1
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What's up, party people? This is Alex Waltz, and this is Paul Sztorc, and this is
Bitcoin Reservations.

2
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Yes, it is. So, Alex, I hear you are giving away a lot of your treasured Bitcoin
books.

3
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Yeah, that is very true. So, over these years, I accumulated a lot of like Bitcoin
shit, and

4
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now I don't want any more, and instead of throwing it away,

5
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let's use this opportunity to get some subscribers to our channel.

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We're going to sell out in a way. We're going to bribe people, not with money, but
with

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cool books that have been signed by the authors.

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Yes, that is very true. And speaking of, so I have Alden Antonopoulos books here.

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This is one of them, and it's signed by him.

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Look at that.

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And then we also have the well-known Mastering Bitcoin here.

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It's also signed by him.

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That's a good one.

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Yeah, we will have the second volume of the other one, also signed by Andreas.

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Oh, wow, you're a real collector.

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And then we also have a Mastering Shitcoins by...

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There we go. And is it signed by Gavin Wood also?

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No. Oh my God, is this one not signed or something? I don't know. Maybe this one
isn't signed.

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And then we also... Okay, so that's the Andreas books, by the way.

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And then I have a Grokking Bitcoin here, which is not signed.

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Excellent book, though.

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Super good books. Super. I recommend it to anyone.

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It really brings light to a lot of things. Super great book.

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You really will Grok Bitcoin if you read it.

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I don't know. I don't know if anyone will ever Grok Bitcoin, but that book comes
close.

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Yeah, I mean, I just liked it.

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And then there's the Safedin book here.

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Oh, no. Oh my God, it's signed to you.

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By the way, all these books are signed to me personally.

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They all say Alex in them? None of them just say...

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All of them say Alex.

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Okay, wait, wait. No, if you have a friend named Alex.

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If you have a friend or like a nephew named Alex or something.

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I mean, wait.

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No, that one said Alex Waltz. I saw it in the other one.

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There's more. There's more. And here's the Jordan Peterson one.

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Is it signed by him?

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Yes, it is. But he says Alex Waltz because they misspelled my name in the signing of
the book.

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With an F?

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Yeah, I have a crazy story there, but I'm going to look after it.

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Okay, wait, there's more swag. There's more shit.

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There's the open dimes here.

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There's one pack has one limited edition one.

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Those are great.

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And also this power things here.

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Shout outs to, you know, Rodolfo.

47
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Exactly.

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He gave me... I was in... I met him in...

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Oh, something really loud is happening outside.

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I met him in... whatever.

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Satoshi Roundtable, and he gave me a bunch of those.

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They're great.

53
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This is really cool.

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They're very fun. It's fun to just have something physical, you know,

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because Bitcoin is so intangible.

56
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Yeah, well, wait, there's more.

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It's fun about the open dimes.

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There's more items. So there's two packs of them.

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This one has two special edition ones.

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And wait, wait, wait, there's still more to come.

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There's still more to come.

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And there's some overinflated money.

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There's some Zimbabwe currency here.

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We have quite a few of this.

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You're a Bitcoiner, you love that Zimbabwe stuff.

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It's great.

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Oh, my God.

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I had someone ask me...

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For some reason, people struggle with that kind of thing.

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I had a Zimbabwe thing.

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I have like a little tray near where you come into my house.

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And I had money from all around the world there.

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For whenever I would travel, I'd bring some back.

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So it was cool.

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So it was like, there's a bunch of money there.

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But on closer inspection,

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you see all the coins are like different shapes and sizes and things.

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And some of it...

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I had a Zimbabwe, 100 million Zimbabwe note.

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And people were like, that's not real.

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And I was like, it's real.

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People have a lot of...

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People have trouble grasping this whole...

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A lot of these money concepts that...

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It's really real, but it's really not worth anything.

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But people are like, that's not real.

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That's fake.

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I'm like, no, it's real.

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It's just... It's not worth anything.

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Anyway, what do you got other than Zimbabwe?

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Everyone's got...

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Every Bitcoiner has got a Zimbabwe thing already.

93
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We have the...

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Some Venezuelan money.

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Some...

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This is some really old...

97
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What do you call it?

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German money.

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And I got this one.

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Oh, by the way.

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And this one I got from Rockstar Div

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at the Lightning Conference in Berlin.

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Okay.

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The...

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What the heck is that?

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I don't know.

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It's some fucking Eastern European shit.

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I don't know what it is.

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You don't know?

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But you're from Eastern Europe.

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Yeah, but I don't...

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So this one's I got from the guys who make Spectre.

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This one's the Venezuelan ones.

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Shout out to Morris and Stefan.

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They're doing some really crazy things.

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By the way, here's the...

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This one's I also got from Morris.

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The weird Dutch one.

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Sorry, German ones.

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Here's the kicker.

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The Zimbabwe dollars,

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I bought them off Alex Bosworth

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at the Lightning Conference with a Lightning payment.

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I have proof of that.

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I have proof of that.

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You have proof on the blockchain.

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Can you print it out?

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No, I haven't.

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I haven't signed the paper

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because I said,

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motherfucker, you need to sign this.

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And he signed it, by the way.

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I thought you were going to say you had like proof,

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like you could print out the...

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You had like a Merkle path to the blockchain.

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You could like prove that something happened.

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Okay, so all this fucking swag.

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All this fucking swag.

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Okay.

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First of all, if it was custodial,

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you didn't pay with Lightning.

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That's I'm just saying.

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Anyway, all this swag here is going to be given away.

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Make sure to follow BTC.

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What's our gimmick?

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If you follow, you can get it?

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Yeah, you have to follow and read.

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We're going to make a tweet.

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And you have to like and retweet the tweet.

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You have to follow us on Twitter,

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which is btcreservation.

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Add btcreservations.

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And that's just it.

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If you do those things,

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we're going to split this up into how many prices we want,

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probably free.

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And we're going to be sure to look out for the tweet

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in the show notes.

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And you get all the shit free.

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Okay, Paul.

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Yeah, but it's time to Alex.

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Give it to someone, a friend of yours named Alex.

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Well, actually, think about it.

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This is actually double the value

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because when I'm going to be super famous and whatever.

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Yeah, that's true.

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Guys, honestly, it's, you know, it's possible.

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Well, let me ask.

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He did start one Bitcoin business in the past at some point.

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And then he got robbed.

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So he at least had enough money to get robbed.

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That's more than most people.

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That's the thing.

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Imagine that's going to be worth millions.

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It's the guy who got robbed.

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The guy got robbed.

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Local Bitcoin still has his $408 billion.

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Well, anyway,

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Just waiting for someone to claim it.

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Well, I have a question for you, though.

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So I'm putting out these books, which are worth some money.

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Are you going to pay for the shipping, though?

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That's a good question.

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Oh, you're saying this is my contribution.

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Yeah, you have to pay for the shipping.

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You have the books and I have to pay for the shipping.

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Yeah.

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Can we find like a quirky Bitcoin way to ship things?

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Like, is there like BitShip or something?

190
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No, don't worry about it.

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If we're going to do that,

192
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we're definitely going to do it in the convoluted wannabe Bitcoin way.

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The question is like, if you want to pass by.

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Okay, sure.

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But then, wait, but then whoever this has to reveal

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their mailing address to me or their post office box or whatever.

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Well, how the fuck else are we going to?

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They're probably going to have to do it to me.

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Because I'm going to send them off.

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This is why we needed Dropzone.

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The most important project ever that never materialized.

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Yeah.

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And imagine like people would be shipping heroin

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and it would be us signing books with my name on shipping.

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Exactly.

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The original, the white paper called for distributing Bibles in North Korea,

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which I was like, genius.

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Wait, what?

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You don't know what I'm talking about.

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There was a Dropzone white paper.

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And I think that Rose had something to do with that project.

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So they say.

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But there was a pretext.

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The paper was not about drugs.

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It was about sending Christian Bibles to North Korea.

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Because the authors of the paper understood the power of the pretext.

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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I don't remember that.

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I don't remember that.

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Yeah, it's true.

221
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:14,920
You can look it up.

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Not a lot of people know about it.

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Well, anyway, do we have some shout outs?

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We do have the shout outs.

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Yeah.

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Because you mentioned BTC reservation.

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Does it have an S or no?

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00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:27,560
The Twitter account?

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00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:28,440
It does, I think.

230
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But the question is, does it still spelled wrong in the title?

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Do you know I didn't see that?

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00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,240
That's the Brian shout out.

233
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,280
Well, we have Sergey of Bitrefill.

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Shout out to him.

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He follows us there.

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I don't know why.

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Yeah, I don't know why either.

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I don't know why anyone would ever follow us.

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00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,800
And then we have Jack of Thunder Games.

240
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I don't know who that is.

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That's your friend?

242
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Yeah, he followed because he knows me probably.

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Yeah.

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Shout out to him anyway.

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Cool guy.

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Plays guitar.

247
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,840
Does some Bitcoin lightning game stuff.

248
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,320
Brian Armstrong of Open Bazaar.

249
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:06,440
Yep, correct.

250
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:07,400
Good old Brian Armstrong.

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00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:08,120
Our favorite Brian.

252
00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:11,720
And then, yeah, Bidejo, my friend Bidejo.

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I got this microphone now.

254
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,240
You know, I was like, I don't want to have a weird, creepy microphone with a stand
because,

255
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,880
you know, I'm like, I don't know, like this weird thing will be in my house and
it'll be like,

256
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:28,760
I don't know, like it just seemed like such a big,

257
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,480
like it seems like such a big step, like, you know, like putting so much effort in.

258
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It's called being an adult and taking responsibility.

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00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,480
Well, then I went on Amazon and it was like $25.

260
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,600
And I was like, maybe I'm really overthinking this.

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00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:43,080
I don't know.

262
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,160
Yeah, I don't know.

263
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,000
I like the aesthetics of the thing.

264
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,800
I have this one right now, which is different.

265
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:50,840
Oh, that's pretty simple.

266
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,920
Yeah, but I used to have one.

267
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,280
I also used to have a boom arm.

268
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,760
Mine was more expensive than that, though I got a proper one

269
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,400
because I don't want it to make sounds when it squeaks, when it does that.

270
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,040
Does this one make sounds?

271
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,080
I don't think it makes any sense.

272
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,360
You just get some WD-40.

273
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:06,760
Okay, whatever.

274
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,080
Then maybe I overpaid for that for no specific reason.

275
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:11,960
So what is this?

276
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaking of women, though, look, let's do this one.

277
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,560
Hot girl trigonometry on TikTok.

278
00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:18,200
You found this.

279
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,320
This is amazing.

280
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,080
First of all, this trick is amazing for trigonometry that I had never known

281
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,040
in having done a master's degree in a branch of applied math,

282
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,640
having no idea about this.

283
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:30,120
It's amazing.

284
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,960
Education is going to be totally different in the future.

285
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,840
People are going to go to school and they're going to be like, this sucks.

286
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,240
They're going to go home and learn it themselves from the internet.

287
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:45,560
And then three or four years later, I don't know, children will just demand

288
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:51,560
that their parents only learn things from the internet or something.

289
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,080
They won't even want to go.

290
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,560
I don't know what's going to happen, but something weird is going to happen.

291
00:10:55,560 --> 00:11:02,120
And the internet is a much better teacher than 99.999% of people

292
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,680
with the teacher profession in the world.

293
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,920
Academia can suck my dick.

294
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,200
That's one way to put it out there.

295
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,440
Fuck you, all those people in schools who told me I'll never be nothing.

296
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,280
Fuck you, the internet is taking your job.

297
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,480
Every one of them.

298
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,600
Anyway, let's get back on track.

299
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:19,720
Yeah, but what are you, though?

300
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,360
Do you have anything?

301
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,440
You have one yellow shirt.

302
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,040
I really don't want to be arrogant.

303
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,960
I really don't want to be, but you brought up.

304
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,440
I've literally have weekends of my life where I made more money

305
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,560
than most of the people made in their life.

306
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,000
And not because of Bitcoin, by the way.

307
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,680
I'm not saying like I made Bitcoin.

308
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:34,520
I never count that as making money.

309
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:35,240
I've literally made money.

310
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,960
You have profit from operations.

311
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,680
Yeah, and then there's weekends of my life, separate weekends of my life,

312
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,880
multiple of them where I've done more crazy things

313
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,520
that people dream about in a weekend.

314
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,680
And again, I don't want to brag things like this.

315
00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,800
But that's why, you know, I don't want to bring this up,

316
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,040
but they told me always like I'm going to be a loser

317
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,240
and be in a ditch and whatever.

318
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,640
And the people in school, they were like, man, you have to learn.

319
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:00,520
Anyway, fuck academia.

320
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:01,080
That's not important.

321
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,840
All those people in Bucharest.

322
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:05,400
You know what?

323
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,200
Fuck them, you know.

324
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,240
Fuck them at the end of the day.

325
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:08,360
Why are you laughing?

326
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:09,240
Why are you having fun of this?

327
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:09,960
I think it's funny.

328
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:10,680
I don't know.

329
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:11,080
I'm bitter.

330
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:11,560
Yeah, why?

331
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:12,360
Fuck them.

332
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,480
I was right all along.

333
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,080
And they made me feel bad about it.

334
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,440
That, you know, well, that's they shouldn't do that.

335
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,000
That's it was their loss.

336
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:22,280
It is.

337
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,560
And I mean that sincerely.

338
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,080
How do you feel about your home country of Romania?

339
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,960
Do you like to hate it now or something?

340
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,160
I mean, it's like where you're from.

341
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,040
No, I don't hate like anything about.

342
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:38,680
Look, I don't have anything to do it anymore.

343
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:39,880
I don't even consider it home.

344
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:40,760
This is my home right now.

345
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:41,560
Interesting.

346
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:43,080
But your home is London.

347
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,160
Yeah, I don't think I ever felt at home there, to be honest with you.

348
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,760
I know that a lot of people in London don't have that experience.

349
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,560
And it is often people who immigrants who appreciate.

350
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:57,720
There's like a book.

351
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,280
I don't remember, like a poem or something about.

352
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,640
Immigrants from London being the most patriotic or something about London.

353
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,880
I'm not thinking about London, but a point that's not really what I meant.

354
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,920
No, I know what it was for me was that.

355
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,720
I see it happened to be synchronized that when I moved to London and whatever,

356
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,400
my life got arranged in such a way.

357
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,800
And I think I pushed in that direction that I started being my own man.

358
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:27,960
And I started like owning things.

359
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,800
But I don't mean like I own who I am and own my position in life.

360
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,080
And ever since then, I started feeling like I never owned a home

361
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,360
because I didn't know what it was.

362
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,840
So that's why I feel like I couldn't feel home back then, you know.

363
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,440
I wouldn't feel home with myself if that makes any sense.

364
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,880
Anyway, this girl, enough about me.

365
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:45,720
This girl, what she does.

366
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,600
By the way, when you were in like fifth grade or depending where you are.

367
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:50,840
By the way, the math.

368
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,120
Trigonometry in fifth grade.

369
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,520
Dude, by the way, the mathematics.

370
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,360
I can solve equations in second grade.

371
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:57,480
I want to put that out there.

372
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,440
And that's specific of me.

373
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,200
But in Romania, the mathematics systems,

374
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,120
you learn the things you guys learn in university,

375
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,560
will learn them in high school, just so you know.

376
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,960
All right, great.

377
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,960
Anyway, so when you were in fifth grade

378
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,840
and you want to learn like what is sine and cosine,

379
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,800
30 degrees, 45 degrees, and all those things, right?

380
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,800
You know, I never managed to remember them.

381
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,280
Like never.

382
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,760
I would always have to like, you know, have the cheat sheet and whatever.

383
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,040
And this girl shows you a trick.

384
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,240
Well, I draw the triangle.

385
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,120
But there's a triangle.

386
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,880
Which, you know, it's signed SOHCAHTOA.

387
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,720
Like sign is opposite over hypotenuse.

388
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,040
So you just draw a little triangle and then you divide.

389
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,080
And it's easy to tell if it should be like about half or about zero.

390
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:38,520
Or about one.

391
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,720
Oh, interesting how you did it.

392
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:39,960
Okay.

393
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:40,760
Yeah.

394
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,120
But that's not a good way of remembering it.

395
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,240
That's like doing it out.

396
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:46,680
That's like re-deriving it.

397
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,520
So that's a good way of understanding what it is.

398
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:49,160
But it's not.

399
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:50,840
This thing is clever.

400
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,360
Yeah, she does this really interesting visual trick.

401
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,520
Which literally, you can't forget it once you see it.

402
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:57,640
That's how great it is.

403
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,680
And she's hot.

404
00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:59,720
She's a smoke show.

405
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:00,600
Yeah, I don't know.

406
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,160
Like that's the thing is, I was thinking like,

407
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,240
I was kind of thinking like free market.

408
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,240
What was I thinking about?

409
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,680
I had all these thoughts in my head.

410
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:10,920
Like advertising.

411
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,800
And how advertising uses like good-looking people.

412
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,600
When they're trying to sell you like whatever.

413
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,440
You know, a car or something.

414
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,320
They have like good-looking people, you know.

415
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:24,280
Or they have whatever.

416
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,120
And if it's trying to sell you a vacation.

417
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,280
And then I was like, we do that for adults.

418
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,240
And then I was like, what will it be like?

419
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,640
Like now it's happening for children.

420
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,400
Like for school children or whatever.

421
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,360
And I was like, why did it take so long to happen?

422
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,280
Because they didn't have the market deciding on it.

423
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,000
No, you're right.

424
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,800
I think the market is kind of pricing the best knowledge.

425
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,280
And then it's pricing it even more further.

426
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,200
It's going to be the best knowledge with the best-looking.

427
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:53,960
That's kind of what I'm saying.

428
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,560
There'll be like the best explanation will rise to the top.

429
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,120
And then there'll be like the best delivery will then.

430
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:01,160
And the best production.

431
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,040
And the best eyebrows.

432
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,640
And the best everything you want to have.

433
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:04,520
Yeah, that's true.

434
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:04,760
Yeah.

435
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240
And there will just be like a curriculum on the internet.

436
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,280
That is just here.

437
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,200
If you need to learn trigonometry, here is the playlist.

438
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,320
And you'll learn it in like 20 hours or something.

439
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,880
Or the entire semester of trigonometry.

440
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,560
I think you could learn trigonometry.

441
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,000
Like if you really put your heart into it.

442
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:21,960
In like a week, yeah.

443
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:22,600
You could.

444
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:23,480
Let's be serious.

445
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:24,840
It's not that hard, right?

446
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,600
Yeah, it really isn't that hard.

447
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,520
It's just, in fact, most of it is like when you rethink about it.

448
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,320
It's like if the formulas themselves are just like.

449
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,440
Just these descriptions of triangles over and over again.

450
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,440
You just teach the person the one triangle.

451
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,480
I have a very good story.

452
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,400
By the way, I'm reading this book right now.

453
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,320
You're Surely Joking Mr. Feynman.

454
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,920
Which is written by a student of him.

455
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,360
That was like he hanged out with him.

456
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,040
And he made the stories.

457
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,160
And I didn't finish it.

458
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,800
But at the beginning, roughly in the beginning.

459
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,440
He talks about how he's trying to learn again.

460
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,400
Trigonometry and sinus and cosines and all these things.

461
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,480
And he says that it doesn't make sense to him.

462
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,920
Why the fuck are they using this thing?

463
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,440
Because it is overexplained.

464
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,280
Because sine and cosine.

465
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,240
It didn't feel nice.

466
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,200
So he made it another system where it felt more natural.

467
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,720
Like the mathematics.

468
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,000
And you multiply things.

469
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,440
And when you write them down.

470
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,960
And that system was better.

471
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,600
In some instances, in some it wasn't, right?

472
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,720
Well, it is kind of strange.

473
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,240
Because in math, you're taught like x is this important letter.

474
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,680
And like y is this important letter.

475
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,840
And then all of a sudden, you have like function f of x.

476
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,080
And then all of a sudden, you got three letters, you know?

477
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:32,040
Yeah.

478
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:32,920
Like, where did that come from?

479
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,680
That kind of just got out of the field.

480
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,520
You know, now you get to the point, why isn't it just n?

481
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:37,320
Or why isn't it just s?

482
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:38,840
Why is it s-i-n?

483
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,160
It is kind of just like messed up.

484
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,200
And a lot of it was like, there was something weird.

485
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,080
Especially strange about it.

486
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,480
Oh, like the inverses are done differently.

487
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:51,240
That's the point.

488
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,840
Not normal inverses.

489
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,520
Because the tangent and the whatever.

490
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:55,000
And why is it 1 over?

491
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,640
Because you have arc tangent.

492
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:58,600
And you have tangent.

493
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,520
And then you have tan to the negative 1.

494
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,240
Yeah, exactly.

495
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,440
So it's like, it does sound like they're just like making stuff up.

496
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:05,880
It's not well thought out.

497
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,480
And all of it's worthless.

498
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,920
Because it's just this descriptions of this triangle over and over again.

499
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,640
There's only like one thing that's actually contains any information.

500
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,120
It's like the law of sines, the law of cosines.

501
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:17,320
Yeah.

502
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,280
Like one other thing.

503
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,600
Anyway, you should check out this video.

504
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,320
We'll have to put it.

505
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:24,840
It's kind of amazing.

506
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,080
Like, you know what?

507
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,080
Like, this gives me hope that I might find a wife of my dreams.

508
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,600
I want something like this.

509
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,320
Why?

510
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:34,840
Does this give you the hope?

511
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,720
Because she's hot.

512
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:36,920
And look, I don't.

513
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:37,960
Just looking at a hot woman.

514
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,480
That's just, that's just inspires you one day.

515
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,240
I want, I very rarely found.

516
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,000
I found a few, a few times in my life.

517
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,360
I got across women that are smart and hot.

518
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:49,080
And they're always thinking.

519
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,040
You don't actually know.

520
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,280
I just have to say, you don't actually know that this woman.

521
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,080
I think she is smart.

522
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,440
But you know, we don't actually know.

523
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,400
Because she could just be the best delivery.

524
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,320
You know, she'd be like the good actress.

525
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,520
Listen, listen to me.

526
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,440
I'm going to be bold right now.

527
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,080
And I'm going to say like, this is not going to come here.

528
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,760
And he's not, she's, you know, when you have those mathematical

529
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,400
demonstrations with triangles and some of them, you have to be

530
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,600
really clever to do them.

531
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,240
You know, when they give you sides and whatever and things like that.

532
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,000
She doesn't know how to do all of that.

533
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:17,320
Okay.

534
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,760
I know she doesn't know how to do that.

535
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,800
But at least she knows enough math to looks like she knows math.

536
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,120
Okay.

537
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:23,880
And I'll take that.

538
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:24,600
I don't want her to be.

539
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:25,560
That's what you want for your wife.

540
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,800
You're like, one day I'll have a really hot smart asterisk wife.

541
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,880
Asterisk at the bottom is she looks like she knows.

542
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:35,160
Here's the thing.

543
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:35,960
You can have a wife.

544
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,520
It looks like she knows high school trigonometry.

545
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,560
Dude, you can have a wife.

546
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,120
That's smart asterisks and hot.

547
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:43,080
No asterisks.

548
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720
Or you can have her hot asterisks and smart no asterisks.

549
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,240
There's an asterisk somewhere.

550
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,280
There's always an asterisk somewhere.

551
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,040
Is that a rule?

552
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,680
Is that like rule number seven or something?

553
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,760
That's, that's Murphy's law though.

554
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,720
That may be a rule.

555
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,640
That may be one of the rules of Bitcoin.

556
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,560
Well, there's always an asterisk.

557
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:03,880
It's an asterisk somewhere.

558
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,040
Yeah.

559
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:05,160
Okay.

560
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,680
We'll work on that.

561
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:08,840
Should we do this drama?

562
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,200
Matt O'Dell versus Dan Held.

563
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,880
Does anyone care?

564
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,800
I want to address something here.

565
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,560
On recent shows, we made fun of Dan, what's his name, Held.

566
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,200
I don't really, did we?

567
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,520
Did we make fun of him enough for his?

568
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,120
Well, I noticed that you were also making some comments,

569
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:30,440
but it came to my attention this week

570
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,400
that you were on a podcast with him, semi-recently.

571
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:33,640
Yes.

572
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,800
Yeah, it was terrible.

573
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,920
Yeah, I didn't listen to it.

574
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,160
And you talked with him about, I just did, I was honest.

575
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:40,200
What do you want to say?

576
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,080
And you talk about fees and things like that with him?

577
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,560
Yes.

578
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,560
We have a dispute over long run fees.

579
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:47,000
Right.

580
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,400
And the only part I tuned into,

581
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,920
he's trying to tell you how people pay big fees for moving gold around.

582
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,680
And you're trying to say that's not true and whatever.

583
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,240
And then I was like, this guy sounds like two imbeciles.

584
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,280
And I turn it up.

585
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:00,920
I guess it could.

586
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,800
Well, yeah, he thinks that like it's relevant to Bitcoin transaction fees,

587
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,480
like how much people will pay to like close on their house or something.

588
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:10,440
I think so.

589
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,040
There's all these comparables.

590
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,840
No, it's relevant to the demand, but not to the market clearing price.

591
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,080
What do you mean by market?

592
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,000
There's rival supply.

593
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,560
So what I told him on the podcast, my willingness to pay for food is very high.

594
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:25,000
Correct.

595
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,400
It doesn't mean the market clearing price of food.

596
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,320
Market clearing price is the price you pay.

597
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,520
So there's these like graphs and things in economics.

598
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,760
It was like all these people are willing to pay all this.

599
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:35,800
That's the demand curve.

600
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,000
And then but the suppliers are willing to supply.

601
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,920
They how much can they make compete against each other to make a sale

602
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:50,600
so they can try to charge me, you know, $500 for a sandwich.

603
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:56,440
But if there's five sandwich places and someone else is selling it for $480.

604
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,640
You're not doing a good job explaining to me.

605
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,800
Anyway, so you're trying to say that.

606
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,720
Market clearing price is the price you pay.

607
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:11,240
So Dan was saying rightly that the high price shows that there's a high demand for
this service.

608
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,680
Because the price could not possibly be high unless the demand was high.

609
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,120
But I'm saying the supply is moving in.

610
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:19,320
It's going to bring the price down.

611
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,600
Like food, food is pretty cheap in the United States.

612
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,400
It's relative to how much people want it.

613
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,120
So what you're trying to say that that is the same thing with fees.

614
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,440
And there's this constant supply of block space constantly coming.

615
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,400
And even though like everyone will need fees,

616
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,920
they're not going to go up so much what you're trying to say.

617
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,240
People might be willing to pay a lot.

618
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,680
But if the prevailing fee is just $5 per Bitcoin transaction,

619
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,800
then that's all you have to pay.

620
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,480
You may be secretly, you may be moving like $100 million worth of Bitcoin.

621
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,320
So you might be willing to pay like $1 million to get that transaction across.

622
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,960
Right, I don't see how this contradicts his argument.

623
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,240
He was probably trying, I don't know,

624
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,040
but he was trying to probably make the argument that people are willing to pay more.

625
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,880
And I'm like, yes, but no, it does contradict this argument.

626
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:12,520
Because I was saying how much, how the willingness to pay

627
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,560
doesn't necessarily produce a high market clearing price.

628
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,280
Right, and his argument was probably that actually it is

629
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:28,360
because they pay additional fees that come to doing something else.

630
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:31,560
So he concludes that this is going to happen also with Bitcoin.

631
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,360
Like that's what he's trying to prove.

632
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,520
It could happen, but I'm saying it won't happen

633
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,080
because there's too much block space.

634
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,360
There's abundant block space.

635
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Well, block space is constant though.

636
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:41,800
Do you agree with that?

637
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,720
No, because this is the point.

638
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,560
Okay, so this is the point of when I was,

639
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,480
this is the point that we skipped already.

640
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,360
So we can go back to it.

641
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:54,120
The security budget update in my graph that I made, which is that,

642
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,720
but there was a, okay, let me give you this tweet.

643
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:58,840
Please answer me the first thing.

644
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,400
Because it just baffled me.

645
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,360
I said, block space is a constant supply coming in.

646
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,200
And you said, no, I don't understand what it means.

647
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,000
Because there's, it's, well, okay.

648
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,120
So when the BTC fees rose,

649
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:15,800
BitRefill saw that most people did not switch to Lightning.

650
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,320
They switched to Litecoin to pay.

651
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,280
So Litecoin has a kind of substitute good.

652
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,120
So it is a substitute in terms of the transactions.

653
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,960
So not in terms of being a store of value,

654
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,280
but in terms of making the blockchain payment.

655
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,840
But you can see, now you have to look at the tweet,

656
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,480
because you see the fees just don't go up.

657
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,000
My point is they don't, when they go up,

658
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,880
people, it's either during a bubble,

659
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040
and people don't care because they're getting rich.

660
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:59,960
Or they react by not transacting or switching to.

661
00:25:00,585 --> 00:25:27,585
Litecoin on these other things. So I'm saying you could just copy and paste Bitcoin
forever and make a million Litecoins and make a million BTC2, BTC3. And so actually
the space, it does react. The space on layer one does not, but it has substitutes.
So it acts as though, as if it reacted, I have quite a few comments on this. And by
the way, I'm sorry, if you're probably repeating the same thing you said in the
podcast. And I also wrote a John Lennon article on this. I'm sorry if you're
repeating the same thing you said in the podcast. And I also wrote a John Lennon
article on this. And I also wrote a John Lennon article on this.

662
00:25:28,585 --> 00:25:36,585
I saw it, but I didn't read that also. But I want to add a few comments. And maybe
this is going to, you're going to start addressing things you have in your post
then.

663
00:25:36,585 --> 00:25:39,585
Sure. But before you do that, can you just open the tweet and look at the graph?

664
00:25:39,585 --> 00:25:42,585
I know, I know the graph.

665
00:25:42,585 --> 00:25:56,585
I'm just saying empirically is not, the fees don't stay up. We need that as for
Bitcoin to be secure in the long run. You need the fees to be up, but they also have
to be up like 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

666
00:25:56,585 --> 00:25:59,585
They need to be up like permanently, but they don't stay up.

667
00:25:59,585 --> 00:26:03,585
As soon as they get like high, people just kind of give up.

668
00:26:03,585 --> 00:26:11,585
Well, so the first thing I want to disagree with is like you brought up, disagree
with, attack, if I may. You brought up the example of Bitrefill and whatever.

669
00:26:11,585 --> 00:26:26,585
Because it was in the tweet also that I quoted this.

670
00:26:26,585 --> 00:26:34,585
Anyway, so the thing with Bitrefill is that I don't know if they're that good of a
representative.

671
00:26:34,585 --> 00:26:37,585
Representative, that's the word. Because let me tell you what I always thought you
were going to say.

672
00:26:38,585 --> 00:26:41,585
There's just one of many.

673
00:26:41,585 --> 00:26:42,585
Okay, continue.

674
00:26:42,585 --> 00:26:52,585
So what I was going to say is that when in 2017, when I remember, by the way, when
the fees went up, I thought you were going to say that actually we see a lot of
people using custodial services.

675
00:26:52,585 --> 00:26:54,585
That as well.

676
00:26:54,585 --> 00:27:01,585
And that's what happened more. And on local Bitcoins, by the way, everyone that I
knew, they would use this because it was zero fee transaction.

677
00:27:01,585 --> 00:27:04,585
So I think there's more of that happening than anything else.

678
00:27:04,585 --> 00:27:07,585
Same thing. That just makes it even worse.

679
00:27:07,585 --> 00:27:08,585
Well, okay.

680
00:27:08,585 --> 00:27:15,585
But Dan, there's a big tangent about how people love it. People love the blockchain.
People love self-sovereignty. People love whatever.

681
00:27:15,585 --> 00:27:21,585
Yeah, they do. And some of them do. Most of them do, but not necessarily all of
them. They don't have to all the time. Anyway, okay.

682
00:27:22,585 --> 00:27:29,585
So the other thing that you said is that I do think the thing is like when I'm
looking at this chart you put here, the zone of unsustainability.

683
00:27:29,585 --> 00:27:30,585
Yes.

684
00:27:30,585 --> 00:27:36,585
I guess you're just pretty much graphing demand here, which is very correlated with
a high price. And I was like, okay, that's not interesting.

685
00:27:36,585 --> 00:27:41,585
Of course, there's going to be higher fees when there's the price is higher because
there's more people using the Bitcoin.

686
00:27:41,585 --> 00:27:46,585
But I think the lower floor of this fees is where we should focus on. Right?

687
00:27:46,585 --> 00:27:48,585
No, I don't think so at all.

688
00:27:49,585 --> 00:27:59,585
First of all, everything beneath $1 is just irrelevant because as far as most people
are concerned, it's just nothing.

689
00:27:59,585 --> 00:28:04,585
You know what I mean? There's no difference between a tenth of a penny and a penny.

690
00:28:04,585 --> 00:28:06,585
But here's why I disagree though.

691
00:28:06,585 --> 00:28:10,585
Do you think there's a serious difference in people's brains between a tenth of a
penny and a penny?

692
00:28:10,585 --> 00:28:14,585
And what about 10 cents? All that is nothing.

693
00:28:14,585 --> 00:28:19,585
I think your observation on human behavior is valid, but I don't think that's the
whole context.

694
00:28:19,585 --> 00:28:23,585
So you look at the blockchain, right? And there's like transactions.

695
00:28:23,585 --> 00:28:27,585
A big part of them are made by humans and this comes into play.

696
00:28:27,585 --> 00:28:40,585
But a big, big, big part of them, more of them actually, are made by some other
entity, which could be an automatic thing, which could be BitGo, which could be
something that's not necessarily a human looking at sliding a thing.

697
00:28:41,585 --> 00:28:47,585
No, but the human sliding the thing is, you know, that is a big, probably the big
driver.

698
00:28:47,585 --> 00:28:53,585
Well, we don't know that for sure, first of all. And I didn't saw any analysis of
this that would conclude so.

699
00:28:53,585 --> 00:29:00,585
Oh, by the way, there's this guy who writes about fees and whatever.

700
00:29:00,585 --> 00:29:06,585
And he has this like really, really nice thing put out together where he tries to
analyze the blockchain.info wallets.

701
00:29:06,585 --> 00:29:08,585
Dude, he does it in a very, very good way.

702
00:29:08,585 --> 00:29:16,585
And he uses the conclusion I'm looking at transactions that almost 30% of the
transactions were made by blockchain.info wallets.

703
00:29:16,585 --> 00:29:19,585
And even more to point the way they were doing the fees.

704
00:29:19,585 --> 00:29:22,585
But he does a lot of analysis to reach this conclusion.

705
00:29:22,585 --> 00:29:28,585
And yeah, maybe you're right now, I'm contradicting my point, because 30% of the
people are using blockchain.info wallets.

706
00:29:28,585 --> 00:29:32,585
And that's just one wallet of all the wallets that are known.

707
00:29:32,585 --> 00:29:34,585
So I don't know, maybe he did, I don't know.

708
00:29:35,585 --> 00:29:40,585
But all I'm saying is, I don't think, I really don't think it matters when it's
like,

709
00:29:40,585 --> 00:29:43,585
well, it's not until it gets to a dollar that people even start thinking about it.

710
00:29:43,585 --> 00:29:47,585
So I think all of that beneath the dollar, just cut that part of the graph off, it
doesn't even mean anything.

711
00:29:49,585 --> 00:29:54,585
Yeah, I don't know. I kind of agree with you, but I also don't have any evidence
that's true.

712
00:29:54,585 --> 00:29:57,585
I don't have, it's not like we looked at 10,000 people and we were just like,

713
00:29:57,585 --> 00:30:02,585
But just imagine it though, in your mind, imagine someone saying to themselves,

714
00:30:02,585 --> 00:30:06,585
I'm buying Bitcoin because I want to be my own bank, financial sovereignty of the
world.

715
00:30:06,585 --> 00:30:11,585
And they say, oh no, the fee went up from one tenth of a penny to one fifth of a
penny.

716
00:30:12,585 --> 00:30:14,585
No one gives a shit about that at all.

717
00:30:14,585 --> 00:30:19,585
Dude, listen, I'm with you, but I just feel like I would be more brave about this,
stating this,

718
00:30:19,585 --> 00:30:23,585
if I would see some analysis of some wallets or some transactions.

719
00:30:23,585 --> 00:30:25,585
That's what I'm trying to say.

720
00:30:25,585 --> 00:30:27,585
But yeah, it feels like that to me also.

721
00:30:27,585 --> 00:30:30,585
Anyway, getting back on track, getting back on track to the whole fucking subject.

722
00:30:31,585 --> 00:30:36,585
So what was the point of the article you were trying to, why did you update your
article?

723
00:30:36,585 --> 00:30:37,585
Let's go there.

724
00:30:37,585 --> 00:30:43,585
Because I wanted to show that still, because we had a period recently when the fees
did go up.

725
00:30:44,585 --> 00:30:48,585
So when the fees go up, that makes it look as though my article may be incorrect.

726
00:30:49,585 --> 00:30:51,585
So what I wanted to say was, okay.

727
00:30:51,585 --> 00:30:56,585
Please express the point before anything, the point of you updating the article.

728
00:30:56,585 --> 00:30:57,585
Lay that out, please.

729
00:31:00,585 --> 00:31:06,585
Okay, the point of updating it with this graph was to introduce this measurement,
this metric,

730
00:31:06,585 --> 00:31:10,585
the consecutive days above $10 fees.

731
00:31:10,585 --> 00:31:11,585
Okay.

732
00:31:11,585 --> 00:31:13,585
So you see where it says seven days, 50 days, 11 days.

733
00:31:13,585 --> 00:31:15,585
And the reason you, just to make it clear.

734
00:31:15,585 --> 00:31:18,585
The metric is success or failure, for my idea.

735
00:31:18,585 --> 00:31:22,585
Sorry, the reason you, let's just bring a bit of context with this chart because
people are not going to know.

736
00:31:22,585 --> 00:31:28,585
So the reason you brought this $10 up, you picked this floor of $10.

737
00:31:28,585 --> 00:31:29,585
Why is it that?

738
00:31:29,585 --> 00:31:32,585
That's kind of arbitrary, but I think those are like high fees.

739
00:31:32,585 --> 00:31:37,585
So the fees need to be much higher than $10 on average for Bitcoin to be secure.

740
00:31:37,585 --> 00:31:45,585
I don't remember the exact number calculated, but even $50 is really not quite
enough.

741
00:31:45,585 --> 00:31:51,585
And a very small amount compared to what we could have if we had merge mine sidechains.

742
00:31:51,585 --> 00:31:53,585
So there's a Drivechain tie-in.

743
00:31:53,585 --> 00:31:55,585
Sponsored by Truthcoin.

744
00:31:55,585 --> 00:32:00,585
It's not the main reason, but it is a reason.

745
00:32:00,585 --> 00:32:03,585
But $10 because, $10 is a round number.

746
00:32:03,585 --> 00:32:10,585
Because I think, I really think like it would really need to be like $50 or like
higher.

747
00:32:11,585 --> 00:32:15,585
But that is like aspirational.

748
00:32:15,585 --> 00:32:17,585
So it wouldn't have reached that goal yet.

749
00:32:17,585 --> 00:32:21,585
But then something like $1 or $2.

750
00:32:21,585 --> 00:32:27,585
I really still think most people, I mean, when you pay a credit card, it is like a
$2 or $3 fee.

751
00:32:27,585 --> 00:32:28,585
Let me just stop you for a second.

752
00:32:28,585 --> 00:32:29,585
You're a bit all over the place.

753
00:32:29,585 --> 00:32:32,585
Let's get back to, I really want you to explain.

754
00:32:32,585 --> 00:32:33,585
Let's stop everything.

755
00:32:33,585 --> 00:32:35,585
We have to get everything that's all over the place.

756
00:32:35,585 --> 00:32:38,585
We have to bring it back.

757
00:32:39,585 --> 00:32:40,585
I really want you to explain.

758
00:32:40,585 --> 00:32:41,585
To one place.

759
00:32:41,585 --> 00:32:43,585
No, because, sorry.

760
00:32:43,585 --> 00:32:45,585
I want you to explain why did you update your article?

761
00:32:45,585 --> 00:32:46,585
Why did you update?

762
00:32:46,585 --> 00:32:47,585
What changed?

763
00:32:47,585 --> 00:32:49,585
I want you to lay that point more than anything else.

764
00:32:49,585 --> 00:32:51,585
Forget about the other dynamics.

765
00:32:51,585 --> 00:32:52,585
Okay.

766
00:32:52,585 --> 00:32:56,585
Well, forget about the other dynamics.

767
00:32:56,585 --> 00:32:59,585
We had recently a period of high fees.

768
00:32:59,585 --> 00:33:00,585
Yes.

769
00:33:00,585 --> 00:33:04,585
Which my article says the problem with fees is they're not high enough.

770
00:33:04,585 --> 00:33:09,585
So I wanted to say, is everything going to be good from now on?

771
00:33:09,585 --> 00:33:12,585
And I say, well, probably not because it was just 11 days.

772
00:33:12,585 --> 00:33:13,585
Okay.

773
00:33:13,585 --> 00:33:14,585
All right.

774
00:33:14,585 --> 00:33:17,585
They fell back down there.

775
00:33:17,585 --> 00:33:18,585
How's that?

776
00:33:18,585 --> 00:33:19,585
Did I dumb it down?

777
00:33:19,585 --> 00:33:24,585
Did I dumb it down to the Bucharest public education level?

778
00:33:24,585 --> 00:33:27,585
Is that, is that what they teach in fifth grade?

779
00:33:27,585 --> 00:33:29,585
They teach Bitcoin in fifth grade.

780
00:33:29,585 --> 00:33:30,585
They teach Bitcoin in fifth grade.

781
00:33:30,585 --> 00:33:33,585
What we're learning in, what we're learning in college.

782
00:33:33,585 --> 00:33:35,585
I'm not fucking.

783
00:33:35,585 --> 00:33:41,585
I take offense that Romanian people are smart, more average, no more math than
American people.

784
00:33:41,585 --> 00:33:42,585
I don't know anything.

785
00:33:42,585 --> 00:33:45,585
I don't know anything about wait.

786
00:33:45,585 --> 00:33:46,585
Marcus from Romania.

787
00:33:46,585 --> 00:33:47,585
No, no.

788
00:33:47,585 --> 00:33:48,585
Excuse me.

789
00:33:48,585 --> 00:33:49,585
I thought he was from.

790
00:33:49,585 --> 00:33:50,585
He's proper.

791
00:33:50,585 --> 00:33:51,585
I thought it was.

792
00:33:51,585 --> 00:33:52,585
Oh yeah.

793
00:33:52,585 --> 00:33:53,585
He is Romanian.

794
00:33:53,585 --> 00:33:54,585
Yeah.

795
00:33:54,585 --> 00:33:55,585
He's proper.

796
00:33:55,585 --> 00:33:56,585
So you are.

797
00:33:56,585 --> 00:33:57,585
I mean, I don't know.

798
00:33:57,585 --> 00:33:58,585
I'm not as crazy as him.

799
00:33:58,585 --> 00:33:59,585
I don't know any other Romanian people.

800
00:33:59,585 --> 00:34:00,585
So.

801
00:34:00,585 --> 00:34:01,585
Vlad Zamfir.

802
00:34:01,585 --> 00:34:02,585
The Ethereum guy.

803
00:34:02,585 --> 00:34:03,585
Is Vlad Zamfir really?

804
00:34:03,585 --> 00:34:04,585
He's like, yeah, he is.

805
00:34:04,585 --> 00:34:05,585
He is.

806
00:34:05,585 --> 00:34:08,585
Zamfir is a very Romanian name now that I think about it.

807
00:34:08,585 --> 00:34:11,585
Yeah.

808
00:34:11,585 --> 00:34:12,585
That's like just pure.

809
00:34:12,585 --> 00:34:13,585
There aren't any more Romanians.

810
00:34:13,585 --> 00:34:14,585
Okay.

811
00:34:14,585 --> 00:34:15,585
Anyway.

812
00:34:15,585 --> 00:34:16,585
So now I think you're right though.

813
00:34:16,585 --> 00:34:20,585
And I think the fees will go around $50 and whatever.

814
00:34:20,585 --> 00:34:21,585
It's just obvious they will.

815
00:34:21,585 --> 00:34:22,585
Right.

816
00:34:22,585 --> 00:34:23,585
Because there's only.

817
00:34:23,585 --> 00:34:25,585
I know, but I know, but I don't think that they, that it is obvious.

818
00:34:25,585 --> 00:34:27,585
That's what I, that's the article question.

819
00:34:27,585 --> 00:34:28,585
You don't think they will.

820
00:34:28,585 --> 00:34:29,585
Is it obvious?

821
00:34:29,585 --> 00:34:32,585
Because I think when they go up, then.

822
00:34:32,585 --> 00:34:33,585
Well, it's yeah.

823
00:34:33,585 --> 00:34:35,585
It's a lot of that at once.

824
00:34:35,585 --> 00:34:36,585
So it's all of that at once.

825
00:34:36,585 --> 00:34:39,585
So, but I think.

826
00:34:39,585 --> 00:34:42,585
The fees start to go up and people start to react.

827
00:34:42,585 --> 00:34:44,585
They react to it.

828
00:34:44,585 --> 00:34:45,585
Okay.

829
00:34:45,585 --> 00:34:49,585
So the only reason they would not is if.

830
00:34:49,585 --> 00:34:52,585
It's really easy for them to use some layer two.

831
00:34:52,585 --> 00:34:56,585
But even if they move to the layer two.

832
00:34:56,585 --> 00:34:59,585
Still, they, they get hit with the layer one fee when they onboard to

833
00:34:59,585 --> 00:35:03,585
lightning, for example, but the layer two has to work so well.

834
00:35:03,585 --> 00:35:07,585
That they stay in layer two for most of their lives and only rarely

835
00:35:07,585 --> 00:35:08,585
settled to layer one.

836
00:35:08,585 --> 00:35:12,585
And it has to be so much activity on layer two that even with people.

837
00:35:12,585 --> 00:35:16,585
Rarely settling to layer one.

838
00:35:16,585 --> 00:35:21,585
Then the, the, all of that settling drives the.

839
00:35:21,585 --> 00:35:22,585
Yeah.

840
00:35:23,585 --> 00:35:24,585
So weird.

841
00:35:24,585 --> 00:35:26,585
Do you remember when we, when we said at some point,

842
00:35:26,585 --> 00:35:29,585
then we both agree on like how using addresses is going to be so like low

843
00:35:29,585 --> 00:35:30,585
level shit.

844
00:35:30,585 --> 00:35:33,585
I think the fees are going to be the same thing though.

845
00:35:33,585 --> 00:35:34,585
Okay.

846
00:35:34,585 --> 00:35:37,585
But, but that's, that's not addressing your user has to pay the fee every

847
00:35:37,585 --> 00:35:38,585
time.

848
00:35:38,585 --> 00:35:39,585
They don't like that.

849
00:35:39,585 --> 00:35:40,585
I think they will.

850
00:35:40,585 --> 00:35:41,585
I think they will.

851
00:35:41,585 --> 00:35:43,585
I think if there's a, let's say right now,

852
00:35:43,585 --> 00:35:47,585
let's just look at lightning because it's more comfortable and it's more,

853
00:35:47,585 --> 00:35:49,585
but again, we can look at our examples.

854
00:35:49,585 --> 00:35:51,585
So every time you move above a layer,

855
00:35:51,585 --> 00:35:55,585
you're trading off a bit of cost for the fee for some inconvenience,

856
00:35:55,585 --> 00:35:57,585
quote unquote inconvenience. Right?

857
00:35:57,585 --> 00:35:59,585
So you are trying to say that you still need to have a bit,

858
00:35:59,585 --> 00:36:01,585
a lot of friction up there.

859
00:36:01,585 --> 00:36:03,585
That's going to slide down to the, to the first layer.

860
00:36:03,585 --> 00:36:05,585
So we could feed the miners. Right.

861
00:36:05,585 --> 00:36:07,585
And I don't know what, so what is about, I mean,

862
00:36:07,585 --> 00:36:09,585
it's clearly that's going to happen.

863
00:36:09,585 --> 00:36:10,585
Well,

864
00:36:10,585 --> 00:36:13,585
the point of the article is that it would happen if with,

865
00:36:13,585 --> 00:36:18,585
with merge my entire chains, there'd be plenty of fees to go around.

866
00:36:19,585 --> 00:36:21,585
But without, I don't.

867
00:36:21,585 --> 00:36:23,585
It's happened when, with lightning will happen.

868
00:36:23,585 --> 00:36:26,585
No, but this is the thing is it hasn't already.

869
00:36:26,585 --> 00:36:27,585
Well, first of all,

870
00:36:27,585 --> 00:36:31,585
you need layer one bites in order to onboard to lightning because you need

871
00:36:31,585 --> 00:36:34,585
to put, even just open a channel.

872
00:36:34,585 --> 00:36:35,585
You need a layer one transaction.

873
00:36:35,585 --> 00:36:38,585
Not necessarily though. Not necessarily. Not for all the channels.

874
00:36:38,585 --> 00:36:41,585
Yes. For every real non-custodial channel.

875
00:36:41,585 --> 00:36:42,585
Yes.

876
00:36:42,585 --> 00:36:44,585
But there is even smart ways now where you can like give a channel to

877
00:36:44,585 --> 00:36:46,585
someone and sell a channel.

878
00:36:46,585 --> 00:36:47,585
It still has to get open. Fair enough.

879
00:36:47,585 --> 00:36:49,585
Like it has to be a transaction somewhere. Yeah.

880
00:36:49,585 --> 00:36:51,585
There's channel factories,

881
00:36:51,585 --> 00:36:54,585
but then everyone in the channel factory group has to,

882
00:36:54,585 --> 00:36:56,585
so that doesn't really help either.

883
00:36:56,585 --> 00:36:57,585
No, you are right.

884
00:36:57,585 --> 00:36:59,585
There has to be a broadcast somewhere.

885
00:36:59,585 --> 00:37:02,585
Every channel has a certain capacity, like seven Bitcoin.

886
00:37:02,585 --> 00:37:03,585
Yeah.

887
00:37:03,585 --> 00:37:06,585
And that happened because the two people put the Bitcoin in to a

888
00:37:06,585 --> 00:37:07,585
multi-city. Yes. I agree with you.

889
00:37:07,585 --> 00:37:09,585
On layer one. Yes.

890
00:37:09,585 --> 00:37:11,585
So you need layer one transaction to get,

891
00:37:11,585 --> 00:37:13,585
even get onto the lightning network.

892
00:37:13,585 --> 00:37:15,585
Yeah. But, but it's just going to be for every,

893
00:37:15,585 --> 00:37:18,585
every transaction I'm just pulling out of mass for every time,

894
00:37:18,585 --> 00:37:20,585
every transaction you have on chain,

895
00:37:20,585 --> 00:37:22,585
there's like 10,000 transactions going on.

896
00:37:22,585 --> 00:37:28,585
Well, I agree with that, but I'm just, but you understand that.

897
00:37:28,585 --> 00:37:30,585
Yeah. I think that that will take,

898
00:37:30,585 --> 00:37:33,585
I think there'll have to be a lot of other layers, but I think that.

899
00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:35,585
It's not going to be just one layer too. I think it's obvious right now.

900
00:37:35,585 --> 00:37:38,585
It's so obvious that it's not going to be just lightning or something

901
00:37:38,585 --> 00:37:40,585
like that. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah.

902
00:37:40,585 --> 00:37:42,585
The point of the article is really that it would be okay,

903
00:37:42,585 --> 00:37:45,585
but the article is just about the very various facets of that.

904
00:37:45,585 --> 00:37:47,585
I feel bad. I didn't read the article right now.

905
00:37:47,585 --> 00:37:49,585
It feels like I should have read it and we could have talked about it.

906
00:37:49,585 --> 00:37:53,585
I know. Yeah, it's good, but we don't have, we don't,

907
00:37:53,585 --> 00:37:56,585
we don't really have any, we don't have the layer.

908
00:37:56,585 --> 00:37:59,585
We don't have merge my side genes. We don't have,

909
00:37:59,585 --> 00:38:02,585
we only have lightning network really, which we sort of barely have.

910
00:38:02,585 --> 00:38:07,585
Do you want to do a show and a separate episode when I ask you a lot of

911
00:38:07,585 --> 00:38:10,585
stupid questions about emerging mining and you just answer my stupid

912
00:38:10,585 --> 00:38:12,585
question because there's so many things I don't know.

913
00:38:12,585 --> 00:38:15,585
And I think it's faster than me reading all your fucking shit because they

914
00:38:15,585 --> 00:38:17,585
look awful. First of all, they look awful.

915
00:38:17,585 --> 00:38:22,585
And maybe if that's, if it turns out other people can, can learn to it.

916
00:38:23,585 --> 00:38:28,585
Maybe, I don't know. But the, I think the, the question is,

917
00:38:28,585 --> 00:38:29,585
so I guess what I'm saying is if we all,

918
00:38:29,585 --> 00:38:34,585
if it's just the critique in the article that I wrote was if it's only BTC

919
00:38:34,585 --> 00:38:36,585
and lightning network,

920
00:38:37,585 --> 00:38:40,585
then there probably will be a problem with the fees.

921
00:38:40,585 --> 00:38:44,585
I disagree. I think even if the most dumbest thing, well,

922
00:38:44,585 --> 00:38:47,585
not how it is right now, but look, here's the thing right now.

923
00:38:47,585 --> 00:38:50,585
As much as I made fun of lightning fanboys and whatever, again,

924
00:38:50,585 --> 00:38:54,585
like the thing is that even if it is just lightning and nothing else comes

925
00:38:54,585 --> 00:39:00,585
because I don't know reasons it will evolve and it could probably take a big

926
00:39:00,585 --> 00:39:02,585
load, not all of it, but it will take a bit.

927
00:39:02,585 --> 00:39:04,585
This is what people say about Ethereum though.

928
00:39:04,585 --> 00:39:09,585
No, when I say a big load, I mean, like there's going to be a thousand

929
00:39:09,585 --> 00:39:10,585
dollars, sorry.

930
00:39:10,585 --> 00:39:14,585
There's going to be a hundred dollars fees on chain and $10 on lightning.

931
00:39:14,585 --> 00:39:15,585
That's what I'm trying to say.

932
00:39:15,585 --> 00:39:17,585
Like I'm not saying like they're going to become also small.

933
00:39:17,585 --> 00:39:19,585
Those are the proportions I would have in my head.

934
00:39:19,585 --> 00:39:20,585
Something like that.

935
00:39:24,585 --> 00:39:28,585
Anyway, all I'm saying is the graph is to sort of keep an eye.

936
00:39:28,585 --> 00:39:30,585
It's like a thermometer or something.

937
00:39:31,585 --> 00:39:33,585
Are the fees high enough?

938
00:39:33,585 --> 00:39:34,585
Okay.

939
00:39:34,585 --> 00:39:36,585
And the answer should always be no.

940
00:39:36,585 --> 00:39:38,585
Always the fee should be higher.

941
00:39:38,585 --> 00:39:39,585
Yeah.

942
00:39:39,585 --> 00:39:43,585
Well, no, but there's something else I wanted to say.

943
00:39:43,585 --> 00:39:46,585
I could have put this with the graph, but I thought it was already too much

944
00:39:46,585 --> 00:39:47,585
on the graph.

945
00:39:47,585 --> 00:39:52,585
But you were talking about it's not so much when the price gets higher,

946
00:39:52,585 --> 00:39:55,585
but it's not so much when the price goes down.

947
00:39:55,585 --> 00:40:00,585
But you were talking about it's not so much when the price gets higher,

948
00:40:00,585 --> 00:40:04,585
it's there's these moments of euphoria when everyone wants to buy Bitcoin

949
00:40:04,585 --> 00:40:05,585
all of a sudden.

950
00:40:05,585 --> 00:40:11,585
And so the ROI on Bitcoin is like a hundred percent in a day, you know?

951
00:40:11,585 --> 00:40:14,585
So people invest $5,000 in Bitcoin, it becomes $10,000.

952
00:40:14,585 --> 00:40:16,585
They don't care what fee.

953
00:40:16,585 --> 00:40:17,585
They don't care.

954
00:40:17,585 --> 00:40:18,585
Give a shit.

955
00:40:18,585 --> 00:40:19,585
They could have paid a thousand dollar fee.

956
00:40:19,585 --> 00:40:20,585
They don't care.

957
00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:26,585
But that describes these three periods where the fees were high.

958
00:40:26,585 --> 00:40:30,585
There was bubble fees, which I think are not relevant.

959
00:40:30,585 --> 00:40:32,585
Those are misleading fees.

960
00:40:32,585 --> 00:40:36,585
They are not fees that people pay because they're paying 24-7

961
00:40:36,585 --> 00:40:38,585
and using Bitcoin as Bitcoin uses.

962
00:40:38,585 --> 00:40:42,585
That's like once a day you may be willing to pay $500 to get your dick sucked

963
00:40:42,585 --> 00:40:44,585
because you won a lottery, but that's not the norm.

964
00:40:44,585 --> 00:40:46,585
You're not willing to do that every day.

965
00:40:46,585 --> 00:40:47,585
That's a one-off.

966
00:40:47,585 --> 00:40:49,585
And maybe everyone won a lottery in December,

967
00:40:49,585 --> 00:40:52,585
but that's one in December once every four years.

968
00:40:52,585 --> 00:40:55,585
So calm your tits down and stop making that the norm

969
00:40:55,585 --> 00:40:57,585
and making the argument that this is going to sustain Bitcoin

970
00:40:57,585 --> 00:40:58,585
because that's not the norm.

971
00:40:58,585 --> 00:40:59,585
That's what I mean.

972
00:40:59,585 --> 00:41:00,585
Right.

973
00:41:00,585 --> 00:41:01,585
That's what I was trying to say is that a lot of this stuff about fees.

974
00:41:01,585 --> 00:41:02,585
My metaphor was so much better.

975
00:41:02,585 --> 00:41:03,585
It was better.

976
00:41:03,585 --> 00:41:06,585
But I'm just saying the bubble fees aren't representative.

977
00:41:06,585 --> 00:41:10,585
So I thought about adding that to this graph, but I didn't.

978
00:41:10,585 --> 00:41:12,585
I thought like, should I take out my statistics hat

979
00:41:12,585 --> 00:41:16,585
and try to make some other graph that's like what the return was

980
00:41:16,585 --> 00:41:18,585
in the past four days, like daily return,

981
00:41:18,585 --> 00:41:21,585
so that you could see that it would be like this line of nothing

982
00:41:21,585 --> 00:41:23,585
on a certain y-axis scale,

983
00:41:23,585 --> 00:41:26,585
and then it would just spike during these fees,

984
00:41:26,585 --> 00:41:28,585
and these fees were high.

985
00:41:28,585 --> 00:41:31,585
I don't know what you just said in the last part.

986
00:41:31,585 --> 00:41:35,585
Now, I think that kind of brings a more scientific argument,

987
00:41:35,585 --> 00:41:36,585
but I don't think that –

988
00:41:36,585 --> 00:41:38,585
I think the people who understood it are going to believe you more,

989
00:41:38,585 --> 00:41:40,585
but I think the people who don't understand it

990
00:41:40,585 --> 00:41:41,585
is going to confuse them more.

991
00:41:41,585 --> 00:41:43,585
Yeah, that's kind of why I didn't do it

992
00:41:43,585 --> 00:41:45,585
because I was like, it's a lost cause.

993
00:41:45,585 --> 00:41:48,585
So the argument is something like

994
00:41:48,585 --> 00:41:52,585
how competitive is layer one block space?

995
00:41:52,585 --> 00:41:54,585
Like will people really pay?

996
00:41:54,585 --> 00:41:55,585
Think about it.

997
00:41:55,585 --> 00:42:00,585
So with Lightning, would they pay $50 to use Lightning on BTC,

998
00:42:00,585 --> 00:42:04,585
or would they just use Lightning on LTC

999
00:42:04,585 --> 00:42:06,585
because it will still work on LTC,

1000
00:42:06,585 --> 00:42:08,585
and it will cost them nothing,

1001
00:42:08,585 --> 00:42:10,585
and then want to be Litecoin too?

1002
00:42:10,585 --> 00:42:12,585
Well, this was the other thing I wanted to –

1003
00:42:12,585 --> 00:42:14,585
This is the thing that I wanted to wonder about.

1004
00:42:14,585 --> 00:42:16,585
Is it fungible?

1005
00:42:16,585 --> 00:42:17,585
I don't think it's –

1006
00:42:17,585 --> 00:42:18,585
But there's this tweet.

1007
00:42:18,585 --> 00:42:20,585
I know, but there's a tweet suggesting it is.

1008
00:42:20,585 --> 00:42:22,585
Okay, sorry. Which one?

1009
00:42:22,585 --> 00:42:23,585
Well, I don't know.

1010
00:42:23,585 --> 00:42:25,585
It's the whatever, the BitRefill one,

1011
00:42:25,585 --> 00:42:26,585
but I don't know if it –

1012
00:42:26,585 --> 00:42:28,585
Here, I'll send it to you.

1013
00:42:28,585 --> 00:42:32,585
I'm not saying this is handed down from God as absolute truth.

1014
00:42:32,585 --> 00:42:36,585
I'm just saying someone should keep an eye on this

1015
00:42:36,585 --> 00:42:39,585
because it's possible that a lot of people,

1016
00:42:39,585 --> 00:42:42,585
especially if people don't own a lot of BTC,

1017
00:42:43,585 --> 00:42:45,585
they just want to use it.

1018
00:42:45,585 --> 00:42:47,585
I know. I know, Matt.

1019
00:42:47,585 --> 00:42:48,585
I talked with him a few times.

1020
00:42:48,585 --> 00:42:49,585
Here's the thing right now.

1021
00:42:49,585 --> 00:42:51,585
I don't think that's true, though,

1022
00:42:51,585 --> 00:42:52,585
because you know what?

1023
00:42:52,585 --> 00:42:53,585
Every time –

1024
00:42:53,585 --> 00:42:55,585
So even when you move from Layer 2 to Layer 1,

1025
00:42:55,585 --> 00:42:57,585
there's a trade-off and a cost attached to it.

1026
00:42:57,585 --> 00:43:01,585
Now, because it was madness in 2017,

1027
00:43:01,585 --> 00:43:03,585
every cost was just not seen.

1028
00:43:03,585 --> 00:43:04,585
So you can't –

1029
00:43:04,585 --> 00:43:06,585
So as you mentioned,

1030
00:43:06,585 --> 00:43:13,585
the euphoria came in and made you make stupid decisions,

1031
00:43:13,585 --> 00:43:14,585
evaluate things wrongly.

1032
00:43:14,585 --> 00:43:17,585
The same thing happened when you were moving to Litecoin

1033
00:43:17,585 --> 00:43:19,585
because that's a cost also, by the way,

1034
00:43:19,585 --> 00:43:20,585
and a friction.

1035
00:43:20,585 --> 00:43:23,585
But as much people refuse to look at that.

1036
00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:26,585
So that's why I wouldn't even count that metric as being like,

1037
00:43:26,585 --> 00:43:28,585
oh, they went to Litecoin.

1038
00:43:28,585 --> 00:43:29,585
The reason they went to Litecoin –

1039
00:43:29,585 --> 00:43:30,585
That's true.

1040
00:43:30,585 --> 00:43:32,585
If you go to BTC, from BTC to Litecoin,

1041
00:43:33,585 --> 00:43:35,585
if it's pre-hyper-Bitcoinization,

1042
00:43:35,585 --> 00:43:39,585
you just go from fiat to Litecoin and then back.

1043
00:43:40,585 --> 00:43:43,585
No, but if the presumption is here that you want Bitcoin,

1044
00:43:43,585 --> 00:43:47,585
again, with each step you have a payment.

1045
00:43:47,585 --> 00:43:50,585
Bitcoin, fiat, Litecoin.

1046
00:43:50,585 --> 00:43:51,585
And then what do you do?

1047
00:43:51,585 --> 00:43:52,585
You buy Bitcoin?

1048
00:43:52,585 --> 00:43:53,585
What are you trying to say?

1049
00:43:53,585 --> 00:43:55,585
No, they just do whatever their payment is,

1050
00:43:55,585 --> 00:43:59,585
like in the darknet market or whatever with Litecoin.

1051
00:43:59,585 --> 00:44:00,585
Because you see, what it implies is that

1052
00:44:00,585 --> 00:44:02,585
if the block space really is fungible,

1053
00:44:04,585 --> 00:44:08,585
and the fees really won't rise,

1054
00:44:08,585 --> 00:44:12,585
it is really good news for the people who prefer large blocks.

1055
00:44:12,585 --> 00:44:15,585
So that's another reason why it is ominous.

1056
00:44:15,585 --> 00:44:16,585
I don't think it's fungible.

1057
00:44:16,585 --> 00:44:18,585
There's no way it's fungible.

1058
00:44:18,585 --> 00:44:19,585
It's the same way as like –

1059
00:44:19,585 --> 00:44:21,585
But it's on a continuum.

1060
00:44:21,585 --> 00:44:22,585
That's what I'm trying to say.

1061
00:44:22,585 --> 00:44:23,585
It's on a continuum,

1062
00:44:23,585 --> 00:44:26,585
and it's not as though people will pay.

1063
00:44:26,585 --> 00:44:27,585
We don't know.

1064
00:44:27,585 --> 00:44:28,585
Will everyone think about it?

1065
00:44:28,585 --> 00:44:30,585
There's thousands of transactions per block,

1066
00:44:30,585 --> 00:44:32,585
and there's one block every 10 minutes.

1067
00:44:33,585 --> 00:44:35,585
So obviously there are a lot of people in the world,

1068
00:44:35,585 --> 00:44:37,585
but there's a thousand blocks a week.

1069
00:44:37,585 --> 00:44:41,585
There's one block every 10 minutes.

1070
00:44:41,585 --> 00:44:43,585
There's thousands of transactions per block.

1071
00:44:43,585 --> 00:44:45,585
So there's a lot of block space.

1072
00:44:45,585 --> 00:44:47,585
I get your point, Drew.

1073
00:44:47,585 --> 00:44:51,585
Will every single person in there on average be paying $50?

1074
00:44:53,585 --> 00:44:54,585
Maybe.

1075
00:44:55,585 --> 00:44:57,585
But maybe they'll just go down the street to think,

1076
00:44:57,585 --> 00:45:00,585
if they pay $50, will they pay $100?

1077
00:45:00,585 --> 00:45:02,585
Will they pay $200?

1078
00:45:02,585 --> 00:45:04,585
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

1079
00:45:04,585 --> 00:45:07,585
Where will they stop paying?

1080
00:45:07,585 --> 00:45:09,585
I think the analogy is like,

1081
00:45:09,585 --> 00:45:12,585
you can have two pair of boots.

1082
00:45:12,585 --> 00:45:14,585
One that are made out of rubber,

1083
00:45:14,585 --> 00:45:15,585
and one that are made out of cardboard,

1084
00:45:15,585 --> 00:45:16,585
but they're painted,

1085
00:45:16,585 --> 00:45:18,585
and you can't distinguish them for each other.

1086
00:45:18,585 --> 00:45:20,585
Now the thing is like –

1087
00:45:20,585 --> 00:45:23,585
No, I agree that Litecoins are worse than BTC.

1088
00:45:23,585 --> 00:45:24,585
I agree with that.

1089
00:45:24,585 --> 00:45:26,585
So one of them, they look the same.

1090
00:45:26,585 --> 00:45:28,585
Now if one of them is cheaper.

1091
00:45:28,585 --> 00:45:31,585
Now if you walk outside and there's no rain outside,

1092
00:45:31,585 --> 00:45:33,585
there's no problem.

1093
00:45:33,585 --> 00:45:34,585
So it's going to be fine.

1094
00:45:34,585 --> 00:45:36,585
But as soon as there's a little rain,

1095
00:45:36,585 --> 00:45:38,585
it's obviously going to get exposed,

1096
00:45:38,585 --> 00:45:39,585
and you're going to be like,

1097
00:45:39,585 --> 00:45:41,585
oh shit, I should have paid for the other ones.

1098
00:45:41,585 --> 00:45:43,585
So that's how it's the block space.

1099
00:45:43,585 --> 00:45:44,585
I don't think it's fungible.

1100
00:45:44,585 --> 00:45:46,585
I think if you think it's fungible,

1101
00:45:46,585 --> 00:45:49,585
you're clearly not analyzing properly or something, right?

1102
00:45:49,585 --> 00:45:51,585
I don't think it's completely fungible.

1103
00:45:51,585 --> 00:45:53,585
I don't think it's –

1104
00:45:53,585 --> 00:45:55,585
With Litecoin, you still have your keys.

1105
00:45:56,585 --> 00:45:58,585
It's still not your keys, not your coins.

1106
00:45:58,585 --> 00:46:00,585
But one second.

1107
00:46:00,585 --> 00:46:03,585
There's still anonymity.

1108
00:46:03,585 --> 00:46:05,585
It actually has a lot of the features.

1109
00:46:05,585 --> 00:46:07,585
It's the same code, basically.

1110
00:46:07,585 --> 00:46:09,585
It's just a patch set that just runs on top of it.

1111
00:46:09,585 --> 00:46:11,585
Do you remember the conversation we had last time,

1112
00:46:11,585 --> 00:46:13,585
and we couldn't articulate it,

1113
00:46:13,585 --> 00:46:16,585
but we both thought it was interesting that Bitcoin was Bitcoin

1114
00:46:16,585 --> 00:46:18,585
just because it was first and it's Bitcoin?

1115
00:46:18,585 --> 00:46:19,585
Yes.

1116
00:46:19,585 --> 00:46:21,585
If somehow I would have managed to articulate that,

1117
00:46:21,585 --> 00:46:24,585
maybe now that would have served as a good argument.

1118
00:46:24,585 --> 00:46:26,585
Yeah, I agree about –

1119
00:46:26,585 --> 00:46:28,585
I'm just talking about with payments.

1120
00:46:28,585 --> 00:46:32,585
So I'm not talking about demand for using it as a settlement

1121
00:46:32,585 --> 00:46:34,585
or a store of value or anything like that.

1122
00:46:34,585 --> 00:46:36,585
Because using it as a store of value

1123
00:46:36,585 --> 00:46:38,585
doesn't generate transaction fees for miners.

1124
00:46:38,585 --> 00:46:40,585
You're right.

1125
00:46:40,585 --> 00:46:41,585
So let's think of a few scenarios

1126
00:46:41,585 --> 00:46:43,585
where you would want to use it as payment.

1127
00:46:43,585 --> 00:46:45,585
So you have some Bitcoin from a long time,

1128
00:46:45,585 --> 00:46:48,585
and now you want to use it because it's worth a lot.

1129
00:46:48,585 --> 00:46:50,585
Well, if you're going to do that,

1130
00:46:50,585 --> 00:46:51,585
you're probably – even if the fees are high,

1131
00:46:51,585 --> 00:46:53,585
you might end up still paying with Bitcoin

1132
00:46:53,585 --> 00:46:56,585
because you don't want to convert and back and forth.

1133
00:46:56,585 --> 00:46:59,585
A lot of people will be rich because of Bitcoin.

1134
00:46:59,585 --> 00:47:01,585
They won't care about any expenses.

1135
00:47:01,585 --> 00:47:03,585
So it goes back to our argument.

1136
00:47:03,585 --> 00:47:05,585
Okay, so then another scenario would be that

1137
00:47:05,585 --> 00:47:07,585
somehow someone has fiat.

1138
00:47:07,585 --> 00:47:09,585
They need to make a payment with a cryptocurrency.

1139
00:47:09,585 --> 00:47:12,585
And the thing is there's the same fee

1140
00:47:12,585 --> 00:47:15,585
when you try to get in cryptocurrency land,

1141
00:47:15,585 --> 00:47:17,585
with Bitcoin and Litecoin, let's say.

1142
00:47:17,585 --> 00:47:19,585
No, it would be different.

1143
00:47:19,585 --> 00:47:21,585
Right? Don't you mean?

1144
00:47:21,585 --> 00:47:23,585
Oh, you mean like the Coinbase fee or something?

1145
00:47:23,585 --> 00:47:24,585
No, I mean when you buy.

1146
00:47:24,585 --> 00:47:26,585
When you're buying from an exchange,

1147
00:47:26,585 --> 00:47:28,585
it should be roughly the same, right?

1148
00:47:28,585 --> 00:47:29,585
Sure, yeah.

1149
00:47:29,585 --> 00:47:30,585
And then the problem is going to be –

1150
00:47:30,585 --> 00:47:31,585
I mean, it really shouldn't though

1151
00:47:31,585 --> 00:47:32,585
because they have to transfer it to you.

1152
00:47:32,585 --> 00:47:34,585
So it's one transaction fee.

1153
00:47:34,585 --> 00:47:37,585
It should still be cheaper to buy

1154
00:47:37,585 --> 00:47:40,585
whichever one has the lowest Layer 1 fee, right?

1155
00:47:40,585 --> 00:47:42,585
So then you would think that it would get to the point

1156
00:47:42,585 --> 00:47:44,585
where like who has the lower Layer 1 fee

1157
00:47:44,585 --> 00:47:46,585
is going to be more expensive on buying it.

1158
00:47:46,585 --> 00:47:49,585
No, I just think that –

1159
00:47:49,585 --> 00:47:52,585
I think there's some competition.

1160
00:47:52,585 --> 00:47:55,585
So let's say you're trying to buy something.

1161
00:47:55,585 --> 00:47:58,585
You're trying to buy whatever.

1162
00:47:58,585 --> 00:48:00,585
You are trying to buy heroin

1163
00:48:00,585 --> 00:48:02,585
and you live in the United States

1164
00:48:02,585 --> 00:48:05,585
and you can either go BTC.

1165
00:48:05,585 --> 00:48:06,585
Yeah, exactly.

1166
00:48:06,585 --> 00:48:09,585
And you go BTC and it's whatever,

1167
00:48:09,585 --> 00:48:12,585
$50 to get the BTC, $50 to send the BTC.

1168
00:48:12,585 --> 00:48:14,585
It's $100.

1169
00:48:14,585 --> 00:48:17,585
It's $100 of heroin that you could –

1170
00:48:17,585 --> 00:48:18,585
$100 more that you could have

1171
00:48:18,585 --> 00:48:21,585
if you did the same thing with something else.

1172
00:48:21,585 --> 00:48:24,585
And so I think the $50 is not –

1173
00:48:24,585 --> 00:48:25,585
it's not like –

1174
00:48:25,585 --> 00:48:27,585
I don't know what the number is.

1175
00:48:27,585 --> 00:48:28,585
I'm just saying when the fees –

1176
00:48:28,585 --> 00:48:29,585
I'm just saying $10 is a number

1177
00:48:29,585 --> 00:48:31,585
where people start to say,

1178
00:48:31,585 --> 00:48:33,585
I'm kind of annoyed by this.

1179
00:48:33,585 --> 00:48:34,585
Before that, they would maybe not say –

1180
00:48:34,585 --> 00:48:36,585
if you really account for all the time

1181
00:48:36,585 --> 00:48:37,585
they would have to spend

1182
00:48:37,585 --> 00:48:39,585
researching wallets and things.

1183
00:48:39,585 --> 00:48:41,585
Below that, people would say,

1184
00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:44,585
okay, $10, I'm already in for a penny,

1185
00:48:44,585 --> 00:48:48,585
I'm in for a pound as they say.

1186
00:48:48,585 --> 00:48:50,585
Look, listen, there's no disagreement.

1187
00:48:50,585 --> 00:48:51,585
Your point is very valid.

1188
00:48:51,585 --> 00:48:52,585
The disagreement is that in the Fed,

1189
00:48:52,585 --> 00:48:54,585
if you think they will go to Litecoin

1190
00:48:54,585 --> 00:48:55,585
and whatever, and I think they won't.

1191
00:48:55,585 --> 00:48:57,585
That's what we're discussing right now.

1192
00:48:57,585 --> 00:48:59,585
Well, I think it's possible.

1193
00:48:59,585 --> 00:49:00,585
I mean, I think –

1194
00:49:00,585 --> 00:49:02,585
I certainly think eventually,

1195
00:49:02,585 --> 00:49:04,585
what if it were like $3,000

1196
00:49:04,585 --> 00:49:06,585
for Bitcoin transaction

1197
00:49:06,585 --> 00:49:08,585
and $0 for Litecoin transaction?

1198
00:49:08,585 --> 00:49:09,585
Eventually, they would.

1199
00:49:09,585 --> 00:49:10,585
People are right.

1200
00:49:10,585 --> 00:49:13,585
You're such a fucking shit coiner anyway.

1201
00:49:13,585 --> 00:49:14,585
Yeah, well, that's why this article

1202
00:49:14,585 --> 00:49:15,585
was very controversial.

1203
00:49:15,585 --> 00:49:17,585
Although a lot of people misinterpreted it

1204
00:49:17,585 --> 00:49:19,585
as saying these are too high,

1205
00:49:19,585 --> 00:49:20,585
which is funny because it's the opposite

1206
00:49:20,585 --> 00:49:21,585
of what it said.

1207
00:49:21,585 --> 00:49:23,585
I think they were pretty reasonable things.

1208
00:49:23,585 --> 00:49:24,585
If they were the same things

1209
00:49:24,585 --> 00:49:25,585
that you said here,

1210
00:49:25,585 --> 00:49:26,585
I don't think they were that outrageous

1211
00:49:26,585 --> 00:49:27,585
or anything.

1212
00:49:27,585 --> 00:49:29,585
Yeah, so that was all about Dan Held,

1213
00:49:29,585 --> 00:49:30,585
the thing that I had with Dan Held.

1214
00:49:30,585 --> 00:49:32,585
So this was all Dan Held's tangent.

1215
00:49:32,585 --> 00:49:34,585
Yeah, that's how to start out.

1216
00:49:34,585 --> 00:49:36,585
So –

1217
00:49:36,585 --> 00:49:39,585
I know there's a point in the podcast

1218
00:49:39,585 --> 00:49:40,585
where you say,

1219
00:49:40,585 --> 00:49:42,585
my friend, I just explained to you

1220
00:49:43,585 --> 00:49:44,585
that you use the expression,

1221
00:49:44,585 --> 00:49:46,585
my friend, a lot when you get annoyed.

1222
00:49:46,585 --> 00:49:47,585
I know.

1223
00:49:47,585 --> 00:49:48,585
I guess so.

1224
00:49:48,585 --> 00:49:49,585
Oh, but there's something

1225
00:49:49,585 --> 00:49:51,585
that kind of inspired me

1226
00:49:51,585 --> 00:49:53,585
to even do this podcast with you

1227
00:49:53,585 --> 00:49:54,585
at all in the first place,

1228
00:49:54,585 --> 00:49:56,585
which is I was talking

1229
00:49:56,585 --> 00:49:59,585
and at the end he says something like,

1230
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:26,000
yeah, he's like, I work for Kraken, I do BizDev. And he said something like, I do
most of my work on Twitter. And I was just stunned by this sentence. And I just
think it's crazy. I mean, maybe, I don't know. It's like, what if you have a college
student and they were like, this is back when they had libraries, kids, now there's
only Zoom.

1231
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:38,000
But kids would be like, oh, I do most of my work in the library or something like I
do most of my work in the dorm. I do most of my work in the engineering quad or
whatever, you know, where the students do their work.

1232
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:53,000
And one of the students says something like, I do most of my work in the cocaine
factory. I was like, work on Twitter? I was like, Twitter, like the fake place of
illusions and brainwashing.

1233
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,000
As funny.

1234
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:06,000
I just think like, that's a good job. And I was like, what the fuck is going on?
That was like, that was so that type of thing.

1235
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:12,000
As funny as your joke was with the cocaine factory, I think you're so dead wrong on
this one.

1236
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,000
I guess so. I guess so.

1237
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,000
Dude, look, listen.

1238
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:34,000
But that was like, it opened my eyes to this world that people can do a job on
Twitter that's not like the, you know, 25 year old social media manager that you do
like a little bit. And it's not like the Donald Trump cleverly crafted like
campaign, subversive campaign.

1239
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:45,000
Won't come back to reality. Yeah, it is. It's one of the most important things. The
other thing, you can have your social media game better and have a fictitious
product, and that's going to work out better than having the best product and
whatever.

1240
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,000
But anyway.

1241
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,000
Yeah, so that was shocking to me. And that someone would even say it out loud.

1242
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:57,000
But the thing is like, that's the most wanted skill right now. It's more, you know
how people say learn to code? It's like, get the fuck out of here. Anyone can learn
to code.

1243
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,000
I guess so.

1244
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:06,000
That's a harder skill. Because coding, here's the thing right now. If you put enough
time, anyone can learn C. Literally anyone almost on the planet can learn C, right?

1245
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,000
I don't know about that.

1246
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:19,000
Oh, come on. Anyway, but the thing is like to learn the social media thing, it's too
new. It's changing so fast. There's no book. Literally, you have to like do your own
thing and learn on the spot and figure out your own metrics and your own
measurements and everything.

1247
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:35,000
There's some tools, but the good ones are not like that, right? So that's the thing.
Like that's the craziest thing. And those are the people who are going to – it is
about evaluating information. That's a big part of life though. It's evaluating
reality and acting on your evaluation.

1248
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,000
Life tips from Alex.

1249
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Come on. I'm serious.

1250
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,000
Big part of life. Evaluating reality.

1251
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:50,000
No, there's two main things in leading a fulfilling life however you define it is
evaluating reality and acting on those evaluations accordingly.

1252
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:56,000
Well, that's the same thing on Twitter is evaluating what's happening and then
acting on them or making other people. No, that doesn't make sense.

1253
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,000
Sure.

1254
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,000
Anyway.

1255
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,000
Having a yellow shirt. Having one yellow shirt.

1256
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,000
I have 21 yellow shirts. That's besides the point.

1257
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,000
And five guitars.

1258
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,000
I only have three guitars left right now.

1259
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Oh, really? It's down to three.

1260
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,000
I'm going to be down to two or one I think.

1261
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:20,000
Two or one. That's amazing. And are you going to become a Tibetan monk and just have
nothing and just meditate on the side of a mountain?

1262
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:25,000
No, but I only want to have things that I use them every day.

1263
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:33,000
Did I tell you this joke already that – because my father was into this kind of
stuff so we got him a Christmas card once and it was a – did I tell this joke
already?

1264
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,000
No, go on.

1265
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,000
I hate telling the same joke.

1266
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,000
No, go on. I've heard it.

1267
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:41,000
And it's like a Tibetan – they're like Tibetan Buddhist monks and they have a big
box with a bow like a Christmas present.

1268
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:52,000
He opens it, the box, and it's like just what I always wanted, nothing.

1269
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,000
I appreciate that to be funny because if you meditate, it looks like that from the
exterior.

1270
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,000
It kind of is like that but you have to do it to realize it's not about that.

1271
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,000
So that's why I appreciate the joke.

1272
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,000
I don't know, man.

1273
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,000
There you go.

1274
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:11,000
I'm not – I told you I really want to – I want to lose all my baggages, all of them,
dude, most of them.

1275
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,000
If I lose all of them, I'm totally dead.

1276
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:18,000
But I want to be a bit more – I feel I'm not creative and artistic as I used to be.

1277
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,000
You know what the thing is like when I used to – dude, listen.

1278
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:28,000
When I smoked weed the first time, it felt like it made so much sense and I smoked a
lot of it.

1279
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,000
And I've never – you know like a lot of –

1280
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,000
Do you think that's just the making sense brain sort of being short-circuited?

1281
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,000
No, I don't know.

1282
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,000
The thing is like – so I took a puff.

1283
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,000
Because that's the thing about marijuana is people do marijuana and then they think
–

1284
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,000
they're sitting on a couch but they think that they're doing the most important
thing in the world.

1285
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,000
No, that's not what it was.

1286
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:51,000
What I liked it was like – so I got drunk a lot of times and I liked that.

1287
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,000
But as soon as I took that puff, I took a big one and it hit me like fairly fast.

1288
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,000
And as soon as the high started going in my head and how much –

1289
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,000
I could literally feel my brain changing in my perspective.

1290
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,000
I knew from – like in those probably was a few seconds.

1291
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,000
I don't know.

1292
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,000
It felt like an instance, right?

1293
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,000
Oh, I get this.

1294
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,000
I'm going to like it right now.

1295
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,000
And the thing is like I did it a lot.

1296
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,000
I did it a lot.

1297
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,000
And I would – I never had a panic attack or a bad experience.

1298
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,000
Dude, ever for like four years or something like that, right?

1299
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,000
And always – every people I ever smoked with – I even smoked weed with hundreds of
people.

1300
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,000
They always have this problem where like sometimes they would get some form of panic
or some weird thing.

1301
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,000
I've never had it.

1302
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,000
And I thought about it and I've had some after I moved to London, by the way,

1303
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,000
because life got a bit more real.

1304
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,000
And I realized the reason I've never used to have those things is because I never
had any baggage.

1305
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,000
Literally, no baggage.

1306
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,000
I didn't care about anything.

1307
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,000
Like I didn't own any positions.

1308
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,000
I always lived out of a backpack even when I had a lot of money.

1309
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,000
And I didn't have anything to worry.

1310
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,000
I literally did everything I wanted every day and I didn't have to worry about
anything.

1311
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,000
And I want to see if I could go back to that state.

1312
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,000
That's why.

1313
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,000
And positions is the first thing I have to let go of.

1314
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,000
So, yeah.

1315
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,000
That's why.

1316
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,000
Yeah, but then you have to let go of the podcast paradox.

1317
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,000
No, it's not.

1318
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,000
The podcast is not a position.

1319
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,000
What about the microphone?

1320
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,000
No, but there's a rule.

1321
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:16,000
If there's an object that I use every day or that allows me to abstract somehow or
communicate my ideas, it gets to stay.

1322
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,000
That's why a guitar will stay.

1323
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,000
But not all of them because I don't need all of them.

1324
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,000
Yeah, but you're going to be on Twitter though.

1325
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,000
I want to be like, dude, listen.

1326
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,000
My purpose right now is to work on Twitter myself.

1327
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,000
I know.

1328
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:32,000
It's horrifying.

1329
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:41,000
Well, it seemed that Dan lost this particular Twitter battle to Matt Odell in the
court of public opinion as measured by Twitter likes.

1330
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,000
As measured by people who listen to Odell's podcast.

1331
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,000
By Twitter likes.

1332
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,000
I'm trying to find a tweet.

1333
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Okay, here it is.

1334
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,000
Yeah, it's at the bottom.

1335
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,000
So it was slightly dramatic.

1336
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,000
So basically let me explain it now for people because I made some notes.

1337
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:07,000
So the struggle of Bitcoin, let me just give you some random background thoughts of
mine so you can just ignore them when I get to the real explanation.

1338
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:15,000
But like every Bitcoin company has a lower return on investment than just holding
BTC.

1339
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,000
So the question is, isn't everything else just a scam?

1340
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,000
And the answer is probably yes.

1341
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,000
Some people say, what about the exchanges?

1342
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,000
They made a lot of money.

1343
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:30,000
But, you know, the exchanges will ultimately, if there's hyper-Bitcoinization, the
exchanges will be worthless.

1344
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,000
And then BTC price will have appreciated more than the exchanges.

1345
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,000
So it's possible that even investing in exchanges is a scam.

1346
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:47,000
It's possible that everything other than just owning Bitcoin is a giant scam once
you become red pilled by Bitcoin.

1347
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,000
That's dumb. That makes zero sense.

1348
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:53,000
I'm just saying that's just an idea that some people have, including me.

1349
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,000
Okay, that's idiotic though.

1350
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:06,000
But so related to that is Matt's podcast takes money from Cash App, which is, I
mean, it does KYC because everyone does it.

1351
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,000
So that's kind of what happened basically.

1352
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:16,000
So therefore, Dan Held felt compelled to weigh in because everyone wanted to know
his opinion.

1353
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,000
And he said that Matt is a hypocrite.

1354
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:24,000
And then Matt said that he's a shameless piece of trash, basically.

1355
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,000
And then that happened.

1356
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,000
And then everyone weighed in by liking one tweet or the other.

1357
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:36,000
Well, you know what the thing is, first of all, clearly Dan was unprepared here.

1358
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:41,000
And he never listened to the podcast because Matt said that like literally hundreds
of times on the podcast.

1359
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,000
So that was a bet. He was presumptuous.

1360
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Now, second of all, I think a lot of people just hate Dan Held because they hate
him.

1361
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:56,000
Because again, I don't want to have Matt who goes like, I don't want to do a bad
Matt Odell in person.

1362
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,000
But he's very like, he sounds very unsure of himself.

1363
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,000
He's like, he just was born now.

1364
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,000
That's how he sounds like.

1365
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,000
And Marty Bentz always sounds like he came back from a drug.

1366
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,000
He literally always – you can breathe in really hard, dude.

1367
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,000
That's the thing. It's like, dude, what the fuck is happening with you,
motherfucker?

1368
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,000
That guy is one of the most unsure guys in the world.

1369
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:19,000
Matt Odell sounds like he just broke a glass and didn't know where the cleaning
supplies are.

1370
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,000
Well, it's funny. What you see is the stay humble.

1371
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:27,000
I think a lot of people like the stay humble whatever motif.

1372
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,000
Let me make this very clear.

1373
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,000
Staying humble is for fucking losers.

1374
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,000
What? Really? I'm surprised you say that.

1375
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,000
I actually like it a lot.

1376
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,000
There you go. Prove my fucking point.

1377
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,000
Prove my point. There you go.

1378
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,000
I guess so.

1379
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,000
Here's my problem with it, like serious, on a serious note.

1380
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,000
I think it makes sense sometimes to be humble.

1381
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,000
And sometimes, again, you could even be gracious.

1382
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,000
And it's just good to do it for yourself.

1383
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,000
Oh, I see.

1384
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,000
I'm necessarily proud of that.

1385
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,000
But, but, but.

1386
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000
But what about the Nietzschean call to greatness?

1387
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,000
One second right now.

1388
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,000
That's what you're going to say right now, right?

1389
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,000
No, no, no. What I'm going to say is that, dude.

1390
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,000
If you, so like if you are Michael Jordan right now.

1391
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,000
And there's some other people who are not Michael Jordan.

1392
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,000
And they feel bad because they're shit at basketball.

1393
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:12,000
And that's life. There's nothing wrong with them.

1394
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,000
They're just shit at basketball.

1395
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,000
And you're being humble just to comfort these people.

1396
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000
That's bad.

1397
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,000
Because you're Michael Jordan.

1398
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,000
You should be Michael Jordan.

1399
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,000
I don't think it is a patronizing humility though.

1400
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,000
No, it's not patronizing.

1401
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,000
But it is a bit subversive and not honest.

1402
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,000
That's what I'm trying to say.

1403
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,000
That could be true.

1404
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,000
But I don't think it's necessarily true either.

1405
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:36,000
Because basketball, it's obvious like who is the best player.

1406
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,000
If you just play, it's not obvious.

1407
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,000
But there is a metric like points scored per game.

1408
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,000
Whereas reality is very complicated.

1409
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,000
You know, Bitcoin could crash to zero tomorrow.

1410
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,000
Look, you're right. You're right. You're right.

1411
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Fair enough. Maybe that's a bad idea.

1412
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,000
But the reason why I don't like humility is because.

1413
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,000
So I see like two ways of going about this situation.

1414
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:56,000
I could be very humble.

1415
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,000
And some people might be like, oh, he's a humble guy.

1416
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:03,000
But because I was humble and I didn't have the arrogance,

1417
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,000
I didn't push far enough and I couldn't elevate myself.

1418
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,000
Or I could be arrogant.

1419
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,000
And some people are going to hate me, but I won.

1420
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,000
So, fuck you guys, but I don't know who you are.

1421
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,000
No, but I think that is a true thing.

1422
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:22,000
There is this old, super old, like there is a Nietzschean thing about like master
and slave morality.

1423
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,000
Are you familiar with this?

1424
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:24,000
No.

1425
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,000
Is this a sex game or something like that?

1426
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,000
No, unfortunately, we have a point about that later.

1427
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,000
So we'll get to that too.

1428
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,000
Stay tuned.

1429
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:37,000
And as last time, the Bitcoin sex education is brought to you by DriveChains.

1430
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,000
Paul Sztorc, known expert.

1431
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,000
Please continue with your point.

1432
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:47,000
No, it's like there is a morality of.

1433
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:54,000
Well, God, like anyone who ever tries to explain Nietzsche is really like, you know,
you're going out on a limb.

1434
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000
I'll try.

1435
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,000
Let me explain Nietzsche to you.

1436
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,000
No, God is dead.

1437
01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:59,000
Go have orgies.

1438
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:00,000
Done.

1439
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,000
That's Nietzsche for you.

1440
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Something like that.

1441
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000
So, well, he has a critique of Christianity that says it's about how to be a good
servant and a good member of the community.

1442
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:10,000
And that it's about obeying and being humble.

1443
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:16,000
So you could say that Matt O'Dell is humility, Christian humility.

1444
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,000
Thing.

1445
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:18,000
Okay.

1446
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:19,000
So that's the slave.

1447
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,000
The master slave.

1448
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,000
It has no.

1449
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,000
When he wrote it, it had not.

1450
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,000
I don't know.

1451
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:24,000
I don't think he was trying to start anything.

1452
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,000
No.

1453
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,000
But he is.

1454
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,000
The master thing is more like ancient Rome.

1455
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,000
And just like you're going to conquer because you're the best.

1456
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,000
And then you're going to build your roads into their country because your roads are
the best.

1457
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:38,000
And your education is the best.

1458
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,000
And your sanitation is the best.

1459
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,000
And you're just going to, your gods are the best.

1460
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,000
And you're just going to, you, that's it.

1461
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:49,000
And it's just guys, you know, it's just guys with swords who are just going to kill
everyone.

1462
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:57,000
And then you're going to take whatever you want, you know, and that's like, you
know, the master of morality.

1463
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:03,000
I'm sure maybe we'll get, I'll get a telegram messages from people who know more
about what that is.

1464
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:07,000
But you're kind of on that wavelength.

1465
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,000
So maybe you should look that up.

1466
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,000
I definitely am on it.

1467
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,000
There's another thing like, there's like a Rick.

1468
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,000
Okay.

1469
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,000
So you do, you must like the Rick and Morty show.

1470
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,000
A hundred percent.

1471
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,000
Yeah.

1472
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,000
Because it's along these lines that Rick Sanchez is sort of.

1473
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,000
Yeah, exactly.

1474
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:28,000
He has a boldness and he's not afraid of who he is and he's going to destroy
something if it's in his way.

1475
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:38,000
And there's a critique, the foil of his character is the dad who is unsure of
himself and he has no confidence and he's a failure.

1476
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:39,000
Right.

1477
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,000
Well, you know what?

1478
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:46,000
The thing is like, by the way, if you talk more than 10 seconds with me, you already
know that's like, like, that's what I am.

1479
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,000
I'm probably going to yell.

1480
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,000
And it's like, no, no, no.

1481
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,000
This is this.

1482
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,000
We go for it.

1483
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:51,000
Done.

1484
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,000
No, no, no, no.

1485
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,000
Sorry.

1486
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,000
And here's the honest truth.

1487
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,000
I wasn't always like that.

1488
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,000
I mean, I was so shy in the first part of my life.

1489
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,000
I was super, super, super shy.

1490
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,000
And I was so scared.

1491
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,000
And I was, I was brought up by my mom and my dad and my grandma in this very
Christian way.

1492
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,000
And I was very much like that with humble.

1493
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,000
No, no one is whatever.

1494
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:15,000
And like, I just, one day I realized this doesn't give any results and it's stupid.

1495
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,000
And it's, it's theoretical knowledge that has, it's folklore.

1496
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,000
It doesn't have any value.

1497
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,000
So I purposely tried to look every time at things for what they are.

1498
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,000
And it just gives better results not to be humble.

1499
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,000
Because what do you want?

1500
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,000
Here's the thing right now.

1501
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Do you want some people who are never going to meet you in your life to nudge your
head at you?

1502
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,000
Or do you want to get something done?

1503
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,000
Whatever it is.

1504
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,000
Well, you're going to piss off people when you get something done.

1505
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,000
So you can't worry about these people.

1506
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,000
Because I wouldn't mind if you worry.

1507
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,000
I would worry about what you think about me.

1508
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,000
But I can't worry about what some other people think about me.

1509
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,000
I don't know.

1510
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,000
Because it's just getting in my way and getting me nothing in return.

1511
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,000
Literally nothing.

1512
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,000
So I can't do that.

1513
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,000
That's clearly a bad way to go about life.

1514
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:06,000
It depends sometimes on if you live in a sort of static environment or a changing
one.

1515
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:12,000
If the environment you're in doesn't change that much, then it is maybe better to
just be more deferential.

1516
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:16,000
Because most changes might not be improvements.

1517
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,000
I don't even see it like that.

1518
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,000
It's agnostic of the environment.

1519
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,000
I think it's very simple, dude.

1520
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,000
There are two types of people in this world.

1521
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,000
And there seems to be this duality of reality.

1522
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,000
In life, you're either a slinging dick or a limp dicking.

1523
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:32,000
That's how it is.

1524
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,000
That's just how life is.

1525
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,000
And it's very simple.

1526
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Some people try to sling dick.

1527
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,000
And out of these, some do it.

1528
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,000
And some don't.

1529
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,000
And there's nothing wrong with all of them.

1530
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,000
Even though I use the same thing.

1531
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,000
But it's a choice.

1532
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,000
If you want to sling dick, you have to employ this attitude.

1533
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,000
You will never sling dick with this attitude.

1534
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:53,000
I'm sure there are people who rationalize it.

1535
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,000
But no, you're not.

1536
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,000
Michael Jordan.

1537
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:57,000
Just watch that fucking documentary.

1538
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,000
And you can watch someone that goes through his life.

1539
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,000
And he realized that was a thing.

1540
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,000
But you need to be like a feral animal.

1541
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,000
And every second, like get in this mode.

1542
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:12,000
Because every time you're not, you're getting distancing away from this thing that
you're trying to do.

1543
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,000
So I don't know what's so unclear for people.

1544
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,000
I don't know why the fuck people tweet things like this.

1545
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,000
It's stupid if you ask me.

1546
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,000
So, yeah.

1547
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,000
There you go.

1548
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,000
Definitely, I think I agree like that if when every graduate student working in
science,

1549
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,000
every entrepreneur thinks that there's something wrong with the way the current
business world works.

1550
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:36,000
And they can take inputs and make better output, get a higher return on investment.

1551
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,000
Every graduate student thinks there's something wrong with what the textbooks say.

1552
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,000
They're trying to find that big idea that will cause the textbooks to be rewritten.

1553
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:51,000
And every artist says that there's different art that people should experience.

1554
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,000
All the existing art isn't as good.

1555
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,000
So there's an inherent arrogance to creation.

1556
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,000
100% there is.

1557
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,000
I think that's a end to progress.

1558
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Because every progress is a change.

1559
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,000
You know what, I really like the documentary.

1560
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:07,000
So I agree with all that.

1561
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,000
What's the problem?

1562
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,000
Maybe I think it's more just a warning.

1563
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:18,000
Stay humble is a warning that says, look, we're all making a lot of money here.

1564
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:22,000
But don't fool yourself because you're the easiest person to fool.

1565
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,000
Quote from...

1566
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:26,000
Look, listen.

1567
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,000
This is like when I got you with Jimi Hendrix before.

1568
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,000
I don't know who it's from.

1569
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,000
Michael Jordan.

1570
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,000
Richard Feynman.

1571
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,000
It's Feynman quote.

1572
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:37,000
God damn it.

1573
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,000
God damn it.

1574
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,000
Anyway.

1575
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,000
Don't be fooled.

1576
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,000
And you're the easiest person to fool.

1577
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,000
Here's the thing right now.

1578
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,000
Richard Feynman himself had also arrogance.

1579
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,000
Here's what you don't understand.

1580
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,000
If you are honest with yourself, if you are really honest...

1581
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,000
But wasn't that also humble?

1582
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,000
I don't know.

1583
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,000
But let's just move on.

1584
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,000
Forget about Feynman.

1585
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:00,000
Here's the thing right now.

1586
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,000
If you're really honest with yourself, really like a real honest person in any
situation,

1587
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,000
you don't need to force yourself to be humble.

1588
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,000
Because when you're going too much, you're going to be like,

1589
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:09,000
hey, I'm an idiot.

1590
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,000
Come back.

1591
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,000
Most of the people lie to themselves constantly.

1592
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,000
Lie over lie over lie over lie.

1593
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,000
And at some point, they even lie to themselves and they inflate themselves.

1594
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,000
Because they're not truthful with themselves.

1595
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,000
That's why they need the humbleness to calm them down.

1596
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,000
But if you're honest...

1597
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,000
It's not like Michael Jordan would have ever went like,

1598
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,000
I had a bad gimme.

1599
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,000
He's going to be like, no.

1600
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,000
You have to be realistic about it.

1601
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,000
So that's why, again, I feel there's something wrong about it.

1602
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,000
I think there's something to your philosophy, but I don't think it's fully...

1603
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,000
It's half-baked to me.

1604
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:38,000
Fair enough.

1605
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,000
But let me tell you what's my thing on arrogance, though.

1606
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,000
You know what's really great about guitar playing, man?

1607
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,000
That even Jimi Hendrix, even Joe Bonamassa, everyone,

1608
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,000
everyone who ever started playing guitar started the same amount.

1609
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,000
It's in the same way.

1610
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,000
They were in their room.

1611
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,000
They had a big fucking dream.

1612
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,000
And one day, they hope they're going to play their guitar.

1613
01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,000
Now, here's the thing right now.

1614
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,000
When you look at a guitar instrument, it's a very weird thing.

1615
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,000
It's using strings to vibrate.

1616
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,000
And you're going to convince your parents to buy this from you,

1617
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,000
which probably is a lot of money because you're a kid and whatever.

1618
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:15,000
And you are saying, this alien thing that doesn't make any sense and makes sounds,

1619
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,000
I'm going to master it.

1620
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,000
That's what you're saying when you say, I'm going to pick up a guitar.

1621
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,000
That takes arrogance because it's the same as saying, I'm going to juggle.

1622
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,000
It's the same as saying, I'm going to learn differential equations.

1623
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,000
It takes a certain arrogance.

1624
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:28,000
It's the same when you say, I'm going to start reading.

1625
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,000
It's the same when you're saying, you're going to fuck a girl.

1626
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,000
I'm going to go and get that girl home with me.

1627
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,000
It takes arrogance.

1628
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,000
And most of the time, you're right.

1629
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,000
That arrogance is going to be crushed down.

1630
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:39,000
But you need this arrogance.

1631
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:44,000
You need to fool who you are right now just a bit so you can get that person.

1632
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,000
So that's why I think arrogance is necessary.

1633
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:47,000
And you're right.

1634
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:50,000
A lot of the time, you could do stupid things without arrogance.

1635
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:51,000
Everyone did that.

1636
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,000
But, again, if you're an honest person with yourself, you should never worry about
it

1637
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,000
because you're going to be honest.

1638
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,000
You're going to be like, okay, I got a sidetrack.

1639
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,000
So that's why when I hear someone say combo, it's like, go fuck yourself, dude.

1640
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,000
Maybe there's that fucking guy who if he would have had this light, this arrogance
himself,

1641
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,000
he would have been Jimi Hendrix.

1642
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,000
Fuck you.

1643
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,000
I don't care about if other people feel bad.

1644
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,000
I don't care about all this fucking shit.

1645
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,000
I care about the Jimi motherfucking Hendrix guy.

1646
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,000
He shouldn't hear those words.

1647
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,000
But the truth is that the Jimi Hendrix, he knows already this.

1648
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,000
And when he hears those words, he would just fold them away.

1649
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,000
So maybe you're not doing any harm to anyone.

1650
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,000
I don't know.

1651
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,000
I just have an allergic reaction to this combo-ness.

1652
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,000
Tie that into a little knot, didn't you?

1653
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:31,000
Because the truly arrogant people would not even listen to you.

1654
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,000
Yeah, that's true.

1655
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,000
Just making it a moot point.

1656
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:41,000
But yeah, would you ever be arrogant enough to sell a $200 piece of plastic with
your name on it?

1657
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,000
My comment when he did that.

1658
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,000
You know what?

1659
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,000
What did he say?

1660
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,000
What was the comment?

1661
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:53,000
My comment was, if Kevin Kline can put his name on the underwear, so can that help?

1662
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,000
That's like what it is.

1663
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,000
That's an apt description.

1664
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,000
Look, I'll be honest with you.

1665
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:03,000
And you know what?

1666
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,000
Now we're really going to get hate mail.

1667
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,000
I like that help more than I like fucking Matt Odell.

1668
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,000
Really?

1669
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,000
That's crazy to me.

1670
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,000
I do.

1671
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,000
Because let me tell you.

1672
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:15,000
We won't get hate mail because I don't agree with you at all.

1673
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:17,000
Only you'll get the hate mail.

1674
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,000
Yeah, I'm going to get hate mail.

1675
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:19,000
Here's the thing right now.

1676
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:25,000
If you would ask me who would you want to go out and have a beer with and talk about
Bitcoin, I'd rather go with Dan Hale.

1677
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,000
What?

1678
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:27,000
I'm serious.

1679
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,000
I would.

1680
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,000
Because I can't.

1681
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,000
It's crazy.

1682
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:31,000
It's a personality thing.

1683
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,000
I can't get along with people who are just very mousy like.

1684
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,000
I don't know.

1685
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:37,000
That's how it feels to me.

1686
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,000
It feels like they don't want to take a stance.

1687
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,000
The only thing they take a stance on hard is shit coins.

1688
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,000
They're bad.

1689
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,000
But they never take a stance on anything.

1690
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,000
What about like, you know, that's not really true.

1691
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,000
But by the KYC, you said it yourself earlier.

1692
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:50,000
Okay.

1693
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,000
I got a bit.

1694
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,000
You know what?

1695
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:53,000
Privacy, notes, wallets and things.

1696
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:54,000
They take a lot of stance on it.

1697
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,000
Teaching people about what they're doing.

1698
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,000
So.

1699
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,000
I'm an idiot and I got a bit excited.

1700
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:00,000
Fair enough.

1701
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,000
My point.

1702
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:02,000
You got a little bit excited.

1703
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,000
But I just like Matt.

1704
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:04,000
I still like him.

1705
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,000
No, because if you would have the beer, then he would open up more and be more like
what you like.

1706
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:09,000
I just like Dan Hale more.

1707
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,000
I'm sorry.

1708
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,000
That's crazy to me.

1709
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:12,000
Personality-wise, I like him more.

1710
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:13,000
Because he's more like me.

1711
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,000
You know?

1712
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:19,000
And he doesn't have these stupid ideologies and he doesn't try to please anyone.

1713
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:20,000
He does.

1714
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,000
You have to sell.

1715
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:22,000
Yeah.

1716
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,000
You have to sell something that's even more ridiculous than his thing.

1717
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:33,000
You have to sell a $400 piece of paper, a sticker to put on your note.

1718
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,000
The Alex sticker.

1719
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:38,000
It's canary yellow.

1720
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,000
No, I like it.

1721
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,000
Here's the thing, Paul.

1722
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:44,000
I sold a lot of things in my life.

1723
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:47,000
Because I – again, I was always put in a situation.

1724
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,000
I sold a lot of things.

1725
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,000
And I sold a lot of Bitcoin most of the time.

1726
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:59,000
But never ever in my life I looked at something and I feel like this is a napkin, a
piece of shit, and I want to sell it.

1727
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,000
Because I don't think I could sell something like that.

1728
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,000
And again, I'm not a good salesman, by the way.

1729
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,000
I just try really hard.

1730
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,000
That's what it is.

1731
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:06,000
I'm not a master for this.

1732
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,000
But the thing is like I could never get myself to sell something because I get
excited very quickly about things.

1733
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,000
And I'm like this is the greatest thing.

1734
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,000
And I can't sell that.

1735
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,000
So if I get the conclusion that this T-shirt makes your life better, I'm going to
start yelling about it.

1736
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,000
I'm going to try to sell it.

1737
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,000
But it's not.

1738
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:23,000
It's just a fucking T-shirt that I chose y'all because of some reasons.

1739
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:24,000
Not the greatest thing in the world.

1740
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:25,000
Don't necessarily do this.

1741
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,000
It's not that great.

1742
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,000
So I can't sell something like that.

1743
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:29,000
I would never sell that.

1744
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:30,000
There you go.

1745
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,000
But you think that – okay.

1746
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,000
You know I can understand your point of view slightly.

1747
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:36,000
Okay.

1748
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:37,000
That's crazy.

1749
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,000
What's crazy?

1750
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:40,000
It's just – I don't know.

1751
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,000
So you like Matt O'Dell more than Dan Held?

1752
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:44,000
Yes.

1753
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:45,000
Why?

1754
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:51,000
I think – I understand what you're saying and that you've got to believe in
yourself.

1755
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,000
Right.

1756
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,000
You know?

1757
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:58,000
I can practically hear like I believe I can fly playing in the background when you
talk.

1758
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:04,000
And, you know.

1759
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:12,000
But I do – I am more worried about the fooling yourself problem.

1760
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:17,000
And yeah, I'm really worried about like cognitive bias and that type of thing.

1761
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,000
I don't want to be fooling myself.

1762
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,000
I want to not be fooled.

1763
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,000
Especially by myself.

1764
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,000
I mean what a betrayal.

1765
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:27,000
This is the thing, man.

1766
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:36,000
And yeah, I think that's selling the Node case for that much money and it just has a
name on it.

1767
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,000
That is a kind of sociopathic narcissism.

1768
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:42,000
Paul, I don't know about the fucking Node thing.

1769
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,000
I think it's a bit nutty.

1770
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:48,000
But regarding the fooling yourself thing, that's what I meant by the prodigal son,
dude.

1771
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:50,000
Sometimes when you –

1772
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,000
I did not understand that at all.

1773
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,000
So when you –

1774
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,000
We got a lot of messages about that.

1775
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,000
That was very popular.

1776
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,000
Maybe you should explain it again.

1777
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,000
You go – the son who leaves.

1778
01:15:00,410 --> 01:15:02,410
The son who leaves is going to the underworld or something.

1779
01:15:02,410 --> 01:15:08,410
So, OK. Let me explain it again. So the prodigal son.

1780
01:15:08,410 --> 01:15:12,410
The fable of the prodigal son adopted by Alex Waltz.

1781
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:16,410
So there is this guy who has some money and he has to give it to his two sons.

1782
01:15:16,410 --> 01:15:19,410
And he says here is the money. Do whatever the fuck you want with it.

1783
01:15:19,410 --> 01:15:21,410
One of them doesn't do nothing and stays home.

1784
01:15:21,410 --> 01:15:24,410
And the other one takes the money, goes out in the world,

1785
01:15:24,410 --> 01:15:29,410
does blow up hookers' tits, does drugs, does everything else that he can do.

1786
01:15:29,410 --> 01:15:33,410
And he ends up in the worst possible scenario of his life.

1787
01:15:33,410 --> 01:15:35,410
He is like fucked really bad right now.

1788
01:15:35,410 --> 01:15:37,410
He doesn't have any money. He has nothing.

1789
01:15:37,410 --> 01:15:41,410
And the only thing he can do is he gets a job as feeding pigs,

1790
01:15:41,410 --> 01:15:44,410
which is the lowest thing he can do in society.

1791
01:15:44,410 --> 01:15:46,410
And it's so bad that he can't even afford food.

1792
01:15:46,410 --> 01:15:50,410
And he can't even feed the food he is feeding the pigs, eat it himself.

1793
01:15:51,410 --> 01:15:54,410
For some fucking miracle, he gets connected with his dad and whatever,

1794
01:15:54,410 --> 01:15:56,410
and he comes back home.

1795
01:15:56,410 --> 01:15:59,410
Now when he comes back home, the dad takes out the fat cow,

1796
01:15:59,410 --> 01:16:03,410
cuts it, throws a big party for him, and takes him in.

1797
01:16:03,410 --> 01:16:07,410
And now when the other son that stayed home with the money and whatever saw this,

1798
01:16:07,410 --> 01:16:10,410
he goes like, hang on now, son. Hang on now, dad.

1799
01:16:10,410 --> 01:16:12,410
What is the bullshit here?

1800
01:16:12,410 --> 01:16:14,410
I've been with you. I stayed with you here all the time.

1801
01:16:14,410 --> 01:16:16,410
You didn't cut no fat cow for me.

1802
01:16:16,410 --> 01:16:17,410
Why are you doing this for him?

1803
01:16:17,410 --> 01:16:20,410
The dad goes like brush him up and goes like, don't worry about it, son.

1804
01:16:20,410 --> 01:16:22,410
You've always been here. It's all good.

1805
01:16:22,410 --> 01:16:27,410
And then looks at the other one and says, you are lost and now you're found.

1806
01:16:27,410 --> 01:16:29,410
So what I'm trying to say is that a lot of times –

1807
01:16:29,410 --> 01:16:32,410
so this represents you going into underworld.

1808
01:16:32,410 --> 01:16:35,410
The same thing that happens in Dante, the Divine Comedy.

1809
01:16:35,410 --> 01:16:38,410
When you go into underworld, the world turns upside down.

1810
01:16:38,410 --> 01:16:39,410
It's something you don't happen.

1811
01:16:39,410 --> 01:16:42,410
Your girlfriend leaves you. You lost your job.

1812
01:16:42,410 --> 01:16:45,410
I don't know. You get arrested. You do drugs. You do all kinds of things.

1813
01:16:45,410 --> 01:16:49,410
You go into this underworld and there's the worst that could happen.

1814
01:16:49,410 --> 01:16:53,410
But the thing is like – but sometimes you also do the right thing.

1815
01:16:53,410 --> 01:16:56,410
That's why you are the dad and those are this duality.

1816
01:16:56,410 --> 01:17:00,410
This is your two types of things you go in.

1817
01:17:00,410 --> 01:17:03,410
But when you go in the underworld and you like –

1818
01:17:03,410 --> 01:17:06,410
when you skip in the underworld, you're going to get out of it eventually.

1819
01:17:06,410 --> 01:17:07,410
You're going to be out of it eventually.

1820
01:17:07,410 --> 01:17:10,410
And you're the risk-taking entrepreneur.

1821
01:17:10,410 --> 01:17:11,410
You at least tried something.

1822
01:17:11,410 --> 01:17:13,410
I tried a lot of things.

1823
01:17:13,410 --> 01:17:17,410
And the thing is like I fed the pigs so many times that right now,

1824
01:17:17,410 --> 01:17:19,410
I know I'm going to end up feeding the pigs again.

1825
01:17:19,410 --> 01:17:24,410
But because I fed them so many times, I know I will get out of it.

1826
01:17:24,410 --> 01:17:26,410
I'll get out of it faster than anyway.

1827
01:17:26,410 --> 01:17:31,410
So somehow you are kind of going for the pigs just to get out of them.

1828
01:17:31,410 --> 01:17:35,410
That's what I – and the same thing went here.

1829
01:17:35,410 --> 01:17:40,410
It's like – how does this tangent start actually?

1830
01:17:40,410 --> 01:17:41,410
I don't know.

1831
01:17:41,410 --> 01:17:42,410
Anyway.

1832
01:17:43,410 --> 01:17:44,410
Yeah, that's the thing.

1833
01:17:44,410 --> 01:17:45,410
You have to feed the pigs sometimes.

1834
01:17:45,410 --> 01:17:48,410
You have to go and feed the pigs.

1835
01:17:48,410 --> 01:17:52,410
Okay, I know how this ties back also with what was before.

1836
01:17:52,410 --> 01:17:54,410
You said, I don't want to fool myself.

1837
01:17:54,410 --> 01:17:56,410
You went back to the Feynman quote.

1838
01:17:56,410 --> 01:17:58,410
Well, here's the thing right now.

1839
01:17:58,410 --> 01:18:02,410
When you end up feeding the pigs, it's because you always fooled yourself.

1840
01:18:02,410 --> 01:18:04,410
That's why.

1841
01:18:04,410 --> 01:18:07,410
Most of the time, you end up feeding the pigs because you fooled yourself.

1842
01:18:07,410 --> 01:18:10,410
So you're going to fool everyone else sometimes.

1843
01:18:10,410 --> 01:18:12,410
You're going to fool yourself most of the time because of yourself.

1844
01:18:12,410 --> 01:18:16,410
But the point is to be able to forget yourself when you feed the pigs.

1845
01:18:16,410 --> 01:18:18,410
That's the thing.

1846
01:18:18,410 --> 01:18:21,410
So you learn from the experience.

1847
01:18:21,410 --> 01:18:22,410
You learn from the experience.

1848
01:18:22,410 --> 01:18:25,410
And if you were wrong – look, if Dan Hill – I don't know.

1849
01:18:25,410 --> 01:18:27,410
But if I would end up like Dan Hill and not be like I'm wrong.

1850
01:18:27,410 --> 01:18:30,410
If he goes and he goes like I was wrong, that was a stupid idea.

1851
01:18:30,410 --> 01:18:32,410
I had to try it and whatever.

1852
01:18:32,410 --> 01:18:34,410
No one is going to hate him for that.

1853
01:18:34,410 --> 01:18:38,410
And first of all, he's not going to hate himself for it because he was honest.

1854
01:18:38,410 --> 01:18:40,410
So that's why I don't know.

1855
01:18:40,410 --> 01:18:44,410
I think there should be more trial and error in society,

1856
01:18:44,410 --> 01:18:46,410
and there should definitely be more forgiveness in society.

1857
01:18:46,410 --> 01:18:48,410
Our society is so crazy.

1858
01:18:48,410 --> 01:18:54,410
It's so like shame-based, like the self-appointed behavior police.

1859
01:18:54,410 --> 01:18:57,410
Give you a life sentence.

1860
01:18:57,410 --> 01:18:59,410
Shout out to Bitcoin Heirloom. What's happening?

1861
01:18:59,410 --> 01:19:01,410
It's funny that you – it's really crazy that you –

1862
01:19:01,410 --> 01:19:07,410
because I think that Dan Hill is also a behavior police, a lot like Bitcoin
Heirloom.

1863
01:19:07,410 --> 01:19:10,410
He's always like saying, you know, whatever.

1864
01:19:10,410 --> 01:19:13,410
This guy wasn't a Bitcoin maximalist the right way.

1865
01:19:13,410 --> 01:19:14,410
Let's shame him.

1866
01:19:14,410 --> 01:19:16,410
I think we're the only ones who are not pretty much.

1867
01:19:16,410 --> 01:19:19,410
The shit-coiners and the big blockers in us, that's pretty much –

1868
01:19:19,410 --> 01:19:22,410
It's a mind virus. It's spread to everyone.

1869
01:19:22,410 --> 01:19:25,410
But you know what? I think there's also the fact that, again,

1870
01:19:25,410 --> 01:19:28,410
no one shows a different way and no one talks about it.

1871
01:19:28,410 --> 01:19:31,410
This is everything you see and like everything you subscribe to, this is their
ethos.

1872
01:19:31,410 --> 01:19:33,410
Like shit-coin is this, shit-coin is that.

1873
01:19:33,410 --> 01:19:36,410
And look, I get they're all dumb. I'm going to tell the same thing.

1874
01:19:36,410 --> 01:19:37,410
You said that already earlier.

1875
01:19:37,410 --> 01:19:40,410
Yeah, but it's like, I mean, come on. Let's take a chill pill.

1876
01:19:40,410 --> 01:19:42,410
Let's talk about something else.

1877
01:19:45,410 --> 01:19:46,410
Well, I don't know.

1878
01:19:46,410 --> 01:19:48,410
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that you do.

1879
01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:51,410
I think you don't know because I'm not sure your whole thing is –

1880
01:19:51,410 --> 01:19:52,410
Which one?

1881
01:19:52,410 --> 01:19:55,410
100% consistent because –

1882
01:19:55,410 --> 01:19:57,410
What thing? What thing do you think is not consistent?

1883
01:19:57,410 --> 01:19:58,410
About –

1884
01:19:58,410 --> 01:19:59,410
You're probably right.

1885
01:19:59,410 --> 01:20:04,410
Well, I was saying before, aren't some of these other projects great?

1886
01:20:04,410 --> 01:20:08,410
Isn't Ethereum like on a trajectory of –

1887
01:20:08,410 --> 01:20:10,410
because I agree with you that it's terrible,

1888
01:20:10,410 --> 01:20:13,410
but don't you think there's like some kind of threat in it?

1889
01:20:13,410 --> 01:20:14,410
No, zero.

1890
01:20:14,410 --> 01:20:15,410
Zero.

1891
01:20:15,410 --> 01:20:16,410
Yeah, I don't know.

1892
01:20:16,410 --> 01:20:20,410
But isn't that like a Giacomo comment or something?

1893
01:20:20,410 --> 01:20:22,410
First of all, I really like Giacomo a lot also.

1894
01:20:22,410 --> 01:20:23,410
I know, me too.

1895
01:20:23,410 --> 01:20:24,410
But I think he's also like –

1896
01:20:24,410 --> 01:20:28,410
I don't know exactly what he –

1897
01:20:28,410 --> 01:20:33,410
sometimes I think he may be like a crazy person.

1898
01:20:34,410 --> 01:20:35,410
I don't know how –

1899
01:20:35,410 --> 01:20:39,410
I never know how much of it is people in on the joke.

1900
01:20:39,410 --> 01:20:40,410
You know what I mean?

1901
01:20:40,410 --> 01:20:42,410
When people are in on the joke, it's really funny.

1902
01:20:42,410 --> 01:20:48,410
But sometimes if they're really like that, you're like, wait a minute.

1903
01:20:48,410 --> 01:20:49,410
I think he's –

1904
01:20:49,410 --> 01:20:51,410
I don't know if they're in on the joke.

1905
01:20:51,410 --> 01:20:53,410
To what extent are they in on the joke?

1906
01:20:53,410 --> 01:20:54,410
I don't know what the joke is.

1907
01:20:54,410 --> 01:20:56,410
Now I'm confused. I don't think I'm in on the joke.

1908
01:20:56,410 --> 01:21:00,410
Is the joke like –

1909
01:21:00,410 --> 01:21:03,410
Bitcoin is the best for a lot of rational reasons.

1910
01:21:03,410 --> 01:21:04,410
Correct.

1911
01:21:04,410 --> 01:21:08,410
Okay, so let's go through – should we go through them?

1912
01:21:08,410 --> 01:21:09,410
Go for it.

1913
01:21:09,410 --> 01:21:11,410
It was first, and it has –

1914
01:21:11,410 --> 01:21:15,410
it was first, thus putting a weird onus,

1915
01:21:15,410 --> 01:21:18,410
like a weird responsibility on all the competitors to say,

1916
01:21:18,410 --> 01:21:20,410
if you deviate from Bitcoin to this, why –

1917
01:21:20,410 --> 01:21:23,410
where do we stop deviating?

1918
01:21:23,410 --> 01:21:24,410
Do we go –

1919
01:21:24,410 --> 01:21:27,410
if you go from Bitcoin to Litecoin, do you go from Litecoin to Federcoin?

1920
01:21:27,410 --> 01:21:30,410
Do you change it every Saturday?

1921
01:21:30,410 --> 01:21:32,410
Do you change it every six months?

1922
01:21:32,410 --> 01:21:39,410
So Bitcoin is first, and that makes a difference because of coordination.

1923
01:21:39,410 --> 01:21:43,410
The blockchain is inherently like this team project.

1924
01:21:43,410 --> 01:21:45,410
You're on the same network as everyone else,

1925
01:21:45,410 --> 01:21:50,410
so you cannot frivolously modify the rules.

1926
01:21:50,410 --> 01:21:53,410
So even if you really think the block size should increase,

1927
01:21:53,410 --> 01:21:57,410
you kind of have to just bite the bullet in the name of loyalty and teamwork.

1928
01:21:57,410 --> 01:22:00,410
I like how when you said bite the bullet, you did this gesture like this.

1929
01:22:00,410 --> 01:22:04,410
I know, yeah, like visibly uncomfortable even talking about this

1930
01:22:04,410 --> 01:22:09,410
because it's such a like loaded issue.

1931
01:22:09,410 --> 01:22:11,410
I think there's something in your brain.

1932
01:22:11,410 --> 01:22:14,410
We still think that there's some merit to people even try big blocks,

1933
01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:16,410
even if they're dumb.

1934
01:22:16,410 --> 01:22:17,410
Yes, there is, right.

1935
01:22:17,410 --> 01:22:18,410
So should we talk about that?

1936
01:22:18,410 --> 01:22:19,410
Go for it.

1937
01:22:19,410 --> 01:22:21,410
Because I think there should be –

1938
01:22:21,410 --> 01:22:24,410
it's healthy to have competition.

1939
01:22:24,410 --> 01:22:27,410
So it's healthy to have –

1940
01:22:27,410 --> 01:22:30,410
it's like you say, like you were saying about Dan,

1941
01:22:30,410 --> 01:22:34,410
you try something and you say, oh, it didn't work, but they gave it a try.

1942
01:22:34,410 --> 01:22:39,410
They gave it a new chain try and lightning and thunder erupted from the skies

1943
01:22:39,410 --> 01:22:44,410
and they did battle and it was fun to watch.

1944
01:22:44,410 --> 01:22:46,410
Well, here's the thing, Paul.

1945
01:22:46,410 --> 01:22:48,410
That's very true in most of the things,

1946
01:22:48,410 --> 01:22:50,410
but what's happening with Bitcoin Cash, for example,

1947
01:22:50,410 --> 01:22:53,410
that's not a fucking good competition.

1948
01:22:53,410 --> 01:22:57,410
That's some retarded kid coming in.

1949
01:22:57,410 --> 01:22:59,410
It's not fun to fight with them anymore.

1950
01:22:59,410 --> 01:23:00,410
It's fucking outrageous.

1951
01:23:00,410 --> 01:23:02,410
It's like you can't take them seriously.

1952
01:23:02,410 --> 01:23:03,410
I agree with that.

1953
01:23:03,410 --> 01:23:04,410
Yeah, I do agree.

1954
01:23:04,410 --> 01:23:09,410
The critique of Bitcoin Cash is not threatening it, not ominous enough.

1955
01:23:09,410 --> 01:23:12,410
But the critique – look, there's a lot of problems.

1956
01:23:12,410 --> 01:23:14,410
I think most people wouldn't agree with that.

1957
01:23:14,410 --> 01:23:16,410
There's block propagation.

1958
01:23:16,410 --> 01:23:19,410
There's a lot of strictly technical issues

1959
01:23:19,410 --> 01:23:21,410
that can be calculated with a formula.

1960
01:23:21,410 --> 01:23:23,410
And after this threshold, we're having issues.

1961
01:23:23,410 --> 01:23:26,410
There's a lot of these things, and you know them probably better than me.

1962
01:23:26,410 --> 01:23:32,410
I do, but I don't think they are insurmountable though.

1963
01:23:32,410 --> 01:23:33,410
I think they are.

1964
01:23:33,410 --> 01:23:34,410
I don't know where –

1965
01:23:34,410 --> 01:23:41,410
Why do you have this pessimism about this that you don't have about other things?

1966
01:23:41,410 --> 01:23:45,410
Because I think from an architectural point of view

1967
01:23:45,410 --> 01:23:49,410
and from the principles that we need to abide by this Bitcoin,

1968
01:23:49,410 --> 01:23:52,410
and for the reasons I am bought into Bitcoin and I am here,

1969
01:23:52,410 --> 01:23:55,410
and I use it and why we're doing this podcast,

1970
01:23:55,410 --> 01:23:58,410
I think if we would have three megabyte blocks –

1971
01:23:58,410 --> 01:24:03,410
sorry, five megabyte blocks, maybe it's not that bad.

1972
01:24:03,410 --> 01:24:04,410
I don't think –

1973
01:24:04,410 --> 01:24:06,410
Yeah, but I don't think anyone is even disputing it.

1974
01:24:06,410 --> 01:24:09,410
It's like big versus small, the way I see it.

1975
01:24:09,410 --> 01:24:12,410
Yeah, and I think as you go again –

1976
01:24:12,410 --> 01:24:14,410
Like gigabyte, one gigabyte.

1977
01:24:14,410 --> 01:24:17,410
Yeah, see, when you say that, I'm just like you lost me.

1978
01:24:17,410 --> 01:24:20,410
There's nothing. We can talk about it there.

1979
01:24:20,410 --> 01:24:26,410
Well, see, first of all, obviously like my published official position

1980
01:24:26,410 --> 01:24:28,410
or whatever you want to call it,

1981
01:24:28,410 --> 01:24:31,410
is the layer one blocks should be much smaller than they are,

1982
01:24:31,410 --> 01:24:34,410
and we should have a large block sidechain.

1983
01:24:34,410 --> 01:24:35,410
So that's my position.

1984
01:24:35,410 --> 01:24:37,410
I don't want anyone to think like I'm not really like –

1985
01:24:37,410 --> 01:24:42,410
especially for layer one, I'm not like a layer one big blocker person at all.

1986
01:24:42,410 --> 01:24:45,410
I never thought of that. I never got any push just to make it clear.

1987
01:24:45,410 --> 01:24:47,410
I know, but you know how it is.

1988
01:24:47,410 --> 01:24:48,410
Yeah, everyone else thinks that.

1989
01:24:48,410 --> 01:24:52,410
You know how it's going to go.

1990
01:24:52,410 --> 01:25:00,410
But the idea – some people have this view that the gigabyte block network

1991
01:25:00,410 --> 01:25:04,410
just can't work as a matter of – like it's a law of physics.

1992
01:25:04,410 --> 01:25:08,410
And I just think that's – that seems kind of crazy to me

1993
01:25:08,410 --> 01:25:10,410
because think about it.

1994
01:25:10,410 --> 01:25:15,410
There's – a lot of places in the world have fast internet.

1995
01:25:15,410 --> 01:25:20,410
So it's not really – it's not necessarily hardware.

1996
01:25:20,410 --> 01:25:22,410
People could build hardware.

1997
01:25:22,410 --> 01:25:27,410
They could build like a card that just specializes in doing whatever,

1998
01:25:27,410 --> 01:25:30,410
Merkle trees, digital signature checking or something.

1999
01:25:30,410 --> 01:25:35,410
It's a hardware card that could improve it by a factor of hundred –

2000
01:25:36,410 --> 01:25:38,410
five or six or seven orders of magnitude.

2001
01:25:38,410 --> 01:25:39,410
You just lost.

2002
01:25:39,410 --> 01:25:40,410
And you have like a GPU or something.

2003
01:25:40,410 --> 01:25:44,410
You just lost at this argument though because that specialization,

2004
01:25:44,410 --> 01:25:46,410
that direction requires some additional cost somewhere.

2005
01:25:46,410 --> 01:25:50,410
And it's not the same as being able to like run your node and all these things.

2006
01:25:50,410 --> 01:25:53,410
No, but it's possible that – just possible.

2007
01:25:53,410 --> 01:25:54,410
Go on.

2008
01:25:54,410 --> 01:25:55,410
I'm just saying.

2009
01:25:55,410 --> 01:25:59,410
The card could be mass produced or could be produced in a way that it has

2010
01:25:59,410 --> 01:26:01,410
like some pretext, some other purpose.

2011
01:26:01,410 --> 01:26:05,410
And then it would be – you can't manufacture your own laptop computer

2012
01:26:05,410 --> 01:26:10,410
using just the materials you have like in a normal apartment building.

2013
01:26:10,410 --> 01:26:12,410
You have to buy that.

2014
01:26:12,410 --> 01:26:15,410
It's the same as making a burger from scratch in the onions.

2015
01:26:15,410 --> 01:26:17,410
You can't make a burger from scratch, right.

2016
01:26:17,410 --> 01:26:18,410
Exactly, right.

2017
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:22,410
So all it needs to be is it needs to just be –

2018
01:26:22,410 --> 01:26:25,410
we just need to live in a world where you could get that card.

2019
01:26:25,410 --> 01:26:27,410
That solves most of the problems.

2020
01:26:27,410 --> 01:26:29,410
And you just need to be able to get it from somewhere.

2021
01:26:29,410 --> 01:26:31,410
I agree that that has its own drawbacks,

2022
01:26:31,410 --> 01:26:33,410
but this is very different from the world where people just say that

2023
01:26:33,410 --> 01:26:35,410
that can never work ever.

2024
01:26:35,410 --> 01:26:39,410
I think that is the Bitcoin – that is like the cult talking.

2025
01:26:39,410 --> 01:26:43,410
That is just like people just saying that it's contaminant.

2026
01:26:43,410 --> 01:26:45,410
I don't think so.

2027
01:26:45,410 --> 01:26:48,410
Okay, let's get back to this hypothetical.

2028
01:26:48,410 --> 01:26:51,410
Let's just say there's this magic machine, which is – this is like kind of –

2029
01:26:51,410 --> 01:26:55,410
I feel like what you're saying is kind of like if we have a time machine.

2030
01:26:55,410 --> 01:26:57,410
No, you know perfectly well the card –

2031
01:26:57,410 --> 01:26:59,410
it's only the bandwidth that you can't –

2032
01:26:59,410 --> 01:27:02,410
It's more feasible than a time machine.

2033
01:27:02,410 --> 01:27:03,410
But a lot of places have bandwidth.

2034
01:27:03,410 --> 01:27:06,410
It could be like compression algorithms or something that –

2035
01:27:06,410 --> 01:27:10,410
I mean a lot of that data is random hashes that can't be compressed.

2036
01:27:10,410 --> 01:27:11,410
But you never know.

2037
01:27:11,410 --> 01:27:14,410
Like the way it propagates – we have –

2038
01:27:14,410 --> 01:27:18,410
I never thought spy mining and SPV mining,

2039
01:27:18,410 --> 01:27:22,410
that effectively to the miners propagates the block like sort of instantly

2040
01:27:22,410 --> 01:27:24,410
with no real incentive problems.

2041
01:27:25,410 --> 01:27:27,410
It's bad incentive benefits.

2042
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:33,410
So you are trying to say that there's a lot of smart –

2043
01:27:33,410 --> 01:27:38,410
so let's say you have this computer that could do these things,

2044
01:27:38,410 --> 01:27:41,410
and you're trying to say that actually we have technologic –

2045
01:27:41,410 --> 01:27:44,410
we got to the point where software got really smart,

2046
01:27:44,410 --> 01:27:46,410
hardware got really good,

2047
01:27:46,410 --> 01:27:48,410
and you're trying to say this is more feasible than people think.

2048
01:27:48,410 --> 01:27:52,410
I think that's – yeah, I think that was already very close though.

2049
01:27:52,410 --> 01:27:53,410
Okay.

2050
01:27:53,410 --> 01:27:55,410
So yeah, but now the problem is like –

2051
01:27:55,410 --> 01:27:57,410
There's already that guy Andrew Stone already did like something

2052
01:27:57,410 --> 01:28:00,410
worth a gigabyte block like testnet or something.

2053
01:28:00,410 --> 01:28:02,410
I don't know how reliable that is at all.

2054
01:28:02,410 --> 01:28:03,410
Okay.

2055
01:28:03,410 --> 01:28:05,410
Look, I don't know what the fuck that guy is.

2056
01:28:05,410 --> 01:28:06,410
I don't have time for shit like that.

2057
01:28:06,410 --> 01:28:09,410
But the point is that it's like I don't watch Special Olympics,

2058
01:28:09,410 --> 01:28:10,410
so I'm not going to watch that.

2059
01:28:10,410 --> 01:28:13,410
Anyway, so the point is –

2060
01:28:13,410 --> 01:28:14,410
I'm sorry.

2061
01:28:14,410 --> 01:28:17,410
That can't go in the show I think.

2062
01:28:17,410 --> 01:28:18,410
So the point is that –

2063
01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:21,410
You just bleep it all out and everyone will just be wondering what did he say.

2064
01:28:22,410 --> 01:28:28,410
So the point is that –

2065
01:28:28,410 --> 01:28:30,410
so let's say you can even make this machine is not as hard.

2066
01:28:30,410 --> 01:28:33,410
It's hard to implement it and put it around and get it in the hands of people.

2067
01:28:33,410 --> 01:28:35,410
There's too many ifs, Paul.

2068
01:28:35,410 --> 01:28:37,410
There's too many ifs.

2069
01:28:37,410 --> 01:28:38,410
It's too many ifs.

2070
01:28:38,410 --> 01:28:39,410
No, but that's what I'm saying.

2071
01:28:39,410 --> 01:28:40,410
It's just a few ifs though.

2072
01:28:40,410 --> 01:28:41,410
That's what I'm saying.

2073
01:28:41,410 --> 01:28:43,410
It's actually not that many ifs.

2074
01:28:43,410 --> 01:28:44,410
I think they're huge.

2075
01:28:44,410 --> 01:28:45,410
Well, anyway, I don't know.

2076
01:28:45,410 --> 01:28:46,410
I don't know.

2077
01:28:46,410 --> 01:28:49,410
Like we got to the point of this conversation where we need to measure it somehow.

2078
01:28:49,410 --> 01:28:50,410
Let's measure it then.

2079
01:28:50,410 --> 01:28:51,410
Let's take a bet on it and measure it.

2080
01:28:51,410 --> 01:28:54,410
Yeah, but you know that –

2081
01:28:54,410 --> 01:28:56,410
well, one part of the measurement is quite easy.

2082
01:28:56,410 --> 01:28:58,410
I mean it's –

2083
01:28:58,410 --> 01:29:02,410
okay, I actually have some measurements, but they're on a different computer.

2084
01:29:02,410 --> 01:29:05,410
But you can look at –

2085
01:29:05,410 --> 01:29:08,410
what you can do is you can look at –

2086
01:29:08,410 --> 01:29:10,410
there's a couple of different things you can look at,

2087
01:29:10,410 --> 01:29:13,410
but one of them is that Jameson Lopp used –

2088
01:29:13,410 --> 01:29:19,410
he got like a big computer and used it to see how quickly he could validate

2089
01:29:19,410 --> 01:29:23,410
Bitcoin Core under a couple of different –

2090
01:29:23,410 --> 01:29:25,410
I shared that tweet in that episode.

2091
01:29:25,410 --> 01:29:26,410
Did you see that?

2092
01:29:26,410 --> 01:29:27,410
I remember.

2093
01:29:27,410 --> 01:29:28,410
I shared it.

2094
01:29:28,410 --> 01:29:29,410
What do you mean?

2095
01:29:29,410 --> 01:29:30,410
I fucking put it in the notes.

2096
01:29:30,410 --> 01:29:31,410
I remember it, yeah.

2097
01:29:31,410 --> 01:29:32,410
Well, I thought it was a long time ago.

2098
01:29:32,410 --> 01:29:33,410
But it was like –

2099
01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:34,410
it scans through the whole blockchain,

2100
01:29:34,410 --> 01:29:39,410
so you can just see this is how many gigabytes of data it had to process,

2101
01:29:39,410 --> 01:29:42,410
and then you can just multiply or whatever.

2102
01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:48,410
Paul, I mean I'm sure there's some things that make this visible.

2103
01:29:48,410 --> 01:29:52,410
So I'm just saying today with like $6,000, it's feasible if you –

2104
01:29:52,410 --> 01:29:53,410
it depends.

2105
01:29:53,410 --> 01:29:54,410
You need to make sure that you have –

2106
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:57,410
But do you understand that I could use a Raspberry Pi 4 right now

2107
01:29:57,410 --> 01:29:58,410
to do what I'm doing right now?

2108
01:29:58,410 --> 01:30:00,410
Do you understand the difference in this?

2109
01:30:00,410 --> 01:30:01,410
Absolutely.

2110
01:30:01,410 --> 01:30:02,410
Do you think how hard –

2111
01:30:02,410 --> 01:30:09,410
like that's a general purpose computer that could be used very easy and performs
well.

2112
01:30:09,410 --> 01:30:11,410
Yeah, but the $6,000 thing was also a general purpose computer,

2113
01:30:11,410 --> 01:30:14,410
and I'm not saying –

2114
01:30:14,410 --> 01:30:15,410
the important thing –

2115
01:30:16,410 --> 01:30:20,410
I even tweeted something this week about –

2116
01:30:20,410 --> 01:30:24,410
it's important to be able to hide the physical location of the nodes

2117
01:30:24,410 --> 01:30:28,410
because we have people coming after the self-hosted wallets and whatever.

2118
01:30:28,410 --> 01:30:31,410
So it's going to be important for people to be able to run the node.

2119
01:30:31,410 --> 01:30:33,410
It should be cheap to run a node.

2120
01:30:33,410 --> 01:30:34,410
I agree with all that.

2121
01:30:34,410 --> 01:30:36,410
I'm just saying that it's not like this –

2122
01:30:36,410 --> 01:30:38,410
people are talking about it's an impossible thing.

2123
01:30:38,410 --> 01:30:42,410
It's just the difference between $6,000 and $50.

2124
01:30:42,410 --> 01:30:44,410
Right, and this is the same as Ethereum.

2125
01:30:44,410 --> 01:30:45,410
Ethereum is like –

2126
01:30:45,410 --> 01:30:48,410
it's not impossible to have a Turing complete whatever,

2127
01:30:48,410 --> 01:30:49,410
but when you put it –

2128
01:30:49,410 --> 01:30:51,410
and you could probably make it run,

2129
01:30:51,410 --> 01:30:53,410
but it's got to be a shit.

2130
01:30:53,410 --> 01:30:54,410
So that's the same thing.

2131
01:30:54,410 --> 01:30:56,410
You could probably do that,

2132
01:30:56,410 --> 01:30:57,410
but it's –

2133
01:30:57,410 --> 01:31:00,410
it runs just like the fact that it's running on something,

2134
01:31:00,410 --> 01:31:06,410
but it's not working properly by no means.

2135
01:31:06,410 --> 01:31:07,410
I don't know.

2136
01:31:07,410 --> 01:31:08,410
I don't –

2137
01:31:08,410 --> 01:31:09,410
it seems like a big –

2138
01:31:09,410 --> 01:31:10,410
it's very dismissive.

2139
01:31:10,410 --> 01:31:11,410
Yes, it is because it's stupid.

2140
01:31:11,410 --> 01:31:12,410
Why do you have this sweet spot for this thing?

2141
01:31:12,410 --> 01:31:14,410
You have a sweet spot for these things.

2142
01:31:14,410 --> 01:31:15,410
Why?

2143
01:31:15,410 --> 01:31:16,410
I want to understand why.

2144
01:31:16,410 --> 01:31:18,410
Well, I think it's about creativity.

2145
01:31:18,410 --> 01:31:19,410
It's like what you were saying.

2146
01:31:19,410 --> 01:31:20,410
You should try –

2147
01:31:20,410 --> 01:31:21,410
it's like trial and error.

2148
01:31:21,410 --> 01:31:22,410
People should try it,

2149
01:31:22,410 --> 01:31:23,410
and then –

2150
01:31:23,410 --> 01:31:27,410
one of the things about the main drawbacks

2151
01:31:27,410 --> 01:31:33,410
to having a heavy block,

2152
01:31:33,410 --> 01:31:35,410
large blocks,

2153
01:31:35,410 --> 01:31:38,410
the main drawback is just that it makes it difficult to –

2154
01:31:38,410 --> 01:31:41,410
it's not even that difficult to start up the node.

2155
01:31:41,410 --> 01:31:44,410
It's just difficult to hide the fact that you own a node

2156
01:31:44,410 --> 01:31:48,410
because there's this big bandwidth pulses across the internet.

2157
01:31:48,410 --> 01:31:52,410
Isn't it a problem also with verifying the blockchain?

2158
01:31:52,410 --> 01:31:54,410
I don't actually think that's –

2159
01:31:54,410 --> 01:31:55,410
with a nice computer,

2160
01:31:55,410 --> 01:31:56,410
that is not –

2161
01:31:56,410 --> 01:31:57,410
I don't think that's a problem at all.

2162
01:31:57,410 --> 01:32:03,410
The other thing is that you can tweak the settings if you like.

2163
01:32:03,410 --> 01:32:05,410
Like already there's this thing, assume valid.

2164
01:32:05,410 --> 01:32:07,410
Are you familiar with this?

2165
01:32:07,410 --> 01:32:09,410
It doesn't even check signatures for like –

2166
01:32:10,410 --> 01:32:12,410
because the blockchain is many years long at this point.

2167
01:32:12,410 --> 01:32:14,410
It just goes back like 18 months.

2168
01:32:14,410 --> 01:32:16,410
Before that, it doesn't even check the signatures,

2169
01:32:16,410 --> 01:32:21,410
which is the most expensive part of checking the blockchain.

2170
01:32:21,410 --> 01:32:22,410
It doesn't even check them at all

2171
01:32:22,410 --> 01:32:27,410
because how could it possibly be that we would be 18 months

2172
01:32:27,410 --> 01:32:29,410
and no one would have noticed?

2173
01:32:29,410 --> 01:32:31,410
You see, that's kind of the point.

2174
01:32:31,410 --> 01:32:33,410
The large blockers say something like that as well.

2175
01:32:33,410 --> 01:32:35,410
They say, well, you know,

2176
01:32:35,410 --> 01:32:37,410
someone will notice if it's wrong,

2177
01:32:37,410 --> 01:32:40,410
and then the blockchain will roll back to that point

2178
01:32:40,410 --> 01:32:42,410
and then proceed again.

2179
01:32:42,410 --> 01:32:43,410
So there's actually no –

2180
01:32:43,410 --> 01:32:46,410
it's kind of hard to make it so that the blockchain contains errors,

2181
01:32:46,410 --> 01:32:48,410
and that's the whole point of SPV mode,

2182
01:32:48,410 --> 01:32:50,410
which is also how sidechain works.

2183
01:32:50,410 --> 01:32:56,410
It's how every sidechain thing sort of must work.

2184
01:32:56,410 --> 01:33:01,410
But the main drawback of large block is it's hard to hide the fact –

2185
01:33:01,410 --> 01:33:02,410
it's hard to hide your node.

2186
01:33:02,410 --> 01:33:03,410
It's hard to like –

2187
01:33:03,410 --> 01:33:08,410
to go on Amazon Web Services and run the node.

2188
01:33:08,410 --> 01:33:10,410
During the time of oppression,

2189
01:33:10,410 --> 01:33:13,410
when the state is coming for you or whatever,

2190
01:33:13,410 --> 01:33:15,410
this is like now difficult for you.

2191
01:33:15,410 --> 01:33:20,410
You're very reliant on your node, but it will be difficult.

2192
01:33:20,410 --> 01:33:22,410
It's like you say, right?

2193
01:33:22,410 --> 01:33:25,410
Someone builds a car, builds a pickup truck,

2194
01:33:25,410 --> 01:33:26,410
and then Ethereum is building like –

2195
01:33:26,410 --> 01:33:31,410
it's like half submarine, half whatever, like confabulation.

2196
01:33:31,410 --> 01:33:39,410
So – and it's like the size of a Zeppelin blimp or something.

2197
01:33:39,410 --> 01:33:45,410
And so that's the main drawback,

2198
01:33:45,410 --> 01:33:48,410
and I think a lot of people are willing to –

2199
01:33:48,410 --> 01:33:51,410
they say that they're willing to take that risk,

2200
01:33:51,410 --> 01:33:55,410
and I think we should take them at their word and just let them do it.

2201
01:33:55,410 --> 01:33:56,410
I agree with you.

2202
01:33:56,410 --> 01:33:57,410
It's tyranny to prevent them.

2203
01:33:57,410 --> 01:33:58,410
Yeah, look.

2204
01:33:58,410 --> 01:34:00,410
I think if people should try things, they should try things.

2205
01:34:00,410 --> 01:34:02,410
But look, you could also go on and tell me right now,

2206
01:34:02,410 --> 01:34:04,410
I want to set myself on fire to see what happens,

2207
01:34:04,410 --> 01:34:05,410
and I'm going to be like –

2208
01:34:05,410 --> 01:34:06,410
See, that's what I'm talking about.

2209
01:34:06,410 --> 01:34:07,410
You really think it's like that?

2210
01:34:07,410 --> 01:34:10,410
Yeah, that's why I'm telling you.

2211
01:34:10,410 --> 01:34:12,410
I also think – I don't know if I'm going to say it.

2212
01:34:12,410 --> 01:34:14,410
I think it's a mistake.

2213
01:34:14,410 --> 01:34:17,410
But I don't think it's setting yourself on fire.

2214
01:34:17,410 --> 01:34:21,410
I think that's just like – that's a very extreme thing to say.

2215
01:34:21,410 --> 01:34:23,410
Look, man.

2216
01:34:23,410 --> 01:34:25,410
If you want to do that, go do that.

2217
01:34:25,410 --> 01:34:27,410
Again, I just think it's very stupid,

2218
01:34:27,410 --> 01:34:28,410
and I don't think there's anything –

2219
01:34:28,410 --> 01:34:30,410
Well, again, the point of sidechains is that people should be able to

2220
01:34:30,410 --> 01:34:32,410
try their own different things.

2221
01:34:32,410 --> 01:34:33,410
You know what?

2222
01:34:33,410 --> 01:34:36,410
I think the only reason you want this – I'm going all in here,

2223
01:34:36,410 --> 01:34:39,410
but the only reason I want this is because this would be the only –

2224
01:34:39,410 --> 01:34:43,410
these are probably the only people who don't think Drivechains are bad

2225
01:34:43,410 --> 01:34:49,410
or something because it would make it somehow feasible for them to do it.

2226
01:34:49,410 --> 01:34:51,410
I think there is a – well, wait.

2227
01:34:51,410 --> 01:34:53,410
I didn't understand the last part of what you said.

2228
01:34:53,410 --> 01:34:55,410
I'm trying to say these are the only people who like your project,

2229
01:34:55,410 --> 01:34:58,410
and that's why you want this because they would be the only people who –

2230
01:34:58,410 --> 01:35:00,410
Because they like SPD mode or something?

2231
01:35:00,410 --> 01:35:03,410
No, they're the only people who could see uses for drivechains.

2232
01:35:03,410 --> 01:35:04,410
That's why.

2233
01:35:04,410 --> 01:35:05,410
Oh, okay.

2234
01:35:05,410 --> 01:35:06,410
And other people don't see them.

2235
01:35:06,410 --> 01:35:07,410
I see.

2236
01:35:07,410 --> 01:35:08,410
So that's why you kind of like –

2237
01:35:08,410 --> 01:35:09,410
Yeah, well, I definitely –

2238
01:35:09,410 --> 01:35:10,410
Which is not bad.

2239
01:35:10,410 --> 01:35:11,410
Okay.

2240
01:35:11,410 --> 01:35:13,410
Yeah, so it's definitely true that there's some –

2241
01:35:13,410 --> 01:35:15,410
the people who just think that Bitcoin doesn't need to do anything

2242
01:35:15,410 --> 01:35:17,410
and it's perfect the way it is,

2243
01:35:17,410 --> 01:35:23,410
those people are natural enemies of like the sidechains project.

2244
01:35:23,410 --> 01:35:25,410
There are a lot of Bitcoin maximalists, right?

2245
01:35:25,410 --> 01:35:28,410
Some Bitcoin maximalists say if something is a good idea, we'll do it on Bitcoin.

2246
01:35:28,410 --> 01:35:32,410
And some people are, well, Bitcoin will have sidechains,

2247
01:35:32,410 --> 01:35:35,410
so Bitcoin will eventually absorb everything that's good.

2248
01:35:35,410 --> 01:35:41,410
So those people are natural allies of Drivechain or whatever.

2249
01:35:41,410 --> 01:35:43,410
But then there are other people who just say –

2250
01:35:43,410 --> 01:35:47,410
these are people like – I guess you would say like the hardcore sound money people

2251
01:35:47,410 --> 01:35:53,410
who just think that Bitcoin's uselessness is like its best feature.

2252
01:35:53,410 --> 01:35:57,410
So this would probably be like SafeDean and some other people over in that category.

2253
01:35:57,410 --> 01:35:58,410
He's an idiot.

2254
01:35:58,410 --> 01:36:01,410
Shout out to Shif at SafeDean.

2255
01:36:01,410 --> 01:36:02,410
You have his book.

2256
01:36:02,410 --> 01:36:03,410
I do.

2257
01:36:03,410 --> 01:36:04,410
I met him, man.

2258
01:36:04,410 --> 01:36:05,410
Look, I talked with him a few times.

2259
01:36:05,410 --> 01:36:06,410
He's a really cool guy.

2260
01:36:06,410 --> 01:36:07,410
He's really smart.

2261
01:36:07,410 --> 01:36:08,410
Sorry, carry on your point.

2262
01:36:08,410 --> 01:36:09,410
Forget about it.

2263
01:36:09,410 --> 01:36:10,410
I've also seen him from far away.

2264
01:36:10,410 --> 01:36:11,410
Maybe he doesn't know this,

2265
01:36:11,410 --> 01:36:16,410
but I saw him from far away at the social roundtable for something.

2266
01:36:16,410 --> 01:36:18,410
Anyway, your point.

2267
01:36:18,410 --> 01:36:21,410
The point is those people are natural enemies of Bitcoin.

2268
01:36:21,410 --> 01:36:24,410
The people who just think that we don't need to change anything about Bitcoin.

2269
01:36:24,410 --> 01:36:28,410
Bitcoin's success is inevitable, as is pristine Bitcoin.

2270
01:36:28,410 --> 01:36:33,410
Those people are obviously not natural friends of sidechains,

2271
01:36:33,410 --> 01:36:36,410
even though they should be because one of the features of sidechains

2272
01:36:36,410 --> 01:36:40,410
is it lets people do these experiments away from layer one,

2273
01:36:40,410 --> 01:36:42,410
which they don't want changed.

2274
01:36:42,410 --> 01:36:43,410
So they should be.

2275
01:36:43,410 --> 01:36:45,410
But just right now, culturally, those people –

2276
01:36:45,410 --> 01:36:49,410
because those people have to say over and over again,

2277
01:36:49,410 --> 01:36:52,410
Bitcoin is perfect, everything is shitcoin, whatever.

2278
01:36:52,410 --> 01:36:57,410
I don't think there's a single person that has any distant scientific background

2279
01:36:57,410 --> 01:37:00,410
or understanding and has that position so hard

2280
01:37:00,410 --> 01:37:02,410
that they think that Bitcoin is perfect or whatever.

2281
01:37:02,410 --> 01:37:04,410
I don't know anyone like that.

2282
01:37:04,410 --> 01:37:05,410
Yeah.

2283
01:37:05,410 --> 01:37:06,410
Well, I hope you're right.

2284
01:37:06,410 --> 01:37:07,410
But you know what I'm saying.

2285
01:37:07,410 --> 01:37:09,410
A lot of people, they say that.

2286
01:37:09,410 --> 01:37:12,410
That is a meme that has infected Twitter.

2287
01:37:13,410 --> 01:37:15,410
Yeah, but again, it's just like all these fucking people.

2288
01:37:15,410 --> 01:37:16,410
So that's difficult.

2289
01:37:16,410 --> 01:37:18,410
So those people find it difficult because then I say,

2290
01:37:18,410 --> 01:37:20,410
well, here's this project Drivechain that lets you –

2291
01:37:20,410 --> 01:37:22,410
you can have whatever.

2292
01:37:22,410 --> 01:37:23,410
You can have Ethereum on Bitcoin.

2293
01:37:23,410 --> 01:37:25,410
And people are like, why do you do that?

2294
01:37:25,410 --> 01:37:28,410
But the problem is that your pitches, it's like –

2295
01:37:28,410 --> 01:37:29,410
Yeah.

2296
01:37:29,410 --> 01:37:30,410
But then if I say, look, you can do Hivemind,

2297
01:37:30,410 --> 01:37:32,410
you can do these decentralized prediction markets,

2298
01:37:32,410 --> 01:37:33,410
you can do these event derivatives,

2299
01:37:33,410 --> 01:37:36,410
then people say, well, that's not already in Bitcoin,

2300
01:37:36,410 --> 01:37:38,410
so it must not be good.

2301
01:37:38,410 --> 01:37:39,410
No, no.

2302
01:37:39,410 --> 01:37:41,410
Here's how I assess the situation.

2303
01:37:41,410 --> 01:37:44,410
You build this car, which is better for –

2304
01:37:44,410 --> 01:37:46,410
this car that could transport things,

2305
01:37:46,410 --> 01:37:50,410
and it's better somehow in some reasons.

2306
01:37:50,410 --> 01:37:52,410
And you go, by the way, you can carry –

2307
01:37:52,410 --> 01:37:55,410
you know the doms that come from the sewers of the hospitals?

2308
01:37:55,410 --> 01:37:57,410
You can do this and you can make things better.

2309
01:37:57,410 --> 01:37:58,410
Yes.

2310
01:37:58,410 --> 01:37:59,410
And people are like, why would you do that?

2311
01:37:59,410 --> 01:38:00,410
You're talking shit.

2312
01:38:00,410 --> 01:38:02,410
And then I would come on and be like, by the way, guys,

2313
01:38:02,410 --> 01:38:04,410
we're going to fool this few fucking women.

2314
01:38:04,410 --> 01:38:05,410
They're going to have street polls here.

2315
01:38:05,410 --> 01:38:06,410
They're going to suck each other out.

2316
01:38:06,410 --> 01:38:07,410
They're going to –

2317
01:38:07,410 --> 01:38:09,410
and they're like, yeah, that's the greatest thing in the world.

2318
01:38:09,410 --> 01:38:10,410
That's the problem.

2319
01:38:10,410 --> 01:38:11,410
What do you think that would be?

2320
01:38:11,410 --> 01:38:13,410
Like I said, the Zcash sidechain or what?

2321
01:38:13,410 --> 01:38:14,410
What is the thing that people actually like?

2322
01:38:14,410 --> 01:38:15,410
No, no, no, man.

2323
01:38:15,410 --> 01:38:16,410
It's simple, man.

2324
01:38:16,410 --> 01:38:18,410
Everyone wants to make money, dude.

2325
01:38:18,410 --> 01:38:19,410
That's what you have to do with these things.

2326
01:38:19,410 --> 01:38:21,410
You have to find a way that makes money for them.

2327
01:38:21,410 --> 01:38:23,410
Yeah, but most of the ways of making money are horrible,

2328
01:38:23,410 --> 01:38:26,410
like starting your own coin and whatever ICO crap.

2329
01:38:26,410 --> 01:38:27,410
No, no.

2330
01:38:27,410 --> 01:38:28,410
See, this is the thing, Paul.

2331
01:38:28,410 --> 01:38:29,410
You can't think like that.

2332
01:38:29,410 --> 01:38:30,410
You only think –

2333
01:38:30,410 --> 01:38:32,410
that's the only way that you saw how to make money,

2334
01:38:32,410 --> 01:38:33,410
but there's so multiple ways.

2335
01:38:33,410 --> 01:38:35,410
And again, you have to invent –

2336
01:38:35,410 --> 01:38:36,410
Lay it down.

2337
01:38:36,410 --> 01:38:37,410
Well, I don't know.

2338
01:38:37,410 --> 01:38:38,410
I didn't spend that much time on it.

2339
01:38:38,410 --> 01:38:41,410
I thought the interesting part would have been with –

2340
01:38:41,410 --> 01:38:44,410
which kind of is, but it's just saying –

2341
01:38:44,410 --> 01:38:47,410
I thought, again, the Hivemind thing was the most interesting,

2342
01:38:47,410 --> 01:38:48,410
and I think you were wrong.

2343
01:38:48,410 --> 01:38:49,410
A lot of people like it.

2344
01:38:49,410 --> 01:38:53,410
Yeah, but I think you were wrong to try to put forward the

2345
01:38:53,410 --> 01:38:56,410
let's elect the president and whatever.

2346
01:38:56,410 --> 01:39:00,410
You have to find something like sports gambling or something like that.

2347
01:39:00,410 --> 01:39:03,410
If I would be in your shoes right now with a Hivemind project,

2348
01:39:03,410 --> 01:39:05,410
but that needs sidechains to implement it how you want it to do it.

2349
01:39:05,410 --> 01:39:08,410
But I would just go to like the biggest fucking sports guy.

2350
01:39:08,410 --> 01:39:09,410
I wouldn't go to –

2351
01:39:09,410 --> 01:39:12,410
I go to some sport things who are small enough,

2352
01:39:12,410 --> 01:39:16,410
and it's rowdy enough and crazy enough and gambling enough and whatever,

2353
01:39:16,410 --> 01:39:18,410
or some kind of things like this,

2354
01:39:18,410 --> 01:39:23,410
and I would try to get them to form a prediction market for them.

2355
01:39:23,410 --> 01:39:25,410
And something that people could watch, mud fighting.

2356
01:39:25,410 --> 01:39:26,410
I don't know.

2357
01:39:26,410 --> 01:39:27,410
Something like that.

2358
01:39:27,410 --> 01:39:28,410
It has to be something like that.

2359
01:39:28,410 --> 01:39:29,410
And you also could get those ones,

2360
01:39:29,410 --> 01:39:30,410
and that's when you're going to get people.

2361
01:39:30,410 --> 01:39:32,410
And again, small prediction markets, that would be incredible.

2362
01:39:32,410 --> 01:39:33,410
That's how I would think about it.

2363
01:39:33,410 --> 01:39:34,410
Well, there is –

2364
01:39:34,410 --> 01:39:38,410
no, actually a lot of people who do prediction markets end up going that route,

2365
01:39:38,410 --> 01:39:39,410
but I actually have a different way.

2366
01:39:39,410 --> 01:39:41,410
But that's with prediction markets specifically.

2367
01:39:41,410 --> 01:39:46,410
I don't know if that helps me with the Drivechain angle.

2368
01:39:46,410 --> 01:39:47,410
I don't know about the Drivechain.

2369
01:39:47,410 --> 01:39:50,410
You think it does, or I just say like –

2370
01:39:50,410 --> 01:39:54,410
I told you, Drivechain is an engineering product.

2371
01:39:54,410 --> 01:39:56,410
I don't know much about engineering.

2372
01:39:56,410 --> 01:40:01,410
Hivemind, it's, again, it's just a natural –

2373
01:40:01,410 --> 01:40:01,828
it's just a natural response.

2374
01:40:01,828 --> 01:40:05,828
Again, it's just a natural – yeah, but no, but it's a natural occurring direction
for what Bitcoin –

2375
01:40:05,828 --> 01:40:13,828
Yeah, I agree with you, right, that it's more of – it's like more of what you got
with Bitcoin, you're now getting more of that.

2376
01:40:13,828 --> 01:40:15,828
Yeah, so when you talk about like –

2377
01:40:15,828 --> 01:40:16,828
More Bitcoin-like.

2378
01:40:16,828 --> 01:40:23,828
Drivechain is a program you need to write, which I don't know what to tell you more
about that. It's a program, which that's what it is.

2379
01:40:23,828 --> 01:40:29,828
You need to make an XA that people will run at the end of the day. But Hivemind is
not just that. It's more into it than that.

2380
01:40:29,828 --> 01:40:36,828
So I don't know how you do that. I don't know. Again, you talk a lot of shit about
Blockstream, but they were like, okay, we need a narrative.

2381
01:40:36,828 --> 01:40:42,828
We need to find this into a product. Well, what do people do? Here's exchanges.
Okay, how can we fit this into this?

2382
01:40:42,828 --> 01:40:46,828
Well, what's the problem with exchanges? This. Is it that bad? No, but it's a
problem.

2383
01:40:46,828 --> 01:40:51,828
It's a problem. Okay, we make this, we make it for them. We make some trade-offs, we
put it out, we get a designer.

2384
01:40:51,828 --> 01:40:56,828
They got a fucking Chinese girl designer, whatever. And she made it shiny, she made
it nice.

2385
01:40:56,828 --> 01:40:59,828
It's a very damn hell of a story.

2386
01:40:59,828 --> 01:41:01,828
What do you want?

2387
01:41:01,828 --> 01:41:07,828
I don't know. Like what I would like is – well, I've said this story many times.

2388
01:41:07,828 --> 01:41:11,828
The original sidechain concept was a solution to a problem.

2389
01:41:11,828 --> 01:41:18,828
See, that's the other thing. This is all related to this bigger point we were making
before about why is this a sweet spot for me or something.

2390
01:41:18,828 --> 01:41:24,828
I like it when people disagree. I like it there to be a way for everyone to get what
they want.

2391
01:41:24,828 --> 01:41:31,828
And I don't see why this isn't that. Everyone could get what they want just with
this.

2392
01:41:31,828 --> 01:41:33,828
Because that's a –

2393
01:41:33,828 --> 01:41:37,828
The small block people can get the small blocks. The large block people can get the
large blocks.

2394
01:41:37,828 --> 01:41:42,828
There's no reason. And it drives, though. It drives a lot of problems for Bitcoin.

2395
01:41:42,828 --> 01:41:53,828
So I think the lack of unity is the big thing preventing Bitcoin from – you want to
talk about making money from like really taking off.

2396
01:41:53,828 --> 01:41:58,828
Now there's all these cryptocurrencies. It's confusing for the layperson has no
idea.

2397
01:41:58,828 --> 01:42:01,828
They all look the same to the layperson has no idea what's going on.

2398
01:42:01,828 --> 01:42:07,828
They think like a nano is just the same as Litecoin, which is just the same as
Ethereum, which is just the same as Bitcoin.

2399
01:42:07,828 --> 01:42:13,828
They have no idea what's going on. And you have to have these people hating.

2400
01:42:13,828 --> 01:42:20,828
Imagine if Ethereum just at the time had been different and everything was different
and Ethereum was a Bitcoin sidechain.

2401
01:42:20,828 --> 01:42:27,828
All the people online, the Bitcoiners, the Matt O'Dell's and Dan Harold's, they
would be talking about how smart –

2402
01:42:27,828 --> 01:42:31,828
they'd be like, look at this guy Vitalik. He's really smart. He has this weird
project, Ethereum.

2403
01:42:31,828 --> 01:42:37,828
But he's a Bitcoiner. He should want to join like us and join our smart gang.

2404
01:42:37,828 --> 01:42:39,828
And we're going to take over the world. We're going to be like Rome.

2405
01:42:39,828 --> 01:42:45,828
We're going to fuck up Europe and Northern Africa and everything. And it's all going
to – all roads lead to Rome.

2406
01:42:45,828 --> 01:42:48,828
Yeah, I don't know.

2407
01:42:48,828 --> 01:42:50,828
In that alternative universe.

2408
01:42:50,828 --> 01:42:53,828
I feel that – you know how I see it like? It's like imagine –

2409
01:42:53,828 --> 01:42:55,828
So it would be totally different.

2410
01:42:55,828 --> 01:42:59,828
You know how I see you like right now with your project? You're like somewhere in a
room.

2411
01:42:59,828 --> 01:43:02,828
And you're in a room. There's 20 people, right?

2412
01:43:02,828 --> 01:43:06,828
And everyone wants to eat food because you kind of need to eat food. There's no way
about it.

2413
01:43:06,828 --> 01:43:10,828
And people start fighting about what food to eat. We should eat this. We should eat
this.

2414
01:43:10,828 --> 01:43:12,828
There's some guys who have some food here.

2415
01:43:12,828 --> 01:43:15,828
And you're just sitting here in a corner of a room.

2416
01:43:15,828 --> 01:43:18,828
You take out your fucking pencil and your academic – you use your academic
knowledge.

2417
01:43:18,828 --> 01:43:22,828
You write a white paper. It's like, guys, I know how everyone can get all their
food.

2418
01:43:22,828 --> 01:43:25,828
Everyone is happy and bio and the carnivores and whatever.

2419
01:43:25,828 --> 01:43:26,828
And you go like, guys, I figured it out.

2420
01:43:26,828 --> 01:43:31,828
And then literally everyone in the room turns at you because you're not on their
side and they hate you.

2421
01:43:31,828 --> 01:43:33,828
That's what's happening with you right now.

2422
01:43:33,828 --> 01:43:34,828
I think that's accurate, very accurate.

2423
01:43:34,828 --> 01:43:36,828
Yes, I know. That's what's happening right now.

2424
01:43:36,828 --> 01:43:40,828
And instead of being like pick a side, pick something.

2425
01:43:40,828 --> 01:43:43,828
Can we just – when you do the clip, when you cut the clip, I'll just put it on
Drivechain.

2426
01:43:43,828 --> 01:43:44,828
I'll do it.

2427
01:43:44,828 --> 01:43:45,828
I'll do it for you.

2428
01:43:45,828 --> 01:43:49,828
So now – so the thing is what's happening is like you're still sitting there and
everyone is throwing tomatoes.

2429
01:43:49,828 --> 01:43:50,828
And you're like, guys, no.

2430
01:43:50,828 --> 01:43:53,828
I need to – I clearly need to explain it one more time.

2431
01:43:53,828 --> 01:43:54,828
That's why I do that.

2432
01:43:54,828 --> 01:43:55,828
And every time you explain it, the more they hate you.

2433
01:43:55,828 --> 01:43:56,828
PowerPoint number eight.

2434
01:43:56,828 --> 01:43:57,828
Yeah, exactly.

2435
01:43:57,828 --> 01:43:59,828
And the more they hate you and the more –

2436
01:43:59,828 --> 01:44:01,828
I think one day I'll just have the right explanation.

2437
01:44:01,828 --> 01:44:04,828
And the thing you need to do is that you need to find one subgroup.

2438
01:44:04,828 --> 01:44:05,828
Yeah.

2439
01:44:05,828 --> 01:44:08,828
You need to go with your own narrative.

2440
01:44:08,828 --> 01:44:13,828
And then the only way you can do this is you find one subgroup that only wants to
eat vegetables or something.

2441
01:44:13,828 --> 01:44:14,828
You get two of them.

2442
01:44:14,828 --> 01:44:15,828
You grow it.

2443
01:44:15,828 --> 01:44:20,828
And then the only way this can succeed is everyone all of a sudden became the one
that eats vegetables.

2444
01:44:20,828 --> 01:44:22,828
But you're not going to get everyone to become friends.

2445
01:44:22,828 --> 01:44:23,828
You pick one.

2446
01:44:23,828 --> 01:44:26,828
You become enemy of everyone, and you grow it, and everyone abides to that.

2447
01:44:26,828 --> 01:44:29,828
That's the only way you can win this.

2448
01:44:29,828 --> 01:44:30,828
I'm so good with metaphors.

2449
01:44:30,828 --> 01:44:31,828
I'm so good sometimes.

2450
01:44:31,828 --> 01:44:35,828
Damn, I'm so good, son.

2451
01:44:35,828 --> 01:44:39,828
I don't know if that was going to make sense for a lot of people, but I'm sure it
made sense to you because I think that's what it is.

2452
01:44:39,828 --> 01:44:40,828
It's not making sense to me.

2453
01:44:40,828 --> 01:44:41,828
Yeah.

2454
01:44:41,828 --> 01:44:42,828
That's your strategy right there.

2455
01:44:42,828 --> 01:44:43,828
There you go.

2456
01:44:43,828 --> 01:44:51,828
But I didn't — we'll have to talk more about that later because I didn't fully
understand about everyone eating carrots in step two or whatever of that.

2457
01:44:51,828 --> 01:44:54,828
I didn't totally get step two.

2458
01:44:54,828 --> 01:44:55,828
I find a subgroup.

2459
01:44:55,828 --> 01:44:58,828
I found a neglected group.

2460
01:44:58,828 --> 01:45:02,828
And I say, you can have everything you want.

2461
01:45:02,828 --> 01:45:04,828
No, you can't say you have everything you want.

2462
01:45:04,828 --> 01:45:07,828
You find a subgroup who wants to eat vegetables, wants to eat carrots.

2463
01:45:07,828 --> 01:45:13,828
I think — is this Luke Jr. who wants a 350-kilobyte block?

2464
01:45:13,828 --> 01:45:15,828
Well, here's the thing right now.

2465
01:45:15,828 --> 01:45:20,828
If you would become the guy who's trying to put forward Luke's vision for the
whatever blocks through sidechains —

2466
01:45:20,828 --> 01:45:23,828
I kind of like Luke's vision, so I could become that guy.

2467
01:45:23,828 --> 01:45:28,828
That's going to be more sympathetic for the people rather than being the guy who
tries to put Roger Ver's vision, whoever he hates.

2468
01:45:28,828 --> 01:45:30,828
And I think he's a piece of shit anyway.

2469
01:45:30,828 --> 01:45:32,828
So you just picked the wrong crowd right now.

2470
01:45:32,828 --> 01:45:33,828
You hate the one for everyone.

2471
01:45:33,828 --> 01:45:36,828
It's the one who hates everyone else, and you made friends with that guy.

2472
01:45:36,828 --> 01:45:37,828
It's like, okay, bad.

2473
01:45:37,828 --> 01:45:39,828
That's the problem, you know?

2474
01:45:39,828 --> 01:45:42,828
I think — well, that makes a little bit of sense.

2475
01:45:42,828 --> 01:45:45,828
But, okay, so should we talk about Roger Ver or no?

2476
01:45:45,828 --> 01:45:46,828
How long is this podcast?

2477
01:45:46,828 --> 01:45:47,828
I don't know.

2478
01:45:47,828 --> 01:45:48,828
Just keep talking if you want to.

2479
01:45:48,828 --> 01:45:50,828
Okay, so, yeah.

2480
01:45:50,828 --> 01:45:55,828
So the story behind me and Roger Ver — and I like Roger Ver, and you hate him.

2481
01:45:55,828 --> 01:46:02,828
But he — Blockstream offered — so this is like when — what time traveling now?

2482
01:46:02,828 --> 01:46:05,828
2014?

2483
01:46:06,828 --> 01:46:12,828
2014, in like January, I published the Truthcoin white paper.

2484
01:46:12,828 --> 01:46:15,828
And there was a lot of interest.

2485
01:46:15,828 --> 01:46:20,828
There are actually multiple versions of Truthcoin out there at one point, but it's a
long story.

2486
01:46:20,828 --> 01:46:21,828
Anyway, get back on track.

2487
01:46:21,828 --> 01:46:27,828
Yeah, in November, Blockstream offered me like a partnership type thing.

2488
01:46:27,828 --> 01:46:28,828
Question before this.

2489
01:46:28,828 --> 01:46:32,828
So at some point, there's a white paper on sidechains that Maxwell —

2490
01:46:32,828 --> 01:46:34,828
That's November of 2015.

2491
01:46:34,828 --> 01:46:36,828
That's October 2014.

2492
01:46:36,828 --> 01:46:37,828
Okay, and your —

2493
01:46:37,828 --> 01:46:38,828
Oh, I have to tell you this, though.

2494
01:46:38,828 --> 01:46:40,828
Go on.

2495
01:46:40,828 --> 01:46:44,828
I don't think it's related, but I actually published a different version of
Drivechain,

2496
01:46:44,828 --> 01:46:51,828
DriveSpaceChain, the space, that I thought was so dumb that no one would like it,

2497
01:46:51,828 --> 01:46:54,828
but I published it anyway on Bitcoin Talk.

2498
01:46:54,828 --> 01:47:01,828
And it was like two chains, and once a chain is advanced enough, some multi-sig —

2499
01:47:01,828 --> 01:47:07,828
I didn't say federation, but I said some oracle, someone will just sign off on the
deposits.

2500
01:47:07,828 --> 01:47:10,828
And I was like, this idea is so stupid that no one will like it at all.

2501
01:47:10,828 --> 01:47:14,828
And that later became like Liquid, or, you know, I don't think it's really related,

2502
01:47:14,828 --> 01:47:19,828
but I just want to say that much earlier than that, the paper was published.

2503
01:47:19,828 --> 01:47:23,828
And then the idea that they put in Appendix A and that later became like their
foundation

2504
01:47:23,828 --> 01:47:28,828
of their like fake business model was what I thought was too stupid to even like
care about.

2505
01:47:28,828 --> 01:47:30,828
I think it was like April.

2506
01:47:30,828 --> 01:47:32,828
Okay, fair. I didn't know that, by the way.

2507
01:47:32,828 --> 01:47:34,828
It's a random — I don't think anyone knows that.

2508
01:47:34,828 --> 01:47:36,828
But yeah, Drivechain went through like different versions.

2509
01:47:36,828 --> 01:47:40,828
And then I was like, why do you have people sign that you're just making part of the
blockchain rules?

2510
01:47:40,828 --> 01:47:46,828
Okay, okay. So now getting back on track, you put up the paper, the paper paper in
January,

2511
01:47:46,828 --> 01:47:51,828
and when did Blockstream offer you the what?

2512
01:47:51,828 --> 01:47:56,828
Well, they were like, they reached out and said like, you know, you're doing a thing
with sidechains.

2513
01:47:57,828 --> 01:48:02,828
That's our thing. So we're natural allies. All that was correct.

2514
01:48:02,828 --> 01:48:05,828
And that was November and they wanted to help.

2515
01:48:05,828 --> 01:48:08,828
Wait, they wanted to help you or they wanted to come and work with you?

2516
01:48:08,828 --> 01:48:10,828
Help me build like Truthcoin, basically.

2517
01:48:10,828 --> 01:48:11,828
Wow, okay, cool.

2518
01:48:11,828 --> 01:48:13,828
You know, they did not really offer me a job.

2519
01:48:13,828 --> 01:48:14,828
Okay.

2520
01:48:14,828 --> 01:48:20,828
But it didn't really get that far because what happened was they were worried about
like prediction markets and regulators.

2521
01:48:20,828 --> 01:48:23,828
This was like before, you know, everything got big.

2522
01:48:23,828 --> 01:48:27,828
This is before blockchain, not Bitcoin. That was 2016. This is like way before all
that.

2523
01:48:27,828 --> 01:48:28,828
Yeah.

2524
01:48:28,828 --> 01:48:33,828
So this was like still like we may all be arrested in our sleep and then killed.

2525
01:48:33,828 --> 01:48:35,828
So they like didn't want to do it.

2526
01:48:35,828 --> 01:48:39,828
But then I met Roger Ver in December and he was just like pulled the trigger on it
immediately.

2527
01:48:39,828 --> 01:48:48,828
So he helped create, he's really responsible for, because the guy that he hired, who
I don't want to like talk about this,

2528
01:48:48,828 --> 01:48:55,828
but it was like, I don't even want to say because I shouldn't say, but that person
helped work with me.

2529
01:48:55,828 --> 01:49:01,828
And if you go to BitcoinHiveMain.com and scroll down, you can see the software that
we produced.

2530
01:49:01,828 --> 01:49:03,828
That was in 2015.

2531
01:49:03,828 --> 01:49:05,828
Yeah, so I know there's that.

2532
01:49:05,828 --> 01:49:09,828
So he pulled the trigger and Blockstream was like, they were like not cyberpunk
enough.

2533
01:49:09,828 --> 01:49:11,828
Okay, one second right now. I need to ask something.

2534
01:49:11,828 --> 01:49:16,828
So when you say pull the trigger, did he give you finding that he has his guy saying
he's like go and work with this guy?

2535
01:49:16,828 --> 01:49:17,828
What happened exactly?

2536
01:49:17,828 --> 01:49:20,828
Yes, he paid for the development. He paid me to quit my job.

2537
01:49:20,828 --> 01:49:22,828
Oh, where did you work then?

2538
01:49:22,828 --> 01:49:24,828
I was working at Yale.

2539
01:49:24,828 --> 01:49:27,828
The prestigious job at Yale.

2540
01:49:27,828 --> 01:49:28,828
Have you heard of it?

2541
01:49:28,828 --> 01:49:29,828
You may have heard of it.

2542
01:49:29,828 --> 01:49:32,828
It's in the last trailer.

2543
01:49:32,828 --> 01:49:44,828
Anyway, so this guy goes like, look, I'm going to pay you a salary and I'm going to
give you some money to hire someone else to work with you on this and make this an
executable pretty much.

2544
01:49:45,828 --> 01:49:46,828
Yeah, whatever.

2545
01:49:46,828 --> 01:49:47,828
Like that.

2546
01:49:47,828 --> 01:49:48,828
Whatever.

2547
01:49:48,828 --> 01:49:49,828
Yeah.

2548
01:49:49,828 --> 01:49:50,828
Yeah.

2549
01:49:50,828 --> 01:49:51,828
Okay.

2550
01:49:51,828 --> 01:49:52,828
Which was produced.

2551
01:49:52,828 --> 01:49:53,828
It is.

2552
01:49:53,828 --> 01:49:55,828
It's been on the site the whole time.

2553
01:49:55,828 --> 01:49:56,828
Now I have a question.

2554
01:49:56,828 --> 01:49:57,828
Is it known?

2555
01:49:57,828 --> 01:49:59,828
Do you want to share how much he did?

2556
01:49:59,828 --> 01:50:00,828
He gave the money.

2557
01:50:00,828 --> 01:50:01,828
Or do you don't want to share that?

2558
01:50:01,828 --> 01:50:03,828
What do you want to know?

2559
01:50:03,828 --> 01:50:07,828
Do you want to share how much he invested in your project pretty much?

2560
01:50:08,828 --> 01:50:14,828
I can estimate that it was like, I don't know.

2561
01:50:14,828 --> 01:50:18,828
Maybe I should say, like, if you think you shouldn't say, don't say it.

2562
01:50:18,828 --> 01:50:20,828
But yeah, I probably shouldn't say it's not.

2563
01:50:20,828 --> 01:50:22,828
It wasn't very much, though.

2564
01:50:22,828 --> 01:50:23,828
Okay.

2565
01:50:23,828 --> 01:50:24,828
Anyway.

2566
01:50:24,828 --> 01:50:25,828
I mean, how much could it be?

2567
01:50:25,828 --> 01:50:26,828
It was only like a few.

2568
01:50:26,828 --> 01:50:28,828
If you don't want to say, don't fucking say it, dude.

2569
01:50:28,828 --> 01:50:29,828
I just don't.

2570
01:50:29,828 --> 01:50:31,828
I just think I can't figure out if I should say or not.

2571
01:50:31,828 --> 01:50:32,828
So I just, why not?

2572
01:50:32,828 --> 01:50:33,828
Okay.

2573
01:50:33,828 --> 01:50:34,828
Forget about it.

2574
01:50:34,828 --> 01:50:35,828
So now other questions.

2575
01:50:35,828 --> 01:50:38,828
So now when he did this deal, what kind of deal did you have with him?

2576
01:50:38,828 --> 01:50:39,828
Like, I'll give you this money.

2577
01:50:39,828 --> 01:50:40,828
And what did you get him back?

2578
01:50:40,828 --> 01:50:42,828
You give him equity or what was it?

2579
01:50:42,828 --> 01:50:46,828
There is the Hivemind has a second token.

2580
01:50:46,828 --> 01:50:48,828
This was long before all this stuff.

2581
01:50:48,828 --> 01:50:50,828
And it's out of exasperation.

2582
01:50:50,828 --> 01:50:53,828
So you don't need the token to use it or whatever.

2583
01:50:53,828 --> 01:50:55,828
It's like an employee only zone.

2584
01:50:55,828 --> 01:51:00,828
But because the way the economics work, you have to do some labor.

2585
01:51:00,828 --> 01:51:04,828
Because you need a way to punish people who report badly.

2586
01:51:04,828 --> 01:51:09,828
Now those people earn a wage that is far above the equilibrium.

2587
01:51:09,828 --> 01:51:11,828
So you have to do a little bit of work.

2588
01:51:11,828 --> 01:51:15,828
But just the way it all works out, those people, you know,

2589
01:51:15,828 --> 01:51:20,828
you have to spend like an afternoon typing like 250 answers to questions.

2590
01:51:20,828 --> 01:51:22,828
That's like four times per year.

2591
01:51:22,828 --> 01:51:24,828
So you do a very small amount of work,

2592
01:51:24,828 --> 01:51:28,828
but in return they get potentially a huge amount of money that co-varies

2593
01:51:28,828 --> 01:51:30,828
with the trading activity in the markets.

2594
01:51:30,828 --> 01:51:33,828
I think that's really good context.

2595
01:51:33,828 --> 01:51:35,828
So you're trying to say that the reason you had this token,

2596
01:51:35,828 --> 01:51:37,828
very apologetically I might add,

2597
01:51:37,828 --> 01:51:42,828
is because it was a way that you had to like put,

2598
01:51:42,828 --> 01:51:44,828
incentivize everything altogether.

2599
01:51:44,828 --> 01:51:45,828
Yeah, it's part of the design.

2600
01:51:45,828 --> 01:51:47,828
It had nothing to do with raising money or whatever, anything.

2601
01:51:47,828 --> 01:51:51,828
So now Roger gives you X amount of money, which you should disclose.

2602
01:51:51,828 --> 01:51:54,828
And then you say, what did you give him in return?

2603
01:51:54,828 --> 01:51:55,828
Some percentage of it.

2604
01:51:55,828 --> 01:51:57,828
I said you can have some percentage of that.

2605
01:51:57,828 --> 01:51:59,828
Okay. Okay. All right.

2606
01:51:59,828 --> 01:52:04,828
So that was actually pretty well wrapped up actually,

2607
01:52:04,828 --> 01:52:07,828
especially compared to all the stuff that people would later come up with.

2608
01:52:07,828 --> 01:52:08,828
All right. So this was, again,

2609
01:52:08,828 --> 01:52:11,828
this was just pretty much a thing between you and him.

2610
01:52:11,828 --> 01:52:13,828
And then this token, by the way,

2611
01:52:13,828 --> 01:52:17,828
was it generated in the beginning or how did this token work exactly?

2612
01:52:17,828 --> 01:52:19,828
A hundred percent of it exists at the beginning because it is,

2613
01:52:19,828 --> 01:52:20,828
it was just terrible.

2614
01:52:20,828 --> 01:52:23,828
It looks as though this is like a hundred percent free mind scam or

2615
01:52:23,828 --> 01:52:25,828
something, but it's not like that at all.

2616
01:52:25,828 --> 01:52:27,828
I mean, there's a lot of things wrong with it. Sorry.

2617
01:52:27,828 --> 01:52:28,828
It is, but it is not.

2618
01:52:28,828 --> 01:52:32,828
There's basically like this Oracle corporation that resolves the answers.

2619
01:52:32,828 --> 01:52:34,828
And you own like a percentage of it.

2620
01:52:34,828 --> 01:52:38,828
And it's important that this exists because otherwise there's no,

2621
01:52:38,828 --> 01:52:40,828
there's nothing to stop exit scamming.

2622
01:52:40,828 --> 01:52:41,828
Right.

2623
01:52:41,828 --> 01:52:43,828
So you build up a reputation and then you exit scam.

2624
01:52:43,828 --> 01:52:45,828
But with this, you build up a reputation.

2625
01:52:45,828 --> 01:52:47,828
The corporation becomes more, it's just like in real life.

2626
01:52:47,828 --> 01:52:49,828
The company becomes more valuable and then you just sell,

2627
01:52:49,828 --> 01:52:51,828
you don't exit scam, you just sell to someone else.

2628
01:52:51,828 --> 01:52:53,828
Right. Right. So now when you, when you did this,

2629
01:52:53,828 --> 01:52:56,828
did you give Roger a wallet and you sent him the coins before?

2630
01:52:56,828 --> 01:52:57,828
No, because it's like,

2631
01:52:57,828 --> 01:53:00,828
it was never produced because Blockstream never made sidechains.

2632
01:53:00,828 --> 01:53:02,828
So it's like kind of in this unfinished state.

2633
01:53:02,828 --> 01:53:05,828
And I'm not even sure exactly what the state of the agreement is.

2634
01:53:05,828 --> 01:53:07,828
So now, so now after all these years.

2635
01:53:07,828 --> 01:53:09,828
Exactly. I don't know. Like, you know,

2636
01:53:09,828 --> 01:53:12,828
I'm happy to figure something out.

2637
01:53:12,828 --> 01:53:13,828
When is the last time you talked to Roger?

2638
01:53:13,828 --> 01:53:15,828
That's a good question.

2639
01:53:15,828 --> 01:53:17,828
It's been a while.

2640
01:53:17,828 --> 01:53:21,828
It's been more than a year. Yeah. It's been like more than, I don't know.

2641
01:53:21,828 --> 01:53:23,828
Here's the thing that I'm trying to understand.

2642
01:53:23,828 --> 01:53:27,828
I think you had this wrong impression that if someone gives you money as an

2643
01:53:27,828 --> 01:53:29,828
investment, you have to give it back. It's like, no, it's, it's,

2644
01:53:29,828 --> 01:53:32,828
if the project filled, that's what investment works like.

2645
01:53:32,828 --> 01:53:35,828
Some person takes the risk with you because they believe in you.

2646
01:53:35,828 --> 01:53:37,828
Well, not all of them, but most of them,

2647
01:53:37,828 --> 01:53:39,828
VCs probably wouldn't have seen it the same way.

2648
01:53:39,828 --> 01:53:42,828
But most of them that I've tried to merge your company or something,

2649
01:53:42,828 --> 01:53:44,828
or hire you somewhere and get some money back.

2650
01:53:44,828 --> 01:53:47,828
But the thing that would try to go for a soft line as much as they can.

2651
01:53:47,828 --> 01:53:50,828
But with Roger, I guess it's like, you're off the hook, you know?

2652
01:53:50,828 --> 01:53:52,828
Well, there were a lot of people who,

2653
01:53:52,828 --> 01:53:56,828
I was not comfortable taking money from almost anyone and,

2654
01:53:56,828 --> 01:53:58,828
and, but I was taking it from, because, you know, he has,

2655
01:53:58,828 --> 01:53:59,828
he had a lot of money.

2656
01:53:59,828 --> 01:54:01,828
So I was like, this wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

2657
01:54:01,828 --> 01:54:05,828
And this is right up his alley, honestly, with all the stuff about this.

2658
01:54:05,828 --> 01:54:10,828
And the project still like could achieve greatness, which is crazy.

2659
01:54:10,828 --> 01:54:12,828
Is that the,

2660
01:54:12,828 --> 01:54:15,828
even though the theoretical basis for Hivemind, as far as I can tell,

2661
01:54:15,828 --> 01:54:16,828
makes sense and whatever,

2662
01:54:16,828 --> 01:54:19,828
clearly the project flopped because it didn't survive. Right.

2663
01:54:19,828 --> 01:54:21,828
And, and I think you're, if you feel bad for that,

2664
01:54:21,828 --> 01:54:24,828
I do feel bad that it hasn't started. It hasn't, it hasn't started.

2665
01:54:24,828 --> 01:54:26,828
You feel bad that someone gave you money,

2666
01:54:26,828 --> 01:54:27,828
which were they were willing to take that risk.

2667
01:54:27,828 --> 01:54:29,828
And you feel like you kind of owe to these people to like,

2668
01:54:29,828 --> 01:54:31,828
give them back something. And it's like, well, I'm sorry,

2669
01:54:31,828 --> 01:54:32,828
but that's how it works.

2670
01:54:32,828 --> 01:54:35,828
You can't be a businessman and thing like that. Look, you know,

2671
01:54:35,828 --> 01:54:37,828
when they say, when you get money,

2672
01:54:37,828 --> 01:54:39,828
the first time you're supposed to get it from the free Fs,

2673
01:54:39,828 --> 01:54:40,828
you know what that is?

2674
01:54:40,828 --> 01:54:42,828
You can't be a businessman and thing like that.

2675
01:54:42,828 --> 01:54:44,828
Look, man, it's very simple. Like, look,

2676
01:54:44,828 --> 01:54:46,828
I don't think you should go and scam grannies or something,

2677
01:54:46,828 --> 01:54:49,828
but it's almost to give you their money. And that's a risk.

2678
01:54:49,828 --> 01:54:51,828
And that's on them. I don't have to do fuck me.

2679
01:54:51,828 --> 01:54:53,828
That's how investment works. So that's it.

2680
01:54:53,828 --> 01:54:56,828
But you should also give him a call and be like, by the way,

2681
01:54:56,828 --> 01:54:57,828
do you even remember?

2682
01:54:57,828 --> 01:55:01,828
And he doing judo or something and he's probably going to be like,

2683
01:55:01,828 --> 01:55:02,828
I don't know who the fuck you are, by the way.

2684
01:55:02,828 --> 01:55:11,828
I don't remember.

2685
01:55:12,828 --> 01:55:14,828
I give money to everyone.

2686
01:55:14,828 --> 01:55:15,828
I don't even remember.

2687
01:55:15,828 --> 01:55:18,828
But the problem with Roger Verdo is that.

2688
01:55:18,828 --> 01:55:19,828
Yeah. What is the problem?

2689
01:55:19,828 --> 01:55:20,828
Cause you really don't like him.

2690
01:55:20,828 --> 01:55:23,828
So, but my, and I, I met him many times.

2691
01:55:23,828 --> 01:55:24,828
Super nice guy.

2692
01:55:26,828 --> 01:55:30,828
He's very nice to like all the people you meet, like, you know,

2693
01:55:30,828 --> 01:55:32,828
the people you meet like in the hallway or whatever.

2694
01:55:32,828 --> 01:55:35,828
So it's just, it's him. That's the nice guy.

2695
01:55:35,828 --> 01:55:37,828
It's like, he's nice for the camera or something.

2696
01:55:37,828 --> 01:55:38,828
I believe that.

2697
01:55:38,828 --> 01:55:39,828
I honestly believe that.

2698
01:55:39,828 --> 01:55:40,828
I sincerely believe that.

2699
01:55:40,828 --> 01:55:44,828
He really cares about Bitcoin and really cares about making the world a

2700
01:55:44,828 --> 01:55:46,828
better place. And, you know,

2701
01:55:46,828 --> 01:55:50,828
I infer that he really wants revenge on the government for imprisonment,

2702
01:55:50,828 --> 01:55:53,828
wrongfully imprisoning him. And when he was a teenager.

2703
01:55:54,828 --> 01:55:56,828
So what's not to like, I mean.

2704
01:55:56,828 --> 01:55:58,828
Well, I'll tell you what's not to like.

2705
01:55:58,828 --> 01:56:00,828
You know, you can have ideals.

2706
01:56:00,828 --> 01:56:05,828
Like you want to play guitar and sometimes your ideals might get corrupted

2707
01:56:05,828 --> 01:56:06,828
in some way. That's how life is.

2708
01:56:06,828 --> 01:56:08,828
You get corrupted as a person corrupt yourself.

2709
01:56:08,828 --> 01:56:12,828
Sometimes that's the path of change and achieving whatever you want to

2710
01:56:12,828 --> 01:56:14,828
achieve. But the problem is that.

2711
01:56:16,828 --> 01:56:17,828
And I, again,

2712
01:56:17,828 --> 01:56:20,828
I like person who tries and who's willing to just break the line just a bit

2713
01:56:20,828 --> 01:56:21,828
and whatever. I like that so much.

2714
01:56:21,828 --> 01:56:23,828
I think that's how I get ahead in life. Right.

2715
01:56:23,828 --> 01:56:27,828
But there's some things that I would never cross and,

2716
01:56:28,828 --> 01:56:31,828
and not because I think there's a moral standard that I find that everyone

2717
01:56:31,828 --> 01:56:34,828
should abide to. I just think it's just bad to do those things.

2718
01:56:35,828 --> 01:56:40,828
And the thing he did is he's not an honest guy anymore. He, and again,

2719
01:56:40,828 --> 01:56:42,828
I'm okay. Maybe you want to lie a bit.

2720
01:56:43,828 --> 01:56:46,828
The held shell. Yes. I'm okay with that. I'm trying to just figure it out.

2721
01:56:47,828 --> 01:56:51,828
I'm okay. But here's the problem. I love me.

2722
01:56:51,828 --> 01:56:55,828
Look, that was just me going on crazy. I love the guy. He's a smart guy.

2723
01:56:55,828 --> 01:56:57,828
Like I would, I would, I never had a chance to,

2724
01:56:57,828 --> 01:57:00,828
I don't think I ever met him, but I would definitely,

2725
01:57:00,828 --> 01:57:02,828
like I would really be interested in talking to him.

2726
01:57:02,828 --> 01:57:04,828
Cause he's a really smart guy and he,

2727
01:57:04,828 --> 01:57:07,828
he knows a lot of things and his brain works interesting and he sometimes

2728
01:57:07,828 --> 01:57:10,828
distracts things. So he has nice memes. So again, I don't want to say like,

2729
01:57:10,828 --> 01:57:12,828
you know, but fuck him anyway.

2730
01:57:14,828 --> 01:57:19,828
So the problem with Roger is that is that he is not honest at all.

2731
01:57:19,828 --> 01:57:22,828
And he got to a point like, see this thing. I'm okay. Maybe I'll,

2732
01:57:22,828 --> 01:57:24,828
I'll lie to you that if I sell something,

2733
01:57:24,828 --> 01:57:27,828
I maybe even like lie a bit about it,

2734
01:57:27,828 --> 01:57:30,828
but I don't want to be super disingenuous. Like, you know,

2735
01:57:30,828 --> 01:57:32,828
maybe I'll lie to you and I'll give you the product.

2736
01:57:32,828 --> 01:57:35,828
It comes shipped a day later or something. I'm okay with that,

2737
01:57:35,828 --> 01:57:37,828
but I'm not okay with you telling me like,

2738
01:57:37,828 --> 01:57:41,828
this is a glass and you send me a fucking rubber duck in the box.

2739
01:57:41,828 --> 01:57:44,828
I'll never be able to be okay with that. And that's what he did.

2740
01:57:44,828 --> 01:57:45,828
It's about the Bitcoin name though.

2741
01:57:45,828 --> 01:57:48,828
It's about all the other things. And it gets you to, you know what?

2742
01:57:48,828 --> 01:57:49,828
The thing is like,

2743
01:57:49,828 --> 01:57:53,828
I think he got to a point where he really thought he was right and he got so

2744
01:57:53,828 --> 01:57:57,828
invested with this. And then it was more obvious that he was wrong.

2745
01:57:57,828 --> 01:58:02,828
But the, the, the, the people are hitting him so much that he couldn't,

2746
01:58:02,828 --> 01:58:04,828
he can't go back. Well, yeah. I mean,

2747
01:58:06,828 --> 01:58:08,828
and now he's in this position where,

2748
01:58:08,828 --> 01:58:11,828
where he comes down and he's wrong because I don't know. Maybe again,

2749
01:58:11,828 --> 01:58:14,828
he has a lot of money or whatever. So he, he can't probably admit he was wrong,

2750
01:58:15,828 --> 01:58:18,828
but also just because of that hate, I guess he can't like snap out of it.

2751
01:58:18,828 --> 01:58:21,828
And it's, he's the same as Darth Vader, by the way.

2752
01:58:22,828 --> 01:58:24,828
That's the thing with Darth Vader though.

2753
01:58:24,828 --> 01:58:26,828
He was one of the most powerful people in the universe. Literally.

2754
01:58:26,828 --> 01:58:29,828
I'm not saying Roger is like that, but he was in a good position at the beginning.

2755
01:58:29,828 --> 01:58:30,828
And the only,

2756
01:58:30,828 --> 01:58:33,828
he ended up being the biggest loser in the universe because he was afraid.

2757
01:58:34,828 --> 01:58:37,828
Fear is what made him do that. Right. And so anger, anger,

2758
01:58:37,828 --> 01:58:40,828
and anger then afterwards, anger, anger got him.

2759
01:58:40,828 --> 01:58:42,828
This is a very weird interpretation. I think.

2760
01:58:43,828 --> 01:58:44,828
I don't think so at all.

2761
01:58:44,828 --> 01:58:46,828
I think Roger right now is just angry at people being mad at him.

2762
01:58:47,828 --> 01:58:50,828
And instead of being like, these guys are wrong and whatever, he's still,

2763
01:58:51,828 --> 01:58:54,828
he's one-upping it every time. Kids are dying. I mean, come on.

2764
01:58:55,828 --> 01:58:58,828
That's just cringeville 9,000. You know what I'm trying to say?

2765
01:58:58,828 --> 01:58:59,828
That's why I don't like him.

2766
01:58:59,828 --> 01:59:01,828
That's the type of thing that you're not supposed to say.

2767
01:59:01,828 --> 01:59:07,828
He became the person, he became so disingenuous that there's really, I can see.

2768
01:59:07,828 --> 01:59:10,828
But no, but it's the disingenuous, what you're talking about is the name though.

2769
01:59:10,828 --> 01:59:12,828
The idea of the real Bitcoin.

2770
01:59:13,828 --> 01:59:16,828
The name, the arguments he's putting forward.

2771
01:59:16,828 --> 01:59:20,828
He's always trying, again, I said this at some point when we were talking,

2772
01:59:20,828 --> 01:59:23,828
you know, there's these guys who walk on the street and try to put a bracelet on
you,

2773
01:59:23,828 --> 01:59:26,828
and then you have to pay for it. That's how he feels.

2774
01:59:27,828 --> 01:59:28,828
I've never experienced that.

2775
01:59:29,828 --> 01:59:32,828
You never went in tourist areas and there's guys who make the bracelets

2776
01:59:32,828 --> 01:59:34,828
and they snap it on your hand and say goodbye?

2777
01:59:35,828 --> 01:59:36,828
Nope.

2778
01:59:36,828 --> 01:59:38,828
You're clearly going in the wrong place on vacation.

2779
01:59:38,828 --> 01:59:39,828
Yeah, I guess so.

2780
01:59:39,828 --> 01:59:41,828
So that's my problem with Roger.

2781
01:59:42,828 --> 01:59:43,828
I don't like weird things.

2782
01:59:44,828 --> 01:59:46,828
Like, okay.

2783
01:59:47,828 --> 01:59:50,828
Once someone tried to have, they had like a monkey like climbing on people

2784
01:59:50,828 --> 01:59:53,828
and they would like try to take pictures and sell them to you.

2785
01:59:53,828 --> 01:59:54,828
That was pretty weird.

2786
01:59:54,828 --> 01:59:55,828
Wow, where was this happening?

2787
01:59:56,828 --> 01:59:57,828
This was in the Caribbean.

2788
01:59:57,828 --> 01:59:58,828
Where did you go in the Caribbean?

2789
01:59:59,828 --> 02:00:01,828
I was, why does it matter?

2790
02:00:01,828 --> 02:00:02,828
Where, where, where?

2791
02:00:02,828 --> 02:00:03,828
I'm curious.

2792
02:00:03,828 --> 02:00:04,828
I've been also there and I'm curious.

2793
02:00:05,828 --> 02:00:06,828
I don't think it matters very much.

2794
02:00:07,828 --> 02:00:08,828
You don't want to share where you were?

2795
02:00:08,828 --> 02:00:10,828
It's not, it's not, it's not.

2796
02:00:10,828 --> 02:00:11,828
It's not good for the story.

2797
02:00:12,828 --> 02:00:13,828
What does this have to do with the fucking story?

2798
02:00:14,828 --> 02:00:15,828
This is just a tangent.

2799
02:00:16,828 --> 02:00:18,828
Well, anyway, if you don't want to say, you don't want to fucking say, fine.

2800
02:00:18,828 --> 02:00:19,828
That's all good.

2801
02:00:19,828 --> 02:00:20,828
Okay.

2802
02:00:20,828 --> 02:00:21,828
Anyway, regardless.

2803
02:00:21,828 --> 02:00:22,828
Yeah.

2804
02:00:22,828 --> 02:00:23,828
So that's my problem with Roger.

2805
02:00:23,828 --> 02:00:26,828
It gets right now where I, I really, whenever he comes up anywhere,

2806
02:00:27,828 --> 02:00:30,828
there's a disingenuous, this such crazy nature that it just baffles me.

2807
02:00:31,828 --> 02:00:33,828
So I got to the point where I look, he's a troubled person.

2808
02:00:34,828 --> 02:00:37,828
I'm trying to say, what is the disingenuous,

2809
02:00:37,828 --> 02:00:38,828
it's about the name is what I'm.

2810
02:00:39,828 --> 02:00:41,828
The name, all the arguments he's making.

2811
02:00:42,828 --> 02:00:43,828
It sounds like they're technical.

2812
02:00:44,828 --> 02:00:47,828
All the proposition he's made, all the lying about, like, I remember,

2813
02:00:48,828 --> 02:00:49,828
like I tweeted something on Max Keiser.

2814
02:00:50,828 --> 02:00:51,828
He was a big hypocrite.

2815
02:00:52,828 --> 02:00:53,828
He was, he means something about Roger Ver.

2816
02:00:54,828 --> 02:00:57,828
And then I tweeted, like, I have to like cough and a clip of,

2817
02:00:58,828 --> 02:00:59,828
of Roger being on his show.

2818
02:01:00,828 --> 02:01:01,828
And he wasn't opposing him anyway.

2819
02:01:02,828 --> 02:01:05,828
And I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,

2820
02:01:05,828 --> 02:01:06,828
he wasn't opposing him anyway.

2821
02:01:07,828 --> 02:01:08,828
And I was watching that show recently.

2822
02:01:09,828 --> 02:01:10,828
And he goes like the miners want this.

2823
02:01:11,828 --> 02:01:13,828
He's just making up a lot of things.

2824
02:01:14,828 --> 02:01:15,828
It's another thing though.

2825
02:01:16,828 --> 02:01:17,828
I mean, Max Keiser, I like I've met Max Keiser many times,

2826
02:01:18,828 --> 02:01:19,828
Matt and Stacey, they're super nice.

2827
02:01:20,828 --> 02:01:21,828
I like them.

2828
02:01:22,828 --> 02:01:23,828
They're great.

2829
02:01:24,828 --> 02:01:25,828
That's someone I would want to hang out with.

2830
02:01:26,828 --> 02:01:27,828
I know he's, I think a super interesting guy.

2831
02:01:28,828 --> 02:01:31,828
But you know, like, what about like with Max coin?

2832
02:01:32,828 --> 02:01:34,828
And there's all this other stuff that Max Keiser has done.

2833
02:01:35,828 --> 02:01:37,828
I don't remember, but crazy around 2000.

2834
02:01:38,828 --> 02:01:39,828
People like, don't talk about it.

2835
02:01:40,828 --> 02:01:41,828
Here's the thing with Max Keiser,

2836
02:01:42,828 --> 02:01:46,828
like the barrels of the fucking shit coins from 2013 to whatever,

2837
02:01:47,828 --> 02:01:49,828
they would get those mini pumps from his fucking show.

2838
02:01:50,828 --> 02:01:51,828
He had the bottom of the barrel.

2839
02:01:52,828 --> 02:01:53,828
And here's the thing right now.

2840
02:01:54,828 --> 02:01:55,828
I don't think he could understand what was happening.

2841
02:01:56,828 --> 02:01:57,828
He's not a technical guy.

2842
02:01:58,828 --> 02:01:59,828
He's pretty smart.

2843
02:02:00,828 --> 02:02:01,828
He understands financial fraud.

2844
02:02:02,828 --> 02:02:04,828
No, but I don't think he understood.

2845
02:02:05,828 --> 02:02:07,828
Anyway, the point is this bottom of the bottles would come there.

2846
02:02:08,828 --> 02:02:09,828
Now, all of a sudden, he realized,

2847
02:02:10,828 --> 02:02:13,828
like people started having Tona around when Tone came on his show.

2848
02:02:14,828 --> 02:02:15,828
I'm going to tell you.

2849
02:02:16,828 --> 02:02:17,828
Around when Tone came on his show,

2850
02:02:18,828 --> 02:02:19,828
he started going on a Maximo's run.

2851
02:02:21,828 --> 02:02:22,828
And then when he did that, he, you know,

2852
02:02:23,828 --> 02:02:24,828
he has like a lot of Bitcoin and he has this fund

2853
02:02:25,828 --> 02:02:26,828
that he invested in a lot of companies.

2854
02:02:27,828 --> 02:02:28,828
He invested in Casa and Swan and whatever.

2855
02:02:29,828 --> 02:02:31,828
Well, no, these people cannot call him out.

2856
02:02:32,828 --> 02:02:33,828
He has money in their fucking company.

2857
02:02:33,828 --> 02:02:34,828
So they're not going to call him out and be like,

2858
02:02:35,828 --> 02:02:37,828
Mav, you're a big hypocrite with two fucking faces, you know?

2859
02:02:38,828 --> 02:02:39,828
And now if you want to raise money,

2860
02:02:40,828 --> 02:02:42,828
who's a better person to get money from than Max Cazor?

2861
02:02:43,828 --> 02:02:44,828
Because you get also exposure from him.

2862
02:02:45,828 --> 02:02:46,828
He's like the real investor who doesn't bring you just money.

2863
02:02:47,828 --> 02:02:48,828
And he's also smart.

2864
02:02:50,828 --> 02:02:51,828
You want to be like, Max, come on, help us out.

2865
02:02:53,828 --> 02:02:54,828
So now all of a sudden you're in this weird position

2866
02:02:55,828 --> 02:02:56,828
where like no one can stand up to him.

2867
02:02:57,828 --> 02:02:58,828
And I don't think he's doing anything wrong.

2868
02:03:00,828 --> 02:03:02,828
But I think there's some things that if you want to be

2869
02:03:03,828 --> 02:03:04,828
really honest and consistent,

2870
02:03:05,828 --> 02:03:06,828
if you're someone who calls everyone out,

2871
02:03:07,828 --> 02:03:08,828
call him out also.

2872
02:03:09,828 --> 02:03:10,828
And by the way, before I started this podcast,

2873
02:03:11,828 --> 02:03:12,828
you know I had a creative brief.

2874
02:03:13,828 --> 02:03:14,828
I sent it to him also and asked for feedback.

2875
02:03:15,828 --> 02:03:16,828
And he helped me out.

2876
02:03:17,828 --> 02:03:18,828
He gave me a lot of feedback on that, a lot.

2877
02:03:19,828 --> 02:03:20,828
And I thank him.

2878
02:03:21,828 --> 02:03:22,828
I really appreciate that he did that, by the way.

2879
02:03:23,828 --> 02:03:24,828
He was really nice.

2880
02:03:25,828 --> 02:03:26,828
He answered like instant, by the way.

2881
02:03:27,828 --> 02:03:28,828
So I don't want to say that, but he's a super cool guy.

2882
02:03:29,828 --> 02:03:30,828
He's a super cool guy.

2883
02:03:31,828 --> 02:03:32,828
But he, again, all of a sudden,

2884
02:03:33,828 --> 02:03:34,828
he's kind of crazy.

2885
02:03:35,828 --> 02:03:36,828
Max Keiser is like, you know,

2886
02:03:37,828 --> 02:03:38,828
he's a loose cannon.

2887
02:03:39,828 --> 02:03:40,828
He's like crazy.

2888
02:03:41,828 --> 02:03:42,828
Don't you think?

2889
02:03:43,828 --> 02:03:44,828
What do you like about Stacy?

2890
02:03:45,828 --> 02:03:46,828
There's nothing entertaining.

2891
02:03:47,828 --> 02:03:48,828
She's cool, but she's not like entertaining.

2892
02:03:49,828 --> 02:03:50,828
I don't know.

2893
02:03:51,828 --> 02:03:52,828
She's more like chilled out.

2894
02:03:53,828 --> 02:03:54,828
Yeah, exactly.

2895
02:03:54,828 --> 02:03:55,828
That was the problem.

2896
02:03:56,828 --> 02:03:57,828
I like Max because I definitely...

2897
02:03:58,828 --> 02:03:59,828
Max, sometimes I'm like, yeah, you definitely are.

2898
02:04:00,828 --> 02:04:01,828
And he's like, yeah, I don't know.

2899
02:04:01,828 --> 02:04:02,828
I mean, I think sometimes, again,

2900
02:04:03,828 --> 02:04:05,828
if it's in on the joke, it's good.

2901
02:04:06,828 --> 02:04:07,828
Like when he was doing with Peter Schiff recently.

2902
02:04:08,828 --> 02:04:09,828
Did you see that?

2903
02:04:10,828 --> 02:04:11,828
I know the old clip where he starts yelling,

2904
02:04:12,828 --> 02:04:13,828
and you're wrong.

2905
02:04:14,828 --> 02:04:15,828
Yeah, exactly.

2906
02:04:16,828 --> 02:04:17,828
Well, that was only like five days ago.

2907
02:04:18,828 --> 02:04:19,828
What do you mean?

2908
02:04:20,828 --> 02:04:21,828
That wasn't that long ago.

2909
02:04:22,828 --> 02:04:23,828
Okay, well, you know what?

2910
02:04:24,828 --> 02:04:25,828
Here's the thing right now.

2911
02:04:26,828 --> 02:04:27,828
I am a person who yells a lot.

2912
02:04:28,828 --> 02:04:29,828
And I think a lot of people are going to think

2913
02:04:29,828 --> 02:04:30,828
it's like 100% self-awareness.

2914
02:04:31,828 --> 02:04:32,828
He's like totally in on the joke.

2915
02:04:33,828 --> 02:04:34,828
Like the joke is like,

2916
02:04:35,828 --> 02:04:36,828
I'm just going to be a crazy person.

2917
02:04:37,828 --> 02:04:38,828
And it won't matter because the government

2918
02:04:39,828 --> 02:04:40,828
can't close down Bitcoin.

2919
02:04:41,828 --> 02:04:42,828
I'm not going to get any hate from this.

2920
02:04:43,828 --> 02:04:44,828
So it'll just be funny.

2921
02:04:45,828 --> 02:04:46,828
And it was funny.

2922
02:04:47,828 --> 02:04:48,828
I think he pumps it up for the show.

2923
02:04:49,828 --> 02:04:50,828
But I think there are moments in his life

2924
02:04:51,828 --> 02:04:52,828
when his blood raises and he starts doing it.

2925
02:04:53,828 --> 02:04:54,828
I think that's how he is in real life.

2926
02:04:55,828 --> 02:04:56,828
I don't think you can fake that.

2927
02:04:57,828 --> 02:04:58,630
He does it too well.

2928
02:04:58,630 --> 02:05:02,630
And again, as a person who I do that also sometimes people might think I'm
performing, but it's like, no, even if I'm going bread, I'll do that.

2929
02:05:02,630 --> 02:05:09,630
We were at a big table when there was like maybe like 18 or so, maybe like 12
people. I did actually have dinner with him once.

2930
02:05:09,630 --> 02:05:15,630
And he did not become a crazy, crazy yelling person. That's n equals one data point.
I don't know.

2931
02:05:15,630 --> 02:05:22,630
Okay, maybe I'm wrong. And I'm predicting. Fair enough. Okay. But I called him out.
Anyway, I called him out before the show.

2932
02:05:23,630 --> 02:05:29,630
And I posted it on your blog. Yeah, of course. I don't know. I think it's fine. I
don't think I did anything bad or something like that.

2933
02:05:29,630 --> 02:05:37,630
So wait, what did Roger do? What did Roger do to get redemption in Alex's book?

2934
02:05:37,630 --> 02:05:46,630
It's very simple, man. Think, take a step back, go meditate. No, I'm kidding. Take a
step back and just be honest.

2935
02:05:46,630 --> 02:05:51,630
Be honest that you're wrong, but you have to reach that conclusion yourself, you
know, and be like, look, I was wrong about this and I was wrong about that.

2936
02:05:51,630 --> 02:05:56,630
Not a fake apology or something like that. And that is the thing. He doesn't even
need to go and say it out loud on Twitter.

2937
02:05:56,630 --> 02:06:01,630
He needs to do that with himself, because as soon as you do it yourself, your
behavior changes and it's going to come out.

2938
02:06:01,630 --> 02:06:09,630
So that's the thing. Now, we did say it was wrong about Craig. That's right. And
about hard forks.

2939
02:06:10,630 --> 02:06:18,630
There's a lot of things, man, like almost everything right now he's saying is a lie
of a lie of a lie. So there's a lot of things he has to come.

2940
02:06:18,630 --> 02:06:23,630
But he's saying he doesn't have to do anything and whatever. I don't know if he
needs to do anything or something like that.

2941
02:06:23,630 --> 02:06:31,630
But, you know, he has to do it for this thing. What he needs to understand is that
for himself, not for anyone else.

2942
02:06:32,630 --> 02:06:39,630
Because, again, he's living in some lies there. And, yeah, well, I don't know,
actually, that much, you know, I mean, I don't know.

2943
02:06:39,630 --> 02:06:46,630
Like, what do I know about anything? But if I had to guess, I probably know more
than most people, everyone who will listen to this show, maybe.

2944
02:06:46,630 --> 02:06:54,630
So if I had to guess, I would say that he really thought, you know, he probably
thought that Craig was Satoshi.

2945
02:06:55,630 --> 02:07:06,630
Like around because this was like 2017 when BCH was started. And he thought, you
know, you just like you have all these people telling you that you're right.

2946
02:07:06,630 --> 02:07:12,630
You know, when you're rich, they're always like sucking up to you. Yeah. And so.

2947
02:07:13,630 --> 02:07:19,630
Afraid to contradict you. Right. And so they.

2948
02:07:21,630 --> 02:07:26,630
You know, you just like have this vision in your head, like, oh, I've got Satoshi on
my side. He's going to sell us one million coins.

2949
02:07:27,630 --> 02:07:34,630
You know, and it's going to be like this giant victory. And then it's like year
after year, like month after month, you know.

2950
02:07:35,630 --> 02:07:52,630
But I think. What do you think? Like, I don't know. Like, I have no idea what's
going on with this, but I have noticed and I started tweeting about this, that it's
getting the BCH to BTC price is getting close to 1%, which for me is like, that's
like the death knell, right? Or is it not? I don't know.

2951
02:07:53,630 --> 02:07:55,630
I mean, it's got something has to be the death. There has to be something.

2952
02:07:55,630 --> 02:08:04,630
It will. But I do want to say that I want to thank Roger for that. Thanks for all
the free fish to make a geeky reference here, because boy, those coins were good.

2953
02:08:04,630 --> 02:08:14,630
And let me tell you what, when I showed people I could get coins out of thin air,
they thought I'm a fucking magician when I got them 10%. And I got a cut out of
that. They kicked the bed upstairs.

2954
02:08:14,630 --> 02:08:27,630
So, Roger, thanks for all the free fish, if you're listening by any chance. But
other than that, man, look, this whole Satoshi Crate thing, dude, that's a fucking
IQ test and you fucking failed. And that's on you, motherfucker.

2955
02:08:27,630 --> 02:08:35,630
All right. Look, there's no way when things like this come around with Satoshi and
whatever, you don't touch it with a 10 foot pole. That's what it is, right?

2956
02:08:36,630 --> 02:08:46,630
You have enough information to understand why that could never be the case. And
there's something going on there. And you're either getting on it to fool people or
you run away from it. Simple, simple, son.

2957
02:08:46,630 --> 02:09:00,630
So, yeah. Again, that's the thing. It's not like there's one thing. I'm sure if I
try really hard, maybe I can find a clip of you online where you're disingenuous or
something, but not in a big way, but just because you're human and I'll be like,
Paul, what about this?

2958
02:09:00,630 --> 02:09:14,630
And maybe if I sit you down and I push harder, okay, whatever. And that's fine. But
that's probably one clip out of a hundred or whatever. With Roger, there's not one
clip I can find on there where he wasn't disingenuous. Do you understand the ratio
that's happening there?

2959
02:09:14,630 --> 02:09:15,630
So, again, it's like...

2960
02:09:15,630 --> 02:09:18,630
Not really, but I sort of understand what you're trying to say.

2961
02:09:18,630 --> 02:09:20,630
Well...

2962
02:09:20,630 --> 02:09:25,630
Okay. Okay, let me tell you about this.

2963
02:09:25,630 --> 02:09:34,630
So, I have a name for the episode. Roger Ver washing scenes. This is your confession
episode.

2964
02:09:34,630 --> 02:09:37,630
Didn't I have a better phrase before? Like, whatever.

2965
02:09:37,630 --> 02:09:40,630
I don't know. Go on.

2966
02:09:40,630 --> 02:09:46,630
What I was going to say is when you learn economics, it's like alienating.

2967
02:09:46,630 --> 02:09:49,630
I can't relate to that, but go on. I'll take your word.

2968
02:09:50,630 --> 02:09:55,630
Because you learn all these things, like the minimum wage is actually evil and hurts
the poor.

2969
02:09:55,630 --> 02:10:01,630
And it was invented by trade unions to steal money from people.

2970
02:10:01,630 --> 02:10:09,630
That's a paraphrase, but you learn all these very counterintuitive, bizarre things.

2971
02:10:10,630 --> 02:10:16,630
The more exports you have, the more imports you have, the better everyone is.

2972
02:10:16,630 --> 02:10:21,630
It doesn't really matter. Buy American is a fake thing. All that stuff is fake.

2973
02:10:21,630 --> 02:10:24,630
So, it's very alienating and weird.

2974
02:10:24,630 --> 02:10:29,630
And then with Bitcoin, it's extra weird.

2975
02:10:29,630 --> 02:10:37,630
Every time you're getting rewarded for taking the big risk, everyone thinks they're
wrong.

2976
02:10:38,630 --> 02:10:46,630
By the time you get to the Bitcoin cash hard fork, there's been like six of these in
a row.

2977
02:10:46,630 --> 02:10:52,630
Where it's like, take the big risk, everyone thinks I'm wrong, a trillion dollars.

2978
02:10:52,630 --> 02:10:56,630
I understand that. There's a bias there. I understand that.

2979
02:10:56,630 --> 02:10:58,630
There's a winner's bias somehow.

2980
02:10:58,630 --> 02:11:01,630
So, that's just my explanation.

2981
02:11:01,630 --> 02:11:03,630
I think that is a big component to it.

2982
02:11:03,630 --> 02:11:05,630
But see, this is what I'm trying to tell you, Paul.

2983
02:11:05,630 --> 02:11:11,630
He has a sin. He sinned against himself by not being honest.

2984
02:11:11,630 --> 02:11:13,630
That's the problem. He forgot how to be honest.

2985
02:11:13,630 --> 02:11:16,630
I wonder how miserable he is.

2986
02:11:16,630 --> 02:11:18,630
I don't know.

2987
02:11:18,630 --> 02:11:22,630
I think his life is great, though. I think he's living a movie-style life, if you
ask me.

2988
02:11:22,630 --> 02:11:26,630
No, but that's what I think. I think BCH is making his life miserable.

2989
02:11:26,630 --> 02:11:27,630
That's what I'm saying.

2990
02:11:27,630 --> 02:11:28,630
I think so.

2991
02:11:28,630 --> 02:11:30,630
I don't know if that's the case.

2992
02:11:30,630 --> 02:11:32,630
I don't know.

2993
02:11:32,630 --> 02:11:35,630
We don't know. We don't know anything. We shouldn't even really talk about it,
probably.

2994
02:11:35,630 --> 02:11:39,630
But, it's like, I don't know.

2995
02:11:39,630 --> 02:11:47,630
What I do know, though, is that I like the idea of there being a competitor that
keeps BTC honest.

2996
02:11:47,630 --> 02:11:49,630
And I wish that that competitor actually existed.

2997
02:11:49,630 --> 02:11:55,630
And I would love for it to be a hard fork of BTC, so that I don't even suffer if it
wins.

2998
02:11:55,630 --> 02:11:57,630
I could just hold both coins.

2999
02:11:57,630 --> 02:12:00,630
So, that would be something that I would like.

3000
02:12:00,630 --> 02:12:03,630
Is there a competitor to the Internet?

3001
02:12:03,630 --> 02:12:05,630
I think there is.

3002
02:12:05,630 --> 02:12:10,630
I think all the stuff, radio, newspapers, or whatever, it's not a viable competitor
at all.

3003
02:12:10,630 --> 02:12:13,630
No, no, no. I'm saying, like, that's not a competitor.

3004
02:12:13,630 --> 02:12:15,630
That's like something else that existed before.

3005
02:12:15,630 --> 02:12:17,630
So, the Internet came about.

3006
02:12:17,630 --> 02:12:21,630
And someone said, like, I can make the Internet better, the separate network and
whatever.

3007
02:12:21,630 --> 02:12:23,630
There's no such thing, Paul.

3008
02:12:23,630 --> 02:12:25,630
Because in communication protocols…

3009
02:12:25,630 --> 02:12:27,630
No, I agree. I'm the big network.

3010
02:12:27,630 --> 02:12:29,630
I'm always talking about network effects on Twitter.

3011
02:12:29,630 --> 02:12:30,630
Right.

3012
02:12:30,630 --> 02:12:31,630
You're stealing all my lines.

3013
02:12:31,630 --> 02:12:32,630
What are you talking about?

3014
02:12:32,630 --> 02:12:33,630
I'm just saying…

3015
02:12:33,630 --> 02:12:35,630
No, because it's not…

3016
02:12:35,630 --> 02:12:37,630
I don't think it makes sense to have a competitor.

3017
02:12:37,630 --> 02:12:38,630
That's what I'm trying to tell you.

3018
02:12:38,630 --> 02:12:40,630
I don't think… I don't see an environment…

3019
02:12:40,630 --> 02:12:42,630
But competition is the only, like…

3020
02:12:42,630 --> 02:12:45,630
Bitcoin is not a finished project, like the Internet is.

3021
02:12:45,630 --> 02:12:47,630
No, but dude, no, no, no.

3022
02:12:47,630 --> 02:12:49,630
There's just no, it's like…

3023
02:12:49,630 --> 02:12:52,630
Only through competition can there be real progress.

3024
02:12:52,630 --> 02:12:55,630
Do you agree that Bitcoin is a communication protocol?

3025
02:12:55,630 --> 02:12:57,630
Yes.

3026
02:12:58,630 --> 02:13:03,630
And abstracting on top of that is the concept of value and movement and whatever.

3027
02:13:03,630 --> 02:13:04,630
Okay.

3028
02:13:04,630 --> 02:13:06,630
Now, the thing with communication protocols…

3029
02:13:06,630 --> 02:13:08,630
Yes, they're information.

3030
02:13:08,630 --> 02:13:09,630
So, they have to be one way.

3031
02:13:09,630 --> 02:13:11,630
They can't be if there's some other way.

3032
02:13:11,630 --> 02:13:14,630
Right, and I think this is what a lot of people didn't understand about the hard
fork

3033
02:13:14,630 --> 02:13:17,630
is that the hard fork inherently destroys the whole thing.

3034
02:13:17,630 --> 02:13:19,630
And that's why it's not helpful.

3035
02:13:19,630 --> 02:13:21,630
So, that's why I don't think we're going to have a competitor, Paul.

3036
02:13:21,630 --> 02:13:25,630
Now, I, again, I'm not that technical to understand all the arguments.

3037
02:13:26,630 --> 02:13:28,630
But you could…

3038
02:13:28,630 --> 02:13:34,630
Well, yeah, of course, the hope with sidechains is that the competitors would be
within.

3039
02:13:34,630 --> 02:13:42,630
It would bring that competition into the protocol itself so that it would never
disturb the protocol.

3040
02:13:42,630 --> 02:13:46,630
But there would still be people competing to write the best software, which is what
I think is the best.

3041
02:13:46,630 --> 02:13:49,630
But, so, we don't have that yet.

3042
02:13:50,630 --> 02:13:51,630
But here's the thing.

3043
02:13:51,630 --> 02:13:56,630
I don't think that it's, you know, BTC could lose.

3044
02:13:56,630 --> 02:13:57,630
I don't know.

3045
02:13:57,630 --> 02:13:58,630
It would be hard.

3046
02:13:58,630 --> 02:14:00,630
It's difficult to imagine how.

3047
02:14:00,630 --> 02:14:01,630
But I think…

3048
02:14:01,630 --> 02:14:02,630
I can't…

3049
02:14:02,630 --> 02:14:03,630
It still could.

3050
02:14:03,630 --> 02:14:04,630
I really can't see it, Paul.

3051
02:14:04,630 --> 02:14:05,630
I can't see it.

3052
02:14:05,630 --> 02:14:10,630
And, again, I thought about these things a lot of times over the years, even at the
beginning.

3053
02:14:10,630 --> 02:14:11,630
Now, it doesn't even matter.

3054
02:14:11,630 --> 02:14:13,630
That was too stupid then.

3055
02:14:13,630 --> 02:14:16,630
And even now, more recently, like, I just can't see it.

3056
02:14:16,630 --> 02:14:18,630
I mean, this whole anti-fragile and this whole…

3057
02:14:18,630 --> 02:14:26,630
Look, as much as we make fun of the dick-sucking maximalists on Twitter, the basis
of the arguments, they're really solid.

3058
02:14:26,630 --> 02:14:28,630
And those are the reasons why we're not going to have any of them.

3059
02:14:28,630 --> 02:14:29,630
They're not wrong about that.

3060
02:14:29,630 --> 02:14:33,630
Because those arguments weren't, like, made by the people on Twitter, which we think
are stupid.

3061
02:14:33,630 --> 02:14:34,630
I know, right.

3062
02:14:34,630 --> 02:14:35,630
They were made up.

3063
02:14:35,630 --> 02:14:37,630
They just came up about, like, a science base.

3064
02:14:38,630 --> 02:14:46,630
I hope I am having that moment of clarity and being honest right now and seeing that
there's no way to see – to have a competition.

3065
02:14:46,630 --> 02:14:48,630
You can try, by the way.

3066
02:14:48,630 --> 02:14:50,630
And I think people should.

3067
02:14:50,630 --> 02:14:56,630
I think it is important that people could try and copy Bitcoin because that's how
you know it's open for real.

3068
02:14:56,630 --> 02:14:57,630
But I don't see it, man.

3069
02:14:57,630 --> 02:14:58,630
I don't think it's going to happen.

3070
02:14:58,630 --> 02:15:00,630
Now, I don't know why the dynamics…

3071
02:15:00,630 --> 02:15:02,630
You think people should try but not large block.

3072
02:15:02,630 --> 02:15:04,630
No, no, no, no, no, no.

3073
02:15:04,630 --> 02:15:05,630
Sorry.

3074
02:15:05,630 --> 02:15:06,630
You misunderstood me.

3075
02:15:06,630 --> 02:15:07,630
I think people should try.

3076
02:15:08,630 --> 02:15:10,630
You don't have to support it.

3077
02:15:10,630 --> 02:15:11,630
Any individual competitor.

3078
02:15:11,630 --> 02:15:17,630
But I think, like, if you're at the level we are having this conversation, like, we
have enough information to be like, that's stupid.

3079
02:15:17,630 --> 02:15:18,630
That's what I'm trying to say.

3080
02:15:18,630 --> 02:15:20,630
But people should try whatever they want.

3081
02:15:20,630 --> 02:15:23,630
I think if you say that you shouldn't start your own coin…

3082
02:15:24,630 --> 02:15:25,630
Sorry.

3083
02:15:25,630 --> 02:15:26,630
I had to reach for something.

3084
02:15:26,630 --> 02:15:27,630
Yeah.

3085
02:15:27,630 --> 02:15:31,630
If you say you shouldn't start your own coin, it's like – I was like, no, the thing
you should say is, like, start your own coin.

3086
02:15:31,630 --> 02:15:32,630
But you're going to be stupid and you're going to be crazy.

3087
02:15:32,630 --> 02:15:33,630
But you can't say don't start.

3088
02:15:33,630 --> 02:15:34,630
That's the thing.

3089
02:15:34,630 --> 02:15:35,630
You cannot say that.

3090
02:15:35,630 --> 02:15:43,630
If you're saying that, you're contradicting the idea of Bitcoin because the code is
open source and you're supposed to copy it if you want to or do whatever the fuck
you want with it.

3091
02:15:43,630 --> 02:15:44,630
That's open source.

3092
02:15:44,630 --> 02:15:46,630
So that's why – but that's my stance on that.

3093
02:15:49,630 --> 02:15:50,630
Okay.

3094
02:15:50,630 --> 02:15:51,630
Okay.

3095
02:15:51,630 --> 02:15:57,630
That was a long tangent on – what did you mean, like, piano playing versus guitar
people?

3096
02:15:57,630 --> 02:15:59,630
Piano people versus guitar people.

3097
02:15:59,630 --> 02:16:00,630
That's kind of you and me, I guess.

3098
02:16:00,630 --> 02:16:01,630
But I don't know.

3099
02:16:01,630 --> 02:16:02,630
What are you going to say about that?

3100
02:16:02,630 --> 02:16:03,630
I'm curious.

3101
02:16:04,630 --> 02:16:05,630
Well, okay.

3102
02:16:05,630 --> 02:16:13,630
When you learn to play – as you were talking before about learning to play the
guitar, you just get the guitar and there's this dream and you just do it.

3103
02:16:13,630 --> 02:16:18,630
You have this interaction, intimate reaction, interaction with the guitar.

3104
02:16:18,630 --> 02:16:25,630
But when you learn to play the piano, there's, like, a piano teacher and you have
to, like, learn scales and chords and things.

3105
02:16:25,630 --> 02:16:28,630
And there's, like, a wrong way to play the piano.

3106
02:16:29,630 --> 02:16:43,630
So my theory is that there's, like, the piano people end up like type A
perfectionists who are obsessive and into, like, I don't know all the words.

3107
02:16:43,630 --> 02:16:52,630
But the guitar people are more, like, freewheeling and more fun maybe, but maybe
less reliable.

3108
02:16:52,630 --> 02:16:55,630
And so that's my thing about that.

3109
02:16:55,630 --> 02:16:57,630
And you play the guitar and I play the piano.

3110
02:16:57,630 --> 02:16:59,630
Well, let me tell you what, though.

3111
02:16:59,630 --> 02:17:03,630
I think that – do you know who Jerry Lee Lewis is?

3112
02:17:03,630 --> 02:17:07,630
Yes, but I'm blanking on the person.

3113
02:17:07,630 --> 02:17:11,630
Jerry Lee Lewis is the guy who has the song Goodness, Gracious, Great Boast of
Heart.

3114
02:17:11,630 --> 02:17:13,630
He's the original king of boogie.

3115
02:17:13,630 --> 02:17:19,630
Now, the thing is, like, fun fact about him, he married his first cousin while she
was a minor and he was really old.

3116
02:17:19,630 --> 02:17:20,630
Fun fact, kids.

3117
02:17:20,630 --> 02:17:25,630
And by the way, Chuck Berry, a bit of rock and roll trivia for you, he was a fucking
weirdo.

3118
02:17:25,630 --> 02:17:30,630
He used to spy on women taking P.E. in his room.

3119
02:17:30,630 --> 02:17:31,630
Anyway, let's get back on track.

3120
02:17:31,630 --> 02:17:36,630
So the thing is, like, I don't think that's what you said is true.

3121
02:17:36,630 --> 02:17:41,630
That's not a distinction between piano and guitar people because Jerry Lee Lewis
didn't have a teacher.

3122
02:17:41,630 --> 02:17:43,630
There are a lot of people who never had a teacher.

3123
02:17:43,630 --> 02:17:51,630
And there's so many people that I know with a guitar that never – that had a teacher
and they played the classical music into death.

3124
02:17:51,630 --> 02:17:54,630
I don't think the distinction is between guitar and piano.

3125
02:17:54,630 --> 02:17:56,630
I think the distinction – there's some other distinction.

3126
02:17:56,630 --> 02:17:58,630
And some people are like –

3127
02:17:58,630 --> 02:17:59,630
I'm just throwing it out there.

3128
02:17:59,630 --> 02:18:06,630
Because I'm imagining, like, practicing the scales and you have, like, an older
person looking over you, play these scales.

3129
02:18:06,630 --> 02:18:08,630
And I'm like – I don't know.

3130
02:18:08,630 --> 02:18:10,630
With the guitar, they just go right to the chords.

3131
02:18:10,630 --> 02:18:13,630
You play your four chords, you're playing a song, you're having fun, like, 20
minutes in.

3132
02:18:13,630 --> 02:18:15,630
That's not really true.

3133
02:18:15,630 --> 02:18:18,630
I started playing guitar by myself, but at some point I went to this teacher, right?

3134
02:18:18,630 --> 02:18:20,630
There was this place where you could learn.

3135
02:18:20,630 --> 02:18:23,630
And I was lucky because I got this really cool teacher.

3136
02:18:23,630 --> 02:18:25,630
He was, like, the greatest guy.

3137
02:18:25,630 --> 02:18:26,630
He used to make jokes.

3138
02:18:26,630 --> 02:18:27,630
He used to give us alcohol to drink.

3139
02:18:27,630 --> 02:18:29,630
And we were still underage, by the way.

3140
02:18:29,630 --> 02:18:31,630
He would tell us how he used to fuck women.

3141
02:18:31,630 --> 02:18:33,630
It was a super nice guy.

3142
02:18:33,630 --> 02:18:34,630
I see.

3143
02:18:34,630 --> 02:18:36,630
And you modeled your life after him.

3144
02:18:36,630 --> 02:18:37,630
No, no, no.

3145
02:18:37,630 --> 02:18:39,630
But there were other teachers.

3146
02:18:39,630 --> 02:18:40,630
I was crazy even for that.

3147
02:18:40,630 --> 02:18:43,630
But there were other teachers that were doing exactly the thing you were saying,
even at guitar.

3148
02:18:43,630 --> 02:18:47,630
Now, for whatever reason, again, I also knew how to play before that.

3149
02:18:47,630 --> 02:18:50,630
And that's why he was, like, okay with me, like, slacking out.

3150
02:18:50,630 --> 02:18:52,630
But the other people will start from zero.

3151
02:18:52,630 --> 02:18:53,630
So, I don't know.

3152
02:18:53,630 --> 02:18:54,630
I guess it depends how you get exposed to it.

3153
02:18:54,630 --> 02:18:55,630
But let me tell you what.

3154
02:18:55,630 --> 02:18:57,630
It was the same thing with math, though.

3155
02:18:57,630 --> 02:19:02,630
When I started learning math by myself, I liked it so much.

3156
02:19:02,630 --> 02:19:04,630
I couldn't be more happy about anything else.

3157
02:19:04,630 --> 02:19:08,630
And then when I went to school and whatever, I didn't like it anymore, man.

3158
02:19:08,630 --> 02:19:13,630
And then there was a period after high school where I started, like, learning it by
myself.

3159
02:19:13,630 --> 02:19:15,630
So, I think you can do that with almost everything.

3160
02:19:15,630 --> 02:19:18,630
And you have to find that teacher.

3161
02:19:18,630 --> 02:19:19,630
I haven't had teachers.

3162
02:19:19,630 --> 02:19:20,630
Lost a lesson, dude.

3163
02:19:21,630 --> 02:19:26,630
I just want to say, we haven't cracked the thing on how to best teach children.

3164
02:19:26,630 --> 02:19:29,630
Because it seems like the schools don't do a good job.

3165
02:19:29,630 --> 02:19:35,630
But it also seems like a lot of people, left to their own devices, don't.

3166
02:19:35,630 --> 02:19:39,630
I think children need some structure and direction.

3167
02:19:39,630 --> 02:19:42,630
You know, the U.S. public school system is not.

3168
02:19:42,630 --> 02:19:44,630
I have the best story for this.

3169
02:19:44,630 --> 02:19:45,630
I don't know.

3170
02:19:45,630 --> 02:19:47,630
We haven't quite figured it out as a society.

3171
02:19:47,630 --> 02:19:49,630
What we currently do isn't very good.

3172
02:19:49,630 --> 02:19:50,630
That's very true.

3173
02:19:50,630 --> 02:19:53,630
But let me tell you when I really liked learning stuff.

3174
02:19:53,630 --> 02:19:55,630
So, I'm really good at math.

3175
02:19:55,630 --> 02:19:56,630
I get into high school.

3176
02:19:56,630 --> 02:19:58,630
They teach us Borland-Paschal.

3177
02:19:58,630 --> 02:19:59,630
I don't know if you've ever used Borland-Paschal.

3178
02:19:59,630 --> 02:20:01,630
It has begin and end and colon.

3179
02:20:01,630 --> 02:20:03,630
Anyway, terrible language.

3180
02:20:03,630 --> 02:20:05,630
And Borland-Paschal didn't even have N64.

3181
02:20:05,630 --> 02:20:07,630
Anyway, that was a crazy thing.

3182
02:20:07,630 --> 02:20:09,630
So, I started learning those things.

3183
02:20:09,630 --> 02:20:10,630
And it was very interesting.

3184
02:20:10,630 --> 02:20:12,630
And then I started going to the Olympiads.

3185
02:20:12,630 --> 02:20:16,630
And all the people that I worked with, smart people, no one was fun there.

3186
02:20:16,630 --> 02:20:17,630
That really baffled me.

3187
02:20:17,630 --> 02:20:18,630
Because you can never make jokes with them.

3188
02:20:18,630 --> 02:20:19,630
They wouldn't smoke.

3189
02:20:19,630 --> 02:20:20,630
They wouldn't drink.

3190
02:20:20,630 --> 02:20:21,630
They wouldn't do anything.

3191
02:20:21,630 --> 02:20:22,630
I'm the craziest kid there.

3192
02:20:22,630 --> 02:20:27,630
But there's this one kid, which everyone talked about, who was fucking nuts.

3193
02:20:27,630 --> 02:20:31,630
By the way, this was like this 18-year-old kid who was ripped, literally ripped.

3194
02:20:31,630 --> 02:20:34,630
He talked like he was from the hood.

3195
02:20:34,630 --> 02:20:39,630
But he was acing any scientific thing you could talk about, right?

3196
02:20:39,630 --> 02:20:41,630
And I heard about this guy.

3197
02:20:41,630 --> 02:20:44,630
And somehow, for some circumstance, we both go to the same contest.

3198
02:20:44,630 --> 02:20:47,630
And I walk up to him and I was like, his name was Popescu, like Misha.

3199
02:20:47,630 --> 02:20:48,630
And I go like…

3200
02:20:48,630 --> 02:20:49,630
It probably was him.

3201
02:20:49,630 --> 02:20:50,630
No, it wasn't him.

3202
02:20:50,630 --> 02:20:51,630
It wasn't him 100%.

3203
02:20:51,630 --> 02:20:55,630
And I go like, dude, I heard you're a crazy motherfucker and you drink and whatever,

3204
02:20:55,630 --> 02:20:56,630
but you're also smart.

3205
02:20:56,630 --> 02:20:58,630
And he's like, yeah, what is the deal?

3206
02:20:58,630 --> 02:21:00,630
I was like, I want to be your friend.

3207
02:21:00,630 --> 02:21:02,630
And we became friends ever since then.

3208
02:21:02,630 --> 02:21:03,630
We went to the same college.

3209
02:21:03,630 --> 02:21:04,630
But here's the thing about this guy.

3210
02:21:04,630 --> 02:21:10,630
At that contest, dude, he would teach us all kinds of stupid algorithms, like
Dijkstra

3211
02:21:10,630 --> 02:21:11,630
and all those things.

3212
02:21:11,630 --> 02:21:12,630
But he would do it in a fun way.

3213
02:21:12,630 --> 02:21:14,630
He would always relate to going to fuck a hooker.

3214
02:21:14,630 --> 02:21:16,630
Or he would always relate to like…

3215
02:21:16,630 --> 02:21:20,630
He would say Euler invented the graphs because he wanted to fuck more hookers.

3216
02:21:20,630 --> 02:21:22,630
He would always be something sexual.

3217
02:21:22,630 --> 02:21:23,630
And he was always fun.

3218
02:21:23,630 --> 02:21:26,630
And you would go on the street and he would pick up chicks.

3219
02:21:26,630 --> 02:21:28,630
But then he would start talking about binary search.

3220
02:21:28,630 --> 02:21:29,630
It was crazy.

3221
02:21:29,630 --> 02:21:31,630
Like, you wouldn't want to get away from this guy.

3222
02:21:31,630 --> 02:21:33,630
He was so crazy.

3223
02:21:33,630 --> 02:21:38,630
And that's when I actually fell in love in computers because I was like, shit, I
want

3224
02:21:38,630 --> 02:21:39,630
to be like this guy.

3225
02:21:39,630 --> 02:21:40,630
He was my friend for a lot of years.

3226
02:21:41,630 --> 02:21:42,630
We were in the dorm rooms and…

3227
02:21:42,630 --> 02:21:46,630
Oh, he's the first guy who told me you should do a business because we would have
these

3228
02:21:46,630 --> 02:21:48,630
science assignments, you know, and we would load Linux.

3229
02:21:48,630 --> 02:21:51,630
And he would come into my room and he would break the door open.

3230
02:21:51,630 --> 02:21:52,630
He would, like, smoke a cigarette.

3231
02:21:52,630 --> 02:21:55,630
He would be fuming because he's like…

3232
02:21:55,630 --> 02:21:59,630
He would start fuming and he would be like, why are all these people starting the
business

3233
02:21:59,630 --> 02:22:00,630
and why we're not?

3234
02:22:00,630 --> 02:22:01,630
And he would get mad about it.

3235
02:22:01,630 --> 02:22:05,630
And he would rattle me up about, we need to start our own company and do those
things.

3236
02:22:05,630 --> 02:22:07,630
And then he would do this.

3237
02:22:07,630 --> 02:22:09,630
He would start weird conversations.

3238
02:22:09,630 --> 02:22:13,630
He would be like, why don't we have wheels instead of legs?

3239
02:22:13,630 --> 02:22:15,630
And he would always talk about all these weird things.

3240
02:22:15,630 --> 02:22:16,630
And I learned a lot from that guy.

3241
02:22:16,630 --> 02:22:18,630
And that was the best thing.

3242
02:22:18,630 --> 02:22:20,630
I learned so much from that dude.

3243
02:22:20,630 --> 02:22:24,630
And that was the most enjoyable thing I ever learned anything about computer
science.

3244
02:22:24,630 --> 02:22:27,630
So that's how I think anyone, everyone should do it.

3245
02:22:27,630 --> 02:22:29,630
Not the same style like that.

3246
02:22:29,630 --> 02:22:30,630
It's not for everyone.

3247
02:22:30,630 --> 02:22:33,630
But it has to be in this very relaxed way.

3248
02:22:33,630 --> 02:22:35,630
And again, it's like, it's always a story.

3249
02:22:35,630 --> 02:22:36,630
It's always fun.

3250
02:22:36,630 --> 02:22:37,630
It's always real.

3251
02:22:37,630 --> 02:22:39,630
It's like the same thing Feynman did.

3252
02:22:39,630 --> 02:22:40,630
There's always a back story.

3253
02:22:40,630 --> 02:22:41,630
There's always some.

3254
02:22:41,630 --> 02:22:45,630
Definitely the fun criterion is important.

3255
02:22:45,630 --> 02:22:46,630
Yeah.

3256
02:22:46,630 --> 02:22:48,630
And yeah, there's a great video about this.

3257
02:22:48,630 --> 02:22:52,630
We can maybe link to one of my favorite people, David Deutsch.

3258
02:22:52,630 --> 02:22:54,630
He does a better job of explaining it.

3259
02:22:54,630 --> 02:23:00,630
But I can maybe try to put my own spin on it, which is that.

3260
02:23:00,630 --> 02:23:04,630
Well, there's a lot of things about fun that I think are interesting.

3261
02:23:04,630 --> 02:23:08,630
One is that the fun is only loyal to you.

3262
02:23:08,630 --> 02:23:14,630
So like if you're having fun, you know that you're not doing something for someone
else.

3263
02:23:14,630 --> 02:23:20,630
Which is, it's harder than it looks to figure out why you're doing things, I think.

3264
02:23:20,630 --> 02:23:22,630
So the fun criterion helps with that.

3265
02:23:22,630 --> 02:23:26,630
But fun also is.

3266
02:23:26,630 --> 02:23:31,630
It's kind of like all the pieces are working together.

3267
02:23:31,630 --> 02:23:36,630
So you have a lot of what are called these inexplicit theories.

3268
02:23:36,630 --> 02:23:38,630
Theories that you can't talk about, but you're aware of them.

3269
02:23:38,630 --> 02:23:41,630
You just don't have the right word.

3270
02:23:41,630 --> 02:23:44,630
It's like how you know how to ride a bike.

3271
02:23:44,630 --> 02:23:46,630
You ride a bike.

3272
02:23:46,630 --> 02:23:52,630
A lot of it is just that if the bike is moving forward, you can correct by changing
the steering if it's leaning too far to one side.

3273
02:23:52,630 --> 02:23:56,630
But people don't like intuitively articulate that with words.

3274
02:23:56,630 --> 02:24:00,630
They just kind of know how to ride a bike without knowing any language or anything.

3275
02:24:00,630 --> 02:24:08,630
But there are also subconscious theories that you feel, you have feelings, but you
don't even really aware of it in time.

3276
02:24:08,630 --> 02:24:11,630
Until you've been feeling it for like five or six minutes.

3277
02:24:11,630 --> 02:24:13,630
And it was subconscious before.

3278
02:24:13,630 --> 02:24:17,630
And then it only becomes, you only become consciously aware.

3279
02:24:17,630 --> 02:24:19,630
Oh, I'm feeling really irritated.

3280
02:24:19,630 --> 02:24:20,630
I'm in a bad mood.

3281
02:24:20,630 --> 02:24:21,630
I'm hungry.

3282
02:24:21,630 --> 02:24:22,630
You don't realize until later.

3283
02:24:22,630 --> 02:24:23,630
I'm horny.

3284
02:24:23,630 --> 02:24:24,630
Yeah.

3285
02:24:24,630 --> 02:24:25,630
Yeah.

3286
02:24:26,630 --> 02:24:31,630
And fun is like when all this is in alignment.

3287
02:24:31,630 --> 02:24:38,630
Fun is a key that there's nothing broken in the circuit in your brain.

3288
02:24:38,630 --> 02:24:42,630
All the things that you believe in are trying to do.

3289
02:24:42,630 --> 02:24:44,630
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, actually.

3290
02:24:44,630 --> 02:24:45,630
Yeah.

3291
02:24:46,630 --> 02:24:49,630
People just think of fun as like a nice thing to experience.

3292
02:24:49,630 --> 02:24:55,630
But fun is actually a clue about how you should live your life.

3293
02:24:55,630 --> 02:24:57,630
It sounds kind of weird when you put it like that.

3294
02:24:57,630 --> 02:25:01,630
But think about it with Richard Feynman and these other people.

3295
02:25:01,630 --> 02:25:03,630
If something isn't fun, you shouldn't do it anymore.

3296
02:25:03,630 --> 02:25:05,630
But there's some reason why it's not fun.

3297
02:25:05,630 --> 02:25:06,630
Your brain will know.

3298
02:25:06,630 --> 02:25:09,630
And the reason doesn't have to be explicit.

3299
02:25:09,630 --> 02:25:11,630
You don't have to articulate it.

3300
02:25:11,630 --> 02:25:14,630
It's very worrisome sometimes to try to articulate everything.

3301
02:25:15,630 --> 02:25:16,630
Yeah.

3302
02:25:16,630 --> 02:25:20,630
I think a lot of your theories don't involve words.

3303
02:25:20,630 --> 02:25:23,630
So when people ask you to explain why you do this, why you do that,

3304
02:25:23,630 --> 02:25:25,630
you don't always know how.

3305
02:25:25,630 --> 02:25:30,630
Because almost everything that you know is not explicit.

3306
02:25:30,630 --> 02:25:33,630
And a lot of it is not even conscious.

3307
02:25:33,630 --> 02:25:35,630
You don't even know why you do these things.

3308
02:25:35,630 --> 02:25:37,630
Your brain knows why, but you don't know why.

3309
02:25:37,630 --> 02:25:39,630
I'm so happy you said this.

3310
02:25:39,630 --> 02:25:42,630
Because I'm okay with sharing this.

3311
02:25:42,630 --> 02:25:46,630
I was in a meeting with David Deutsch.

3312
02:25:46,630 --> 02:25:48,630
I closed down my company last week.

3313
02:25:48,630 --> 02:25:51,630
And it was exactly like that.

3314
02:25:51,630 --> 02:25:53,630
I couldn't articulate it.

3315
02:25:53,630 --> 02:25:54,630
I did afterwards rationalize it.

3316
02:25:54,630 --> 02:25:56,630
But I was like, I need to stop this right now.

3317
02:25:56,630 --> 02:25:58,630
In the video, sure.

3318
02:25:58,630 --> 02:25:59,630
It's not like 20 minutes.

3319
02:25:59,630 --> 02:26:00,630
It's great.

3320
02:26:00,630 --> 02:26:01,630
Everyone should watch it.

3321
02:26:01,630 --> 02:26:03,630
And David Deutsch has the nameless dread.

3322
02:26:03,630 --> 02:26:08,630
You feel the nameless dread.

3323
02:26:09,630 --> 02:26:10,630
Oh, my God.

3324
02:26:10,630 --> 02:26:11,630
Exactly.

3325
02:26:11,630 --> 02:26:13,630
But he was trying to say, you don't know.

3326
02:26:13,630 --> 02:26:17,630
Sometimes you don't know.

3327
02:26:17,630 --> 02:26:20,630
Okay, maybe this post office was further than I thought.

3328
02:26:20,630 --> 02:26:22,630
And it's going to be closed by the time I get there.

3329
02:26:22,630 --> 02:26:24,630
So should you go faster?

3330
02:26:24,630 --> 02:26:26,630
Or maybe it was a mistake to go to the post office.

3331
02:26:26,630 --> 02:26:27,630
Should I turn around?

3332
02:26:27,630 --> 02:26:29,630
You don't know what to do.

3333
02:26:29,630 --> 02:26:33,630
But he's saying when you're having fun, you know that you have nailed it.

3334
02:26:33,630 --> 02:26:35,630
100%.

3335
02:26:35,630 --> 02:26:36,630
I did all of that for the last year of my life.

3336
02:26:36,630 --> 02:26:37,630
And I couldn't tell why.

3337
02:26:37,630 --> 02:26:39,630
And I was trying to fix it with different reasons.

3338
02:26:39,630 --> 02:26:40,630
That's 100%.

3339
02:26:40,630 --> 02:26:41,630
But you know what?

3340
02:26:41,630 --> 02:26:43,630
I like the way you phrased it at the beginning.

3341
02:26:43,630 --> 02:26:45,630
I think that's such a good way to put it.

3342
02:26:45,630 --> 02:26:48,630
It's like when you're having fun, you're doing something for yourself.

3343
02:26:48,630 --> 02:26:50,630
I think that's the most important thing if we could point one out.

3344
02:26:50,630 --> 02:26:55,630
Because a lot of times when you go to school, man, your parents tell you to go
there.

3345
02:26:55,630 --> 02:27:01,630
And they're not telling you to learn math because it's cool to understand reality
and map it and do these things.

3346
02:27:02,630 --> 02:27:05,630
And they told you go there because you need to get a job or something.

3347
02:27:05,630 --> 02:27:07,630
So I think that's really important.

3348
02:27:07,630 --> 02:27:09,630
You have to do it for yourself somehow.

3349
02:27:09,630 --> 02:27:12,630
That's where the fun begins at least, you know?

3350
02:27:12,630 --> 02:27:14,630
Yeah.

3351
02:27:14,630 --> 02:27:21,630
Everything else.

3352
02:27:21,630 --> 02:27:23,630
Yeah, because there's a lot of things that motivate you.

3353
02:27:23,630 --> 02:27:33,630
And it's hard to figure out what they are, honestly.

3354
02:27:33,630 --> 02:27:36,630
Yeah, I agree.

3355
02:27:36,630 --> 02:27:38,630
You mostly don't know why you do certain things.

3356
02:27:38,630 --> 02:27:41,630
Yeah.

3357
02:27:41,630 --> 02:27:42,630
I don't know.

3358
02:27:42,630 --> 02:27:46,630
I think that goes to this whole, like, you know, self-exploration.

3359
02:27:46,630 --> 02:27:49,630
And every time you hear that, it's like kind of an ooey context.

3360
02:27:49,630 --> 02:27:52,630
But it's hard to really know what you want to do.

3361
02:27:52,630 --> 02:27:55,630
But you have to go on this path and somehow figure it out.

3362
02:27:55,630 --> 02:27:57,630
But, yeah, I don't know.

3363
02:27:57,630 --> 02:28:00,630
I still think, like, it's not necessarily specifically about what it is.

3364
02:28:00,630 --> 02:28:03,630
It's not like, oh, you need to play guitar or piano.

3365
02:28:03,630 --> 02:28:05,630
It's, oh, you need to play music.

3366
02:28:05,630 --> 02:28:07,630
But you have to, like, be comfortable about it.

3367
02:28:07,630 --> 02:28:09,630
I've always was made to play guitar.

3368
02:28:09,630 --> 02:28:12,630
Probably even if I would have played drums, it would have been roughly the same
thing, you know?

3369
02:28:12,630 --> 02:28:17,630
I think there's also that aspect of it sometimes.

3370
02:28:17,630 --> 02:28:23,630
What about that guy, the jacked guy who was all the math and the hooker
explanations?

3371
02:28:23,630 --> 02:28:24,630
What about him?

3372
02:28:24,630 --> 02:28:26,630
Guitar, piano, or nothing.

3373
02:28:26,630 --> 02:28:27,630
He never played an instrument.

3374
02:28:27,630 --> 02:28:29,630
But here's the thing with him.

3375
02:28:29,630 --> 02:28:33,630
He, as much as crazy as he was, by the way, he was my best friend for a long time.

3376
02:28:33,630 --> 02:28:34,630
Because we hang out almost every day.

3377
02:28:34,630 --> 02:28:36,630
And he was my idol.

3378
02:28:36,630 --> 02:28:37,630
He seems like a cool guy, yeah.

3379
02:28:37,630 --> 02:28:38,630
He's really cool.

3380
02:28:38,630 --> 02:28:40,630
And he was so smart.

3381
02:28:40,630 --> 02:28:47,630
But when it came the moment to quit college and he was like, okay, now all this
thing that I'm seeing, fuck this.

3382
02:28:47,630 --> 02:28:48,630
I'm going to take the biggest risk.

3383
02:28:48,630 --> 02:28:52,630
I'm going to disappoint everyone in my fucking life because I know this is bullshit.

3384
02:28:52,630 --> 02:28:54,630
He couldn't do that.

3385
02:28:54,630 --> 02:28:56,630
He stayed in college and got a job.

3386
02:28:56,630 --> 02:28:57,630
Interesting.

3387
02:28:57,630 --> 02:28:59,630
So, and again, it's like.

3388
02:28:59,630 --> 02:29:02,630
But it was a good job though, right?

3389
02:29:02,630 --> 02:29:06,630
I mean, everyone who finished computer science in Romania earned, like, a lot of
money.

3390
02:29:06,630 --> 02:29:08,630
Most of the guys I hang out with worked at Google.

3391
02:29:08,630 --> 02:29:11,630
So, it's not like, again, they probably have good lives right now.

3392
02:29:11,630 --> 02:29:16,630
But I can promise you they're not fulfilled and they don't feel happy about it.

3393
02:29:16,630 --> 02:29:17,630
I don't know this guy.

3394
02:29:17,630 --> 02:29:18,630
I didn't talk with him in a long time.

3395
02:29:18,630 --> 02:29:20,630
Maybe I should try to connect with him.

3396
02:29:20,630 --> 02:29:29,630
Yeah, but it's possible that many of them spend zero minutes per week thinking about
crypto Twitter.

3397
02:29:29,630 --> 02:29:30,630
You know what the thing is?

3398
02:29:30,630 --> 02:29:32,630
Like, I think about this often.

3399
02:29:32,630 --> 02:29:37,630
Like, dude, when I got into Bitcoin, literally, if you ever talk with me more than
five minutes, you got Bitcoin from me.

3400
02:29:37,630 --> 02:29:38,630
Think about that.

3401
02:29:38,630 --> 02:29:39,630
That's how crazy I was, right?

3402
02:29:39,630 --> 02:29:43,630
So, everyone in college almost got Bitcoin from me at some point in their life.

3403
02:29:43,630 --> 02:29:46,630
And everyone knew this was the thing because you see how crazy I get about
something.

3404
02:29:46,630 --> 02:29:48,630
And this was like a part of my life.

3405
02:29:48,630 --> 02:29:49,630
Yes, you are crazy.

3406
02:29:49,630 --> 02:29:53,630
So, you have to imagine that right now when this Bitcoin thing is going on.

3407
02:29:53,630 --> 02:29:55,630
I think everyone remembers me right now.

3408
02:29:55,630 --> 02:29:57,630
I wonder why that fucking cucksucker.

3409
02:29:57,630 --> 02:30:06,630
Yeah, I also wonder, like, don't you ever wonder about, like, I mean, everyone must
wonder about, like, resentment or whatever, you know?

3410
02:30:06,630 --> 02:30:08,630
Don't you ever wonder about that?

3411
02:30:08,630 --> 02:30:12,630
Like, do people hate you because you were into Bitcoin and you...

3412
02:30:12,630 --> 02:30:14,630
I mean, yikes.

3413
02:30:14,630 --> 02:30:15,630
I have...

3414
02:30:15,630 --> 02:30:16,630
You didn't do anything wrong.

3415
02:30:16,630 --> 02:30:19,630
You just discovered Bitcoin and you're like, this is great.

3416
02:30:19,630 --> 02:30:20,630
I don't know if...

3417
02:30:20,630 --> 02:30:23,630
And then people don't believe you because, of course, it's crazy to abandon...

3418
02:30:23,630 --> 02:30:28,630
Monetary systems is, like, absurd on its face.

3419
02:30:28,630 --> 02:30:32,630
And there's no way they could know that it might actually be possible.

3420
02:30:32,630 --> 02:30:34,630
Most people don't know anything about the current...

3421
02:30:34,630 --> 02:30:39,630
The way, you know, the U.S. dollar works or the U.S. banking system works at all.

3422
02:30:39,630 --> 02:30:41,630
So, of course, I think it's crazy.

3423
02:30:41,630 --> 02:30:43,630
And I think you're going to be trying to pay...

3424
02:30:43,630 --> 02:30:46,630
You're going to be on a date trying to pay with Bitcoin.

3425
02:30:46,630 --> 02:30:47,630
It's going to be humiliating.

3426
02:30:47,630 --> 02:30:49,630
That's the image that people have in their mind.

3427
02:30:49,630 --> 02:30:51,630
Yeah, I...

3428
02:30:51,630 --> 02:30:55,630
And then you have to make all this money, more money than they'll ever have in their
entire life.

3429
02:30:55,630 --> 02:31:01,630
Yeah, the thing is with those things, like, I don't keep contact with almost no one
back home or whatever.

3430
02:31:01,630 --> 02:31:03,630
I don't even consider it home.

3431
02:31:03,630 --> 02:31:05,630
But I don't think they resent me.

3432
02:31:05,630 --> 02:31:06,630
I don't think...

3433
02:31:06,630 --> 02:31:08,630
I think there are other reasons probably people resented me.

3434
02:31:08,630 --> 02:31:12,630
And it was just because it was direct or very straight where I would say things how
they are, like...

3435
02:31:12,630 --> 02:31:13,630
And sometimes I just...

3436
02:31:13,630 --> 02:31:15,630
That's why I think people resent me from college.

3437
02:31:15,630 --> 02:31:17,630
But I don't think anyone resents me out of that because I...

3438
02:31:17,630 --> 02:31:18,630
All of us...

3439
02:31:18,630 --> 02:31:19,630
I think...

3440
02:31:19,630 --> 02:31:20,630
I hope not.

3441
02:31:20,630 --> 02:31:24,630
But I always worked hard and always took this amount, big amount of risk.

3442
02:31:24,630 --> 02:31:25,630
And they...

3443
02:31:25,630 --> 02:31:30,630
And, like, when there were times when I didn't have where to sleep or something or
didn't have money to eat food for a week or something.

3444
02:31:30,630 --> 02:31:32,630
They had shelter and whatever.

3445
02:31:32,630 --> 02:31:36,630
So I think it's hard for them to resent me because whenever I was my kind of...

3446
02:31:36,630 --> 02:31:39,630
They were in such a better position than me all the time, you know?

3447
02:31:39,630 --> 02:31:41,630
So I don't think they had anything to resent.

3448
02:31:41,630 --> 02:31:43,630
Or maybe even more they would resent me now.

3449
02:31:43,630 --> 02:31:54,630
Because you're just like a crazy person who's one minute living high and the next
minute being crushed under the wheel of fortune.

3450
02:31:54,630 --> 02:31:55,630
I don't think it was ever like that.

3451
02:31:55,630 --> 02:31:57,630
It was just that...

3452
02:31:57,630 --> 02:31:58,630
I don't know.

3453
02:31:58,630 --> 02:31:59,630
I don't know.

3454
02:31:59,630 --> 02:32:00,630
It wasn't, like, from minute to minute.

3455
02:32:00,630 --> 02:32:02,630
But there were, like, very high and lows.

3456
02:32:02,630 --> 02:32:03,630
Yeah.

3457
02:32:03,630 --> 02:32:04,630
Cool.

3458
02:32:04,630 --> 02:32:05,630
Great.

3459
02:32:05,630 --> 02:32:06,630
All right.

3460
02:32:06,630 --> 02:32:07,630
This is a wrap then.

3461
02:32:07,630 --> 02:32:08,630
Oh.

3462
02:32:08,630 --> 02:32:10,630
This has gone for a while.

3463
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:11,630
Yeah.

3464
02:32:11,630 --> 02:32:12,630
So, anyway.

3465
02:32:12,630 --> 02:32:17,630
Don't forget to try to find the tweet and retweet and get them likes.

3466
02:32:17,630 --> 02:32:20,630
Smash that like button and all the stuff.

3467
02:32:20,630 --> 02:32:22,630
Because you get the fucking signed stuff.

3468
02:32:22,630 --> 02:32:24,630
It's signed by those famous people.

3469
02:32:24,630 --> 02:32:26,630
And it has my name on it.

3470
02:32:26,630 --> 02:32:29,630
Double.

3471
02:32:29,630 --> 02:32:30,630
Double penetration.

3472
02:32:30,630 --> 02:32:31,630
Yeah.

3473
02:32:31,630 --> 02:32:32,630
Double penetration.

3474
02:32:32,630 --> 02:32:34,630
And Paul is going to pay for the shipment.

3475
02:32:34,630 --> 02:32:36,630
I will pay for the shipment.

3476
02:32:36,630 --> 02:32:38,630
And we'll do it in a convoluted Bitcoin way.

3477
02:32:38,630 --> 02:32:41,630
Whatever convoluted Bitcoin way you can find.

3478
02:32:41,630 --> 02:32:49,630
We're probably going to hire one of those hookers to be chained with a book on her
back and knock at your door or something and deliver it in her mouth or something.

3479
02:32:49,630 --> 02:32:54,630
Like, pull a cart that has this stuff in the back.

3480
02:32:54,630 --> 02:32:55,630
Okay.

3481
02:32:55,630 --> 02:32:56,630
Anyway.

3482
02:32:56,630 --> 02:32:57,630
Until next time, motherfuckers.

3483
02:32:57,630 --> 02:32:59,630
Fuck all the hookers.

3484
02:32:59,630 --> 02:33:00,630
Do all the drugs.

3485
02:33:00,630 --> 02:33:01,630
Sell your coins.

3486
02:33:01,630 --> 02:33:03,630
Be on a religious person.

3487
02:33:03,630 --> 02:33:05,630
And keep slinging big.

3488
02:33:05,630 --> 02:33:06,630
Yeah.

3489
02:33:06,630 --> 02:33:08,630
And don't think about Bitcoin.

3490
02:33:08,630 --> 02:33:11,630
Don't tell your friends about Bitcoin.

3491
02:33:11,630 --> 02:33:13,630
Don't tell anyone that you own Bitcoin.

3492
02:33:13,630 --> 02:33:16,630
Just buy Bitcoin and don't do anything else.

3493
02:33:16,630 --> 02:33:18,630
That's a wrap.