1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,200 This is what we do for Lightning in Japan. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:09,360 So yeah, it's a little bit faster than I thought. 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,480 But I have like four minutes, but that's about it. 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:13,600 So thank you. 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:14,240 Thank you. 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,120 Thank you, Mr. Koji Higashi, for your inspiring keynote. 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:18,000 Thank you very much. 8 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:33,440 Next up, may I invite Mr. Obinosu, CEO of Fedi, to deliver a keynote on Fediman and Fedi. 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:45,840 Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in giving a round of applause to Mr. Obinosu. 10 00:00:48,000 --> 00:01:00,240 Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for having me. 11 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:08,720 So my name is Obinosu, and previously I was the CEO and co-founder of the UK's longest 12 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,200 running Bitcoin exchange. 13 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,960 In fact, it was one of Europe's longest running Bitcoin exchanges. 14 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:26,000 Now I am one of the co-founders of Fedi, and Fedi exists to accelerate adoption of FediMint, 15 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,040 which is a powerful layer-free scaling solution for Bitcoin. 16 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:37,200 Now, you may not have heard of FediMint at the moment, but I can guarantee you that will 17 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,320 change over the coming months, and I'll explain why. 18 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Now, many people think there are a number of challenges in Bitcoin, or with Bitcoin. 19 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,000 There are perceived challenges. 20 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,160 One is there is a challenge around extensibility. 21 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:59,200 People think that Bitcoin cannot be used for DeFi or smart contracts. 22 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:01,280 The second is custody. 23 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,280 Now, we know with all cryptocurrencies, we can use hardware wallets and software wallets, 24 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:12,160 but the protocol itself doesn't have inbuilt support for custody, like some alternative 25 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,720 currencies like Filecoin. 26 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,960 The third is scalability. 27 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,200 There's this much-held understanding that Bitcoin is slow, it can only do a few transactions 28 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:28,080 per second, and even with the Lightning Network, which allows for low-cost, super-fast transactions, 29 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:34,960 people still feel that it cannot scale to billions of users using the Bitcoin network. 30 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,800 And finally, Bitcoin provides a reasonable level of privacy out of the box, but stronger 31 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,160 levels of privacy are always desirable. 32 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:51,840 Now, this leads a number of people, users and builders, to look at alternative currencies, 33 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:57,120 but unfortunately, they often are more centralized, and they are incomplete, and they are less 34 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,120 secure. 35 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,160 Now, what is the solution? 36 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,400 The solution is what we call a federated OS. 37 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:12,480 Now, think of these like the OSs that you have in your iPhone, your iOS, or your Android 38 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,200 OS for your Android phone, or the macOS for your MacBook. 39 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:22,320 An OS is the thing that makes everything else on your computer or your mobile phone work. 40 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,880 Now, a federated OS is the same, but instead of it running just for one computer, it runs 41 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,120 for a community, an organization, a company, any group of individuals. 42 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:40,640 And it provides an independent way, and this is really important, an independent way for 43 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,760 that community, that organization to take control of their money and their data. 44 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,880 And FediMint is the world's first federated OS. 45 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,320 Now, how does FediMint work? 46 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,560 At its base, it's a community custody protocol. 47 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,520 So it is built in custody from the get-go. 48 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,360 It is run by trusted members of a community. 49 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,680 We call them guardians, but you can think about them as similar in concept to validators 50 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,400 or verifiers in other layer-free scaling solutions. 51 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:22,240 And on top of custody, you have baked-in support for privacy, scalability, and extensibility 52 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,560 like DeFi and Web3, baked in. 53 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,120 And these guardians run it on behalf of their community. 54 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:37,360 Drilling into more detail, at the base of each FediMint is a federated application server. 55 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,800 You should think about this similar to the web servers that power the tens or hundreds 56 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,400 of millions of websites on the internet, Web 1 and Web 2, or the application server that 57 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,360 comes in your iPhone to run all the apps on your iPhone or on your MacBook to run all 58 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,520 the applications on your MacBook. 59 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,800 But the difference is, instead of it running for one individual, one company, one organization, 60 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,480 it is run by this federation of guardians so that, in a way similar to Bitcoin and Lightning, 61 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,440 so that as long as the majority stay honest, it will keep running and operating as expected. 62 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,880 Now, any OS always comes as standard with default apps that you get out of the box. 63 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,720 And a federated OS is no different. 64 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,160 With FediMint, you get three standard apps. 65 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,400 We call them FediMint modules with every installation. 66 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,480 Now, the first is Chowmian eCash. 67 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Chowmian eCash is a privacy-preserving digital currency protocol. 68 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,840 It's a form of digital money. 69 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,920 And the inventor of Chowmian eCash was actually one of the people that Satoshi Nakamoto referenced 70 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,320 in his original Bitcoin white paper. 71 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,600 It has a number of incredible properties, but one of them is that it provides incredible 72 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,760 privacy guarantees out of the box without you having to do anything special. 73 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:56,640 It just works. 74 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:04,160 So every FediMint, any user of a FediMint has access to eCash and has strong privacy 75 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,240 guarantees without having to do anything. 76 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,600 The second that comes as standard is Bitcoin Multisig. 77 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,840 This means that every user of a FediMint has the ability to custody their Bitcoin with 78 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,960 the best practice approach of multisig custody. 79 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Again, without having to do anything. 80 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,280 It just happens automatically for them. 81 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,960 And the third is Lightning Network Support. 82 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,440 You just heard Koji talk about the power of the Lightning Network. 83 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,440 One of the most mature Layer 2 scaling solutions for payments. 84 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,480 Every user of a FediMint Federation, this layer-free scaling solution can seamlessly 85 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:39,840 interact with the Lightning Network. 86 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:44,080 Send value from one Federation member to another, someone else in a different Federation, or 87 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,760 anyone else on the Lightning Network, and they don't need to know how it works. 88 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:48,480 It just works. 89 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,800 On top of that, it has multi-asset support, so you can support stable coins, security 90 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,120 tokens, NFTs, whatever, what have you. 91 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,360 And it's self-healing. 92 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,480 A side effect of the Federated OS architecture is if a Guardian's machine goes offline, they 93 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,400 come back online and it will reconnect and carry on where it left off, and no one is 94 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:09,200 else the wiser. 95 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,400 It just happens automatically. 96 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,840 And finally, it's BTC to the core. 97 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,160 There is no additional token required. 98 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,120 It's so simple and easy to run one of these as a Guardian that there is no real effort 99 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:21,600 to do it. 100 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,920 Now, you can add a token if you wish, but there will be 100,000 other options of Federations 101 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,200 where there is no token. 102 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,480 So there's very little incentive. 103 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,720 And this is incredibly mature technology. 104 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,040 Xiaomi and eCash this year will be a 40-year-old mature technology. 105 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,560 It is the first digital eCash token and the most mature. 106 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Bitcoin will be 15 years old this year. 107 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,560 The most mature, most decentralized cryptocurrency. 108 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,800 And Lightning is the most mature Layer 2 scaling solution. 109 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,800 It's older than most other altcoins. 110 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:02,320 And FediMin itself has been built by some of the greatest minds in the Bitcoin space 111 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,480 and has been researched and developed for over three years. 112 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,840 So why is FediMin so powerful? 113 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Three reasons. 114 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,000 One, it's a distributed Layer 3. 115 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:18,560 And this is important because instead of one monolithic Layer 3, zero-knowledge roll-up 116 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,160 or optimistic roll-up, where if there is an error, everyone in the world who's using 117 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:25,520 that roll-up gets affected. 118 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,800 With the architecture of FediMin, you have tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands 119 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,440 of individual Layer 3s that any group of people, as little as four people can set up 120 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,040 in a matter of minutes. 121 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,280 But because of the connectivity with the modules to the Lightning and Bitcoin network, 122 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,560 they interplay with each other seamlessly and transparently. 123 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:51,280 This means if one of those hundred thousand FediMins fails, it doesn't affect the other 124 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,080 hundred thousand. 125 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,440 No one else notices. 126 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:54,880 Avoiding systemic risk. 127 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,120 The second, it has inbuilt safe and easy custody as standard. 128 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,520 So if you are a user, you use this wallet and the experience is as simple, if not simpler 129 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:06,640 than using an exchange. 130 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:14,240 But if you were to lose your keys or your keys were stolen, you can use the actual community, 131 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,960 the Federation itself, to help you recover your keys automatically, solving the backup 132 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:19,920 and recovery problem. 133 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,080 And third, it allows a super easy permissionless innovation. 134 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,720 This is using our module functionality, which you could think about as equivalent to DeFi 135 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,840 and smart contracts, but much more powerful. 136 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:42,160 It's actually closer to developing applications to work on a website, web one or web two, 137 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,320 or for a PC or mobile phone. 138 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:53,920 So the tens of millions of people who can already develop websites and mobile apps and 139 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,600 PC apps are able, with less than a day's worth of conversion, to be able to take 100% of 140 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:04,560 their skills and their code base and translate it over and make FediMin modules. 141 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:12,640 Compare that to the 10 to 20,000 smart contract developers in the crypto ecosystem and it 142 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,120 massively dwarfs the amount of resource that can come in and build on Bitcoin. 143 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:26,000 Now, before you say it, no, unfortunately, roll-ups and zero-knowledge EVMs are not 144 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,080 federated OSs. 145 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,800 And there are two reasons, right? 146 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:37,200 The first is, contrary to popular belief, they are almost all centrally controlled and 147 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,200 they are not distributed. 148 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,760 Now, as I said, almost all of them are monolithic structures, i.e. 149 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,000 there's one sidechain that everybody is expected to use. 150 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:54,240 If it has an error, and this is very complex code, then every user in the world using that 151 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,040 gets affected. 152 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,400 So it inherently has a systemic risk. 153 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,600 And the second is, although they're advertised as being permissionless, and permissionless 154 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,120 in terms of the way they're structured, they are actually all today centrally controlled. 155 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,240 And you don't have to believe me. 156 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:18,160 Even as often as recently as a few weeks ago and a few months ago, Vitalik Buterin himself 157 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:24,000 has stated that almost all roll-ups and zero-knowledge EVMs are on training wheels. 158 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,320 And what he means by that is, even though they say that eventually they want to be 159 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,360 permissionless, they all have some sort of security council or foundation that has the 160 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:34,800 keys to the system. 161 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:41,280 They can override any transaction, any application at any point for an emergency reason or for 162 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,640 a non-emergency reason. 163 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,640 And therefore, they are centralized. 164 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,560 That is the definition of being centralized. 165 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,800 The second issue is that they are incomplete because, as I said before, they don't have 166 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,120 custody built into the protocol. 167 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,200 So they don't have mechanisms to help people recover their keys if they've lost or stolen 168 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:01,760 them. 169 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,720 And that is a big, big challenge as we move to a decentralized world. 170 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:06,480 And it will only get bigger. 171 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,280 Now, think about an OS. 172 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,000 Imagine your iPhone where you could take a photo, but then you won't be able to save 173 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,320 it to your hard drive, and you just lose it. 174 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,920 Or you can make a number of calendar entries in your calendar app, but then when you turn 175 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,960 off your phone and you turn it on, all the calendar entries will go. 176 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,120 Or you make a note, and again, you turn off your phone, and you lose the entries. 177 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:37,520 If you do not have built-in support for custody, and only you can use your data, that has use, 178 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,520 but it's not fully useful. 179 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,600 Unless you combine the two, you are not an OS. 180 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,920 So what does this look like? 181 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:52,880 Let's just compare the Bitcoin with FediMint architecture versus a typical alternative 182 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,400 currency architecture. 183 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,120 This could be, I've just chosen Ethereum as an example, but this could be any other alternative 184 00:12:59,120 --> 00:12:59,600 currency. 185 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:00,560 It's the same story. 186 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,880 First, you have the layer one. 187 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:03,680 That's the base currency. 188 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,240 In this case, you have Ethereum. 189 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,040 Then you have your layer two. 190 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,240 You have your layer two. 191 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,640 This is the way of transferring value between one roll-up and another, one layer three. 192 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,640 In the case of Ethereum, it will be cross-chain bridges. 193 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,000 They are complex. 194 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,360 There's many of them. 195 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:26,000 They are incompatible in standards, and they tend to be unreliable. 196 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,440 As we've seen, there's been many cases where these cross-chain bridges have been hacked 197 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:30,240 or had exploits. 198 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,480 And then you have your layer three. 199 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,760 Now, the layer three is generally roll-ups and EVMs, and again, there's many of them. 200 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,880 They're incompatible, and they are competing with each other to get you to use their token, 201 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,920 and they're incredibly complex, which is why they need to have this centralized element. 202 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,160 So imagine you're a developer, and you're having to build for all of those different 203 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:52,960 options. 204 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,840 It's just an immense undertaking. 205 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,960 And if you're a user, it's also very confusing which one to use. 206 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,720 Now, compare it to Bitcoin. 207 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:06,480 You've got layer one, Bitcoin, the world's most mature, most decentralized layer one 208 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,280 in cryptocurrency. 209 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:15,200 Layer two is Lightning, the world's most mature, most decentralized layer two payments network. 210 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,880 And then finally, you have this distributed federation of tens or hundreds of thousands 211 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,680 of independent layer three fediments, each one able to be set up permissionlessly by 212 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,240 anyone and able to interact with each other and the rest of the Bitcoin and Lightning 213 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,440 network seamlessly. 214 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:39,600 So as a developer, you can see which one is probably a better solution. 215 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,520 So in summary, therefore, there really is no comparison. 216 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Now, if you wish to just store your data or your money and not use it, then there's no 217 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:57,440 other option. 218 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,640 The best option for you is self-custody, of course, and it always will be. 219 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:08,240 But if you want to not just store your data, but also use it and not just your money, but 220 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,040 also your data, you need a federated OS. 221 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,280 And when it comes to that situation, nothing compares to FediMint. 222 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,560 So what do we do next? 223 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,880 I suggest three things. 224 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,560 If you're just interested to learn more, because this is a whirlwind tour, if you're just 225 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,720 interested to learn more, go to FediMint.org. 226 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,120 That's the official site for the FediMint open source protocol. 227 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,120 There you can find out more information about it. 228 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,960 It's written in very simple, clear language with lots of diagrams, lots of videos. 229 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,720 And also, it will tell you not only the pros, but also the cons, because in the Bitcoin 230 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,120 ecosystem, we think it's really important to be transparent about the limitations of 231 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:50,560 any protocols we use. 232 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:58,720 I'm also in Hong Kong right now, and Hong Kong has some of the most gifted developers 233 00:15:58,720 --> 00:15:59,360 in the world. 234 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:06,080 So if you are a builder and you are interested in getting involved with working on FediMint, 235 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,240 please go to the GitHub and check it out. 236 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,800 Also, check out the FediMint Discord and the FediMint Telegram. 237 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,200 There's a very welcoming community. 238 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,800 In fact, FediMint is actually one of the most popular GitHub projects in the Bitcoin 239 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,720 ecosystem at this point in time, and it's only growing in adoption and use. 240 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:35,360 And finally, if you are a user or a community leader or a business owner who's interested 241 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,840 in having your own personal layer 3 on top of Bitcoin and Lightning that interacts with 242 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:46,240 the rest of the ecosystem seamlessly, without having to rely on a particular company or 243 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:53,200 organization, so you take control of your layer 3, then please consider joining me. 244 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:55,120 Watch this space. 245 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:03,200 FediMint combines the world's most fundamental technology of community with freedom technologies 246 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:08,320 like Bitcoin and Lightning and brings them together to level up humanity. 247 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:14,960 So I would love you to join me and us in the Bitcoin community to level up humanity together. 248 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:15,680 Thank you very much. 249 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:16,880 Thank you. 250 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,760 Thank you, Mr. Obi Nosu for insightful sharing. 251 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,240 Thank you. 252 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,200 And ladies and gentlemen, a gentle reminder for all of you, the afternoon session provides 253 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,880 simultaneous interpretation. 254 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,520 You can use WeChat, Twitter, browser, et cetera, to scan the QR code of simultaneous 255 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:45,440 interpretation on the signage at the entrance or on your brochure and listen to the simultaneous 256 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,360 interpretation through your mobile phone. 257 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,560 You're recommended to bring your headphones in advance. 258 00:17:50,560 --> 00:18:16,240 So moving on, may I invite Mr. John Riggins, head of international operations of BTC Incorporated 259 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:23,200 and Louis Liu, founder and CEO of Mimesis Capital, and also Evan from BDK. 260 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:41,920 Ladies and gentlemen, let's give a round of applause to our speakers in the following session. 261 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,240 All right. 262 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,160 Good afternoon, everyone. 263 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,800 I don't know about you, but I'm feeling pretty excited, pretty jazzed up after hearing that. 264 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,160 Yeah. 265 00:18:58,800 --> 00:18:59,200 All right. 266 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,120 So to kind of start off, we'll do a quick round of introductions. 267 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,880 I'm John Riggins with BTC Inc. 268 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,480 We have run kind of the oldest Bitcoin media business in the space since 2012 at Bitcoin 269 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:14,960 Magazine. 270 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:16,400 Louis? 271 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:18,960 Yeah, I'll go ahead and start it. 272 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:25,440 So founder and CEO of Mimesis Capital, which was one of the first family office funds, 273 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,160 actually adopted Bitcoin standard. 274 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,360 And our strategy is pretty simple. 275 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,800 We accumulate Bitcoin. 276 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,480 We also founded and invest in Bitcoin companies all around the world. 277 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:42,560 We could be one of the earliest investors in some of the well-known companies 278 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,480 out there, like Unchained Capital, Swarm Bitcoin. 279 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,240 Evan? 280 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,360 Hello, everybody. 281 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:50,720 My name is Evan. 282 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:58,240 I'm an open source developer working on Bitcoin Development Kits, which is an SDK for developers 283 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,240 wanting to build on Bitcoin. 284 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:01,600 Awesome. 285 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,960 Evan, let's dive a little bit deeper into that first. 286 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:12,320 Can you kind of give a little bit more insight into what BDK is, kind of how that open source 287 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,800 development ecosystem is working? 288 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:16,960 Yeah. 289 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:24,320 So BDK does various things, starting from key management, and also we use a mini script 290 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:24,960 for backup. 291 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,640 So mini script has two main purposes, from my understanding. 292 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,000 The first one is how do you derive script pub keys, and the hard one is how to spin 293 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,040 them later on. 294 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,560 And then from key management, we deal with grabbing stuff from the blockchain. 295 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:48,080 So there's multiple ways in which you can grab Bitcoin blockchain data, and then we 296 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:53,920 handle that into this thing called BDK chain, which is an in-memory data structure, and 297 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,840 then we have persistence, which is storing everything on disks. 298 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,680 So it covers a lot. 299 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,520 Yeah. 300 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,800 That's basically it. 301 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,440 Yeah. 302 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,800 And who kind of is this for? 303 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,600 Who's the product for? 304 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,400 Like, why are you working on this and not something else in Bitcoin? 305 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,320 Sorry, what was the question? 306 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,280 Why are you choosing to spend your time on this? 307 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,320 What's exciting you about it? 308 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:21,920 Right. 309 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:22,320 Yeah. 310 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:33,680 So I think the main use case of BDK is for building wallets and making self-custody easier. 311 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,280 I think that's very important because not your keys, not your coins. 312 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:39,840 There we go. 313 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:40,240 That's right. 314 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,040 Lewis, you mentioned a couple of companies you've invested in. 315 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,200 One of them, not your keys, not your coins, is pretty central to what they do in Unchained. 316 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,120 Can you talk a little bit more about kind of what you've been looking for in early-stage 317 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:58,480 companies to date, and then maybe kind of what you see as interesting moving forward, 318 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,040 especially as some open-source projects kind of build out additional tooling? 319 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,240 Like BDK. 320 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:06,160 Yeah. 321 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,280 So our thesis is quite simple. 322 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:16,720 Like, if you build products on top of Bitcoin and have those Bitcoin apples, like not your 323 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:25,440 keys, not your coins, self-custody, and also with open-source apples, those are kind of 324 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,280 like a direction that we'll be looking into. 325 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:34,800 As for the companies that I invested in, they are all, you know, big fans of open-source. 326 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:43,280 They all have open-source code base, so people can leverage it or even build their own products 327 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,800 on top of those open-source code. 328 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:52,560 For example, like Unchained Capital's Caravan is a great open-source code for multi-sig 329 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,320 custodies, and, you know, you can simply go to GitHub and fork it. 330 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:04,560 I think that's just a big part of the open-source community that people can build on those 331 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,600 open-source code, you know, leverage each other, you know, in a free market. 332 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,240 Yeah, I think that's a good point. 333 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,840 Can you talk a little bit about kind of the funding environment for BDK specifically? 334 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,600 I know you all have worked with Spiral. 335 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,920 I think it was a pretty big deal, you know, in the last few weeks when your grant was 336 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,000 announced, a nice piece of validation. 337 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,640 What's it like working with their team? 338 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,840 What's the dynamic there? 339 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,920 BDK is an open-source project. 340 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:43,200 We get funding from multiple places, so one of our big funders, and they do fund individual 341 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,480 developers, is Spiral. 342 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:50,240 The process, I think, is quite similar across the Bitcoin ecosystem. 343 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:58,160 Basically, you come up with a proposal, and then you send it to, like, for example, Spiral 344 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:04,160 or Brink, and then they look at it, and if it's accepted, they'll basically give you a grant. 345 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:12,640 It's really that simple, but what helped me was I was contributing to BDK even before the 346 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,320 grant, and then I think that's, like, the proof of work, and they want to get it a bit faster. 347 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:19,920 Yeah, that's great. 348 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:30,400 Lewis, you mentioned some open-source stuff that Unchain has rolled out, multi-sig. 349 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:39,520 What kind of excites you about the custody application moving forward with things that 350 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,120 Unchain's working on, anything additional? 351 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:48,480 Is there an opportunity for custody solutions out here in Asia that hasn't, you know, kind 352 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,000 of a market that hasn't been tapped as much yet? 353 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:58,800 Yeah, so I'm a big proponent for self-custody, and especially if you cannot do self-custody, 354 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:07,120 I will recommend multi-sig custody because, you know, you're not just, you know, control 355 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,560 one keys. 356 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,000 You actually control multiple keys, and you can actually store that keys with multiple 357 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:14,960 institutions. 358 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:21,040 So basically, the idea is there's no single point of failure for multi-sig, and I think 359 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:28,880 that kind of product just has, you know, attractiveness if you want to store large wealth 360 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:35,280 in Bitcoin without those counterparty risks or, you know, point of failure. 361 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:41,680 And it's important to understand that if you lose your key, private key, or, you know, 362 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,200 and it's being compromised, you know, you're getting over, right? 363 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,320 So it's important to distribute the private key in various ways. 364 00:25:53,440 --> 00:26:00,720 So I think there are markets in Asia, you know, that advocates for multi-sig custody. 365 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,240 And if you have the ability to do multi-sig, you know, please do that, right? 366 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:12,880 Do not trust a centralized custodian if you don't have the choice, right? 367 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:18,240 And, you know, we saw the episode in FTX, you know, all the exchange fell out. 368 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:25,360 That just gives, you know, that's just a big lesson that we can learn from that, you know, 369 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:32,400 do your self-custody even more advanced multi-sig as a ride forward. 370 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,520 And I think, you know, it's really important to understand that aspect. 371 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,400 And, you know, do not trust counterparty blindly, you know. 372 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,880 Do trust the Bitcoin code and open source code. 373 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,480 Yeah. 374 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,000 And, you know, you've got your hands dirty in the code every day. 375 00:26:52,560 --> 00:27:00,160 What, I guess, in the process of doing that proof of work before, you know, you get a grant, 376 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:08,880 you know, what do you think the kind of talent backlog looks like in Bitcoin? 377 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,600 And is there anything that kind of people more on the commercial side, like Lewis, 378 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:21,360 like some of the media in the space, like us, other kind of more for-profit businesses, 379 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:28,480 how would you recommend that piece of the industry look at open source development? 380 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,200 Do you think there's enough of a pipeline of funding? 381 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:37,200 Do you think there is enough kind of outreach and bringing developer talent into the system? 382 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,280 What are your kind of thoughts on the pipeline, the ecosystem right now? 383 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,080 This is a tough question for me. 384 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,320 I'm mostly focused on development and building, 385 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:54,320 but does seem that there has been more and more funding for Bitcoin development. 386 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,440 Yeah, Lewis, you have any thoughts on that? 387 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:03,280 I know there are some funds out there that, you know, give a certain percentage of, 388 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,560 you know, fees to open source development. 389 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,080 I know at the Bitcoin conference, we're planning on, you know, 390 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,880 putting a certain amount of profits into the open source development. 391 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,440 How do you think kind of the commercial side of the industry should be thinking about this? 392 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,360 Yeah, I think it's important to fund those open source developments. 393 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:26,240 So far, Mimesis Capital have not yet funded those open source activities. 394 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:32,480 Our approach is that when investing in a company that does open source development 395 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:40,480 and have the ability to fund those open source developers better than, you know, we do. 396 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:49,440 Like, for example, when we invest in and like just put on chain, for example, 397 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:59,040 they knew better way to build open source multi-city custody than I do, right? 398 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,960 And so I will leave that to those experts who do that. 399 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,000 Also, like, for example, the block, right? 400 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,680 I think they have tremendous interest in the Bitcoin space 401 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:18,320 and they know better, like, who is the developer that they wanted to grant the money to. 402 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,400 Like, for example, Avon is being picked by, you know, BDK. 403 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,160 And I think they have that kind of expertise to do that. 404 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,920 So that's just my general thoughts. 405 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,600 And I think, you know, I will lead to the experts 406 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,040 and the company that try to build that stuff to fund those open source developers. 407 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,160 Yeah, makes a lot of sense. 408 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,920 As we, you know, we just heard a really interesting talk about 409 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400 layer three on Bitcoin, some interesting applications of that. 410 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,880 What kind of being here today, what are you excited about moving forward 411 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,840 in the Bitcoin ecosystem that maybe is a little bit under talked about? 412 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:21,000 Yeah, so sitting here in the web three festival, there's a lot of thoughts I have, you know, talking to the projects out there in the booth, building different solution with different organization method. And I think ultimately, you know, the things that they are lacking is they don't have a solid foundation to build on. They try to recreate a whole scheme. 413 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:50,000 And I think you don't have to spend all that time and money to recreate the whole scheme. I mean, the whole scheme is we have the monetary network that's called Bitcoin. And only only thing entrepreneur have to do is create products, create layers on top. So more entrepreneur, more developer can join and build a better solution, better products, better application. 414 00:30:51,000 --> 00:31:10,000 For Bitcoin. And ultimately, I think Bitcoin has a very great head start against all other cryptocurrency or shut coins around there. And let's just not forget about the advantage that Bitcoin has. Right. And building on top really gives you that advantage. 415 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:34,000 So what I'm looking right now is like Lightning Network, Fadiman's like OBS doing with Fadi are good example that you can build layer two, layer three application on top of Bitcoin. And, you know, you have also have Avon like building open source for the Bitcoin development kits. So all of that is possible, right? 416 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:51,000 You don't have to create another token or another marketing phrase to justify your project. And ultimately, in the end of the day, people just want to use the products, use Bitcoin to access to various kind of application. 417 00:31:51,000 --> 00:32:09,000 And one of the very good example, I don't know if you guys here knows about it, it's called Nostr. Nostr is kind of like, you know, you know, a decentralized social network that allow Bitcoin to be transact freely peer to peer. So on there is kind of like a Twitter experience. 418 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:30,000 You have your own data, you control your own public key and private key. And you can use Bitcoin on that, you know, social network as a payment method. And what we do there is you can post something funny or put something very insightful, and people can zap you Bitcoin. 419 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:42,000 And I think that's a great demonstration of ultimately what Web3 is looking like. Yeah, that's just my observation and my thinking about the future. 420 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:47,000 Yeah, that's good insight. Any follow up there, Evan? 421 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:53,000 Not much, but I can talk about what we're working on right now in BDK. 422 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,000 Yeah, so I guess the other form of that question, what are you excited about what's coming next with BDK? 423 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:12,000 Right. So there has been, I mean, BDK is great in terms of the functionality before. But one of the main issues we ran into is the way we designed, the way we architected BDK before was basically a massive monolith. 424 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:35,000 So when you wanted to use it, you had to use this whole system. So one of the things we're doing right now is we're splitting up, decoupling it. So for example, coin selection will be its own module. And then BDK chain, which is the in-memory representation of relevant blockchain data is its own structure. 425 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:57,000 And then for persistence, different types of persistence will be its own separate crates and even separate crates for data sources. So this way, if you want to use BDK, you only need to pick the parts that you need. But also, if you want to have something simpler, you can use the whole thing. Right now it's called BDK wallets. 426 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:15,000 And then also later this year, we'll have better, it's called a pay join. It's a way of making Bitcoin transactions more private on chain. We'll have greater support for that in BDK coming this year. 427 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:21,000 Can you talk a little bit more about that last piece? Why you're excited about that? What it means? 428 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:41,000 So with Bitcoin, instead of an account-based transaction structure, we have UTXOs. So basically, with every transaction, you're spending coins and creating new coins. 429 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:57,000 And with that process, I guess there's inputs and outputs, and you're just combining multiple inputs and multiple outputs to make it more confusing for people who do chain analysis to figure out who you're sending money to, basically. 430 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:07,000 Yeah. Privacy on Bitcoin moving forward is something a lot of people are focused on. And there's some promising things happening. Appreciate what the team's doing on that. 431 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:25,000 The aspect of working with people around the world on the same project. I know you see the team here and there. I think I saw your team in Bangkok at the Bob's base not too long ago. 432 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:40,000 Do you have any take on the kind of ecosystem here in Asia versus what's in Europe and North America? What's it like working out here with most of your colleagues other places? 433 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:52,000 So I am quite new to the Bitcoin space. I just only started on Bitcoin development last year. I don't know. 434 00:35:53,000 --> 00:36:11,000 Lewis, what do you think? You've been kind of a stalwart in Bitcoin out of Asia going back and have been kind of one of the people that people in the West kind of look to in terms of what's happening here, what's interesting. 435 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:27,000 What are kind of the trends you're seeing? Being at something like this in Hong Kong, is it giving you any thoughts on kind of what the opportunity is in Asia, what we need to have a more thriving Bitcoin ecosystem here compared to what's in North America? 436 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:38,000 Yeah, I think there's a lot to learn from the West, especially learn from those entrepreneurs who have built successful products on Bitcoin, create successful business. 437 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:58,000 In Asia, I think we just need more entrepreneurs to think about the philosophy of building on top of Bitcoin. It takes tremendous passion and intelligence to create business on top. 438 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:16,000 There are a couple of Bitcoin companies that I kind of see developing in Asia. And to be frank, there are a lot of good open source developers building on Bitcoin, creating either BDK or LDK. 439 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:29,000 Some of them are living in Asia. I think Asia has this kind of very talented developer community, and they just have to find a good way to spend their time and create products. 440 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:42,000 So Bitcoin companies in Asia, I want to try to mention is that there are companies called Nunchuck. It's kind of like building the multi-sig application on mobile phone. 441 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:54,000 So I've been using that for a lot, but I'm not an investor for food culture. But it's interesting that some guys, maybe like American Vietnamese, are creating that app. 442 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:05,000 And it doesn't really shy away from building that out of Vietnam or Asia. And you can also see commuting being developed. 443 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:22,000 I just went to Vietnam Lighting Con. I had a good experience there. Also, you know, Philippine Bitcoin Island with Pudge. Pudge is like a remittance app there. They host the event. 444 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,000 So you can start to see all these applications and companies popping up all over Asia. I think there's a great opportunity. 445 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:44,000 Awesome. Well, we're running out of time here. Thanks for sharing the insights. Just last thing, what's the one thing you're most bullish about in the next year that BDK is doing? 446 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,000 Everything about BDK. 447 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:56,000 Alright, there you go. What's the number one thing you're most bullish about in terms of the opportunity to invest in companies building in Asia? 448 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:10,000 Yeah, I think there will be more companies coming out of Asia that want to build on top of Bitcoin. I'm very looking forward to that and talking to entrepreneurs and maybe invest a little bit. 449 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:17,000 Alright, awesome. Well, thanks, everyone. We got some good stuff coming up. So thanks, Evan. Thanks, Louis. 450 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:24,000 Thank you, gentlemen, for sharing your insights on the topic of opportunities for building with Bitcoin. Thank you. 451 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:51,000 So a friendly reminder for all of you throughout the festival, you may collect stamps from all areas across the exhibition hall. You may refer to the logos page for details and with a complete collection of stamps in one area. You may then proceed to the information desk to redeem a corresponding gift. 452 00:39:51,000 --> 00:40:11,000 So, ladies and gentlemen, moving on, may I invite Mr. Paul Sztorc, founder and CEO of LayerTwo Labs to deliver a keynote on the topic of Drivechain and sidechain vision for Bitcoin. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Mr. Paul Sztorc. 453 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:48,000 Okay, great. Is this on? Yes. Oh, great. Thank you. Our company wants Bitcoin to do everything. So on the left, we have the world today, many coins, many systems. 454 00:40:48,000 --> 00:41:10,000 And on the right, we have the world of tomorrow, which is only Bitcoin. We will have other blockchains tomorrow and we will have other payment systems tomorrow, but we'll have no other coins. So none of that. Okay, only Bitcoin. That's what Drivechain is about. That's what LayerTwo Labs is about. 455 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:32,000 So is it really so hard to believe? Because, you know, actually it happens all the time. Standardization is the norm. Network effects are the norm for money. So what we hope for Bitcoin is that it goes from being like an old dorky phone there on the left to being a smartphone on the right that does everything. 456 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:49,000 Now, I'm going to try to explain this technology in a moment, I promise. But first, let's see here. First, I compiled a list of some nice things that people have said about us or about me. 457 00:41:49,000 --> 00:42:17,000 So here's Adam Back, founder of Blockstream, and Fiat Jaff, creator of Nostr. And then here's some more people. We got CTO of Lightning Labs. We've got Ruben Thompson. We've got Eric Wall. Eric always has nice things to say about me. What a nice guy. 458 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:38,000 Nick Carter, Ari Paul. Wow, these are great. What a great list this is. Aaron Von Weirdom. Okay, Peter McCormick. Yeah, just one currency to go around and do all these other things. I like that a lot, so that's cool. Well, that's kind of neat, yes. 459 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:58,000 Guy Swan, sidechains are an inevitable part of the ecosystem for multiple reasons. Yes, that's right. Yes, very good. Okay, I'm going to try to explain how this works, but I'm not going to succeed. But if you really want to know, then visit drivechain.info. But I'm going to give you like a 60-second explanation. 460 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:17,000 Okay, so here's the regular Bitcoin blockchain in red. And then on top of that, we're going to put something else, like Monero. We're going to call it BitMonero. And so the question is, how does Drivechain do that? 461 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:36,000 Well, what we do is we compress all of the Layer 2 blockchain activity into one hash. And then we're going to shove that hash into the Coinbase transaction on Layer 1. So that way, Drivechain only needs to access data that it already has on BTC Layer 1. 462 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:59,000 So what your node sees, the Bitcoin node, what the Bitcoin node sees is this. It just sees the deposits and withdrawals on Layer 1. Now that, of course, skips a lot of details, like how do you know you have the right withdrawal or whatever. But for more information on exactly how this works, you should read BIP300 or you should go to drivechain.info. So that's great. I just wanted to... 463 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:18,000 Okay. So I just thought I'd show you some screenshots. Here's our software, which is 100% real and it already exists. So a lot of things, like, I don't know, they will build something or whatever. But our software already exists. So here it is. And I put these little filters up here. Okay, here they are. Great. 464 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:43,000 So you can see that the two sidechains on the left is a clone of Ethereum. So it does everything that Ethereum can do, right down to having no graphical user interface. But we already get the best of both worlds, best of Bitcoin and the best of Ethereum. So we already built that. So this gives you an idea of that. 465 00:44:43,000 --> 00:45:12,000 So please visit drivechain.info if you want to actually learn about what is happening at this company or in this talk. There's no way I can easily explain it in a short amount of time. But you should read everything for yourself and consider it very carefully. But if you go to the site, you see I've got lots of stuff. I have slides, me on a podcast. I have the BIP text. I've got lots of stuff up there. There's an FAQ. There's peer review. It's great. It's a great site. 466 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:36,000 I can't tell you a little about our team, however. The team has a lot of people on it. But these are the four co-founders. And the three of us here on the left, we have Austin's name gone on there. But we each have over 10 years of experience in Bitcoin. So I think combined we have something like 35 or 36 years of experience. 467 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:54,000 I myself have been working on this project for about eight years or so, more or less self-funded. I work on quite a few things, but this project has a lot of experience behind it, which I think is something unique at this particular venue. 468 00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:12,000 So the benefits of the technology. Every single stakeholder group, developers, miners, users, savers, or investors, they all benefit enormously from this type of configuration. 469 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:31,000 So the miners benefit especially because they collect an endlessly growing pile of transaction fees forever in return for doing absolutely zero extra work. So no extra work whatsoever. This will eventually be how miners make all their money, in my opinion. 470 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:49,000 Investors never need to worry about a rival coin. It's just only one coin. Devs can do whatever they want. So each dev is the CEO of their own private realm. And users get access to every feature of every blockchain. So that's kind of cool. We like that. 471 00:46:49,000 --> 00:47:05,000 Now, goals. What do we hope to achieve with our company? Yes, our company has goals. Specifically. Well, here's some things we would like. We want Bitcoin to have immediate global scale and unbreakable privacy. 472 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:31,000 We want fees to always be low, near zero. We want miner revenues to grow exponentially forever. We want layer one to never change again. Now, what do I mean by that? That maximizes decentralization, and it ensures that our victory is permanent because we can no longer accidentally change the system that we have created and accidentally break it. 473 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:47,000 We want devs to be able to make cool stuff. We don't want them to have to go and do some kind of campaign where they have to convince people that what they're doing is important. Trust me, you don't want that. So we want them to just be able to make creative freedom for devs. 474 00:47:47,000 --> 00:48:07,000 And we want an end to scamming and scam coins, because there's only one coin. And we want the whole Bitcoin community to be united. No more toxicity, no more people being mean to each other on Twitter. We want everyone to be all united against our common enemy, which is, of course, the banks. 475 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:22,000 And we want all of this with zero risk to Bitcoin. We want everything to be opt-in and reversible so that there's really no chance of anything going off the rails. 476 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:39,000 There's another thing that we want. We do want our investors to make a ton of money, because of course we do. So there we go. To that point, we have this. It's actually the second-to-last slide, but it's a good slide. 477 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:59,000 This project started a long time ago with a blog post I wrote in November 2015. And a couple more things happened after that. We made some sidechains. We have quite a few now. But in September of last year, we raised money to start this company. We have a business model and everything. 478 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:15,000 What we are going to do very soon, like immediately, more or less, the second and final round of fundraising is going to begin. So if you would like to know about the business model of our company, then you can come up and talk to me if you like. 479 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:36,000 Thank you very much. You should really visit our site LayerTwoLabs.com or drivechain.info if you want to learn more about the technology or the company. A lot of it is changing every day, so the best thing is to come up to me and talk to me personally. 480 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:43,000 Okay, great. And of course, I'm on Twitter and Telegram. Okay, so thanks very much. 481 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,000 Thank you. Thank you, Paul, for your insights. Round of applause, please. 482 00:49:56,682 --> 00:50:01,022 I am Amanda Chang. 483 00:50:01,022 --> 00:50:06,922 We have a small coordinate for our organization. 484 00:50:06,922 --> 00:50:14,082 I'm going to walk soon, and then we will talk about some of the challenges with the 485 00:50:14,082 --> 00:50:19,882 pandemic around human rights for everyone to be safe and be sure to take care of 486 00:50:19,882 --> 00:50:20,882 yourselves. 487 00:50:20,882 --> 00:50:24,562 You can listen to simultaneous interpretation through your mobile phone. 488 00:50:24,562 --> 00:50:31,042 You're also advised to bring your own headphone in advance. 489 00:50:31,042 --> 00:50:39,442 So now, ladies and gentlemen, we now have a roundtable forum with the following guests. 490 00:50:39,442 --> 00:50:42,702 And please allow me to introduce our following guests first. 491 00:50:42,702 --> 00:50:51,382 They are Mr. Pan Zhixiong, founder of Chain Feeds, Mr. Yu Mingcha, co-founder and CTO 492 00:50:51,382 --> 00:51:01,022 of Babylon, Jack Three of Matrix Labs, and Mr. Jeffrey Hu, technical director of Hashi 493 00:51:01,022 --> 00:51:02,642 Capital. 494 00:51:02,642 --> 00:51:07,102 And today we'll have Jeffrey to be the moderator of the following session. 495 00:51:07,102 --> 00:51:12,102 So ladies and gentlemen, please join me in giving a round of applause to our speakers 496 00:51:12,102 --> 00:51:17,702 in the following session. 497 00:51:17,702 --> 00:51:22,702 Round of applause, please. 498 00:51:22,702 --> 00:51:25,702 Welcome, gentlemen. 499 00:51:25,702 --> 00:51:31,302 So in the following time, I'll pass the floor to our moderator, Jeffrey. 500 00:51:55,802 --> 00:51:57,602 We're one of the main events. 501 00:51:57,602 --> 00:52:00,862 We are one of the biggest crypto VCs. 502 00:52:00,862 --> 00:52:07,202 We have more than 200 portfolios and we have more than $1 billion in AOM. 503 00:52:07,202 --> 00:52:11,402 Today's topic is Bitcoin's new technology. 504 00:52:11,402 --> 00:52:17,202 We know that there are a lot of new Bitcoin hot points, so we're very happy to introduce 505 00:52:17,202 --> 00:52:18,302 them to all our guests today. 506 00:52:18,302 --> 00:52:24,002 Our guests at the roundtable will be the founders of Chain Feeds, Mr. Pan Zhixiong, 507 00:52:24,302 --> 00:52:30,202 the founder of Babylon, Mr. Yu Mingchao, and the CEO of Matrix Lab, Mr. Jack. 508 00:52:30,202 --> 00:52:36,002 First of all, let's take about two minutes to introduce ourselves 509 00:52:36,002 --> 00:52:39,202 and introduce some of the projects we are working on. 510 00:52:39,202 --> 00:52:42,302 Hello, everyone. My name is Pan Zhixiong. 511 00:52:42,302 --> 00:52:47,802 We are working on the information gathering platform for Web3 and crypto trading called Chain Feeds. 512 00:52:47,802 --> 00:52:50,402 Today's topic is mainly about Bitcoin, right? 513 00:52:50,402 --> 00:52:56,002 So I actually had my first Bitcoin wallet in 2011. 514 00:52:56,002 --> 00:53:02,102 And at that time, more communities were able to get some BTC through the water faucet. 515 00:53:02,102 --> 00:53:03,702 It's not possible now, right? 516 00:53:03,702 --> 00:53:07,902 Once you get 0.01 or less of this level. 517 00:53:07,902 --> 00:53:12,402 Yes, and then in 2017 and after that, 518 00:53:12,402 --> 00:53:15,502 I was actually very concerned about some of the development of Bitcoin's entire technology. 519 00:53:15,602 --> 00:53:17,702 So last year and the year before last, 520 00:53:17,702 --> 00:53:22,602 we have been studying some of the things related to Taproot or Lightning Network. 521 00:53:22,602 --> 00:53:25,702 So we are also very concerned about the technology of Bitcoin's front end 522 00:53:25,702 --> 00:53:29,102 and some of the development of our products in the future. 523 00:53:29,102 --> 00:53:31,802 Thank you. 524 00:53:31,802 --> 00:53:32,602 Hello, everyone. 525 00:53:32,602 --> 00:53:33,602 My name is Yu Mingchao. 526 00:53:33,602 --> 00:53:37,202 I am the co-founder and CTO of Babylon. 527 00:53:37,202 --> 00:53:43,802 Our Babylon is a project based on Bitcoin infrastructure. 528 00:53:43,802 --> 00:53:50,102 Our vision is to make Bitcoin the cornerstone of decentralization. 529 00:53:50,102 --> 00:53:54,702 Bring Bitcoin's security to the entire decentralization world. 530 00:53:54,702 --> 00:53:59,202 Let all the applications and chains in the entire decentralization world 531 00:53:59,202 --> 00:54:04,102 become the second layer of Bitcoin's expansion. 532 00:54:04,102 --> 00:54:05,102 Thank you. 533 00:54:05,102 --> 00:54:06,302 Great, great. 534 00:54:06,302 --> 00:54:06,702 Hello, everyone. 535 00:54:06,702 --> 00:54:09,902 I am Jack 3, Jack 3.0. 536 00:54:09,902 --> 00:54:12,002 I am the CEO of MatrixLab. 537 00:54:12,102 --> 00:54:15,802 Our project is called Bore Network. 538 00:54:15,802 --> 00:54:19,902 In Chinese, it means Bore Gate. 539 00:54:19,902 --> 00:54:22,702 That is the origin of our name. 540 00:54:22,702 --> 00:54:26,002 Our main goal is to solve a centralized problem in the entire industry. 541 00:54:26,002 --> 00:54:29,302 We have been exploring for four years since 2019. 542 00:54:29,302 --> 00:54:32,902 We have spent our own money to study this matter. 543 00:54:32,902 --> 00:54:34,602 The paper was published on HBOE. 544 00:54:34,602 --> 00:54:38,402 My background is that I joined the industry in 2017 and 2018. 545 00:54:38,402 --> 00:54:41,402 I have been in the open source community for ten years. 546 00:54:41,402 --> 00:54:45,502 I have been in the open source community for ten years. 547 00:54:45,502 --> 00:54:49,702 In 2017 and 2018, I was the first to launch Dariu.com in China. 548 00:54:49,702 --> 00:54:52,702 I was the first to launch Dariu.com in China. 549 00:54:52,702 --> 00:54:55,702 That is my background. 550 00:54:55,702 --> 00:54:56,702 That is my background. 551 00:54:56,702 --> 00:54:57,702 That is my background. 552 00:54:57,702 --> 00:54:58,702 Thank you. 553 00:54:58,702 --> 00:54:59,202 Thank you. 554 00:54:59,202 --> 00:55:00,402 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 555 00:55:00,402 --> 00:55:02,802 Let's start with the first question. 556 00:55:02,802 --> 00:55:08,402 You may have noticed some popular applications on Bitcoin. 557 00:55:08,402 --> 00:55:09,502 For example, Audinos. 558 00:55:09,502 --> 00:55:13,202 I think Audinos is controversial. 559 00:55:13,202 --> 00:55:16,002 There are some different discussions in the Bitcoin community. 560 00:55:16,002 --> 00:55:23,102 I think Audinos is a data storage application on Bitcoin. 561 00:55:23,102 --> 00:55:27,102 Some people think it is a new attempt. 562 00:55:27,102 --> 00:55:35,602 Some community members think it is an application on Bitcoin. 563 00:55:35,602 --> 00:55:39,602 It may take over the original resources and affect other applications. 564 00:55:39,602 --> 00:55:44,602 I don't know if you think this kind of application like Audinos 565 00:55:44,602 --> 00:55:47,602 I don't know if you think this kind of application like Audinos 566 00:55:47,602 --> 00:55:50,602 is a temporary talk line application. 567 00:55:50,602 --> 00:55:57,602 It may reflect a certain trend of using Bitcoin blockchain storage space in the future. 568 00:55:57,602 --> 00:55:59,102 Why don't we start with Mr. Pan? 569 00:55:59,102 --> 00:56:00,102 Okay. 570 00:56:00,102 --> 00:56:04,102 If you are not familiar with Audinos and Inscription, 571 00:56:05,102 --> 00:56:11,102 Audinos and Inscription can be implemented this year or last year. 572 00:56:11,102 --> 00:56:14,102 In fact, it is also because of the two soft splits of Bitcoin. 573 00:56:14,102 --> 00:56:17,102 One is the quarantine certificate in 2016. 574 00:56:17,102 --> 00:56:20,602 The quarantine certificate is a new pricing model. 575 00:56:20,602 --> 00:56:24,102 Let Bitcoin's softness expand four times. 576 00:56:24,102 --> 00:56:27,602 But you can't make use of the four-fold expansion space. 577 00:56:27,602 --> 00:56:31,602 But in the previous year's Taproot upgrade, 578 00:56:31,602 --> 00:56:35,602 the developer added a new way in the upgrade. 579 00:56:35,602 --> 00:56:39,602 The space of the script was originally a limited size. 580 00:56:39,602 --> 00:56:41,102 It has become a limitless size. 581 00:56:41,102 --> 00:56:46,602 So let the inscription plan be added well. 582 00:56:46,602 --> 00:56:53,602 It can be stored at a lower cost on the Bitcoin network. 583 00:56:53,602 --> 00:56:56,602 If the two soft splits are not done, 584 00:56:56,602 --> 00:57:00,602 it is unlikely that a product like Audinos will appear. 585 00:57:00,602 --> 00:57:03,602 First, there is not enough space. 586 00:57:03,602 --> 00:57:07,602 Second, the cost may be higher. 587 00:57:07,602 --> 00:57:15,602 But the current scenario is a new discussion on Bitcoin space and resource pricing. 588 00:57:15,602 --> 00:57:18,602 I think this is a big negative. 589 00:57:18,602 --> 00:57:23,602 The biggest negative is that it affects Bitcoin's fungibility. 590 00:57:23,602 --> 00:57:25,602 Every Bitcoin has a number. 591 00:57:25,602 --> 00:57:30,602 Every Satoshi can put numbers and data. 592 00:57:30,602 --> 00:57:33,602 Then their value may be different. 593 00:57:33,602 --> 00:57:38,602 This is actually contrary to the original intention of Bitcoin and the core of Bitcoin Core. 594 00:57:38,602 --> 00:57:41,602 I think this is the biggest negative. 595 00:57:41,602 --> 00:57:45,602 The second negative is that Bitcoin's on-chain space is very precious. 596 00:57:45,602 --> 00:57:51,602 It has changed from transaction data to data for storing meals. 597 00:57:51,602 --> 00:57:55,602 It has changed from transaction data to images. 598 00:57:55,602 --> 00:57:58,602 It may be meaningless. 599 00:57:58,602 --> 00:58:06,602 I think this kind of attack on the Bitcoin network should be encouraged in the long run. 600 00:58:06,602 --> 00:58:13,602 I think it can be referred to as the gas token before Ethereum. 601 00:58:13,602 --> 00:58:18,602 In the early days, Ethereum set a logic in its virtual machine. 602 00:58:18,602 --> 00:58:23,602 When you destroy an account, you can get some compensation. 603 00:58:23,602 --> 00:58:26,602 Everyone uses this mechanism to drill holes. 604 00:58:26,602 --> 00:58:29,602 When the gas is low, it creates a large number of gas tokens. 605 00:58:29,602 --> 00:58:33,602 When the gas is high, it takes up space again to get some discounts. 606 00:58:33,602 --> 00:58:35,602 But it doesn't really expand. 607 00:58:35,602 --> 00:58:37,602 It didn't solve the fundamental problem. 608 00:58:37,602 --> 00:58:42,602 As the Ethereum upgrade followed, it slowly fixed the problem. 609 00:58:42,602 --> 00:58:47,602 But the repair of this matter is also because everyone can make full use of this matter. 610 00:58:47,602 --> 00:58:50,602 Enlarge it and then put it in the community for a large number of discussions. 611 00:58:50,602 --> 00:58:55,602 It is possible to make these adjustments to the community or this agreement to make some changes. 612 00:58:55,602 --> 00:58:59,602 Although the network and agreement of Bitcoin are not as easy to upgrade as Ethereum. 613 00:58:59,602 --> 00:59:03,602 Or it is to block or remove this restriction. 614 00:59:03,602 --> 00:59:06,602 But I think the community should discuss some better ways. 615 00:59:06,602 --> 00:59:10,602 Even the resources on the chain will be placed in the future. 616 00:59:10,602 --> 00:59:14,602 It may be transferred to some more valuable things. 617 00:59:14,602 --> 00:59:20,602 Not just some traditional or simple pictures or meaningless words. 618 00:59:20,602 --> 00:59:22,602 I think it is very likely to be such a development path. 619 00:59:25,602 --> 00:59:27,602 Thank you for your wonderful speech. 620 00:59:27,602 --> 00:59:29,602 I learned a lot. 621 00:59:29,602 --> 00:59:34,602 For me, I agree with this book. 622 00:59:34,602 --> 00:59:37,602 This is a very interesting attempt. 623 00:59:37,602 --> 00:59:44,602 I think Audino is a revolutionary gunshot and a star fire. 624 00:59:44,602 --> 00:59:49,602 After the surge of Ethereum in Ethereum, 625 00:59:49,602 --> 00:59:52,602 I suddenly thought about it. 626 00:59:52,602 --> 00:59:59,602 We actually have a chain that is safer and more valuable than Ethereum. 627 00:59:59,602 --> 01:00:00,602 It's called Bitcoin. 628 01:00:00,602 --> 01:00:09,602 I think Audino's application of the Bitcoin blockchain space is still relatively pale. 629 01:00:09,602 --> 01:00:15,602 You put this encryption or this picture NFT in it. 630 01:00:15,602 --> 01:00:18,602 Then it can no longer produce more value. 631 01:00:18,602 --> 01:00:20,602 Just put it in, right? 632 01:00:20,602 --> 01:00:25,602 Then we hope that the Bitcoin blockchain space 633 01:00:25,602 --> 01:00:29,602 can become the most precious in the decentralized world. 634 01:00:29,602 --> 01:00:32,602 It is such a storage space. 635 01:00:32,602 --> 01:00:36,602 For example, what can we do with the space of Bitcoin? 636 01:00:36,602 --> 01:00:43,602 It is a popular term called data availability. 637 01:00:43,602 --> 01:00:47,602 But the space of Bitcoin does not allow you to do the so-called normal data availability. 638 01:00:47,602 --> 01:00:51,602 Put all the data on this other chain. 639 01:00:51,602 --> 01:00:58,602 But the space of Bitcoin can be used to provide the strongest anti-monitoring. 640 01:00:58,602 --> 01:01:08,602 If your transaction or data on the other chain is monitored by the validator, 641 01:01:08,602 --> 01:01:10,602 if it is blocked by the sensor, 642 01:01:10,602 --> 01:01:18,602 you can put your transaction on Bitcoin as your last protection measure. 643 01:01:18,602 --> 01:01:22,602 In this way, Bitcoin is equivalent to the Supreme Court. 644 01:01:22,602 --> 01:01:24,602 Or a concept like Weibo exposure 645 01:01:24,602 --> 01:01:27,602 becomes the final security guarantee of the decentralized world. 646 01:01:27,602 --> 01:01:34,602 I think it makes a lot of sense for the decentralized world 647 01:01:34,602 --> 01:01:37,602 to use Bitcoin's blockchain space in this direction. 648 01:01:37,602 --> 01:01:43,602 Because Bitcoin's anti-monitoring is the best in our entire ecosystem. 649 01:01:43,602 --> 01:01:45,602 Thank you. 650 01:01:46,602 --> 01:01:48,602 Yes. 651 01:01:48,602 --> 01:01:52,602 I have been in the open source community for 10 years. 652 01:01:52,602 --> 01:01:57,602 I actually encourage all innovations in the ecosystem of Bitcoin. 653 01:01:57,602 --> 01:01:59,602 Everyone can try it. 654 01:01:59,602 --> 01:02:04,602 Audino's innovation in space storage, 655 01:02:04,602 --> 01:02:07,602 I think we should do it first and then talk about it. 656 01:02:07,602 --> 01:02:14,602 If it can cause some difficulties or challenges for Bitcoin, 657 01:02:14,602 --> 01:02:17,602 the community will solve it. 658 01:02:17,602 --> 01:02:19,602 As you know, 659 01:02:19,602 --> 01:02:23,602 from my point of view, 660 01:02:23,602 --> 01:02:27,602 there are thousands of individual developers behind Bitcoin, 661 01:02:27,602 --> 01:02:31,602 including top cryptographers from various universities around the world, 662 01:02:31,602 --> 01:02:33,602 who are solving this problem. 663 01:02:33,602 --> 01:02:35,602 I think we should do it first and then talk about it. 664 01:02:35,602 --> 01:02:37,602 If there is a problem that day, 665 01:02:37,602 --> 01:02:39,602 there will be a corresponding solution to solve it. 666 01:02:39,602 --> 01:02:43,602 This is my simple opinion. 667 01:02:43,602 --> 01:02:46,602 Because I have not written code for many years. 668 01:02:46,602 --> 01:02:48,602 I have been engaged in the open source community. 669 01:02:48,602 --> 01:02:50,602 I don't know much about the details. 670 01:02:50,602 --> 01:02:54,602 Then I came to learn from Mr. Fitch. 671 01:02:54,602 --> 01:02:57,602 Thank you for your wonderful sharing. 672 01:02:57,602 --> 01:02:59,602 Let's move on to the second question. 673 01:02:59,602 --> 01:03:01,602 As Jack said just now, 674 01:03:01,602 --> 01:03:05,602 we have a lot of technological innovations happening in the open source community. 675 01:03:05,602 --> 01:03:08,602 In fact, we know that Ethereum should be discussed. 676 01:03:08,602 --> 01:03:10,602 The most talked-about topic now is probably ROV, 677 01:03:10,602 --> 01:03:13,602 which is the technology of modularity and scalability. 678 01:03:13,602 --> 01:03:17,602 Now there are some technologies that are being tried on the Bitcoin network. 679 01:03:17,602 --> 01:03:19,602 For example, there was a report last year 680 01:03:19,602 --> 01:03:22,602 about how to implement a ZKROV on the Bitcoin network. 681 01:03:22,602 --> 01:03:25,602 Recently, some projects have made it more detailed. 682 01:03:25,602 --> 01:03:28,602 The ZKROV design that can be implemented on the ground 683 01:03:28,602 --> 01:03:34,602 may have been written in more detail. 684 01:03:34,602 --> 01:03:37,602 I don't know what you think. 685 01:03:37,602 --> 01:03:39,602 The second is on the Bitcoin network. 686 01:03:39,602 --> 01:03:41,602 There may also be a SELESTER. 687 01:03:41,602 --> 01:03:44,602 It also made a technology called ROVKIT. 688 01:03:44,602 --> 01:03:46,602 It can be used to demonstrate a demo. 689 01:03:46,602 --> 01:03:48,602 It can be used on the Bitcoin network. 690 01:03:48,602 --> 01:03:52,602 It can be used as a layer of data scalability in the Bitcoin blockchain space. 691 01:03:52,602 --> 01:03:55,602 I don't know how you feel about the future of Bitcoin. 692 01:03:55,602 --> 01:03:57,602 To build on this network, 693 01:03:57,602 --> 01:03:59,602 such as ROV, 694 01:03:59,602 --> 01:04:01,602 such as modular technology. 695 01:04:01,602 --> 01:04:04,602 I don't know what the possibilities of development will be in the future. 696 01:04:04,602 --> 01:04:06,602 And what do you think of this technology? 697 01:04:06,602 --> 01:04:08,602 Why don't we start with Jack? 698 01:04:12,602 --> 01:04:13,602 OK, thank you. 699 01:04:13,602 --> 01:04:17,602 First of all, I think this problem is actually very much 700 01:04:17,602 --> 01:04:20,602 based on Ethereum as the core of the Bitcoin ecosystem. 701 01:04:20,602 --> 01:04:21,602 Right? 702 01:04:21,602 --> 01:04:23,602 Only people in the Ethereum community 703 01:04:23,602 --> 01:04:25,602 may look at this problem this way. 704 01:04:25,602 --> 01:04:28,602 Because it is indeed a possibility 705 01:04:28,602 --> 01:04:32,602 under the broad topic of the current Web3 circle. 706 01:04:32,602 --> 01:04:35,602 But when we talk about DA, 707 01:04:35,602 --> 01:04:38,602 it is actually a lot of people 708 01:04:38,602 --> 01:04:42,602 will put it and the data layer and the data data 709 01:04:42,602 --> 01:04:44,602 to be able to obtain this thing. 710 01:04:44,602 --> 01:04:46,602 There are some minor differences. 711 01:04:46,602 --> 01:04:48,602 So this data layer is not a data layer. 712 01:04:48,602 --> 01:04:49,602 Right? 713 01:04:49,602 --> 01:04:52,602 We are in the background of this Ethereum. 714 01:04:52,602 --> 01:04:54,602 The DA we are talking about is more of a user. 715 01:04:54,602 --> 01:04:57,602 He actually doesn't really know how to get this data. 716 01:04:57,602 --> 01:04:58,602 Right? 717 01:04:58,602 --> 01:05:00,602 The full node of Ethereum is not necessary. 718 01:05:00,602 --> 01:05:01,602 Or some ordinary nodes 719 01:05:01,602 --> 01:05:02,602 don't need to get this data. 720 01:05:02,602 --> 01:05:05,602 But the solution of the DA layer 721 01:05:05,602 --> 01:05:07,602 provides me with a possibility that 722 01:05:07,602 --> 01:05:10,602 I can use a very small amount of data to verify 723 01:05:10,602 --> 01:05:12,602 whether you have this data in the end. 724 01:05:12,602 --> 01:05:15,602 And can I get this data in the future? 725 01:05:15,602 --> 01:05:17,602 This is the DA layer or the DA solution 726 01:05:17,602 --> 01:05:18,602 to solve the problem. 727 01:05:18,602 --> 01:05:22,602 So like this, this Bitcoin, this, this, 728 01:05:22,602 --> 01:05:24,602 if we stand here, 729 01:05:24,602 --> 01:05:25,602 first of all, we stand in the Celestia 730 01:05:25,602 --> 01:05:26,602 and Ethereum ecosystem. 731 01:05:26,602 --> 01:05:29,602 Celestia's DA and Ethereum's DA 732 01:05:29,602 --> 01:05:32,602 must have undergone long-term evolution 733 01:05:32,602 --> 01:05:34,602 and professional design 734 01:05:34,602 --> 01:05:36,602 to be able to come up with such a solution. 735 01:05:36,602 --> 01:05:38,602 Celestia is a DA designed from scratch. 736 01:05:38,602 --> 01:05:39,602 Right? 737 01:05:39,602 --> 01:05:41,602 It is a protocol that was born for DA. 738 01:05:41,602 --> 01:05:43,602 So its performance 739 01:05:43,602 --> 01:05:46,602 or its DA design 740 01:05:46,602 --> 01:05:48,602 must be relatively advanced. 741 01:05:48,602 --> 01:05:49,602 Because it doesn't have these burdens. 742 01:05:49,602 --> 01:05:51,602 Ethereum, although it has a burden, 743 01:05:51,602 --> 01:05:53,602 but in the future of 4844 744 01:05:53,602 --> 01:05:56,602 and the solution of Dank Sharding, 745 01:05:56,602 --> 01:05:59,602 it will also consider some features 746 01:05:59,602 --> 01:06:02,602 and design some drafts, 747 01:06:02,602 --> 01:06:05,602 sampling, and some DAS solutions 748 01:06:05,602 --> 01:06:07,602 to make the overall DA efficiency higher. 749 01:06:07,602 --> 01:06:09,602 But the Bitcoin network is not 750 01:06:09,602 --> 01:06:12,602 so easy to add these things. 751 01:06:12,602 --> 01:06:14,602 So the DA on Bitcoin 752 01:06:14,602 --> 01:06:16,602 is more of us saying 753 01:06:16,602 --> 01:06:18,602 that we can only store this data. 754 01:06:18,602 --> 01:06:20,602 We store these data on it. 755 01:06:20,602 --> 01:06:22,602 We must be better than Ethereum 756 01:06:22,602 --> 01:06:24,602 in that anti-monitoring. 757 01:06:24,602 --> 01:06:26,602 Because it has enough nodes, right? 758 01:06:26,602 --> 01:06:28,602 It also has a lot of users. 759 01:06:28,602 --> 01:06:29,602 There is no doubt about this. 760 01:06:29,602 --> 01:06:31,602 But if we think about 761 01:06:31,602 --> 01:06:33,602 what the DA on Bitcoin can do, 762 01:06:33,602 --> 01:06:35,602 I think we still have to 763 01:06:35,602 --> 01:06:38,602 throw away the idea of ​​Ethereum. 764 01:06:38,602 --> 01:06:41,602 Because Ethereum is for application. 765 01:06:41,602 --> 01:06:42,602 Right? 766 01:06:42,602 --> 01:06:43,602 If Bitcoin wants to do this DA 767 01:06:43,602 --> 01:06:45,602 and make anti-monitoring better, 768 01:06:45,602 --> 01:06:46,602 I think it is also possible that 769 01:06:46,602 --> 01:06:48,602 it will be more layered in the future. 770 01:06:48,602 --> 01:06:49,602 More important things 771 01:06:49,602 --> 01:06:51,602 or you really need to 772 01:06:51,602 --> 01:06:53,602 go to Bitcoin to save things. 773 01:06:53,602 --> 01:06:55,602 Then you can put it on the DA on Bitcoin. 774 01:06:55,602 --> 01:06:57,602 But other anti-application values are relatively low. 775 01:06:57,602 --> 01:06:58,602 Will it be possible to 776 01:06:58,602 --> 01:07:00,602 return to Ethereum? 777 01:07:00,602 --> 01:07:01,602 It is also possible. 778 01:07:01,602 --> 01:07:03,602 After all, the Bitcoin block space 779 01:07:03,602 --> 01:07:04,602 of Ethereum is limited. 780 01:07:04,602 --> 01:07:05,602 Right? 781 01:07:05,602 --> 01:07:07,602 It's 1M to 4M. 782 01:07:07,602 --> 01:07:08,602 If you really want to expand, 783 01:07:08,602 --> 01:07:10,602 the ecosystem of Bitcoin will not agree. 784 01:07:10,602 --> 01:07:11,602 Right? 785 01:07:11,602 --> 01:07:13,602 We are not born to do applications. 786 01:07:13,602 --> 01:07:14,602 Right? 787 01:07:14,602 --> 01:07:15,602 So I think it is very likely 788 01:07:15,602 --> 01:07:16,602 to be in this state. 789 01:07:20,602 --> 01:07:22,602 Thank you for Mr. Pang's speech. 790 01:07:22,602 --> 01:07:23,602 I agree with you very much. 791 01:07:23,602 --> 01:07:25,602 I even wanted to pat you just now. 792 01:07:25,602 --> 01:07:27,602 We are thinking about 793 01:07:27,602 --> 01:07:31,602 how to make Bitcoin expand. 794 01:07:31,602 --> 01:07:34,602 We don't necessarily need to 795 01:07:34,602 --> 01:07:36,602 think about it with the idea of ​​Ethereum. 796 01:07:36,602 --> 01:07:40,602 Don't follow the idea of ​​Metallic. 797 01:07:40,602 --> 01:07:42,602 Ethereum is Layer 1. 798 01:07:42,602 --> 01:07:43,602 Then I have Layer 2. 799 01:07:43,602 --> 01:07:44,602 Then Layer 3. 800 01:07:44,602 --> 01:07:45,602 Then Roll Up. 801 01:07:45,602 --> 01:07:47,602 Then Data Availability. 802 01:07:47,602 --> 01:07:48,602 Right? 803 01:07:48,602 --> 01:07:50,602 This idea is applicable to Ethereum. 804 01:07:50,602 --> 01:07:52,602 But for Bitcoin, 805 01:07:52,602 --> 01:07:54,602 it may not be applicable. 806 01:07:54,602 --> 01:07:57,602 Then we can briefly review 807 01:07:57,602 --> 01:07:59,602 what the essence of Layer 2 is 808 01:07:59,602 --> 01:08:01,602 in Ethereum. 809 01:08:01,602 --> 01:08:02,602 It is through, for example, 810 01:08:02,602 --> 01:08:03,602 Optimistic Roll Up 811 01:08:03,602 --> 01:08:05,602 to push the execution of this transaction 812 01:08:05,602 --> 01:08:07,602 to the chain. 813 01:08:07,602 --> 01:08:09,602 Then, through DA Layer, 814 01:08:09,602 --> 01:08:12,602 the data is also pushed to the chain. 815 01:08:12,602 --> 01:08:13,602 Then, for example, 816 01:08:13,602 --> 01:08:15,602 through some Coinbase's 817 01:08:15,602 --> 01:08:17,602 Base Superchain, 818 01:08:17,602 --> 01:08:19,602 to make it interoperable 819 01:08:19,602 --> 01:08:22,602 between Layer 2. 820 01:08:22,602 --> 01:08:23,602 So what is the only thing 821 01:08:23,602 --> 01:08:24,602 it can't push out? 822 01:08:24,602 --> 01:08:26,602 It's its security. 823 01:08:26,602 --> 01:08:27,602 It can't push it out. 824 01:08:27,602 --> 01:08:29,602 So, in essence, 825 01:08:29,602 --> 01:08:30,602 Ethereum, 826 01:08:30,602 --> 01:08:32,602 through Layer 2, 827 01:08:32,602 --> 01:08:33,602 it has to do one thing, 828 01:08:33,602 --> 01:08:35,602 which is to push everything out. 829 01:08:35,602 --> 01:08:37,602 Then it provides security 830 01:08:37,602 --> 01:08:38,602 for all these things 831 01:08:38,602 --> 01:08:40,602 that it pushes out. 832 01:08:40,602 --> 01:08:41,602 So this is its essence. 833 01:08:41,602 --> 01:08:43,602 It's just that the technical solution it chooses 834 01:08:43,602 --> 01:08:45,602 is realized through 835 01:08:45,602 --> 01:08:46,602 the concept of layering. 836 01:08:46,602 --> 01:08:50,602 So if we want to scale Bitcoin, 837 01:08:50,602 --> 01:08:52,602 we have to grasp this essence, 838 01:08:52,602 --> 01:08:53,602 the first principle, 839 01:08:53,602 --> 01:08:54,602 instead of following 840 01:08:54,602 --> 01:08:56,602 the concept of layering. 841 01:08:56,602 --> 01:08:57,602 So we say 842 01:08:57,602 --> 01:09:00,602 the essence of scaling Bitcoin 843 01:09:00,602 --> 01:09:02,602 is to let Bitcoin 844 01:09:02,602 --> 01:09:04,602 bring its own security 845 01:09:04,602 --> 01:09:07,602 to other applications 846 01:09:07,602 --> 01:09:08,602 or POS chains. 847 01:09:08,602 --> 01:09:09,602 Right? 848 01:09:09,602 --> 01:09:10,602 This is better. 849 01:09:10,602 --> 01:09:12,602 Then it also brings an advantage here, 850 01:09:12,602 --> 01:09:13,602 which is that we don't need 851 01:09:13,602 --> 01:09:15,602 Ethereum 852 01:09:15,602 --> 01:09:18,602 to build its own ecosystem step by step. 853 01:09:18,602 --> 01:09:20,602 If Bitcoin has a way 854 01:09:20,602 --> 01:09:22,602 to directly bring its own security 855 01:09:22,602 --> 01:09:24,602 to other existing POS chains, 856 01:09:24,602 --> 01:09:26,602 then we can directly form 857 01:09:26,602 --> 01:09:28,602 a big ecosystem 858 01:09:28,602 --> 01:09:29,602 with Bitcoin 859 01:09:29,602 --> 01:09:31,602 as a security core 860 01:09:31,602 --> 01:09:33,602 or a security module, 861 01:09:33,602 --> 01:09:35,602 and wrap all the other 862 01:09:35,602 --> 01:09:37,602 non-Ethereum POS chain ecosystems 863 01:09:37,602 --> 01:09:39,602 into it. 864 01:09:39,602 --> 01:09:40,602 Right. 865 01:09:40,602 --> 01:09:42,602 I think this way 866 01:09:42,602 --> 01:09:44,602 is to let Bitcoin 867 01:09:44,602 --> 01:09:45,602 take a detour 868 01:09:45,602 --> 01:09:47,602 and merge with the ecosystem 869 01:09:47,602 --> 01:09:49,602 of Ethereum 870 01:09:49,602 --> 01:09:50,602 and even 871 01:09:50,602 --> 01:09:53,602 be better than it. 872 01:09:55,602 --> 01:09:56,602 Yes. 873 01:09:56,602 --> 01:09:58,602 I quite agree with 874 01:09:58,602 --> 01:09:59,602 Mr. Fisher's point. 875 01:09:59,602 --> 01:10:01,602 In fact, 876 01:10:01,602 --> 01:10:03,602 the entire crypto industry today 877 01:10:03,602 --> 01:10:06,602 is very much like a country. 878 01:10:06,602 --> 01:10:07,602 Every POS chain 879 01:10:07,602 --> 01:10:08,602 is an ecosystem. 880 01:10:08,602 --> 01:10:09,602 Right? 881 01:10:09,602 --> 01:10:11,602 Every family has its own 882 01:10:11,602 --> 01:10:12,602 hard-to-read scriptures. 883 01:10:12,602 --> 01:10:14,602 From the Ethereum ecosystem 884 01:10:14,602 --> 01:10:15,602 to today, 885 01:10:15,602 --> 01:10:16,602 right? 886 01:10:16,602 --> 01:10:18,602 What exactly is the state 887 01:10:18,602 --> 01:10:20,602 of the Ethereum ecosystem? 888 01:10:20,602 --> 01:10:21,602 We all know that. 889 01:10:21,602 --> 01:10:22,602 Then, 890 01:10:22,602 --> 01:10:23,602 the Ethereum ecosystem 891 01:10:23,602 --> 01:10:25,602 is indeed a very good hot spot. 892 01:10:25,602 --> 01:10:27,602 There is also some room for speculation. 893 01:10:27,602 --> 01:10:28,602 But it is indeed 894 01:10:28,602 --> 01:10:29,602 like what Mr. Pan said 895 01:10:29,602 --> 01:10:31,602 in his first point, 896 01:10:31,602 --> 01:10:32,602 right? 897 01:10:32,602 --> 01:10:33,602 From the perspective of Ethereum, 898 01:10:33,602 --> 01:10:34,602 to look at this, 899 01:10:34,602 --> 01:10:35,602 this, 900 01:10:35,602 --> 01:10:36,602 Bitcoin. 901 01:10:36,602 --> 01:10:38,602 Personally, 902 01:10:38,602 --> 01:10:39,602 I actually prefer 903 01:10:39,602 --> 01:10:41,602 this kind of strategy 904 01:10:41,602 --> 01:10:42,602 to solve 905 01:10:42,602 --> 01:10:43,602 the direction of the entire 906 01:10:43,602 --> 01:10:44,602 Bitcoin expansion. 907 01:10:44,602 --> 01:10:45,602 Yes. 908 01:10:45,602 --> 01:10:46,602 Then, 909 01:10:46,602 --> 01:10:48,602 we will also see some opportunities. 910 01:10:48,602 --> 01:10:49,602 Just now, 911 01:10:49,602 --> 01:10:50,602 the last guest, 912 01:10:50,602 --> 01:10:51,602 Paul's speech, 913 01:10:51,602 --> 01:10:52,602 the so-called BIP300 914 01:10:52,602 --> 01:10:53,602 and 301, 915 01:10:53,602 --> 01:10:54,602 some of these proposals, 916 01:10:54,602 --> 01:10:55,602 are not necessarily 917 01:10:55,602 --> 01:10:56,602 a possibility, 918 01:10:56,602 --> 01:10:57,602 right? 919 01:10:57,602 --> 01:10:58,602 This, 920 01:10:58,602 --> 01:10:59,602 my personal feeling 921 01:10:59,602 --> 01:11:00,602 may be 922 01:11:00,602 --> 01:11:01,602 iPhone, 923 01:11:01,602 --> 01:11:02,602 no, 924 01:11:02,602 --> 01:11:03,602 Bitcoin 2.0 925 01:11:03,602 --> 01:11:05,602 or Bitcoin iPhone Moment, 926 01:11:05,602 --> 01:11:06,602 right? 927 01:11:06,602 --> 01:11:07,602 Because Paul wrote 928 01:11:07,602 --> 01:11:08,602 an article before, 929 01:11:08,602 --> 01:11:09,602 that is, 930 01:11:09,602 --> 01:11:10,602 the network security 931 01:11:10,602 --> 01:11:12,602 of Bitcoin. 932 01:11:12,602 --> 01:11:15,602 If the reward of mining 933 01:11:15,602 --> 01:11:17,602 gradually returns to zero, 934 01:11:17,602 --> 01:11:18,602 it is not enough 935 01:11:18,602 --> 01:11:19,602 to support 936 01:11:19,602 --> 01:11:20,602 its mining costs, 937 01:11:20,602 --> 01:11:21,602 is the entire network 938 01:11:21,602 --> 01:11:22,602 safe? 939 01:11:22,602 --> 01:11:23,602 Is the entire 940 01:11:23,602 --> 01:11:24,602 industry safe? 941 01:11:24,602 --> 01:11:25,602 Yes. 942 01:11:25,602 --> 01:11:26,602 So, 943 01:11:26,602 --> 01:11:27,602 he is actively 944 01:11:27,602 --> 01:11:28,602 pushing this, 945 01:11:28,602 --> 01:11:29,602 this, 946 01:11:29,602 --> 01:11:30,602 this, 947 01:11:30,602 --> 01:11:31,602 yes, 948 01:11:31,602 --> 01:11:32,602 the direction of 949 01:11:32,602 --> 01:11:33,602 Drivechain, 950 01:11:33,602 --> 01:11:34,602 etc. 951 01:11:34,602 --> 01:11:35,602 I am also quite optimistic about this. 952 01:11:35,602 --> 01:11:36,602 Yes. 953 01:11:36,602 --> 01:11:37,602 This, 954 01:11:37,602 --> 01:11:38,602 this, 955 01:11:38,602 --> 01:11:39,602 this layer zero level of 956 01:11:39,602 --> 01:11:40,602 our own concept 957 01:11:40,602 --> 01:11:41,602 called layer base 958 01:11:41,602 --> 01:11:42,602 Yes. 959 01:11:42,602 --> 01:11:43,602 Because 960 01:11:43,602 --> 01:11:44,602 our view today 961 01:11:44,602 --> 01:11:45,602 believes that 962 01:11:45,602 --> 01:11:46,602 the entire industry 963 01:11:46,602 --> 01:11:47,602 is still 964 01:11:47,602 --> 01:11:48,602 a very early stage. 965 01:11:48,602 --> 01:11:49,602 Just 14 years. 966 01:11:49,602 --> 01:11:50,602 Yes. 967 01:11:50,602 --> 01:11:51,602 From 300 million 968 01:11:51,602 --> 01:11:52,602 to more than 100 thousand 969 01:11:52,602 --> 01:11:53,602 shrinking the entire 970 01:11:53,602 --> 01:11:54,602 industry, 971 01:11:54,602 --> 01:11:55,602 more chain needs 972 01:11:55,602 --> 01:11:56,602 more possibilities. 973 01:11:56,602 --> 01:11:57,602 Of course, 974 01:11:57,602 --> 01:11:58,602 this Bitcoin 975 01:11:58,602 --> 01:11:59,602 side has a vote. 976 01:11:59,602 --> 01:12:00,602 I call it conservative 977 01:12:00,602 --> 01:12:01,602 myself. 978 01:12:01,602 --> 01:12:02,602 Would you 979 01:12:02,602 --> 01:12:03,602 like to 980 01:12:03,602 --> 01:12:04,602 this change 981 01:12:04,602 --> 01:12:05,602 and let it 982 01:12:05,602 --> 01:12:06,602 this right 983 01:12:06,602 --> 01:12:07,602 SDV 984 01:12:07,602 --> 01:12:08,602 SDV 985 01:12:08,602 --> 01:12:09,602 this is OK. 986 01:12:09,602 --> 01:12:10,602 But I think 987 01:12:10,602 --> 01:12:11,602 right 988 01:12:11,602 --> 01:12:12,602 just like 989 01:12:12,602 --> 01:12:13,602 this Bitcoin 990 01:12:13,602 --> 01:12:14,602 is a 10-year-old 991 01:12:14,602 --> 01:12:15,602 child 992 01:12:15,602 --> 01:12:16,602 14-year-old 993 01:12:16,602 --> 01:12:17,602 child 994 01:12:17,602 --> 01:12:18,602 you are willing to 995 01:12:18,602 --> 01:12:19,602 let him 996 01:12:19,602 --> 01:12:20,602 drink pure water 997 01:12:20,602 --> 01:12:21,602 every day 998 01:12:21,602 --> 01:12:22,602 hide in the 999 01:12:22,602 --> 01:12:23,602 greenhouse 1000 01:12:23,602 --> 01:12:24,602 or 1001 01:12:24,602 --> 01:12:25,602 let him 1002 01:12:25,602 --> 01:12:26,602 go to society 1003 01:12:26,602 --> 01:12:27,602 to try more 1004 01:12:27,602 --> 01:12:28,602 possibilities 1005 01:12:28,602 --> 01:12:29,602 right 1006 01:12:29,602 --> 01:12:30,602 so 1007 01:12:30,602 --> 01:12:31,602 my 1008 01:12:31,602 --> 01:12:32,602 one view 1009 01:12:32,602 --> 01:12:33,602 is 1010 01:12:33,602 --> 01:12:34,602 reformist 1011 01:12:34,602 --> 01:12:35,602 this 1012 01:12:35,602 --> 01:12:36,602 various 1013 01:12:36,602 --> 01:12:37,602 attempts 1014 01:12:37,602 --> 01:12:38,602 and 1015 01:12:38,602 --> 01:12:39,602 many people 1016 01:12:39,602 --> 01:12:40,602 may have 1017 01:12:40,602 --> 01:12:41,602 forgotten 1018 01:12:41,602 --> 01:12:42,602 a fact 1019 01:12:42,602 --> 01:12:43,602 what is the 1020 01:12:43,602 --> 01:12:44,602 blockchain 1021 01:12:44,602 --> 01:12:45,602 blockchain 1022 01:12:45,602 --> 01:12:46,602 is first 1023 01:12:46,602 --> 01:12:47,602 an open source 1024 01:12:47,602 --> 01:12:48,602 software 1025 01:12:48,602 --> 01:12:49,602 open source 1026 01:12:49,602 --> 01:12:50,602 software 1027 01:12:50,602 --> 01:12:51,602 means 1028 01:12:51,602 --> 01:12:52,602 what 1029 01:12:52,602 --> 01:12:53,602 is to 1030 01:12:53,602 --> 01:12:54,602 tolerate 1031 01:12:54,602 --> 01:12:55,602 various 1032 01:12:55,602 --> 01:12:56,602 attempts 1033 01:12:56,602 --> 01:12:57,602 to try 1034 01:12:57,602 --> 01:12:58,602 right 1035 01:12:58,602 --> 01:12:59,602 and then 1036 01:12:59,602 --> 01:13:00,602 in case 1037 01:13:00,602 --> 01:13:01,602 run out 1038 01:13:01,602 --> 01:13:02,602 right 1039 01:13:02,602 --> 01:13:03,602 this is 1040 01:13:03,602 --> 01:13:04,602 your 1041 01:13:04,602 --> 01:13:05,602 child 1042 01:13:05,602 --> 01:13:06,602 right 1043 01:13:06,602 --> 01:13:07,602 and 1044 01:13:07,602 --> 01:13:08,602 so 1045 01:13:08,602 --> 01:13:09,602 you 1046 01:13:09,602 --> 01:13:10,602 secure 1047 01:13:10,602 --> 01:13:11,602 linear 1048 01:13:11,602 --> 01:13:12,602 security 1049 01:13:12,602 --> 01:13:13,602 and 1050 01:13:13,602 --> 01:13:14,602 free 1051 01:13:14,602 --> 01:13:15,602 internet 1052 01:13:15,602 --> 01:13:16,602 you 1053 01:13:16,602 --> 01:13:17,602 are 1054 01:13:17,602 --> 01:13:18,602 ready 1055 01:13:18,602 --> 01:13:19,602 and 1056 01:13:19,602 --> 01:13:20,602 you 1057 01:13:20,602 --> 01:13:21,602 don't 1058 01:13:21,602 --> 01:13:22,602 care 1059 01:13:22,602 --> 01:13:23,602 right 1060 01:13:23,602 --> 01:13:24,602 and 1061 01:13:24,602 --> 01:13:25,602 as 1062 01:13:25,602 --> 01:13:27,602 for 1063 01:13:27,602 --> 01:13:28,602 majority 1064 01:13:28,602 --> 01:13:29,602 people 1065 01:13:29,602 --> 01:13:30,602 media 1066 01:13:30,602 --> 01:13:31,602 or 1067 01:13:31,602 --> 01:13:32,602 of 1068 01:13:32,602 --> 01:13:34,602 the 1069 01:13:34,602 --> 01:13:35,602 dramatic 1070 01:13:35,602 --> 01:13:36,602 sense 1071 01:13:36,602 --> 01:13:37,602 but 1072 01:13:37,602 --> 01:13:39,602 what 1073 01:13:39,602 --> 01:13:40,602 you 1074 01:13:40,602 --> 01:13:41,602 care 1075 01:13:41,602 --> 01:13:42,602 about 1076 01:13:42,602 --> 01:13:43,602 what 1077 01:13:43,602 --> 01:13:46,602 you 1078 01:13:46,602 --> 01:13:49,602 can 1079 01:13:49,602 --> 01:13:50,602 do 1080 01:13:50,602 --> 01:13:51,602 is 1081 01:13:51,602 --> 01:13:52,602 something 1082 01:13:52,602 --> 01:13:53,602 that 1083 01:13:53,602 --> 01:13:54,602 you 1084 01:13:54,602 --> 01:13:55,602 don't 1085 01:13:55,602 --> 01:13:56,602 need 1086 01:13:56,602 --> 01:13:57,602 and 1087 01:13:57,602 --> 01:13:58,602 so 1088 01:13:58,602 --> 01:13:59,602 as 1089 01:13:59,602 --> 01:14:00,602 so 1090 01:14:00,602 --> 01:14:01,602 right 1091 01:14:01,602 --> 01:14:02,602 now 1092 01:14:02,602 --> 01:14:03,602 I 1093 01:14:03,602 --> 01:14:04,602 don't 1094 01:14:04,602 --> 01:14:05,602 know 1095 01:14:05,602 --> 01:14:06,602 what 1096 01:14:06,602 --> 01:14:07,602 you 1097 01:14:07,602 --> 01:14:08,602 care 1098 01:14:08,602 --> 01:14:09,602 about 1099 01:14:09,602 --> 01:14:10,602 what 1100 01:14:10,602 --> 01:14:11,602 you 1101 01:14:11,602 --> 01:14:12,602 can 1102 01:14:12,602 --> 01:14:13,602 do 1103 01:14:13,602 --> 01:14:14,602 is 1104 01:14:14,602 --> 01:14:15,602 something 1105 01:14:15,602 --> 01:14:16,602 that 1106 01:14:16,602 --> 01:14:17,602 you 1107 01:14:17,602 --> 01:14:18,602 don't 1108 01:14:18,602 --> 01:14:19,602 need 1109 01:14:19,602 --> 01:14:20,602 and 1110 01:14:20,602 --> 01:14:21,602 so 1111 01:14:21,602 --> 01:14:22,602 right 1112 01:14:22,602 --> 01:14:23,602 now 1113 01:14:23,602 --> 01:14:24,602 I 1114 01:14:24,602 --> 01:14:25,602 don't 1115 01:14:25,602 --> 01:14:26,602 know 1116 01:14:26,602 --> 01:14:27,602 what 1117 01:14:27,602 --> 01:14:28,602 you 1118 01:14:28,602 --> 01:14:29,602 care 1119 01:14:29,602 --> 01:14:30,602 about 1120 01:14:30,602 --> 01:14:31,602 what 1121 01:14:31,602 --> 01:14:32,602 you 1122 01:14:32,602 --> 01:14:33,602 can 1123 01:14:33,602 --> 01:14:34,602 do 1124 01:14:34,602 --> 01:14:35,602 is 1125 01:14:35,602 --> 01:14:36,602 something 1126 01:14:36,602 --> 01:14:37,602 that 1127 01:14:37,602 --> 01:14:38,602 you 1128 01:14:38,602 --> 01:14:39,602 don't 1129 01:14:39,602 --> 01:14:40,602 need 1130 01:14:40,602 --> 01:14:41,602 and 1131 01:14:41,602 --> 01:14:42,602 so 1132 01:14:42,602 --> 01:14:43,602 right 1133 01:14:43,602 --> 01:14:44,602 now 1134 01:14:44,602 --> 01:14:45,602 I 1135 01:14:45,602 --> 01:14:46,602 don't 1136 01:14:46,602 --> 01:14:47,602 know 1137 01:14:47,602 --> 01:14:48,602 what 1138 01:14:48,602 --> 01:14:49,602 you 1139 01:14:49,602 --> 01:14:50,602 care 1140 01:14:50,602 --> 01:14:51,602 about 1141 01:14:51,602 --> 01:14:52,602 what 1142 01:14:52,602 --> 01:14:53,602 you 1143 01:14:53,602 --> 01:14:54,602 can 1144 01:14:54,602 --> 01:14:55,602 do 1145 01:14:55,602 --> 01:14:56,602 is 1146 01:14:56,602 --> 01:14:57,602 something 1147 01:14:57,602 --> 01:14:58,602 that 1148 01:14:58,602 --> 01:14:59,602 you 1149 01:19:30,602 --> 01:19:31,602 don't 1150 01:19:31,602 --> 01:19:32,602 need 1151 01:19:32,602 --> 01:19:33,602 and 1152 01:19:33,602 --> 01:19:34,602 so 1153 01:19:34,602 --> 01:19:35,602 right 1154 01:19:35,602 --> 01:19:36,602 now 1155 01:19:36,602 --> 01:19:37,602 I 1156 01:19:37,602 --> 01:19:38,602 don't 1157 01:19:38,602 --> 01:19:39,602 know 1158 01:19:39,602 --> 01:19:40,602 what 1159 01:19:40,602 --> 01:19:41,602 you 1160 01:19:41,602 --> 01:19:42,602 care 1161 01:19:42,602 --> 01:19:43,602 about 1162 01:19:43,602 --> 01:19:44,602 what 1163 01:19:44,602 --> 01:19:45,602 you 1164 01:19:45,602 --> 01:19:46,602 can 1165 01:19:46,602 --> 01:19:47,602 do 1166 01:19:47,602 --> 01:19:48,602 is 1167 01:19:48,602 --> 01:19:49,602 something 1168 01:19:49,602 --> 01:19:50,602 that 1169 01:19:50,602 --> 01:19:51,602 you 1170 01:19:51,602 --> 01:19:52,602 don't 1171 01:19:52,602 --> 01:19:53,602 need 1172 01:19:53,602 --> 01:19:54,602 and 1173 01:19:54,602 --> 01:19:55,602 so 1174 01:19:55,602 --> 01:19:56,602 right 1175 01:19:56,602 --> 01:19:56,682 now 1176 01:20:24,682 --> 01:20:51,682 这个基建的时候应该需要什么样的一个跨链桥对所以这个是我们这四年的探讨四五十号人这个极客为了梦想对然后探探索对所以说我们觉得这个这个今年是很关键的这样一个一年然后在这个周期里边可能迎来了bitcoin的iphone moment会有更多的应用出来 1177 01:20:52,682 --> 01:21:10,382 会迎来整个行业的http的moment对因为今天的流动性中心化的桥中心化的交易所垄断了流动性对核心的因为整个行业的本质私钥的管理 1178 01:21:10,382 --> 01:21:16,382 私钥1.0就像小狐狸ok对吧一整片私钥助纪词那私钥2.0可以分片了 1179 01:21:17,882 --> 01:21:27,182 基因发生了变化整个行业的会面发生变化对所以说我们觉得布尔是整个行业的web3的swift或者web3的http 1180 01:21:28,182 --> 01:21:33,082 把行业能够带下下一个时代就像互联网刚开始的时候或者是 1181 01:21:34,082 --> 01:21:39,082 iphone出来的时候那个对于这种我们自己观点叫全面资产的创造 1182 01:21:40,082 --> 01:21:47,082 然后全面应用的创造那它的一个实现任意链之间任意消息的跨就非常的关键 1183 01:21:48,082 --> 01:21:54,082 够不够优雅一切才刚刚开始整个行业才14年对我就啰嗦这么多不好意思 1184 01:21:54,082 --> 01:22:01,082 那我来讲一讲我对比特币跨链的一些理解吧 1185 01:22:02,082 --> 01:22:09,082 我在我看来比特币跨链最安全的方式就是不要跨链 1186 01:22:10,082 --> 01:22:15,082 就是为什么我们说要做比特币跨链我们的目的是什么跨链它并不是一个目标 1187 01:22:16,082 --> 01:22:23,082 它是一个手段我们跨链的目标是让比特币在被挖出来之后能产生更多的价值 1188 01:22:24,082 --> 01:22:29,082 能产生更多的utility对吧那么现在最流行的方式是一个叫做跨链桥的这种方式 1189 01:22:30,082 --> 01:22:36,082 让它产生把比特币跨到其他的链上然后去做事情然后产生收益这是一个方向 1190 01:22:37,082 --> 01:22:43,082 另外一个方向是把比特币交给一个中心化的交易所去做lending service 1191 01:22:44,082 --> 01:22:47,082 去产生利息的收益那么这两个方式其实都不安全 1192 01:22:48,082 --> 01:22:50,082 你要么你要相信一个中心化的交易所 1193 01:22:50,082 --> 01:22:53,082 你要么你要相信这个跨链桥的所有者 1194 01:22:54,082 --> 01:23:00,082 所以说它并不是一个很安全的让比特币能产生额外价值的方式 1195 01:23:01,082 --> 01:23:06,082 那么我们跟很多的比特币社区的stakeholder有聊过 1196 01:23:07,082 --> 01:23:14,082 他们对于比特币的增值的需求是我大概说我们大概有5%的收益就可以了 1197 01:23:15,082 --> 01:23:18,082 但是我们要求它安全只要它能安全 1198 01:23:19,082 --> 01:23:25,082 那么他们就愿意去把比特币拿出去对对对安全是重中之重 1199 01:23:26,082 --> 01:23:30,082 但是你只要把比特币跨到另外一条链上 1200 01:23:31,082 --> 01:23:34,082 就刚才就跟潘老师讲的你一定因为网络的安全性的不对等性 1201 01:23:35,082 --> 01:23:38,082 就会一定会有产生攻击矩阵的可能性 1202 01:23:38,082 --> 01:23:41,082 所以说我在我们Bobby这个团队看来 1203 01:23:42,082 --> 01:23:48,082 能真正的让比特币能在其他的生态里面发挥作用的方式 1204 01:23:49,082 --> 01:23:53,082 绝对是让它不要跨链也可以让它发挥作用的这样一个方式 1205 01:23:54,082 --> 01:24:02,082 所以这也是我们团队在集中我们的经历正在研发的这样一个方向 1206 01:24:03,082 --> 01:24:05,082 对好谢谢谢谢各位嘉宾 1207 01:24:05,082 --> 01:24:09,082 对其实刚才说到跨链那么其实跨链的一个基本原动力 1208 01:24:10,082 --> 01:24:13,082 也是因为想要把比特币比如到其跨到其他网络上面产生一定的 1209 01:24:14,082 --> 01:24:20,082 比如说放到其他应用里面比如说借贷或者其他交易的这种应用里面去做更多的尝试 1210 01:24:21,082 --> 01:24:24,082 那么实际上最近也有一个概念比较火叫BTC FI 1211 01:24:25,082 --> 01:24:26,082 其实也是借了一个这种define的 1212 01:24:27,082 --> 01:24:28,082 我自己感觉也是借了一个define的这种一个概念 1213 01:24:29,082 --> 01:24:33,082 那么包括现在其实也有一些比特币上更多的基础设施的出现 1214 01:24:33,082 --> 01:24:38,082 可能也会能去很好支撑比特币在可能在不跨链的情况下 1215 01:24:39,082 --> 01:24:41,082 进行这种类似于链上金融应用的一些尝试 1216 01:24:42,082 --> 01:24:47,082 像比如说RGB Taro或者像DLC这种各种各样的协议其实也在诞生 1217 01:24:48,082 --> 01:24:54,082 那我不知道各位嘉宾怎么看这类在比特币上叫所谓BTC FI的这类应用及基础设施 1218 01:24:55,082 --> 01:24:58,082 以及不知道未来是否会随着这些基础设施的诞生 1219 01:24:59,082 --> 01:25:01,082 可能我们是否会迎来一个BTC的define summer 1220 01:25:01,082 --> 01:25:05,082 我们只有再用一点点时间我们再进行一些这方面探讨 1221 01:25:06,082 --> 01:25:07,082 要不还是潘老师开始 1222 01:25:08,082 --> 01:25:09,082 对就是这个首先啊 1223 01:25:10,082 --> 01:25:14,082 我觉得这个问题也是因为以太坊生态最开始把define做的非常大 1224 01:25:15,082 --> 01:25:16,082 所以大家就开始关注对吧 1225 01:25:17,082 --> 01:25:20,082 BTC是不是也可以这个在define这边可以投入更多 1226 01:25:21,082 --> 01:25:23,082 或者是能变成一个define为导向的 1227 01:25:24,082 --> 01:25:29,082 但这件事情呢其实比特币本身也因为它的诞生也是因为在2008年之后 1228 01:25:29,082 --> 01:25:33,082 对吧也是因为大家这个匿名的创始人 1229 01:25:34,082 --> 01:25:40,082 对于这个现有金融体系的这个排斥才做的这个BTC的这个协议 1230 01:25:41,082 --> 01:25:44,082 但是呢它和以太坊还是存在着非常大的 1231 01:25:45,082 --> 01:25:52,082 整个无论从社区还是这个生态或者是整体的一个mindset 1232 01:25:53,082 --> 01:25:54,082 或者是这个思维模式的不同的 1233 01:25:55,082 --> 01:25:57,082 那BTC的这个网络大家更关注的安全性 1234 01:25:57,082 --> 01:26:00,082 其实是放在一个优先级非常高的一个位置的 1235 01:26:01,082 --> 01:26:03,082 所以其实BTC的硬分叉已经很多年 1236 01:26:04,082 --> 01:26:06,082 好很多年没有过硬分叉了就软分叉升级 1237 01:26:07,082 --> 01:26:11,082 那以太坊呢还是在一年一到两次的硬分叉升级的频率对吧 1238 01:26:12,082 --> 01:26:13,082 就在那个昨天早上今天早上 1239 01:26:14,082 --> 01:26:19,082 那个对吧就就就就开放了那个那个那个也是也是这个这个一次硬分叉吧 1240 01:26:20,082 --> 01:26:21,082 对吧那能提款 1241 01:26:22,082 --> 01:26:23,082 所以说这个上海升级对吧 1242 01:26:23,082 --> 01:26:24,082 上海升级对吧 1243 01:26:24,082 --> 01:26:25,082 所以说这个 1244 01:26:26,082 --> 01:26:30,082 呃这两个这个这个这个社区的不同就会带来比特币生态 1245 01:26:31,082 --> 01:26:33,082 如果说你要做这个和金融方向的事情 1246 01:26:34,082 --> 01:26:35,082 他一定是非常谨慎的 1247 01:26:36,082 --> 01:26:38,082 因为协议层他第一他不怎么变动 1248 01:26:39,082 --> 01:26:43,082 第二他他他他他的这个扩容的这个效果也相对比较限制 1249 01:26:44,082 --> 01:26:47,082 所以说我会觉得如果比特币的这个金融方向 1250 01:26:48,082 --> 01:26:49,082 他能能发展的更好的话 1251 01:26:49,082 --> 01:26:50,082 一个大前提就是 1252 01:26:51,082 --> 01:26:56,082 应该要先把闪电网络或者是支付这么这么一个大大大赛道能很好的掌握 1253 01:26:57,082 --> 01:26:58,082 因为你看以太坊的这个低范 1254 01:26:59,082 --> 01:27:02,082 我们除了这个这个这个投机的需求之外 1255 01:27:03,082 --> 01:27:06,082 其实最大的真的能出圈的或者是非常泛用的需求 1256 01:27:07,082 --> 01:27:09,082 就是跨国的结算或者是美元的这个结算 1257 01:27:10,082 --> 01:27:12,082 很多人都会用USDT USDC啊对吧 1258 01:27:13,082 --> 01:27:14,082 做一些跨境的结算啊什么的 1259 01:27:15,082 --> 01:27:16,082 这是一个非常天然的需求 1260 01:27:16,082 --> 01:27:20,082 那BTC的话对于小额支付或者是这个这个的闪电网络 1261 01:27:21,082 --> 01:27:22,082 对于这些小额支付的支持 1262 01:27:23,082 --> 01:27:26,082 如果说能加上Tarot或者是更多稳定类的资产 1263 01:27:27,082 --> 01:27:28,082 更大家接受度更广的这个资产 1264 01:27:29,082 --> 01:27:32,082 我觉得这个也是一个非常好的切入金融的机会 1265 01:27:33,082 --> 01:27:35,082 那你把大这种小规模支付做完之后 1266 01:27:36,082 --> 01:27:41,082 那其他的这个这个需要大量的程序或者是安全性有限制的 1267 01:27:42,082 --> 01:27:43,082 我觉得可能要交给未来的 1268 01:27:43,082 --> 01:27:46,082 在Tarot的升级之后的这个这个更多开发者的 1269 01:27:47,082 --> 01:27:48,082 慢慢的最底层的这些调整 1270 01:27:49,082 --> 01:27:52,082 才可能这个产生一些和金融相关的应用 1271 01:27:53,082 --> 01:27:56,082 那他一定是一个非常时间比较跨度比较长的一个事情 1272 01:27:57,082 --> 01:27:59,082 他不太可能在短短时间内实现 1273 01:28:00,082 --> 01:28:01,082 对 1274 01:28:04,082 --> 01:28:06,082 OK呃在我看来呢 1275 01:28:07,082 --> 01:28:09,082 Bitcoin fight是一个非常好的一个概念 1276 01:28:10,082 --> 01:28:11,082 但是他要迎来他的爆发 1277 01:28:11,082 --> 01:28:14,082 我觉得有有两个点需要做到 1278 01:28:15,082 --> 01:28:16,082 第一个点就是在技术方面 1279 01:28:17,082 --> 01:28:19,082 需要做到能让Bitcoin在非常安全的情况下 1280 01:28:20,082 --> 01:28:24,082 能把它的价值呃流到这个POS的生态里面去 1281 01:28:25,082 --> 01:28:26,082 例如通过比如说叫做BTC Staking 1282 01:28:27,082 --> 01:28:28,082 比特币质押的这个方式 1283 01:28:29,082 --> 01:28:31,082 在呃保证安全的情况下 1284 01:28:32,082 --> 01:28:36,082 让他成为这个其他POSchain的这个安全性的保障 1285 01:28:37,082 --> 01:28:38,082 或者我们说比特币 1286 01:28:38,082 --> 01:28:39,082 它是一个Digital Gold 1287 01:28:40,082 --> 01:28:41,082 它是黄金 1288 01:28:42,082 --> 01:28:43,082 它可以成为其他POSchain 1289 01:28:44,082 --> 01:28:46,082 或者相当于其他国家的这个储备金 1290 01:28:47,082 --> 01:28:48,082 黄金储备或者甚至美元储备 1291 01:28:49,082 --> 01:28:50,082 那么这个怎么样安全的 1292 01:28:51,082 --> 01:28:53,082 并且在技术上能实现这个事情 1293 01:28:54,082 --> 01:28:56,082 是Bitcoin fight成功的一个关键点 1294 01:28:57,082 --> 01:28:58,082 那么另外一个关键点呢 1295 01:28:59,082 --> 01:29:00,082 是这个经济模型的一个设计 1296 01:29:01,082 --> 01:29:03,082 因为呃你当你Bitcoin的这个市值 1297 01:29:04,082 --> 01:29:06,082 是远远大于任何其他的这个生态的 1298 01:29:06,082 --> 01:29:10,082 那么一旦Bitcoin作为黄金或者是美国国债 1299 01:29:11,082 --> 01:29:14,082 这样一种形式存在于其他国家的这个 1300 01:29:15,082 --> 01:29:16,082 这个这个黄金储备 1301 01:29:17,082 --> 01:29:20,082 这个储备过程中对他本身的这个货币的价值 1302 01:29:21,082 --> 01:29:23,082 对他本身这个生态会带来什么样的影响 1303 01:29:24,082 --> 01:29:28,082 这个是一个非常值得探讨的一个开放性的问题 1304 01:29:29,082 --> 01:29:31,082 如果这个问题呃不解决好的话 1305 01:29:32,082 --> 01:29:34,082 那么即便技术上我们能实现呃 1306 01:29:34,082 --> 01:29:38,082 这个比特币的这个安全性和这个比特币的这个 1307 01:29:39,082 --> 01:29:41,082 币本身的这个这个价值的流通 1308 01:29:42,082 --> 01:29:44,082 那么如果经济模型做的不好的话 1309 01:29:45,082 --> 01:29:47,082 那这个事情可能可能可能危险性还是会很高 1310 01:29:48,082 --> 01:29:50,082 所以说呃我们非常的欢迎呃 1311 01:29:51,082 --> 01:29:52,082 大家来一起来探讨这个问题 1312 01:29:53,082 --> 01:29:58,082 来让比特币能真正的成为去中心化世界的一个基石 1313 01:29:58,082 --> 01:30:01,082 OK啊 1314 01:30:02,082 --> 01:30:04,082 BTC FI这样一种叫法 1315 01:30:05,082 --> 01:30:06,082 我觉得蛮蛮内商的 1316 01:30:07,082 --> 01:30:09,082 包括其实整个行业就是ETH FI 1317 01:30:10,082 --> 01:30:12,082 Solana FI BNB FI 1318 01:30:13,082 --> 01:30:15,082 我重复一下刚刚的一个观点 1319 01:30:16,082 --> 01:30:17,082 整个行业今天还在单机时代 1320 01:30:18,082 --> 01:30:20,082 行业还没有很能够很去中心化的 1321 01:30:21,082 --> 01:30:24,082 把这个网线各条链之间这个网网线网口给插起来 1322 01:30:25,082 --> 01:30:26,082 谈上面的应用 1323 01:30:26,082 --> 01:30:28,082 今天热热闹闹的对吧 1324 01:30:29,082 --> 01:30:31,082 这个各种会场包括丹佛 1325 01:30:32,082 --> 01:30:33,082 上面谈各种应用 1326 01:30:34,082 --> 01:30:35,082 都是单机应用啊 1327 01:30:36,082 --> 01:30:39,082 和我们早期玩的这个单机弹吃弹吃蛇啊 1328 01:30:40,082 --> 01:30:42,082 扑克牌啊这个一样的道理 1329 01:30:43,082 --> 01:30:45,082 他的资产呢才整个行业才1万亿 1330 01:30:46,082 --> 01:30:49,082 然后那另外但是我充满期待 1331 01:30:50,082 --> 01:30:51,082 这个是现状充满期待 1332 01:30:52,082 --> 01:30:54,082 如果要谈BTC FI很关键的 1333 01:30:54,082 --> 01:30:56,082 一插上网线而且网线足够安全 1334 01:30:57,082 --> 01:30:59,082 能够因为它涉及到资产的这个流动 1335 01:31:00,082 --> 01:31:02,082 二得消息的流动 1336 01:31:03,082 --> 01:31:04,082 那对于整个行业来讲 1337 01:31:05,082 --> 01:31:07,082 也不仅仅只是比特币这个生态 1338 01:31:08,082 --> 01:31:09,082 那还有其他链呢对吧 1339 01:31:10,082 --> 01:31:12,082 怎么样能够让消息让资产 1340 01:31:13,082 --> 01:31:14,082 FT和NFT这么最简单的资产 1341 01:31:15,082 --> 01:31:17,082 能够以最去中心化的方式 1342 01:31:18,082 --> 01:31:20,082 然后最低成本的一种方式 1343 01:31:21,082 --> 01:31:22,082 最安全的一种方式 1344 01:31:22,082 --> 01:31:23,082 去自由流动 1345 01:31:24,082 --> 01:31:26,082 这个是整个行业的很大的一个挑战 1346 01:31:27,082 --> 01:31:28,082 今天很嗨这么多 1347 01:31:29,082 --> 01:31:31,082 但我觉得咱们还在单机时代 1348 01:31:32,082 --> 01:31:34,082 这个从基建层面我连接 1349 01:31:35,082 --> 01:31:36,082 那从流动性来讲 1350 01:31:37,082 --> 01:31:40,082 对吧CX们整个把行业流动性都垄断了 1351 01:31:41,082 --> 01:31:42,082 号称整个行业的正统性 1352 01:31:43,082 --> 01:31:44,082 或者是KOL对吧 1353 01:31:45,082 --> 01:31:46,082 怎么干这件事怎么干对吧 1354 01:31:47,082 --> 01:31:48,082 这个被中心化的对吧 1355 01:31:49,082 --> 01:31:50,082 这个一个号称去中心化的这么行业啊 1356 01:31:50,082 --> 01:31:52,082 对这是我的第二点观点 1357 01:31:53,082 --> 01:31:57,082 要拿回连接的去中心化的这样一个权利 1358 01:31:58,082 --> 01:32:02,082 要拿回我们整个Crypto社区的流动性 1359 01:32:03,082 --> 01:32:04,082 以去中心化的一种方式 1360 01:32:05,082 --> 01:32:06,082 对这是第二点 1361 01:32:07,082 --> 01:32:10,082 那第三点最后简单五秒钟说一下 1362 01:32:11,082 --> 01:32:14,082 确实要实现Betaflight生态的繁荣 1363 01:32:15,082 --> 01:32:16,082 安全是第一件 1364 01:32:17,082 --> 01:32:18,082 跨链是很刚需的 1365 01:32:18,082 --> 01:32:19,082 我们布尔网络已经实现了 1366 01:32:20,082 --> 01:32:21,082 测试网在一个月内会上来 1367 01:32:22,082 --> 01:32:23,082 因为我们打磨了四年 1368 01:32:24,082 --> 01:32:25,082 我们没有怎么发生过 1369 01:32:25,082 --> 01:32:26,082 这个是很公开的第一次讲 1370 01:32:27,082 --> 01:32:30,082 然后大家支持一个华人干协议层的这么一个项目 1371 01:32:31,082 --> 01:32:33,082 去年聊了近100家VC 1372 01:32:34,082 --> 01:32:36,082 号称投他妈的infra 1373 01:32:37,082 --> 01:32:39,082 但他妈的这个华人干不了infra 1374 01:32:40,082 --> 01:32:41,082 14年他妈的干不了infra 1375 01:32:42,082 --> 01:32:43,082 抱歉啊有点失态不好意思 1376 01:32:44,082 --> 01:32:47,082 好的好的谢谢各位嘉宾的精彩分享 1377 01:32:48,082 --> 01:32:49,082 那我们今天圆桌时间也到此结束 1378 01:32:50,082 --> 01:32:51,082 谢谢各位观众的聆听 1379 01:32:52,082 --> 01:32:57,082 谢谢谢谢谢谢台上嘉宾的精彩分享 1380 01:32:58,082 --> 01:32:59,082 谢谢 1381 01:33:07,082 --> 01:33:09,082 那提提大家活动呢 1382 01:33:10,082 --> 01:33:12,082 会提供同胜传译的服务 1383 01:33:13,082 --> 01:33:16,082 你只要扫描会看手册的二维码 1384 01:33:17,082 --> 01:33:20,082 就可以通过手机就收听那个同传的 1385 01:33:43,082 --> 01:33:47,082 Leo CEO of Antpoo to deliver a keynote on bitcoin mining 1386 01:33:48,082 --> 01:33:51,082 Ladies and gentlemen let's give a warm welcome to Leon 1387 01:33:51,082 --> 01:34:15,082 好大家下午好我是Antpoo的CEO李磊 1388 01:34:16,082 --> 01:34:18,082 今天很高兴能有这个机会 1389 01:34:18,082 --> 01:34:22,082 给大家一起交流一下比特币挖矿方面的一些想法 1390 01:34:23,082 --> 01:34:30,082 那我是2013年这个创办了行业第一个数字货币挖矿线上社区 1391 01:34:31,082 --> 01:34:33,082 那到今年10年了 1392 01:34:34,082 --> 01:34:36,082 在这个比特币算力一直屡创新高 1393 01:34:37,082 --> 01:34:40,082 那在这样的环境下比特币挖矿现在是怎么样的形式呢 1394 01:34:41,082 --> 01:34:42,082 这是我今天演讲的主题 1395 01:34:43,082 --> 01:34:47,082 那首先呢我想和大家用一个短暂的时间 1396 01:34:48,082 --> 01:34:50,082 回顾一下比特币挖矿的一个基本原理 1397 01:34:53,082 --> 01:34:56,082 那讲到比特币挖矿我觉得有三个时间非常重要 1398 01:34:57,082 --> 01:35:00,082 大家记住这三个时间对比特币挖矿也就也就明白了 1399 01:35:01,082 --> 01:35:05,082 挖矿是通过计算将内存池中未确认的交易 1400 01:35:06,082 --> 01:35:09,082 确认为区块链上的区块的过程 1401 01:35:10,082 --> 01:35:11,082 简单一点说就是做数学题 1402 01:35:12,082 --> 01:35:15,082 挖矿设备在做数学题猜中了就获得区块奖励 1403 01:35:15,082 --> 01:35:17,082 那这里面有三个时间很关键 1404 01:35:18,082 --> 01:35:21,082 第一个是十分钟就目前来说 1405 01:35:22,082 --> 01:35:25,082 这个他的这个协议设定比特币的协议设定 1406 01:35:26,082 --> 01:35:29,082 每十分钟大约十分钟啊全球产生一个区块 1407 01:35:30,082 --> 01:35:33,082 那就整个比特币网络呃全世界的比特币网络 1408 01:35:34,082 --> 01:35:35,082 这一张网络每十分钟产生一个区块 1409 01:35:36,082 --> 01:35:39,082 这也就是矿工获得挖矿收入的主要来源 1410 01:35:40,082 --> 01:35:42,082 这个区块产生的时候就会有区块奖励 1411 01:35:42,082 --> 01:35:43,082 给到比特币矿工 1412 01:35:44,082 --> 01:35:46,082 第二个时间是14天 1413 01:35:47,082 --> 01:35:49,082 那比特币网络为了保持他这个大爷 1414 01:35:50,082 --> 01:35:53,082 每个区块都保持大约十分钟这样均衡的产出呢 1415 01:35:54,082 --> 01:35:55,082 他会自动调整挖矿难度 1416 01:35:56,082 --> 01:36:00,082 他会在每两千零一十六个区块的以后调整难度 1417 01:36:01,082 --> 01:36:04,082 那这个区块的间隔时间大约就是14天 1418 01:36:05,082 --> 01:36:06,082 那第三个时间就是四年 1419 01:36:07,082 --> 01:36:09,082 比特币的区块产出每四年减半一次 1420 01:36:09,082 --> 01:36:14,082 那实际上对于这个比特币区块产出减半这个性质来说 1421 01:36:15,082 --> 01:36:17,082 对比特币的整个经济模型是影响非常重要的 1422 01:36:18,082 --> 01:36:22,082 那下面我们就回顾一下比特币减半的一个过程 1423 01:36:23,082 --> 01:36:26,082 大家都知道比特币在2009年的时候 1424 01:36:27,082 --> 01:36:29,082 其实大家很少人接受很少人接受他 1425 01:36:30,082 --> 01:36:31,082 那他价值多少钱呢 1426 01:36:32,082 --> 01:36:33,082 有个披萨饼的故事 1427 01:36:34,082 --> 01:36:36,082 大家都知道用一万个比特币换了一个披萨饼 1428 01:36:36,082 --> 01:36:39,082 那到2012年比特币发生了第一次减半 1429 01:36:40,082 --> 01:36:44,082 区块产出有50个比特币减少为85枚比特币每个区块 1430 01:36:45,082 --> 01:36:49,082 那那次产那次减半的时候比特币价格大概是10美元每枚 1431 01:36:50,082 --> 01:36:54,082 那第二次减半发生在20发生在2016年 1432 01:36:55,082 --> 01:36:57,082 第三次减半发生在2020年 1433 01:36:58,082 --> 01:36:59,082 那到2020年的时候呢 1434 01:37:00,082 --> 01:37:04,082 比特币每枚的价格呃但是已经到9000美元每枚左右 1435 01:37:04,082 --> 01:37:07,082 那实际上对于比特币挖矿的矿工来说 1436 01:37:08,082 --> 01:37:13,082 你每次区块减半的时候就意味着比特币的币本位的收入是减半的 1437 01:37:14,082 --> 01:37:17,082 但实际上为什么算力还屡串新高一直往上涨呢 1438 01:37:18,082 --> 01:37:25,082 大家可以看到实际上法币本位的挖矿的收入的增长远远超过了比特币减半的这个减少 1439 01:37:26,082 --> 01:37:31,082 那按目前这个速度大概这个区块第四次减半 1440 01:37:31,082 --> 01:37:35,082 第四次减半大概会发生在明年的四月份 1441 01:37:36,082 --> 01:37:38,082 那到那个时候比特币价格会是多少呢 1442 01:37:39,082 --> 01:37:43,082 我这里写了五个这个符号那就是五位数的比特币 1443 01:37:44,082 --> 01:37:50,082 当然我们也希望到时候能够看到六位数的六位数美元每枚的比特币啊 1444 01:37:51,082 --> 01:37:54,082 好这是我们简单回顾了一下比特币挖矿的一个原理 1445 01:37:55,082 --> 01:37:59,082 那随着这个这个这个比特币挖矿这个算力上涨呢 1446 01:37:59,082 --> 01:38:03,082 我们再来回顾一下整个比特币网络这个算力上涨的一个过程 1447 01:38:04,082 --> 01:38:09,082 同时我们再回顾一下比特币挖矿设备是怎么发展演进的 1448 01:38:10,082 --> 01:38:12,082 那在2019年刚刚比特币诞生的时候 1449 01:38:13,082 --> 01:38:16,082 大家都知道那就是家里面的电脑挖矿CPU挖矿 1450 01:38:17,082 --> 01:38:19,082 那时候知道比特币的人还非常少 1451 01:38:20,082 --> 01:38:22,082 那时候如果你在家里面用一个电脑挖矿 1452 01:38:23,082 --> 01:38:25,082 一天是可以挖上百枚比特币的啊 1453 01:38:26,082 --> 01:38:28,082 大家可以想象一下那样的日子应该是很美好的 1454 01:38:29,082 --> 01:38:31,082 那后来大家就用GPU挖矿 1455 01:38:32,082 --> 01:38:35,082 因为GPU它的计算性能更多的是计算重复计算 1456 01:38:36,082 --> 01:38:38,082 所以大家可能都看到过网上的图片 1457 01:38:39,082 --> 01:38:42,082 四张显卡插在一个插在一个架子上 1458 01:38:43,082 --> 01:38:46,082 然后来挖矿那个性能又比CPU高很多 1459 01:38:47,082 --> 01:38:53,082 实际上现在曾经的很多币圈的大佬都做过显卡挖矿 1460 01:38:54,082 --> 01:38:56,082 比如说用一个集装箱里面布满了显卡 1461 01:38:56,082 --> 01:38:58,082 大家可以想象一下在11年的时候 1462 01:38:59,082 --> 01:39:01,082 一个集装箱的显卡每天可以挖多少比特币 1463 01:39:02,082 --> 01:39:05,082 换算成现在的法币单位那是非常惊人的 1464 01:39:06,082 --> 01:39:10,082 那挖矿设备经过GPU又到了FPGA可编程逻辑阵列 1465 01:39:11,082 --> 01:39:14,082 它是什么东西呢就是一种半可编程的芯片 1466 01:39:15,082 --> 01:39:17,082 它的性能又比GPU高 1467 01:39:18,082 --> 01:39:20,082 但FPGA的存在的时间很短 1468 01:39:21,082 --> 01:39:24,082 很快就过渡到了ASIC就是定制芯片 1469 01:39:24,082 --> 01:39:28,082 但这里我想说一个还是中国人自得自豪的地方 1470 01:39:29,082 --> 01:39:32,082 全球第一台ASIC的定制芯片的矿机是中国人做 1471 01:39:34,082 --> 01:39:36,082 他是阿瓦隆的创始人张南根 1472 01:39:37,082 --> 01:39:40,082 那个时候他做这个全球第一台矿机的时候 1473 01:39:41,082 --> 01:39:45,082 在bitcointalk.com上面卖75个比特币一台 1474 01:39:46,082 --> 01:39:49,082 大家可以换算一下75个比特币一台的矿机多少钱 1475 01:39:50,082 --> 01:39:53,082 不可想象但实际上那个时候是大家也是蜂拥而至 1476 01:39:54,082 --> 01:39:56,082 彻夜排队的来购买这个矿机 1477 01:39:57,082 --> 01:39:59,082 那时候的矿机到手的时候大概是 1478 01:40:00,082 --> 01:40:02,082 我印象里面大概是在13年的时候 1479 01:40:03,082 --> 01:40:06,082 七天回本吧七天回本以后每天都在印都在印钞 1480 01:40:07,082 --> 01:40:10,082 那是就是在13年左右130纳米阶段 1481 01:40:11,082 --> 01:40:13,082 那当时还有一个天才少年叫烤猫 1482 01:40:14,082 --> 01:40:15,082 可能在座的很多人已经不记得了 1483 01:40:16,082 --> 01:40:19,082 那时候13年左右挖矿是中国的中国时代 1484 01:40:20,082 --> 01:40:23,082 有两个非常突出的典型玩家 1485 01:40:24,082 --> 01:40:29,082 烤猫烤猫当时在一个矿池上的页面 1486 01:40:30,082 --> 01:40:31,082 有一个算力的展示 1487 01:40:32,082 --> 01:40:33,082 他的那个实时算力展示 1488 01:40:34,082 --> 01:40:36,082 他一个人的算力占了全网百分之三十几 1489 01:40:37,082 --> 01:40:40,082 大家可以计算一下一个人的个人算力占全网百分之三十几 1490 01:40:41,082 --> 01:40:42,082 每天可以获得多少比特币 1491 01:40:43,082 --> 01:40:46,082 那那个真是谈赢啊那真是税后税后财产啊 1492 01:40:47,082 --> 01:40:51,082 但是阿瓦罗和烤猫的这个时代很快也没有持续很长时间 1493 01:40:51,082 --> 01:40:55,082 就到了第二个时代是一个以色列公司叫比特富 1494 01:40:56,082 --> 01:40:57,082 他们做了一个矿矿技以后 1495 01:40:58,082 --> 01:41:01,082 性能也是很快比阿瓦罗和烤猫提升很多 1496 01:41:02,082 --> 01:41:07,082 他们的那个平台很快算力一度超过了比特币全网百分之五十 1497 01:41:08,082 --> 01:41:10,082 大概在14年15年左右 1498 01:41:11,082 --> 01:41:13,082 呃不在哦在14年哦错了错了 1499 01:41:14,082 --> 01:41:16,082 在13年左右13年下半年年底的时候 1500 01:41:17,082 --> 01:41:18,082 他们的网页非常简单 1501 01:41:18,082 --> 01:41:21,082 我特别记得他们占了全网这么大的算力 1502 01:41:22,082 --> 01:41:23,082 他们简单的网页上还写这句话 1503 01:41:24,082 --> 01:41:28,082 我们只是随便玩玩啊非常的反而赛啊 1504 01:41:29,082 --> 01:41:30,082 那就是第二个初始的阶段 1505 01:41:31,082 --> 01:41:32,082 那到第三个阶段我们就知道 1506 01:41:33,082 --> 01:41:36,082 我特别记得在2013年11月11号 1507 01:41:37,082 --> 01:41:41,082 啊但是我办的一个网站发表了一篇文章叫中国的比特富也来了 1508 01:41:42,082 --> 01:41:43,082 他是谁呢就是比特大陆 1509 01:41:43,082 --> 01:41:44,082 就是比特大陆 1510 01:41:45,082 --> 01:41:47,082 大家知道到后面到目前为止 1511 01:41:48,082 --> 01:41:50,082 比特大陆的矿机已经是市场的份额的绝对领先 1512 01:41:51,082 --> 01:41:55,082 那这可以看成asic矿机时代的比特大陆时代开始了啊 1513 01:41:56,082 --> 01:41:58,082 一直持续到现在到现在2022年 1514 01:41:59,082 --> 01:42:01,082 asic芯片已经到五纳米级别啊 1515 01:42:02,082 --> 01:42:05,082 刚刚我们回顾了这个整个矿机芯片纳米制成的一个过程 1516 01:42:06,082 --> 01:42:08,082 然后我们再来看这个算力曲线 1517 01:42:09,082 --> 01:42:12,082 可以看到在asic初期算力增长没有那么快 1518 01:42:13,082 --> 01:42:16,082 但是纳米数的制成的提升速度很快 1519 01:42:17,082 --> 01:42:22,082 因为130纳米到20纳米以下的提升提升是比较方便的 1520 01:42:23,082 --> 01:42:24,082 但到20纳米以下 1521 01:42:25,082 --> 01:42:27,082 他的迭代速度会会比较减缓 1522 01:42:28,082 --> 01:42:31,082 但是单台算力矿机的算力增会增大 1523 01:42:32,082 --> 01:42:34,082 所以算力增长就会更陡峭 1524 01:42:35,082 --> 01:42:38,082 那讲到这个asic矿机 1525 01:42:39,082 --> 01:42:41,082 我们再看一下asic矿机的这个发展历程 1526 01:42:41,082 --> 01:42:45,082 我们以bitman的antminer就蚂蚁矿机为例 1527 01:42:46,082 --> 01:42:52,082 从2013年的第一代se到现在最新的s19xphydro 1528 01:42:53,082 --> 01:42:54,082 已经19代的发展 1529 01:42:55,082 --> 01:42:57,082 那他从功耗来说 1530 01:42:58,082 --> 01:43:02,082 我们可以看到这个se的180G每台的算力 1531 01:43:03,082 --> 01:43:07,082 发展到现在s19xp255T每台的算力 1532 01:43:07,082 --> 01:43:11,082 这个单机算力差不多增长了1400倍 1533 01:43:12,082 --> 01:43:15,082 也就是约三个数量值 1534 01:43:16,082 --> 01:43:19,082 然后单位能效比大概下降了90倍 1535 01:43:20,082 --> 01:43:24,082 那在这个过程当中大家可以看到这个矿机的演进 1536 01:43:25,082 --> 01:43:26,082 就是单台矿机算力越来越高 1537 01:43:27,082 --> 01:43:28,082 单位功耗越来越低 1538 01:43:29,082 --> 01:43:30,082 但在这个曲线图里面 1539 01:43:31,082 --> 01:43:34,082 我特别想强调一个大家可以看到这张图的右下部分 1540 01:43:34,082 --> 01:43:40,082 就是单位功耗的下降幅度在s9那个交叉点以后 1541 01:43:41,082 --> 01:43:44,082 大家可以看到功耗比的下降幅度明显减缓 1542 01:43:45,082 --> 01:43:48,082 这就是为纳米制程进入了更低的纳米制程以后 1543 01:43:49,082 --> 01:43:51,082 矿机的这个技术迭代会相对减缓 1544 01:43:52,082 --> 01:43:54,082 那这个图线还会得出一个什么结论 1545 01:43:55,082 --> 01:43:56,082 就在这样的情况下 1546 01:43:57,082 --> 01:44:00,082 低纳米制程的矿机的寿命会比以往任何时候都长 1547 01:44:01,082 --> 01:44:05,082 那就是我们看到矿机的一个迭代发展的一个过程 1548 01:44:06,082 --> 01:44:08,082 那讲完矿机我们再看看算力 1549 01:44:09,082 --> 01:44:10,082 现在全球算力是怎么分布的呢 1550 01:44:11,082 --> 01:44:13,082 因为我13年就参与这个行业 1551 01:44:14,082 --> 01:44:15,082 那时候还是在国内 1552 01:44:16,082 --> 01:44:18,082 大家知道因为政策的关系算力发生了大转移 1553 01:44:19,082 --> 01:44:24,082 那据统计现在应该是美国的算力应该超过了50% 1554 01:44:25,082 --> 01:44:28,082 我指的美国算力不是指美国人拥有的算力 1555 01:44:28,082 --> 01:44:32,082 而是这些矿机部署在美国国土以内 1556 01:44:33,082 --> 01:44:35,082 他这样的算力应该是超过了50% 1557 01:44:36,082 --> 01:44:38,082 那美国的算力是怎么构成的呢 1558 01:44:39,082 --> 01:44:42,082 美国的挖矿和其他地区的挖矿有最大的不同 1559 01:44:43,082 --> 01:44:46,082 他都是由这个挖矿上市公司来主导的 1560 01:44:47,082 --> 01:44:48,082 他们已经非常的成熟 1561 01:44:49,082 --> 01:44:52,082 就传统的商业这种金融玩法结合的非常深 1562 01:44:53,082 --> 01:44:56,082 他们有据这个他们公开资料统计的话 1563 01:44:56,082 --> 01:45:01,082 他们现在北美上市公司矿企合计市值约50亿美元 1564 01:45:02,082 --> 01:45:04,082 他们公开的算力合计算力大概71亿 1565 01:45:05,082 --> 01:45:06,082 这是公开的数据 1566 01:45:07,082 --> 01:45:09,082 实际上北美算力我们认为应该超过130亿 1567 01:45:10,082 --> 01:45:11,082 还有一部分是没有公开的 1568 01:45:12,082 --> 01:45:13,082 那在这些是 1569 01:45:14,082 --> 01:45:17,082 右下的我的著算图就是列了北美的约10家 1570 01:45:18,082 --> 01:45:19,082 北美的主要的上市公司 1571 01:45:20,082 --> 01:45:23,082 这里面有算力最多的应该是Core Scientific 1572 01:45:24,082 --> 01:45:25,082 我去过他的矿产 1573 01:45:26,082 --> 01:45:29,082 大家可能觉得以前建矿产挖矿是中国人比较专业 1574 01:45:30,082 --> 01:45:31,082 但我去了美国的矿产 1575 01:45:32,082 --> 01:45:33,082 有一个现象我真的被我震惊到了 1576 01:45:34,082 --> 01:45:35,082 真的给我的一个很大的震惊 1577 01:45:36,082 --> 01:45:37,082 他们的矿产非常干净 1578 01:45:38,082 --> 01:45:39,082 你知道只有一个 1579 01:45:40,082 --> 01:45:41,082 而且货架上都几乎没有尘土 1580 01:45:42,082 --> 01:45:43,082 没有灰尘 1581 01:45:44,082 --> 01:45:47,082 你知道要把一个矿产数万台的矿机的矿产管理的这么精细 1582 01:45:48,082 --> 01:45:49,082 那一定是要投入很大的精力的 1583 01:45:51,082 --> 01:45:52,082 然后算力最高的是Realtor 1584 01:45:53,082 --> 01:45:55,082 Realtor这家上市公司的矿产我也去过 1585 01:45:56,082 --> 01:45:59,082 他拥有目前全球单体矿产负荷最大的产地 1586 01:46:00,082 --> 01:46:04,082 但是我去的时候应该他这个矿产的负荷在70万千瓦 1587 01:46:05,082 --> 01:46:08,082 7栋厂房每栋厂房10万千瓦 1588 01:46:09,082 --> 01:46:10,082 就在一个地方 1589 01:46:11,082 --> 01:46:12,082 那旁边紧接着就是变电站 1590 01:46:14,082 --> 01:46:18,082 那这样的类型的美北美挖矿上市公司 1591 01:46:19,082 --> 01:46:20,082 构成了北美算力的主体 1592 01:46:22,082 --> 01:46:24,082 在跟他们的CEO或者他们的这些高管沟通当中 1593 01:46:24,082 --> 01:46:27,082 我发现北美挖矿企业他有个很大的特点 1594 01:46:28,082 --> 01:46:31,082 和以往的这个行业里面的玩家不太一样 1595 01:46:32,082 --> 01:46:34,082 他们对矿产的建设质量比较高 1596 01:46:35,082 --> 01:46:36,082 包括打地基啊 1597 01:46:37,082 --> 01:46:39,082 包括钢材的选购啊质量都比较高 1598 01:46:40,082 --> 01:46:42,082 另外一个他们矿产的建设周期很长 1599 01:46:43,082 --> 01:46:44,082 这个我想说一下 1600 01:46:45,082 --> 01:46:46,082 你去如果去到北美 1601 01:46:47,082 --> 01:46:49,082 和他们负责矿产的建设的同事聊天就知道了 1602 01:46:50,082 --> 01:46:52,082 美国人在工作的时候真的需要休假 1603 01:46:52,082 --> 01:46:56,082 而且他们在休假的时候你是真的联系不到他们 1604 01:46:57,082 --> 01:46:58,082 所以他们这个过程是 1605 01:46:59,082 --> 01:47:00,082 他们矿产的建设周期确实是很长 1606 01:47:01,082 --> 01:47:04,082 大概都要按年为单位来这个计算 1607 01:47:05,082 --> 01:47:09,082 另外一个他们这个非常勇于探索液冷技术 1608 01:47:10,082 --> 01:47:13,082 就是我们目前看到的挖矿的液冷都是 1609 01:47:14,082 --> 01:47:15,082 比特大陆的矿机它是水冷 1610 01:47:16,082 --> 01:47:17,082 本身具备这个液冷的能力 1611 01:47:18,082 --> 01:47:20,082 但是北美上市公司他们研究的液冷矿产 1612 01:47:20,082 --> 01:47:25,082 是用不导电的液体放到一个液体槽里面 1613 01:47:26,082 --> 01:47:30,082 把整个矿机全部浸没在这个不导电的液体槽里面 1614 01:47:31,082 --> 01:47:33,082 然后这个液体把热量带走以后循环出去 1615 01:47:34,082 --> 01:47:35,082 冷却后再循环回来 1616 01:47:36,082 --> 01:47:38,082 他们非常对这个技术非常这个热衷 1617 01:47:39,082 --> 01:47:40,082 这是北美矿企的一些情况 1618 01:47:43,082 --> 01:47:46,082 那第二个部分我们再回到这个比特网络 1619 01:47:47,082 --> 01:47:48,082 此时此刻此时此刻这个信息 1620 01:47:48,082 --> 01:47:51,082 可以在我们Npool的这个币种信息页面可以查看到 1621 01:47:52,082 --> 01:47:54,082 24小时可以查看我们比特币全网的数据 1622 01:47:55,082 --> 01:47:57,082 那可以看到在大概在一年以后 1623 01:47:58,082 --> 01:47:59,082 就会发生第四次减半 1624 01:48:00,082 --> 01:48:02,082 然后近期来看比特币全网难度 1625 01:48:03,082 --> 01:48:04,082 已经连续五个周期 1626 01:48:05,082 --> 01:48:06,082 四个周期四个周期 1627 01:48:07,082 --> 01:48:11,082 就是四个14天都发生了这个难度向上的增长 1628 01:48:12,082 --> 01:48:15,082 那在这样的这个减半的预期下 1629 01:48:15,082 --> 01:48:17,082 这样的全网难度的增长下 1630 01:48:18,082 --> 01:48:22,082 为什么还有这么多人希望参与到挖矿当中 1631 01:48:23,082 --> 01:48:24,082 来获取它的利润呢 1632 01:48:25,082 --> 01:48:27,082 我觉得这可能是大家目前最关心的一个话题 1633 01:48:29,082 --> 01:48:31,082 因为Npool我们是全球领先的矿区 1634 01:48:32,082 --> 01:48:33,082 我们和这些挖矿的参与者都有沟通 1635 01:48:34,082 --> 01:48:39,082 我们总结出来目前还在参与挖矿这个投资产业的投资者 1636 01:48:40,082 --> 01:48:41,082 他们有这么几个明显的特点 1637 01:48:42,082 --> 01:48:44,082 第一个就是单体规模大 1638 01:48:45,082 --> 01:48:46,082 合规倾向很高 1639 01:48:47,082 --> 01:48:51,082 就是可能和今天我们web3的这个大会的各个企业不太一样 1640 01:48:52,082 --> 01:48:55,082 就现在的矿企越来越像传统行业里面的企业 1641 01:48:56,082 --> 01:48:58,082 公司化管理上市规范的财富报表 1642 01:48:59,082 --> 01:49:00,082 他们是这样的这样的管理模式 1643 01:49:01,082 --> 01:49:03,082 第二个是明显的资本密集性 1644 01:49:04,082 --> 01:49:08,082 就大家对挖矿的赚钱的方式方法可能和以前不太一样 1645 01:49:09,082 --> 01:49:12,082 不像以前单纯的就是我买矿机回本赚钱 1646 01:49:13,082 --> 01:49:14,082 这个逻辑可能已经不太这样子了 1647 01:49:15,082 --> 01:49:18,082 有一些一些大的资本包括这个东南亚的资本 1648 01:49:18,082 --> 01:49:19,082 中东的资本 1649 01:49:20,082 --> 01:49:21,082 他们在参与挖矿的时候 1650 01:49:21,082 --> 01:49:22,082 他们逻辑可能是另外一种方式 1651 01:49:24,082 --> 01:49:25,082 第三个就是能源密集性 1652 01:49:27,082 --> 01:49:29,082 这样多的长期主义者 1653 01:49:29,082 --> 01:49:32,082 这样多的长期规划的人参与到比特币挖矿里这么来 1654 01:49:33,082 --> 01:49:35,082 就会贪保比特币挖矿的利润 1655 01:49:36,082 --> 01:49:39,082 实际上我想说比特币已经挖矿已经不再像 1656 01:49:39,082 --> 01:49:42,082 曾经那么暴力的时候的那么暴力了 1657 01:49:42,082 --> 01:49:48,082 那这个时候大家会很关注他的这个成本收益的计算 1658 01:49:48,082 --> 01:49:49,082 那在成本计算方面 1659 01:49:49,082 --> 01:49:51,082 他主要的成本就是电费 1660 01:49:51,082 --> 01:49:56,082 那这个时候原来就在能源行业上下游 1661 01:49:56,682 --> 01:50:00,682 能源行业上下游有经验的这些企业 他们就会利用他们的经验来参与这个挖矿 1662 01:50:00,682 --> 01:50:12,682 另外一个就是我们个人投资者 可能现在很多在座的大家已经不怎么接触挖矿了 因为实际上挖矿可能离普通玩家会越来越远 1663 01:50:12,682 --> 01:50:17,682 我们认为个人投资者更多的未来会通过云算力的形式参与到挖矿当中来 1664 01:50:18,682 --> 01:50:29,682 那这里我想再强调一个就是这个随着算力的增长 矿机能耗迭代的减缓 长期主义者的加入 1665 01:50:29,682 --> 01:50:36,682 成本的计算 能源的优势在挖矿投资当中的因素影响会越来越重要 1666 01:50:36,682 --> 01:50:41,682 那能源现在在整个挖矿行业里面是怎么一个占比呢 1667 01:50:41,682 --> 01:50:52,682 那据这个剑桥比特币电力消耗指数统计 全球每一年消耗的在比特币挖矿上的电量大概是140太瓦时 1668 01:50:52,682 --> 01:50:58,682 就是140太瓦的太瓦时的电量 1669 01:50:58,682 --> 01:51:08,682 那这个折算成这个单位大家可能比较陌生 那折算成功耗的话应该是大约1500万千瓦 是这么样规模体量 1670 01:51:08,682 --> 01:51:16,682 大家听上去可能觉得这个公布体量还是挺吓人的 但实际上整个能耗占全网电量供应量的不到0.62% 1671 01:51:16,682 --> 01:51:23,682 实际上我们一说比特币挖矿在这个整个人类的这个社会的能源供给里面占比还是比较小的 1672 01:51:23,682 --> 01:51:29,682 第二个就是绿色能源挖矿占比越来越多 利用废弃能源的挖矿的这个投资者越来越多 1673 01:51:29,682 --> 01:51:34,682 因为绿色能源和废弃能源它天然有可能价格会比较便宜 1674 01:51:34,682 --> 01:51:40,682 这是一种大家这个矿工追逐地能源这个路径的必然 1675 01:51:40,682 --> 01:51:49,682 所以我们想说的就是挖矿其实远比大家想象的能耗要小 而且更绿色 1676 01:51:49,682 --> 01:51:58,682 最后一个就是特别是以北美地区现在挖矿产生的一个最大的特点就是平衡电网供给 1677 01:51:59,682 --> 01:52:03,682 就北美的矿工他们会做一个事情 1678 01:52:03,682 --> 01:52:08,682 在用电低谷期的时候 电价便宜的时候 电用来挖矿 1679 01:52:08,682 --> 01:52:14,682 但他们买电的时候是买了一个整包 在电价高峰期就是用电高峰期 1680 01:52:14,682 --> 01:52:17,682 大家开空调比较多的时候 用电高峰期的时候 1681 01:52:17,682 --> 01:52:22,682 把这个电返卖回给电网赚取电费差价 1682 01:52:22,682 --> 01:52:28,682 这是以前没有的模式 但参与这个模式这只是电网平衡供给的一个开始 1683 01:52:28,682 --> 01:52:37,682 我觉得这个趋势可能会演变成以后比特币挖矿和能源网平衡的这么一个新模式 1684 01:52:37,682 --> 01:52:43,682 因为我们知道能源特别是发电 能源是电能是非常难储存的 1685 01:52:43,682 --> 01:52:45,682 储存的时候耗费大量的成本 1686 01:52:45,682 --> 01:52:48,682 那怎么能在高峰期调节这个平衡 1687 01:52:48,682 --> 01:52:52,682 比特币挖矿的这个参与者可能能参与到这个事情里面来 1688 01:52:52,682 --> 01:52:57,682 可能会发生 我觉得可能会延展出很多多种多样的方式 1689 01:52:59,682 --> 01:53:03,682 那就随着这个POW这个发展 1690 01:53:03,682 --> 01:53:07,682 我们觉得POW是连接物理世界和虚拟世界的桥梁 1691 01:53:07,682 --> 01:53:13,682 就通过SSR56的算法通过矿机把能源和区块链结合起来了 1692 01:53:13,682 --> 01:53:17,682 我们觉得现在虽然随着以太坊POS的切换 1693 01:53:17,682 --> 01:53:19,682 POS生态展现出强大的潜力 1694 01:53:19,682 --> 01:53:22,682 但我们觉得POW区块链也不容忽视 1695 01:53:22,682 --> 01:53:25,682 它作为价值锚定和稳定共识的中间力量 1696 01:53:25,682 --> 01:53:29,682 POW我们觉得和POS应该会长期共存 1697 01:53:29,682 --> 01:53:32,682 还有像刚刚前面那个原著嘉宾提到的 1698 01:53:32,682 --> 01:53:36,682 在这上面的NFT也好 闪电网络也好 也逐渐开始 1699 01:53:36,682 --> 01:53:38,682 它既然有这么庞大的共识技术 1700 01:53:38,682 --> 01:53:43,682 它上面生长出来的生态我们觉得有可能是最繁荣的 1701 01:53:43,682 --> 01:53:47,682 那我们希望POW在不断自我进化的路上能够更绿色 1702 01:53:47,682 --> 01:53:49,682 能够提高人类利用能源的技术与水平 1703 01:53:49,682 --> 01:53:54,682 实现最纯正规模最大的区块链共识 1704 01:53:54,682 --> 01:53:56,682 实现人类科技历史的跨越 1705 01:53:57,682 --> 01:54:00,682 那最后我插播一段简单的插播一段广告 1706 01:54:00,682 --> 01:54:03,682 就是我们Mpool的这个业务内容 1707 01:54:03,682 --> 01:54:07,682 那Mpool是成立于2004年是全球领先的矿池之一 1708 01:54:07,682 --> 01:54:09,682 我们节点遍布全球 1709 01:54:09,682 --> 01:54:13,682 为世界各地用户提供稳定便捷高效的挖矿服务 1710 01:54:13,682 --> 01:54:15,682 同时我们作为一家区块链基础设施公司 1711 01:54:15,682 --> 01:54:19,682 Mpool相信科技为区块链世界带来的无限可能 1712 01:54:19,682 --> 01:54:22,682 我们致力于支持和发展POW社区 1713 01:54:22,682 --> 01:54:25,682 比如我们LTC基金会就成立了LTC Labs 1714 01:54:25,682 --> 01:54:28,682 为繁荣POW生态做出贡献 1715 01:54:28,682 --> 01:54:30,682 下面是我们矿池的一些APP的截图 1716 01:54:30,682 --> 01:54:33,682 其实经过了很多年的迭代开发 1717 01:54:33,682 --> 01:54:36,682 如果矿工用我们的矿池一定会用起来非常舒服 1718 01:54:36,682 --> 01:54:38,682 管理你的矿基金会一定会觉得 1719 01:54:38,682 --> 01:54:40,682 这是很好用的产品 1720 01:54:40,682 --> 01:54:42,682 那我们主要业务就是两个方向 1721 01:54:42,682 --> 01:54:43,682 一个是挖矿服务 1722 01:54:43,682 --> 01:54:45,682 就是大家挖矿必须要接入矿池 1723 01:54:45,682 --> 01:54:47,682 希望大家能选择我们 1724 01:54:47,682 --> 01:54:50,682 第二个就是我们提供云矿池的服务 1725 01:54:50,682 --> 01:54:54,682 就是说大家在如果想建立一个自己品牌的云矿池 1726 01:54:54,682 --> 01:54:56,682 可以选择我们的云矿池服务 1727 01:54:56,682 --> 01:55:00,682 我们可以让大家轻松的构建自己品牌的 1728 01:55:00,682 --> 01:55:01,682 继承挖矿业务模块 1729 01:55:01,682 --> 01:55:04,682 同时享受强大的网络存在能力 1730 01:55:04,682 --> 01:55:06,682 还有避免垃圾波动的风险 1731 01:55:06,682 --> 01:55:08,682 避免垃圾波动的风险 1732 01:55:08,682 --> 01:55:12,682 你的自己品牌的矿池可以直接享受收益 1733 01:55:12,682 --> 01:55:15,682 那右边是我们的联系方式 1734 01:55:15,682 --> 01:55:19,682 最下角是我们LinkedIn和Twitter 1735 01:55:19,682 --> 01:55:20,682 欢迎大家关注我们 1736 01:55:20,682 --> 01:55:21,682 好 谢谢大家 1737 01:55:21,682 --> 01:55:23,682 我今天演讲到这里 谢谢 1738 01:55:23,682 --> 01:55:26,682 谢谢 谢谢Leon的精彩演讲 1739 01:55:26,682 --> 01:55:29,682 Thank you Leon for the inspirational speech 1740 01:55:30,682 --> 01:55:35,682 So coming up next, may I invite Yan 1741 01:55:35,682 --> 01:55:39,682 Member of Omni Foundation and Foundation of Omni Vote 1742 01:55:39,682 --> 01:55:41,682 for a keynote speech please 1743 01:55:41,682 --> 01:55:43,682 Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome Yan 1744 01:55:43,682 --> 01:55:45,682 我们用掌声欢迎Yan 1745 01:55:45,682 --> 01:55:46,682 欢迎Yan 1746 01:56:02,682 --> 01:56:06,682 刚才挖矿那个话题我听了有点入迷了 1747 01:56:06,682 --> 01:56:10,682 因为我在十几年前也在自己家里挖过 1748 01:56:10,682 --> 01:56:13,682 然后那个时候挖了几天 1749 01:56:13,682 --> 01:56:15,682 然后很快就被我妈妈制止了 1750 01:56:15,682 --> 01:56:18,682 所以是一个很美好的回忆 1751 01:56:18,682 --> 01:56:21,682 然后我今天就是 1752 01:56:25,682 --> 01:56:29,682 首先还是感谢肖峰总和各界领导 1753 01:56:29,682 --> 01:56:33,682 感谢万象区块链实验室和Hashkey集团 1754 01:56:33,682 --> 01:56:35,682 在香港这么一个美妙的城市 1755 01:56:35,682 --> 01:56:38,682 主办了如此盛大的活动 1756 01:56:38,682 --> 01:56:40,682 并给我一个宝贵机会 1757 01:56:40,682 --> 01:56:43,682 有幸代表Omni基金会 1758 01:56:43,682 --> 01:56:47,682 这样一家在业内耕耘了多年的 1759 01:56:49,682 --> 01:56:53,682 它应该是一个最早的比特币二层协议 1760 01:56:53,682 --> 01:56:59,682 那么是一个耕耘很久的一个组织 1761 01:56:59,682 --> 01:57:04,682 那么我首次在香港使用中文面向全球 1762 01:57:04,682 --> 01:57:08,682 讲述一下有关比特币生态过去和未来的话题 1763 01:57:09,682 --> 01:57:10,682 从技术上讲 1764 01:57:10,682 --> 01:57:14,682 在比特币上开发Dapp发行各种token 1765 01:57:14,682 --> 01:57:16,682 是完全可以做到的 1766 01:57:16,682 --> 01:57:20,682 那么不知道在座的各位有没有过这样的疑问 1767 01:57:20,682 --> 01:57:24,682 为什么那些Dapp比如Dex, DeFi等 1768 01:57:24,682 --> 01:57:26,682 一般都建立在以太坊上 1769 01:57:26,682 --> 01:57:29,682 而不是在比特币上 1770 01:57:29,682 --> 01:57:31,682 这当然有多方面的原因 1771 01:57:31,682 --> 01:57:35,682 比如以太坊的原生编程语言更灵活 1772 01:57:35,682 --> 01:57:38,682 或者是以太坊的出块时间更短 1773 01:57:38,682 --> 01:57:44,682 同时比特币自身选择了一个更保守的区块大小限制 1774 01:57:44,682 --> 01:57:49,682 所以比特币上手费可能会更高昂等等 1775 01:57:49,682 --> 01:57:54,682 但是在我看来可能这背后其实有更深层的原因 1776 01:57:54,682 --> 01:57:58,682 事实上比特币社区内的技术创新 1777 01:57:58,682 --> 01:58:00,682 在过去十年一直非常活跃 1778 01:58:01,682 --> 01:58:05,682 比如现在大家早已熟知的NFT等概念 1779 01:58:05,682 --> 01:58:09,682 最早来源和实现都是源自比特币社区 1780 01:58:09,682 --> 01:58:14,682 但跟以太坊平台热闹的时间范围不同的地方在于 1781 01:58:14,682 --> 01:58:18,682 比特币上各种创新概念的诞生和应用 1782 01:58:18,682 --> 01:58:24,682 往往伴随着社区之内巨大的一种争议和阻力 1783 01:58:24,682 --> 01:58:28,682 那么比特币特有的深深的这种生态文化观念 1784 01:58:28,682 --> 01:58:35,682 一直深刻的影响着应用领域在其中的发展 1785 01:58:35,682 --> 01:58:39,682 而这些影响可能在长期被低估 1786 01:58:39,682 --> 01:58:44,682 那么眼下随着整体技术观念的不断更迭 1787 01:58:44,682 --> 01:58:49,682 人们看待使用和发展比特币技术的观念也在悄悄改变 1788 01:58:49,682 --> 01:58:55,682 我将在此选取三个比特币社区文化观念变迁的历史性时刻 1789 01:58:55,682 --> 01:58:58,682 以期回顾和展望比特币的生态发展 1790 01:59:01,682 --> 01:59:02,682 首先 1791 01:59:04,682 --> 01:59:12,682 第一个历史性时刻就是还是有关比特币扩容方案的覆盖层 1792 01:59:12,682 --> 01:59:20,682 2012年1月6日JRVillage在知名的论坛Bitcoin Talk上公布了 1793 01:59:20,682 --> 01:59:26,682 他的白皮书叫The Second Bitcoin White Paper 1794 01:59:26,682 --> 01:59:33,682 那么这样的白皮书标题哪怕放到现在都属于非常激进 1795 01:59:33,682 --> 01:59:39,682 这也为日后JR更多的一些疯狂创新埋下了伏笔 1796 01:59:39,682 --> 01:59:42,682 所谓覆盖层通常是指使用了比特币 1797 01:59:42,682 --> 01:59:45,682 但没有自己的区块链的系统 1798 01:59:45,682 --> 01:59:50,682 比如一个rowup也许由一串区块组成 1799 01:59:50,682 --> 01:59:52,682 但它并不是一个区块链 1800 01:59:54,682 --> 02:00:01,682 通常我们可以认为覆盖层在复杂性和维护成本上都比区块链要大大的节约 1801 02:00:01,682 --> 02:00:06,682 常见的这种方案除了我们OMNI之外 1802 02:00:06,682 --> 02:00:10,682 还有counterparty以及染色币的其他变种 1803 02:00:10,682 --> 02:00:12,682 下面就涉及到一个问题 1804 02:00:12,682 --> 02:00:14,682 什么是染色币 1805 02:00:16,682 --> 02:00:20,682 大家可以看一下当时JR写的白皮书 1806 02:00:22,682 --> 02:00:26,682 这个白皮书后来形成了mastercoin的一个主体方案 1807 02:00:26,682 --> 02:00:28,682 也就是OMNI项目的前身 1808 02:00:28,682 --> 02:00:31,682 当时还在做比特币 1809 02:00:35,682 --> 02:00:37,682 当时还在做比特币 1810 02:00:38,682 --> 02:00:45,682 很多人都对这个项目抱有了巨大的期待 1811 02:00:45,682 --> 02:00:49,682 包括Vitalik13年的时候对这个项目也非常感兴趣 1812 02:00:49,682 --> 02:00:52,682 并且在他自己的那本杂志上 1813 02:00:52,682 --> 02:00:58,682 对mastercoin做出了大量长篇的报道 1814 02:00:58,682 --> 02:01:02,682 同时跟后来的OMNI团队有过相当多的讨论 1815 02:01:02,682 --> 02:01:05,682 直接促进了后来以太坊的诞生 1816 02:01:06,682 --> 02:01:09,682 另外在此要恭喜一下以太坊团队 1817 02:01:09,682 --> 02:01:14,682 因为他们最近刚刚完成了重要的以太坊上海更新 1818 02:01:22,682 --> 02:01:27,682 下面是关于染色币当时在历史上的一些争议 1819 02:01:27,682 --> 02:01:30,682 始于2013年的染色币 1820 02:01:31,682 --> 02:01:33,682 顾名思义可以形成了比喻为 1821 02:01:33,682 --> 02:01:36,682 人们对小额比特币进行染色 1822 02:01:36,682 --> 02:01:40,682 用以代表自己所持的其他资产 1823 02:01:40,682 --> 02:01:45,682 从而使更多类型的资产都可以通过比特币区块链进行交易 1824 02:01:46,682 --> 02:01:49,682 通常一个染色币的token会有两个层面组成 1825 02:01:49,682 --> 02:01:54,682 一个是映射资产的凭证 1826 02:01:54,682 --> 02:01:56,682 另外就是一个被映射的资产 1827 02:01:56,682 --> 02:02:01,682 由于奥米尼以及染色币概念的兴起 1828 02:02:01,682 --> 02:02:03,682 引起了宣传大波 1829 02:02:03,682 --> 02:02:08,682 不过我记得13到14年在各种交易所上主流的交易队 1830 02:02:08,682 --> 02:02:13,682 还是以各种山寨币或者说是比特币变种为主 1831 02:02:13,682 --> 02:02:20,682 那个时候在比特币上发行的一些实验性的数字资产还远为成熟 1832 02:02:20,682 --> 02:02:25,682 虽然虽然现在比特币上发行资产也不是主流 1833 02:02:25,682 --> 02:02:29,682 但是当时对于这样一个重大技术创新 1834 02:02:29,682 --> 02:02:33,682 在比特币社区内不可避免的引起了惊涛骇浪 1835 02:02:37,682 --> 02:02:43,682 当时主要的这种反对声音 1836 02:02:43,682 --> 02:02:46,682 就是对UTXO的一种滥用 1837 02:02:46,682 --> 02:02:52,682 以这位Jeff Garcic为主的一个论调 1838 02:02:52,682 --> 02:03:02,682 就是说UTXO传输一些浪费节点志愿者的网络资源的数据 1839 02:03:02,682 --> 02:03:04,682 是对比特币一种威胁 1840 02:03:04,682 --> 02:03:07,682 当时就有很多人 1841 02:03:07,682 --> 02:03:10,682 很多一些试图去扩展比特币功能的人 1842 02:03:10,682 --> 02:03:14,682 就是跟Jeff进行频繁讨论 1843 02:03:14,682 --> 02:03:16,682 有点有意思的是 1844 02:03:16,682 --> 02:03:20,682 后来他参与了一个比特币的侧脸项目 1845 02:03:20,682 --> 02:03:22,682 所以我很好奇这个项目 1846 02:03:22,682 --> 02:03:27,682 有没有让比特币存储他之前所批判的这些类似的数据 1847 02:03:27,682 --> 02:03:35,682 那么当时Vitalik为代表提出了 1848 02:03:35,682 --> 02:03:40,682 当你合理的使用技术并且产生相应的花费 1849 02:03:40,682 --> 02:03:43,682 那么你的行为其实就是有合法性的 1850 02:03:43,682 --> 02:03:47,682 所以像Jeff这样的论调 1851 02:03:47,682 --> 02:03:54,682 他没有权利代表所有的比特币人 1852 02:03:54,682 --> 02:04:00,682 这里是一个关于当年染色币和以太坊 1853 02:04:00,682 --> 02:04:13,682 两种类型Token的一个逻辑的分析 1854 02:04:13,682 --> 02:04:20,682 然后我对当时的Token的一个看法就是 1855 02:04:20,682 --> 02:04:27,682 由于你很难去对你持有的凭证认证并且成对 1856 02:04:27,682 --> 02:04:30,682 所以经常会有资产发行方单方面作恶 1857 02:04:30,682 --> 02:04:35,682 导致支撑整个Token的信用体系崩溃 1858 02:04:35,682 --> 02:04:38,682 包括BitShares在内的很多项目 1859 02:04:38,682 --> 02:04:43,682 其实在14到15年左右都做过相应探索 1860 02:04:43,682 --> 02:04:45,682 另外在Token经济领域前几天 1861 02:04:45,682 --> 02:04:49,682 肖峰总也有关于三代币模型等具体论述 1862 02:04:49,682 --> 02:04:57,682 所以这里我就也点到为止 1863 02:04:57,682 --> 02:05:02,682 然后在Token经济的早期时代 1864 02:05:02,682 --> 02:05:04,682 其实也有些明星项目 1865 02:05:04,682 --> 02:05:14,682 包括最早在我们的Omni Layer上发行USDT的Tether 1866 02:05:14,682 --> 02:05:17,682 另外关于Omni本身 1867 02:05:17,682 --> 02:05:21,682 还有一些有意思的可以分享给大家的事情 1868 02:05:21,682 --> 02:05:26,682 就是有一天跟OK的创始人许总吃饭 1869 02:05:26,682 --> 02:05:28,682 然后他就说 1870 02:05:29,682 --> 02:05:33,682 那时候大家都在用 1871 02:05:33,682 --> 02:05:35,682 但是经常出问题 1872 02:05:35,682 --> 02:05:38,682 这里也跟这些行业巨头们道个歉 1873 02:05:38,682 --> 02:05:42,682 然后因为Omni的开发和维护人员的力量 1874 02:05:42,682 --> 02:05:43,682 一直很吃紧 1875 02:05:43,682 --> 02:05:47,682 所以也欢迎大家前来赞助我们的开发 1876 02:05:47,682 --> 02:05:49,682 或者提供相应的帮助 1877 02:05:49,682 --> 02:05:57,682 虽然USDT后来取得巨大成功 1878 02:05:57,682 --> 02:05:59,682 但是显而易见 1879 02:05:59,682 --> 02:06:04,682 他也一直在承受刚才提到的一些成对方面的压力 1880 02:06:04,682 --> 02:06:09,682 总之Omni在区块链行业历史上的位置有着浓厚的一笔 1881 02:06:09,682 --> 02:06:18,682 并且还保持着火力 1882 02:06:18,682 --> 02:06:25,682 当时JR还有一个 1883 02:06:25,682 --> 02:06:26,682 还有一个很大的创举 1884 02:06:26,682 --> 02:06:30,682 他的创举就是他在发起这个项目的时候 1885 02:06:30,682 --> 02:06:33,682 其实他是最早利用了ICU这种形式的 1886 02:06:33,682 --> 02:06:39,682 那么为了开发当时的MasterCoin也就是Omni协议 1887 02:06:39,682 --> 02:06:45,682 所以他就发动了一个代币重筹 1888 02:06:45,682 --> 02:06:50,682 然后对于这样一个二层协议上的创新理念 1889 02:06:50,682 --> 02:07:09,682 直到今天仍然影响着行业内的很多内在逻辑 1890 02:07:09,682 --> 02:07:11,682 另外我顺带提一下 1891 02:07:11,682 --> 02:07:14,682 当时USDT的创始人跟我说过 1892 02:07:14,682 --> 02:07:20,682 他们当时做代币的目的是为了解决加密资产 1893 02:07:20,682 --> 02:07:26,682 当时加密交易所很难做法币出入金 1894 02:07:26,682 --> 02:07:36,682 所以他们就想到了用一个稳定币来去帮助这些交易所解决这种问题 1895 02:07:36,682 --> 02:07:39,682 由此而想到我们现在很幸运 1896 02:07:39,682 --> 02:07:44,682 是有中安虚拟银行这样的一个很好的服务 1897 02:07:44,682 --> 02:07:57,682 所以现在加密交易所和个人都可以相对容易的触及到这种法币出入金的业务 1898 02:07:57,682 --> 02:08:01,682 这里还有其他附带层的项目 1899 02:08:01,682 --> 02:08:04,682 我想可能今天已经有嘉宾介绍过了 1900 02:08:04,682 --> 02:08:11,682 所以我就不再赘述 1901 02:08:11,682 --> 02:08:20,682 我们曾经在跟闪电网络合作过程当中也产生过一些其他灵感 1902 02:08:20,682 --> 02:08:27,682 包括我在17年和另外一个企业家也是律师的朋友 1903 02:08:27,682 --> 02:08:34,682 有过一个创意就是把Omini上发行的Token在闪电网络里进行流通 1904 02:08:34,682 --> 02:08:38,682 直到18年底或19年初的时候 1905 02:08:38,682 --> 02:08:43,682 我们才有机缘和这种足够的资源去在Omini内实现这个技术 1906 02:08:43,682 --> 02:08:48,682 目前项目一直在有一个专业团队在推进 1907 02:08:57,682 --> 02:09:03,682 然后侧链项目我也不再做太多的介绍 1908 02:09:03,682 --> 02:09:08,682 因为之前的嘉宾有一位是侧链方面的专家 1909 02:09:08,682 --> 02:09:13,682 然后放在这里面是为了让整个演讲逻辑显得更加完整 1910 02:09:13,682 --> 02:09:20,682 同时我在我看来覆盖层其实已经可以为比特币带来很多好处 1911 02:09:20,682 --> 02:09:22,682 同时构造更简单 1912 02:09:22,682 --> 02:09:26,682 对比特币的伤害也更小 1913 02:09:26,682 --> 02:09:33,682 让我们把时间线拉到现在 1914 02:09:33,682 --> 02:09:38,682 2023年1月20日 1915 02:09:38,682 --> 02:09:43,682 Odinus协议正式推出 1916 02:09:43,682 --> 02:09:52,682 其实我想很多人还没有意识到 1917 02:09:52,682 --> 02:09:56,682 因为比特币开始其实就是支持智能合约的 1918 02:09:56,682 --> 02:09:59,682 但是它只是简单的脚本程序 1919 02:09:59,682 --> 02:10:02,682 不过我很喜欢这种简单的艺术 1920 02:10:02,682 --> 02:10:08,682 我愿意称比特币的脚本设计为一种简约的艺术 1921 02:10:08,682 --> 02:10:18,682 不可避免的 1922 02:10:18,682 --> 02:10:23,682 不可避免的Odinus也带给了比特币创新文化的一种巨大冲击 1923 02:10:23,682 --> 02:10:30,682 但是有了之前对比特币扩容方案口诛笔伐的这个诸欲在前 1924 02:10:30,682 --> 02:10:33,682 我们可以看到经过11年后正反双方的看法 1925 02:10:33,682 --> 02:10:37,682 僵持点还是基本不变的 1926 02:10:37,682 --> 02:10:44,682 但有意思的是Odinus协议这次是直接在比特币链上做很多文章 1927 02:10:44,682 --> 02:10:50,682 并且22年初跟比特币改进提案小组直接展开了沟通 1928 02:10:50,682 --> 02:11:03,682 所以这种公开的形式也是很有意思 1929 02:11:03,682 --> 02:11:13,682 我的一个观点就是如何利用比特币的可编程性 1930 02:11:13,682 --> 02:11:18,682 并且形成一种组合 1931 02:11:18,682 --> 02:11:28,682 其实在OP Return输出中的金融交易在本质上和全节点存储的其他东西没有什么不同 1932 02:11:28,682 --> 02:11:35,682 核心的问题在于比特币的核心圈子一直在奉行一种资源使用最小化的原则 1933 02:11:35,682 --> 02:11:38,682 拒绝低成本交易占用区块空间 1934 02:11:38,682 --> 02:11:44,682 哪怕像Omni Layer这样的一个覆盖层当年都受到了严重质疑 1935 02:11:44,682 --> 02:11:51,682 那么之前没有出现Odinus这样的做法 1936 02:11:51,682 --> 02:11:55,682 很大程度是因为圈子里开发者在坚持初心 1937 02:11:55,682 --> 02:12:00,682 而不是因为Odinus的技术有特别的突破 1938 02:12:00,682 --> 02:12:07,682 虽然我也感到Odinus在主链上存储大量数据的方式不够优雅 1939 02:12:07,682 --> 02:12:11,682 但正如其作者所说 1940 02:12:11,682 --> 02:12:15,682 他希望让比特币变得再次有意思起来 1941 02:12:15,682 --> 02:12:18,682 那么在这一点上他非常成功 1942 02:12:18,682 --> 02:12:25,682 我非常欣赏这种很浪漫的这种技术行动 1943 02:12:25,682 --> 02:12:32,682 同时我也提倡数据的公共领域应该形成相应的这种行为准则 1944 02:12:32,682 --> 02:12:37,682 只要支付费用就可以做任何事情的这种说法 1945 02:12:37,682 --> 02:12:43,682 听起来不太对劲 1946 02:12:43,682 --> 02:12:47,682 我认可的是Odinus吸引人们重启对比特币的一种兴趣 1947 02:12:47,682 --> 02:12:58,682 同时对生态观念层面上的这种探索思考 1948 02:12:58,682 --> 02:13:03,682 然后第三个历史时刻我就选择是今天 1949 02:13:03,682 --> 02:13:06,682 2023年4月14日 1950 02:13:06,682 --> 02:13:12,682 此时我们在香港将会一起创造和见证历史 1951 02:13:28,682 --> 02:13:35,682 纵观人类科技发展史 1952 02:13:35,682 --> 02:13:41,682 相当多的伟大发明其实是人类发现了前人成果之外的用途 1953 02:13:41,682 --> 02:13:46,682 并且这种发现和灵感来源不仅是思维和专业的沉淀 1954 02:13:46,682 --> 02:13:50,682 我想更多的是一种灵性对人性的一种启示 1955 02:13:50,682 --> 02:13:54,682 尽管比特币社区的创新一直非常活跃 1956 02:13:54,682 --> 02:13:59,682 很多方面都走在了区块链创新的前沿 1957 02:13:59,682 --> 02:14:05,682 但比特币生态的发展主要仍然是一个主观问题 1958 02:14:05,682 --> 02:14:08,682 即社区观念的问题 1959 02:14:08,682 --> 02:14:12,682 在我看来生态的扩展并不总是跟消极相关的 1960 02:14:12,682 --> 02:14:17,682 而消极的结果恰恰往往来自于消极的看法和观点 1961 02:14:17,682 --> 02:14:21,682 虽然我能够理解一些比特币人的审慎 1962 02:14:21,682 --> 02:14:26,682 比特币当时的横空出世是那么的让人激动人心 1963 02:14:26,682 --> 02:14:32,682 我到现在还记得十年前第一次接触并且使用比特币的感受 1964 02:14:32,682 --> 02:14:38,682 我也知道比特币还承担着其他的使命 1965 02:14:38,682 --> 02:14:44,682 不仅是行业上的甚至可以说是承载着一些人类的特殊使命 1966 02:14:44,682 --> 02:14:50,682 因此在比特币上每一次改动都将牵动人心 1967 02:14:51,682 --> 02:14:54,682 如果我们能够时刻回到当下 1968 02:14:54,682 --> 02:14:56,682 秉持着一种不念功利 1969 02:14:56,682 --> 02:14:59,682 以超然的视角看待每一次创新的诞生 1970 02:14:59,682 --> 02:15:01,682 每一次观念的碰撞 1971 02:15:01,682 --> 02:15:05,682 并带着良知良能去做好我们所感兴趣的事 1972 02:15:05,682 --> 02:15:07,682 我相信不仅是比特币社区 1973 02:15:07,682 --> 02:15:13,682 乃至区块链行业和人类社会都会因此受用不尽 1974 02:15:20,682 --> 02:15:26,682 虽然我一直在Omni Foundation 1975 02:15:26,682 --> 02:15:35,682 但是我也曾经关注过很多各种各样的技术领域 1976 02:15:35,682 --> 02:15:41,682 但我想接下来我将会专注于推进比特币生态的发展 1977 02:15:41,682 --> 02:15:45,682 并且做出一些行业的贡献 1978 02:15:45,682 --> 02:15:47,682 谢谢大家 1979 02:16:15,682 --> 02:16:28,682 怎么按 1980 02:16:28,682 --> 02:16:35,682 好 1981 02:16:35,682 --> 02:16:36,682 哈喽大家好 1982 02:16:36,682 --> 02:16:37,682 喂 1983 02:16:37,682 --> 02:16:38,682 可以听到吗 1984 02:16:38,682 --> 02:16:39,682 喂 1985 02:16:39,682 --> 02:16:40,682 这个好一点 1986 02:16:40,682 --> 02:16:41,682 哈喽大家好 1987 02:16:42,682 --> 02:16:45,682 非常感谢大家这个在下午这个时间点 1988 02:16:45,682 --> 02:16:51,682 来听我来分享一个关于比特币挖矿全球能源布局的一个报告 1989 02:16:51,682 --> 02:16:55,682 对这个终于这个几连续三天的时间 1990 02:16:55,682 --> 02:16:59,682 都是跟都是跟web3相关的很多的项目 1991 02:16:59,682 --> 02:17:07,682 让我们能够时隔疫情之后再度看到非常繁华的这个现场 1992 02:17:07,682 --> 02:17:08,682 那也很难得 1993 02:17:08,682 --> 02:17:11,682 我们经历了这么多周期到今天 1994 02:17:11,682 --> 02:17:13,682 依然坚守在这个行业当中 1995 02:17:13,682 --> 02:17:14,682 今天呢 1996 02:17:14,682 --> 02:17:20,682 我们就来主动分享一下关于比特币相关的一些内容 1997 02:17:20,682 --> 02:17:23,682 嗯 1998 02:17:23,682 --> 02:17:29,682 这个因为前面有几位老师已经讲了非常多关于比特币一些比特币挖矿 1999 02:17:29,682 --> 02:17:32,682 以及比特币网络相关的一些基础介绍 2000 02:17:32,682 --> 02:17:33,682 所以呢 2001 02:17:33,682 --> 02:17:36,682 我就专注于能源相关的部分呢 2002 02:17:36,682 --> 02:17:38,682 来做一些相对多的一些分享 2003 02:17:38,682 --> 02:17:40,682 那比特币挖矿呢 2004 02:17:40,682 --> 02:17:42,682 不仅是维护比特币网络的基本环节 2005 02:17:42,682 --> 02:17:47,682 同时也是连接虚拟货币和物理世界的关键环节 2006 02:17:47,682 --> 02:17:48,682 那原因很简单 2007 02:17:48,682 --> 02:17:52,682 就是比特币的产生是由mining来 2008 02:17:52,682 --> 02:17:55,682 这个计算过程来进行产出的 2009 02:17:55,682 --> 02:18:00,682 那我们来分享一下比特币挖矿的一些重点环节 2010 02:18:00,682 --> 02:18:02,682 那挖矿的整个过程其实非常简单 2011 02:18:03,682 --> 02:18:06,682 就是我们有三个部分和三个重点环节 2012 02:18:06,682 --> 02:18:07,682 一个是呢 2013 02:18:07,682 --> 02:18:12,682 我们采用比较高效的这个基础设施 2014 02:18:12,682 --> 02:18:14,682 就是我们的矿机miner 2015 02:18:14,682 --> 02:18:16,682 然后同时呢拥有全球 2016 02:18:16,682 --> 02:18:21,682 找到全球最稳定和最价格更低廉的电力 2017 02:18:21,682 --> 02:18:23,682 然后进行计算 2018 02:18:23,682 --> 02:18:24,682 那产生比特币 2019 02:18:24,682 --> 02:18:25,682 同时呢 2020 02:18:25,682 --> 02:18:27,682 我们就要有比较有经验的团队 2021 02:18:27,682 --> 02:18:28,682 管理团队也好 2022 02:18:28,682 --> 02:18:29,682 也好建设团队也好 2023 02:18:29,682 --> 02:18:32,682 也好把这些所有的环节把它连接起来 2024 02:18:32,682 --> 02:18:33,682 所以呢 2025 02:18:33,682 --> 02:18:35,682 就比特币挖矿本身这个业务来讲 2026 02:18:35,682 --> 02:18:38,682 它是一个非常简单和单一的过程 2027 02:18:40,682 --> 02:18:44,682 这个就是一个比特币挖矿的一个环节 2028 02:18:44,682 --> 02:18:49,682 那这个是就是非常简单就可以产生比特币 2029 02:18:49,682 --> 02:18:52,682 那在比特币从技术角度来讲呢 2030 02:18:52,682 --> 02:18:53,682 它的整个原理呢 2031 02:18:53,682 --> 02:18:58,682 是验证交易和保护比特币基础网络的一个过程 2032 02:18:58,682 --> 02:19:00,682 比特币网络中的交易呢 2033 02:19:00,682 --> 02:19:03,682 被记录到每一个区块当中 2034 02:19:03,682 --> 02:19:06,682 矿工们就是像我们这样的miner 2035 02:19:06,682 --> 02:19:07,682 争相计算 2036 02:19:07,682 --> 02:19:09,682 在整个计算计账的过程当中 2037 02:19:09,682 --> 02:19:10,682 虽然比较复杂 2038 02:19:10,682 --> 02:19:13,682 但是它是非常容易被验证的 2039 02:19:13,682 --> 02:19:14,682 计算的过程呢 2040 02:19:14,682 --> 02:19:18,682 一旦这个交易过程被认证了之后 2041 02:19:18,682 --> 02:19:22,682 那这个整个网络就获得了确认 2042 02:19:22,682 --> 02:19:24,682 在确认完毕之后呢 2043 02:19:24,682 --> 02:19:27,682 会组成一条新的区块链 2044 02:19:27,682 --> 02:19:32,682 在这个区块链的连接区块链 2045 02:19:32,682 --> 02:19:34,682 连接区块的当中 2046 02:19:34,682 --> 02:19:36,682 连接成区块链当中 2047 02:19:36,682 --> 02:19:37,682 矿工们会获得 2048 02:19:37,682 --> 02:19:41,682 因为我的计算会获得奖励 2049 02:19:41,682 --> 02:19:43,682 那这个整个的过程呢 2050 02:19:43,682 --> 02:19:45,682 是每十分钟产生一次 2051 02:19:45,682 --> 02:19:47,682 大家知道2014年 2052 02:19:47,682 --> 02:19:48,682 也就是明年的三月份 2053 02:19:48,682 --> 02:19:51,682 会进行比特币的下一次减半 2054 02:19:51,682 --> 02:19:53,682 到现在目前为止呢 2055 02:19:53,682 --> 02:19:55,682 每天会产生900个比特币 2056 02:19:55,682 --> 02:19:56,682 包括 2057 02:19:56,682 --> 02:20:01,682 每天会产生900个比特币 包括奖励在内 那么每一个区块呢 会出6 25个比特币 2058 02:20:02,722 --> 02:20:09,882 好 这个是我们已经看到的 全球来自不同的传统金融机构 以各种各样的方式来进行 2059 02:20:10,522 --> 02:20:13,682 拥抱比特币 有来自支付的 有来自资管的 有来自 2060 02:20:14,442 --> 02:20:19,202 还有一些上市公司通过购买比特币来作为自己的一些价值储备 2061 02:20:19,962 --> 02:20:26,122 那比特币 比特币矿机呢 这么多年的发展呢 我们看得到 2062 02:20:26,802 --> 02:20:30,402 从我 我们自己是18年开始进入到这个行业的 2063 02:20:30,962 --> 02:20:36,762 到现在为止 比特币矿场及矿机的规模呢 其实是发生了非常大的变化 2064 02:20:37,482 --> 02:20:40,882 从这个0910年就最早期的这种 2065 02:20:41,842 --> 02:20:45,282 通过非常小规模的就在自己家里面挖矿 2066 02:20:45,682 --> 02:20:47,882 或者通过电脑或者一些cpu的 2067 02:20:48,242 --> 02:20:51,802 一些设备 然后到至今为止2013年 2068 02:20:52,522 --> 02:20:58,162 开始逐渐有专业的 当s 矿机出现到现在有专业的大型矿场 2069 02:20:58,762 --> 02:21:04,642 到从最早在中国有70%的比特币的这个算力到现在 2070 02:21:05,282 --> 02:21:12,042 主力是主要是在美国 那美国有将近百分现在有将近50%的这个算力 2071 02:21:12,642 --> 02:21:18,362 这样的一个整个的发展的过程吧 那我们也是见证了整个过程的这个发展 2072 02:21:20,082 --> 02:21:26,482 呃 因为刚刚我们也讲到了这个比特币设备的效率的提升 所以我们也看到了 2073 02:21:27,442 --> 02:21:30,722 带来的结果就是全网难度的上升 2074 02:21:31,442 --> 02:21:35,722 那从09年到18年 其实它的生长速度非常快 2075 02:21:36,322 --> 02:21:40,242 每一个周期有几十将近十倍的这个增长 2076 02:21:40,602 --> 02:21:47,002 那近两年呢 因为它的基数已经非常大了 从18年开始这个我们是18年进入到这个行业 2077 02:21:47,562 --> 02:21:54,322 100多亿的这个增长到现在已经奔着400亿去了 我们能够看到的原因呢 就是基础设施的 2078 02:21:55,322 --> 02:22:02,042 快速的发展 还有以及传统金融的这个巨头开始关注到这个行业 导致非常多的 2079 02:22:02,882 --> 02:22:04,722 这个算力的上上升 2080 02:22:06,242 --> 02:22:12,442 呃 那么这个虽然即使最近前一段时间前一个小周期币价虽然在 2081 02:22:12,962 --> 02:22:17,242 低谷 但是我们也能同步看到的是比特币难度的上涨 2082 02:22:17,682 --> 02:22:22,482 所以在这个阶段呢 其实矿工是比较难受的 就是币价比较低 但是呢 2083 02:22:23,082 --> 02:22:30,522 矿机 但是的这个全网的算力呢 却不停的增长 那么我们对于未来算力增长的难度的预期呢 其实也是非常的 2084 02:22:30,922 --> 02:22:37,322 呃 可呃 正向来讲 就是呃 难度还会继续增长 且增长的速度会非常的快 2085 02:22:38,042 --> 02:22:45,202 啊 那当然这里面有一些 呃 相对比较大的瓶颈 就是啊 矿场的这个建设 它本身是需要一个建设周期的 2086 02:22:45,802 --> 02:22:52,122 啊 那除了我们看到矿机本身的发展呢 我们看到它周边的这些设备也是在不停的 2087 02:22:52,522 --> 02:23:00,122 呃 变化 比如说从我们最早在挖矿的这个呃 呃 传统的风冷的这个冷却设备 2088 02:23:00,522 --> 02:23:06,042 到 呃 通过密闭式的这个开始有这个像矿箱一样的专业设备 2089 02:23:06,482 --> 02:23:11,402 到 呃 前段时间 呃 非常火爆 大家都在推行的这个夜冷 2090 02:23:11,762 --> 02:23:16,562 啊 在夜冷的同时呢 还有静静默式的水冷和夜冷 那这样的 2091 02:23:17,042 --> 02:23:22,482 呃 过程呢 其实有多个原因去推动它完成啊 比如说我们 2092 02:23:23,242 --> 02:23:25,802 需要更相对比 因为我们现在 2093 02:23:26,282 --> 02:23:34,282 呃 在挖矿的大部分的地方呢 其实是都是比较偏远的 那我们希望自己能够去构建一个相对比较好的 2094 02:23:34,642 --> 02:23:38,322 呃 环境啊 比如说像我们啊 在Texas 2095 02:23:38,722 --> 02:23:40,802 对吧 达拉斯的西部其实是 2096 02:23:41,202 --> 02:23:47,482 呃 既风沙很大啊 同时又呃 在6-9月份温度又很高 长达50多度 2097 02:23:47,842 --> 02:23:51,762 那我们其实在传统的风冷矿场呢 已经做了非常大的改善 2098 02:23:52,202 --> 02:23:56,642 但是在改善冷却的同时呢 我们又没有办法阻挡风沙的进入 2099 02:23:57,002 --> 02:24:03,642 因为当阻挡了风沙的进入 又没有办法去排风等等会遇到了非常多实际的情况 那这也是 2100 02:24:04,202 --> 02:24:11,322 让我们看到在风冷时代的一个告别式吧 同时呢 我们迎来了新的水冷时代 2101 02:24:11,722 --> 02:24:14,562 和静默式的这个时代 那我们 2102 02:24:15,762 --> 02:24:20,602 矿工也是在新的新的机会里面看到了说 那我们 2103 02:24:21,202 --> 02:24:27,722 抛弃了传统风冷的这种散热方式 选择更加稳定的夜冷和静默式的水冷方式 2104 02:24:28,082 --> 02:24:35,842 然后消除噪音 更加的环保 更加的esg 所以呢 这个也是让矿让矿工从 2105 02:24:36,642 --> 02:24:42,162 原来的个体散户到逐渐机构化的一个一个重要指标吧 嗯 2106 02:24:43,802 --> 02:24:48,362 然后呢 这个后面的部分呢 其实也是我重点比较想去跟大家分享的 2107 02:24:48,922 --> 02:24:56,322 我们看到了从21年之后 全球的这个算力格局的一个巨大的变化 2108 02:24:56,722 --> 02:25:03,162 啊 从先从种类上来讲 从原来我们依靠比较传统的能源 比如说煤炭 2109 02:25:03,682 --> 02:25:06,962 火电天然气啊 到现在越来越多的 2110 02:25:07,802 --> 02:25:15,762 这个走向可持续发展的这个能源啊 到现在今天还有分享用核电来挖矿的 还有我们之前 2111 02:25:16,802 --> 02:25:19,122 尝试过用垃圾处理的方式 2112 02:25:19,842 --> 02:25:24,482 来进行挖矿的 还有以及水电 太阳能 还有风电 2113 02:25:25,242 --> 02:25:30,882 嗯 这个就是一个用逐渐大家开始走向清洁能源和可再生能源的一个过程 2114 02:25:31,402 --> 02:25:36,962 然后呢 因为矿工其实啊 某种程度上来讲 挖矿就是一个 2115 02:25:38,002 --> 02:25:40,002 这个挖矿有点像电池了 2116 02:25:40,722 --> 02:25:42,922 他在不断的储备 2117 02:25:43,562 --> 02:25:50,722 不断的去储备那些比较边缘化的能源 让这些能源 因为他不能上网 没有办法提供给 2118 02:25:51,522 --> 02:25:58,082 市政没有办法提供给老百姓来进行日常使用 而我们把这些电力逐渐转化为 2119 02:25:58,802 --> 02:26:06,802 逐渐逐渐转化为像比特币这样能够储值能源相关的这个资产这样的一个产生 2120 02:26:07,282 --> 02:26:13,522 那么像现在我们选择的地方 因为矿工一定会去选择能源价格最便宜 2121 02:26:13,882 --> 02:26:18,682 而且那这样的这样的场地呢 基本上都是比较边缘的地方 2122 02:26:19,242 --> 02:26:27,082 那当然逐渐最近也开始有非常多的产地往更发达的地方发达地区去发展 那与此同时呢 2123 02:26:28,562 --> 02:26:32,482 但我们其实跟传统能源没有这么多的竞争 因为我们选择的地方 2124 02:26:32,882 --> 02:26:41,642 都是比较偏僻的 比较因为不能上网 因为不能上网而导致这些能源被浪费的这样的一些能源 2125 02:26:43,522 --> 02:26:51,922 因为挖矿刚刚提到了 因为挖矿能源的多样性呢 2126 02:26:52,522 --> 02:26:56,442 以及有整个挖矿产业越来越趋向于环保 2127 02:26:57,042 --> 02:27:01,762 所以呢 到现在为止 我们可以看到有几个数据可以给大家分享一下 2128 02:27:02,842 --> 02:27:08,922 比特币矿业的耗电量呢 其实关于这个问题啊 我先讲一下啊 在 2129 02:27:09,482 --> 02:27:12,642 几年以前有一些地方和国家把 2130 02:27:13,322 --> 02:27:16,882 地区和国家把比特币挖矿定义成高耗能产业 2131 02:27:17,482 --> 02:27:22,522 那究竟它是不是高耗能产业呢 我分享几个数据 大家可以来进行评估一下 2132 02:27:23,482 --> 02:27:29,442 首先呢 这个比利挖矿的耗电量呢 占全球总能源的耗电量呢 0.17% 2133 02:27:30,122 --> 02:27:35,762 呃 这个产生碳排放呢 也仅仅占全球碳排放量的0.11% 2134 02:27:36,522 --> 02:27:41,322 那上一个季度呢 上一个年度就指的是2022年的这个年度 2135 02:27:42,042 --> 02:27:43,002 全球呢 这个 2136 02:27:43,602 --> 02:27:47,162 同年同比例增长的算力呢 增长45% 2137 02:27:47,642 --> 02:27:54,642 但是我们的能源使用率呢 仅仅增长了25% 这意味着我们的利用能源的效率其实提升了非常的多 2138 02:27:55,242 --> 02:28:01,802 最后结论呢 是说比特币呢 其实是可在可可持续发展能源当中的 2139 02:28:02,162 --> 02:28:09,282 非常大的啊 在去推动可继续发展 也自己意识到了我们应该去多使用可继续发展能源 2140 02:28:09,722 --> 02:28:17,882 啊 所以呢 我们在可持续发展的能源组合当中呢 啊 我们占这个使用量占58.9% 2141 02:28:18,282 --> 02:28:27,362 我打这个 这个简单话来讲呢 就是我们每用100度电 其中呢 呃 58.9度电是来自于可再生能源 2142 02:28:27,362 --> 02:28:35,282 这个数据呢 呃 这个这个相关的数据呢 呃 刚刚上午那个陆海天陆教授其实也提到了 2143 02:28:35,722 --> 02:28:43,682 啊 这个是关于一个一年 呃 各个行业的一年内的 呃 这个 呃 电力的使用量 2144 02:28:44,162 --> 02:28:47,842 呃 比特币呢 是啊 140太瓦时 2145 02:28:48,362 --> 02:28:54,962 啊 这个化学 呃 跟化学品相关的这个产生呢 是1349 2146 02:28:55,362 --> 02:28:58,082 啊 这个太瓦时啊 那其他的行业呢 2147 02:28:58,682 --> 02:29:00,802 各行业不同而已 我们知道除了 2148 02:29:01,482 --> 02:29:03,722 比特币之外呢 其实像传统的铝业 2149 02:29:04,162 --> 02:29:09,842 对吧 这个各个方向的制造业 纸业其实都是非常高耗能的产业 2150 02:29:10,202 --> 02:29:16,562 那当然我在这里这里面要特地讲一点 就是我们的耗能其实跟传统行业的耗能是不一样的 2151 02:29:16,922 --> 02:29:19,002 我们始终始终使用的是 2152 02:29:19,602 --> 02:29:23,322 呃 最简单来讲就是我们用的是边角料能源 2153 02:29:23,802 --> 02:29:31,802 对 比如说我们用了一些垃圾处理的能源 比如说我们用了一些不上网的能源 比如说我们用了一些偏远地区无法输送到 2154 02:29:32,202 --> 02:29:33,722 核心地区的这些能源 2155 02:29:34,882 --> 02:29:35,682 那其实这个 2156 02:29:36,122 --> 02:29:41,522 呃 本身的耗电量的本身又不大 与此同时呢 我们还用的是边角能源 2157 02:29:42,002 --> 02:29:45,642 因为我们这个行业 呃 比较特殊 因为比特币不停在波动 2158 02:29:46,002 --> 02:29:53,162 对吧 然后呢 加上比特币这个呃 去中心化的产物呢 让大家特别的关注 所以就容易放大 2159 02:29:53,762 --> 02:29:57,642 比特币能源的影响 对于整个全球能源的影响 2160 02:30:00,002 --> 02:30:03,282 呃 这个数据呢 是刚刚刚刚我们提到了说 2161 02:30:03,762 --> 02:30:09,602 呃 比特币的这个呃 这个挖矿的可再生能源的占比呢 是非常高的 2162 02:30:09,882 --> 02:30:17,242 58 8% 这个是什么概念呢 全球使用啊 可再生能源的所有国家当中对比起来 2163 02:30:17,722 --> 02:30:22,082 啊 德国是占比最高的 啊 德国呢 是占48 5% 2164 02:30:22,722 --> 02:30:26,922 那么也就是说 每使用100度电啊 德国有百分之 2165 02:30:27,842 --> 02:30:32,962 每100度电里面 德国有48 5度电是来自于可再生能源 2166 02:30:33,362 --> 02:30:39,242 而比特币每使用100度电有58 8是来自于这个可再生能源 2167 02:30:39,602 --> 02:30:42,202 所以我们已经在对比全球最 2168 02:30:42,722 --> 02:30:46,042 呃 发达且使用 呃 这个可再生能源 2169 02:30:46,522 --> 02:30:53,762 比例最高的国家 我们已经是比他已经相当领先 也相当在意可再生能源的这个使用啊 所以呢 2170 02:30:54,082 --> 02:30:59,362 呃 在这些地方呢 其实我们也是啊 更加关注这个esg的这个方向吧 2171 02:31:02,002 --> 02:31:05,042 呃 这个是一些啊 简单的一些案例吧 2172 02:31:05,402 --> 02:31:10,162 对 这个是我们看到的 比如说在风电厂旁边的这个德州的矿场 2173 02:31:10,482 --> 02:31:16,762 因为大家知道这个在美国的中部地区呢 是太是风电非常在美国的中部地区 2174 02:31:17,162 --> 02:31:23,962 是风电非常发达的 那我们也在德州啊 在建立我们跟风电相结合的这个比特币矿场 2175 02:31:24,362 --> 02:31:30,082 啊 当然啊 全球比较发达的几个地方啊 像巴拉圭的水电对吧 2176 02:31:30,442 --> 02:31:33,882 呃 当然也有人去像老挝这样的地方 老挝的水电 2177 02:31:34,282 --> 02:31:39,402 还有欧洲的澳洲的这个太阳能等等 其实已经有非常非常多的地方 2178 02:31:39,882 --> 02:31:42,002 在专注的使用清洁能源 2179 02:31:42,362 --> 02:31:46,242 但你说是不是矿工故意而为之呢 还是说因为这些清洁能源 2180 02:31:46,722 --> 02:31:49,922 确实他也是消耗 消纳不出去 所以我们来使用了 2181 02:31:50,482 --> 02:31:58,002 当然 我觉得很多程度上矿工只是为去寻找这个电价最低的地方 也刚好这些地方的产生都是由这些 2182 02:31:58,402 --> 02:32:03,882 呃 不能够持续性呃 持续性产生电力的能源而产生 比如说风电 2183 02:32:04,322 --> 02:32:09,842 那像比如说像我们自己啊 我们自己有一个虚拟矿场的一个规划 2184 02:32:10,242 --> 02:32:16,482 就是啊 每天晚上的时候是封地发电量的高峰期 而晚上的时候呢又是 2185 02:32:16,802 --> 02:32:22,122 呃 呃 这个老就是这个百老百姓就市政用电的低谷 那我们刚好 2186 02:32:22,482 --> 02:32:29,082 晚上的时候呢 把我们相对算力比较低的机器开起来啊 在美国 尤其德州最近这段时间晚上是负电量 2187 02:32:29,602 --> 02:32:33,522 负电力的价格基本上是在一美分或者是负一美分之间 2188 02:32:33,962 --> 02:32:40,562 所以也就是说在晚上的时候 我们凌晨我们使用使用这个电力不止德州还会当地还会 2189 02:32:41,122 --> 02:32:49,322 呃 当地呃 州政府还会奖励我们电费啊 或者是负电费 或者是呃 一到两美分左右的电价 2190 02:32:49,682 --> 02:32:53,842 所以呢 我觉得未来很可能会随着这些边缘的能源的 2191 02:32:54,282 --> 02:32:59,842 呃 释放 然后呢 大家会去来进行像电池一样去调控自己的这个机型 2192 02:32:59,842 --> 02:33:04,802 嗯 对 这个是一些 呃 光伏发电的一些矿场 2193 02:33:06,682 --> 02:33:11,082 呃 刚刚我们其实重点已经提到了 我们其实并没有在使用一些 2194 02:33:11,802 --> 02:33:19,602 核心的能源 因为核心的能源电价工业工业电的电价的成本是比较高的 所以矿工一直在寻找这些跟 2195 02:33:19,922 --> 02:33:27,442 比较相对比较边缘的能源啊 那这个数据呢 就是说啊 我们如果跟黄金开采相比较来讲 2196 02:33:27,842 --> 02:33:34,402 呃 我们其实挖比特币的这个耗电量呢 和黄金开采的用电量呢 其实是相当的 2197 02:33:34,682 --> 02:33:38,082 所以呢 比特币矿工其实并没有跟其他的行业 尤其是 2198 02:33:38,442 --> 02:33:44,562 呃 呃 重要的工业行业和一些居民用电所竞争相同的能源 而是我们去呃 2199 02:33:45,082 --> 02:33:48,802 而是我们去呃 使用的都是相对比较边缘和废弃的能源 2200 02:33:50,322 --> 02:33:56,322 然后 那这个呃 刚刚其实我们也提到了这个数据啊 就是我们整个比特币的能源 2201 02:33:56,802 --> 02:34:05,122 呃 的使用量呢 在全球能源只有0.17 也就是啊 它的使用量是非常非常小的 这个我们是可以看到的 我们 2202 02:34:06,802 --> 02:34:15,242 啊 然后呢 以及啊 比特币的这个耗能的耗电量和很多传统的其他的产业的比例也是更加乎可 2203 02:34:15,642 --> 02:34:16,482 可忽略不计 2204 02:34:17,042 --> 02:34:24,082 嗯 最后呢 我们再简单分享一下 因为从2021年开始 我们也去了非常多的 2205 02:34:24,762 --> 02:34:28,762 地方啊 从啊 中国的内蒙 云南 四川 新疆 2206 02:34:29,162 --> 02:34:35,642 对吧 到啊 哈萨克散 俄罗斯 中亚地区 到欧洲啊 冰岛 挪威 2207 02:34:36,122 --> 02:34:43,402 再到了巴拉圭 还有以及到了美国的非常多的州 其实我们也想跟大家分享一下这几年的一些算力的变化 2208 02:34:43,762 --> 02:34:46,122 啊 这个这个数据呢 就是从 2209 02:34:46,642 --> 02:34:49,842 啊 最早20年2020年之前吧 2210 02:34:50,242 --> 02:34:57,202 2021年之前可能70%的算力都是在中国 那现在百分之有将近34 35.4%的算力 2211 02:34:57,522 --> 02:35:02,362 啊 在美国 然后以及中亚 中亚 加拿大等北美地区 2212 02:35:02,922 --> 02:35:09,082 那么这个移动的变化呢 这个时间非常短 仅仅是一年的时间就把这个整个算力格局 2213 02:35:09,562 --> 02:35:11,682 然后变成了一个巨大的改 巨大的改观 2214 02:35:12,282 --> 02:35:16,482 啊 北美洲呢 大家知道这个几家比较大的上市公司啊 包括 2215 02:35:17,122 --> 02:35:23,522 呃 一些啊 对 包括一些金融公司所采购的算力和比特币都是来自于北美地区 2216 02:35:23,922 --> 02:35:30,642 像麦尔松啊 瑞特呀 啊 他们都是有一甚至在未来有可能有一g瓦以上的这个场地 2217 02:35:30,962 --> 02:35:35,562 啊 所以呢 美国确实成为了这个挖矿的核心核心地区 2218 02:35:36,082 --> 02:35:38,842 北美地区 那南美地区呢 主要是 2219 02:35:39,322 --> 02:35:46,162 啊 把我们自己在巴拉圭也进行了比较多的尝试 但巴拉圭最近开始因为合规涨了很多的税 2220 02:35:46,682 --> 02:35:54,322 啊 那巴拉圭 阿根廷 巴西 美内瑞拉这些南美地区呢 因为它的水利资源非常发达 我们也看到了非常多的 2221 02:35:54,962 --> 02:35:55,882 矿工去那边 2222 02:35:56,522 --> 02:36:02,122 啊 中亚地区呢 因为它火电能力很发达啊 大家知道在这个哈萨克斯坦其实是 2223 02:36:02,522 --> 02:36:09,122 因为离中国又很交界很近嘛 所以21年的时候有非常多的啊 中国矿工选择去了哈萨克斯坦和俄罗斯 2224 02:36:09,642 --> 02:36:17,042 啊 最后欧洲这个地方呢 因为欧洲欧洲的水电呢 其实是非常发达的 像我们早期去挪威和冰岛的时候 2225 02:36:17,322 --> 02:36:20,802 它的电费比现在的美北美还要价格还要低 2226 02:36:21,242 --> 02:36:25,842 而且像啊 以j j smiling这样的比较大的企业呢 一直在冰岛 2227 02:36:26,242 --> 02:36:33,842 和挪威去发展新的业务 还去做一些供暖的这些设备 所以他们是比较早就被开发的这个地区 2228 02:36:35,962 --> 02:36:39,282 啊 最后呢 呃 总结一下就是说 2229 02:36:39,722 --> 02:36:48,362 我觉得未来呢 比特币挖矿会逐渐进入到这个esg的这个方向 因为有越来越多的大资金和大企业开始去关注比特币挖矿 2230 02:36:48,842 --> 02:36:51,042 那在这个的前提的基础呢是 2231 02:36:51,482 --> 02:36:58,402 啊 esg 因为我们走到的这些地方刚刚提到不管是欧洲也好还是美国也好 其实都是 2232 02:36:58,762 --> 02:37:07,122 啊 非常在意esg啊 也非常在意说我们为这个社会提供了如何的贡献 我们消耗这些能源 我们带来什么样的价值 2233 02:37:07,522 --> 02:37:11,482 所以呢 因为这样的一个前提 所以我相信未来比特币的 2234 02:37:11,962 --> 02:37:13,882 呃 挖矿会逐渐啊 2235 02:37:14,402 --> 02:37:20,082 在越来越越来越进入更加esg更加可持续发展的方向 2236 02:37:20,522 --> 02:37:23,162 啊 因为它的商业模式越来越简单 2237 02:37:23,562 --> 02:37:27,882 啊 无非就是我们把我们拿我们利用了稳定的电力 2238 02:37:28,282 --> 02:37:35,002 然后我们提供更高采购更高效的miner 然后我们产生更低价的这个更绿色的比特币 2239 02:37:35,362 --> 02:37:43,042 所以呢 这样一个简单的商业模式呢 也推进了更多的企业开始去传统传统企业开始去关注到这个产业 2240 02:37:43,562 --> 02:37:46,082 那最后呢 就是啊 也是我们 2241 02:37:46,682 --> 02:37:50,602 也同时在布局的就是关于分布式挖矿和虚拟电站 2242 02:37:50,922 --> 02:37:56,962 就是我们会利用更加边角料的电力 更加低价的电力啊 和更加低价的能源 2243 02:37:57,442 --> 02:37:58,762 和更加小规模的 2244 02:37:59,322 --> 02:38:05,602 这种试验方式在全球各个分布式的地点和分布式场景下 2245 02:38:06,162 --> 02:38:14,402 进行一些进行比特币挖矿 然后我们去利用起来这些不被重视开始不被关注的这些能源吧 2246 02:38:15,322 --> 02:38:20,722 好 这个就是我整体的分享 谢谢大家 然后最后介绍一下 2247 02:38:21,722 --> 02:38:22,442 gdk capital 2248 02:38:23,002 --> 02:38:26,802 我们是从18年就开始专注在比特币挖矿这一个产业里面 2249 02:38:27,762 --> 02:38:28,922 我们有这个有 2250 02:38:29,642 --> 02:38:34,162 如果大家有关于对于比对挖矿感兴趣 比如说您比如说 2251 02:38:34,882 --> 02:38:39,762 企业有想要挖矿 您有能源 我们可以提供资金和配资 如果您有 2252 02:38:40,442 --> 02:38:42,282 自己的矿机 我们提供托管服务 2253 02:38:42,602 --> 02:38:46,522 然后如果有算力 我们也可以进行算力交易 2254 02:38:46,802 --> 02:38:52,882 所以我们为这个行业提供了非常多的基础设施 然后我们同时也有这个麦宁放的帮助大家一起去 2255 02:38:53,522 --> 02:39:00,882 建设比特币的比特币矿场和比特币算力的基础搭建吧 所以也期待跟大家合作 谢谢大家 2256 02:39:01,882 --> 02:39:05,082 谢谢 谢谢这期的精彩分享 谢谢 2257 02:39:06,004 --> 02:39:09,764 thank you daisy for the inspirational sharing thank you 2258 02:39:14,804 --> 02:39:18,724 so ladies and gentlemen moving on may i invite mr ethan vera 2259 02:39:19,364 --> 02:39:26,884 co of luxury mining to deliver a keynote on mining finance ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcoming ethan 2260 02:39:28,004 --> 02:39:28,884 round applause please 2261 02:39:33,124 --> 02:39:41,124 so 2262 02:39:48,084 --> 02:39:52,404 good afternoon everyone nice to meet you my name is ethan i'm one of the co-founders of luxor 2263 02:39:53,364 --> 02:39:58,004 thanks for sticking it through to the afternoon here i know people are probably pretty tired so i 2264 02:39:58,004 --> 02:40:05,924 appreciate it today i'm going to be talking about the active management of mining this is a topic 2265 02:40:05,924 --> 02:40:11,684 that's not often talked about a lot of people think mining is very passive you buy a machine you 2266 02:40:11,684 --> 02:40:17,604 plug it in wait three years and see what happens but really the best miners and the most sophisticated 2267 02:40:17,604 --> 02:40:22,724 miners out there are actively managing their portfolio and i wanted to walk through that process 2268 02:40:23,684 --> 02:40:30,724 so we're about one year out from the halving it's going to take block reward from 6.25 btc to down to 2269 02:40:30,724 --> 02:40:36,964 3.125 that is going to significantly reduce the amount of reward that miners have and heading 2270 02:40:36,964 --> 02:40:40,804 into that miners really need to prepare their operations to make sure they can survive the 2271 02:40:40,804 --> 02:40:47,684 halving the best miners will look to leverage every solution out there for them financial 2272 02:40:47,684 --> 02:40:53,044 services technology advancements and get the leg up on their competition and you'll start to see a 2273 02:40:53,044 --> 02:40:58,244 real differentiation in the best miners to the ones who aren't as good that's one unique part 2274 02:40:58,244 --> 02:41:04,324 about mining that's very unlike staking you could give 1 million dollars to company a 1 million 2275 02:41:04,324 --> 02:41:09,284 dollars to company b and they will have very different investment returns they'll make 2276 02:41:09,284 --> 02:41:16,244 different decisions on asic procurement deployment financial services even in some cases 2277 02:41:16,964 --> 02:41:22,644 even in some cases one company may become a billion dollar valuation while the other company 2278 02:41:22,644 --> 02:41:28,324 becomes bankrupt and so leveraging these tools is quite important there's dozens of tools that 2279 02:41:28,324 --> 02:41:34,324 miners can use out there but today i'm going to touch on three main ones hedging using hash price 2280 02:41:34,324 --> 02:41:42,644 derivatives firmware on the machines and then finally asic portfolio management so starting off 2281 02:41:42,724 --> 02:41:47,204 with hash rate derivatives this has been you know kind of a buzz word over the past few years and 2282 02:41:47,204 --> 02:41:53,844 it's really coming to fruition now taking a step back looking at a mining operation what miners 2283 02:41:53,844 --> 02:41:59,524 are doing is they're purchasing asics and running them what asics are in simplicity is a computer 2284 02:41:59,524 --> 02:42:04,644 and what those computers are producing is compute power something that we call hash rate in mining 2285 02:42:05,604 --> 02:42:10,964 hash rate has a value ascribed to it by the bitcoin network so the bitcoin network is willing 2286 02:42:10,964 --> 02:42:17,764 to pay miners to secure and validate the network and so at any point in time you can measure the 2287 02:42:17,764 --> 02:42:24,884 value of a unit of hash rate in bitcoin terms that's determined by the mining revenue blog 2288 02:42:24,884 --> 02:42:30,804 subsidy and transaction fees as well as your slice of the pie which is network hash rate 2289 02:42:30,804 --> 02:42:38,244 leading to the difficulty level and so that concept we call hash price how much bitcoin does each unit 2290 02:42:38,244 --> 02:42:43,924 of compute generate over a certain period of time as you can see here hash price is actually quite 2291 02:42:43,924 --> 02:42:52,724 volatile wti we wti oil we usually consider a very volatile commodity and the oil industry is 2292 02:42:52,724 --> 02:42:59,124 very volatile yet miners are facing it an even more volatile asset class historically there 2293 02:42:59,124 --> 02:43:06,244 haven't been a great way to push that volatility to a buyer and hedge risk but now there's a suite 2294 02:43:06,244 --> 02:43:10,644 of products that allow for that to happen and so miners are leveraging that to their ability 2295 02:43:12,404 --> 02:43:17,844 we've done a little bit of modeling on hash rate derivatives over the past few years to come up 2296 02:43:17,844 --> 02:43:24,644 with some key themes on the right hand side here you can see what hash rate derivatives look like 2297 02:43:24,644 --> 02:43:30,324 and what discount you can expect by locking in your hash price for a certain period of time 2298 02:43:30,964 --> 02:43:36,964 as you can see hash price trades in backwardation meaning that over time the longer the duration 2299 02:43:36,964 --> 02:43:42,964 the steeper the discount of hash price largely a reflection of network hash rate coming online 2300 02:43:42,964 --> 02:43:49,124 and mining economics dropping so taking that into account we've modeled out since 2020 2301 02:43:49,684 --> 02:43:54,964 which we think is a pretty good view as we went through the 2021 bull market as well as a 2302 02:43:54,964 --> 02:44:04,244 subsequent fall in 2022 as you can see in some of these charts here a hedge miner actually loses 2303 02:44:04,244 --> 02:44:10,004 money on the way up because they're locking in revenue at a lower cost while price is rising 2304 02:44:10,004 --> 02:44:16,084 but they save money on the way down and so over the long run actually the total cash flow 2305 02:44:16,084 --> 02:44:22,724 is very similar for a hedge miner versus an unhedged miner but the really key aspect to this 2306 02:44:22,724 --> 02:44:29,764 is that the variation of cash flow the volatility has been significantly reduced the unhedged miner 2307 02:44:29,764 --> 02:44:35,364 faces a standard deviation of cash flow of 33 percent whereas with a 12-month hedge it's only 12 2308 02:44:36,244 --> 02:44:42,484 what that means is that hedged miners can survive bear markets if mining economics drops they'll 2309 02:44:42,484 --> 02:44:51,204 survive at the same time having consistent and stable cash flows really changes the investment 2310 02:44:51,204 --> 02:44:56,804 profile of a mining operation and so capital providers are willing to lend money at a lower 2311 02:44:56,804 --> 02:45:05,764 rate to miners that are hedging and reducing that volatility. Moving on to technology number two 2312 02:45:05,764 --> 02:45:11,684 which is firmware and for us non-engineers in the room the simple way of thinking about this is 2313 02:45:11,684 --> 02:45:18,884 software downloaded onto the hardware device onto the ASIC so all ASICs come with firmware 2314 02:45:18,884 --> 02:45:26,644 bitmain micro bt ship stock firmware from the company and that firmware is needed for the cut 2315 02:45:26,644 --> 02:45:32,164 for the machine to run historically manufacturers haven't put a lot of work into the firmware they 2316 02:45:32,164 --> 02:45:38,164 focus on other areas of the machine and that's left a lot of features that miners wished were 2317 02:45:38,164 --> 02:45:44,804 there and so third-party companies have gone and built custom firmware that have added a lot of 2318 02:45:44,804 --> 02:45:51,364 optionality to miners to leverage. Talking to two of those options underclock and overclock 2319 02:45:52,644 --> 02:45:58,964 underclock represents lowering the hash rate of your mining machine but at the same time it lowers 2320 02:45:58,964 --> 02:46:05,524 the electricity usage even more which results in a higher efficiency for your machine for example 2321 02:46:05,524 --> 02:46:12,404 an s19j pro can go from around 30 joules per terahash down to 27 or 26 depending on operating 2322 02:46:12,404 --> 02:46:18,644 conditions and so miners use this to improve gross mining margin as you can see in the top 2323 02:46:18,644 --> 02:46:24,724 right here it improves the overall margin of mining. The other method that miners are using 2324 02:46:24,724 --> 02:46:29,124 is overclock which means that you're increasing the amount of hash rate that the machine is 2325 02:46:29,124 --> 02:46:37,124 delivering you can increase an s19j pro from 100 to 130 terahash but then also increase the power 2326 02:46:37,124 --> 02:46:43,204 usage as well. While it does decrease gross margin it significantly improves the return on 2327 02:46:43,204 --> 02:46:49,684 investment capital and so these two techniques can be used depending on market conditions 2328 02:46:49,684 --> 02:46:56,884 to improve the cash flow of mining operations. We've done some modeling as well looking at the 2329 02:46:56,884 --> 02:47:02,804 cash flow of an s19j pro over the past few years and looking at what would happen if you use custom 2330 02:47:02,804 --> 02:47:10,804 firmware. What we can see is that if you leverage a dynamic solution where in bull runs you are 2331 02:47:10,804 --> 02:47:16,244 overclocking your machine and in bear markets you're underclocking you significantly improve 2332 02:47:16,244 --> 02:47:24,644 the cash flow profile. For example for a medium opex miner mining in you know five six cent range 2333 02:47:24,644 --> 02:47:30,484 you can improve your cash flow for a single machine from under 15 000 to 17 000 by leveraging 2334 02:47:30,484 --> 02:47:36,404 custom firmware. Some of the most sophisticated miners are leveraging multiple data sources so 2335 02:47:36,404 --> 02:47:43,284 they're bringing in mining economics from the blockchain at the same time operational aspects 2336 02:47:43,284 --> 02:47:47,524 and then they're running scripts to automate a lot of this when they should be overclocking 2337 02:47:47,524 --> 02:47:57,524 when there should be underclocking. And finally last is ASIC portfolio management. As I mentioned 2338 02:47:57,524 --> 02:48:03,604 earlier a lot of people think mining simple buy a machine leave it but there's the times in which 2339 02:48:03,604 --> 02:48:08,884 it makes sense to own certain machines versus others. Over the past four years we've been 2340 02:48:08,884 --> 02:48:13,444 collecting a lot of data on ASIC prices and so fortunately it's allowed us to do a lot of 2341 02:48:13,444 --> 02:48:21,364 interesting analysis into ASICs as well as we have this for free all this public data 2342 02:48:21,364 --> 02:48:27,764 on hashrateindex.com. One of the interesting analysis is we look at is the price of machines 2343 02:48:27,764 --> 02:48:32,324 relative to the price of bitcoin something that we describe as the beta to bitcoin. 2344 02:48:32,964 --> 02:48:38,164 The key analysis here is that new generation machines have a low beta to the price of 2345 02:48:38,164 --> 02:48:44,404 bitcoin whereas old generation machines have a very high beta to bitcoin. In practicality 2346 02:48:44,404 --> 02:48:52,084 this works because in falling markets where mining economics are dropping a flight to 2347 02:48:52,084 --> 02:48:59,284 efficiency happens where people rush to the most efficient machines like the s19xp because it is 2348 02:48:59,284 --> 02:49:05,684 the furthest away from break-even levels and it's better in low economic environments and so there's 2349 02:49:05,684 --> 02:49:12,084 some stability in the price of these very highly efficient machines. On the flip side of that the 2350 02:49:12,084 --> 02:49:19,844 old gen so in the depths of a bear market old generation machines trade almost like paperweights 2351 02:49:19,844 --> 02:49:26,964 and s9 was basically free in 2020. You could buy it for essentially the value of recycling it maybe 2352 02:49:26,964 --> 02:49:33,844 a few dollars but when mining economics improved like we saw in 2021 the value of these machines 2353 02:49:33,844 --> 02:49:40,724 increased significantly it went from effectively zero to 500 within a few months and so owning 2354 02:49:40,724 --> 02:49:47,364 different generations of machines can allow you to capitalize on different areas of the market cycle. 2355 02:49:49,844 --> 02:49:55,604 This analysis isn't a one-size-fit-all so not every miner can use the exact same strategy 2356 02:49:56,724 --> 02:50:00,404 it really depends on the operating costs and the profile of each miner. 2357 02:50:01,044 --> 02:50:07,044 If a miner has very high cost of power in the seven to nine cent range then they have limited 2358 02:50:07,044 --> 02:50:12,404 flexibility in how low they can go in terms of efficiency tiers because if they go too low they'll 2359 02:50:12,404 --> 02:50:17,924 be losing money and so they have to trade within a tight range of the highest efficiency machines 2360 02:50:19,044 --> 02:50:24,964 whereas if you have low cost of operations you know five cent kilowatt hour or lower it allows 2361 02:50:24,964 --> 02:50:31,444 for more flexibility to drop down the efficiencies and allow for more flexibility there. 2362 02:50:32,164 --> 02:50:39,924 So we did a lot of modeling this out as well this idea of ASIC portfolio management 2363 02:50:39,924 --> 02:50:46,484 to see what the difference would be. I briefly touched on this earlier but the idea is that 2364 02:50:46,484 --> 02:50:52,484 during bear markets near the depths of the bear markets you're consolidating on lower efficiency 2365 02:50:52,484 --> 02:50:58,804 machines and then in the top of the bull run you're consolidating on higher efficiency machines 2366 02:50:58,804 --> 02:51:04,004 and turning your fleet more efficient and you want to be trading your ASICs as such and so an 2367 02:51:04,004 --> 02:51:08,884 example of this that we took is in the bottom right here where at the beginning you're running 2368 02:51:08,884 --> 02:51:14,244 a top-of-the-line efficient machine at the depths of the bear market at the end of 2020 2369 02:51:14,244 --> 02:51:19,764 you're consolidating into lower efficiency tiers and then you're trading back into the high 2370 02:51:19,764 --> 02:51:26,804 efficiency tiers near the top of the the bull run and you can see that the ASICs are 2371 02:51:26,804 --> 02:51:33,204 the bull run and you can see a difference in cash flow here of almost two thousand dollars 2372 02:51:33,204 --> 02:51:39,764 based on that ASIC portfolio management. Now in the real world it's not as easy as you know 2373 02:51:40,564 --> 02:51:47,284 trading on paper there's physical cost to doing this you have to unplug the machine box it up 2374 02:51:47,284 --> 02:51:53,284 ship it out get a new machine plug it in but many times the cash flow difference justifies 2375 02:51:53,284 --> 02:51:58,884 all of that work and so we see a lot of sophisticated miners and some of the top 2376 02:51:58,884 --> 02:52:04,884 miners that we work with practicing this ASIC management portfolio a topic not often talked about 2377 02:52:07,844 --> 02:52:11,844 so today we talked through three different strategies hedging hash price 2378 02:52:12,804 --> 02:52:18,324 firmware and ASIC portfolio management again there's dozens of tools out there so really 2379 02:52:18,324 --> 02:52:24,804 I just selected three of many that you can layer in once you start layering these strategies on top 2380 02:52:24,804 --> 02:52:32,244 of each other they actually accumulate in terms of their effect and compound on each other for 2381 02:52:32,244 --> 02:52:38,724 starker differences in cash flow and so when you leverage all three strategies at once 2382 02:52:38,724 --> 02:52:45,124 on the bottom here you can see there's a huge divergence in cash flow for an actively managed 2383 02:52:45,124 --> 02:52:52,404 miner to a passively managed miner and so a lot of miners are kind of layering this on finding ways 2384 02:52:52,404 --> 02:52:57,284 to get more cash flow and for them that's very critical especially given that the halving is 2385 02:52:57,284 --> 02:53:01,684 coming up mining rewards are decreasing and they need to find every way to get profitable 2386 02:53:05,604 --> 02:53:10,644 so I appreciate everyone listening I put my contact information here and I'll probably 2387 02:53:10,644 --> 02:53:17,364 hang around after the stage after a bit again I'm the co-founder of Luxor we run mining software 2388 02:53:17,364 --> 02:53:23,364 financial services so we operate everything from mining pools ASIC trading desk derivatives 2389 02:53:23,364 --> 02:53:29,524 firmware we're based in Seattle in the United States but we have team members across all major 2390 02:53:29,524 --> 02:53:37,204 hubs of mining and you can find me and the company at the following website as well as online 2391 02:53:37,764 --> 02:53:41,204 over email and telegram so thank you so much 2392 02:53:41,204 --> 02:53:43,364 appreciate and I hope everybody has a good rest of the conference 2393 02:53:49,524 --> 02:53:55,364 thank you Ethan for the insightful speech and if you have any questions for mining finance do 2394 02:53:55,364 --> 02:54:03,204 feel free to reach out to Ethan. A gentle reminder for all of you so throughout the 2395 02:54:03,204 --> 02:54:09,364 festival you may collect stamps from the areas across the exhibition hall and you may refer to 2396 02:54:09,364 --> 02:54:17,204 the logos page for details and with a complete collection of the stamps in one area you may now 2397 02:54:17,204 --> 02:54:23,524 you may can you may proceed to the information desk to redeem a corresponding gift and each 2398 02:54:23,524 --> 02:54:30,164 visitor may collect once a day and every gift is limited to 500 pieces and will be given out 2399 02:54:30,164 --> 02:54:36,724 on a first come first served basis and also simultaneous interpretation is provided during 2400 02:54:36,724 --> 02:54:43,684 all sessions you can scan the qr code on the brochure or on the at some areas at the entrance 2401 02:54:44,244 --> 02:54:48,564 and you can then listen to the simultaneous interpretation through the mobile phone 2402 02:54:53,044 --> 02:54:58,404 so it has been an information packed and inspiring afternoon session and now may I invite 2403 02:54:58,404 --> 02:55:05,684 the following guest speakers on stage for a round table on the topic of halving bitcoin can this be 2404 02:55:05,684 --> 02:55:12,004 the starting point for the next bull market ladies and gentlemen we now invite Colin Wu founder of 2405 02:55:12,004 --> 02:55:18,644 Wu blockchains and discuss fish co-founders and ceo of Kobo so ladies and gentlemen let's give 2406 02:55:18,644 --> 02:55:22,404 a round applause to the speakers in the following session 2407 02:55:49,444 --> 02:55:58,004 today we are using this普通话交流对如果有一些嘉宾他这个呃比较擅长的是广东话或者英文的话那么可能 2408 02:55:58,804 --> 02:56:10,004 需要呃要一下同声传译或者什么啊呃这个神鱼这个这个虽然这个这个行业里的人大家都很熟悉了啊但是 2409 02:56:10,004 --> 02:56:16,084 可能在场有一些圈外的观众就要不就麻烦您先自我再简单介绍一下 2410 02:56:17,044 --> 02:56:24,724 嗯大家好我叫沈宇然后呢算是一个老韭菜和老矿工了那我在 2411 02:56:26,084 --> 02:56:30,724 2011年的时候吧正式的参加参与了整个 2412 02:56:30,724 --> 02:56:36,164 呃中国的区块链早期的建设在13年的时候呢推出了第一 2413 02:56:36,164 --> 02:56:44,644 第一个中文的世界的矿池F2不语池也一度曾成为了全球最大的比特币以太坊矿池 2414 02:56:45,284 --> 02:56:48,404 我们峰值的时候有超过三分之一的比特币的算力 2415 02:56:49,204 --> 02:56:57,004 呃有一个小插曲吧我们也是世界上唯一一个团队对比特币进行过一次成功的双发攻击的团队 2416 02:56:57,804 --> 02:57:03,284 然后到了2017年之后呢我们发现区块链开始有了大量的应用但是 2417 02:57:03,964 --> 02:57:09,724 呃围绕着安全和私药管理这里面暴露出了非常多的风险敞口所以作为一个 2418 02:57:10,444 --> 02:57:13,244 比较擅长做技术设施的公司吧我们就 2419 02:57:13,804 --> 02:57:18,204 呃成立了科波这样一家专门专注于私药管理及其 2420 02:57:18,684 --> 02:57:24,204 衍生风险的家公司所以这家公司大概目前做六年多的时间主要围绕着 2421 02:57:24,804 --> 02:57:27,764 呃钱包安全底层的资产的托管从 2422 02:57:28,724 --> 02:57:35,404 全中心化啊半中心化的NPC血管到最呃完全的去中心化的链上智能合约 2423 02:57:35,844 --> 02:57:38,684 多千的产品形态都有设立ok 2424 02:57:40,324 --> 02:57:44,244 好的呃这个我也简单介绍一下我们吧对大家如果 2425 02:57:44,924 --> 02:57:52,204 阅读新闻的话可以在推特或者是telegram或者是公众号等平台搜索我们的这个 2426 02:57:53,084 --> 02:57:54,884 无说或者无说区块链对 2427 02:57:55,524 --> 02:57:59,404 然后其实可能如果有神鱼他其实是这个 2428 02:58:00,004 --> 02:58:04,604 呃crypto这个中文圈这个最乐于分享的一个人所以其实 2429 02:58:05,084 --> 02:58:09,444 呃很多信息他也都曾经在各种各样的采访或者自己的文章中 2430 02:58:10,084 --> 02:58:10,284 呃 2431 02:58:11,044 --> 02:58:14,884 发表过所以大家其实也可以去网上搜索一些他过去的观点 2432 02:58:15,404 --> 02:58:19,124 啊其实某种程度来说他应该是这个咱们这个华语行业中 2433 02:58:19,604 --> 02:58:24,044 呃最乐于向大家分享的一位这个早期早期大佬啊 2434 02:58:24,564 --> 02:58:27,164 这个所以我们回到这个最早期就是其实这个 2435 02:58:27,684 --> 02:58:29,844 呃币圈呢他可以分成几个阶段 2436 02:58:30,284 --> 02:58:35,044 呃最早期的我理解应该就是这个2015年加入的这个行业的人 2437 02:58:35,484 --> 02:58:38,964 而那一批行业的人尤其在中国可能是主要以矿工为主 2438 02:58:39,484 --> 02:58:42,284 啊那么下面呃就想请神鱼分享一下这个 2439 02:58:42,684 --> 02:58:46,044 呃你刚进入行业的时候是一个什么样的契机以及 2440 02:58:46,604 --> 02:58:50,324 呃那个时候这个这个圈子的氛围啊是什么样的一个氛围 2441 02:58:50,804 --> 02:58:55,324 其实很多早期的一些文章非常有意思说是这个比如大家都在一个qq群里面 2442 02:58:55,684 --> 02:58:57,444 是吧这个也是一些很有意思的一些 2443 02:58:57,884 --> 02:59:01,164 意识大家其实有的可以去搜索一些文章包括有一些 2444 02:59:01,724 --> 02:59:07,564 我记得神鱼还接受过一些视频采访是吧这都可以看对就可能再麻烦你再给大家分享分享啊 2445 02:59:08,204 --> 02:59:15,044 呃我其实进入整个圈子其实是一个很偶然的因素我当时在上 2446 02:59:15,884 --> 02:59:23,124 大学然后呢在一个很无聊的下午在图书馆看书上网的过程中突然看到了两次 2447 02:59:23,684 --> 02:59:27,964 关于比特币的新闻可能是比特币突破一美金的这个新闻 2448 02:59:28,604 --> 02:59:31,684 然后呢我就很好奇去search了一下什么是bitcoin 2449 02:59:32,164 --> 02:59:34,524 然后就发现了中本聪的这篇白皮书 2450 02:59:35,124 --> 02:59:38,284 然后读完这篇白皮书之后呢就非常非常的震撼 2451 02:59:38,884 --> 02:59:43,524 然后接下来就花了三个月的时间基本上除了在床上躺着 2452 02:59:44,164 --> 02:59:49,444 呃看这些比特空的一些论坛一些社区的讨论 2453 02:59:49,924 --> 02:59:55,244 然后基本上没下床包括吃的都是宿舍的同学帮我带回来的 2454 02:59:55,804 --> 03:00:04,644 然后呢经过了三个多月的论坛的逛完之后呢发现整个当时的亏不得世界还是一群加密极客 2455 03:00:05,244 --> 03:00:12,004 大家都有各种各样的天马行空的idea在当时看起来可能不太能行但是 2456 03:00:12,844 --> 03:00:15,764 但是底层的逻辑好像又似乎符合逻辑 2457 03:00:16,284 --> 03:00:19,084 就加密货币他最核心的问题是说把 2458 03:00:19,684 --> 03:00:25,124 货币怎么通过把它数字化之后在全球自由的去流转同时呢又不被 2459 03:00:26,204 --> 03:00:32,364 双花的这件事情他把这个事情虽然都是一些很成熟的技术但是他把组合的非常的好 2460 03:00:33,164 --> 03:00:38,244 啊所以作为一个工科生就被这些技术讨论深深的吸引 2461 03:00:38,724 --> 03:00:46,444 所以后来我基本上大学后面就没有好好上学了就基本上在比特币的社区里面做一些早期的见识和探索 2462 03:00:46,764 --> 03:00:52,324 所以最早呢我们是把国外的一些技术类的文章翻译到中国然后 2463 03:00:52,964 --> 03:00:56,044 也交到了非常多的国内的一些朋友 2464 03:00:56,564 --> 03:01:04,604 所以最早呢大家国内社区呢基本上是围绕着qq群作为一种交流手段啊比如说大家可能还能看到的一些 2465 03:01:05,324 --> 03:01:11,844 啊群比如说听到的一些群吧比如说和平饭店然后还有一些很神秘的群组啊当时大概 2466 03:01:12,484 --> 03:01:16,124 在我的印象中可能总共有四五万人这样的一个群体 2467 03:01:16,644 --> 03:01:22,204 一方面是一帮加密极客另一方面呢是说是很多国内很 2468 03:01:23,524 --> 03:01:28,964 很巧合拥有了当时拥有了大量显卡资源的一帮人那帮人最早是做 2469 03:01:29,764 --> 03:01:33,244 诺基亚手机水货手机的那个破解的但是突然 2470 03:01:33,724 --> 03:01:36,564 爱风火了这帮水货手机没有了市场 2471 03:01:37,084 --> 03:01:43,004 所以他们手里有大量的前置显卡资源就也刚好发现了比特币就切进来就用显卡挖矿 2472 03:01:43,484 --> 03:01:47,084 这基本上当时在2011年到13年的这个阶段 2473 03:01:47,484 --> 03:01:52,604 基本上中国的加密生态就是这两帮人一帮是充满着各种理想的 2474 03:01:53,324 --> 03:01:57,244 加密朋克一帮是这种脚踏实地的拿着显卡的 2475 03:01:57,924 --> 03:01:59,324 突突挖矿的这帮矿工 2476 03:02:00,124 --> 03:02:06,684 然后所以很幸运的是中国在很早的时候就就就切中了整个加密赛道里面非常核心的 2477 03:02:08,044 --> 03:02:14,684 挖矿的这个领域因为当时在整个加密生态里面其实能做的事情不多只有两件事情交易和挖矿 2478 03:02:15,164 --> 03:02:17,724 到了13年之后呢就开始涌现出了很多 2479 03:02:18,444 --> 03:02:23,324 华人背景的交易所因为大家经历了在外八的世界里经历了一轮 2480 03:02:23,924 --> 03:02:28,484 这种团购大战之后呢一些公司就转转转航到了 2481 03:02:29,044 --> 03:02:36,604 亏不得加密的交易所的赛道也成为了现在大家可能很多耳熟能详的一些加密交易所的一些前身 2482 03:02:37,724 --> 03:02:39,524 所以当时基本上是这样的一个状态 2483 03:02:39,884 --> 03:02:44,364 所以大家都每天都在讨论各种各样很兴奋的idea和想法 2484 03:02:44,884 --> 03:02:50,004 但是十年多过去了这些很多的想法idea其实现在已经变成了现实 2485 03:02:50,364 --> 03:02:57,044 比如当时讨论的稳定币的想法也早期的去中心化交易所的一些idea其实现在都纷纷的实现了 2486 03:02:57,684 --> 03:03:05,524 啊所以所以我觉得呢站在现在去回看过去其实当时看起来很多不可思议的一些创新一些idea 2487 03:03:06,044 --> 03:03:10,044 都能够实现那么今天我们已经到了一个更好的阶段 2488 03:03:10,884 --> 03:03:16,444 已经有了大量的链上的基础设施和应用所以我觉得未来越来越清晰了ok 2489 03:03:18,004 --> 03:03:25,204 谢谢谢谢神鱼分享了一些这个最早期的这个状态包括他提到这个和平饭店的qq群 2490 03:03:25,804 --> 03:03:29,764 大家有兴趣啊可以去这个百度上搜索一下啊或者谷歌 2491 03:03:30,524 --> 03:03:32,364 啊关于这个早期的这个 2492 03:03:33,324 --> 03:03:39,524 中国的这个比特币的世界啊是社区是怎么形成的其实有非常多有意思的事情啊 2493 03:03:40,124 --> 03:03:42,684 也有很多视频的采访包括大家熟悉的 2494 03:03:43,604 --> 03:03:45,084 宝二爷啊这个 2495 03:03:46,204 --> 03:03:52,884 行长啊这个啊吴季寒啊等等都可以在这个这个搜索引擎中自己看到非常多的信息 2496 03:03:53,404 --> 03:03:56,004 对我下一个想跟神鱼聊一聊的就是其实 2497 03:03:56,684 --> 03:04:02,484 这个行业我感觉2017年啊是一个终身带就是在2017年因为迎来了这个行业的 2498 03:04:03,204 --> 03:04:10,204 最大的一个牛市其实现在的很多的知名的人士都是在那个时候变得更加的耀眼比如像 2499 03:04:10,884 --> 03:04:17,284 啊现在这几天比较火的这个孙哥是吧然后比如像c z啊赵长鹏包括 2500 03:04:18,284 --> 03:04:19,764 呃很多的这个 2501 03:04:20,404 --> 03:04:25,164 中国相关的一些供链啊不管是什么neo啊还是量子链啊这个 2502 03:04:25,804 --> 03:04:30,124 等等就你怎么但是但是也有很多人回过头来觉得这个2017年 2503 03:04:31,084 --> 03:04:34,644 更多的只是充满着ico的各种乱象 2504 03:04:35,164 --> 03:04:38,564 对从这个我们现在回顾看2017年你觉得 2505 03:04:39,204 --> 03:04:41,844 那个时代或者说那个时候的行业的意义 2506 03:04:42,364 --> 03:04:47,564 呃有什么值得想回顾啊或者值得分享的东西或者你印象比较深刻的 2507 03:04:48,684 --> 03:04:52,604 呃2017年这一波ico的狂潮呢其实 2508 03:04:53,604 --> 03:04:59,164 现在今天回看我觉得有一个非常重大的意义其实是可能大家被大家忽略的 2509 03:04:59,524 --> 03:05:05,204 虽然在2017年有了非常非常多的ico的泡沫涌现了很多的可能投机啊 2510 03:05:05,764 --> 03:05:08,684 然后这种甚至直接的是诈骗类的项目 2511 03:05:09,084 --> 03:05:15,484 但是我们站到2020年2021年来回看的话其实他给以太坊的生态上带来了 2512 03:05:15,924 --> 03:05:18,084 大量的链上的资产品类 2513 03:05:18,684 --> 03:05:24,804 这是这也是我们过去两年defi能够爆发的一个直接推动因素因为资产足够的多了 2514 03:05:25,404 --> 03:05:31,724 有不完不完全的数据统计啊可能在2017年的一年里面就有二三十万个ico项目的诞生 2515 03:05:32,324 --> 03:05:36,564 那如果我们类比ico和ipo来看那在现实世界里面 2516 03:05:37,044 --> 03:05:43,004 不可想象有这么大量的ipo的发生甚至可能十年都不可能有这么大的数量级 2517 03:05:43,564 --> 03:05:47,404 所以虽然可能在呃在当时的过程中有大量的泡沫 2518 03:05:47,924 --> 03:05:54,564 大量的诈骗的事件层出不穷但是经过一轮行业周期的沉淀好的项目好的协议 2519 03:05:55,044 --> 03:06:01,324 依然存活下来了并且在持续的不断的迭代在这个废墟中又涌现出来了新的创新 2520 03:06:01,724 --> 03:06:08,804 所以整个行业基本上就是这样一轮又一轮的泡沫泡沫破灭重建的过程 2521 03:06:09,364 --> 03:06:11,764 它典型的是说底层是有一套 2522 03:06:12,564 --> 03:06:18,004 基础设施以区块链底层的性能和一些一些底层的攻略的基础设施 2523 03:06:18,484 --> 03:06:23,004 和应用层两个场景去互相驱动的一个过程 2524 03:06:23,604 --> 03:06:27,164 那一旦有了大量的泡沫然后带来了大量的应用 2525 03:06:27,804 --> 03:06:33,004 这种爆发就会倒逼底层的区块链的基础设施去完善自己 2526 03:06:33,564 --> 03:06:39,244 但是到了一个泡沫的顶点发现这个区块链底层的基础设施是不能去支撑整个 2527 03:06:39,844 --> 03:06:42,644 应用的进步的发展这时候泡沫就破灭了 2528 03:06:43,004 --> 03:06:47,524 然后就进入了一个沉淀期这时候就有非常多的各种各样的 2529 03:06:47,884 --> 03:06:54,284 即刻他们就会去迭代底层的基础设施去为未来下一次的爆发做好基础设施的铺垫 2530 03:06:54,804 --> 03:06:59,564 所以这也是这个行业这么快持续不断迭代的内在的驱动因素 2531 03:06:59,964 --> 03:07:02,004 所以我觉得泡沫是好事情 2532 03:07:02,684 --> 03:07:07,724 只是说在泡沫中的每一个的个体我们需要保持一定的冷静 2533 03:07:08,364 --> 03:07:13,324 需要做符合逻辑的事情但长远来看从行业周期来看这是个好事情 2534 03:07:13,604 --> 03:07:19,284 对神鱼这个确实也是非常有道理 2535 03:07:19,284 --> 03:07:24,324 对就是因为我们可能普通的人可能会觉得2017年是一个充满着泡沫 2536 03:07:24,324 --> 03:07:27,884 而且可能整个行业ICO非常混乱的一个状态 2537 03:07:28,204 --> 03:07:32,564 但是现在来看其实很多在2020年或者2021年涌现的项目 2538 03:07:32,804 --> 03:07:35,124 他们其实也是17年18年开始做的 2539 03:07:35,124 --> 03:07:42,204 不管是这个Uniswap还是现在的一些更多的DeFi的相关的协议 2540 03:07:42,324 --> 03:07:46,204 以及一些供链像波卡或者是Firecoin 2541 03:07:46,204 --> 03:07:47,884 他们也都是在那个时候开始做 2542 03:07:48,444 --> 03:07:50,484 因为它本身的这种协议层面 2543 03:07:50,484 --> 03:07:54,164 它可能并不像一些中心化的机构那么高效 2544 03:07:54,164 --> 03:07:58,684 它可能还是需要一段的时间来把这个事情才能够做得更好 2545 03:07:59,044 --> 03:08:03,684 所以其实很多在这个2017年他们投了很多项目 2546 03:08:03,684 --> 03:08:08,404 但是到了2020年2021年出现的千倍万倍比 2547 03:08:08,444 --> 03:08:09,964 他们回头一看会发现 2548 03:08:09,964 --> 03:08:15,004 原来其实是在17 18年投的一些所谓的优质项目 2549 03:08:15,004 --> 03:08:17,444 对所以您刚才也提到了DeFi 2550 03:08:17,444 --> 03:08:21,484 对就是2020年2020年2021年一个最重要的事情 2551 03:08:21,484 --> 03:08:23,044 可能就是这个DeFi的兴起 2552 03:08:23,324 --> 03:08:23,524 对 2553 03:08:23,902 --> 03:08:31,902 包括您自己这个 当时也是这个最有名的一个这个矿工 这个DeFi矿工 从一个实体的矿工到了一个DeFi的矿工 2554 03:08:31,902 --> 03:08:37,902 您具体这个接触 或者说对DeFi产生浓厚兴趣的时候 大概是一个什么阶段 2555 03:08:37,902 --> 03:08:47,902 然后包括也经过了这么DeFi之下 经过了几年的沉淀 对你对这个DeFi这个行业有一些什么新的看法了没有 2556 03:08:48,902 --> 03:08:59,902 OK 其实我个人接触DeFi 其实是在2018年2019年的那一个牛市的末尾 或者熊市的开始 2557 03:08:59,902 --> 03:09:06,902 其实开始有了一些DeFi协议的涌现 在UIS上 在以太坊上有一些早期的协议 2558 03:09:06,902 --> 03:09:11,902 只是说当时的DeFi没有 没能大规模的用起来 缺乏一些驱动的因素 2559 03:09:11,902 --> 03:09:19,902 所以到了 所以我在上面花了一些时间 然后花了一些资产 在上面探索 发现亏了都差不多了 2560 03:09:19,902 --> 03:09:26,902 所以后来就没有继续了 到了2020年 2021年开始 然后整个DeFi明显出现了一个拐点 2561 03:09:26,902 --> 03:09:31,902 出现了以康胖为代表的流动性激励的一个新的热潮 2562 03:09:31,902 --> 03:09:36,902 所以当时这个拐点来临的时候 我有一个比较好的习惯 是说我会在 2563 03:09:37,902 --> 03:09:44,902 呃 行业可能各种试错的前沿方向上面 我愿意去花一些时间 精力和一些成本去试错 2564 03:09:44,902 --> 03:09:51,902 然后去建立一个观察 然后同时又给他定一个指标 如果这个指标拐点到来的时候 2565 03:09:51,902 --> 03:09:59,902 我就再去花点时间和精力和成本去调进一步的研究 到了2020年21年的时候 2566 03:09:59,902 --> 03:10:06,902 我发现开始出现了一些DeFi数据上的改良和用户的涌入的时候 我又花了点时间 2567 03:10:06,902 --> 03:10:12,902 我当时去看了一两三天之后 我发现这个市场完全不一样了 2568 03:10:12,902 --> 03:10:18,902 他好像自发的成长起来了 后来我就开始投入了大量的精力 2569 03:10:18,902 --> 03:10:24,902 然后放了大量的资产进去 在DeFi里面做一系列的操作 2570 03:10:24,902 --> 03:10:29,902 包括呼吁身边的朋友 然后群里的人 大家来看一看 2571 03:10:29,902 --> 03:10:34,902 DeFi其实已经发生了一个质变 所以也比较幸运吧 2572 03:10:34,902 --> 03:10:41,902 抓住了DeFi的这一波 做好了一个矿工的一个过渡吧 2573 03:10:41,902 --> 03:10:48,902 从原本的物理世界的manner变成了链上DeFi的一个玩家 2574 03:10:48,902 --> 03:10:52,902 这样的话可能对现实世界的制约就更少一点了 2575 03:10:52,902 --> 03:10:56,902 因为过去很长一段时间都苦哈哈的找电 挖矿 2576 03:10:56,902 --> 03:10:58,902 跟各种各样的物理世界打交道 2577 03:10:58,902 --> 03:11:04,902 然后这样其实对于一个偏技术向的同学 其实压力还是蛮大的 2578 03:11:04,902 --> 03:11:10,902 发现DeFi之后发现 OK 我们在整个行业积累了非常多的早期的技术积累 2579 03:11:10,902 --> 03:11:15,902 有非常多的优势 然后我们对私药的管理 对底层安全的极致的追求 2580 03:11:15,902 --> 03:11:19,902 在这个链上的世界里面更好的能发挥出来 2581 03:11:19,902 --> 03:11:22,902 所以我们后面一路就在DeFi里面去build各种各样的 2582 03:11:22,902 --> 03:11:28,902 我们内部用的一些基础设施 然后去完善我们的这些效率 2583 03:11:28,902 --> 03:11:33,902 那近期我们也会把这些我们内部的一些自用的工具 2584 03:11:33,902 --> 03:11:38,902 逐步的开放出来给大家来使用 也欢迎大家来体验 2585 03:11:38,902 --> 03:11:44,902 好的 我们继续沿着历史往下说 2586 03:11:44,902 --> 03:11:48,902 2020年是一个DeFi之下 然后到了2021年 2587 03:11:48,902 --> 03:11:52,902 其实又进入到了一个NFT爆发的一个时代 2588 03:11:52,902 --> 03:11:57,902 围绕着NFT 还有各种小图片 还有游戏 2589 03:11:57,902 --> 03:12:02,902 其实某种程度上 现在它的势头应该更胜过于DeFi 2590 03:12:02,902 --> 03:12:07,902 因为DeFi可能面临一些监管 或者是各方面的因素 2591 03:12:07,902 --> 03:12:11,902 尤其是一些Terror这种爆雷以后会存在一些问题 2592 03:12:11,902 --> 03:12:15,902 但是NFT它似乎跟主流的结合更加的清晰 2593 03:12:15,902 --> 03:12:20,902 对 其实很有意思 这其实是一个圈内人没有想到的 2594 03:12:20,902 --> 03:12:25,902 我记得这个Vitalik说过 他觉得他最让他惊讶的 2595 03:12:25,902 --> 03:12:28,902 就是这个NFT的爆发 他其实根本没有想到说 2596 03:12:28,902 --> 03:12:32,902 NFT会有一个这么大的爆发 尤其是完成了 2597 03:12:32,902 --> 03:12:36,902 对于这种数字收藏品的确权交易流转 2598 03:12:36,902 --> 03:12:40,902 很切实的改变了这样的一个刚需的需求 2599 03:12:41,902 --> 03:12:45,902 神宇他其实有一个特点 就是他什么都爱玩 2600 03:12:45,902 --> 03:12:50,902 基本没有他不玩的 NFT他也是玩的非常多 2601 03:12:50,902 --> 03:12:55,902 从现在的角度来看 你觉得NFT的前景是不是 2602 03:12:55,902 --> 03:13:00,902 怎么说 一个非常好的前景 而且也很多创业者 2603 03:13:00,902 --> 03:13:04,902 我觉得在场可能也有不少 对于这种NFT的创业者 2604 03:13:04,902 --> 03:13:07,902 你有一些什么自己的想法 或者建议没有 2605 03:13:07,902 --> 03:13:11,902 NFT虽然我个人玩的比较多 亏的也比较多 2606 03:13:11,902 --> 03:13:14,902 所以基本上在NFT界 我是一个著名的繁殖 2607 03:13:14,902 --> 03:13:18,902 在NFT市场 我觉得其实是一个很有趣 2608 03:13:18,902 --> 03:13:23,902 很好玩的一个市场 他有一个非常大的特点 2609 03:13:23,902 --> 03:13:28,902 是说他相对的很分散化 和区块链的其他的不太一样 2610 03:13:28,902 --> 03:13:31,902 像DeFi他头部效应非常的强 2611 03:13:31,902 --> 03:13:35,902 然后他他链上都是承载着高价值的交易 2612 03:13:35,902 --> 03:13:38,902 因为区块链的空间毕竟很宝贵 2613 03:13:38,902 --> 03:13:41,902 但NFT市场不太一样的点是说 OK 2614 03:13:41,902 --> 03:13:46,902 有大量的割裂的社群 每个社群有自己原生的特质和文化特征 2615 03:13:46,902 --> 03:13:51,902 所以在这样的一个社群里面 你很容易找到身份认同感 2616 03:13:51,902 --> 03:13:56,902 所以在2021年 NFT刚开始涌现的时候 2617 03:13:56,902 --> 03:13:59,902 我们有很多朋友半夜三五点睡不着觉 2618 03:13:59,902 --> 03:14:02,902 很兴奋打电话跟我们聊NFT 2619 03:14:02,902 --> 03:14:06,902 这个协议多么多么的好 多么多么的切中人心 2620 03:14:06,902 --> 03:14:10,902 然后有什么样的文化价值 一聊就聊一个通宵 2621 03:14:10,902 --> 03:14:13,902 所以我们看到了有非常多的这样的 2622 03:14:13,902 --> 03:14:17,902 能够切合各种各样文化群体的 2623 03:14:17,902 --> 03:14:22,902 大家的一些内心的情感需求的一些价值开始涌现 2624 03:14:22,902 --> 03:14:24,902 包括一些社交资本等价值 2625 03:14:24,902 --> 03:14:28,902 所以从这个维度来讲 NFT它的成功和存在 2626 03:14:28,902 --> 03:14:30,902 是有一定的价值和意义的 2627 03:14:31,902 --> 03:14:36,902 另外一个角度来讲 其实对广大的年轻的小朋友来讲 2628 03:14:36,902 --> 03:14:39,902 其实NFT整个领域相对Crypto的世界里面 2629 03:14:39,902 --> 03:14:41,902 它的进入的门槛很低 2630 03:14:41,902 --> 03:14:44,902 它不需要懂很多密码学的知识 2631 03:14:44,902 --> 03:14:47,902 它也不需要有大量的资金 2632 03:14:47,902 --> 03:14:50,902 它只要有一定的艺术鉴赏能力 2633 03:14:50,902 --> 03:14:52,902 是有一定的人文精神 2634 03:14:52,902 --> 03:14:56,902 其实大家看到的是不一样的一些场景和实验 2635 03:14:56,902 --> 03:15:01,902 所以让NFT世界里面尤其是00后进来了非常多的人 2636 03:15:01,902 --> 03:15:05,902 并且NFT在早期阶段因为大家为了做IP 2637 03:15:05,902 --> 03:15:08,902 为了打造一个社群 2638 03:15:08,902 --> 03:15:12,902 所以基本上的进入的成本也都是非常的低廉的 2639 03:15:12,902 --> 03:15:14,902 我们也看到了NFT市场里面 2640 03:15:14,902 --> 03:15:17,902 充斥着大量的这种一夜暴富的这种故事 2641 03:15:17,902 --> 03:15:22,902 所以也带来了很多的这种新鲜的血液 2642 03:15:22,902 --> 03:15:24,902 所以现在站在现在来看 2643 03:15:24,902 --> 03:15:27,902 NFT可能经历了NFT的周期可能很短 2644 03:15:27,902 --> 03:15:31,902 我们感觉可能也就是一个三个月左右的情绪周期 2645 03:15:31,902 --> 03:15:34,902 可能也经历了三四轮的一个快速的周期 2646 03:15:34,902 --> 03:15:37,902 那么站在今天相对一个熊市的市场来看 2647 03:15:37,902 --> 03:15:42,902 NFT其实它跟很多的IP流量结合 2648 03:15:42,902 --> 03:15:45,902 其实让整个Crypto世界变得更加的多元 2649 03:15:45,902 --> 03:15:47,902 所以这一点特别特别重要 2650 03:15:47,902 --> 03:15:50,902 因为未来还是属于年轻一代的 2651 03:15:50,902 --> 03:15:52,902 所以在这样的一个条件之下 2652 03:15:52,902 --> 03:15:56,902 NFT也带来了很多的行业的新生的力量 2653 03:15:56,902 --> 03:15:59,902 所以我个人虽然可能亏了很多钱 2654 03:15:59,902 --> 03:16:03,902 但是个人依然非常坚定的看好整个NFT市场 2655 03:16:03,902 --> 03:16:08,902 对Crypto的未来带来的一些新鲜血液 2656 03:16:08,902 --> 03:16:10,902 另外是说我们可以看到 2657 03:16:10,902 --> 03:16:12,902 现实世界里面有很多资产 2658 03:16:12,902 --> 03:16:14,902 它都是非标准化的 2659 03:16:14,902 --> 03:16:19,902 这些资产其实在链上很难通过标准化的通证来表达 2660 03:16:19,902 --> 03:16:22,902 那么NFT是一个很好的资产品类 2661 03:16:22,902 --> 03:16:26,902 它可以承载很多一些现实世界的资产 2662 03:16:26,902 --> 03:16:28,902 从这个角度切入的话 2663 03:16:28,902 --> 03:16:31,902 我觉得未来NFT市场还大有可为 2664 03:16:31,902 --> 03:16:34,902 所以它可能不单单是我们现在看到的PFP 2665 03:16:34,902 --> 03:16:36,902 这些收藏价值 2666 03:16:36,902 --> 03:16:39,902 它可能还有很多跟现实世界结合的一些价值 2667 03:16:39,902 --> 03:16:42,902 但是背后可能还需要我们更多的努力 2668 03:16:42,902 --> 03:16:45,902 去推动行业跟现实世界更好的结合 2669 03:16:45,902 --> 03:16:47,902 这个路可能会漫长一点 2670 03:16:47,902 --> 03:16:51,902 但是我觉得应该在不遥远的未来会成为现实 2671 03:16:51,902 --> 03:16:52,902 OK 2672 03:16:52,902 --> 03:16:53,902 好的 2673 03:16:53,902 --> 03:16:55,902 沈渔要不要喝点水 2674 03:16:55,902 --> 03:16:56,902 这个一直在 2675 03:16:56,902 --> 03:16:57,902 对 2676 03:16:57,902 --> 03:16:59,902 我们采访时间还有点长 2677 03:16:59,902 --> 03:17:00,902 对 2678 03:17:00,902 --> 03:17:03,902 下一个就是我们一直其实是在沿着历史往前聊 2679 03:17:03,902 --> 03:17:05,902 就来到了2022年 2680 03:17:05,902 --> 03:17:10,902 其实2022年是Crypto行业也是一个非常惨痛的一年 2681 03:17:10,902 --> 03:17:14,902 甚至可能是历史上爆雷金额最大的一年 2682 03:17:14,902 --> 03:17:15,902 对吧 2683 03:17:15,902 --> 03:17:17,902 可能是从一开始的 2684 03:17:17,902 --> 03:17:20,902 中国的一些小交易所 2685 03:17:20,902 --> 03:17:21,902 什么虎服 2686 03:17:21,902 --> 03:17:22,902 AEX 2687 03:17:22,902 --> 03:17:25,902 然后到TERA 2688 03:17:25,902 --> 03:17:27,902 引起一个巨大的震动 2689 03:17:27,902 --> 03:17:28,902 随后 2690 03:17:28,902 --> 03:17:30,902 TERA又引爆了 2691 03:17:30,902 --> 03:17:31,902 Serial arrows 2692 03:17:31,902 --> 03:17:32,902 对 2693 03:17:32,902 --> 03:17:39,902 曾经在Crypto的风险投资里面排名最好的一个资本 2694 03:17:39,902 --> 03:17:40,902 三件资本 2695 03:17:40,902 --> 03:17:41,902 随后 2696 03:17:41,902 --> 03:17:44,902 三件资本又开始继续引爆 2697 03:17:44,902 --> 03:17:50,902 三件资本又引爆了行业最大的一个集团巨头DCG 2698 03:17:50,902 --> 03:17:55,902 大家才发现原来这些外表非常光鲜的巨头是这么的脆弱 2699 03:17:55,902 --> 03:17:59,902 本来当大家以为这个事已经快结束的时候 2700 03:17:59,902 --> 03:18:02,902 下半年最凶猛的来了 2701 03:18:02,902 --> 03:18:07,902 全世界行业的顶端最金光闪闪 2702 03:18:07,902 --> 03:18:09,902 所有给政客捐款 2703 03:18:09,902 --> 03:18:11,902 给宗教领袖捐款 2704 03:18:11,902 --> 03:18:14,902 给利他主义 2705 03:18:14,902 --> 03:18:20,902 每天出席各种非常优秀的这样的一些会议的 2706 03:18:20,902 --> 03:18:21,902 SAM 2707 03:18:21,902 --> 03:18:22,902 SPF 2708 03:18:22,902 --> 03:18:25,902 FTX的创始人 2709 03:18:25,902 --> 03:18:28,902 他竟然挪用了用户的资产 2710 03:18:28,902 --> 03:18:30,902 而且资不抵债 2711 03:18:30,902 --> 03:18:35,902 而且非常荒唐的进行了大量的很荒谬的交易 2712 03:18:35,902 --> 03:18:39,902 随着一篇简单的新闻报道 2713 03:18:39,902 --> 03:18:41,902 赵长鹏的一条推特 2714 03:18:41,902 --> 03:18:46,902 几百亿的帝国竟然就可以在一夕之间崩塌 2715 03:18:46,902 --> 03:18:49,902 所以2022年在加密货币的历史上 2716 03:18:49,902 --> 03:18:53,902 我觉得一定是一个非常痛苦 2717 03:18:53,902 --> 03:18:55,902 但又非常刺激 2718 03:18:55,902 --> 03:18:58,902 但也给大家留下非常多教训的一年 2719 03:18:58,902 --> 03:19:01,902 包括矿权也有很多 2720 03:19:01,902 --> 03:19:03,902 大家耳熟能详的公司 2721 03:19:03,902 --> 03:19:05,902 最后倒闭 2722 03:19:05,902 --> 03:19:08,902 甚至有很多问题都没有处理 2723 03:19:08,902 --> 03:19:09,902 神鱼就是回顾 2724 03:19:09,902 --> 03:19:10,902 当然这个神鱼 2725 03:19:10,902 --> 03:19:14,902 你们在2022年其实还是比较稳健 2726 03:19:14,902 --> 03:19:15,902 就是从你的角度来看 2727 03:19:15,902 --> 03:19:19,902 或者这种一种回顾来看 2728 03:19:19,902 --> 03:19:21,902 你觉得对这个行业有什么 2729 03:19:21,902 --> 03:19:22,902 你印象是最深刻的 2730 03:19:22,902 --> 03:19:24,902 2022年这些教训里面 2731 03:19:24,902 --> 03:19:26,902 或者说你觉得这个行业 2732 03:19:26,902 --> 03:19:30,902 有没有必要吸取一些什么样的教训 2733 03:19:30,902 --> 03:19:31,902 OK 2734 03:19:31,902 --> 03:19:33,902 刚才主持人讲了这么多 2735 03:19:33,902 --> 03:19:35,902 2020年的确非常的残酷 2736 03:19:35,902 --> 03:19:37,902 身边有很多老朋友 2737 03:19:37,902 --> 03:19:39,902 因为各种各样的事情 2738 03:19:39,902 --> 03:19:42,902 都可能不能一起吃饭了 2739 03:19:42,902 --> 03:19:44,902 过去这一年 2740 03:19:44,902 --> 03:19:46,902 行业整体的波动是非常的大的 2741 03:19:46,902 --> 03:19:49,902 然后层出不穷的各种各样的事故 2742 03:19:49,902 --> 03:19:52,902 但是我们回头来看 2743 03:19:52,902 --> 03:19:54,902 其实跟比特币诞生至今 2744 03:19:54,902 --> 03:19:55,902 十多年的历史上 2745 03:19:55,902 --> 03:19:56,902 各种各样的 2746 03:19:56,902 --> 03:19:58,902 类似蒙特利尔 2747 03:19:58,902 --> 03:19:59,902 可能更早之前 2748 03:19:59,902 --> 03:20:01,902 大家不知道的一些安全事故 2749 03:20:01,902 --> 03:20:03,902 其实都是底层逻辑都是一样的 2750 03:20:03,902 --> 03:20:06,902 其实本质都是人性的问题 2751 03:20:06,902 --> 03:20:08,902 虽然我们行业广为诟病的是 2752 03:20:08,902 --> 03:20:09,902 波动率高 2753 03:20:09,902 --> 03:20:13,902 是我们充满着各种各样的不确定性 2754 03:20:13,902 --> 03:20:15,902 但是过去两年多的时间 2755 03:20:15,902 --> 03:20:18,902 整个行业的确定性变得非常非常的强 2756 03:20:18,902 --> 03:20:20,902 因为我们来了大量的 2757 03:20:20,902 --> 03:20:23,902 带着非常光鲜绿丽的朋友 2758 03:20:23,902 --> 03:20:26,902 来了非常多的华尔街的资本 2759 03:20:26,902 --> 03:20:28,902 然后整个行业开始了 2760 03:20:28,902 --> 03:20:30,902 有了原生的应用 2761 03:20:30,902 --> 03:20:31,902 有了DeFi 2762 03:20:31,902 --> 03:20:32,902 有了MT 2763 03:20:32,902 --> 03:20:33,902 有了GameFi 2764 03:20:33,902 --> 03:20:35,902 再也不是空气了 2765 03:20:35,902 --> 03:20:37,902 在这样的一片兮兮向荣之中 2766 03:20:37,902 --> 03:20:39,902 突然栽了一个大坑 2767 03:20:39,902 --> 03:20:41,902 泡沫破灭了 2768 03:20:41,902 --> 03:20:43,902 很多事情幻灭了 2769 03:20:43,902 --> 03:20:45,902 其实这个角度来看 2770 03:20:45,902 --> 03:20:46,902 我们在很久之前 2771 03:20:46,902 --> 03:20:49,902 其实也经历了一轮又一轮这样的事情 2772 03:20:49,902 --> 03:20:50,902 底层还是说 2773 03:20:50,902 --> 03:20:52,902 大家对自身 2774 03:20:52,902 --> 03:20:53,902 对个人 2775 03:20:53,902 --> 03:20:55,902 对公司越来越膨胀了 2776 03:20:55,902 --> 03:20:57,902 到了一定的心理状态之后 2777 03:20:57,902 --> 03:21:00,902 很多决策已经不再那么理性了 2778 03:21:00,902 --> 03:21:02,902 大家去坚信 2779 03:21:02,902 --> 03:21:05,902 这个价格可能不会跌破一个区间 2780 03:21:05,902 --> 03:21:07,902 我们的杠杆可以用的更高 2781 03:21:07,902 --> 03:21:08,902 收益可能更丰 2782 03:21:08,902 --> 03:21:13,902 我觉得可能偏离了整个区块链的初衷 2783 03:21:13,902 --> 03:21:15,902 所以在这一点上来看 2784 03:21:15,902 --> 03:21:18,902 其实区块链给了我们很多自由 2785 03:21:18,902 --> 03:21:21,902 让我们有了这样的技术手段和工具 2786 03:21:21,902 --> 03:21:24,902 能够提供一个更加透明 2787 03:21:24,902 --> 03:21:26,902 开放的一个世界 2788 03:21:26,902 --> 03:21:30,902 但是反倒因为这些权力 2789 03:21:30,902 --> 03:21:33,902 最终被我们终端的这些用户 2790 03:21:33,902 --> 03:21:35,902 让渡给了这些中心化的 2791 03:21:35,902 --> 03:21:37,902 这些机构的所有者 2792 03:21:37,902 --> 03:21:41,902 虽然它表面看起来非常的光鲜明亮 2793 03:21:41,902 --> 03:21:44,902 参与各种各样的政治事件 2794 03:21:44,902 --> 03:21:45,902 但在这个过程中 2795 03:21:45,902 --> 03:21:47,902 我们其实每一个用户 2796 03:21:47,902 --> 03:21:51,902 没有去掌握好这个行业底层 2797 03:21:51,902 --> 03:21:53,902 赋予我们的技术能力 2798 03:21:53,902 --> 03:21:55,902 把我们最强的一把剑 2799 03:21:55,902 --> 03:21:58,902 让渡给了一个第三方来替我们来保管 2800 03:21:58,902 --> 03:22:02,902 这是个行业目前面临的一个非常大的挑战 2801 03:22:02,902 --> 03:22:05,902 然后帮我们去管理这把K的人 2802 03:22:05,902 --> 03:22:06,902 我们委托的这个人 2803 03:22:06,902 --> 03:22:10,902 他很难去抵抗他内心的贪婪 2804 03:22:10,902 --> 03:22:11,902 换位思考 2805 03:22:11,902 --> 03:22:14,902 作为这样的一个管理者 2806 03:22:14,902 --> 03:22:17,902 他很轻松动用了大家的K 2807 03:22:17,902 --> 03:22:19,902 很多人也不知道的情况之下 2808 03:22:19,902 --> 03:22:21,902 行业波动率又很高 2809 03:22:21,902 --> 03:22:24,902 有非常多的信息优势的情况下 2810 03:22:24,902 --> 03:22:25,902 很容易赚一笔大钱 2811 03:22:25,902 --> 03:22:27,902 当行业处在一个急速扩张 2812 03:22:27,902 --> 03:22:29,902 大家信心膨胀的状态中 2813 03:22:29,902 --> 03:22:32,902 或多或少就有一定的概率的人 2814 03:22:32,902 --> 03:22:35,902 抵抗不了内心这样的诱惑 2815 03:22:35,902 --> 03:22:37,902 偷偷地用来这把K 2816 03:22:37,902 --> 03:22:40,902 那动用一次可能盈利了 2817 03:22:40,902 --> 03:22:42,902 他的信息就进一步膨胀 2818 03:22:42,902 --> 03:22:43,902 就用的越来越多 2819 03:22:43,902 --> 03:22:47,902 那最终状态可能一个极端的黑天鹅 2820 03:22:47,902 --> 03:22:48,902 一个突发事故 2821 03:22:48,902 --> 03:22:51,902 导致了资产就灰飞烟灭 2822 03:22:51,902 --> 03:22:56,902 所以我觉得2022年其实是屈美的一年 2823 03:22:56,902 --> 03:22:58,902 就是我们不再 2824 03:22:58,902 --> 03:23:01,902 我们得到了一个非常重要的教训是说 2825 03:23:01,902 --> 03:23:03,902 大家一定要深刻地意识到 2826 03:23:03,902 --> 03:23:05,902 是公司都可以会破产 2827 03:23:05,902 --> 03:23:07,902 我们能相信的是什么 2828 03:23:07,902 --> 03:23:09,902 我们不应该相信人性 2829 03:23:09,902 --> 03:23:11,902 我们应该相信数学是吧 2830 03:23:11,902 --> 03:23:13,902 我们应该相信这底层的技术原理 2831 03:23:13,902 --> 03:23:18,902 所以大家一定是要如何的去掌握好区块链 2832 03:23:18,902 --> 03:23:21,902 赋予我们在新时代下的这些技术手段 2833 03:23:21,902 --> 03:23:24,902 去掌握好自己手里的这把K 2834 03:23:25,902 --> 03:23:26,902 所以围绕这一点 2835 03:23:26,902 --> 03:23:29,902 其实行业在经历了去年一整年的 2836 03:23:29,902 --> 03:23:31,902 这些极端事情之后呢 2837 03:23:31,902 --> 03:23:33,902 大家也在探讨 2838 03:23:33,902 --> 03:23:35,902 也在积极地去思考 2839 03:23:35,902 --> 03:23:38,902 未来我们怎么能够让每一个人 2840 03:23:38,902 --> 03:23:41,902 更好的去使用区块链的技术 2841 03:23:41,902 --> 03:23:43,902 增加整个行业的透明度 2842 03:23:43,902 --> 03:23:47,902 去规避那些让逆人性的事情 2843 03:23:47,902 --> 03:23:48,902 所以我们现在看到了 2844 03:23:48,902 --> 03:23:52,902 说GMPC多方计算技术之下的 2845 03:23:52,902 --> 03:23:54,902 这种无私要的技术正在快速发展 2846 03:23:54,902 --> 03:23:56,902 我相信在不远的未来 2847 03:23:56,902 --> 03:24:01,902 每一个人就可以开箱即用的拥有一个K 2848 03:24:01,902 --> 03:24:04,902 但是你的对手方 2849 03:24:04,902 --> 03:24:06,902 你的你提供服务的方 2850 03:24:06,902 --> 03:24:09,902 他们可能只拥有帮助你管理的一把K 2851 03:24:09,902 --> 03:24:11,902 所有的交易的过程 2852 03:24:11,902 --> 03:24:13,902 你的资产不会在任何一方手里 2853 03:24:13,902 --> 03:24:15,902 都是公开透明可见的 2854 03:24:15,902 --> 03:24:20,902 能够充分地使用到区块链的底层的特性和数学 2855 03:24:20,902 --> 03:24:22,902 这样作为基础保障 2856 03:24:22,902 --> 03:24:24,902 我觉得这个未来 2857 03:24:24,902 --> 03:24:25,902 虽然我们可能在22年 2858 03:24:25,902 --> 03:24:27,902 得到了非常惨痛的教训 2859 03:24:27,902 --> 03:24:32,902 基本上行业百分之四五十的中心化的机构 2860 03:24:32,902 --> 03:24:34,902 因为各种各样的原因 2861 03:24:34,902 --> 03:24:36,902 灰飞烟灭受到波及 2862 03:24:36,902 --> 03:24:40,902 但是这也让我们在去中心化一侧的决心 2863 03:24:40,902 --> 03:24:41,902 走得更加的坚决 2864 03:24:41,902 --> 03:24:45,902 我们能够明显地感觉行业基本达成共识 2865 03:24:45,902 --> 03:24:48,902 我们在GMPC的无私要解决方案 2866 03:24:48,902 --> 03:24:50,902 在去中心化透明度层面 2867 03:24:50,902 --> 03:24:52,902 明显地往上走了一大截 2868 03:24:52,902 --> 03:24:56,902 这些我们可能看到一个比较明显的例子 2869 03:24:56,902 --> 03:24:58,902 这些大型的对冲基金 2870 03:24:58,902 --> 03:25:03,902 Macmaker这些团队都开始主动要求 2871 03:25:03,902 --> 03:25:07,902 要使用NPC技术来协助管理他们的资产 2872 03:25:07,902 --> 03:25:09,902 而不说把资产紧紧地 2873 03:25:09,902 --> 03:25:12,902 非常放心地放在中心化的交易所 2874 03:25:12,902 --> 03:25:13,902 另外我们也看到了 2875 03:25:13,902 --> 03:25:15,902 链上的这种原生就是去中心化的 2876 03:25:15,902 --> 03:25:18,902 透明的DEX他们的交易量 2877 03:25:18,902 --> 03:25:19,902 包括衍生品的交易量 2878 03:25:19,902 --> 03:25:21,902 也在快速的飞速的发展 2879 03:25:21,902 --> 03:25:22,902 所以从这个维度来讲 2880 03:25:22,902 --> 03:25:26,902 我觉得2020年我们得到了一个很大的教训 2881 03:25:26,902 --> 03:25:30,902 但是行业的从业者这帮加密极客 2882 03:25:30,902 --> 03:25:31,902 已经take了这教训 2883 03:25:31,902 --> 03:25:34,902 我们正在走出这样的一个低谷 2884 03:25:34,902 --> 03:25:38,902 他在未来的两到五年的时间里面 2885 03:25:38,902 --> 03:25:42,902 势必给我们带来更多的这样的技术手段 2886 03:25:42,902 --> 03:25:44,902 让我们拥有更多的自由 2887 03:25:45,902 --> 03:25:47,902 对我也补充一点 2888 03:25:47,902 --> 03:25:49,902 就确实2022年非常惨痛 2889 03:25:49,902 --> 03:25:52,902 但是行业也有了很多改进 2890 03:25:52,902 --> 03:25:53,902 比如像中心化的交易所 2891 03:25:53,902 --> 03:25:55,902 他也开始有了这个叫 2892 03:25:55,902 --> 03:25:57,902 链上的储备证明POR 2893 03:25:57,902 --> 03:25:59,902 这个虽然大家有很多诟病 2894 03:25:59,902 --> 03:26:00,902 他也有很多问题 2895 03:26:00,902 --> 03:26:03,902 但是这还是一个非常重要的事情 2896 03:26:03,902 --> 03:26:04,902 我就简单来说 2897 03:26:04,902 --> 03:26:07,902 比如对于如果有一些正在看我们视频 2898 03:26:07,902 --> 03:26:10,902 或者在场的小白用户来说 2899 03:26:10,902 --> 03:26:12,902 如果你的币所在的交易所 2900 03:26:12,902 --> 03:26:14,902 是没有公布他的POR证明的 2901 03:26:14,902 --> 03:26:17,902 请果断的把你的这个币取出 2902 03:26:17,902 --> 03:26:20,902 这个如果一个交易所连POR证明都不敢公布的话 2903 03:26:20,902 --> 03:26:22,902 那么他为什么要做交易所呢 2904 03:26:22,902 --> 03:26:25,902 那么他又把用户的钱挪用到哪去了呢 2905 03:26:25,902 --> 03:26:29,902 这是一个已经变成了一个非常简单的选择 2906 03:26:29,902 --> 03:26:30,902 对这个 2907 03:26:30,902 --> 03:26:33,902 然后我们在下一个问题就是 2908 03:26:33,902 --> 03:26:35,902 可以简单的展望一下未来 2909 03:26:35,902 --> 03:26:36,902 就是这个明年呢 2910 03:26:36,902 --> 03:26:39,902 是比特币的下一次的减半 2911 03:26:39,902 --> 03:26:41,902 这个一般伴随这个减半呢 2912 03:26:41,902 --> 03:26:43,902 行情往往也会有一些变动 2913 03:26:43,902 --> 03:26:47,902 当然现在也有很多人认为这个比特币的价格 2914 03:26:47,902 --> 03:26:49,902 他跟这个美联储啊 2915 03:26:49,902 --> 03:26:50,902 可能会有更深的关系 2916 03:26:50,902 --> 03:26:53,902 而不再受这个比特币减半的周期影响 2917 03:26:53,902 --> 03:26:55,902 这个我们就请神鱼 2918 03:26:55,902 --> 03:26:57,902 这个可能很多人也问过 2919 03:26:57,902 --> 03:27:01,902 老调重谈的来谈一谈你对这个明年比特币减半 2920 03:27:01,902 --> 03:27:04,902 包括这个减半可能对价格呀 2921 03:27:04,902 --> 03:27:06,902 或者对行情带来的一个影响 2922 03:27:06,902 --> 03:27:07,902 你个人的判断啊 2923 03:27:07,902 --> 03:27:10,902 不作为这个财务投资建议 2924 03:27:10,902 --> 03:27:12,902 OK我首先声明啊 2925 03:27:12,902 --> 03:27:14,902 本人不太适合二级投资 2926 03:27:14,902 --> 03:27:18,902 所以我从我进入这个行业前三个月 2927 03:27:18,902 --> 03:27:19,902 我就发现了这件事情 2928 03:27:19,902 --> 03:27:21,902 所以我才走上了挖矿的这条道路 2929 03:27:21,902 --> 03:27:23,902 要不我就炒币去了啊 2930 03:27:23,902 --> 03:27:25,902 所以以下不作为投资建议 2931 03:27:25,902 --> 03:27:27,902 从加密货币的历史来看 2932 03:27:27,902 --> 03:27:28,902 其实从2017年以后 2933 03:27:28,902 --> 03:27:32,902 整个加密货币其实跟宏观的关联度就非常的高的 2934 03:27:32,902 --> 03:27:33,902 尤其啊 2935 03:27:33,902 --> 03:27:37,902 这个今年这个加息以来 2936 03:27:37,902 --> 03:27:39,902 这个关联度就更高一些了 2937 03:27:39,902 --> 03:27:41,902 虽然可能我们有一些 2938 03:27:41,902 --> 03:27:43,902 有一些可能行业原生的一些因素 2939 03:27:43,902 --> 03:27:45,902 带来的一些事件驱动的结果 2940 03:27:45,902 --> 03:27:49,902 那从今年或者短期的这个角度来看 2941 03:27:49,902 --> 03:27:51,902 我觉得有两个大的核心驱动因素 2942 03:27:51,902 --> 03:27:53,902 一个因素肯定是宏观了 2943 03:27:53,902 --> 03:27:56,902 因为取决于我们是个小池塘 2944 03:27:56,902 --> 03:27:58,902 取决于我们池塘的水位 2945 03:27:58,902 --> 03:28:01,902 有一个因素是宏观是否会放水 2946 03:28:01,902 --> 03:28:04,902 那目前来看这个宏观可能会改善 2947 03:28:04,902 --> 03:28:07,902 所以再加上可能三月份 2948 03:28:07,902 --> 03:28:09,902 大量的美国的银行的爆雷 2949 03:28:09,902 --> 03:28:14,902 让大家把比特币又纷纷当成了避险资产 2950 03:28:14,902 --> 03:28:15,902 从这个角度来看 2951 03:28:15,902 --> 03:28:18,902 可能宏观在改善这个因素 2952 03:28:18,902 --> 03:28:21,902 我觉得可能起码是个中性的因素 2953 03:28:21,902 --> 03:28:22,902 第二个因素来看 2954 03:28:22,902 --> 03:28:24,902 是行业内生的一些驱动因素 2955 03:28:24,902 --> 03:28:28,902 那么减半虽然可能是说从经济学上角度来讲 2956 03:28:28,902 --> 03:28:30,902 它其实目前起不了太大的作用 2957 03:28:30,902 --> 03:28:32,902 但是它是一个很好的叙事逻辑 2958 03:28:33,902 --> 03:28:34,902 并且大家也都相信 2959 03:28:34,902 --> 03:28:36,902 所以在这样的一个叙事框架里面 2960 03:28:36,902 --> 03:28:42,902 我觉得大概率今年Q4到明年应该还有一轮减半行情 2961 03:28:42,902 --> 03:28:46,902 那我们要简单计算一点的 2962 03:28:46,902 --> 03:28:49,902 又是现在世界上主流的矿机 2963 03:28:49,902 --> 03:28:51,902 还是S19这样的矿机 2964 03:28:51,902 --> 03:28:54,902 他们的挖矿的明年如果减半之后呢 2965 03:28:54,902 --> 03:28:57,902 这个币价稳不到三万美金以上 2966 03:28:57,902 --> 03:28:59,902 这些矿机都得关机 2967 03:28:59,902 --> 03:29:01,902 在历史上很少发生这样的情况 2968 03:29:01,902 --> 03:29:04,902 即使发生了也是很短暂的 2969 03:29:04,902 --> 03:29:08,902 所以我个人觉得对Q4到明年的减半行情 2970 03:29:08,902 --> 03:29:10,902 还是我觉得值得期待的 2971 03:29:10,902 --> 03:29:11,902 了解 2972 03:29:11,902 --> 03:29:16,902 咱们这个对话也快到尾声了 2973 03:29:16,902 --> 03:29:18,902 最后我们知道神鱼 2974 03:29:18,902 --> 03:29:21,902 他是COBO的创始人 2975 03:29:21,902 --> 03:29:24,902 然后也请神鱼介绍一下COBO 2976 03:29:24,902 --> 03:29:27,902 我们也知道COBO它主要是做托管业务 2977 03:29:27,902 --> 03:29:31,902 包括托管业务其实是一个投入非常大的 2978 03:29:31,902 --> 03:29:34,902 包括它是一个比较长期的业务 2979 03:29:34,902 --> 03:29:36,902 就想请神鱼介绍一下 2980 03:29:36,902 --> 03:29:39,902 COBO的一个未来的发展方向 2981 03:29:39,902 --> 03:29:43,902 以及你们会不会如何与一些西方的 2982 03:29:43,902 --> 03:29:46,902 现在主流的托管机构去进行一些竞争 2983 03:29:46,902 --> 03:29:49,902 怎么能够变得更有优势 2984 03:29:49,902 --> 03:29:51,902 其实这个行业我们回头 2985 03:29:51,902 --> 03:29:53,902 我们刚才聊了非常多的行业 2986 03:29:53,902 --> 03:29:55,902 早期一路发展过来 2987 03:29:55,902 --> 03:29:57,902 其实我们能看到这个行业 2988 03:29:57,902 --> 03:29:59,902 目前核心有两大问题 2989 03:29:59,902 --> 03:30:01,902 第一大问题就是TPS问题 2990 03:30:01,902 --> 03:30:03,902 性能问题我们刚才也提到 2991 03:30:03,902 --> 03:30:05,902 每一轮的行业的发展都是说 2992 03:30:05,902 --> 03:30:07,902 应用驱动最后带来基础是跟不上 2993 03:30:07,902 --> 03:30:08,902 然后泡沫破灭 2994 03:30:08,902 --> 03:30:10,902 然后继续去迭代基础设施 2995 03:30:10,902 --> 03:30:12,902 核心就是TPS的问题 2996 03:30:12,902 --> 03:30:14,902 第二个大的问题其实是说 2997 03:30:14,902 --> 03:30:18,902 我们给终端用户提供的一套解决方案 2998 03:30:18,902 --> 03:30:22,902 这套解决方案能够让用户非常简单 2999 03:30:22,902 --> 03:30:24,902 同时又能保证用户的安全性 3000 03:30:24,902 --> 03:30:25,902 在情况之下 3001 03:30:25,902 --> 03:30:27,902 让用户接入整个区块链 3002 03:30:27,902 --> 03:30:31,902 让用户不会把自己掌握K的权利 3003 03:30:31,902 --> 03:30:32,902 让渡给第三方 3004 03:30:32,902 --> 03:30:35,902 所以基本上这是行业两个大的问题 3005 03:30:35,902 --> 03:30:37,902 我们目前能看到第一个问题 3006 03:30:37,902 --> 03:30:40,902 性能问题可能在不远的未来应该能解决 3007 03:30:40,902 --> 03:30:42,902 基本上行业经过了七八年的探索 3008 03:30:42,902 --> 03:30:44,902 基本上围绕着二层网络 3009 03:30:44,902 --> 03:30:46,902 三层网络这样的方式去解决 3010 03:30:46,902 --> 03:30:47,902 那么接下来的问题 3011 03:30:47,902 --> 03:30:50,902 其实就是底层思想安全的问题 3012 03:30:50,902 --> 03:30:52,902 那么Kobo我们就是这样的一家公司 3013 03:30:52,902 --> 03:30:54,902 我们从2017年开始发现 3014 03:30:54,902 --> 03:30:57,902 整个加密世界出现了层出不穷的安全事故 3015 03:30:57,902 --> 03:30:59,902 大家开始越来越多跟链交互了 3016 03:30:59,902 --> 03:31:02,902 这样就让很多无助的人 3017 03:31:02,902 --> 03:31:05,902 不掌握技术的人暴露在了这些黑客的前面 3018 03:31:05,902 --> 03:31:07,902 所以我们试图去构建一套 3019 03:31:07,902 --> 03:31:09,902 围绕着底层资产安全次要 3020 03:31:09,902 --> 03:31:12,902 和及其次要风险管理的一套解决方案 3021 03:31:12,902 --> 03:31:13,902 所以也就有了Kobo 3022 03:31:13,902 --> 03:31:16,902 所以我们基本上的底层逻辑是说 3023 03:31:16,902 --> 03:31:18,902 围绕着行业的不同阶段 3024 03:31:18,902 --> 03:31:20,902 找到它的核心的应用场景 3025 03:31:20,902 --> 03:31:21,902 在这个应用场景之下 3026 03:31:21,902 --> 03:31:24,902 我们提供一套的围绕着次要的解决方案 3027 03:31:24,902 --> 03:31:25,902 那么第一个阶段 3028 03:31:25,902 --> 03:31:30,902 其实我们是以比特币为代表的这样的阶段 3029 03:31:30,902 --> 03:31:31,902 大家的核心区块链的应用 3030 03:31:31,902 --> 03:31:33,902 其实就是收发存储转移 3031 03:31:33,902 --> 03:31:36,902 然后再加上交易比特币这样的数字资产 3032 03:31:36,902 --> 03:31:37,902 所以在这个阶段 3033 03:31:37,902 --> 03:31:39,902 我们做了一叫做Kobo Kase 3034 03:31:39,902 --> 03:31:42,902 一套纯中心化的托管解决方案 3035 03:31:42,902 --> 03:31:44,902 把整个区块链的钱包 3036 03:31:44,902 --> 03:31:45,902 作为一个SaaS网产品 3037 03:31:45,902 --> 03:31:46,902 做成walletized service 3038 03:31:46,902 --> 03:31:49,902 让这些有收发存储转账用户的需求 3039 03:31:49,902 --> 03:31:51,902 直接调我们的API就可以使用 3040 03:31:51,902 --> 03:31:54,902 所以非常适合现在的香港的状态 3041 03:31:54,902 --> 03:31:56,902 就大量的合规基金 3042 03:31:56,902 --> 03:31:57,902 有大量的新兴的交易所 3043 03:31:57,902 --> 03:32:00,902 他们需要找到一个合规安全 3044 03:32:00,902 --> 03:32:02,902 易用外霸的体验的一套产品 3045 03:32:02,902 --> 03:32:06,902 这就是我们的Kobo Kase和walletized service的这套服务 3046 03:32:06,902 --> 03:32:07,902 那么到了第二个阶段 3047 03:32:07,902 --> 03:32:09,902 我们发现OK 3048 03:32:09,902 --> 03:32:12,902 大家开始有跟链有大量的交互 3049 03:32:12,902 --> 03:32:14,902 这时候你就需要有链上交互能力 3050 03:32:14,902 --> 03:32:15,902 和合约状态管理能力 3051 03:32:15,902 --> 03:32:18,902 这时候就把我们在DeFi领域积累的 3052 03:32:18,902 --> 03:32:20,902 大量的这样的能力 3053 03:32:20,902 --> 03:32:22,902 我们把它封装成了Kobo Argos这样的产品 3054 03:32:22,902 --> 03:32:26,902 它的核心是底层是链上的多签 3055 03:32:26,902 --> 03:32:29,902 它有非常多的跟各种各样区块链上 3056 03:32:29,902 --> 03:32:31,902 DeFi协议打交互的能力 3057 03:32:31,902 --> 03:32:34,902 同时又有一系列的风险管理的模块 3058 03:32:34,902 --> 03:32:36,902 和一些自动化的程序 3059 03:32:36,902 --> 03:32:38,902 它更好的去支持这个链上 3060 03:32:38,902 --> 03:32:40,902 7×24小时的响应 3061 03:32:40,902 --> 03:32:41,902 处理一些极端情况 3062 03:32:41,902 --> 03:32:43,902 那么到了第三个阶段 3063 03:32:43,902 --> 03:32:45,902 也就是后FTS时代 3064 03:32:45,902 --> 03:32:47,902 大家开始越来越意识到 3065 03:32:47,902 --> 03:32:49,902 掌握K的重要性 3066 03:32:49,902 --> 03:32:52,902 所以很多的大型的机构开始说 3067 03:32:52,902 --> 03:32:54,902 我们能不能有一个透明的 3068 03:32:54,902 --> 03:32:56,902 单独隔离的资产池 3069 03:32:56,902 --> 03:32:59,902 然后所有的资产需要我来授权同意 3070 03:32:59,902 --> 03:33:00,902 才能使用 3071 03:33:00,902 --> 03:33:03,902 所以我们在最早期的中心化通关机制上 3072 03:33:03,902 --> 03:33:05,902 把底层的技术迭代到了MPC的技术 3073 03:33:05,902 --> 03:33:07,902 就是用户中端的用户 3074 03:33:07,902 --> 03:33:08,902 他掌握一把K 3075 03:33:08,902 --> 03:33:09,902 我们来掌握一把K 3076 03:33:09,902 --> 03:33:12,902 来协助来管理他的资产 3077 03:33:12,902 --> 03:33:14,902 我们这把K主要用来做风控 3078 03:33:14,902 --> 03:33:15,902 那么还有一把K 3079 03:33:15,902 --> 03:33:17,902 用来冷存储放在一个第三方 3080 03:33:17,902 --> 03:33:18,902 可能是安全公司 3081 03:33:18,902 --> 03:33:22,902 也可能是一个保险公司来管理 3082 03:33:22,902 --> 03:33:24,902 后来很多的公司发现 3083 03:33:24,902 --> 03:33:26,902 这套方案非常的好 3084 03:33:26,902 --> 03:33:28,902 他们就在我们这套方案的基础之上 3085 03:33:28,902 --> 03:33:29,902 去迭代 3086 03:33:29,902 --> 03:33:32,902 面向他们的中端用户提供产品 3087 03:33:32,902 --> 03:33:34,902 那中端用户在他们那边 3088 03:33:34,902 --> 03:33:37,902 只掌握账号密码的情况之下 3089 03:33:37,902 --> 03:33:38,902 就可以很快地进入区块链 3090 03:33:38,902 --> 03:33:40,902 有大量的游戏类的公司 3091 03:33:40,902 --> 03:33:42,902 他们其实就用我们的解决方案 3092 03:33:42,902 --> 03:33:43,902 让他们的中端用户 3093 03:33:43,902 --> 03:33:44,902 用Y8的体验 3094 03:33:44,902 --> 03:33:46,902 进入到整个Crypt的世界 3095 03:33:46,902 --> 03:33:48,902 当中端用户成长到一定程度 3096 03:33:48,902 --> 03:33:50,902 可能他在链上有了高价的资产 3097 03:33:50,902 --> 03:33:51,902 比如说有个很稀缺的NFT 3098 03:33:51,902 --> 03:33:53,902 在游戏中突然获得了 3099 03:33:53,902 --> 03:33:56,902 他这时候就可以让他的账号升级 3100 03:33:56,902 --> 03:33:58,902 把第三把K授予这个用户 3101 03:33:58,902 --> 03:33:59,902 这时候这个用户 3102 03:33:59,902 --> 03:34:02,902 他已经有了意愿动机去学习 3103 03:34:02,902 --> 03:34:04,902 和理解一些基础的概念 3104 03:34:04,902 --> 03:34:06,902 他这时候他拿到他的这把K之后 3105 03:34:06,902 --> 03:34:08,902 他就能更好地去使用 3106 03:34:08,902 --> 03:34:11,902 基本上我们就是围绕着这三个阶段 3107 03:34:11,902 --> 03:34:13,902 去提供了三款不同的产品 3108 03:34:13,902 --> 03:34:16,902 纯中心化的基于加密机的 3109 03:34:16,902 --> 03:34:17,902 托管解决方案 3110 03:34:17,902 --> 03:34:19,902 面向链上智能合约的 3111 03:34:19,902 --> 03:34:20,902 多签的解决方案 3112 03:34:20,902 --> 03:34:22,902 基于去中心化的 3113 03:34:22,902 --> 03:34:24,902 血管的NPC的解决方案 3114 03:34:24,902 --> 03:34:25,902 所以基本上是三个方案 3115 03:34:25,902 --> 03:34:27,902 针对不同的场景 3116 03:34:27,902 --> 03:34:29,902 核心还是解决大家的 3117 03:34:29,902 --> 03:34:31,902 底层的资产安全和私钥 3118 03:34:31,902 --> 03:34:32,902 以及围绕私钥上面 3119 03:34:32,902 --> 03:34:35,902 使用的各种场景里面的风险的管理 3120 03:34:35,902 --> 03:34:37,902 我们也期望是说 3121 03:34:37,902 --> 03:34:40,902 通过我们这样的公司的努力和迭代 3122 03:34:40,902 --> 03:34:41,902 能够让更多的用户 3123 03:34:41,902 --> 03:34:43,902 能够更安全 3124 03:34:43,902 --> 03:34:44,902 易用 3125 03:34:44,902 --> 03:34:46,902 放心地涌入整个区块链 3126 03:34:46,902 --> 03:34:48,902 在我们链上探索非常精彩的 3127 03:34:48,902 --> 03:34:50,902 这样的链上生态 3128 03:34:50,902 --> 03:34:51,902 先好 3129 03:34:51,902 --> 03:34:52,902 那谢谢大家 3130 03:34:52,902 --> 03:34:54,902 大家如果有漏掉一些内容 3131 03:34:54,902 --> 03:34:56,902 可以在官网进行回放的观看 3132 03:34:56,902 --> 03:34:57,902 好谢谢大家 3133 03:34:57,902 --> 03:34:58,902 我们就结束了 3134 03:34:58,902 --> 03:35:01,902 谢谢谢谢两位的精彩分享 3135 03:35:01,902 --> 03:35:02,902 谢谢 3136 03:35:08,902 --> 03:35:09,902 女士们先生们 3137 03:35:09,902 --> 03:35:12,902 比特币系统技术发展计划 3138 03:35:12,902 --> 03:35:13,902 香港百岁音乐节 3139 03:35:13,902 --> 03:35:15,902 2023年 3140 03:35:15,902 --> 03:35:16,902 已经结束了 3141 03:35:16,902 --> 03:35:17,902 然而 3142 03:35:17,902 --> 03:35:19,902 还有更多精彩的计划 3143 03:35:19,902 --> 03:35:21,902 专门计划和其他计划 3144 03:35:21,902 --> 03:35:23,902 将在明天早上9点开始 3145 03:35:23,902 --> 03:35:25,902 所以请检查 3146 03:35:25,902 --> 03:35:26,902 计划文件 3147 03:35:26,902 --> 03:35:28,902 或在每个区域的出入口 3148 03:35:28,902 --> 03:35:30,902 签下来 3149 03:35:30,902 --> 03:35:32,902 来观看详细的计划 3150 03:35:32,902 --> 03:35:33,902 此外 3151 03:35:33,902 --> 03:35:34,902 在赞助商的标志上 3152 03:35:34,902 --> 03:35:35,902 有一个标志区域 3153 03:35:35,902 --> 03:35:36,902 标志上的计划 3154 03:35:36,902 --> 03:35:37,902 赞助商的标志 3155 03:35:37,902 --> 03:35:39,902 以及所有的合作伙伴 3156 03:35:39,902 --> 03:35:40,902 PATRONUM 3157 03:35:40,902 --> 03:35:41,902 GOAT 3158 03:35:41,902 --> 03:35:43,902 第一第二和第三级赞助商 3159 03:35:43,902 --> 03:35:44,902 所以在整个音乐节 3160 03:35:44,902 --> 03:35:45,902 您可以从各个区域 3161 03:35:45,902 --> 03:35:47,902 收集标志 3162 03:35:47,902 --> 03:35:48,902 通过展览楼 3163 03:35:48,902 --> 03:35:50,902 您可以与标志区域 3164 03:35:50,902 --> 03:35:51,902 交流 3165 03:35:51,902 --> 03:35:52,902 如果标志区域 3166 03:35:52,902 --> 03:35:53,902 有完整的标志 3167 03:35:53,902 --> 03:35:54,902 您可以前往 3168 03:35:54,902 --> 03:35:56,902 赞助商的资料桌 3169 03:35:57,902 --> 03:35:58,902 然后 3170 03:35:58,902 --> 03:35:59,902 您可以颁送 3171 03:35:59,902 --> 03:36:00,902 相应的礼物 3172 03:36:00,902 --> 03:36:01,902 并且 3173 03:36:01,902 --> 03:36:02,902 您可以颁送 3174 03:36:02,902 --> 03:36:03,902 相应的礼物 3175 03:36:03,902 --> 03:36:04,902 每位观众 3176 03:36:04,902 --> 03:36:05,902 每天可以收集一份 3177 03:36:05,902 --> 03:36:06,902 每份礼物 3178 03:36:06,902 --> 03:36:08,902 限量为500份 3179 03:36:08,902 --> 03:36:09,902 并且会在 3180 03:36:09,902 --> 03:36:10,902 第一来第一回 3181 03:36:10,902 --> 03:36:11,902 发送 3182 03:36:11,902 --> 03:36:12,902 再一次 3183 03:36:12,902 --> 03:36:13,902 我们想要感谢 3184 03:36:13,902 --> 03:36:15,902 我们的标志赞助商 3185 03:36:15,902 --> 03:36:17,902 OKX和ZA银行 3186 03:36:17,902 --> 03:36:19,902 官方支持组织 3187 03:36:19,902 --> 03:36:20,902 InvestHK 3188 03:36:20,902 --> 03:36:21,902 FintechHK 3189 03:36:21,902 --> 03:36:23,902 Hong Kong Science & Technology Park 3190 03:36:23,902 --> 03:36:24,902 和Cyberport 3191 03:36:24,902 --> 03:36:25,902 还有 3192 03:36:25,902 --> 03:36:27,902 我们的PATRONUM赞助商 3193 03:36:27,902 --> 03:36:28,902 NEO Filecoin 3194 03:36:28,902 --> 03:36:29,902 NEO 3195 03:36:29,902 --> 03:36:30,902 Opsite 3196 03:36:30,902 --> 03:36:31,902 和Questend 3197 03:36:32,902 --> 03:36:34,902 还有我们的标志赞助商 3198 03:36:34,902 --> 03:36:35,902 Avalanche 3199 03:36:35,902 --> 03:36:36,902 Leocene 3200 03:36:36,902 --> 03:36:37,902 Certic 3201 03:36:37,902 --> 03:36:38,902 DGFT 3202 03:36:38,902 --> 03:36:39,902 Dodo 3203 03:36:39,902 --> 03:36:40,902 DotBit 3204 03:36:40,902 --> 03:36:41,902 Foble 3205 03:36:41,902 --> 03:36:42,902 Map Protocol 3206 03:36:42,902 --> 03:36:44,902 Meta48 3207 03:36:44,902 --> 03:36:45,902 Metalfa 3208 03:36:45,902 --> 03:36:46,902 Mixed Marble 3209 03:36:46,902 --> 03:36:47,902 Neopets 3210 03:36:47,902 --> 03:36:48,902 Nervous 3211 03:36:48,902 --> 03:36:49,902 Pedal 3212 03:36:49,902 --> 03:36:50,902 Qtum 3213 03:36:50,902 --> 03:36:51,902 SafeHuron 3214 03:36:51,902 --> 03:36:52,902 SafePow 3215 03:36:52,902 --> 03:36:53,902 Zaber 3216 03:36:53,902 --> 03:36:54,902 WaterDrip 3217 03:36:54,902 --> 03:36:55,902 ZKP Lab 3218 03:36:55,902 --> 03:36:57,902 还有超过100位伙伴 3219 03:36:57,902 --> 03:36:58,902 支持了 3220 03:36:58,902 --> 03:37:00,902 HK Welfare Festival 2023 3221 03:37:00,902 --> 03:37:03,902 感谢您的支持 3222 03:37:03,902 --> 03:37:05,902 感谢您的参与 3223 03:37:05,902 --> 03:37:09,902 我们期待明天早上9点见到您 3224 03:37:09,902 --> 03:37:10,902 谢谢