1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,360 We're going to put out a splitting tool, and we're also going to do like a rehearsal, or like a dry run, we're going to do like a fork, like before the fork. 2 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:17,520 You can get it for ecash.com slash download. So we have lots and lots of stuff that you could see for yourself, and you get the fake coins, you can play around with it. 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,720 We're still kind of on schedule, and it's the end of August, so we kind of have two months still. 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,680 The exchange is the true owner of the coins. And so they will get all the coins. 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Look, I think we've covered plenty on the Thunderfront. I wanted to discuss, you know, the Z side, I wanted to get into Truthcoin. 6 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Well, Z side is based on the altcoin Zcash. So they did a huge amount of work on it. 7 00:00:48,000 --> 00:01:04,000 They had a lot of PhDs, and they created all this technology for these Z addresses, that if you can share them freely and reuse them, in fact, it's safe to reuse them, unlike a Bitcoin, where you're not supposed to reuse addresses. 8 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:13,000 But with the Z addresses, you may, because they hide the sender, the receiver, and the amount, using advanced cryptography. 9 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:22,000 So you could just say, send, here's my Z address, and then if you sent me five Z coins, no one will know that they went to me, or to that address even. 10 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000 And no one will know how many coins you sent. So it's different from Bitcoin. 11 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,000 The cryptography is much more ambitious, and it's much more complicated. 12 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:41,000 And in fact, famously, like two weeks ago or something, there was this bug in the thing that they found, which was a Z address. 13 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,000 It was interesting that they were the ones to find their own bug, and that it was not. 14 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,000 But one thing is, it's so private, people don't know. 15 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Because it's so private. 16 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 So they don't know, maybe someone printed 10,000 extra coins, and then they will know. 17 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 And you wouldn't kind of know until it was too late. 18 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Like, you'd say, oh, they went on Coinbase and they sold 800 million coins. 19 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 And then people would be like, oh, I guess there was an inflation bug. 20 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,000 Someone's stealing someone else's coin. 21 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 So they steal your coins and sell them on Coinbase using a bug. 22 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,000 It's not until later you realize, oh, my coins were... 23 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,000 Double spend or something, right? 24 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Because that was the problem with the zero knowledge part of it, right? 25 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,000 I think it's still very new to take zero knowledge overall. 26 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,000 But I think, you know, we won't... 27 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,000 If we don't try things, if people then try them, we will never find the bug. 28 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,000 So bugs are a normal part of software, and they do happen. 29 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,000 And they happened in Bitcoin a few times, in fact. 30 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,000 So that's basically... 31 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Z-side is basically just L2 that has the Z-address technology. 32 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,000 So if you really cared about privacy, you could use that. 33 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Option. 34 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Right, okay. 35 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,000 How far are you on that? 36 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,000 Are you just going to fork Zcash and bring it on to DriveChain? 37 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,000 Is that the plan? 38 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:39,000 The Zcash people were nice enough to tidy up their code into these nice things called Rust crates. 39 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,000 And so now it's very modular, which is very, very, very impressive from a... 40 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Like readability, maintainability, whatever technical point. 41 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:56,000 But they made it very easy to just take the Orchard Rust crate off the shelf and plug it in. 42 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:03,000 Which is to their credit, but also some would say very impolite of me to just take maybe without asking. 43 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,000 You know, maybe... 44 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,000 See, here's the thing. 45 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000 There's no guarantee that any of this stuff will be popular or even work or whatever. 46 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,000 So maybe way down the line, we could throw a Zcash appreciation party or something. 47 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,000 But for now, this is all just like square one getting off the ground. 48 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:29,000 So yeah, that's the actual detail, is that they already modularized it and they tidied it up. 49 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,000 And so it was quite easy to... 50 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Now, remember, when we say fork, we're talking like sometimes there's code fork. 51 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,000 This is not what we're doing. 52 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,000 We're not doing either a fork or the blockchain fork. 53 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,000 We just take... 54 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,000 They just have the code and we just download it and move it over and plug it in. 55 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,000 It's actually quite a lot of... 56 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:56,000 Even despite the crate, it's quite a lot of work to get the wallet and stuff to understand what's happening and that you have more money now and stuff. 57 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,000 So it still was a little bit of work. 58 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,000 But mostly they did all this like PhD level cryptography for like years and years. 59 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,000 Yeah, I do appreciate all the work they've done. 60 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,000 So Truthcoin, I think, obviously, as you said, it's more of an experimental thing. 61 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Then there is obviously BitAsset, BitName, Photon, right? 62 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,000 They're all... 63 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Of course, all of them will be launched on day one. 64 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:31,000 But are you focused on one or two that you think will bring the adoption slash more people using those drivechains? 65 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:43,000 Well, I think a good option if you want people who actually care about the mission and they care about the Cypherpunk idea. 66 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,000 So I think the privacy one would help, Zside. 67 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,000 People would actually adopt for that. 68 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000 And especially because it's a much stronger version of privacy than you can get in Bitcoin. 69 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Bitcoin is like, you know, you just have like CoinJoin. 70 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000 You have like these really bad options that are not that good. 71 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Thunder is for scaling, but it only matters if the network is really, really popular. 72 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000 So of course, if it's not, then it wouldn't matter until that point. 73 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,000 I do think BitNames, which is based on Namecoin that we discussed. 74 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,000 I think the whole name idea is like much, much better than people realize. 75 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,000 And part of it is like when you go on YouTube and stuff, people have to put... 76 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,000 They have to say, here's our YouTube, here's our Instagram, here's our whatever. 77 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,000 And some of them are kind of different from each other. 78 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,000 So you have to like say, oh, here's my... 79 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,000 And then you have impersonators. 80 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:44,000 You have accounts being shadow banned or just deactivated or closed down or even seized by the government. 81 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:53,000 And then you have stuff like when someone will call and trick a person and they'll say, oh, this is Coinbase support. 82 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,000 You know, whatever, log in. 83 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 And then they steal the Coinbase login and drain their... 84 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,000 So you think you're talking to Coinbase, but you're actually talking to... 85 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:08,000 So all of this would go away in a world that has either BitNames or Namecoin because each person... 86 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,000 You have like your logins, like the internet. 87 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,000 So you would just have like XXIM or whatever. 88 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,000 You just have XXIM.Bit or whatever you want it to be. 89 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:23,000 And then whenever people want to interact with you over Instagram, over Telegram, if they wanted to send you money, 90 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 it would just be completely based off of the one name. 91 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,000 And that's the utopian vision. 92 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,000 The other thing is like, well, right now, if you want to have your own site, you want to XXIM.com. 93 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,000 You have to go, you have to buy it and then you have to pay every year. 94 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:44,000 Whereas kind of like in the blockchain world, you, of course, you pay a transaction fee, but you don't really have to renew it every year. 95 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Like you own it, assuming you own your Bitcoin. 96 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,000 And then like this hasn't happened in a while, thanks to the people at Let's Encrypt and other places. 97 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,000 But it used to be the case that if you wanted to have like HTTPS, like if you want to have encryption, 98 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,000 which was like basically mandatory, you had to pay like an extra $5 like a month. 99 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Like back in the day, this is a long time ago. 100 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,000 It's like 10, 15 years ago. 101 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:11,000 But even that was kind of strange because if you could prove you own the name cryptographically, 102 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,000 then why can't you just prove everything cryptography? 103 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,000 So the point is the name thing I think could be really big. 104 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,000 And I think we do live in a world with lots of spam. 105 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,000 We live in a world with lots of... 106 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,000 It's more practical, right? 107 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,000 It seems it's more practical and it's got more usability to normal people. 108 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Yeah, I think in particular, anyone who gets too much spam, 109 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,000 like I think there could be a story where celebrities actually adopt it. 110 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,000 I know it sounds crazy because normally they are not like nerdy types. 111 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,000 But they have to deal with a lot of like stalkers and they want to have a relationship with their fans. 112 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,000 See, because there's the intermediaries too. 113 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,000 So if you're really, really big, you're like Taylor Swift or something, 114 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,000 you're always kind of worrying about like Ticketmaster or YouTube. 115 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000 They're in between you and your fans and they're taking money. 116 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,000 And also YouTube can pull the plug on you at any time. 117 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,000 So they are kind of thinking like, 118 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000 can I have some way of directly connecting with like... 119 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,000 And people have like mailing lists and stuff. 120 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,000 But these are kind of like not that great because no one checks their email. 121 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,000 So you could have a different thing where you could pay like $2,000 to message Taylor Swift or whatever. 122 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,000 And some people would do that. Not a lot of people would. 123 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,000 But the whole point is it's a supply and demand situation where then Taylor Swift would be able to read some of these messages. 124 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,000 There wouldn't be too many messages. 125 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000 There would be a few you could read and maybe reply to them. 126 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 And so we each have this thing where the spam is mediated by payment. 127 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,000 And then when we're talking, someone could be like, 128 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,000 oh, you owe me $20 for the pizza. 129 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,000 You just send it right in the thing. 130 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,000 You don't have to like, oh... 131 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,000 And then like all kinds of terrible stuff I think happens now that we'll just roll our eyes at in the future. 132 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,000 Like it's very common. I don't know about you, 133 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000 but sometimes I get like an email where someone will say, 134 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,000 pay this bill or something. 135 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,000 So then you have to open the email. 136 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Then you have to click the link. 137 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,000 Then when you get to the link, it's like you have the username and password. 138 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,000 You have to log in and you're like, I don't remember what my username and password is for this obscure thing. 139 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,000 You got to figure out, oh, do I have... 140 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,000 How many Etsy accounts did I have anyway? 141 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 And then you're like, okay. 142 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Then you log in. 143 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,000 Then you have to pay the bill. 144 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,000 You have to type in like your name, your address. 145 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,000 This is taking like, you know, a long time. 146 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,000 It's literally taking like five to 10 minutes, maybe more, 147 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,000 just to do it if you were fully on board with just... 148 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,000 So instead, why? 149 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Because think about it. 150 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 If they're sending you email, 151 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,000 it's already cryptographically to some extent, 152 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,000 like you logged in to read the email. 153 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,000 They sent it from their email. 154 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,000 So to some extent, you already have like a cryptographic tunnel between you. 155 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,000 Why not just send... 156 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000 You just reply to the email. 157 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,000 It was like, send $20. 158 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,000 And it would just go across. 159 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000 So all that stuff, I think, is definitely possible. 160 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,000 And that would appeal to like elites in society. 161 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,000 And then once they like it, once the elites like it, 162 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,000 it will rapidly filter down. 163 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000 So I think that that could happen. 164 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,000 I'm not sure about that. 165 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,000 For BitAssets, it's like you just have USDT. 166 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000 You have just a version of USDT there. 167 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000 That like takes care of itself. 168 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Because people love stable coins. 169 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,000 It's a huge product market fit situation. 170 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,000 So that's like a BitAss. 171 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,000 Is it going to be the bridge version of USDT? 172 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,000 Or are you going to have the actual... 173 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,000 What is the right word I'm looking for? 174 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,000 The real USDT that's like from Tether? 175 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,000 You mean like that's backed by Tether? 176 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Backed by Tether, yeah. 177 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,000 That's a very good question. 178 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000 But I think it doesn't actually matter. 179 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Because think about it like this. 180 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,000 You could have your own thing. 181 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,000 Either Tether will like support BitAssets and integrate with it. 182 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,000 But if they don't, you can just have another USDT. 183 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000 You have USDT-15 or something. 184 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,000 And then it's backed by USDT. 185 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,000 So you can kind of make it work no matter what happens. 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,000 Well, I guess it's more like whose asset it is really. 187 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Because if you bridge it, 188 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000 you need to obviously work with someone and bridge it. 189 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,000 And they have their own issues if you're bridging it. 190 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,000 If you're bringing from third party, 191 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,000 how do you bring it, blah, blah, blah. 192 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 So there are some considerations there perhaps. 193 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,000 But I do agree as a whole. 194 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,000 I think once it's there, it becomes a usable asset. 195 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,000 But how do you get there is perhaps a different question. 196 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000 The prediction market thing is very ambitious as a piece of software. 197 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,000 And it sort of works now. 198 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:40,000 But it's so complicated that I shudder to think what bugs may be in there. 199 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,000 Because my standards are very, very high. 200 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,000 So this isn't just like poly market or whatever, first of all. 201 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,000 Because now the way this works is it's totally decentralized 202 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,000 for which questions are proposed. 203 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 And then the questions can combine to make markets of high dimension. 204 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,000 So you can say you bet on this and that. 205 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,000 Everything could be like a parlay of everything else to some extent. 206 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,000 And you can make a bet that says, 207 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:11,000 I'm only going to bet that if it's a cloudy day 208 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,000 and the Republican Party wins this election, 209 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,000 then GDP in the future will be. 210 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,000 So I have this absurdly ambitious. 211 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,000 In addition, you can bet on each of those things individually. 212 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,000 And it will all wash out and it will all sync up. 213 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:35,000 And then the resolution of the questions is also decentralized. 214 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000 So I have like a whole. 215 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,000 That's what Truthcoin, the original paper from like 2013. 216 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000 So I got my Twitter account name. 217 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,000 And so I got truthcoin.info, truthcoin.com. 218 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,000 That was what that was about is the decentralized Oracle problem. 219 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,000 So that's like its own complicated thing to explain how that works. 220 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 And so the whole thing is completely like decentralized. 221 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,000 So I'm going to try to make that a success. 222 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000 But I don't know if I will succeed. 223 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Although, again, I invented all this stuff like in 2013. 224 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Kind of from scratch. 225 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000 I was the original prediction market guy, in fact. 226 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000 And a lot of these other projects were like way downstream 227 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000 of what I had already done in 2012, 2013, 2014. 228 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000 This is like all this prediction market stuff. 229 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000 And then now we do see, you know, you see like Caoshi and Polymarket. 230 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:30,000 You can see like the brand of the prediction market has soared. 231 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,000 And I think that does validate. 232 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000 It just yet further validates. 233 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,000 It says that I must be on to something because I'm like always early. 234 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,000 I'm always really early to these really great ideas. 235 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,000 So I'm going to try to make that a success. 236 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000 I think there is a good niche. 237 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:50,000 The decentralized version can maybe ask questions that the like a Polymarket cannot. 238 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,000 And then even Polymarket, it does seem like there will be a, you know, 239 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,000 this is to say the pendulum swings back and forth where, OK, 240 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000 they did really, really well until 2024. 241 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,000 But now people are asking questions about insider trading, regulation, etc. 242 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,000 And I think that they may actually be going through a period of harassment 243 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000 by the government or something you might call regulation or I think, 244 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,000 which I think will be tough for them already. 245 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,000 I think maybe you need to like to have ways of figuring out like what country you're in, 246 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,000 even if you have a VPN. 247 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,000 I think it's like so it may be hard for them to do like bet on all the different things 248 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,000 that people may want to use prediction market for, 249 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,000 whereas the decentralized software wouldn't have any of those limitations. 250 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000 So I think that that so I think that so yeah, 251 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,000 or maybe no one will ever use any of this stuff. 252 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000 But that's the plan is to try those things. 253 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, 254 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,000 each of these things that you're doing on layer two and layer one. 255 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,000 I mean, you know, there are very complex things. Right. 256 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,000 I must say it's not, you know, each of these drive chains, 257 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,000 even though you have all these things in your mind, 258 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,000 I think eventually if they become successful, I mean, this is my take. 259 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 You might actually have to get guys to run it individually as individual product 260 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,000 because these are, you know, really serious products in itself. Right. 261 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Each of them that you're mentioning. Right. So. 262 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,000 But yeah, I think kudos to you, obviously. 263 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,000 I mean, five million dollars isn't a lot. 264 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,000 I know. 265 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,000 I think because I prefer to be able to offer the lower you raise, 266 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,000 the more ROI you can get. 267 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,000 That's it's good to raise a little bit, you know, waste not right. 268 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Like a tiny little bit. And so that's good. 269 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,000 I think, yeah, I'm baffled by what other people do. 270 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Like when they, you know, like certain whatever blocks, 271 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,000 rumors raise hundreds of millions of dollars. 272 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,000 As far as I can tell, they don't produce anything. 273 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:55,000 And lightning labs like in the hundreds million dollar ballpark. 274 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000 I do think at a certain point becomes a significant distraction 275 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,000 and it's very bad for productivity 276 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,000 because then people start squabbling over the treasury. 277 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,000 And so I think it's been if this succeeds, 278 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,000 there's no guarantee that any of this will succeed. 279 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,000 I would put this on the list of how we kept it successful, 280 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,000 which is that raising a small amount because you have to keep, 281 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000 you have to kind of keep the team together and the investors 282 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,000 for like a few years. 283 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000 You know what I mean? You have to keep everyone cooperative. 284 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,000 And I think they just wouldn't do that if you raise a hundred million dollars. 285 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,000 And then it's like, why aren't we all just on a beach somewhere? 286 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,000 Like, why aren't we, why are we doing it? 287 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,000 I think it's a balance, right? 288 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,000 It's a balance of having the right people, the right amount of people, 289 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000 the right amount of productivity that needs to go into it. 290 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Right. I think that's the balance that one has to find. 291 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Right. 292 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,000 I mean, Satoshi raised no money and it has like a negative raise in a way. 293 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,000 He put all our time in. 294 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,000 So it's like there's kind of almost a correlation. 295 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,000 Like the more money you raise, the worse the project ends up being. 296 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Almost. I mean, it's hard to say. 297 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000 But yeah, you do hear about these projects. 298 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,000 Isn't like Aptos or what? I don't really remember any of this, 299 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,000 but like, don't they raise, 300 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,000 I heard someone raise like $250 million or something 301 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,000 and Stacks raised like $100 million. 302 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,000 And it's like, yeah, 303 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,000 it's almost like a guarantee that it won't go anywhere. 304 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,000 It's weird. 305 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000 Obviously, hard folk is going to be here, right? 306 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,000 People are going to get their free coins. 307 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000 And I'm sure a lot of people, 308 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,000 perhaps they're not talking to you, 309 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,000 but they're excited to get a new coin after nine years, right? 310 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,000 After Bitcoin Cash, that era in 2017. 311 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,000 So I wanted to get into, you know, 312 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,000 how do people claim this e-cash when it comes out in August? 313 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000 Well, yeah. 314 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,000 The easiest way would be to download our software 315 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,000 and type in your private key. 316 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,000 But I would say that, of course, 317 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,000 people should hesitate to do that 318 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,000 because that's also what someone would say 319 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,000 if they were trying to steal your Bitcoin. 320 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,000 So what you should really do is 321 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,000 just kind of like, you know, 322 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000 keep your eye on it and look around 323 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,000 and have a friend go first, you know, 324 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000 with like a $200 private key. 325 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,000 And make sure that that works. 326 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,000 And don't take my word for it necessarily. 327 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,000 So that's what you should like, take your time. 328 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000 And but don't, you know, 329 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000 keep in mind if you do any transacting in BTC, 330 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,000 the transactions probably will be replayed. 331 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,000 So both the coins will be moving around 332 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,000 and they'll be kind of like synchronized. 333 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000 So I would do that. 334 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000 Yeah, I would like research the issues. 335 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,000 But yeah, our software, 336 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,000 we're going to put out a splitting tool 337 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,000 and we're also going to do like a few like a, 338 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,000 like what you might call like a rehearsal 339 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,000 or like a dry run. 340 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000 We're going to do like a fork like before the fork 341 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,000 that is not like, 342 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,000 it's designed to just be replaced. 343 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,000 So but it will like let everyone figure out, 344 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,000 oh, this is what I, 345 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000 so that to minimize the amount of regret people have. 346 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000 We'll do that. 347 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,000 I think we may do that. 348 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000 I might even want to do that. 349 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,000 It depends on how the schedule lines up. 350 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,000 But if we, 351 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,000 if we do that and it's clear that people are really confused, 352 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,000 we may want to like, 353 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,000 like even delay, 354 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,000 like not because we have to delay, 355 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,000 but maybe as an education thing. 356 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,000 I've always said if we do a delay, 357 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,000 we're so far, 358 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000 we're still kind of on schedule and it's the end of August. 359 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,000 So we kind of have two months still. 360 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,000 But if I always say if we do a delay, 361 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,000 we'll do like one big delay 362 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,000 because I wouldn't want to be like, 363 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,000 oh, we'll push it back a week, 364 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,000 but like one delay will be a really big delay. 365 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,000 If it is, 366 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,000 it will just be based on like an education thing, 367 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000 I think, 368 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,000 which might be an important reason to do. 369 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,000 But yeah, 370 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000 we'll have the rehearsal fork. 371 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,000 We have the software that people can try now. 372 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,000 So you can go to ecash.com slash download. 373 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000 Check it out. 374 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,000 With the L2L Signet coins, 375 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000 they're fake coins. 376 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,000 So the you can just play around with them. 377 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000 And I think that that would at least get you familiar with the, 378 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,000 you would know that you have the right software 379 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,000 and you would know that you have the right, 380 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,000 how to use the software. 381 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,000 So that those things would help. 382 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,000 That's for the non-custodial wallet, right? 383 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,000 What about the exchanges? 384 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,000 If people hold their Bitcoin on exchange, 385 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000 will they be getting the airdrop or? 386 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,000 Well, I mean, 387 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,000 it's kind of up to them because the exchange, 388 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,000 from the point of view of the Bitcoin network, 389 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,000 the exchange is the true owner of the coins. 390 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,000 And so they will get all the coins. 391 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,000 I would certainly hope that they would give them to, 392 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,000 that's another thing is like in the time leading up to the fork, 393 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000 we plan to like say, tell everyone how, 394 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,000 by the way, take your coins off the exchanges, 395 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,000 unless it's this list of exchanges that is, 396 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000 that has said that they will credit you. 397 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,000 I'm hoping that it will be easy for them to credit 398 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,000 because the L1, 399 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,000 even if they don't support any of the L2s, 400 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,000 which I think could be wise, 401 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,000 from the point of view of the exchange, 402 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,000 the L1 is just like a slightly different version of Bitcoin core 403 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000 with like a different name. 404 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,000 So it should be very easy for them to just like copy, 405 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,000 paste their Bitcoin core, like set up, 406 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,000 to have e-cash and then just say, 407 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000 you know, okay, we'll credit everyone with. 408 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:13,000 So it should be easy for them to do. 409 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000 There's no guarantee that they will do it, 410 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000 but if minimizing the cost to them is a. 411 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Yeah, but there's a challenge, no? 412 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,000 They have to support you. 413 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,000 They have to list that point 414 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,000 because by saying that they will give it to you, 415 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,000 because that's for some exchanges, 416 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,000 they charge projects. 417 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,000 You know, there's a cost to it. 418 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000 Yes. 419 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,000 Here's an interesting thing that I didn't know until recently, 420 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000 which is that, okay, so you're right. 421 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,000 This is another thing I think has changed over time, 422 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,000 which is like getting listed on the exchange, 423 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000 getting listed. 424 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,000 That was like a really, really big deal, 425 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,000 like really, really important. 426 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000 I think it's fallen in importance 427 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000 by like almost a factor of 100 428 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,000 or maybe more, 429 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000 because now, like for example, 430 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,000 now if you just go on like whatever, 431 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,000 like you have like this, 432 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,000 because the swap changed now and these things, 433 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000 you can, so like back when I was using an exchange. 434 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000 So first of all, there was like exchanges. 435 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000 They used to be like Mt. Gox. 436 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000 It used to be a long period of time 437 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000 where all these exchanges were going bankrupt. 438 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,000 And then they have the modern period, 439 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,000 like the Coinbase Kraken. 440 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000 I don't know what I would call it, 441 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000 the modern period, but it was like, 442 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000 this is like from 2016. 443 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000 So it hasn't changed much. 444 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Yeah, it still happens. 445 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000 And in fact, I'm absolutely certain 446 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000 that these exchanges get hacked all the time 447 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,000 and they steal the money. 448 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,000 And then the corporation just pays people out 449 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000 out of their profits. 450 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,000 They just don't tell anyone. 451 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000 Just before, they would be like, 452 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,000 oh, we got hacked or something. 453 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,000 But the point is, 454 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,000 there was a period of time where you was like, 455 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,000 okay, you need to hold up your driver's license. 456 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,000 You need to take a photo. 457 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,000 You need to like take a photo 458 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,000 with the number there. 459 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,000 And you need to write, 460 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000 this is only for use at Kraken 461 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,000 and hold up like your passport. 462 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,000 It used to have all this long process 463 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000 with lots of paperwork. 464 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000 And now you can just download 465 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,000 many different apps on your phone. 466 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000 No ID, no nothing. 467 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,000 You download, you can swap $50,000, $200,000 468 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,000 with just the change now swap. 469 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,000 And they just do it. 470 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,000 It's fly by night. 471 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,000 And this is very common 472 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000 in like Bitcoin.com wallet 473 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,000 and there's many mobile wallets 474 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000 where the exchange thing 475 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,000 is just like some server somewhere. 476 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,000 And the front end, 477 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000 I'm pretty sure like whatever, 478 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,000 like edge wallet, cake wallet, 479 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,000 like all these, like these are like, 480 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000 so it's switched from being 481 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,000 long approval process involving your passport 482 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,000 and possibly getting rejected 483 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000 and like logging in with your email. 484 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,000 It's switched from all that 485 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,000 to download this app 486 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,000 or if you already have the app, 487 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,000 if you already have like whatever, 488 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,000 you already have it. 489 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,000 And then just click like 490 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000 buy or swap in the app. 491 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000 And these, it will do huge amounts 492 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,000 basically instantly. 493 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000 And of course it charges a fee. 494 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,000 But every exchange always charged a fee. 495 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000 So I kind of think like this, 496 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,000 I know you're right to point out 497 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,000 that people would always, 498 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,000 they would be like, oh yeah, 499 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000 if you want us to list the coin, 500 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,000 we charge $100,000 or whatever. 501 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,000 It is like a huge amount of money 502 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,000 or more and more sometimes. 503 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000 And you have to go through our prime. 504 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,000 We maybe will reject you or something. 505 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,000 I think that that is not, 506 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,000 that's still important, 507 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,000 but I think it's actually like plummeted. 508 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,000 And now I think it actually 509 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,000 doesn't even matter that much. 510 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,000 And one other thing is that USDT, 511 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,000 I remember a time when USDT was not that big, 512 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,000 which was like three, 513 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,000 four years ago or something. 514 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Because like when did it start 515 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,000 to get really, really big? 516 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,000 I don't remember. 517 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000 It's always funny. 518 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,000 I think 2020 it really took off 519 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,000 post 2020 and really six years. 520 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000 There were always the tether truthers 521 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,000 who are always, those are funny people, 522 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,000 you know, who say like this, 523 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,000 the whole industry is fake 524 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,000 and it's all tether. 525 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,000 That's just like propping up 526 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000 the price of everything. 527 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,000 And this is funny. 528 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,000 Those people are, 529 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,000 the tether truthers. 530 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,000 So they've always been around. 531 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Tether has been around. 532 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,000 Tether was originally a Bitcoin project. 533 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,000 It was originally Omnicoin 534 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,000 and then it was Mastercoin. 535 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,000 So it's this old Bitcoin project actually. 536 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000 But it was not big. 537 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,000 I remember a time I went to Hong Kong 538 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,000 and it was like 539 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,000 everyone there was using USDT. 540 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,000 And they were just obsessed. 541 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000 They were absolutely obsessed with it. 542 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,000 And I just thought this came out of nowhere. 543 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000 And Tether is now like, 544 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,000 the top company per employee 545 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,000 in the world, 546 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,000 in all of human history. 547 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,000 They just have this giant stack of money 548 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,000 that they don't use. 549 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,000 They have invested 15% of it 550 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,000 in bonds or something. 551 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,000 They just have to keep the software running. 552 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000 And they have 150 employees or something. 553 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000 And no one even redeems. 554 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,000 And someone estimated that $7 billion 555 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,000 worth of USDT, 556 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000 someone just lost it. 557 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,000 The users don't even have the private keys. 558 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,000 It's just gone. 559 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,000 It's not a model ever invented by anyone. 560 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,000 So the point is, 561 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000 but the reason I bring this up is because 562 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,000 everyone can now move USDT around 563 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000 on their phone already. 564 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000 So they've already listed that. 565 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000 It's too late. 566 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,000 It's been listed everywhere, 567 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,000 the USDT part. 568 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,000 And you can swap USDT 569 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,000 for a new coin pretty easily. 570 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,000 So it's almost like this has changed completely. 571 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:44,000 But yeah, I agree. 572 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000 This used to be the first thing 573 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000 on everyone's mind is 574 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,000 what kind of future will I have? 575 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000 And so, 576 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000 but I think that it's actually changed a lot. 577 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,000 I was myself surprised 578 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000 when I looked into it. 579 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000 I was like, wow, this actually matters 580 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000 about 1% as much as it mattered, 581 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000 or maybe even less, 582 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000 maybe half a percent. 583 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000 Does it matter in 2019 or something? 584 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,000 Yeah, I think the big ones 585 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000 still are going to obviously, 586 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000 you know, talk to you. 587 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,000 Obviously, they want to know the project. 588 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,000 As you say, it's sort of become 589 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,000 a commodity in a way. 590 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,000 There's a lot of exchanges will list you 591 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000 right away from the get-go 592 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,000 because, you know, you're coming out 593 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,000 with all the hype and everything. 594 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000 And then obviously the big ones will be there. 595 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,000 They probably have their own business strategy. 596 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,000 But either way, look, all the best 597 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,000 with everything.