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Hi, welcome to Coinspice Live. I'm your host, Peter Ryan.

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We've got a great show for tonight.

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We are talking to Paul Sztorc, the Chief Scientist at Truthcoin, about the theory of
memes.

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And if you thought memes were just about pepes and wojacks, we've got another thing
coming.

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Then we've got Mikeinspace doing what he always does, giving us that reliable, that
necessary daily mempool report.

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So he dutifully reports in and gives us those details.

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We also have some great announcements of product launches, new things that are going
on at Coinspice, as well as what you folks got to say.

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We have the chat over there. People are chatting away, getting things off.

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Throw some peppers in there, make yourself heard.

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Make sure to never miss a Coinspice Live episode or any videos that we do.

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Make sure to go to our website. Hit everything that you need to to follow us on
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And our brand new email newsletter. You don't want to miss that.

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So we got some great stuff coming up.

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We're going to start right off with talking about Hong Kong and how crypto worked
its way into that.

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So let's cut to what some Hong Kongers think about what's going on.

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What are your thoughts, before I let you go here, on things like the protest and the
trade war and their overall impact on cryptocurrency usage or adoption?

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I feel like China has been a big part of cryptocurrency for a long time.

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If not, it's probably a huge portion of the entire cryptocurrency economy.

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And the reason for that is very simple.

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Because the Chinese, when they make the money or they have the money, they want to
be free.

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And obviously, China wants to track that money and not have that money leave the
country.

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So ultimately, whatever China does, and they've tried to do a lot of things to
Bitcoin.

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Bitcoin remains a huge, highly desirable asset in China because it can be used to
avoid the Chinese government, basically.

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Sorry about that.

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The mic is back on.

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We had a little technical issue there.

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And you just heard C. Edward Kelso, our editor-in-chief of Coinspice, be on a
podcast with a Hong Kong protester.

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Not just somebody that is on the ground protesting, but someone that's into Bitcoin
and shows us what the intersection of crypto is and freedom with the whole China and
BCH and Bitcoin and wider cryptocurrency world.

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And that's a great podcast for you guys to check out.

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But what we're going to do is really explore what makes Hong Kong and China
interesting when it comes to crypto.

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And so we look at it, and Hong Kong is seen as the bastion for economic free trade,
as this shining island city on a hill when it comes to the international commerce.

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And China as a mainland government is viewed as sort of the oppressing big state
that's coming in and overreaching.

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And the dynamic that's going on there is really heating up, and the tensions are
really coming to a head.

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And we're seeing that the little guy, Hong Kong in this case, is needing to find
ways to exercise more freedom, exercise more ability to get past the people that are
trying to censor their way of life.

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In terms of, you know, the specific issue that kind of gave rise to all this is that
the Chinese mainland wanted to create some more extradition policies within Hong
Kong that would bring people into the mainland.

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And so that kicked us all off.

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And so this was about people saying, oh, no, you just can't come in and start
rewriting rules and start sort of taking the liberties that the Hong Kongers have
for a long time thought they've had, you know, gone in an instant.

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And so that's expanded as the protests go on to what is the right of free speech?

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What is the right for people to exercise their dissent?

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What is the right for people to assembly in the public square and actually
collectivize and come together to have sort of one voice?

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And in all this, we see that cryptocurrency is an interesting concept that comes in.

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One notable example was that people were not using their digital traditional payment
processors in Hong Kong or for that matter, mechanisms to interact with the
transportation system.

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So there was a story that came out about how Hong Kongers weren't using their
digital payment system with the subway because they didn't want their identities
linked to their transportation pathways.

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Because then it would indicate on this day and this time you are traveling to these
places.

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And thus we can put together from a government overseer monitoring all this data
that you were probably a protester and we should probably, you know, investigate
you.

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So you have that element where people were turning away from the traditional payment
mechanisms to look for alternatives.

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And while cryptocurrency wasn't a way that they could directly, you know, forego
that and substitute, it does present an ability for people to actually come in and
say we don't actually need to use the trad systems.

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We can use these alternatives that the government really can't control one way or
the other what we do with it.

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They can't just shut our account down.

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They can't just say, you know, because you're a protester, you can no longer
transact.

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And for that matter, if certain privacy precautions are taken, they can't actually
track, you know, what you're doing.

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So this is where crypto comes in and the general ethos of crypto too outside of
these specific examples where crypto is about freedom.

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Crypto is about censorship resistance, about being able to, you know, exercise your,
you know, right to money, right to transact.

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And so when we look at Hong Kong as a wider touchstone for how we should be thinking
about cryptocurrency, we should think about it in terms of, you know, this is where
the front lines of cryptocurrency is.

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It's not institutional. It's not Silicon Valley. It is not any of these places in
New York on Wall Street where we need to somehow convince these existing players
that wrecked us during the 08 crisis that, oh, they're going to now pile into
Bitcoin and those are going to be the saviors.

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The front lines of crypto where it really matters, it's Hong Kong. It's the people
with umbrellas. It's the people with face masks, the people getting tear gassed.

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It's also the people that are in Venezuela that are getting their lights shut out
right now.

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These are the places where crypto matters. And if crypto can come in and actually
help these people and actually make a difference, you know, that's why we're all
here and that's why we all get out of bed in the morning.

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And so now I want to turn to a specific example of how cryptocurrency really came in
to make a difference.

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And right now I have a Forbes article written by Roger Hwang where he talks about
how Bitcoin cash was used to actually help protesters in various ways.

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So we had some recent protests going on, a lot of people coming out, getting out
there, seeing what's going on.

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And a very generous response happened where a company called Genesis Block
coordinated some action that provided Hong Kong protesters with water bottles and
umbrellas.

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And umbrellas are important because they're actually the symbol of sort of another
wider protest movement that was going on.

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So the umbrella symbol is very important. And those were funded by international
Bitcoin cash donations.

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And what was actually really cool, as much as sort of crowdsourcing payments to
distribute water bottles and umbrellas out to people was very valuable.

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At the same time, this was the really cool part. The bottles had a QR code that
allowed recipients to donate more Bitcoin cash in order to fund further supplies for
peaceful protesters.

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So you can see here, here's the image of the water bottle. You can see a QR code
there, donate BCH.

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This is how cryptocurrencies were meant to be used. This is exactly how it should be
done.

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People are on the ground, they're drinking water, they're rubbing tear gas out of
their eyes, and they see that this water bottle was provided for them.

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They can scan that QR code when they're done. They can actually help keep that
feedback loop going to help crowdsource more and more donations in so that more of
these water bottles can actually get out there for the next day of protesting to
help the next protester.

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So this is really cool that we actually see this on the ground, that people are
actually getting direct value.

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As we continue down this article, they reference some data. They talk about Bitcoin
ATMs, crypto ATMs, what actually happened there.

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What was interesting was actual on-the-ground ATM usage didn't actually pick up. It
actually declined a bit during all these protests.

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But what did happen was exchanges that were online actually, like ThaiBit here, they
showed premiums for Hong Kong dollars when people are buying.

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So this actually did show in some vector an increase in cryptocurrency interest.

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But again, while there's sort of countervailing forces of there was sort of a
downtick in the ATMs, but an uptick in sort of these online purchases here.

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Again, what really matters is, well, were people actually using this and what were
they using it for?

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And if we take this back to, well, they were using it for these water bottles and
these umbrellas and they were actually helping people rather than number go up.

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This is what matters. And so I hope people check this article out. I hope people
check out the wider movement that's going on in Hong Kong.

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And if you're feeling up to it, maybe throw a little Bitcoin cash to these people to
make sure that they can feel a lot better.

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On top of that, we referenced at the start of the show, a podcast, a scene from that
podcast with C. Edward Kelso, our editor in chief.

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He's running this podcast over here on Coinspice. He sat down with a Hong Kong
Bitcoiner to talk about all things that are going on with the protests in the
intersection of cryptocurrency.

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Definitely check that out. It's a long in-depth look into what's going on. Great
show. Definitely check it out.

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And now return it. So that's what's going on in Hong Kong, guys.

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So what's going on in the chat, everybody? What do you think of Hong Kong? Let me
see some reaction from you guys over there.

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If anybody wants to make their opinion heard, please hit up the donation address
right there. You can find it in the description.

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Your message will appear right above my head and you'll be part of the show.

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Yeah, guys. So on top of that, I want to recommend everybody check out a lot of cool
things that Coinspice has going on.

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We're going to cut to a quick commercial break, then be back with some more of our
segments.

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And then I'm going to tell you a little bit more about those promotions.

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So sit right there and I'll be right back.

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And Mike, you're on the air.

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Mike.

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Take off your headphones.

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Back to you, Peter.

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All right. Thank you, Mike. Always giving us valuable information.

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Everybody can't get through the day without it.

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All right. All right. So again, what do you guys think about the Hong Kong protest?
Let me see what's going on in the chat.

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While you do that, I'm going to tell you about one of the commercials you just saw.

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Coinspice has a new product launch. Yes, a new product launch. Not just T-shirts,
not just spicy memes, but some awesome socks.

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And we had our beautiful model debut them in that video you just saw.

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But they're not just female socks. We also have male version of the socks, too.

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So don't feel that you're left out. You can get your spicy socks as well.

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But some of you might not have to pay for it because guess what, guys?

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Guess what, guys? I'm going to show you. I'm going to give you a little scoop here.

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We're going to move over and you're going to get the scoop.

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If you go to this tweet right here. One second. Let's zoom on in.

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If you go to this tweet, we got a free sock giveaway contest.

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But to do it, guys, you have to retweet and like this post that I'm showing you
right now.

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You can go to our feed. You can go to our at Coinspice Twitter. Find it.

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It's also going to be posted in the chat. Follow our account. We need this so we can
DM you if you win.

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And after a few days, we'll randomly choose three winners to get a free pair of
spicy socks.

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The socks come in all sizes again and they are for male and females.

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So if you do this, you know, some of you, if you really want to, you can go out
there.

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You can pay because we accept cryptocurrency and, you know, use cryptocurrency to
your heart's desire.

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But you can actually get these for free and walk around and have that spicy feeling
on your feet at all times.

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So make sure you do that. Go there. Like the tweet. Retweet the tweet.

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And make sure to follow us so we can DM you if you win and you'll get your own pair
of spicy socks.

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So everybody, please go and do that. Definitely check that out.

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And, you know, maybe if you're out, you can pull up your pant leg or if you're
walking around barefoot and show off that you're spicy.

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On top of that, guys, we also have our weekly dankest meme of the week.

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Here's the post. You can also find it there. We're also going to throw it in the
chat.

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Please go there. Post some dank memes.

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The winner of that will be shown at the end of tonight's show.

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And, you know, there's some stiff competition that's been going through the past
weeks.

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You're going to have to bring your A-game. Definitely go there.

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You know, whip out some MS Paint, some Adobe Photoshop. Really put some muscle into
it.

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And throw some dank memes.

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So everybody, go do that. Go to the sock tweet. Go to the dank meme tweet.

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Check all those out.

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On top of that, guys, I'm going to give one more shill for what Coinspice is doing.

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So if we can just go back quickly.

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We have our newsletter that brings you spicy content once a week

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that you can't get anywhere else in our feed, in our communications.

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00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:56,166
We post exclusive content there, like from our editor-in-chief, C. Edward Kelso, his
spicy take.

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00:25:56,166 --> 00:26:01,166
Go to our website. Jump in there. Subscribe.

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00:26:01,166 --> 00:26:04,166
Check out all that good stuff. Please do.

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00:26:05,166 --> 00:26:10,166
And you'll get a spicy email in your inbox every week.

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So go do that. Go hit the tweets up. Go hit up our newsletter.

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Definitely increase the amount of Coinspice in your life.

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All right. All right.

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So now, guys.

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All right. So we are now going to the main event of the night.

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We have our interview with Paul Sztorc, the chief scientist at Truthcorn.

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He's talking to us about memes.

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There was a particular event, I'll get into that in a little bit,

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that kind of brought everyone's attention to memes.

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What are they for? Are they useless?

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They're probably not useless.

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We dive into that, explore what's going on,

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why memes matter, how they apply to crypto,

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and how do we use them to be more productive.

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So we're going to jump into that.

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Definitely post some questions like, what do you think about memes?

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Are they stupid? Are they valuable?

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Are they the most intellectual thing we could be doing with our time?

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Throw that in the chat.

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Make sure to tip us at tipbitcoin.cash.

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And you can have your message.

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If you really want to get out there,

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and you want to contribute to the intellectual discourse that Paul and I do,

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you can throw it up in there and be a third party.

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And you can pop up in the leaderboard as an honorary spicy tipper.

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So without further ado, here we go.

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Welcome. We are here with Paul Sztorc,

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the creator of Truthcoin, among other compelling projects.

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Paul, how are you doing?

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I'm doing great. How are you?

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Doing well, doing well.

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We are here to talk about memes.

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There was quite a controversy regarding memes this past weekend.

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For all that don't know,

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there was a conference going on in the BTC community

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where somebody proposed that they were the master of memes,

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giving a presentation about it.

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Twitter erupted in replying to that with their own set of memes,

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and it cascaded into more and more debauchery,

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resulting in corporate boycotts and blocking

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and all sorts of community outrage and ostracization.

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So now we're here,

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and we're here to sort of talk about why memes are important

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and why are they even more important in crypto potentially.

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So I want to turn the mic over to Paul here to give us,

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you know, just give us a summary of your general thesis on crypto.

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Wow, well, there's a lot to unpack there.

194
00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:55,166
I mean, yes, it was a truly inspired moment

195
00:28:55,166 --> 00:29:00,166
because Michael Goldstein gave a talk about memes

196
00:29:00,166 --> 00:29:04,166
that was then faithfully replicated in various forms,

197
00:29:04,166 --> 00:29:07,166
screenshots, transcripts,

198
00:29:07,166 --> 00:29:15,166
and it copied itself into many people's minds and computers,

199
00:29:15,166 --> 00:29:16,166
which was really something else.

200
00:29:16,166 --> 00:29:19,166
It was very sort of meta, and there's so many things at once.

201
00:29:19,166 --> 00:29:23,166
I mean, memes are very important.

202
00:29:23,166 --> 00:29:26,166
I think in the future,

203
00:29:26,166 --> 00:29:30,166
almost all mental health will revolve around memes,

204
00:29:30,166 --> 00:29:33,166
and I think that in the future,

205
00:29:33,166 --> 00:29:37,166
people will know more about meme hygiene,

206
00:29:37,166 --> 00:29:39,166
just like people in the past,

207
00:29:39,166 --> 00:29:43,166
they didn't know anything about having the drinking water get infected

208
00:29:43,166 --> 00:29:46,166
or even separating drinking water and sewage water,

209
00:29:46,166 --> 00:29:49,166
and they didn't know about washing their hands before eating

210
00:29:49,166 --> 00:29:53,166
or trying not to touch their face or their mouth.

211
00:29:53,166 --> 00:29:58,166
People didn't know about those things that we do today and quarantine.

212
00:29:58,166 --> 00:30:00,166
People didn't know these things in the past,

213
00:30:00,166 --> 00:30:06,166
and so replicating molecules called genes or infectious diseases,

214
00:30:06,166 --> 00:30:10,166
those genes spread through and wreaked havoc,

215
00:30:10,166 --> 00:30:15,166
but today we live in a world where we mostly have the genes under control,

216
00:30:15,166 --> 00:30:23,166
and the genes are more under control than the memes,

217
00:30:23,166 --> 00:30:26,166
and we do not yet know enough about meme hygiene,

218
00:30:26,166 --> 00:30:29,166
so it's time for everyone to try to learn together.

219
00:30:30,166 --> 00:30:31,166
Great.

220
00:30:31,166 --> 00:30:35,166
I think certain things like mass shootings, suicide,

221
00:30:35,166 --> 00:30:37,166
those things can be explained completely with memes.

222
00:30:37,166 --> 00:30:41,166
A meme is a piece of information that replicates,

223
00:30:41,166 --> 00:30:43,166
so it is like a gene,

224
00:30:43,166 --> 00:30:48,166
but it is an idea and a sort of behavior,

225
00:30:48,166 --> 00:30:52,166
like doing the wave in a stadium.

226
00:30:52,166 --> 00:30:54,166
Now, obviously, on the Internet,

227
00:30:54,166 --> 00:30:58,166
people have used the word meme narrowly to refer to funny images,

228
00:30:58,166 --> 00:31:01,166
but if you think of memes that way,

229
00:31:01,166 --> 00:31:05,166
I think you'll never really understand their true nature,

230
00:31:05,166 --> 00:31:07,166
which is extremely powerful.

231
00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:11,166
And then it seems with this past event,

232
00:31:11,166 --> 00:31:14,166
we saw not only the replicating, but the mutating,

233
00:31:14,166 --> 00:31:17,166
the evolving, the degenerating of memes,

234
00:31:17,166 --> 00:31:23,166
of competing in groups and out groups coming together

235
00:31:23,166 --> 00:31:29,166
and cannibalizing memes and trying to use those against an enemy.

236
00:31:29,166 --> 00:31:34,166
So can you talk a little bit more of like how a regurgitated meme

237
00:31:34,166 --> 00:31:38,166
can be used against somebody that once created it?

238
00:31:38,166 --> 00:31:40,166
Well, yes.

239
00:31:40,166 --> 00:31:44,166
It's true that the memes have no –

240
00:31:44,166 --> 00:31:49,166
if you were a genetic scientist and you invented a super virus,

241
00:31:50,166 --> 00:31:54,166
you could still – it was some kind of bioterrorism or something –

242
00:31:54,166 --> 00:31:58,166
you could still become infected with that virus and die.

243
00:31:58,166 --> 00:32:04,166
So the memes have no loyalty to anyone except themselves.

244
00:32:04,166 --> 00:32:06,166
They just exist to copy themselves.

245
00:32:06,166 --> 00:32:10,166
The influenza virus, it only exists because it can,

246
00:32:10,166 --> 00:32:13,166
and the reason it can exist is because it copies itself faster

247
00:32:13,166 --> 00:32:17,166
than the existing versions are deleted.

248
00:32:17,166 --> 00:32:19,166
So they have no loyalty to their author.

249
00:32:19,166 --> 00:32:21,166
That's just an ad hominem fallacy.

250
00:32:21,166 --> 00:32:23,166
So they can do whatever they want.

251
00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:27,166
I mean, in particular, Michael Goldstein tried to create

252
00:32:27,166 --> 00:32:32,166
or craft or highlight – so he tried to refine some memes.

253
00:32:32,166 --> 00:32:35,166
So he tried to evolve them similar to how a genetic scientist

254
00:32:35,166 --> 00:32:39,166
would do something with fruit flies where they die in as many generations

255
00:32:39,166 --> 00:32:41,166
or something.

256
00:32:41,166 --> 00:32:44,166
And so he's trying to pick out a few.

257
00:32:44,166 --> 00:32:50,166
I think he named three about like number go up and Bitcoin solves this

258
00:32:50,166 --> 00:32:55,166
where it's – or he thought they would spread.

259
00:32:55,166 --> 00:32:57,166
And he wants them to spread, and while they're around,

260
00:32:57,166 --> 00:33:00,166
they have a certain impact on people.

261
00:33:00,166 --> 00:33:05,166
They change what types of things can be expressed and not expressed.

262
00:33:05,166 --> 00:33:09,166
So they change what's sometimes called the Overton window.

263
00:33:09,166 --> 00:33:12,166
If there's a big meme around saying Bitcoin solves this,

264
00:33:12,166 --> 00:33:18,166
it may cause some embarrassment on people who think that Bitcoin doesn't solve this

265
00:33:18,166 --> 00:33:19,166
or that they don't understand Bitcoin.

266
00:33:19,166 --> 00:33:22,166
They may just be quiet.

267
00:33:22,166 --> 00:33:24,166
Or it may have some other effect.

268
00:33:24,166 --> 00:33:26,166
That's just one example.

269
00:33:26,166 --> 00:33:31,166
People may see the Bitcoin solves this meme,

270
00:33:31,166 --> 00:33:33,166
and they may think that the people doing it are having fun,

271
00:33:33,166 --> 00:33:36,166
which makes them more likely to do it themselves,

272
00:33:36,166 --> 00:33:38,166
which means their friends will do it.

273
00:33:38,166 --> 00:33:41,166
In that way, it's very similar to doing the wave in a stadium

274
00:33:41,166 --> 00:33:46,166
where the people who do it have kind of – it's a fun thing to do for most people.

275
00:33:46,166 --> 00:33:48,166
And then if you see it and you weren't a part of it,

276
00:33:48,166 --> 00:33:53,166
then you feel like you are out of the loop or that you were left out.

277
00:33:53,166 --> 00:33:55,166
And then the next time the wave comes around, you make sure that you do it,

278
00:33:55,166 --> 00:33:58,166
and then you try to get it started.

279
00:33:58,166 --> 00:34:01,166
The most prestigious thing is to be able to start the wave.

280
00:34:01,166 --> 00:34:05,166
People love it when they start the wave, and they think that's the most fun of all.

281
00:34:05,166 --> 00:34:07,166
So memes are a lot like that.

282
00:34:07,166 --> 00:34:11,166
I mean that is – doing the wave in a stadium is an example of a meme.

283
00:34:11,166 --> 00:34:15,166
And that is a harmless one that just makes stuff more fun,

284
00:34:15,166 --> 00:34:20,166
but the memes, just like genes, memes come in all endless variety.

285
00:34:20,166 --> 00:34:26,166
So some could be like HIV, and they could kill you or destroy huge populations.

286
00:34:26,166 --> 00:34:28,166
It could be like Ebola.

287
00:34:28,166 --> 00:34:32,166
Or some could be like the bacteria that live in your digestive system.

288
00:34:32,166 --> 00:34:38,166
They basically help you digest food and are totally harmless.

289
00:34:38,166 --> 00:34:42,166
So there's all kinds of versions, and it's very powerful.

290
00:34:42,166 --> 00:34:45,166
As you see, any of this stuff with replication,

291
00:34:45,166 --> 00:34:51,166
one individual person can have a huge influence because the one person makes –

292
00:34:51,166 --> 00:34:55,166
sure, you spend a lot of time when you just craft one little meme,

293
00:34:55,166 --> 00:34:58,166
but once it's out there, it spreads all by itself,

294
00:34:58,166 --> 00:35:01,166
and it locks down people's brains.

295
00:35:01,166 --> 00:35:05,166
People keep regurgitating this behavior over and over again

296
00:35:05,166 --> 00:35:08,166
instead of other behaviors that they could do because behavior

297
00:35:08,166 --> 00:35:11,166
and attention are both zero sum.

298
00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:15,166
If you're doing the wave, you can't be doing jumping jacks at the same time.

299
00:35:15,166 --> 00:35:17,166
You can only do one thing at a time.

300
00:35:17,166 --> 00:35:24,166
And what I find interesting, just to use that wave as an extended analogy here,

301
00:35:24,166 --> 00:35:29,166
is what happens when an outgroup that's on the other side of the stadium

302
00:35:30,166 --> 00:35:33,166
observes the wave going on authentically,

303
00:35:33,166 --> 00:35:37,166
and then they themselves actually mirror the wave,

304
00:35:37,166 --> 00:35:38,166
but they're doing it in jest.

305
00:35:38,166 --> 00:35:42,166
They're trying to mock the other outgroup.

306
00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:44,166
And then let's take this back to crypto.

307
00:35:44,166 --> 00:35:48,166
Like what happens when somebody, again, cannibalizes that meme,

308
00:35:48,166 --> 00:35:52,166
regurgitates it, but almost uses it as now an attack vector,

309
00:35:52,166 --> 00:35:57,166
and ultimately how good of an attack vector that is

310
00:35:57,166 --> 00:36:05,166
if it actually extends the original party's goal of perpetuating that meme?

311
00:36:05,166 --> 00:36:09,166
Yeah, well, the memes can only spread.

312
00:36:09,166 --> 00:36:12,166
Well, they all have different strategies for spreading,

313
00:36:12,166 --> 00:36:15,166
the same way that influenza virus spreads through the air,

314
00:36:15,166 --> 00:36:17,166
but other things spread.

315
00:36:17,166 --> 00:36:20,166
There are STDs, right, and there's stuff that spreads through water,

316
00:36:20,166 --> 00:36:23,166
and there's stuff that spreads through contaminated food

317
00:36:23,166 --> 00:36:25,166
or like root spores or something.

318
00:36:25,166 --> 00:36:29,166
So the memes have all kinds of different strategies for spreading,

319
00:36:29,166 --> 00:36:34,166
but the fun Internet memes, they're supposed to be funny.

320
00:36:34,166 --> 00:36:38,166
When you look at them, you're supposed to like get a laugh out of them,

321
00:36:38,166 --> 00:36:40,166
and then when you share them with your friends,

322
00:36:40,166 --> 00:36:43,166
your friends are supposed to think, oh, that guy, you know, he's so funny.

323
00:36:43,166 --> 00:36:46,166
He always has this great content online.

324
00:36:46,166 --> 00:36:48,166
I love following him on Twitter.

325
00:36:48,166 --> 00:36:50,166
He has great jokes.

326
00:36:51,166 --> 00:36:57,166
So you could disable the meme by trying to say that actually it isn't funny

327
00:36:57,166 --> 00:37:03,166
and these jokes are not creative or they're derivative or they're predictable,

328
00:37:03,166 --> 00:37:05,166
and then you could make fun of the people.

329
00:37:05,166 --> 00:37:08,166
You could say as if, sort of sarcastically,

330
00:37:08,166 --> 00:37:12,166
you could say as if we fell for this meme, you know,

331
00:37:12,166 --> 00:37:16,166
like maybe a bunch of academics at like a prestigious conference,

332
00:37:16,166 --> 00:37:21,166
do the wave like making fun of simpleton NFL fans or something.

333
00:37:21,166 --> 00:37:24,166
I don't know if that makes any sense, but something like that,

334
00:37:24,166 --> 00:37:29,166
they could say like, yeah, as if we would all do something that simple,

335
00:37:29,166 --> 00:37:37,166
and in that way, they would be showing off that they have more complicated ways

336
00:37:37,166 --> 00:37:41,166
of hanging out as a group, which is to throw parties

337
00:37:41,166 --> 00:37:46,166
and talk endlessly about complicated things.

338
00:37:46,166 --> 00:37:49,166
Like, you know what I mean, like cocktail parties.

339
00:37:49,166 --> 00:37:50,166
That's what academics do.

340
00:37:50,166 --> 00:37:56,166
They have like a conference and then they have like a little aperitif thing.

341
00:37:56,166 --> 00:38:01,166
All the gestures and, you know, customs that they have to perform.

342
00:38:01,166 --> 00:38:07,166
Talk endlessly about interesting things, which I think a lot of people, you know,

343
00:38:07,166 --> 00:38:12,166
can't deal and stuff for like four hours in a row.

344
00:38:12,166 --> 00:38:16,166
Yeah, the irony is them going to, you know, a football party

345
00:38:16,166 --> 00:38:21,166
and then being at a loss when, you know, somebody can cite statistics

346
00:38:21,166 --> 00:38:25,166
of a player and a team, you know, back to the 70s.

347
00:38:25,166 --> 00:38:27,166
What I thought you were going to say was they don't know all of, you know,

348
00:38:27,166 --> 00:38:30,166
if you go to like a baseball game, there's like 100 call and response

349
00:38:30,166 --> 00:38:36,166
little things, like the thing about a charge and then the everybody clap your hands

350
00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:40,166
and all the other stuff that you have to know, which you might not know

351
00:38:40,166 --> 00:38:44,166
if you don't go very often to that type of thing.

352
00:38:44,166 --> 00:38:47,166
But, yeah, I don't know how to relate this back to, you know,

353
00:38:47,166 --> 00:38:50,166
you would want to damage the original meme and shut it off

354
00:38:50,166 --> 00:38:55,166
so that the original people felt embarrassment and not humor when they spread it.

355
00:38:55,166 --> 00:39:00,166
They'd be like, oh, I thought this was really cool, but if I spread this meme,

356
00:39:00,166 --> 00:39:04,166
I'm just outing myself as someone who's not in the loop.

357
00:39:04,166 --> 00:39:05,166
So, yes.

358
00:39:05,166 --> 00:39:10,166
Ironically, though, the major content of Michael Goldstein's presentation

359
00:39:10,166 --> 00:39:14,166
was that memeing is important, and so by talking about it now,

360
00:39:14,166 --> 00:39:21,166
we are spreading his meme, which is to say that both he and us

361
00:39:21,166 --> 00:39:25,166
have been captured by it temporarily.

362
00:39:25,166 --> 00:39:32,166
But since he did it first, he's more prestigious because he is closer to the

363
00:39:33,166 --> 00:39:35,166
he's further in the loop.

364
00:39:35,166 --> 00:39:38,166
This is why humans care about being in the loop.

365
00:39:38,166 --> 00:39:43,166
They really – they lived in a world where people would gossip a lot,

366
00:39:43,166 --> 00:39:48,166
and if people could gossip about you, it's like the blitzkrieg.

367
00:39:48,166 --> 00:39:56,166
Like you've got the airplanes that can just bomb your army before you even get to
the field.

368
00:39:56,166 --> 00:40:00,166
And if in the ancient past, 200,000 years ago or whatever,

369
00:40:00,166 --> 00:40:04,166
people could gossip about you, and then before you even knew that there was a rumor
about you

370
00:40:04,166 --> 00:40:08,166
that could be false, people could surround your tent

371
00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:10,166
and kill you in your sleep or something.

372
00:40:10,166 --> 00:40:16,166
So humans love to gossip, and we don't like to be out of the loop.

373
00:40:16,166 --> 00:40:17,166
We want to be in the loop.

374
00:40:17,166 --> 00:40:22,166
So the first person to spread a meme is of a higher status

375
00:40:22,166 --> 00:40:25,166
than the people who follow it later.

376
00:40:25,166 --> 00:40:28,166
This is also why it's a bad idea to constantly –

377
00:40:28,166 --> 00:40:34,166
it shows poor leadership to constantly react to what a rival group is doing,

378
00:40:34,166 --> 00:40:38,166
which does happen a lot in – it does happen a lot.

379
00:40:38,166 --> 00:40:47,166
For example, on our BTC, almost all of it is a reaction to either something that
Craig Wright

380
00:40:47,166 --> 00:40:52,166
or Bitcoin SV has said or something that BTC has said,

381
00:40:52,166 --> 00:40:56,166
which that strategy helps you accomplish certain things.

382
00:40:56,166 --> 00:41:02,166
The one thing that it does also do is that it shows poor leadership

383
00:41:02,166 --> 00:41:07,166
because it says that whatever happens in the community is a function of what other
people do,

384
00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:10,166
what the BTC community or the BSV community does.

385
00:41:10,166 --> 00:41:15,166
So that – it depends on the situation.

386
00:41:15,166 --> 00:41:17,166
Again, it's like the world's a complicated place.

387
00:41:17,166 --> 00:41:23,166
But probably should try to have – it would be better if there was more symmetry.

388
00:41:23,166 --> 00:41:30,166
It would be better for Bitcoin Cash if the BCH community could do things that the
BTC community

389
00:41:30,166 --> 00:41:33,166
almost always reacted to.

390
00:41:33,166 --> 00:41:38,166
Whatever they are, and that is part of the magic of Craig S. Wright and Donald
Trump,

391
00:41:38,166 --> 00:41:44,166
which is that they can force people, even people who know, who know better,

392
00:41:44,166 --> 00:41:48,166
and they know that they're actually helping Donald Trump or Craig S. Wright,

393
00:41:48,166 --> 00:41:51,166
even the people who know better feel compelled.

394
00:41:51,166 --> 00:41:58,166
They have moments where they literally just lose self-control, and they cannot stop
themselves.

395
00:41:58,166 --> 00:42:01,166
That's a lot of effort. It takes them basically kind of like therapy.

396
00:42:01,166 --> 00:42:07,166
They have to sit on a couch and sort of think about what they're doing before they
finally –

397
00:42:07,166 --> 00:42:10,166
it's like kicking a bad habit or something.

398
00:42:10,166 --> 00:42:16,166
They have to stop letting someone get under their skin,

399
00:42:16,166 --> 00:42:20,166
especially when it's not advancing your own interests.

400
00:42:21,166 --> 00:42:22,166
Giving them free advertising.

401
00:42:22,166 --> 00:42:27,166
Absolutely. That was one amazing study of Donald Trump, the immediate time he got

402
00:42:27,166 --> 00:42:31,166
and how much it would have cost him to buy that time,

403
00:42:31,166 --> 00:42:36,166
which would have been like many orders of magnitude more than other candidates
spent.

404
00:42:36,166 --> 00:42:42,166
And I think so much that it would have violated multiple campaign finance laws or
something.

405
00:42:42,166 --> 00:42:47,166
But yeah, you get a lot of free advertising, especially in the primary season.

406
00:42:47,166 --> 00:42:52,166
In the United States, the way it works, for anyone who doesn't know,

407
00:42:52,166 --> 00:42:59,166
there's a – especially the Democrats have a superdelegate system designed to
suppress this,

408
00:42:59,166 --> 00:43:04,166
but it also backfired against them last cycle because – well, it's a very long
story.

409
00:43:04,166 --> 00:43:11,166
But the Republican one is a little bit more first-past-the-post, winner-take-all
type thing,

410
00:43:11,166 --> 00:43:17,166
where you have to vote, and you have to vote for someone, and you don't want your
vote to be split

411
00:43:17,166 --> 00:43:20,166
because if your vote is split, there's no instant runoff, and there's no ranking,

412
00:43:20,166 --> 00:43:21,166
and there's no anything like that.

413
00:43:21,166 --> 00:43:23,166
If your vote is split, you're doomed.

414
00:43:23,166 --> 00:43:29,166
So you have to narrow it down to a couple front runners before you pick in the
primary.

415
00:43:29,166 --> 00:43:35,166
And so in that way, anyone who can stand out for any reason has a big advantage,

416
00:43:35,166 --> 00:43:40,166
especially when last time 17 people ran in the Republican Party,

417
00:43:40,166 --> 00:43:46,166
making it the danger of splitting your vote much worse.

418
00:43:46,166 --> 00:43:48,166
And then the party did a lot of wacky things.

419
00:43:48,166 --> 00:43:54,166
There's so many things about Donald Trump was the only one who agreed – who didn't
agree to –

420
00:43:54,166 --> 00:43:57,166
he was threatening to run as a third party, and then they were ranking the
candidates

421
00:43:57,166 --> 00:44:01,166
so that the person with the most was in the center, and the people near the fringes

422
00:44:01,166 --> 00:44:08,166
had the lowest polling numbers, just stigmatizing them as being unelectable.

423
00:44:08,166 --> 00:44:12,166
So yes, a lot of crazy stuff happens, but this is a lot like that,

424
00:44:12,166 --> 00:44:20,166
where it's a situation where if the vote is split – this happens very often in human
behavior,

425
00:44:20,166 --> 00:44:22,166
all kinds of things, like in the Army.

426
00:44:22,166 --> 00:44:24,166
Imagine if your armed forces were split.

427
00:44:24,166 --> 00:44:26,166
It's Napoleon, divide and conquer, right?

428
00:44:27,166 --> 00:44:31,166
So if your forces were split, you would get crushed.

429
00:44:31,166 --> 00:44:38,166
One small part would get crushed, and then the next small part would get crushed by
a unified army.

430
00:44:38,166 --> 00:44:42,166
So this is a very general problem.

431
00:44:42,166 --> 00:44:48,166
Exactly, and then to wrap this back up into the crypto situation,

432
00:44:48,166 --> 00:44:52,166
I find it interesting that there's these power dynamics where you talk about, well,

433
00:44:52,166 --> 00:44:59,166
is this actually playing into the hand of the person, and the counterparty becomes a
reactor

434
00:44:59,166 --> 00:45:01,166
and giving them what they want.

435
00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:07,166
I think to a certain degree that is a function of size, incumbency,

436
00:45:07,166 --> 00:45:11,166
and who is the gorilla meme warrior sort of.

437
00:45:11,166 --> 00:45:12,166
Gorilla.

438
00:45:12,166 --> 00:45:13,166
In terms of –

439
00:45:13,166 --> 00:45:16,166
You mean like hidden, or do you mean like a large ape?

440
00:45:17,166 --> 00:45:22,166
I mean, in somewhat of a general sense, even though this isn't entirely true,

441
00:45:22,166 --> 00:45:29,166
the incumbent, it's like a binary capture the flag or king of the hill scenario.

442
00:45:29,166 --> 00:45:31,166
So they have the ground.

443
00:45:31,166 --> 00:45:33,166
There's no more ground that they can gain.

444
00:45:33,166 --> 00:45:41,166
The weaker parties or the smaller parties are trying to either have them cede that
ground or gain it themselves.

445
00:45:41,166 --> 00:45:48,166
So it always behooves the weaker parties, the smaller parties, to react, if you may
call it that,

446
00:45:48,166 --> 00:45:54,166
or even punch up to make that happen.

447
00:45:54,166 --> 00:46:00,166
But if the incumbent actually – whether the best strategy for them would be to
ignore,

448
00:46:00,166 --> 00:46:08,166
but if any interaction happens, they're actually feeding the smaller party that
needs that memetic attention.

449
00:46:08,166 --> 00:46:09,166
Right.

450
00:46:09,166 --> 00:46:14,166
Nassim Taleb mentioned something about this once when he was selling his book,
Antifragile,

451
00:46:14,166 --> 00:46:16,166
to like the publisher or something.

452
00:46:16,166 --> 00:46:23,166
And he said, what if I got into a fist fight on stage with someone on like the Today
Show or something?

453
00:46:23,166 --> 00:46:25,166
And then it was like it would sell more books.

454
00:46:25,166 --> 00:46:28,166
And in marketing, I think this is called congruence,

455
00:46:28,166 --> 00:46:34,166
which is that you find someone who's famous, someone like whatever, someone like
Oprah or something,

456
00:46:34,166 --> 00:46:40,166
and then you have them and you have the brand, and they're both drawn towards each
other.

457
00:46:40,166 --> 00:46:42,166
So I don't know.

458
00:46:42,166 --> 00:46:47,166
Hypothetically, Oprah would become more lame and the product would become more
awesome.

459
00:46:47,166 --> 00:46:52,166
They kind of have a kind of convergence.

460
00:46:52,166 --> 00:46:56,166
I think it's called congruence even though it probably should be called convergence.

461
00:46:56,166 --> 00:46:57,166
I don't know.

462
00:46:57,166 --> 00:47:00,166
But, yeah, that's a real idea.

463
00:47:00,166 --> 00:47:01,166
And there's even a phrase.

464
00:47:01,166 --> 00:47:02,166
What's the phrase?

465
00:47:02,166 --> 00:47:09,166
It's like a rising star shouldn't talk to, I don't know, a falling star or
something.

466
00:47:09,166 --> 00:47:15,166
I don't know what the exact phrase is, but there's something like that, which is
that.

467
00:47:15,166 --> 00:47:18,166
But, yeah, you're certainly right.

468
00:47:18,166 --> 00:47:24,166
When a person engages with you in a certain frame, it could be as a conversation
frame,

469
00:47:24,166 --> 00:47:27,166
which then in a conversation people are generally equal.

470
00:47:27,166 --> 00:47:30,166
So it's one side versus the other side.

471
00:47:30,166 --> 00:47:37,166
And now you've made it two equal sides, even though by market cap it's extremely
unequal.

472
00:47:37,166 --> 00:47:41,166
It's like one twentieth of a side versus one side.

473
00:47:41,166 --> 00:47:42,166
Exactly.

474
00:47:42,166 --> 00:47:45,166
It's not exactly logic.

475
00:47:45,166 --> 00:47:54,166
I'm reading this new book by one of the top guys over at Ogilvy and their behavioral
science department.

476
00:47:55,166 --> 00:47:56,166
Rory Sutherland.

477
00:47:56,166 --> 00:47:59,166
The book is called I think it's The Art of Alchemy.

478
00:47:59,166 --> 00:48:04,166
It's all about sort of his take on advertising, marketing and behavioral economics.

479
00:48:04,166 --> 00:48:06,166
And he calls it psychologic.

480
00:48:06,166 --> 00:48:20,166
And it's, you know, obviously our logical brain can't kind of process the fact that
it seems like something with a market cap of three percent is somewhat on an equal
footing of something with 70 percent.

481
00:48:20,166 --> 00:48:23,166
You know, that doesn't make sense.

482
00:48:23,166 --> 00:48:24,166
They shouldn't be in the same ballpark.

483
00:48:24,166 --> 00:48:30,166
But when certain social interactions occur and certain memetic strategies are
employed, they actually become equal.

484
00:48:30,166 --> 00:48:43,166
And so that's sort of the psycho logic, the the the collective imagination of
humans, you know, creating this this platform for these ideas to trade.

485
00:48:43,166 --> 00:48:44,166
So then if you have.

486
00:48:44,166 --> 00:48:57,166
OK, well, there was the presentation of memes and then there was the reaction, let's
say, of of the crowd coming from various altcoin communities responding to the
maximalist manifesto.

487
00:48:57,166 --> 00:49:02,166
And then and then there's also the reaction from them to the reaction.

488
00:49:02,166 --> 00:49:08,166
And so it became it becomes this domino effect of, well, where do you actually start
the first domino?

489
00:49:08,166 --> 00:49:32,166
And at the same time, you could even say the match, like no one would have really
paid attention too much to the presentation by Goldstein if it was not for Pierre
Richard reacting to Joshua Davis's morally ambiguous, you know, derogatory
characterization of his face.

490
00:49:32,166 --> 00:49:34,166
If not for that.

491
00:49:34,166 --> 00:49:35,166
Yeah, I don't know.

492
00:49:35,166 --> 00:49:36,166
That joke wasn't very funny either.

493
00:49:36,166 --> 00:49:38,166
That's the true crime.

494
00:49:38,166 --> 00:49:41,166
But it would it would it would counter the point that they are the.

495
00:49:41,166 --> 00:49:42,166
But I know you mean.

496
00:49:42,166 --> 00:49:54,166
Well, I mean, what's the culture is described as a conversation that began in like
the African rainforest a long time ago that is still going on or something like
that.

497
00:49:54,166 --> 00:49:55,166
So.

498
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:22,760
Certainly, that's the case. I thought you were going to say that no one would have
paid as much attention to Michael Goldstein's presentation if it weren't so
hyperbolic and kind of designed to trigger people because it was so extreme and and
it used very combative language. It was very sort of black and white for nuanced
issues. It was kind of being very bold, but it was also very, you know,

499
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:33,240
and that was, again, sort of part of the purpose, just to sort of craft something
that would have impact on people.

500
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:43,840
And so, yeah, I don't know. But definitely, as I said with Donald Trump and Craig S.
Wright, it designed to get under people's skin,

501
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,880
even to the point where they it just gets under the people's skin and they just have
a reaction to it.

502
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,120
And their reaction might not even be in their own best interest.

503
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,920
For sure. And then in the interest of the meme or in the interest of something else.

504
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,960
But what is interesting as it's, you know, there seems to be the

505
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:18,560
the one directional flow of there was an intended purpose, let's say, by Goldstein
of being hyperbolic and thus he entrapped the reactionaries in their Twitter
outrage.

506
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:33,360
But if the reactionaries are also aware of what's going on, I mean, I think everyone
was sort of seeing somewhat of the tongue in cheekness and also seeing the validness
of what Bitstein was talking about.

507
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:45,840
And then satirizing it and and bring it to a point of surrealness of where yours
truly not to toot my horn, but creating the, you know,

508
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:53,560
breakout of, OK, they decided to boycott Mike Dudas and the block, which you could
say that was part of the joke.

509
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:59,480
Other people took that as kind of crossing a line as well to kind of lump in a
company that had nothing to do with it.

510
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:13,960
Employees and telling people that cancel subscriptions side of that, taking the Mike
Dudas sort of throwing under the bus and satirizing that and making that a surreal
campaign of hashtag justice for Dudas.

511
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,200
Or, you know, they found an innocent, which is funny.

512
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,840
Yeah, which, you know, it got some likes here and there.

513
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:26,200
But I think more of the qualitative measure of of how that penetrated was Mike Dudas
himself retweeted that.

514
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:39,080
And people were confused when he was tweeting, not we are all Dudas, you know, they
struck down an innocent and I had my profile as his profile picture and I changed my
name.

515
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:52,440
So to that, yes, to the degree that we just take that and not using me as a as an
example for myself, but just for a third party observing myself in the air.

516
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:04,960
You know, it went from Goldstein's intended to make everyone react and then people
like myself seeing it, observing it and then twisting it even more, making it even
more surreal.

517
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,840
And I think that's almost to going back to the Trump election.

518
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,760
That is what the meme war was.

519
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,600
It was people going even more surreal, even more.

520
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,000
Yes, I agree. Make it even more indecipherable, really.

521
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,560
Well, it's very the more the meta stuff.

522
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:29,200
See, the problem with being meta, though, is that, as I mentioned before, it's
unclear who the real leader is.

523
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:39,480
If it's all completely a reaction to something that Michael Goldstein did, then it's
like he's drawing the whole show, which you might not want as when you craft your
own meme.

524
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,520
I mean, your own, I don't know, meme army or something.

525
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:58,600
But I want to mention something you said before about people couldn't tell was a
part of the joke or not, which is that this is a very important aspect of humor,
which is that it is it is like half true and half.

526
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,560
Play and whenever people play, they are obviously not.

527
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:09,000
If you're playing like cops and robbers, you absolutely are not really doing any of
that stuff.

528
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:15,040
And if you go to see a play, then the people are not actually, you know, Macbeth or
whatever.

529
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,600
They're they're actors.

530
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:23,560
So play is fake, but humor has a kind of involuntary truth to it.

531
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:30,920
It's hard if something you point out an absurdity with satire and people laugh, it
reveals that it's true.

532
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:37,320
So humor has always been this this area where you can kind of like use it to tell
the truth.

533
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:43,680
A truth that people don't want to admit or that can't be said aloud because it's a
taboo.

534
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:54,800
Which comedians often do, but it can also be used to be very mean to someone and
bully people and make fun of them and then say that, oh, we're just playing around,
even though you really weren't.

535
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,080
And this is the power of humor that is in this ambiguous zone.

536
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,040
And it can touch truth and deception at the same time.

537
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,320
And it's it's very powerful that way.

538
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:08,400
So I had to bring that up.

539
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:35,200
I don't part of the like, is it sometimes you you wonder, like for a lot of this
stuff that that Michael Goldstein and Pierre Rochard say, you think, like, do they
really believe any of this or are they just seeing like what they can get away with,
which is very much a Donald Trump maneuver, in my opinion, and I think a lot of I
think that's a normal thing that people do.

540
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:57,680
And that is a feature of our modern world where you just want to see how many people
you can, like, reach or persuade or and it's sort of the post-truth concept from
Scott Adams or I guess a lot of people, but the Dilbert guy.

541
00:55:58,240 --> 00:55:58,760
Yeah.

542
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:01,600
So he goes on about that.

543
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:27,640
I mean, there's also the notion here that what many people have been saying is like
we've shifted to an attention economy that, you know, as we move towards abundance
and shift into everyone being online and everyone being accessible and being able to
now choose and on demand, decide how they consume content.

544
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:39,360
Ultimately, attention is the is the thing that you want and whoever controls the
attention actually controls, you know, thoughts, behavior, actions.

545
00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:47,240
And if all you're after is attention and that becomes more of a quantitative than
qualitative issue for you.

546
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:56,440
Yeah. You don't care if what you're saying is totally true, totally morally sound.

547
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,760
It's more like, you know, most people's exactly right.

548
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:19,560
And if it on social media where people can share and like and retweet or whatever,
share on Facebook, subscribe, like, etc., then the stuff that will get the most
attention will be these memes because they can spread through the entire population.

549
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:32,600
And yeah, it doesn't matter if it's it can be Gangnam Style, right, or it could be a
Rebecca Black Friday or something where it could be it could be for any reason or it
could be something that really hurts people's freedom, hurts people's feelings.

550
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:43,920
And yeah, this is again, it's exactly the same with genes in which with infectious
disease or with any animal, any plant or animal.

551
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,920
Or a disease or a virus or anything, those things, they have no idea why they do.

552
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:57,400
With humans being the noteworthy exception, no one knows why they do any of the
things that they do.

553
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,760
You know, the influenza virus, it doesn't know what it's doing.

554
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,760
It just it just is an influenza virus.

555
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:12,840
It just does that. So the criterion is just does it replicate the fastest?

556
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,200
And that is sort of evolution of memes.

557
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:24,960
And yeah, certainly we have, we live in a world now where there is a way too much
content.

558
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:40,560
We grew up, most people, I mean, even magazines, the idea of just having a magazine
rack with a lot of pages and more stuff that you could read, that's pretty, pretty
new in the grand scheme of things.

559
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,800
It's in 24 hour cable news.

560
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,840
I think that was 1980 or something.

561
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,880
So a lot of this is very new.

562
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:56,400
And but especially with social media, where you're a consumer and author, that gives
the memes many generations to evolve.

563
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:57,520
And they do evolve.

564
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:06,520
And that's why you get these these things that spread very contagiously, you know,
like Gotham style.

565
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,040
That's a harmless one.

566
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:08,960
But yeah, I don't know.

567
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:12,960
Like, so many of them are not many of them are harmful.

568
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:23,040
And I think that includes a lot of these, you know, if you go on Facebook these
days, everyone's got like one or two crazy friends or family members.

569
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:37,400
And they just they share these political memes that I think instead of spreading by
being entertaining, they spread by inducing anger or anxiety or fear, make people
feel miserable.

570
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,480
But doesn't matter.

571
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,560
Whatever gets the chair, that will be the winner in the end.

572
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:58,320
So yeah, and as we were drawn to a conclusion on time here, as we wrap up and sum
up, you know, we've been through, you know, the sort of general theory, what exactly
this event brought to the table in terms of outgroups and groups.

573
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:14,320
What I want to get from you is what we go forward from here, like how do we use
memetics as like an industry in general to foster a better community and a better
roadmap of productive business and technology development?

574
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,080
How to be more productive?

575
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:17,640
Yes.

576
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,920
Well, that's I have a couple of things to say.

577
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:35,560
One is that in reference to my last point, it's possible, although not likely, but
it's possible that Michael Goldstein doesn't believe anything he says about BTC
maximalism, you know, as I just said, he could only be doing it for the memes.

578
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,360
I don't think that's the case.

579
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,880
I think he does believe a lot of it.

580
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,960
But again, belief is not required, merely a desire to be popular.

581
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,640
Second, though, he did mention something in his talk, and I didn't get to see the
talk.

582
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:50,680
I only read the transcript.

583
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,280
So I don't know very much about the talk.

584
01:00:53,600 --> 01:01:01,120
But he did say that you have to, I mean, the memes spread.

585
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,120
Again, they have different strategies, but a funny little meme.

586
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:15,400
Certain types of memes become harder to spread if the audience is very smart or well
informed.

587
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:25,080
So you could try only to appeal to a certain type of audience or a certain type of
medium, a slower medium.

588
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,520
Twitter is a very fast medium, right?

589
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,400
It's like a real time conversation.

590
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:38,040
And it's just built to have things taken out of context, because it's only a tiny,
tiny little snippet.

591
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:46,640
You're devoutly encouraged to excerpt a mere 280 characters.

592
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:54,560
So you could instead, you know, as Marshall McLuhan said, the medium is the message.

593
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,800
So you could start like a journal of Bitcoin.

594
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:08,080
That would be, you know, with intense quality checking and basic journalistic sort
of integrity where you get both sides.

595
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,120
You have both sides comment on every story whenever there's a controversy.

596
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,520
The problem with that is it's definitely going to be boring compared to Twitter and
harder to read.

597
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,280
So it depends on what you want.

598
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:24,520
If you want accurate information, one thing you could do, the best thing to do is
build a world where people are punished.

599
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:33,200
For being wrong, then they'll know that Twitter is good for hearing about rumors and
new events and getting news.

600
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,640
But that if they ever really want to know something, they have to investigate it
themselves.

601
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:47,000
Maybe read some PDFs, you know, or books or hear someone talk or meet with them in
person or call them or ask them questions.

602
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:59,920
So one thing would be if you could, if there was a way to make sure that when people
were wrong about something, they paid some kind of cost for that.

603
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,320
And there are a lot of concepts for that.

604
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:09,800
Prediction markets is one, but just having different markets for BTC and BCH is
another.

605
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:26,760
Or you could say, well, if BTC people really are totally deluded, then they will
bear a huge cost because the cost will be eventually the project will collapse and
the coin, which could have been worth $10,000 each, would be worth nothing instead.

606
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040
That's if that if all that's true.

607
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,200
There is, what was I going to say?

608
01:03:34,200 --> 01:04:03,720
There's a kind of, what you want is to have a situation where, you see, part of the
point of Michael Goldstein's talk is that there is a kind of simultaneity or there's
a kind of, when you bet on BTC versus BCH, it's not just on the tech, it is also on
the brand and the sort of

609
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:21,720
network effect. And the network effect is how many people know about it and sort of
and want it and accept it. The market demand and how many people have wallets that
are configured for this or for that. And so you're really betting on a few things at
once.

610
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,560
When you bet on BCH versus BTC.

611
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:32,520
And it's difficult to, because if

612
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:44,480
if he or if the BTC community has a stronger meme game, then their money will be
more recognizable and recognizability is one of the properties of money.

613
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:54,880
It's the one property of money that is explicitly psychological. So that's kind of
difficult. I mean, you almost want to

614
01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:04,960
It depends on how to answer your question is difficult because there's a question
that went something along the lines of how do we have a productive environment, but
it's partially like, how do we

615
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:17,160
have a productive environment could be interpreted as saying like, does the
environment have a good meme game? Does it have good marketing? Does it have, does
it, does it write technology better?

616
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,000
And those are all different. So I think my answer your question is horribly confused
and

617
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:32,800
And unhelpful, but I don't know. I think what I said about meme hygiene probably
helps. I mean, maybe take a day off of Twitter. If you find yourself if you notice
yourself doing things and you can't clearly explain

618
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:35,520
Why you're doing them and why they are

619
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:44,200
Helping you achieve your goals, then it's possible that you actually aren't doing
them and you're this meme has installed itself in your brain.

620
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:48,400
And it's forcing you to do that without without and preventing you from seeing why

621
01:05:49,040 --> 01:06:10,120
Which is how they work. Many of them. So, and you know, and the influenza virus
infects your body. Why, why can't you just tell yourself, well, I don't want to make
a trillion copies of the influenza virus today. It doesn't work like that. Right.
It's it hijacks. So if you notice I yourself being manipulated by memes. I would
stop because it's a great way to waste a lot of time.

622
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,880
If you notice reacting to stuff that other people do

623
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:28,840
Does that serve your interests, maybe, but probably not, especially if those people
are hostile to your interests. So I would focus on meme hygiene. I think it's
actually

624
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:54,600
So I would focus on meme hygiene. I think it's actually yeah before you do mean
craft. Yeah, it's like people would have to learn about hygiene before they open
their own genetic laboratory. Right. So you should settle for that. And these memes,
you know, again, they're very specialized they highly evolved because they have many
generations in a day as they spread around the internet and through all the
different time zones of the world and back.

625
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:21,160
They have variation and selection. So it's Darwinian. So you shouldn't feel ashamed
if they brainwash you because there is a constant assault and it is a giant, you
know, it's like everyone is linked to the same blood bank or something when you go
on Twitter. So it's, you shouldn't be surprised, you get a very highly infectious
thing. I don't know, I guess that's what I would say, I would say, work on hygiene
first.

626
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:28,200
There we go. To sum up and paraphrase to be more productive in crypto, stay off of
Twitter.

627
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:40,360
Yeah, that might be it. And yeah, okay. Well, thank you, Paul. This has been great.
And everyone stay spicy.

628
01:07:51,160 --> 01:08:20,440
All right, we are back. That was our interview with Paul. Great guy. Great topic.
Talked a lot about memes, what they mean, crypto, everything. So that was fun. I
want to know what you guys think. Get in the chat. How do you think Paul nailed the
mean subject?

629
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:39,160
Did he unlock something that we didn't see before? Did I say something that maybe
triggered something in your brain? What do you have to say? I want to know your
theories on memes. Post them in the chat, throw them on Twitter. Make sure to tag at
Coinspice, at Truthcoin, at underscore Peter Ryan. Let us hear your thoughts.

630
01:08:39,160 --> 01:09:05,160
So on top of that, guys, we have a few more topics to wrap up here. We have number
one, the dank meme contest, which is dank meme of the week. Go to that tweet. It's
in the chat. Submit your dank meme and then we'll look in a few moments. Who is the
winner? Stiff competition. So bring your A game.

631
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:29,160
On top of that, I want to turn back over to, guys, our free sock giveaway contest.
Go to the tweet. Go hit like. Go hit retweet. Make sure you follow us so you can get
your free pair of socks. And again, you're getting any size, small, medium, large,
male, female socks.

632
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:55,160
And you're just going to be feeling spicy. You're going to be feeling good. You
know, a lot of people talk about crypto merch and they don't always love wearing
big, obnoxious logos when they're walking around. So this is a great way to rep your
lifestyle, which is crypto, but a little bit more on the down low, a little bit more
subtle. So get these socks and be part of the crypto universe.

633
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:18,160
So go there. Make sure you have to follow. You have to like. You have to retweet.
And when we will decide, we will choose randomly from all the people that are in
this list right here. And, oh, we just had a little bump up in the retweets there
when I was saying that. So make sure you do that. And we will DM you saying you are
the lucky winner and we will send you a free pair of spicy socks. So please go and
do that.

634
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:42,160
Great. Great. So anyway, guys, we're going back. This is it. We're at Spicy Meme.
We're at Dank Meme of the Week. So here we go. We're jumping in. All right, guys.
What do you got? What do you got to work with? Last chance. I'll do one. I'll do one
reload after this first review. So jump in there.

635
01:10:42,160 --> 01:11:10,160
All right. So first up, we have Vile Skrelli, also known as Coin Alchemist. We have,
oh, interesting. Green coin go down. Lots of orange coin go up. Interesting. Oh,
this is a lot of things going on here. This is perfect. This is like a meta, meta
meme. It's meta. Very interesting.

636
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:33,160
Okay. The complexity is definitely on point. Here we are. Okay. We got Mike coming
in with a picture from Reform Bitcoiner. And it's just a gaggle of maximalists. Who
doesn't want to be a part of that? Come on, guys. I mean, doesn't that look
attractive?

637
01:11:40,160 --> 01:12:01,160
Going back down. Okay. We got Claudio Gill coming in. World population. What's going
on here, buddy? World population. All Maxis. Oh, okay. Okay. Simple, guys. Simple.

638
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:21,160
Oh, okay. That just, that was a nice, thought that was it. But he was directly
commenting on Zach Voel, a comparison of Bitcoin and fiat ATMs. Interesting. Okay.
That just gave it some bonus points for that.

639
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:44,160
Anthony Banks coming in. I detect activity. Okay. This is a gif. I don't know if
this qualifies of a meme. I don't know. It's just a gorilla chewing. I don't know
how it relates. Okay. I don't know. The judges will have to go back to the, you
know, the back room to decide on this gif entry. You might be disqualified.

640
01:12:45,160 --> 01:13:05,160
Samuel J. Gosling. What do we got here? We got a Pepe. Oh, we got a Pepe Pepper,
guys. Very, very brand appropriate. Very brand appropriate. Points on that. Okay. So
we're going to do one refresh. You better have gotten in there.

641
01:13:05,160 --> 01:13:31,160
All right. So we did a refresh. Okay. So no new entries. Okay. So who are we going
with? Who are we going with? Who are we going with? Who are we going with? Okay. And
it's the Pepe Pepper. Samuel J. J. Gosling coming in.

642
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:52,160
Classic. Simple. Not a lot else going on. That's what we want, guys.
Congratulations. Dank Meme of the Week. Samuel J. J. Gosling coming in strong. Make
sure to follow him. XGazi. Awesome stuff, guys. Thank you for everyone that
contributed to the Dank Meme of the Week.

643
01:13:53,160 --> 01:14:09,160
Make sure you go to our Twitter that you check out all this. You check out the free
sock giveaway contest and make sure to like, retweet, and follow us. Make sure to go
to all our channels, Instagram, Telegram, our newsletter, and make sure you get
everything Coinspice in every way possible.

644
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:38,160
Again, here's our store. If you don't want to participate in the contest and you
just want to get your socks right away and you want to help us out a little bit, go
in there and buy your own socks and, hey, grab a t-shirt while you're at it. So
anyway, guys, this has been Coinspice Live. I'm Peter Ryan. Make sure to follow me
at at underscore Peter Ryan and catch the memes that I got pumping in the next few
days. So stay spicy.

645
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:40,160
We'll see you next time.

646
01:15:07,300 --> 01:15:32,480
Hold on, guys.

647
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:33,860
I just got word.

648
01:15:33,860 --> 01:15:39,300
Jason's son is on the way, and he said he was going to interview with us.

649
01:15:39,300 --> 01:15:42,700
Hold on.

650
01:15:42,700 --> 01:15:44,420
He's coming to the phone right now.

651
01:15:44,420 --> 01:15:46,540
I have his assistant on right now.

652
01:15:46,540 --> 01:15:47,900
I thought he wasn't going to make it.

653
01:15:47,900 --> 01:15:49,700
I just went offline.

654
01:15:49,700 --> 01:15:59,180
And hold on.

655
01:15:59,180 --> 01:16:07,180
All right.

656
01:16:07,180 --> 01:16:16,140
So I just got news because Mike in space was distracted and didn't actually report
the

657
01:16:16,140 --> 01:16:19,780
Daily Mempool.

658
01:16:19,780 --> 01:16:29,860
Justin's son was involved in a Bitcoin transaction accident that delayed him to such
a degree

659
01:16:29,860 --> 01:16:33,940
that there was no way he could make it to this interview tonight.

660
01:16:33,940 --> 01:16:43,540
And he's just backlogged and his entire office is in chaos right now.

661
01:16:43,540 --> 01:16:44,740
Come on.

662
01:16:44,740 --> 01:16:48,340
We're going to go to our re-correspondent to see what his reaction is.

663
01:16:48,340 --> 01:16:56,860
Pokes, what is the reaction?

664
01:16:56,860 --> 01:16:59,060
I know I feel the same way.

665
01:16:59,060 --> 01:17:02,580
Mike, you got to take the headphones off.

666
01:17:02,580 --> 01:17:04,060
Anyway, goodbye, everybody.