,105 --> 00:27:06,745
only I was like I didn't even think that 110 would even be a thing ever so but

1089
00:27:06,745 --> 00:27:09,905
it's just funny that it happened to intersect because 110 has mandatory

1090
00:27:09,905 --> 00:27:14,425
signaling begins this weekend then there's theoretically there's an

1091
00:27:14,425 --> 00:27:20,585
additional two-week period for the 45% who according to them have still haven't

1092
00:27:20,585 --> 00:27:27,105
signaled to I know the whole thing is a fantasy I mean less than 3% isn't even

1093
00:27:27,105 --> 00:27:33,465
real anyway and it will collapse like well yeah I mean certainly what I expect

1094
00:27:33,465 --> 00:27:39,705
to happen is that on the upon the difficulty adjustment there will be

1095
00:27:39,705 --> 00:27:45,505
plenty of blocks that mind that do not signal right maybe there will be one or

1096
00:27:45,505 --> 00:27:52,745
two from 110 maybe they will then be on their own minority chain right the 110

1097
00:27:52,745 --> 00:27:56,665
people they have an enormous number of false things that they believe as I'm

1098
00:27:56,665 --> 00:28:01,545
sure you've this would be nodes right so they're not gonna get enough miners to

1099
00:28:01,545 --> 00:28:05,505
signal to have a minor activated software so then they're gonna have it'll

1100
00:28:05,505 --> 00:28:10,185
be like a user activated software de facto after that in which like some very

1101
00:28:10,185 --> 00:28:14,665
small portion of nodes will run this new software well I was just referring to

1102
00:28:14,665 --> 00:28:19,225
what will literally happen upon the day of whatever it is I think it's Saturday

1103
00:28:19,225 --> 00:28:26,065
night right every night like London time or something like that right and so there

1104
00:28:26,065 --> 00:28:33,585
will be a few maybe zero or maybe a few blocks mined by the 110 supporters if

1105
00:28:33,585 --> 00:28:39,025
that could be zero if there are a few blocks the most nodes who are ignored

1106
00:28:39,025 --> 00:28:41,985
because most people are just ignoring this this controversy they're gonna

1107
00:28:41,985 --> 00:28:45,465
ignore they're gonna successfully ignore their way out of it which is good for

1108
00:28:45,465 --> 00:28:50,425
them but I don't even think any like mining nodes are gonna run that I mean

1109
00:28:50,425 --> 00:28:55,145
it's gonna be a very tiny teeny teeny tiny portion of mining nodes that will

1110
00:28:55,145 --> 00:28:58,185
be running the software yeah of course and of course as a percentage of hash

1111
00:28:58,185 --> 00:29:01,185
rate I'm talking about the blocks they actually produce it doesn't matter how

1112
00:29:01,185 --> 00:29:07,705
many nodes or it doesn't matter how many you know whatever Twitter likes you can

1113
00:29:07,705 --> 00:29:11,665
get it's just like the thermodynamic block output will be very low they will

1114
00:29:11,665 --> 00:29:14,785
be on a minority chain those people will never get paid because you need the

1115
00:29:14,785 --> 00:29:19,105
hundred block maturity period they seem to think that if enough nodes like just

1116
00:29:19,105 --> 00:29:22,585
regular non mining nodes are running the software that that will create like

1117
00:29:22,585 --> 00:29:26,585
pressure for the minor complete misunderstanding of what happened with

1118
00:29:26,585 --> 00:29:32,505
segwit in 2017 okay it's hard to know even where to begin because it's such a

1119
00:29:32,505 --> 00:29:38,105
convoluted thing but in back in the day there was this great idea segwit and

1120
00:29:38,105 --> 00:29:41,905
everyone everyone liked segwit segwit was a bug fix it was a bug in Satoshi's

1121
00:29:41,905 --> 00:29:46,025
code there's no way that he intended to have this thing called transaction

1122
00:29:46,025 --> 00:29:51,025
malleability it's possible but it's very very very unlikely that because

1123
00:29:51,025 --> 00:29:55,425
transaction malleability means basically I could write a check and sign

1124
00:29:55,425 --> 00:30:00,225
it and then you could do something to the check where you would change stuff

1125
00:30:00,225 --> 00:30:06,105
that I wrote and change my signature not like the amounts really or the sender

1126
00:30:06,105 --> 00:30:09,105
the receiver but you could like it's like multiplying both numbers by four

1127
00:30:09,105 --> 00:30:12,345
and kind of shifting them over and then like dividing them by twelve and then

1128
00:30:12,345 --> 00:30:15,505
like he's kind of like you can kind of like rearrange the check for what end

1129
00:30:15,505 --> 00:30:19,625
like why it does almost it does very little but one of the things it does do

1130
00:30:19,625 --> 00:30:25,265
is change the TX ID okay and as a result if I give you a transaction and

1131
00:30:25,265 --> 00:30:29,505
then we try to build off of it which is exactly how lightning works it you could

1132
00:30:29,505 --> 00:30:35,025
change it get that transaction included in a block and then the original would

1133
00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:38,585
not and then the chain the chain of transactions the way to game lightning

1134
00:30:38,585 --> 00:30:43,145
yeah lightning no one wanted to shit there was there were versions of

1135
00:30:43,145 --> 00:30:48,745
lightning that you could use if without segwit but they were horrendously

1136
00:30:48,905 --> 00:30:53,825
inefficient and everyone thought can we just fix this bug which was we did with

1137
00:30:53,825 --> 00:30:57,345
segwit so the point I'm trying to make is actually that everyone thought segwit

1138
00:30:57,345 --> 00:31:00,745
was a good idea including the people holding it hostage so they were kind of

1139
00:31:00,745 --> 00:31:03,865
holding a gun to its head they were saying oh this I've got your precious

1140
00:31:03,865 --> 00:31:08,985
segwit give give us the two 2x block size increase and then we'll you know

1141
00:31:08,985 --> 00:31:13,705
you give me my hostage I'll give you your hostage but with 110 it's not a

1142
00:31:13,705 --> 00:31:17,145
hostage at all it's just like a it's a bad you know no one wants the feature

1143
00:31:17,145 --> 00:31:21,945
they have no power wants the 110 they have a bag of their own trash they're

1144
00:31:21,945 --> 00:31:25,585
holding a gun to and they're saying we'll pull the trigger if you don't so

1145
00:31:25,585 --> 00:31:28,745
they're badly misunderstood the other thing was segwit went through this huge

1146
00:31:28,745 --> 00:31:33,265
process lots and lots of people had discussed it segwit was going to support

1147
00:31:33,265 --> 00:31:37,545
lightning you know how big of a sacred cow lightning is and it's even back then

1148
00:31:37,545 --> 00:31:41,425
lightning was the answer to the large blockers you know the Roger Ver and this

1149
00:31:41,425 --> 00:31:43,825
type of thing was like oh how are we gonna scale because we've only can do

1150
00:31:43,825 --> 00:31:47,705
five to seven transactions per second oh we'll do lightning so lightning

1151
00:31:47,705 --> 00:31:52,185
expectations were very very very high segwit you know basically equaled

1152
00:31:52,185 --> 00:31:57,505
lightning you already mean Jeremy Rubin said lightning is good for the children

1153
00:31:57,505 --> 00:32:04,945
yeah so we had a lot of like everyone was everyone knew that the when the

1154
00:32:04,945 --> 00:32:09,265
miners are holding segwit hostage they knew that the other people the non

1155
00:32:09,265 --> 00:32:14,105
miners wanted it but this 110 is just something that really no one wants just

1156
00:32:14,105 --> 00:32:17,425
Luke wants it and then and also know what another thing no one wants is no

1157
00:32:17,425 --> 00:32:23,545
one wants to be no one wants to live in a world where it's like now every time

1158
00:32:23,545 --> 00:32:27,665
Luke comes up with some some notion we all have to just go along with it right

1159
00:32:27,665 --> 00:32:31,865
so I don't think anyone wants to live in that world Luke has really what I can't

1160
00:32:31,865 --> 00:32:35,625
really tell because I wasn't super following his career prior to the

1161
00:32:35,625 --> 00:32:41,265
situation but like well I mean was he broadly I mean what's your take on how

1162
00:32:41,265 --> 00:32:45,145
this has affected his reputation oh well I think it probably is very very

1163
00:32:45,145 --> 00:32:49,745
negative every Luke has always been very very unusual but you know sometimes as

1164
00:32:49,745 --> 00:32:54,305
you know in a room full of like crazy artists programmers first of all

1165
00:32:54,305 --> 00:32:58,865
everyone's a little weird but also you know you have like that weird diversity

1166
00:32:58,865 --> 00:33:04,425
to kind of it rounds the whole thing out in a way that's that extra creativity

1167
00:33:04,425 --> 00:33:12,145
was was he like the primary maintainer of Bitcoin core but no did he held a key

1168
00:33:12,145 --> 00:33:18,145
to his very skilled okay and he you know one of his many claim to fames is he was

1169
00:33:18,145 --> 00:33:21,905
the first he like if you go to the IRC chat logs he was like the first one to

1170
00:33:21,905 --> 00:33:27,185
point out a certain Bitcoin fork had happened there are two and I'm gonna

1171
00:33:27,185 --> 00:33:33,665
mix them up but one of us this level DB switch over fork and he like alerted

1172
00:33:33,665 --> 00:33:37,785
everyone to it I'm sure people would have found out anyway but it was like

1173
00:33:37,785 --> 00:33:42,745
you know he was like he kind of happening he was the one and for that he

1174
00:33:42,745 --> 00:33:46,145
was also someone said oh well you can't do segwit as a soft fork if only you

1175
00:33:46,145 --> 00:33:49,345
could and he was like what do you mean if of course you can you just do this

1176
00:33:49,345 --> 00:33:54,585
this bizarre thing which I think I would say many people in Bitcoin core I've

1177
00:33:54,585 --> 00:33:57,905
talked to a few people who are big Bitcoin core developers at the time

1178
00:33:57,905 --> 00:34:01,745
years later some of them kind of regret this whole segwit thing because the

1179
00:34:01,745 --> 00:34:04,465
segwit thing now instead of just one Merkle tree there's like three Merkle

1180
00:34:04,465 --> 00:34:07,985
trees then there's like instead of just one blockchain there's actually two

1181
00:34:07,985 --> 00:34:11,345
blockchains that are like in parallel and like they can like reconvert into

1182
00:34:11,345 --> 00:34:15,145
each other and it kind of made like a giant mess of everything so I think

1183
00:34:15,145 --> 00:34:19,785
segwit is kind of bizarre but what this was like Luke's like Luke was like again

1184
00:34:19,785 --> 00:34:24,625
one of the first starting the the avalanche where he was just kind of like

1185
00:34:24,625 --> 00:34:28,665
well you could just do this and this and this other thing do you think like bib

1186
00:34:28,665 --> 00:34:32,865
110 has any like cultural relevance to speak of like what do you think is the

1187
00:34:32,865 --> 00:34:37,745
the like let's just say they do in all likelihood just kind of like fork off

1188
00:34:37,745 --> 00:34:44,545
and go away will they leave a mark will they stick around like I don't know I

1189
00:34:44,545 --> 00:34:49,585
mean it's the whole thing so bizarre I think I hope I hope it doesn't leave I

1190
00:34:49,585 --> 00:34:56,705
mean what do you think like because I don't know the one problem with it is

1191
00:34:56,705 --> 00:35:00,585
that I think even though they I mean I think they'll continue to fight for like

1192
00:35:00,585 --> 00:35:04,905
data availability is bad do they really actually believe that or were they just

1193
00:35:04,905 --> 00:35:07,545
did they just want attention the whole I don't know you know I don't know either

1194
00:35:07,545 --> 00:35:12,585
because they they stapled a bunch of basically lies into their argument like

1195
00:35:12,585 --> 00:35:16,065
from time to time and the number enormous number of exaggerations I can't

1196
00:35:16,065 --> 00:35:21,865
remember the beginning of the argument was soon in a few months Bitcoin core v30

1197
00:35:21,865 --> 00:35:25,705
will come out and that it will be a huge problem because there will be all this

1198
00:35:25,705 --> 00:35:29,585
all this all these large op returns but you know that didn't happen that was

1199
00:35:29,585 --> 00:35:33,385
like last year yeah and then they were like and then this and then there's like

1200
00:35:33,385 --> 00:35:39,305
with CSAM and blah blah blah and so they just kind of had a lot of alarmist stuff

1201
00:35:39,305 --> 00:35:44,265
in which they had then doubled down date you know they refused to back down when

1202
00:35:44,265 --> 00:35:48,545
they were called on a lot of their false things they have doubled down each time

1203
00:35:48,545 --> 00:35:52,785
saying oh yeah of course you know up until a few days ago they were saying oh

1204
00:35:52,785 --> 00:35:56,665
obviously everyone is gonna literally until the absolute last moment they were

1205
00:35:56,665 --> 00:36:00,945
saying the miners are just waiting there we know we're lulling them into a false

1206
00:36:00,945 --> 00:36:06,345
sense of security and the miners are waiting and then in the last they're

1207
00:36:06,345 --> 00:36:10,505
finally gonna start signaling and now now that it's become is literally when

1208
00:36:10,505 --> 00:36:15,065
it like they couldn't possibly did miss so many in the last two week period that

1209
00:36:15,065 --> 00:36:19,585
and got missed so many and they had the two you know only the two percent or

1210
00:36:19,585 --> 00:36:22,185
whatever that they couldn't possibly hit fifty five percent that only at the

1211
00:36:22,185 --> 00:36:26,985
last possible minute kicking and screaming dragged into saying oh well

1212
00:36:26,985 --> 00:36:30,985
now we're gonna we're gonna change the proof of work and fire all the miners so

1213
00:36:30,985 --> 00:36:35,065
it's funny they're now gonna have to come up with a new name they're they're

1214
00:36:35,065 --> 00:36:40,305
kind of now where I was or you know the other e-cash people and I were like like

1215
00:36:40,305 --> 00:36:45,105
months ago we were kind of planning out this is how we will do this hard fork so

1216
00:36:45,105 --> 00:36:50,145
now they're kind of just doing that now and maybe they can can speedrun it very

1217
00:36:50,145 --> 00:36:56,545
quickly maybe they don't even care like I don't know your guess is as good as

1218
00:36:56,545 --> 00:37:01,225
mine I think was to respect to whether or not I'll have any cultural I hope not

1219
00:37:01,225 --> 00:37:06,425
I hope their cultural lesson is to stop lying to people and stop exaggerating

1220
00:37:06,425 --> 00:37:11,265
the importance of opera turn it's not really not that important it's funny

1221
00:37:11,265 --> 00:37:15,025
when we were on spaces the other week that was the term that stuck out to me

1222
00:37:15,025 --> 00:37:19,185
was Robby Hamilton said that your fork was much more intellectually honest I

1223
00:37:19,185 --> 00:37:24,025
just tell people listen like here's the BIP 300 you can activate it BIP 300 at

1224
00:37:24,025 --> 00:37:30,225
any time thus negating the hard fork really because how could the hard fork

1225
00:37:30,225 --> 00:37:36,145
succeed or have any real success when it's just it's just Bitcoin plus you

1226
00:37:36,145 --> 00:37:40,265
know it's just a different version of what Bitcoin is but for as long as BTC

1227
00:37:40,265 --> 00:37:44,545
does not have BIP 300 there will then be a real difference between the two and so

1228
00:37:44,545 --> 00:37:49,665
it's like people does that matter or not people have to equivocate you know

1229
00:37:49,665 --> 00:37:54,185
what I mean they have to say I'll be 300 that's a terrible idea oh then don't

1230
00:37:54,185 --> 00:37:58,225
mind me I'm just gonna do it over here then and then and then they say wait a

1231
00:37:58,225 --> 00:38:02,545
minute we don't want anyone to go over to that well then is a good idea like so

1232
00:38:02,545 --> 00:38:06,745
this is a completely the hard fork we should do much more of this this hard

1233
00:38:06,745 --> 00:38:11,625
fork people were like telling me you're you're chaotic good you know in the in

1234
00:38:11,625 --> 00:38:14,305
the in the table because they're like we should just do all these hard forks

1235
00:38:14,305 --> 00:38:18,665
give everyone free money everyone gets free money this is a this is actually a

1236
00:38:18,665 --> 00:38:23,625
quite a good idea is the only reason that are there's the primary reason why

1237
00:38:23,625 --> 00:38:26,905
people fear hard forks because of this replay thing like what are the core

1238
00:38:26,905 --> 00:38:29,785
reasons why I don't think so I think it splits the community and you can't you

1239
00:38:29,785 --> 00:38:34,185
can't have like you know everyone wants to buy like the Bitcoin standard and put

1240
00:38:34,185 --> 00:38:39,465
it like on the bookshelf behind and there's you like a real bit coiner I got

1241
00:38:39,465 --> 00:38:47,825
my cold card in my Bitcoin standard in my MSTR stock I'm a real bit coiner so

1242
00:38:47,825 --> 00:38:50,105
you split the community and then you kind of you know it's like what if we're

1243
00:38:50,105 --> 00:38:52,785
gonna go to you know we're gonna go to a Yankees game and then we're gonna start

1244
00:38:52,785 --> 00:39:00,025
like Yankees whatever prime Yankees yeah the whole point of to some for a lot of

1245
00:39:00,025 --> 00:39:03,665
people the whole point of it is the community and it's like you know people

1246
00:39:03,665 --> 00:39:08,185
need something to do you know church attendance is down it was COVID everyone

1247
00:39:08,185 --> 00:39:12,465
was locked in there they need they need without you know without the meme of the

1248
00:39:12,465 --> 00:39:16,305
money printer go burr you know and they're they're a group chat you know

1249
00:39:16,305 --> 00:39:22,305
what is their spiritual North Star is their spiritual North Star so I think

1250
00:39:22,305 --> 00:39:26,305
that's why we should break people out of that into this more rational thing hey

1251
00:39:26,305 --> 00:39:30,905
just let a thousand flowers bloom of course it should be noted that right

1252
00:39:30,905 --> 00:39:34,465
after Mao Zedong said let a thousand flowers bloom that was the trick he used

1253
00:39:34,465 --> 00:39:37,825
to get all the independent people out so that he could arrest them and kill them

1254
00:39:37,825 --> 00:39:43,305
all but so actually that that phrase is is not actually a good one really if you

1255
00:39:43,305 --> 00:39:47,825
think about it for the flowers all right guys taking a quick moment to thank my

1256
00:39:47,825 --> 00:39:52,445
new sponsors of the show first off the one and only layer two labs pushing

1257
00:39:52,445 --> 00:39:56,425
forward research and development of drive chains drive chains were first

1258
00:39:56,425 --> 00:40:02,065
introduced as a software proposal to Bitcoin aka BIP 300 BIP 301 these BIPs

1259
00:40:02,065 --> 00:40:06,265
essentially propose a bridging mechanism between Bitcoin and layer twos that are

1260
00:40:06,265 --> 00:40:10,305
incentive aligned with miners and they've gotten a ton of attention over

1261
00:40:10,305 --> 00:40:13,825
the last couple of years if you're curious about how drive chains could

1262
00:40:13,825 --> 00:40:17,825
work in practice though check out layer two labs calm and download their

1263
00:40:17,825 --> 00:40:22,025
alternative front end to Bitcoin core it lets you play with drive chains and see

1264
00:40:22,025 --> 00:40:26,985
how they actually work in real life I'd also like to introduce Hashi an

1265
00:40:26,985 --> 00:40:31,425
alternative primitive to traditional L2 is that allows users to execute a wide

1266
00:40:31,425 --> 00:40:35,665
range of Bitcoin DeFi activities without having to trust a federated

1267
00:40:35,665 --> 00:40:42,185
bridge with Hashi Bitcoin is controlled by an MPC wallet that requires a quorum

1268
00:40:42,185 --> 00:40:46,665
of proof-of-stake validators on the sui network to execute Bitcoin transactions

1269
00:40:46,665 --> 00:40:51,705
based on the validity of smart contracts at least a third of the staking power of

1270
00:40:51,705 --> 00:40:56,305
the sui validators network is required to execute these MPC mint and redeem

1271
00:40:56,305 --> 00:41:00,145
transactions which is a substantive improvement in trust assumptions

1272
00:41:00,145 --> 00:41:05,745
relative to other L2s or sidechain bridges Hashi's commercial team is also

1273
00:41:05,745 --> 00:41:09,505
stacked including a crew of former builders from the crypto division of

1274
00:41:09,505 --> 00:41:14,265
meta I think we're gonna see a suite of super competitive Bitcoin DeFi products

1275
00:41:14,265 --> 00:41:18,905
built with this protocol so definitely check out the Hashi page on sui.io if

1276
00:41:18,905 --> 00:41:24,865
you're curious last but not least shout out to bitbox bitbox is one of the

1277
00:41:24,865 --> 00:41:28,665
easiest and most simple to use Bitcoin hardware wallets on the market right now

1278
00:41:28,745 --> 00:41:33,185
if you have friends or family members that you want to make sure stay safe and

1279
00:41:33,185 --> 00:41:37,065
use cold storage but maybe they're not the most Bitcoin native people in the

1280
00:41:37,065 --> 00:41:42,945
world I highly recommend checking out bitbox they're completely open source no

1281
00:41:42,945 --> 00:41:48,385
compromises on security but they're also super easy to use really intuitive UX

1282
00:41:48,385 --> 00:41:52,885
plus you can use them with concierge multi-sig services like unchanged which

1283
00:41:52,885 --> 00:41:56,945
I'm personally a big fan of if you want to check out their hardware wallets go

1284
00:41:56,945 --> 00:42:02,905
to bitbox dot Swiss and use code Bitcoin rails to get a discount all right back

1285
00:42:02,905 --> 00:42:07,025
to the show should we take this opportunity to actually talk about like

1286
00:42:07,025 --> 00:42:11,345
so some of this pork of the hard fork is happening he cash is happening based on

1287
00:42:11,345 --> 00:42:15,025
drive chains we haven't even really done that TLDR on drive jet this is the core

1288
00:42:15,025 --> 00:42:21,625
purpose of the fork is to enable a Bitcoin esque chain that essentially

1289
00:42:21,625 --> 00:42:25,225
just implements drive chains but I'm not sure if it implements other changes

1290
00:42:25,225 --> 00:42:31,065
actually there is actually a second QSYF client now so the QSYF is a core

1291
00:42:31,065 --> 00:42:34,505
untouched soft fork so that's basically I just have Bitcoin core that is really

1292
00:42:34,505 --> 00:42:38,345
untouched and I get up you can see how little it's such but it has for example

1293
00:42:38,345 --> 00:42:43,785
Robin Linus's and lock time these are some of the like a couple tiny tweaks

1294
00:42:43,785 --> 00:42:49,105
these changes are to make Bitcoin core into e-cash so actually not related to

1295
00:42:49,105 --> 00:42:55,545
bit 300 okay so we have that untouched and then next to it you have basically

1296
00:42:55,545 --> 00:43:00,745
second full node that scans all the block chains all the blocks a second

1297
00:43:00,745 --> 00:43:04,985
time checks for any bit 300 rule-breaking and then it says wait a

1298
00:43:04,985 --> 00:43:08,725
minute this block is invalid this is all you need to do a soft fork so you can do

1299
00:43:08,725 --> 00:43:12,705
as many soft works as you like without changing any lines of code in Bitcoin

1300
00:43:12,705 --> 00:43:16,985
you just need 51% hash rate so so you have when you fork Bitcoin core you have

1301
00:43:16,985 --> 00:43:21,145
a very small number of changes to Bitcoin core and then the major what

1302
00:43:21,145 --> 00:43:26,465
would be seen as the major changes aka bit 300 bit 301 are executed via core

1303
00:43:26,465 --> 00:43:30,545
untouched software that's right which means that the e-cash miners are running

1304
00:43:30,545 --> 00:43:37,305
these bit 300 bit 301 right both okay they run both pieces of software they

1305
00:43:37,305 --> 00:43:41,665
run but right they run this new e-cash core is it called area called e-cash

1306
00:43:41,665 --> 00:43:45,665
or the funny thing is because I wanted to change so little of it and because

1307
00:43:45,665 --> 00:43:49,665
Bitcoin has all these tests I didn't want to be in a cold card situation with

1308
00:43:49,665 --> 00:43:54,505
those weird commits so it's just still just called Bitcoin in like the thing

1309
00:43:54,505 --> 00:43:58,785
which is the I changed the readme to say like this is not big do you know how

1310
00:43:58,785 --> 00:44:02,185
many lines of code are actually changed funny that you mentioned that because we

1311
00:44:02,185 --> 00:44:04,625
wanted to get it down to the lowest number and then we wanted to like maybe

1312
00:44:04,625 --> 00:44:08,065
make t-shirts and stuff but you know I got a lot on my plate right now so I

1313
00:44:08,065 --> 00:44:11,265
don't know the exact number but we want it to be really really low because it's

1314
00:44:11,265 --> 00:44:16,985
only a few things it's arguably like there's other things too about like

1315
00:44:16,985 --> 00:44:21,105
should some people say should we actually change even stuff like a

1316
00:44:21,105 --> 00:44:24,625
network magic and stuff like that and so there's like a tiny little debate over

1317
00:44:24,625 --> 00:44:28,505
whether or not we can sand down a few more lines of code or whether or not

1318
00:44:28,505 --> 00:44:33,145
people want those changed or something so there's a way I'll get back to you

1319
00:44:33,145 --> 00:44:37,905
with the the exact final number we want to get it to the absolute lowest number

1320
00:44:37,905 --> 00:44:42,905
possible okay but yeah you can go to elegance still matter but someone could

1321
00:44:42,905 --> 00:44:47,265
call it a cash core that's fine yeah you cash core okay so there's me a cash core

1322
00:44:47,265 --> 00:44:52,185
very very similar to Bitcoin with drive chains QCF essentially running on top

1323
00:44:52,185 --> 00:44:56,905
are you planning on having specific drive chains enabled right off the bat

1324
00:44:56,905 --> 00:45:02,105
yeah what drive chains are we gonna have yeah we have a few that we made and then

1325
00:45:02,105 --> 00:45:06,425
there are some made by other people so we made the one one that we made is

1326
00:45:06,425 --> 00:45:11,185
just called thunder and it is just a large block throughput like highly

1327
00:45:11,185 --> 00:45:17,145
optimized it was like big block Bitcoin right and we have tested it to you know

1328
00:45:17,145 --> 00:45:22,985
onboarding and transacting with like basically like four billion people give

1329
00:45:22,985 --> 00:45:26,265
or take if you would not they would not all be on one they would actually be in

1330
00:45:26,265 --> 00:45:30,305
like geographically distributed set so there would be like Thunder North

1331
00:45:30,305 --> 00:45:35,865
America Thunder Southeast Asia Thunder Europe because most of the trade in

1332
00:45:35,865 --> 00:45:40,665
those places is internal so you would you would you would cheat and you get

1333
00:45:40,665 --> 00:45:44,025
like another ten you split it like basically you chop it like one order of

1334
00:45:44,025 --> 00:45:47,145
magnitude and this is just to create more block space basically you just yeah

1335
00:45:47,145 --> 00:45:50,025
of course you wouldn't do this at first at first you just have one and then you

1336
00:45:50,025 --> 00:45:53,105
wait until lots and lots of people are using it but the point is there's a plan

1337
00:45:53,105 --> 00:45:58,825
there's an actual foresight and a plan to reach eight billion people so but

1338
00:45:58,825 --> 00:46:02,585
right now one could handle how many people how many transactions the point

1339
00:46:02,585 --> 00:46:05,505
I'm trying to make is that actually if you look at the tests on github you see

1340
00:46:05,505 --> 00:46:11,585
there is actually no there's no actual barrier to reaching the entire planets

1341
00:46:11,585 --> 00:46:17,105
like transaction volume like if it were actually going to reach that you would

1342
00:46:17,105 --> 00:46:23,025
be able to because you can see like how far it came in like two years and you

1343
00:46:23,025 --> 00:46:26,745
can see how far the heart so I'm saying basically for all intents and purposes

1344
00:46:26,745 --> 00:46:32,305
it has the entire planetary scale possibility I was just not bad for one

1345
00:46:32,305 --> 00:46:37,585
there's also one made by someone else but that we support and encourage

1346
00:46:37,585 --> 00:46:45,065
enormously as a z-side and which is this takes from Z cash their orchard crate

1347
00:46:45,065 --> 00:46:50,345
and so that gives people privacy these private Z addresses we can hide the

1348
00:46:50,345 --> 00:46:54,465
center of the receiver in the amount so there's gonna be a Z cash e-cash drive

1349
00:46:54,465 --> 00:46:59,105
chains basically a layer tails that's right okay we have a couple others like

1350
00:46:59,105 --> 00:47:02,745
bit names is basically based off of name coins that actually does quite a

1351
00:47:02,745 --> 00:47:06,625
few things so this is like you'd own a name like you could own well you know

1352
00:47:06,625 --> 00:47:11,625
whatever isabel dot bit or does isabel dot anarchy or something and then this

1353
00:47:11,625 --> 00:47:15,585
would you can resolve this to whatever you like it's kind of maybe sounds a

1354
00:47:15,585 --> 00:47:18,825
little technical but if you think about like hey what if someone is

1355
00:47:18,825 --> 00:47:22,945
impersonating you or what if someone what if someone D platforms you like if

1356
00:47:22,945 --> 00:47:27,585
Twitter deactivates your account or if YouTube tries to you know pull your

1357
00:47:27,585 --> 00:47:32,585
stuff with this you just own the name permanently and you can then use the

1358
00:47:32,585 --> 00:47:36,265
name to feed all the other stuff like the name can feed like oh this is my

1359
00:47:36,265 --> 00:47:41,545
telegram account this is my phone number this is my whatever so it's actually

1360
00:47:41,545 --> 00:47:46,385
quite a cool idea and name coin is actually a very old idea co-invented by

1361
00:47:46,385 --> 00:47:52,785
Satoshi himself used to be called bit DNS and it's hard to explain in detail

1362
00:47:52,785 --> 00:47:57,945
why it's so important but I think it could it could really help the world a

1363
00:47:57,945 --> 00:48:00,785
lot because it kind of gives everyone like a phone book where you can message

1364
00:48:00,785 --> 00:48:03,785
everyone but then since money is involved you can like gate the

1365
00:48:03,785 --> 00:48:10,065
introductions you said but we have to pay like $50 to message this person so I

1366
00:48:10,065 --> 00:48:14,345
think it cut down on spam to cut down on all this impersonation D platforming

1367
00:48:14,345 --> 00:48:18,625
shadowbanning you know it could really change social media a lot it's actually

1368
00:48:18,625 --> 00:48:22,145
it's quite a an ambitious idea I think actually it's a pretty cool I wrote a

1369
00:48:22,145 --> 00:48:27,385
long piece of writing about this called bit names so people can read the text

1370
00:48:27,385 --> 00:48:31,545
that were all this text about like what the potential is we have another one bit

1371
00:48:31,545 --> 00:48:34,945
assets which is basically just like you can issue any assets so this would be

1372
00:48:34,945 --> 00:48:40,585
like like tap assets yeah stable coins NFTs ordinals type of thing like that

1373
00:48:40,585 --> 00:48:44,945
but just also if you'd want to do like stocks and bonds or just anything where

1374
00:48:44,945 --> 00:48:50,425
you wanted to say you know I just want to make 500 Isabelle coin and like a

1375
00:48:50,865 --> 00:48:55,465
platform right but people would a lot of people criticize that stuff is say

1376
00:48:55,465 --> 00:48:59,745
that's all useless but of course the ordinals paid an enormous amount of

1377
00:48:59,745 --> 00:49:03,625
percentage of the transaction mining transaction fees and then it ended up

1378
00:49:03,625 --> 00:49:10,305
being one of the most popular crypto projects ever is the like the stable

1379
00:49:10,305 --> 00:49:15,265
coins which are basically just like an NFT backed by totally by tether so

1380
00:49:15,505 --> 00:49:19,825
actually I'm saying you cash stable coin would be like that's like peak that's

1381
00:49:19,825 --> 00:49:25,225
yeah I've actually already in they've already kind of worked out one so even

1382
00:49:25,225 --> 00:49:31,065
if USD T doesn't come to e-cash which I think it will anyway but even if it

1383
00:49:31,065 --> 00:49:35,105
didn't people have like constructed something where it's like a new thing

1384
00:49:35,105 --> 00:49:40,985
backed by USD T so it's like a USD T like underscore T or something you know

1385
00:49:40,985 --> 00:49:45,785
OK and so it's backed by USD T and so that's that's what people are figuring

1386
00:49:45,785 --> 00:49:51,825
out a way to like hack and you basically get a T against tethers will maybe

1387
00:49:51,825 --> 00:49:56,745
it's like using actual USD T as collateral to back your U.S.

1388
00:49:56,745 --> 00:50:02,345
OK so I have a funny idea some other ones.

1389
00:50:03,324 --> 00:50:18,324
We have a long time proponent of prediction markets so we actually have a this
prediction market project that I constructed to be on Bitcoin in 2015 a long time
ago but Bitcoin never like pursued this stuff sidechains or covenants.

1390
00:50:18,324 --> 00:50:22,324
Is this a sidechain now or is it oh it is a sidechain how does it work?

1391
00:50:23,324 --> 00:50:34,324
Well it's it's actually a little complicated but basically you can this is like kind
of like a poly market sort of sidechain where you can bet on things happening.

1392
00:50:34,324 --> 00:51:03,324
But what I did one of the things the reason why my Twitter handle is called
Truthcoin is actually I wrote a paper in 2013 I think it published January 2014 and
I wrote some code and that was definitely finished in 2013 back in the day the code
and for a peer to peer Oracle which figures out what happened in the real world even
when everyone has like an incentive to lie about what happened.

1393
00:51:03,324 --> 00:51:09,324
So it's like a smart contract platform with an Oracle that's telling you what the
what ended up happening in this bet.

1394
00:51:09,324 --> 00:51:10,324
Right.

1395
00:51:10,324 --> 00:51:11,324
Interesting. OK.

1396
00:51:11,324 --> 00:51:12,324
That's ancient history.

1397
00:51:12,324 --> 00:51:15,324
There's going to be probably several EVM style sidechains.

1398
00:51:15,324 --> 00:51:20,324
There's two people doing EVM style drive chain right now. So I think.

1399
00:51:20,324 --> 00:51:25,324
You've got EVM style drive chains you've got a Bitcoin cash style drive chains.

1400
00:51:25,324 --> 00:51:27,324
You've got a Zcash drive chains.

1401
00:51:27,324 --> 00:51:30,324
You have all the everything that's been successful.

1402
00:51:31,324 --> 00:51:35,324
There's like a block stream did this thing elements.

1403
00:51:35,324 --> 00:51:42,324
Well first of all people are interested in my prediction market stuff which is again
a lot of the OG Bitcoin people think of me as like the prediction market guy
actually.

1404
00:51:42,324 --> 00:51:44,324
So that's why they're like oh.

1405
00:51:44,324 --> 00:51:46,324
So that's your handle.

1406
00:51:46,324 --> 00:51:50,324
Bitcoinhivemind.com is where I stashed all the prediction market stuff.

1407
00:51:51,324 --> 00:51:55,324
So if you if you go to truthcoin.info it links to Bitcoinhivemind.com also.

1408
00:51:55,324 --> 00:51:58,324
But if you just go to Bitcoinhivemind.com you can see I have a lot of stuff.

1409
00:51:58,324 --> 00:51:59,324
I have videos.

1410
00:51:59,324 --> 00:52:01,324
I have the old software.

1411
00:52:01,324 --> 00:52:03,324
I have lots of cool stuff.

1412
00:52:03,324 --> 00:52:14,324
Like I originally did like I think one might have been one of my first Bitcoin
podcasts was like let's talk Bitcoin in like April 2014 or something.

1413
00:52:14,324 --> 00:52:16,324
And it was about this is it was about prediction markets.

1414
00:52:16,324 --> 00:52:20,324
So so that was like the original thing.

1415
00:52:22,324 --> 00:52:33,324
In addition to that there's this block stream elements project where it's like they
have a bunch of stuff added including like they have a cat and stuff in their
element elements is basically is it the language.

1416
00:52:33,324 --> 00:52:36,324
It's like the script alternative for liquid.

1417
00:52:36,324 --> 00:52:37,324
Is that right.

1418
00:52:37,324 --> 00:52:42,324
There's also like simplicity and I can't remember the relationship between them all.

1419
00:52:42,324 --> 00:52:43,324
It's a little confusing.

1420
00:52:44,324 --> 00:52:49,324
I think simplicity is like an add on and elements is like the base layer scripting.

1421
00:52:49,324 --> 00:52:50,324
Whatever it is.

1422
00:52:50,324 --> 00:52:53,324
There's a GitHub repository called the block stream elements.

1423
00:52:53,324 --> 00:52:59,324
This is basically a fork of Bitcoin that has like a lot of this script stuff
re-enabled including opcat.

1424
00:52:59,324 --> 00:53:07,324
I was going to say Robin actually suggested that I ask you about great script
restoration and whether or not we're going to have great script restoration on
e-cash.

1425
00:53:07,324 --> 00:53:14,324
But it sounds like you're more leaning in the direction of just have it being a side
chain with these new like script scripting options.

1426
00:53:14,324 --> 00:53:20,324
Well for the L1 the idea is to just keep it the same as Bitcoin core.

1427
00:53:20,324 --> 00:53:21,324
Yeah.

1428
00:53:21,324 --> 00:53:23,324
Or use these QCF activators.

1429
00:53:23,324 --> 00:53:26,324
So you won't you won't add all these like old legacy opcode.

1430
00:53:26,324 --> 00:53:30,324
So as soon as it happens in Bitcoin we'll just merge it over.

1431
00:53:30,324 --> 00:53:31,324
OK.

1432
00:53:31,324 --> 00:53:35,324
But you're not going to like go rogue and be like we're activating opcat on e-cash
layer.

1433
00:53:35,324 --> 00:53:39,324
There is one thing where because we did not even a covenant Paul.

1434
00:53:39,324 --> 00:53:40,324
Here's the thing.

1435
00:53:40,324 --> 00:53:44,324
I'm going to get to it which is that we had BIP 300 301 with the QCF activator.

1436
00:53:44,324 --> 00:53:55,324
But now people have a second if they're thrown into the ring a second QCF activator
unrelated to the BIP 300 301 one but like forked off of it.

1437
00:53:55,324 --> 00:54:01,324
And that one this is Hunter Beast put in for quantum resistant signature options.

1438
00:54:01,324 --> 00:54:04,324
And then people put opcat and opctv.

1439
00:54:04,324 --> 00:54:05,324
Oh I saw that.

1440
00:54:05,324 --> 00:54:07,324
So there's a second QCF.

1441
00:54:07,324 --> 00:54:14,324
So the question is you know how far are we going to push the envelope on this QCF
thing and we're just going to have 10,000 of them.

1442
00:54:14,324 --> 00:54:20,324
Did Hunter propose the quantum resistant signature QCF for e-cash or for Bitcoin or
both.

1443
00:54:20,324 --> 00:54:21,324
Well it was my idea.

1444
00:54:21,324 --> 00:54:32,324
I said that you know so you can blame me because this is the you know whatever or
unless everyone thinks it's a terrible idea in which case it was hunters or you know
whichever way you want to slice it.

1445
00:54:32,324 --> 00:54:39,324
But it was part of it was I was talking to him and saying listen we have this
enforcer.

1446
00:54:39,324 --> 00:54:42,324
You know BIP 360 is like not going anywhere.

1447
00:54:42,324 --> 00:54:51,324
Let's just like we could like have an enforcer that just does quantum because the
thing is we actually have one L2 that did quantum resistant stuff.

1448
00:54:51,324 --> 00:54:55,324
But but it's not as useful on L2 this quantum resistant thing.

1449
00:54:56,324 --> 00:55:00,324
If you listen to all the people who complain and Nick Carter's and what it needs to
be on.

1450
00:55:00,324 --> 00:55:03,324
They're thinking like OK L1 has all these UTXOs.

1451
00:55:03,324 --> 00:55:15,324
We have to like start like loading them onto the lifeboat like now in order to have
a chance of you know if for those people who think that it's an imminent move them
to quantum resistant.

1452
00:55:15,324 --> 00:55:22,324
Although slipstream could also probably do some interesting recovery work if people
don't end up actually migrating there.

1453
00:55:23,324 --> 00:55:28,324
It would be like a fight in the mud though because it's like you know there's only
one there's only so much space in each block.

1454
00:55:28,324 --> 00:55:29,324
So if you do slipstream.

1455
00:55:29,324 --> 00:55:31,324
Yeah you're muscling someone else out.

1456
00:55:31,324 --> 00:55:37,324
Maybe like you know is it like a mad dash for the fire exit and then highly
imperfect solution.

1457
00:55:37,324 --> 00:55:41,324
Ideally people just migrate in time for quantum but we could.

1458
00:55:41,324 --> 00:55:43,324
And I wanted it was also my idea.

1459
00:55:43,324 --> 00:55:49,324
I said let's just add for you know let's add two lattice to hash or whatever.

1460
00:55:49,324 --> 00:55:52,324
So instead of like bike shed it will just add a bunch of options you know.

1461
00:55:52,324 --> 00:55:59,324
And so I had that which I think is better the least common denominator like when you
know there's four options.

1462
00:55:59,324 --> 00:56:07,324
So this is if because this as as of now this is still kind of experimental and we'd
have to like re which is fine.

1463
00:56:07,324 --> 00:56:13,324
But we have to like retool like the mining script that we run to have two QCFs.

1464
00:56:13,324 --> 00:56:17,324
So because the mining script can only currently run one.

1465
00:56:17,324 --> 00:56:19,324
Well it's not like you do an infinite number.

1466
00:56:19,324 --> 00:56:24,324
Of course it's not a it's not a I'm just saying it's kind of an unexpected direction
that it took.

1467
00:56:24,324 --> 00:56:28,324
That it's like because it was like which stuff should be on L1.

1468
00:56:28,324 --> 00:56:31,324
Actually opcat probably wouldn't be that bad.

1469
00:56:31,324 --> 00:56:34,324
Opcat makes more sense to be on L1 than anywhere else.

1470
00:56:34,324 --> 00:56:36,324
And in quantum also.

1471
00:56:36,324 --> 00:56:43,324
And I was thinking also op vaults because op vault is for like the property rights
type people who want to store it.

1472
00:56:43,324 --> 00:56:46,324
So they don't really want to store it on like the new experimental L2.

1473
00:56:46,324 --> 00:56:47,324
Right.

1474
00:56:47,324 --> 00:56:48,324
They'd rather.

1475
00:56:48,324 --> 00:56:55,324
So I was thinking well can we let's just have another QCF so that the BIF 300 3011
can be fully finished project.

1476
00:56:55,324 --> 00:56:57,324
It'd be ossified you know.

1477
00:56:57,324 --> 00:57:01,324
So we can put like a little like ossified like Michael Saylor.

1478
00:57:01,324 --> 00:57:02,324
Ossified meme.

1479
00:57:02,324 --> 00:57:05,324
Stamp approved you know or whatever.

1480
00:57:05,324 --> 00:57:07,324
And then all softworks are executed by QCF.

1481
00:57:07,324 --> 00:57:09,324
Well yeah that's what I was thinking.

1482
00:57:09,324 --> 00:57:12,324
Then I was like well I mean why not actually because it does make sense.

1483
00:57:12,324 --> 00:57:21,324
But then you can still just keep Bitcoin core the same as you know you can see
e-cash core same as Bitcoin core and you can still merge stuff over.

1484
00:57:21,324 --> 00:57:36,324
The only issue would be if they activate some kind of soft fork that collides with
the op-nop or the op-success like the actual code thing that you like the flag that
you used for opcat or something.

1485
00:57:36,324 --> 00:57:40,324
Then you would have to you could just we could just fix it on our end to update it.

1486
00:57:40,324 --> 00:57:44,324
But that would be the only that would be the only weird thing.

1487
00:57:44,324 --> 00:57:48,324
So it would actually be quite easy to fix on our end.

1488
00:57:48,324 --> 00:57:52,324
I'm just saying that would be the only thing that that could be an issue at all.

1489
00:57:52,324 --> 00:57:59,324
And then we have to ask ourselves how likely is it that any soft fork will actually
activate on Bitcoin ever.

1490
00:57:59,324 --> 00:58:01,324
You know let alone one that would collide.

1491
00:58:01,324 --> 00:58:06,324
I was gonna say it will be easier for soft works for QCF specifically to be
activated on e-cash.

1492
00:58:06,324 --> 00:58:07,324
Or either.

1493
00:58:07,324 --> 00:58:08,324
Well on either.

1494
00:58:08,324 --> 00:58:15,324
But I would say also like let's just say we're going with the QCF that like all soft
works will be activated by QCF on e-cash.

1495
00:58:15,324 --> 00:58:23,324
Assuming that you don't need I mean do you imagine having just as many miners mining
on e-cash as you do on Bitcoin.

1496
00:58:23,324 --> 00:58:24,324
Probably not.

1497
00:58:24,324 --> 00:58:26,324
Well not in terms of the hash rate magnitude.

1498
00:58:26,324 --> 00:58:27,324
What do you think.

1499
00:58:27,324 --> 00:58:28,324
Yeah.

1500
00:58:28,324 --> 00:58:29,324
What are you expecting in terms of hash rate.

1501
00:58:29,324 --> 00:58:33,324
Because if it's lower hash rate then weirdly enough you can get QCF activated more
easily.

1502
00:58:33,324 --> 00:58:34,324
Right.

1503
00:58:34,324 --> 00:58:37,324
Well maybe if just if there are fewer people to coordinate.

1504
00:58:37,324 --> 00:58:38,324
Yeah.

1505
00:58:38,324 --> 00:58:44,324
Well I don't think it comes down to the people either because it's actually not that
large a quantity of people in BTC either.

1506
00:58:44,324 --> 00:58:45,324
You know what I mean.

1507
00:58:45,324 --> 00:58:46,324
Who are actually making decisions.

1508
00:58:46,324 --> 00:58:49,324
It would just be like you know Foundry CEO Mara CEO.

1509
00:58:49,324 --> 00:58:53,324
It would be like seven people really if we really think about it.

1510
00:58:53,324 --> 00:58:54,324
But they.

1511
00:58:54,324 --> 00:58:58,324
But they but they tend to try to do what their constituents want them to do.

1512
00:58:59,324 --> 00:59:05,324
This cliff that says let's just no news is good news or whatever and just we'll just
do all just do nothing.

1513
00:59:05,324 --> 00:59:07,324
Because you don't want to be blamed.

1514
00:59:07,324 --> 00:59:09,324
The problem is that adds up to death by a thousand cuts.

1515
00:59:09,324 --> 00:59:10,324
You know what I mean.

1516
00:59:10,324 --> 00:59:12,324
That's the end up with like the DMV.

1517
00:59:12,324 --> 00:59:14,324
I think they will activate great consensus cleanup.

1518
00:59:14,324 --> 00:59:15,324
I think all the miners will activate.

1519
00:59:15,324 --> 00:59:27,324
I think we're already at like 30 plus percent people like companies that have done
some sort of implementation or given some signal that they're interested in
executing.

1520
00:59:27,324 --> 00:59:28,324
Great consensus cleanup.

1521
00:59:28,324 --> 00:59:29,324
I think that will happen.

1522
00:59:29,324 --> 00:59:30,324
Well you may be right.

1523
00:59:30,324 --> 00:59:40,324
But haven't we seen a long 10 year period where something like builds up a little
bit of support and then everyone's talking about LN hands you know.

1524
00:59:40,324 --> 00:59:42,324
And then everyone's talking about CTV.

1525
00:59:42,324 --> 00:59:50,324
I remember I think in 2023 there at the open source stage in Las Vegas when we
sponsored there everyone's like CTV and everyone people are cheering.

1526
00:59:50,324 --> 00:59:52,324
I mean what became of it.

1527
00:59:52,324 --> 00:59:53,324
I mean fair.

1528
00:59:53,324 --> 00:59:54,324
Fair.

1529
00:59:55,324 --> 01:00:01,324
A lot of like maybe maybe almost not quite.

1530
01:00:01,324 --> 01:00:08,324
I think it would be good for Bitcoin if we could activate soft forks now that with
e-cash I'm like hedging my bet.

1531
01:00:08,324 --> 01:00:14,324
So I'm saying Bitcoin sucks and it's going to crash into a mountainside and it's
going to be a disaster.

1532
01:00:14,324 --> 01:00:17,324
So it's like you think e-cash is that how you see it at the hedge.

1533
01:00:17,324 --> 01:00:18,324
Yeah.

1534
01:00:18,324 --> 01:00:20,324
So it's like if you're right then.

1535
01:00:20,324 --> 01:00:22,324
So it's like I'm playing both sides to some extent.

1536
01:00:22,324 --> 01:00:25,324
So it's like if you're right then that's good for Bitcoin.

1537
01:00:25,324 --> 01:00:28,324
So that's good for my Bitcoin investment and my Bitcoin life.

1538
01:00:28,324 --> 01:00:29,324
Yeah.

1539
01:00:29,324 --> 01:00:30,324
I'm happy about that.

1540
01:00:30,324 --> 01:00:39,324
And then if we can't ever get great consensus cleanup or any other soft fork that's
really good for my e-cash investment and my e-cash life.

1541
01:00:39,324 --> 01:00:40,324
You know what I mean.

1542
01:00:40,324 --> 01:00:42,324
Because it's like I was right about these.

1543
01:00:43,324 --> 01:00:54,324
So that's kind of the point of it all is that we can't afford to leave ourselves
vulnerable to this circus.

1544
01:00:54,324 --> 01:00:55,324
Right.

1545
01:00:55,324 --> 01:00:56,324
I mean.

1546
01:00:56,324 --> 01:00:57,324
Because what's the problem with any.

1547
01:00:57,324 --> 01:00:58,324
What's the problem with Opcat really.

1548
01:00:58,324 --> 01:00:59,324
You know what's the problem with CTV.

1549
01:00:59,324 --> 01:01:00,324
Nothing.

1550
01:01:00,324 --> 01:01:01,324
So.

1551
01:01:01,324 --> 01:01:02,324
But they're not doing it.

1552
01:01:02,324 --> 01:01:03,324
And there's no problem with Bit300 either.

1553
01:01:03,324 --> 01:01:04,324
So problem with any of this stuff.

1554
01:01:04,324 --> 01:01:07,324
Of course again if you ask genius Michael Saylor who knows everything.

1555
01:01:07,324 --> 01:01:09,324
He will say oh we don't need.

1556
01:01:10,324 --> 01:01:11,324
We don't need any code.

1557
01:01:11,324 --> 01:01:13,324
We don't need any developers.

1558
01:01:15,324 --> 01:01:16,324
So there you go.

1559
01:01:16,324 --> 01:01:17,324
He goes back and forth.

1560
01:01:17,324 --> 01:01:18,324
He's very into the quantum thing.

1561
01:01:18,324 --> 01:01:19,324
Yeah.

1562
01:01:19,324 --> 01:01:22,324
But it's almost more annoying that he goes back and forth because then you can't
even.

1563
01:01:22,324 --> 01:01:33,324
Well I think of course Bitcoin is digital money, digital credit, digital property,
digital real estate, digital engine fuel for like a space rocket.

1564
01:01:33,324 --> 01:01:34,324
I saw that on a slide at some point.

1565
01:01:35,324 --> 01:01:37,324
And I'm selling you a Manhattan real estate.

1566
01:01:37,324 --> 01:01:38,324
You know.

1567
01:01:38,324 --> 01:01:41,324
And then it's like it's when hotels first added electricity.

1568
01:01:42,324 --> 01:01:43,324
Oh my gosh.

1569
01:01:44,324 --> 01:01:46,324
So how do people actually add drive chains.

1570
01:01:46,324 --> 01:01:48,324
Like how easeful is this.

1571
01:01:48,324 --> 01:01:51,324
How are you educating people about how they can like start their own drive chain.

1572
01:01:52,324 --> 01:01:56,324
Well in the in the desktop software there is like a screen.

1573
01:01:56,324 --> 01:01:58,324
There's like a tab that shows all the drive chains.

1574
01:01:58,324 --> 01:02:01,324
And there's like a little button that says like propose new.

1575
01:02:01,324 --> 01:02:06,324
And there's how many about right now that are like that you know are likely to
activate initially.

1576
01:02:07,324 --> 01:02:13,324
Well yeah I would say there are like there are seven that are in pretty good shape.

1577
01:02:13,324 --> 01:02:15,324
And then there's like two that are kind of experimental.

1578
01:02:15,324 --> 01:02:17,324
And then there's there's a few more.

1579
01:02:17,324 --> 01:02:18,324
There are there are a few more.

1580
01:02:18,324 --> 01:02:20,324
So I don't know how you know.

1581
01:02:20,324 --> 01:02:23,324
And there's a 256 maximum number.

1582
01:02:23,324 --> 01:02:24,324
Yeah.

1583
01:02:24,324 --> 01:02:28,324
I think that may be misleading or that's true in the BIP.

1584
01:02:28,324 --> 01:02:30,324
The BIP only allows for.

1585
01:02:31,324 --> 01:02:33,324
Two hundred fifty six.

1586
01:02:35,324 --> 01:02:37,324
But actually you can.

1587
01:02:38,324 --> 01:02:40,324
First of all you can have side chains of side chains.

1588
01:02:41,324 --> 01:02:44,324
And then you can actually just you could just do the QC of again.

1589
01:02:45,324 --> 01:02:46,324
Like if they filled out.

1590
01:02:47,324 --> 01:02:49,324
Just add another 255.

1591
01:02:49,324 --> 01:02:53,324
Why did you originally implement a 256 limit?

1592
01:02:53,324 --> 01:02:55,324
We need some way to sort them apart.

1593
01:02:55,324 --> 01:02:56,324
So there's this one byte.

1594
01:02:57,324 --> 01:03:00,324
It has to be in each thing like each marker.

1595
01:03:00,324 --> 01:03:04,324
So it's one byte for every drive chain message.

1596
01:03:04,324 --> 01:03:08,324
So if we wanted to count past 256 we need two bytes.

1597
01:03:08,324 --> 01:03:13,324
That can count to whatever I never do math live on air but it's thirty five thousand
something.

1598
01:03:13,324 --> 01:03:15,324
So that would have been too many.

1599
01:03:15,324 --> 01:03:18,324
And then it would be two bytes taking up each message forever.

1600
01:03:18,324 --> 01:03:19,324
So you know.

1601
01:03:20,324 --> 01:03:21,324
I just want I felt bad for all the.

1602
01:03:22,324 --> 01:03:26,324
All the fiber optic cable in the world and all the routers have to relay every
message.

1603
01:03:26,324 --> 01:03:28,324
And it's consumes a consumed space.

1604
01:03:28,324 --> 01:03:31,324
So she put a four byte version number.

1605
01:03:32,324 --> 01:03:33,324
In each transaction.

1606
01:03:34,324 --> 01:03:35,324
And there's only like three transaction versions.

1607
01:03:35,324 --> 01:03:36,324
So it's four bytes.

1608
01:03:36,324 --> 01:03:38,324
You can count to like four billion or something.

1609
01:03:38,324 --> 01:03:39,324
But we only use three.

1610
01:03:40,324 --> 01:03:43,324
So there's as much as just extra zeros that are just along for the ride.

1611
01:03:43,324 --> 01:03:44,324
You know what I mean.

1612
01:03:44,324 --> 01:03:46,324
It's like if I brought like five or six extra backpacks today that are all empty.

1613
01:03:47,324 --> 01:03:48,324
So most of the ones.

1614
01:03:49,324 --> 01:03:54,324
So you said there's like seven that will actually just be active literally in the
alpha stage.

1615
01:03:54,324 --> 01:03:55,324
Right.

1616
01:03:55,324 --> 01:03:56,324
Essentially.

1617
01:03:56,324 --> 01:03:59,324
And then you imagine there will probably be more that come online for alpha beta.

1618
01:03:59,324 --> 01:04:00,324
Right.

1619
01:04:00,324 --> 01:04:01,324
People will.

1620
01:04:01,324 --> 01:04:03,324
The core problem that the side chain idea solves.

1621
01:04:04,324 --> 01:04:05,324
Is that people disagree.

1622
01:04:06,324 --> 01:04:10,324
Like people think oh you know we need is CTV and then other people say we don't need
CTV.

1623
01:04:11,324 --> 01:04:12,324
So there's a big disagreement.

1624
01:04:12,324 --> 01:04:13,324
And so.

1625
01:04:14,324 --> 01:04:19,324
If we ever reach a situation where someone looks at the entire space of L2's entire
side chain space.

1626
01:04:20,324 --> 01:04:21,324
And they think you know what.

1627
01:04:22,324 --> 01:04:24,324
Out of everything that's offered here.

1628
01:04:26,324 --> 01:04:27,324
I've got something better than all that.

1629
01:04:28,324 --> 01:04:29,324
Then they can launch their new.

1630
01:04:30,324 --> 01:04:31,324
Thing that may be right.

1631
01:04:31,324 --> 01:04:32,324
That may be wrong.

1632
01:04:32,324 --> 01:04:33,324
But.

1633
01:04:34,324 --> 01:04:35,324
They can compete.

1634
01:04:35,324 --> 01:04:36,324
Right.

1635
01:04:36,324 --> 01:04:37,324
This is the core theme.

1636
01:04:38,324 --> 01:04:39,324
Once you hit in theory just theoretically.

1637
01:04:39,324 --> 01:04:40,324
And I know that you can like create a tree and go forever.

1638
01:04:41,324 --> 01:04:42,324
But like in theory if you have 256 chains.

1639
01:04:43,324 --> 01:04:44,324
Is there like a process for booting one.

1640
01:04:45,324 --> 01:04:46,324
To get yours in.

1641
01:04:47,324 --> 01:04:48,324
What's that process.

1642
01:04:49,324 --> 01:04:50,324
It's basically the same.

1643
01:04:51,324 --> 01:04:52,324
The withdrawals are very slow.

1644
01:04:53,324 --> 01:04:54,324
In drive chain.

1645
01:04:55,324 --> 01:04:58,324
And the theory is that the invalid withdrawal would not survive a slow transparent
process.

1646
01:04:59,324 --> 01:05:00,324
Basically one hash.

1647
01:05:01,324 --> 01:05:02,324
That doesn't match.

1648
01:05:03,324 --> 01:05:04,324
Another hash.

1649
01:05:04,324 --> 01:05:06,324
So it's like the guilt can be established and proved immediately.

1650
01:05:07,324 --> 01:05:08,324
To everyone.

1651
01:05:08,324 --> 01:05:09,324
And then it's still got to like.

1652
01:05:10,324 --> 01:05:11,324
Slowly.

1653
01:05:12,324 --> 01:05:13,324
Traverse this like three month process.

1654
01:05:14,324 --> 01:05:15,324
Okay.

1655
01:05:16,324 --> 01:05:17,324
So like how do you enforce people.

1656
01:05:18,324 --> 01:05:19,324
Like let's say I'm like there's 256.

1657
01:05:20,324 --> 01:05:21,324
And I want to come in and introduce my chain.

1658
01:05:22,324 --> 01:05:23,324
And I have to literally like kick somebody out.

1659
01:05:24,324 --> 01:05:25,324
Yeah.

1660
01:05:25,324 --> 01:05:26,324
I'm saying there's like a special kind of withdrawal.

1661
01:05:27,324 --> 01:05:28,324
That.

1662
01:05:28,324 --> 01:05:29,324
Because if you can do that.

1663
01:05:30,324 --> 01:05:31,324
You can already drain the side chain of all of its funds.

1664
01:05:32,324 --> 01:05:33,324
And that's so it's all right.

1665
01:05:34,324 --> 01:05:35,324
Such as I already dead chain walking.

1666
01:05:36,324 --> 01:05:37,324
Kind of in that.

1667
01:05:37,324 --> 01:05:38,324
So there's a different type of withdrawal that basically.

1668
01:05:39,324 --> 01:05:40,324
Renate read names or relabels everything.

1669
01:05:41,324 --> 01:05:42,324
It basically pulls all the money out of that.

1670
01:05:43,324 --> 01:05:44,324
If there is any money in that chain.

1671
01:05:45,324 --> 01:05:46,324
And puts it into like a new.

1672
01:05:47,324 --> 01:05:48,324
Chain.

1673
01:05:49,324 --> 01:05:50,324
And that's basically hard forking the chain.

1674
01:05:51,324 --> 01:05:52,324
Which is essentially just rewriting it from scratch.

1675
01:05:53,324 --> 01:05:54,324
So you could change the.

1676
01:05:55,324 --> 01:05:56,324
You would change the name.

1677
01:05:57,324 --> 01:05:58,324
You could change like the description.

1678
01:05:59,324 --> 01:06:00,324
And like all the stuff that points to like where the.

1679
01:06:01,324 --> 01:06:02,324
Software.

1680
01:06:02,324 --> 01:06:03,324
You would have to have access to that code base essentially.

1681
01:06:04,324 --> 01:06:05,324
No because the.

1682
01:06:05,324 --> 01:06:06,324
What the.

1683
01:06:07,324 --> 01:06:08,324
What we write into.

1684
01:06:09,324 --> 01:06:10,324
This is part of the philosophy of drive chain.

1685
01:06:11,324 --> 01:06:12,324
And it's great strength and weakness.

1686
01:06:13,324 --> 01:06:14,324
Is that the drive chain intentionally.

1687
01:06:15,324 --> 01:06:16,324
Does not actually enforce.

1688
01:06:17,324 --> 01:06:18,324
Like downloading and installing the real.

1689
01:06:19,324 --> 01:06:20,324
Software.

1690
01:06:21,324 --> 01:06:22,324
If it did.

1691
01:06:23,324 --> 01:06:24,324
Then a lot of things would be better.

1692
01:06:25,324 --> 01:06:26,324
But that would be effectively be an infinity.

1693
01:06:27,324 --> 01:06:28,324
Block size increase.

1694
01:06:29,324 --> 01:06:30,324
Because you would just say you're on the hook for.

1695
01:06:31,324 --> 01:06:32,324
All this code now.

1696
01:06:33,324 --> 01:06:34,324
So drive chain has this kind of like light coupling.

1697
01:06:35,324 --> 01:06:36,324
Where things are.

1698
01:06:37,324 --> 01:06:38,324
Connected very tightly.

1699
01:06:39,324 --> 01:06:40,324
Some things are completely disconnected.

1700
01:06:41,324 --> 01:06:42,324
And we tried to go down the line.

1701
01:06:43,324 --> 01:06:44,324
And pick like the perfect formula.

1702
01:06:45,324 --> 01:06:46,324
For which things are connected.

1703
01:06:47,324 --> 01:06:48,324
And which are not.

1704
01:06:49,324 --> 01:06:50,324
So what drive chain does in L1.

1705
01:06:51,324 --> 01:06:52,324
You can you can describe.

1706
01:06:53,324 --> 01:06:54,324
Like the name of the software.

1707
01:06:55,324 --> 01:06:56,324
You can say what is this is the hash.

1708
01:06:57,324 --> 01:06:58,324
Of version one of the software.

1709
01:06:59,324 --> 01:07:00,324
So you can say this is exactly what the source code.

1710
01:07:01,324 --> 01:07:02,324
That you should be running looks like.

1711
01:07:03,324 --> 01:07:04,324
This is a you can have all these things.

1712
01:07:05,324 --> 01:07:06,324
And so that's to get it off the ground.

1713
01:07:07,324 --> 01:07:08,324
But really the software.

1714
01:07:09,324 --> 01:07:10,324
The different software projects.

1715
01:07:11,324 --> 01:07:12,324
Are kind of like alt coins.

1716
01:07:13,324 --> 01:07:14,324
Where there are there their own thing.

1717
01:07:15,324 --> 01:07:16,324
And the person can just do whatever they want.

1718
01:07:17,324 --> 01:07:18,324
As long as they only upgrade by soft fork.

1719
01:07:19,324 --> 01:07:20,324
You know version one of their.

1720
01:07:21,324 --> 01:07:22,324
Code should still work actually.

1721
01:07:23,324 --> 01:07:24,324
So the link going all the way back.

1722
01:07:25,324 --> 01:07:26,324
To version one is that.

1723
01:07:27,324 --> 01:07:28,324
They wanted them all to be compatible.

1724
01:07:29,324 --> 01:07:30,324
With each other and then version one.

1725
01:07:31,324 --> 01:07:32,324
The descriptions of it are.

1726
01:07:33,324 --> 01:07:34,324
Are committed there in the bitcoin.

1727
01:07:35,324 --> 01:07:36,324
For lack of a better word.

1728
01:07:37,324 --> 01:07:38,324
Don't tell Luke they're like in an opera churn.

1729
01:07:39,324 --> 01:07:40,324
Or is it in the opera churn?

1730
01:07:41,324 --> 01:07:42,324
I'm pretty sure actually.

1731
01:07:43,324 --> 01:07:44,324
This whole opera churn thing.

1732
01:07:45,324 --> 01:07:46,324
That would make sense.

1733
01:07:47,324 --> 01:07:48,324
For years and years I was in favor.

1734
01:07:49,324 --> 01:07:50,324
Of getting rid of the opera churn limit.

1735
01:07:51,324 --> 01:07:52,324
It's one of the first things we did when we forked.

1736
01:07:53,324 --> 01:07:54,324
To just have like test drive chain node.

1737
01:07:55,324 --> 01:07:56,324
Was just rip that thing out.

1738
01:07:57,324 --> 01:07:58,324
Because it was completely useless.

1739
01:07:59,324 --> 01:08:00,324
I can't believe that this has become.

1740
01:08:01,324 --> 01:08:02,324
The major talking point for 12 months.

1741
01:08:03,324 --> 01:08:04,324
Is a complete non-issue.

1742
01:08:05,324 --> 01:08:06,324
There's nothing to do with spam.

1743
01:08:07,324 --> 01:08:08,324
It has nothing to do with anything.

1744
01:08:09,324 --> 01:08:10,324
It's just I can't believe that.

1745
01:08:11,324 --> 01:08:12,324
So it's.

1746
01:08:13,324 --> 01:08:14,324
They have activated.

1747
01:08:15,324 --> 01:08:16,324
An incredible marketing campaign.

1748
01:08:17,324 --> 01:08:18,324
I just have to say.

1749
01:08:19,324 --> 01:08:20,324
Like hats tip to them.

1750
01:08:21,324 --> 01:08:22,324
It is amazing how many people.

1751
01:08:23,324 --> 01:08:24,324
They have enrolled in this.

1752
01:08:25,324 --> 01:08:26,324
Absolutely ridiculous campaign.

1753
01:08:27,324 --> 01:08:28,324
I mean bravo really.

1754
01:08:29,324 --> 01:08:30,324
The marketing chops.

1755
01:08:31,324 --> 01:08:32,324
You just get sucked in and you can't.

1756
01:08:33,324 --> 01:08:34,324
You can't even stop talking.

1757
01:08:35,324 --> 01:08:36,324
You just think like you know.

1758
01:08:37,324 --> 01:08:38,324
That's actually the trick for marketing.

1759
01:08:39,324 --> 01:08:40,324
You have to have enough haters.

1760
01:08:41,324 --> 01:08:42,324
You need to have.

1761
01:08:43,324 --> 01:08:44,324
The heel and the jobber.

1762
01:08:45,324 --> 01:08:46,324
Right like in wrestling.

1763
01:08:47,324 --> 01:08:48,324
You have like the person.

1764
01:08:49,324 --> 01:08:50,324
The villain or whatever goes down.

1765
01:08:51,324 --> 01:08:52,324
Yeah right.

1766
01:08:52,324 --> 01:08:53,324
If you don't have haters.

1767
01:08:54,324 --> 01:08:55,324
You're not going to get any attention.

1768
01:08:56,324 --> 01:08:57,324
I mean let's be real.

1769
01:08:58,324 --> 01:08:59,324
Like that's how Twitter works.

1770
01:09:00,324 --> 01:09:01,324
They courted the haters.

1771
01:09:02,324 --> 01:09:03,324
Deliciously just perfectly.

1772
01:09:03,324 --> 01:09:04,324
I don't know anything that happened this week.

1773
01:09:05,324 --> 01:09:06,324
But I will say I actually literally.

1774
01:09:07,324 --> 01:09:08,324
For a solid moment.

1775
01:09:09,324 --> 01:09:10,324
Fell for Ooty's troll.

1776
01:09:11,324 --> 01:09:12,324
About that one time being canceled.

1777
01:09:13,324 --> 01:09:14,324
Well he was always like.

1778
01:09:15,324 --> 01:09:16,324
Pretending to be a supporter.

1779
01:09:17,324 --> 01:09:18,324
He was like in the supporter side.

1780
01:09:19,324 --> 01:09:20,324
And it was like yeah we all know he's trolling.

1781
01:09:21,324 --> 01:09:22,324
But but like the good crypto news.

1782
01:09:23,324 --> 01:09:24,324
I saw that and I was like wait is.

1783
01:09:25,324 --> 01:09:26,324
Like Yahoo picked it up.

1784
01:09:27,324 --> 01:09:28,324
They made it into like the X.

1785
01:09:29,324 --> 01:09:30,324
Sidebar thing.

1786
01:09:31,324 --> 01:09:32,324
I have to backtrack.

1787
01:09:33,324 --> 01:09:34,324
Bip 110 was canceled.

1788
01:09:35,324 --> 01:09:36,324
Oh my God.

1789
01:09:37,324 --> 01:09:38,324
He's going to be so happy.

1790
01:09:39,324 --> 01:09:40,324
I was like you guys.

1791
01:09:41,324 --> 01:09:42,324
I hear Yahoo just reported.

1792
01:09:43,324 --> 01:09:44,324
That Bip 110 is canceled.

1793
01:09:45,324 --> 01:09:46,324
He's a totally master.

1794
01:09:47,324 --> 01:09:48,324
What a great troll you know.

1795
01:09:49,324 --> 01:09:50,324
This is not the first time.

1796
01:09:51,324 --> 01:09:52,324
This is not the first time that.

1797
01:09:53,324 --> 01:09:54,324
Ooty has tricked reporters.

1798
01:09:55,324 --> 01:09:56,324
Remember when he said that.

1799
01:09:57,324 --> 01:09:58,324
Opcat was Bip 420.

1800
01:09:59,324 --> 01:10:00,324
Yeah.

1801
01:10:00,324 --> 01:10:01,324
He is actually the most masterful.

1802
01:10:01,324 --> 01:10:02,324
On the planet.

1803
01:10:03,324 --> 01:10:04,324
He's the number one.

1804
01:10:05,324 --> 01:10:06,324
Luke Luke can't hold a candle to Ooty.

1805
01:10:07,324 --> 01:10:08,324
It's kind of like when they have like.

1806
01:10:09,324 --> 01:10:10,324
It's like crazy beats like smart.

1807
01:10:11,324 --> 01:10:12,324
Beats like it's like whatever it's like.

1808
01:10:13,324 --> 01:10:14,324
Psychopath versus like normal person.

1809
01:10:15,324 --> 01:10:16,324
Versus like crazy person versus clown.

1810
01:10:17,324 --> 01:10:18,324
You know it's like whatever.

1811
01:10:19,324 --> 01:10:20,324
But I think it's.

1812
01:10:21,324 --> 01:10:22,324
I think it's sad that we live in a world.

1813
01:10:23,324 --> 01:10:24,324
Where it is governed by like.

1814
01:10:25,324 --> 01:10:26,324
Who control the best.

1815
01:10:27,324 --> 01:10:28,324
You know isn't that.

1816
01:10:29,324 --> 01:10:30,324
That's not great for us.

1817
01:10:31,324 --> 01:10:32,324
That was pretty impressive.

1818
01:10:33,324 --> 01:10:34,324
But yeah I mean.

1819
01:10:35,324 --> 01:10:36,324
To be fair I think that.

1820
01:10:37,324 --> 01:10:38,324
Yeah I mean this.

1821
01:10:39,324 --> 01:10:40,324
I just don't see how BIP 110.

1822
01:10:41,324 --> 01:10:42,324
If they had any support at all.

1823
01:10:43,324 --> 01:10:44,324
Yeah.

1824
01:10:45,324 --> 01:10:46,324
And they say well we have so many.

1825
01:10:47,324 --> 01:10:48,324
We have 20,000 nodes.

1826
01:10:49,324 --> 01:10:50,324
And it's like of course anyone.

1827
01:10:51,324 --> 01:10:52,324
With the laptop can.

1828
01:10:53,324 --> 01:10:54,324
And 10,000 of them are Luke.

1829
01:10:55,324 --> 01:10:56,324
Yeah you can go on whatever.

1830
01:10:57,324 --> 01:10:58,324
You can go on anywhere.

1831
01:10:59,324 --> 01:11:00,324
You can go to AWS and get.

1832
01:11:01,324 --> 01:11:02,324
They're renting hash power though.

1833
01:11:03,324 --> 01:11:04,324
It's not just nodes they are.

1834
01:11:05,324 --> 01:11:06,324
But I mean it's not going anywhere.

1835
01:11:07,324 --> 01:11:08,324
When you rent the hash power you see.

1836
01:11:09,324 --> 01:11:10,324
What you're really working with which is 2%.

1837
01:11:11,324 --> 01:11:12,324
Which is 2% temporarily.

1838
01:11:13,324 --> 01:11:14,324
Yeah 2% that they finally dragged in.

1839
01:11:15,324 --> 01:11:16,324
And you can see this is nothing like.

1840
01:11:17,324 --> 01:11:18,324
Segwit where.

1841
01:11:19,324 --> 01:11:20,324
Which is what they keep comparing it to is 148.

1842
01:11:21,324 --> 01:11:22,324
The UASF for Segwit.

1843
01:11:23,324 --> 01:11:24,324
Which is like where everyone wanted it.

1844
01:11:25,324 --> 01:11:26,324
And everyone knew that it was at least a quality.

1845
01:11:27,324 --> 01:11:28,324
Item.

1846
01:11:29,324 --> 01:11:30,324
So there you go.

1847
01:11:31,324 --> 01:11:32,324
With the UASF there was.

1848
01:11:33,324 --> 01:11:34,324
Around 20%.

1849
01:11:35,324 --> 01:11:36,324
Supporting it from the beginning.

1850
01:11:37,324 --> 01:11:39,324
So that's at least plausible threat.

1851
01:11:40,324 --> 01:11:42,324
Because when you have 20% hash rate.

1852
01:11:43,324 --> 01:11:44,324
It's a factor of 5.

1853
01:11:45,324 --> 01:11:46,324
It's 1 5th.

1854
01:11:47,324 --> 01:11:48,324
So instead of blocks coming every 10 minutes.

1855
01:11:49,324 --> 01:11:50,324
They'd be every 50 minutes.

1856
01:11:51,324 --> 01:11:52,324
But you can still survive with that.

1857
01:11:53,324 --> 01:11:54,324
And you have to make it 10 weeks.

1858
01:11:55,324 --> 01:11:56,324
For the next difficulty adjustment.

1859
01:11:57,324 --> 01:11:58,324
And then you'd be fine.

1860
01:11:59,324 --> 01:12:00,324
So it's 10 weeks instead of 2 weeks.

1861
01:12:01,324 --> 01:12:02,324
20% you have a very credible threat.

1862
01:12:03,324 --> 01:12:04,324
If you go on a minority hash rate.

1863
01:12:05,324 --> 01:12:06,324
That you will at least live.

1864
01:12:07,324 --> 01:12:08,324
But I don't.

1865
01:12:08,324 --> 01:12:09,324
This is another thing that the 110 people.

1866
01:12:10,324 --> 01:12:11,324
Don't seem to appreciate.

1867
01:12:12,324 --> 01:12:13,324
Which is that with once it drops too low.

1868
01:12:14,324 --> 01:12:15,324
You don't have a credible threat.

1869
01:12:16,324 --> 01:12:17,324
Because if you only have 2%.

1870
01:12:18,324 --> 01:12:19,324
This is a factor of 50 now.

1871
01:12:20,324 --> 01:12:21,324
Instead of every 10 minutes.

1872
01:12:22,324 --> 01:12:23,324
Every 500 minutes.

1873
01:12:24,324 --> 01:12:25,324
Do you find a block.

1874
01:12:26,324 --> 01:12:27,324
And instead of every 2 weeks.

1875
01:12:28,324 --> 01:12:29,324
It's every 100 weeks.

1876
01:12:29,324 --> 01:12:30,324
So it takes you 2 years.

1877
01:12:31,324 --> 01:12:32,324
To get to the next.

1878
01:12:35,324 --> 01:12:36,324
Next difficulty adjustment.

1879
01:12:37,324 --> 01:12:38,324
So of course it's not.

1880
01:12:39,324 --> 01:12:40,324
The credibility is non-linear.

1881
01:12:41,324 --> 01:12:42,324
You know what I mean.

1882
01:12:43,324 --> 01:12:44,324
The credibility falls off a cliff.

1883
01:12:45,324 --> 01:12:46,324
You need to have some minor supporting you.

1884
01:12:47,324 --> 01:12:48,324
Which they didn't even have that.

1885
01:12:49,324 --> 01:12:50,324
This whole thing is an ocean publicity stunt.

1886
01:12:51,324 --> 01:12:52,324
It's hard to say.

1887
01:12:53,324 --> 01:12:54,324
I think it's hurt ocean.

1888
01:12:55,324 --> 01:12:56,324
I think it's really hurt ocean.

1889
01:12:57,324 --> 01:12:58,324
Did you see Jock Mo step down.

1890
01:12:59,324 --> 01:13:00,324
Kind of long overdue.

1891
01:13:01,324 --> 01:13:02,324
And in fact a lot of people would say.

1892
01:13:03,324 --> 01:13:04,324
They would be a little cute.

1893
01:13:05,324 --> 01:13:06,324
About Luke and they would say.

1894
01:13:07,324 --> 01:13:08,324
And including me I would say this too.

1895
01:13:09,324 --> 01:13:10,324
I'd say well Luke is.

1896
01:13:11,324 --> 01:13:12,324
Luke is super smart.

1897
01:13:13,324 --> 01:13:14,324
But Luke is a little crazy.

1898
01:13:15,324 --> 01:13:16,324
But he's actually a genius under the hood.

1899
01:13:17,324 --> 01:13:18,324
All that is kind of true.

1900
01:13:19,324 --> 01:13:20,324
But.

1901
01:13:21,324 --> 01:13:22,324
The idea that.

1902
01:13:23,324 --> 01:13:24,324
This is.

1903
01:13:25,324 --> 01:13:26,324
All this adds up to like a competently run.

1904
01:13:27,324 --> 01:13:28,324
Organization.

1905
01:13:29,324 --> 01:13:30,324
Or a marketing campaign for them.

1906
01:13:31,324 --> 01:13:32,324
I think it's completely discredited them.

1907
01:13:33,324 --> 01:13:34,324
Because they actually were doing something important.

1908
01:13:35,324 --> 01:13:36,324
Like they actually could have done something.

1909
01:13:37,324 --> 01:13:38,324
Well they have a lot of talking points.

1910
01:13:39,324 --> 01:13:40,324
Legitimately important.

1911
01:13:41,324 --> 01:13:42,324
I don't agree with any of that.

1912
01:13:43,324 --> 01:13:44,324
I don't think the end hasher should make the template.

1913
01:13:45,324 --> 01:13:46,324
No you don't.

1914
01:13:47,324 --> 01:13:48,324
I'm a huge supporter of PPS.

1915
01:13:49,324 --> 01:13:50,324
I think PPS is far superior to.

1916
01:13:51,324 --> 01:13:52,324
This.

1917
01:13:53,324 --> 01:13:54,324
Oh interesting.

1918
01:13:55,324 --> 01:13:56,324
So I actually didn't even think any of that.

1919
01:13:57,324 --> 01:13:58,324
What do you think of Stratum V2?

1920
01:13:59,324 --> 01:14:00,324
Oh hot take call.

1921
01:14:01,324 --> 01:14:02,324
It's funny that I would have my own.

1922
01:14:03,324 --> 01:14:04,324
I have pieces of writing.

1923
01:14:05,324 --> 01:14:06,324
We have our own open source mining pool.

1924
01:14:08,324 --> 01:14:09,324
Made by Layer 2 Labs.

1925
01:14:10,324 --> 01:14:11,324
Which E-cash will use.

1926
01:14:12,324 --> 01:14:13,324
But there's also.

1927
01:14:14,324 --> 01:14:15,324
I wrote some blog posts about this.

1928
01:14:16,324 --> 01:14:17,324
About like you know.

1929
01:14:18,324 --> 01:14:19,324
One of them is called like popular mining lies.

1930
01:14:20,324 --> 01:14:21,324
And there's like a whole part about Stratum V2.

1931
01:14:22,324 --> 01:14:23,324
Wait wait wait.

1932
01:14:24,324 --> 01:14:25,324
Can you explain this?

1933
01:14:26,324 --> 01:14:27,324
So you're not like concerned about like minor decentralization.

1934
01:14:27,324 --> 01:14:28,324
Doesn't Stratum V2 fix it?

1935
01:14:29,324 --> 01:14:30,324
This is just a thing.

1936
01:14:31,324 --> 01:14:32,324
People just they can just sprint.

1937
01:14:33,324 --> 01:14:34,324
And just say a bunch of stuff.

1938
01:14:35,324 --> 01:14:36,324
And then everyone will just say oh you know.

1939
01:14:37,324 --> 01:14:38,324
Yeah we all love decentralization.

1940
01:14:39,324 --> 01:14:40,324
This is like.

1941
01:14:41,324 --> 01:14:42,324
What is your argument?

1942
01:14:43,324 --> 01:14:44,324
Why would anyone worship Satan?

1943
01:14:45,324 --> 01:14:46,324
You're going to have to explain this.

1944
01:14:47,324 --> 01:14:48,324
So Stratum V2 is a mixture of a lot of ideas.

1945
01:14:49,324 --> 01:14:50,324
That are not controversial and good.

1946
01:14:51,324 --> 01:14:52,324
So there's a lot of good.

1947
01:14:53,324 --> 01:14:54,324
Yeah a lot of it's just like upgrading.

1948
01:14:55,324 --> 01:14:56,324
Like critical mining.

1949
01:14:57,324 --> 01:14:58,324
We had one person who was a top contributor.

1950
01:14:59,324 --> 01:15:00,324
To Stratum V2 that we hired.

1951
01:15:01,324 --> 01:15:02,324
So one of the one of like the eight.

1952
01:15:03,273 --> 01:15:30,273
Core programmer at Layer 2 Labs. People that's been there a long time as a history
of contributing to Stratum V2 and history with mining. And so a lot of that stuff's
great. Yeah. Then but the big the big like meme the big talking point. Right. Is
this job selection job delegation thing. Right. The idea that like whoever in the
pool hits the block can create their own block template instead of the pool. Yeah. I
think that's a really good point.

1953
01:15:30,273 --> 01:16:00,273
I have many claims about this. Number one what they've proposed doesn't actually
work and it doesn't make any sense. Because the pool can override it anyway. And for
a couple of reasons. Really? Of course because what the pool is the one telling
everyone what to do. So that so it's kind of like it's unclear whether or not this
is supposed to be something where the pool says we will allow you to like we'll
support this and we'll allow you to like tell us what you think. Because the pool
itself is permissioned basically. Yeah right. You can kick anyone off anyway.

1954
01:16:00,273 --> 01:16:30,273
If somebody is like generating blocks that aren't you know whatever OFAC compliant
or whatever the government forces you to do. Let me ask you this. Let's say we have
a pool over there. This is one of these cameras or something. And this is the pool.
And me and you both mine at the pool. OK. And you they implement this job selection
idea which is you know you'll see how bad it is in a second. Let's each of us choose
what the pool does. What if we pick different things. What if I say we're going to
mine transactions that pay that all pay no fee zero fee. So the block is worth very
little.

1955
01:16:30,273 --> 01:16:55,273
And you do a normal thing. You just say we're just going to put whatever pays the
most fee which is what everyone does. OK. Then it goes to the pool and then the pool
says well you know like you know if we find the block that means I overwrite your
preference or if you then you overwrite mine or you know do we take turns or the
whole idea is like convoluted. It doesn't make any sense even in its own terms.

1956
01:16:56,273 --> 01:16:59,273
OK. Well I'm going to have to not trust and verify all this.

1957
01:16:59,273 --> 01:17:09,273
Yeah. Check it all out. I have long I have a giant screed against this job selection
idea. And first of all no one has ever asked for this. And when it's implemented no
one takes anyone up on it either.

1958
01:17:09,273 --> 01:17:12,273
So you will not be implementing an e-cash stratum v2.

1959
01:17:12,273 --> 01:17:14,273
I'm not interested in this job selection thing.

1960
01:17:15,273 --> 01:17:32,273
Well I think it's better is to have the accountability for pools where the pool says
hey listen I am doing everything I can to maximize the value of this block and then
turn that money over to you. And that's exactly what PPS does. So PPS is perfect. So
this is where we do the pool.

1961
01:17:32,273 --> 01:17:35,273
There are open source pools for PPS.

1962
01:17:35,273 --> 01:17:44,273
Are you not concerned about you know like governments or whoever like holding a gun
to the heads of the CEOs of these pools and like forcing them to do stuff against
their will.

1963
01:17:45,273 --> 01:17:59,273
OK well how does stratum v2 help. Like what if the pool says they hold the guns to
the pool's head and they say you're going to do this from now on and you're going to
say that it was because of a little minor one a little tiny little minor on the pie
chart. And you're going to say this is to protect mining decentralization.

1964
01:17:59,273 --> 01:18:11,273
So you're going to evade accountability. You're going to lie to everyone and say
this is all because of stratum v2 told you to do this this thing that never minds
any blocks and that's how we're going to keep transactions we don't like out of the
Bitcoin blockchain.

1965
01:18:12,273 --> 01:18:25,273
So isn't that way worse. Whereas in my thing the pool now has to turn to a different
gun that's pointed at their head which is that they're they're customers who could
all leave and they have to say sorry guys we found a block but we didn't collect any
transaction fees this time.

1966
01:18:26,273 --> 01:18:33,273
And is that you OK with spending 100 percent of your expenses millions of dollars on
electricity and getting zero revenue. Are you guys we're all good with that.

1967
01:18:34,273 --> 01:18:38,273
This might be the spiciest of all of your takes. It might be maybe number one.

1968
01:18:39,273 --> 01:18:50,273
Well because it speaks to like we've this cold card thing it's all related. People
have built these sacred cows you know they've said oh lightning is how we scale
Bitcoin in no shit coins blah blah blah.

1969
01:18:50,273 --> 01:19:02,273
We don't want even we don't even want to have the ledger because the ledger could
touch a shit coin. And so then we'd have to just go kill ourselves. So then it's
like this is what we've all built.

1970
01:19:03,273 --> 01:19:13,273
It's coming out. I mean excuse me ledger is coming up roses and they're coming out.
Everyone's this is basic software modularity to about like when you we have all
these things they're very complicated.

1971
01:19:14,273 --> 01:19:29,273
You just have people stay in their own lane. You say this is the best way to add two
numbers. You know this is the best way to have use USB USB port. You know what I
mean. You standardize everything so that you simply re-simplify it all.

1972
01:19:30,273 --> 01:19:37,273
And this is like you don't have all this weird stuff. Oh this is the one. This is
the hardware wallet for all crypto currencies. This is the one only for Bitcoin.

1973
01:19:37,273 --> 01:19:51,273
So it doesn't make sense actually. Even the whole hardware idea. That is the best
way though to get customers in our community is basically it's like you don't
actually have to explain why your thing is the most secure. You just say it's
Bitcoin only.

1974
01:19:52,273 --> 01:20:00,273
And then everyone drops their guard. So unfortunately that is they trust you because
you're Bitcoin only not because you prove that you're trustworthy and you didn't
even prove you're Bitcoin only really.

1975
01:20:01,273 --> 01:20:12,273
But I mean I probably they are. This is part of the security marketing. The line or
they say the line and everyone drops their guard which is and now the chickens have
come home to roost on that.

1976
01:20:13,273 --> 01:20:22,273
So that's that's good thing because hopefully there'll be some cultural improvement
and accountability for quote unquote Bitcoin only companies that you know were
otherwise just kind of coasting.

1977
01:20:22,273 --> 01:20:32,273
I don't think people will fall for it anymore. What they'll just say. Oh yeah. You
know like there is no second best or whatever. People just say oh yeah he's one of
us and we'll just not we'll not think about any of this.

1978
01:20:33,273 --> 01:20:42,273
The Bitcoin maxi culture has been I think rapidly evolved has been changing for the
past since Ordinal's basically since the advent of Ordinal's it's been like now two
three years that it's been evolving.

1979
01:20:43,273 --> 01:20:53,273
Well it's taking too long to collapse and for I really think it's since the block
size war it has been getting less healthy under the hood. But you don't you don't
see it like a block size.

1980
01:20:54,273 --> 01:21:04,273
Because it was I feel like peak Bitcoin maximalism was like 20 21 20. It was
extremely it was actually very healthy form of maximalism pre block size war.

1981
01:21:04,273 --> 01:21:13,273
OK. So before the block size war everyone took it for granted that Bitcoin will win.
All the other projects are just distractions and they're just trying to separate you
from your Bitcoin.

1982
01:21:14,273 --> 01:21:22,273
And whenever people would make a new altcoin they would say oh yeah we know the
creator is selling this altcoin and pocketing a bunch of Bitcoin for himself. He's
the one buying all the Bitcoin.

1983
01:21:23,273 --> 01:21:33,273
This is basically the same thing as micro strategy by the way as he gives people a
bunch of stock. And meanwhile who has the Bitcoin who has the private keys not the
shareholder.

1984
01:21:34,273 --> 01:21:46,273
But anyway the point is it was very very healthy. Then when the block size war
happened there it cast doubt on the future of Bitcoin because it was like there's
now two instead of us all being united there's now two ways you can go.

1985
01:21:46,273 --> 01:21:53,273
Large block small block. And then a theorem theorem was nothing until 2016 when the
block size was sort of heating up.

1986
01:21:54,273 --> 01:22:02,273
And it was clear also that we had two scaling Bitcoin conferences at the end of
2015. But then the 2016 one wasn't like 10 11 months later.

1987
01:22:03,273 --> 01:22:08,273
So there was a long period in 2016 of just like anxiety and confusion. Ethereum kind
of rocketed into the scene.

1988
01:22:08,273 --> 01:22:20,273
And now it was like oh you can compete with Bitcoin maybe smart contracts maybe all
this governance all this other stuff. So it was very healthy then. And then it's
been getting worse.

1989
01:22:21,273 --> 01:22:29,273
I agree with you that the. Twenty twenty one was maybe when it's it had its apparent
like height.

1990
01:22:30,273 --> 01:22:34,273
It was like mimetic maximalist unification or something.

1991
01:22:35,273 --> 01:22:40,273
Of course it was a bull market because of Covid and our governments all the
governments printed all this money and made the price go up.

1992
01:22:41,273 --> 01:22:46,273
That's right. So that always helps. Price has not been going. Bitcoin was winning in
twenty twenty one.

1993
01:22:47,273 --> 01:22:53,273
And it was just easier. It was like we usually have people had optimized the talking
points like all you need to do is buy this and then do nothing.

1994
01:22:54,273 --> 01:23:00,273
So people kind of optimize all that. As a result there's been a lot of malinvestment
because a lot of people have made that their whole identity.

1995
01:23:01,273 --> 01:23:11,273
You know what I mean. I'm not talking about malinvestment in Bitcoin. I mean like
people have deployed like books and podcasts and things that are just kind of saying
conferences that just say oh yeah.

1996
01:23:12,273 --> 01:23:19,273
All you need to do is not think about anything at all. And and then just buy this
thing and it's guaranteed to go up. And so all that.

1997
01:23:20,273 --> 01:23:24,273
I mean it's a great engagement. Being simple is a good engagement strategy.

1998
01:23:25,273 --> 01:23:34,273
Nuance is not. I mean I have learned definitely the hard way that nuance is not
usually like broadly accepted by them.

1999
01:23:35,273 --> 01:23:42,273
It doesn't it doesn't hit wide but I think it hits deep. You hit like a few smart
people. Well and then people can people can be early. So that's the alpha.

2000
01:23:43,273 --> 01:23:46,273
You get to be nice. It's not alpha unless most people don't believe you. Right.

2001
01:23:46,273 --> 01:23:55,273
OK. So alpha is the difficulty after BIP 110 and then beta. Do you have dates for
beta and mainnet or not yet.

2002
01:23:56,273 --> 01:24:06,273
Well I think it's easier to do when it's on a difficulty adjustment. So it'll
probably be the public four weeks after August 23rd.

2003
01:24:07,273 --> 01:24:09,273
OK. You know and then four and then maybe four or six weeks.

2004
01:24:10,273 --> 01:24:14,273
You'll do them like a month apart. And the idea is that people will be able to like
test out everything they need and alpha and beta.

2005
01:24:14,273 --> 01:24:24,273
This should answer all of your questions in a way because it's like here it is. You
get it's almost like you get to time travel to the past like twice except obviously
it won't really be time travel.

2006
01:24:25,273 --> 01:24:28,273
But it'll be like you get to the future. Right. You'll say this is exactly what it
will be like.

2007
01:24:29,273 --> 01:24:36,273
And so then you know people do some weird things. I would imagine for the because we
plan also to have the redeem at some rate.

2008
01:24:37,273 --> 01:24:41,273
So if you if you collect the test coins you can turn them in for real e-cash at some
rate.

2009
01:24:41,273 --> 01:24:44,273
You're making Bitcoiners rich with extra free.

2010
01:24:45,273 --> 01:24:57,273
So these would be worth like some 1 percent or half a percent or something of the
because of course probably very few people participate in relative in terms of
amassing a huge amount of coins to turn in.

2011
01:24:58,273 --> 01:25:00,273
I'm not sure I'm explaining this point well but the point is.

2012
01:25:01,273 --> 01:25:06,273
You're saying people will basically get free coins de facto. If you get free coins
each time you're going to get de facto e-cash.

2013
01:25:06,273 --> 01:25:16,273
Yeah you get free coins each time. But what I'm saying is if you actually collect
the alpha coins you turn them in for some real coins you know maybe like 500 to 1 or
like 100 to 1.

2014
01:25:17,273 --> 01:25:19,273
This is what we were talking about. We want to make sure we covered it.

2015
01:25:20,273 --> 01:25:24,273
OK so basically you're going to incent effectively you're incentivize people to use
alpha and beta.

2016
01:25:25,273 --> 01:25:29,273
If you think the ultimate coins will have some value this will have some portion of
that value.

2017
01:25:29,273 --> 01:25:33,273
So you can kind of use some incentive to get involved to try to collect these these
coins.

2018
01:25:34,273 --> 01:25:39,273
And if you screw up you know these are just free coins that you don't worry about it
because there'll be another test and then they'll be the real thing.

2019
01:25:40,273 --> 01:25:44,273
So people get to practice a few times. One thing people can practice with the
transaction replay.

2020
01:25:45,273 --> 01:25:52,273
You can see there will be a bunch of people probably who do nothing and you can
maybe try to take their e-cash.

2021
01:25:53,273 --> 01:26:01,273
I would want to practice my replay protection transactions on alpha or beta before I
did it in real life.

2022
01:26:02,273 --> 01:26:05,273
Precisely. And I think it's also like a phrase that gives people a little anxiety.

2023
01:26:06,273 --> 01:26:11,273
So we'll just say this is you know this is exactly what it this is what will happen.

2024
01:26:12,273 --> 01:26:14,273
So I think maybe that will help a little bit.

2025
01:26:15,273 --> 01:26:18,273
At the same time if there's no stakes you know that's just a little too boring.

2026
01:26:18,273 --> 01:26:23,273
You know what I mean. It's like I think you can only coddle people so much. Right.

2027
01:26:24,273 --> 01:26:26,273
So it's like I guess. Yeah. I mean yeah.

2028
01:26:27,273 --> 01:26:31,273
If you're comfortable with the replay protection mechanism then you can just go sell
your e-cash.

2029
01:26:32,273 --> 01:26:33,273
Right. Or you could just do that.

2030
01:26:34,273 --> 01:26:37,273
Another thing is I'm sure a lot of people will do nothing which is what most people
do.

2031
01:26:38,273 --> 01:26:39,273
That's perfectly fine. That's great.

2032
01:26:40,273 --> 01:26:41,273
Great. I will neither buy nor sell.

2033
01:26:42,273 --> 01:26:45,273
And I think that's actually very fair.

2034
01:26:45,273 --> 01:26:55,273
Certainly if you're one of these buy and hold bitcoiners you know as long as you're
not touching your BTC the e-cash will be there waiting for you like forever until
you touch the BTC.

2035
01:26:56,273 --> 01:26:57,273
So there's no rush.

2036
01:26:58,273 --> 01:27:02,273
Right. So there's no rush. I mean I'm very much in favor of people thinking about it
very slowly.

2037
01:27:03,273 --> 01:27:04,273
I think that will give me the edge.

2038
01:27:05,273 --> 01:27:08,273
That gives me an advantage because these ideas are pretty good.

2039
01:27:08,273 --> 01:27:15,273
But the question is are they ahead of their time or are they you know in the wrong
time somehow.

2040
01:27:16,273 --> 01:27:18,273
People seem to appreciate generally speaking the way that you're handling this.

2041
01:27:19,273 --> 01:27:21,273
You know just the posture with which you're executing this.

2042
01:27:22,273 --> 01:27:26,273
Right. I mean you're kind of again you're sort of doing the opposite of the bit 110.

2043
01:27:27,273 --> 01:27:28,273
I know it's very funny.

2044
01:27:29,273 --> 01:27:36,273
And then even for me the 110 you know they since their thing is about to fail like
literally days away from from failing.

2045
01:27:36,273 --> 01:27:37,273
Two days from now.

2046
01:27:38,273 --> 01:27:43,273
They have to basically scramble to do the intentional hard fork.

2047
01:27:44,273 --> 01:27:47,273
So the question is how much of my are they going to be copying my tests for that or
like.

2048
01:27:48,273 --> 01:27:50,273
So that is real. They're going to do a hard fork. Is that what they're saying?

2049
01:27:51,273 --> 01:27:54,273
Well I just think it's the well what are their options really.

2050
01:27:55,273 --> 01:27:57,273
Their options are like say we were wrong the whole time and you know.

2051
01:27:58,273 --> 01:27:59,273
So how likely is that.

2052
01:28:00,273 --> 01:28:01,273
It's a safe face they now need to work for.

2053
01:28:01,273 --> 01:28:07,273
They need to say we have to fire the miners because they're not doing the right
thing which is agreeing with Luke all the time about everything.

2054
01:28:08,273 --> 01:28:09,273
Firing the miners means just hard forking.

2055
01:28:10,273 --> 01:28:11,273
That's what that means.

2056
01:28:12,273 --> 01:28:14,273
You know it's funny because I'm hard forking but I keep it shot to 56 D.

2057
01:28:15,273 --> 01:28:17,273
So the miners can freely travel back and forth.

2058
01:28:18,273 --> 01:28:19,273
We want the Bitcoin miners to mine e-cash too.

2059
01:28:20,273 --> 01:28:25,273
I don't see any particular you know changing the proof of work algorithm kind of
just buys you a little bit of time and then there's a new equilibrium or something.

2060
01:28:26,273 --> 01:28:27,273
So I don't see why I would want to.

2061
01:28:28,273 --> 01:28:31,273
Why would I want to make all of the miners into a natural enemy of the project.

2062
01:28:32,273 --> 01:28:35,273
You know what I mean. Because if my thing starts to succeed super super super well.

2063
01:28:36,273 --> 01:28:40,273
Then suddenly all the miners will think wait a minute.

2064
01:28:41,273 --> 01:28:43,273
This thing may which may not be charged to be six mine.

2065
01:28:44,273 --> 01:28:45,273
Now this is a threat to us.

2066
01:28:46,273 --> 01:28:49,273
We need what we need to do is immediately activate BIP 300 on BTC or whatever.

2067
01:28:49,273 --> 01:28:54,273
But actually in that scenario that's not the last thing I would want is to finally
be succeeding on this.

2068
01:28:55,273 --> 01:29:00,273
There's one idea and then turn the BTC project into something that would then you
know because you see what I mean.

2069
01:29:01,273 --> 01:29:03,273
It just turns into a thing where no one is winning actually.

2070
01:29:04,273 --> 01:29:05,273
It just makes it kind of confusing.

2071
01:29:06,273 --> 01:29:10,273
So but with Luke they really are going to just do it for some kind of ideological
reason.

2072
01:29:11,273 --> 01:29:15,273
And I have to start over with very low hash rate which like apparently they want to
do.

2073
01:29:15,273 --> 01:29:18,273
But I think this is this just adds further to the humiliation.

2074
01:29:19,273 --> 01:29:20,273
I think you know you can't even know you can't even compare it.

2075
01:29:21,273 --> 01:29:22,273
It's not apples to apples anymore.

2076
01:29:23,273 --> 01:29:27,273
You can't even compare the because at one point you did ask about how much hashing
there would be.

2077
01:29:28,273 --> 01:29:29,273
In my view is the hat.

2078
01:29:30,273 --> 01:29:34,273
The amount of hashing is exactly proportional to the block value.

2079
01:29:35,273 --> 01:29:40,273
You know so like if the e-cash block is you know the Bitcoin block could be worth
you know whatever three Bitcoin.

2080
01:29:41,273 --> 01:29:42,273
You know it depends on the fees and things.

2081
01:29:42,273 --> 01:29:43,273
But it could be like a few Bitcoin.

2082
01:29:44,273 --> 01:29:47,273
So it's a couple hundred thousand dollars maybe maybe more maybe less.

2083
01:29:48,273 --> 01:29:54,273
And then so versus one hundred thousand dollars per block e-cash block could be
worth you know like one thousand dollars or whatever less or more.

2084
01:29:55,273 --> 01:29:56,273
But you know the point is that's how much hashing there will be.

2085
01:29:57,273 --> 01:29:58,273
It all just follow that around.

2086
01:29:59,273 --> 01:30:01,273
There's no infrastructure for this BIP 110 hard fork right.

2087
01:30:02,273 --> 01:30:05,273
That's the other thing is I thought sell your BIP 110 Bitcoin.

2088
01:30:06,273 --> 01:30:09,273
To me I was thinking like I got to announce this four months in advance.

2089
01:30:09,273 --> 01:30:10,273
So at least people like have this on their radar.

2090
01:30:11,273 --> 01:30:20,273
And that was after getting like the name the domain the you know like charting out
like what it would do and what it would like before.

2091
01:30:21,273 --> 01:30:25,273
And all the you know all the details like we will activate it with a one time
difficulty drop.

2092
01:30:26,273 --> 01:30:27,273
It will still be shot to 56 mine.

2093
01:30:28,273 --> 01:30:29,273
All that stuff was like in the announcement.

2094
01:30:30,273 --> 01:30:32,273
You know all this stuff about the replay protection that was in the announcement.

2095
01:30:33,273 --> 01:30:41,273
And now my question is are the 110 people going to just do it like you know just you
know start immediately and fire the starting gun and everyone just like that.

2096
01:30:43,273 --> 01:30:46,273
When will the when will their hard fork launch.

2097
01:30:47,273 --> 01:30:51,273
Will it launch like on Monday or like you know or like six months from now or.

2098
01:30:52,273 --> 01:30:54,273
So that's that's a funny thing to me.

2099
01:30:54,273 --> 01:31:02,273
And if they are going to change the algo like have they totally decided on which
algo.

2100
01:31:03,273 --> 01:31:05,273
And then if so did they know about it the whole time like are they building.

2101
01:31:06,273 --> 01:31:07,273
No they're scrambling.

2102
01:31:08,273 --> 01:31:11,273
So it's just I think it is quite funny how different different it is.

2103
01:31:12,273 --> 01:31:16,273
I was like completely trying to like give people a lot of time to think.

2104
01:31:17,273 --> 01:31:21,273
And they are really running it on like emotional fumes and just saying like blah
blah blah you know.

2105
01:31:21,273 --> 01:31:29,273
So that's so that's baffling to me if people want if people want that I think they
will regret it one day.

2106
01:31:30,273 --> 01:31:32,273
Prepping a hard work two days before activation.

2107
01:31:33,273 --> 01:31:34,273
I don't know yet.

2108
01:31:35,273 --> 01:31:38,273
It seems like you're making your life much harder for no reason.

2109
01:31:39,273 --> 01:31:40,273
I don't know why they would do.

2110
01:31:41,273 --> 01:31:42,273
Well we will see in a couple of days.

2111
01:31:43,273 --> 01:31:45,273
I'm fairly sure I'll be able to get this podcast out the day before.

2112
01:31:46,273 --> 01:31:47,273
Yeah.

2113
01:31:48,273 --> 01:31:49,273
And we will just watch the show.

2114
01:31:49,273 --> 01:31:50,273
Paul thank you so much for coming on.

2115
01:31:51,273 --> 01:31:52,273
This is really fun.

2116
01:31:53,273 --> 01:31:56,273
As always you are the first person I think I've ever had on the show three times
now.

2117
01:31:57,273 --> 01:32:00,273
So congratulations for being my my my most prolific guest.

2118
01:32:01,273 --> 01:32:02,273
Thanks so much for having me.

2119
01:32:03,273 --> 01:32:04,273
Yeah.

2120
01:32:04,273 --> 01:32:05,273
Thank you.

2121
01:32:06,273 --> 01:32:07,273
And we'll see what happens Saturday.