1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Hello everyone, this is Adam Meister, the Bitcoin Meister, the Disrupt Meister, welcome 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,880 to the OneBitcoin Show. 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:28,200 Today is June 30th of 2026, strong hand, value your wealth in Bitcoin, buying over crying, 4 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:34,800 offended by selling, one day closer to an all-time high, and Bitcoin always returns 5 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,120 to its all-time high. 6 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:42,360 All right, strong hand people, you know I've been waiting for this moment since 2018. 7 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,360 You know I loved it in 2017 when they were giving us those free forks and I came up with 8 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:51,440 the term crypto dividend, it's a one-time crypto dividend when they create the B-cash, 9 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:58,120 the B-gold, the B-this, the B-that, the eCash that's coming out now on August the 21st, 10 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:03,560 if all goes well and if something goes wrong it'll be in November, oh yeah, Paul Sztorc 11 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:10,560 like sports is here to talk about eCash, he's a long-time Bitcoin guy, he's been here probably 12 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,160 longer since I've held Bitcoin since 2013, I think he's probably been here longer than 13 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:21,240 me, but we're here to talk about the eCash, we'll be getting it for free baby if we do 14 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,160 everything right. 15 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,440 So Paul, welcome to the OneBitcoin show that I used to do every day but now I just do every 16 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,480 once in a while because yeah, whatever, how are you doing? 17 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,280 I'm doing great, thanks for that incredible introduction. 18 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:40,840 All right, all right, so we're going to go over how this is exactly going to work because 19 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,400 there's a lot of people that have not been through this before, they weren't around in 20 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:51,000 2017, in fact, I want everybody to go to eCash.com, that's his site, but he does, it's linked 21 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,520 to below and his Twitter is linked to below, he does a Twitter space every week and they're 22 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,440 very informative and he's very calm and he answers, he's a good explainer of things. 23 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,000 Now he's a tech guy, so sometimes things get kind of complicated, so I'm going to try to 24 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,360 bring it down to a non-tech level here, so I want people just to check that out, he's 25 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,760 going to do one later in the day on Twitter and they're a lot of fun, although it's really 26 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:22,120 weird to listen to a Twitter space on your laptop because it just keeps cutting off and 27 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,720 they need to work on it, I think they just want people to listen on their phones. 28 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,960 Anyway, pound that like button everybody, first of all, you're the drive chain, say 29 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,680 why you're doing this first and then we'll go into the logistics. 30 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:40,320 Well, you know, I think Bitcoin is kind of doomed if it doesn't reach 8 billion users, 31 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Satoshi has this quote where he says in 20 years there's either going to be a very large 32 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:50,680 transaction volume or no volume, and he said that about 17 years ago, so it's more than 33 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:56,080 just drive chain being a good idea, in the Bitcoin community the culture has become defective 34 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:02,760 and it now rejects every good idea, so even simple ideas like Opcat, which were in the 35 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,080 original client and there were only 13 lines of code and all these people stalked everyone, 36 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:12,640 so we've just become a deranged community, we take a lot for granted, a lot of people 37 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,360 just say it's a foregone conclusion that Bitcoin will succeed, I don't think any of that's 38 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:22,160 true at all, I think we have to work really hard, we need adoption, we need network effect, 39 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,080 our competitors are going to be innovating as fast as they possibly can, this includes 40 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,920 all stable coins, this includes the fiat currencies, this includes WeChat Pay, so everyone is in 41 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:35,680 a big race, I see it, to get to 8 billion users and until we reach that point we won't 42 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,600 be safe and so we need, that's what we need, and so we need innovation, we need people 43 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,920 who are going to work hard, we need a lot of stuff and I don't think we're going to 44 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,080 get it in BTC. 45 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,800 I think it's very interesting you point out the derangement, I think the derangement has 46 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,600 always been there, I call it the Bitcoin inquisition, if you're not pure all these people come after 47 00:03:54,600 --> 00:04:00,040 you, but the funny thing is, we only know about this in Twitter land, there are people 48 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:06,200 that are, they don't even know what a fork is, there was a guy on your Twitter space, 49 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,400 he was skilled enough to be on a Twitter space, but he actually thought that you were creating 50 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:16,800 this e-cash and it would automatically replace his Bitcoin and so, do you remember that guy? 51 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,320 I mean, you've had all, we'll talk about the lovely people, I've had some weird people, 52 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,560 oh there are some crazy people, there are these people obsessed, they made a meme coin 53 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:32,880 on Solana about e-cash and so they somehow convinced you, okay, it's free marketing for 54 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,960 e-cash, but it's not e-cash, so when e-cash gets created some of them are going to get 55 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:46,520 Every darn time these Solana people are asking you about this Bitcoin, it's nonsense, it's 56 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:52,840 a joke and it's, let's focus, and so I'm about to say let's focus, I'm not focusing at all 57 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:58,920 here because I'm letting these things distract me, but so okay, you're frustrated with Bitcoin, 58 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:05,520 drive chains basically allow, I mean, I want to do a simple explanation, lets you do all 59 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,360 sorts of Ethereum type of things on it, lets you build all sorts of stuff on top of Bitcoin 60 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:15,960 and miners get paid more instead of, because one of the fears is that miners are not going 61 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,240 to want to mine Bitcoin anymore because it's not going to be enough money and this is going 62 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,640 to be another source of income, this drive chain thing, drive chains were never implemented, 63 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,840 so now you're saying, okay, I'm creating, I'm forking off my own Bitcoin and it's going 64 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,680 to have drive chains and so maybe it will become, and it's going to be called e-cash, 65 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,680 I don't like the name because there was already an e-cash fork which leads to confusion, but 66 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:48,840 whatever, and those freaks are angry and of course the worshippers of Craig Wright are always angry, 67 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:55,560 but one of the things that you think could happen is that, well, maybe people will see 68 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,600 how awesome drive chains are on this fork and they'll just implement it on Bitcoin and then 69 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:06,040 your fork would be, you would almost admit that it would be worthless at that point, correct? 70 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,920 That's right, so it's kind of like there's a built-in trap door to get out of any criticism 71 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,480 of this project which is that you could just, you could try to kill the project at any time 72 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,000 by doing what I was doing for the last 10 years, trying to say we should just have 73 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:29,160 the 300 drive chain L2s on Bitcoin, so yeah, the sidechain idea is very old, 74 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,280 like of course Blockstream and all these people, but even like in 2013, this idea was just the 75 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:38,600 answer to what if we want to change the protocol and it was like, well, we can have a different 76 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,880 protocol that's also blockchain, people can send their coins there, we can have as many as we want, 77 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:50,680 this is a very old idea, Satoshi himself invented merge mining and it's been in use since 2011 78 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:56,600 continuously, we merged my name coin for example, so all this idea of there being many different 79 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:02,120 chains that have some connection but are mostly independent, that idea is much older 80 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,280 than the altcoin idea, the idea that there would be a litecoin or that there would be like a name 81 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:11,320 coin or that there would be, so this idea was kicked around for a very long time and I was 82 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:17,480 happy to wait because BTC has done very, very well, the price has gone way up, overall things 83 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:23,880 have gone very well for BTC over the last 15 years, but now I think there's just no way up 84 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,520 from here, we can't get to the next level, like if you had these levels of just like, 85 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,760 down below you're getting like level one, level two, that's like being worth 10 cents or being 86 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,640 worth one dollar, this is like, is the project a joke, is it real, then when you get to the top 87 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,840 level you have to be like, is it used by 8 billion people, so we can't get there with, we have 88 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:51,320 all these types of people, we have miners who are very apathetic and absentee, we got crazy Michael 89 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Saylor, we got all these other, we got crazy Twitter people, the official policy, you were 90 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:03,560 talking about the Twitter bubble, Ava Chao, so Ava Chao is like an extremely senior dev person, 91 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,080 they were telling me, oh like if something's controversial on Twitter we just won't touch it, 92 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,920 we won't, then you know other people, people who work at Blockstream are like, oh that's not true, 93 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:21,960 why would they say, why would anyone, why would I say that Ava Chao said that, meanwhile Ava 94 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:27,720 Chao has tweeted this publicly, so the whole thing is a giant tangled mess and I don't think it can 95 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,880 be fixed with just argument and persuasion at this point, I think we are too far gone. 96 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,480 Well there's two things I wanted to nitpick on there real quick, because I do want to get to like, 97 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,680 but you know, you're creating a, I wouldn't say it's a friendly fork, but it's not an evil fork, 98 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:51,080 you don't want to kill Bitcoin, there's that, you said the Tractory, it could 99 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,800 implement what you wanted and then yeah, then that would be cool. 100 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,960 Yeah, it's a demonstration, in addition to a competitor, it's also kind of a demonstration 101 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:05,000 of what BTC could do, or it could be, so I think that's a good thing, it's until you have a real 102 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,680 demonstration with like all the details ironed out and like this is exactly what it would look 103 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:15,000 like, it's much harder for people to make up their mind about whether or not it's something 104 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,360 they would support. But now let's talk about one thing, you keep bringing up the 8 billion, 105 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,000 and I don't think in, to be successful it needs to reach 8 billion people, 106 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,840 and also there's the question of ossification, and I am a fan of ossification because 107 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:36,440 if you take the, let's take the United States dollar right now, the United States financial 108 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:43,400 system, we have a president who stepped in, who keeps on changing policy all the darn time, 109 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:49,800 and financial markets, what they love beyond anything is stability and predictability, 110 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,120 so that's what I think Bitcoin, one of the things I personally love about Bitcoin, 111 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,320 and I value about Bitcoin, I know it's going to be the same now as it is going to be in 10 years, 112 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,680 the financial policy isn't going to change, there's not a Ben Bernanke, there's not a, 113 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,520 they're not changing the interest rate every month, you don't have to worship one individual 114 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,640 that's going to say some mythical thing about an interest rate, you know what Bitcoin is, 115 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,680 so I think some people are like, it's very difficult to make a change unless Bitcoin's 116 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:25,640 about to die or something like that, like a quantum change, I could see being made very 117 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,520 quick, like okay, it's obvious we're on the verge of quantum, we need to do this, 118 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:36,760 now when you analyze the changes that you have suggested, they're really not going to change, 119 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,200 they're not going to change what Bitcoin exactly is at its core financially, and there's still 120 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,000 only going to be 21 million, et cetera, et cetera, so that stability will still be there, 121 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:53,560 but they're going to be, the argument for ossification, like you aren't, is there, 122 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:59,000 because it's just like, people love predictability, and it is the most predictable 123 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:06,760 financial asset in humanity right now, and some might say, well, a lot of people aren't 124 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,560 going to understand what you want to do, so there are going to be some big people on Wall Street 125 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:14,040 that are going to be like, oh no, it's changing, if they actually implemented your BIP, if they 126 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:20,200 actually implemented your BIP, so that's one thing holding back implementation right there, 127 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:26,760 I just want to say that, and then I personally, I think that the market has spoken, and that 128 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:32,840 most people just want to buy and hold, and then there's a whole lot of other people who can't 129 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:38,360 even do that, who their way they're exposed to Bitcoin is through Michael Sandler, which is not 130 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,480 a wise thing to do, because always buy the underlying asset, people, that's one of my 131 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,240 sayings here, pound that like button, if you've got questions, type them in the chat, by the way, 132 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:53,240 people, always buy, so again, a lot of people blame Sandler for all these problems, people have to 133 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,840 take personal responsibility here, you don't have to buy his fake thing, well, yeah, of course, 134 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,240 people should have bought the underlying, you could go to Coinbase, it's so simple, 135 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,680 so sorry, I've rambled on there, I don't know if you want to, you know, push back on the 136 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,800 ossification, I grabbed a pen, and I wrote down, so I got four points that I think you made, 137 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,280 the last one about Michael Sandler, I mean, this is a basic finance 101 idea that, you know, you 138 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,520 should have comparative advantage, if you go down to the bakery and buy some bread, it should be 139 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:28,120 because it's much easier for them to bake good bread than it is for you, and so that's, the trade 140 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,000 is always a good deal for both people, and the fundamental problem with the treasury companies 141 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,360 is that it's very, very impossible to believe that him buying Bitcoin is better than you buying 142 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,320 Bitcoin, because he's got all his agency costs, he might lose the coins, he's got to pay for lawyers, 143 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:48,040 he's got to pay for his private jet or whatever, so he's got to pay taxes, he's got to do, you know, 144 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:54,120 stock reports or whatever else they're doing, so it's basically not possible, and that means 145 00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:02,200 instead of being beneficial for both parties, it's got to be harmful to at least one, possibly both, 146 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,800 but, so this is the game he's stuck playing with respect to, like, preferreds versus debt versus 147 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,880 convertible debt versus the underlying shares versus the coins, it's kind of like, no matter, 148 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,840 no matter what he does, since he's just rearranging things, it's very hard for it to 149 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,240 add any value, and so, but people thought, he built this cult around himself, so of course people 150 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:27,800 thought temporarily that what he was doing was actually something that was useful, and that 151 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,080 caused all these other people to copy him, to emulate him to their demise, this would be like, 152 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,760 you know, MetaPlanet, NACA, whatever, everyone thought this is a huge distraction for the 153 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,480 for the entire industry, so that's unfortunate. Now, okay, to go back to the first point 154 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,040 about, well, okay, let's go to the second point, the ossification point, very important point, 155 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,200 which is that, I think, you know, side chains are honestly the optimal form of ossification, 156 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:55,320 I think it's a, it's basically a myth that something can just persist for the sake of 157 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,800 persisting, I don't think that that, you know, has ever been true, I mean, you can maybe think 158 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:05,240 of a couple things like Arabic numerals, like, but they're, they persist because they're really, 159 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,640 really, really good at their job, they're perfectly, they're perfectly matched, you know, 160 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,880 they're much better than a Roman numeral, where you have to maybe subtract, and it's hard to do, 161 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:20,760 or, but, you know, even stuff like a language, where keeping the definitions consistent is ideal, 162 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,600 even then, the language constantly is evolving, you can have words like Kafka-esque, 163 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,680 or you have, like, the clavicular, like, looks maxing, like, slang, there's always slang, 164 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:36,360 there's always, there's always jargon, it's very, very, it's a total myth that we all speak 165 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:43,080 one language, like, there's a whole branch of Bitcoin jargon, econ jargon, where people don't 166 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:48,040 know about this, people know about, like, what is a Pareto improvement, or, you know, what is a 167 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,880 put-call option parity, or something like that, so, like, so there's all this jargon, 168 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,480 these things are constantly evolved, the challenge is, if you have something like 169 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,760 the Roman Empire, which is, it has, it appears stable for a very long time, and then the Black 170 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:09,400 Swan event kills it off completely, it turns out, becomes maximally unstable at that point, 171 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,440 so that's the, that's the challenge is, you know, do you, how can you maintain as much stability 172 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,880 as you can, while also accommodating for stuff like innovation, the world changing around you, 173 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,920 you know, when Bitcoin was invented, I don't think that many people even had a smartphone, 174 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:30,760 because what the iPhone was, like, 2000, maybe, like, 2008 or something was the first iPhone, 175 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:36,520 I don't know the exact year, but, so the world's changing a lot, internet speeds improve, 176 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:43,880 people's expectations change, the fiat currencies continue to commit suicide, so it's like, 177 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,120 there's lots and lots of dynamism in the world, and you have to process it somehow, and the side 178 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,600 chain says you can keep L1, you can keep all the L2s, and you can always add a new L2 whenever 179 00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:01,080 you want, when you add a new L2 side chain, it does not affect any of the previous ones, so this 180 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:09,640 is the perfect way of keeping L1 the same, while still allowing for experimentation. As you point 181 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:15,560 out, though, instead of having this on BTC, which would be ideal, I have to create it in this new way 182 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:22,440 with something else, so that is, that would be a new, you know, that would be something that's not 183 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,720 very ossified when you hard fork and create a completely new asset, but I think, unfortunately, 184 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,800 in this case, it's an extraordinary circumstance, because we have kind of, I don't know what other 185 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:40,360 options we have, because it's been a really long time, BTC is not adding any, even something like 186 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:46,440 opcat, which is very simple and very beneficial, you know, that that's not going to help, 187 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,600 so it's not going to help if we live in a situation where we can't even get that, 188 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,400 after years and years of debate, we have people talking about 110 and all, we have people talking 189 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,240 about all kinds of nonsense, so ultimately, I think that this is an issue. This relates to the 190 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:06,680 other point about buy and hold, which is that it's not, it's a chicken and egg problem, it's not that 191 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,920 people have decided that all they want to do is buy and hold, it's the entire ecosystem is set up 192 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,760 so that only buy and hold is like the easy thing to do, it's like you have a Swiss army knife and 193 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:23,400 everything else is rusted away, except for the bottle opener or something, so it's like, okay, 194 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,760 people prefer to only use this thing, but it's because all the other stuff doesn't work, 195 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:34,280 you know, we've had lots of, so 110 is a perfect example of that, about not only do we not 196 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,120 seek growth, we don't seek growth, we don't seek adoption, we don't seek new customers, 197 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:44,120 we're not trying to please the customers, we're not trying to keep people happy, we're not trying 198 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,960 to get more transactions, instead we chase these people away and we say it's bad if you use 199 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:54,360 Bitcoin in a certain way, it has to be approved by Luke, or it's not a valid use of Bitcoin, so 200 00:17:54,360 --> 00:18:02,200 we chase, we're actively chasing customers away, we chase, we have terrible technology that doesn't 201 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,920 work, such as the lightning network, there's a huge amount of time and money that's been invested in, 202 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:12,280 basically doesn't work, and then you have this kind of sour grapes attitude with respect to 203 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,040 stuff like privacy, Zcash, or somebody say, oh, we never wanted that, you know, Ethereum, 204 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,680 we never wanted smart contracts on Bitcoin, even though, of course, in the past everyone wanted 205 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,920 privacy on Bitcoin, everyone wanted smart contracts on Bitcoin, everyone wanted transactions, 206 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:32,680 so this is just the, this pessimism has set in over 17 years of failure, but I think that that 207 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,680 could reverse it very easily, if, you know, one clue that it has reversed is that stable coins, 208 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:46,280 those are taking off, those get enormous use and enormous adoption, stable coins are mostly USDT, 209 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,160 which is on Tether, which is on the Omni protocol, that was originally something called Mastercoin, 210 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,760 that was on BTC, all this was originally a BTC project, the whole thing was originally a BTC 211 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:02,760 Maximus project, and it only left kicking and screaming, it got dragged onto these other 212 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:08,280 chains, onto Ethereum, where it mostly is now, and Solana, and Tron, so that shows you that there 213 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:15,400 is some adoption for some crypto stuff, where it's a US dollar, but you have your own private 214 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:21,800 keys, you roll their own, you know, when you have your own 12-word seed phrase, so I think it's 215 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:28,200 not true that people have decided like a priori that they only want to buy and hold, I think that's 216 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:34,600 just because, it's just a function of the fact that we failed to produce useful software in Bitcoin, 217 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,240 and then we cope about it, I think, that's what I think. Well, I gotta give you credit on something 218 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,480 here, I love that I'm gonna get a free coin, and I'll be able to turn into Bitcoin, but you have 219 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:52,920 conviction in your beliefs on what Bitcoin should be, and one of the good things about Bitcoin is 220 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,200 that if you really think things aren't going your way, and you really believe you have the right 221 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:05,240 idea, you just simply fork off, you're not, you're not like, you're not going crazy on people, you're 222 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:11,240 not attacking, you're not trying to make laws, and you know, some of these people are, I mean, 223 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,120 they're demagogues, they're, I don't know, they want to be members of cults, they want strong 224 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:22,120 leaders, and stuff like that, they want some centralized thing, you're taking decentralization 225 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:29,080 and conviction to its logical end here, so I really do give you credit, and it will be 226 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:37,000 interesting to experiment with these drive chains on your fork, but let's get 227 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:43,320 into exactly what's going to happen on August 21st, because I think a lot of people 228 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:50,200 need a simple explanation. In order to get the coin, we're going to have to use your software, 229 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:57,160 and basically type in our private keys of our Bitcoin, which is a very, obviously, a dangerous 230 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:03,720 thing to do, and you even do not recommend doing that right away. You say, you know, 231 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:11,320 just don't just trust me, see if it's actually working for people, but with, and replay, 232 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:16,920 replay protection is a complicated matter that a lot of people aren't going to understand, 233 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:23,240 that, you know, you can explain it, but like, if I've got 10 Bitcoin that day, all right, I've 234 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:29,080 got 10 Bitcoin that day, the fork happens, then the next day, I move my 10 Bitcoin, let's say, I move 235 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:35,880 my 10 Bitcoin to another address. What happens if I take the private key of where the Bitcoin 236 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:43,800 used to be, and put it into your software? Will I have my e-cash? No, you will just have an address 237 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:50,280 where the e-cash used to be, because the e-cash will move in tandem with the BTC until it's split 238 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:57,000 off. There's no guarantee than that, but I think that since the same transaction is valid 239 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,840 on both networks, and it's free and easy to collect the transaction fee on both, it's almost certainly 240 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:11,880 what would happen. All right, so the e-cash can keep, unless you type in your Bitcoin private key 241 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,480 into the... Yeah, I think a lot of people probably won't, you know, do that, and they may, and so it 242 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,840 will be bizarre, because there will be a lot of people who will not be splitting on day one, because 243 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:29,160 it is a risk, and I think there will be a lot of people who do not, who still transact, they will 244 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,760 still be transacting in BTC, which means the same transaction will be happening on e-cash, 245 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,600 and so there are a lot of people be ending up getting new e-cash even days after the fork, 246 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,000 and to some extent, it will be like a kind of weird Dropbox folder that's like synchronized, 247 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,800 and so then people, so people have to decide what they want to do. Now we see why in the past, 248 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:58,040 like there would be a fork, like a bgold fork or whatever, and a year later, 249 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:05,240 if you typed in your, I'm pretty sure if you typed in your private key, but you knew your Bitcoin, 250 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,880 you would get your, you get, your bgold would still be there at the old address, 251 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:15,480 even if you had moved, so why won't that happen this time? Well, that was because of something 252 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:22,360 called the transaction replay, which I'm not sure the exact decision-making process in BCH, 253 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:29,000 but for whatever reason, at kind of the 11th hour, BCH decided that they wanted to split to, 254 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,560 they wanted on their fork day, which was happened to have been August 1st, 2017. 255 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:41,240 On the fork day, yeah, exactly. The coins would split, and then they would never move 256 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:48,280 again unless you use the BCH software. Why can't you do that? Why can't you do that? 257 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:54,280 We could, but I just think that it's not the best, in the best interest of the project, 258 00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:00,840 that kind of thing. I like there to be stakes, so I like there to be, one thing I would prefer 259 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,400 is that people researched a lot of stuff in advance, they became knowledgeable about the 260 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:12,600 fork before it happened, and made a decision in advance, whereas the, when you do it like that, 261 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,000 the project's like sort of waiting for you for years. I don't know if that's actually what's 262 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,360 good for the e-cash project, so that's one reason. Another reason is that you're kind of cutting off 263 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,720 the people who haven't made a decision, so those people who haven't decided to split, 264 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,440 or they haven't decided I prefer one or the other, you know, philosophically, they're kind of 265 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,800 indifferent, so they should really just move, you know, when they move one coin, they should be 266 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:46,440 moving both coins, because they've chosen to be, to not take a side, which I think is 100% fine, 267 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,640 I think that's great. There are some other reasons as well, it just like, I think it, you know, 268 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,360 I think it just gives people a little nudge, and it says, hey listen, make a decision, don't just, 269 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,560 it's kind of like when you, in a romantic relationship, 270 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,480 if someone gives someone an ultimatum or something, you know, it says listen. 271 00:25:03,814 --> 00:25:30,814 Such and such by this, by this date, or whatever, this is, you know, it just forces clarity on the issue, I just think it says, you know, if you, you either think this is a good idea, in which case, you want to accumulate only the eCash, or you, some, maybe more eCash than BTC, or you think it's a bad idea, and you want to sell, and I have less respect for people who just say, well, you know, I'm going to kind of just, if that's what you want to do, then that's fine, but you don't care about having one or the other, you know, I think it's a good idea, I think it's a good idea. 272 00:25:30,814 --> 00:25:52,574 So, let's go over this scenario, I got my 10 Bitcoin, I obviously, I do not want to put my private key into the, into your software on day one, but how about this, I got my 10, I take and I move 0.001 Bitcoin to a, to another address. 273 00:25:52,574 --> 00:26:20,574 So, that means I've also moved 0.001 eCash to that address, and then a week later, I type in the private key of that address in there, so, and then it says, hey, in your software, it says you've got 0.001 Bitcoin and 0.001 eCash, and I move my eCash and I move my Bitcoin, is that, is that logical, will that work like that? 274 00:26:20,574 --> 00:26:42,574 Well, we should certainly point out that Bitcoin has change addresses. So, when you have a UTXO, that's like 10 Bitcoin and you try to move 0.001, what it really does, there's really three addresses, A, B and C. So, if it starts, 10 starts in address A, and you move 0.01, let's say, to address B, it will put 0.01 there, but then it will put 9.99 in address C. 275 00:26:42,574 --> 00:27:11,574 And all three of these addresses, you would control the private key for in this scenario. And that means that in, if you imported private key A into the eCash, there would be zero coins there. If you import private key B, there would be 0.01 coin there. And if you import the private key C, then there would be 9.99 on that one. And if you have some wallet that does them all at once, it will, I don't know exactly. 276 00:27:12,574 --> 00:27:39,574 Yeah, that's very good. So, the one that's got 0.01 at it, I've got my 0.01 eCash and I've got my 0.01, it's split now. You split it, you did it for me. Now, I move one, the other one's safe. There's, it's protected. Nothing can be replayed or anything like that. It's done. Once it's split, it's done. Nothing weird can happen. You don't have to worry anymore, correct? 277 00:27:39,574 --> 00:28:05,574 I mean, what I would do just to bottom line it for people is, now, I don't know if this advice will work for everyone, but as you say, most people buy and hold today. So, most people are not running. This advice may not apply to you if you're like Kraken or Coinbase or something. But if you're a normal person, I would, you know, I would just kind of wait for like a week or two. It should be obvious at that point if we have some kind of, you know, something horrible in the software that's stealing, using people's private key. 278 00:28:06,574 --> 00:28:09,574 You just wait like a little bit until you kind of decide that, okay. 279 00:28:10,574 --> 00:28:16,574 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean that I've waited a time period where it's clear this is, everything works fine. 280 00:28:17,574 --> 00:28:39,574 People are getting away with this. They are splitting their coins and they're not losing their BTC because the private key is a risk. It is a big risk. So, if you're not comfortable with the risk, then just don't do it. And, you know, what you can especially do is you can just say, you know what, I'm buying and holding. If you just buy and hold BTC, well, then as long as you don't move the BTC, the e-cash is also, you've also bought and held. 281 00:28:40,574 --> 00:28:41,574 Yes, yes. 282 00:28:41,574 --> 00:28:52,574 Yeah, yeah. That's for the – you did that favor for the people who can't make up their mind that, yeah, I wish it was more like the B-cash one. 283 00:28:53,574 --> 00:29:06,574 Now, you – I do want to tell people that you have investors. You have prepared a lot of things. This is not – you've talked to exchanges. But everyone's got to spread the word also because this could help the Bitcoin price. 284 00:29:07,574 --> 00:29:26,574 Because people that are from traditional finance, they will just see this as interest on their Bitcoin, a one-time dividend. If they know that it exists, people are going to want to buy Bitcoin because they're going to be like, yeah, in August I'm going to get this – I'm going to get some interest because people love yield. 285 00:29:27,574 --> 00:29:43,574 That's part of the reason people love DeFi and Solana and Ethereum. They love – and staking. Now, again, in the Bitcoin land, if you mention staking, then you get burped at the state by the Bitcoin inquisition. Pound that like button. That was a pretty good one there. I pulled that out of my checklist. 286 00:29:44,574 --> 00:29:58,574 Anyway, so yes, please, people, spread the word that this exists because all these people are like, oh, it's bad for Bitcoin. No, it's good for Bitcoin if people start buying Bitcoin because they think they're going to get an extra coin out of the whole deal too. It's great. 287 00:29:59,574 --> 00:30:09,574 People, just stop making this a religious cult. You're getting an extra coin. Who cares what the heck it's called? Do what you want to do with it. Afterwards, you're getting interest. 288 00:30:10,574 --> 00:30:23,574 If you've got Canadian dollar interest on your dollar bank, United States dollar bank account, you'd be happy. You'd figure out a way to turn those Canadian dollars into US dollars. You'd be very – don't complain when you're getting something for free. 289 00:30:23,574 --> 00:30:29,574 Now, I'm not saying to go buy it at the exchange. If you're getting – I always say if you get something for free, don't buy it, whatever. 290 00:30:30,574 --> 00:30:36,574 Now, they're going to be – anyway, but you know people are going to want to buy your thing just because it's new and it's shining and everything. 291 00:30:37,574 --> 00:30:47,574 So people, do spread the word, and I want to say one of the ways that you're funding this is that they've identified coins that are most likely Satoshis. 292 00:30:48,574 --> 00:30:58,574 So those coins are not – when the fork happens, those coins are going to be given to your developers and stuff to pay them. 293 00:30:58,574 --> 00:31:05,574 Now, a lot of people in Bitcoin for some reason think it's wrong for people to make money, for developers to make money. It's the most insane thing. 294 00:31:06,574 --> 00:31:15,574 We're talking about money here, and some people think it's bad to get rich. It's bad to do well. It's bad to pay people. What a joke. 295 00:31:15,574 --> 00:31:22,574 So I have no – and that Satoshi is Hashem. They think Satoshi, God forbid, is God. They think he's God. 296 00:31:23,574 --> 00:31:32,574 So if you dare mess with Satoshi coins in any way, that you are doing something so horrible, so it's a sin against the cult of Satoshi. 297 00:31:33,574 --> 00:31:38,574 Come on. He's dead. He's a dead man or two dead men. You've got to move on from it. 298 00:31:39,574 --> 00:31:46,574 He's done us all a favor that he is deceased, that he can't come back and change things and sell things or whatever, but this is Paul creating a fork. 299 00:31:47,574 --> 00:31:51,574 Let him do what he wants to do with it. It's his thing. If you don't like what Paul is doing, create your own fork. 300 00:31:52,574 --> 00:32:04,574 Do one like Skinny Legs is doing, that guy, the one – what's his name? Luke Dash Jr., who wore a gas mask to the frickin' Bitcoin conference in Miami. 301 00:32:04,574 --> 00:32:09,574 So this is a person people think is a reliable man that, oh, he knows what he's talking about and everything like that. 302 00:32:10,574 --> 00:32:18,574 So you could go into the preparations that you've made, but I just want to give my opinion out there about this whole Satoshi coin controversy. 303 00:32:19,574 --> 00:32:25,574 I think it's absolutely ridiculous. And so yeah, I'm glad that you can pay the people. 304 00:32:26,574 --> 00:32:29,574 Or if you need to pay exchanges to get on their exchanges, do whatever you want to do. 305 00:32:29,574 --> 00:32:36,574 And yes, if Coinbase tells you they're not ready for you, they're not going to be ready until November, then yeah, you should delay it. 306 00:32:37,574 --> 00:32:43,574 And I also think September is the worst month to do it than November. I do think things will be better by November in terms of the price of Bitcoin. 307 00:32:44,574 --> 00:32:48,574 I think September we could reach the low, the real low. I don't think today is going to be a low. 308 00:32:49,574 --> 00:32:53,574 I think we still have time to reach the low in September. So any thoughts on what I just rambled on about there? 309 00:32:54,574 --> 00:33:02,574 Yeah, I would rather not have there be like tiny delay, like a 10 minute delay when you're at the airport and then delay, delay, delay, delay. 310 00:33:03,574 --> 00:33:10,574 And each time your credibility is getting worse. So I think it's totally fair. We have a target date and we're on track so far. 311 00:33:11,574 --> 00:33:18,574 But if we do delay, I would rather just do one big delay of like a few months. So that's what you're referring to with that. 312 00:33:18,574 --> 00:33:26,574 Now, I think the financing is really one of the better ideas of the of the entire project, which is actually filled with lots of good ideas. 313 00:33:27,574 --> 00:33:36,574 But I think it's even better than what you said, because normally the way it works is people worry about how to finance development over the long, you know, into the future. 314 00:33:37,574 --> 00:33:41,574 But the way this is set up, it really won't need any more development in the future. 315 00:33:42,574 --> 00:33:52,574 It needs development up front and then it will mostly be fine because the L2s, you know, they are we're taking stuff from Altcoin world that already exists or, you know, solving. 316 00:33:53,574 --> 00:34:00,574 If someone has a pressing issue, they can, you know, either write the software themselves or fund people who write the software that solves their problem. 317 00:34:01,574 --> 00:34:08,574 So really, it will be kind of more on autopilot once it's done. But of course, it did take a little bit of effort to prepare. 318 00:34:08,574 --> 00:34:14,574 And so we raised the money in. We raised three million dollars in late 2022. 319 00:34:15,574 --> 00:34:19,574 We use that money to pay the developers already and we still are. 320 00:34:20,574 --> 00:34:24,574 And we have other stuff like we have our bug bounty contest and we have all these other things that we do. 321 00:34:25,574 --> 00:34:28,574 We sponsored like, you know, conventions and things. So we do that. 322 00:34:29,574 --> 00:34:34,574 And then now. So really, the coins will go to the investors in when the fork happens. 323 00:34:34,574 --> 00:34:42,574 And this is less than half of Satoshi's coins. The list of which coins are Satoshi's, that long predates me. 324 00:34:43,574 --> 00:34:48,574 That was something Sergio Damon Lerner did like in 2013. And it's very convincing. 325 00:34:49,574 --> 00:34:55,574 I'm not sure people really have looked into it. They think that it's kind of just like some kind of back of the envelope guess. 326 00:34:56,574 --> 00:35:00,574 But actually, it's very, very interesting research that people could read. 327 00:35:01,574 --> 00:35:04,574 And this basically says that all these coins were mined by one miner. 328 00:35:05,574 --> 00:35:10,574 But this is the same person that was mining from the beginning and that this was because the miner had various quirks. 329 00:35:11,574 --> 00:35:15,574 So, yeah, he still has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of e-cash. 330 00:35:16,574 --> 00:35:23,574 He just doesn't have the full 1.1 million e-cash, which he seems to hardly need. 331 00:35:24,574 --> 00:35:27,574 And I think there's plenty of other layers to it as well. 332 00:35:28,574 --> 00:35:32,574 Ideally, when a project launches, it's already mostly finished. 333 00:35:33,574 --> 00:35:36,574 And that prevents you from having to live in this world where you're selling a dream to people. 334 00:35:37,574 --> 00:35:40,574 You say, oh, this is going to be great. You have to promise, make all these promises to people. 335 00:35:41,574 --> 00:35:46,574 When you live in a world based on promises, that world rewards the best sociopaths and the best liars. 336 00:35:47,574 --> 00:35:49,574 These are the people who can lie, promise you a lot of things. 337 00:35:49,574 --> 00:35:52,574 Also just delusionally optimistic people that can promise you the world. 338 00:35:53,574 --> 00:35:55,574 You invest, it doesn't work out. 339 00:35:56,574 --> 00:36:00,574 So the ideal thing is for it to be basically finished in advance. 340 00:36:01,574 --> 00:36:05,574 But if you want anything to be finished in advance, then you have to make it before it's released. 341 00:36:06,574 --> 00:36:08,574 So this is a way around that problem. 342 00:36:09,574 --> 00:36:16,574 When you privatize the hard fork, it gives people a new incentive to create these high quality forks in the first place. 343 00:36:16,574 --> 00:36:18,574 So now we may have many people copy. 344 00:36:19,574 --> 00:36:24,574 And once this idea becomes, once people figure out how great this idea is, there might be a lot of people copying this. 345 00:36:25,574 --> 00:36:28,574 As you were saying in 2017, there was many people copying Bitcoin Cash. 346 00:36:29,574 --> 00:36:32,574 So we could have lots of people doing this Satoshi half airdrop fork idea. 347 00:36:33,574 --> 00:36:35,574 We could have 10, 15 high quality ones. 348 00:36:36,574 --> 00:36:38,574 Each person stepping up to the plate and trying some idea. 349 00:36:39,574 --> 00:36:40,574 And so this is free money for all Bitcoin. 350 00:36:41,574 --> 00:36:42,574 Yeah, yeah. Oh, it would be so great. 351 00:36:42,574 --> 00:36:44,574 God, please let that happen. 352 00:36:45,574 --> 00:36:48,574 Let other people use their versions of Satoshi coins or whatever. 353 00:36:49,574 --> 00:36:51,574 More forks, more crypto dividends. 354 00:36:52,574 --> 00:36:53,574 It's great. Pound that. 355 00:36:54,574 --> 00:36:55,574 Seriously, pound that like button. 356 00:36:56,574 --> 00:36:59,574 And God, I just forgot something I was going to say about this. 357 00:37:00,574 --> 00:37:02,574 Oh, there's some guy that wants you. 358 00:37:03,574 --> 00:37:06,574 Some of the suggestions, again, people can suggest what they want during these Twitter spaces. 359 00:37:07,574 --> 00:37:08,574 But they're like, you should confiscate. 360 00:37:09,574 --> 00:37:11,574 You should figure out which Bitcoin are sailors. 361 00:37:12,574 --> 00:37:13,574 It's a very funny idea. 362 00:37:14,574 --> 00:37:17,574 I mean, I kind of laugh it off and say that we would maybe do it if we could. 363 00:37:18,574 --> 00:37:21,574 Of course, he bought fair and square and we don't know which are his. 364 00:37:22,574 --> 00:37:23,574 And he can move these at any time. 365 00:37:24,574 --> 00:37:25,574 Satoshis have never moved. 366 00:37:26,574 --> 00:37:29,574 That's one of the criteria for Sergio's thing, which he calls the Patoshi pattern. 367 00:37:30,574 --> 00:37:32,574 None of those coins have ever moved. 368 00:37:33,574 --> 00:37:36,574 Not only are they mined in a weird way, but these are Satoshi's personal super miner. 369 00:37:37,574 --> 00:37:40,574 Sergio has a whole different set of coins, I'm sure, that he mined with his normal CPU. 370 00:37:40,574 --> 00:37:43,574 But he has this super miner that he's keeping that with money. 371 00:37:44,574 --> 00:37:48,574 I want to say something else about how people get this anger on Twitter. 372 00:37:49,574 --> 00:37:51,574 But the normal reaction would just be, oh, this is free stuff. 373 00:37:52,574 --> 00:37:57,574 This is great, which is to say, even in the Bitcoin cash, which was unbelievably controversial 374 00:37:58,574 --> 00:38:04,574 and unbelievably acrimonious split, contentious split of the community, often described as a divorce. 375 00:38:05,574 --> 00:38:16,574 Even in this situation, there was a site where you could track the UTXO set. 376 00:38:17,574 --> 00:38:25,574 And after a year, a year into the BCH split, more than half of the UTXO sets had not moved at all. 377 00:38:26,574 --> 00:38:27,574 So this is the buy and hold. 378 00:38:28,574 --> 00:38:31,574 Literally, most of the money was indifferent. 379 00:38:31,574 --> 00:38:34,574 And that was something that everyone had an opinion on. 380 00:38:35,574 --> 00:38:36,574 But it was a fake opinion. 381 00:38:37,574 --> 00:38:38,574 It was on Twitter. 382 00:38:39,574 --> 00:38:40,574 This was a lot of noise being made. 383 00:38:41,574 --> 00:38:42,574 Most normal people are like, you know what, I've invested in this. 384 00:38:43,574 --> 00:38:44,574 I know it's still early days. 385 00:38:45,574 --> 00:38:46,574 I'm just going to wait and see what's going on. 386 00:38:47,574 --> 00:38:49,574 So that was more than half of the UTXO set. 387 00:38:50,574 --> 00:38:53,574 Now, I have to hasten to add a couple other things to that, which is that if you moved, 388 00:38:54,574 --> 00:38:58,574 as you were saying before, if you move like 0.01 coins, because of the way change addresses work, 389 00:38:58,574 --> 00:39:00,574 it looks as though you split the entire thing. 390 00:39:01,574 --> 00:39:07,574 So even if you only sold like 1%, it looked on that website as if you split 100% of your coins. 391 00:39:08,574 --> 00:39:11,574 But even still, that was saying that more than half were unsplit. 392 00:39:12,574 --> 00:39:15,574 So really, probably more than like 90% were really actually unsplit. 393 00:39:16,574 --> 00:39:17,574 It's hard to smell for sure. 394 00:39:18,574 --> 00:39:23,574 But on top of that, there were people who, this is a conversation between Jameson Lopp and Eric Voorhees, for example. 395 00:39:24,574 --> 00:39:27,574 They had announced SegWit2x back in May 2017. 396 00:39:28,574 --> 00:39:33,574 And Jameson Lopp asked on Twitter, so hey, is SegWit2x still happening now that we have... 397 00:39:34,574 --> 00:39:39,574 Because BCH launched as like its own weird project in August when none of the large blockers knew anything about it. 398 00:39:40,574 --> 00:39:44,574 So it launched in August and Jameson Lopp was like, hey, is anyone still doing SegWit2x? 399 00:39:45,574 --> 00:39:46,574 Because there's this Bitcoin Cash thing. 400 00:39:47,574 --> 00:39:51,574 And all these large blockers replied to him saying, no, of course not, Jameson. 401 00:39:52,574 --> 00:39:53,574 Of course no one's doing Bitcoin Cash. 402 00:39:54,574 --> 00:39:55,574 SegWit2x is the real thing. 403 00:39:55,574 --> 00:39:58,574 Then only later in November did they cancel SegWit2x. 404 00:39:59,574 --> 00:40:04,574 So you had people who were maybe buying and selling huge amounts of Bitcoin Cash who then undid that. 405 00:40:05,574 --> 00:40:09,574 Again, on the website, this would show us them splitting 100% of their coins, but maybe they really split 0%. 406 00:40:10,574 --> 00:40:23,574 So I think this speaks to the fact that it's theoretically possible that something like 90% of the actual community did not care at all about anything Bitcoin Cash versus BTC or even large block versus small block. 407 00:40:23,574 --> 00:40:27,574 Which is an amazing thing to say because it dominated the company. 408 00:40:28,574 --> 00:40:31,574 As you were saying, there's a difference between these loud people and the truth. 409 00:40:32,574 --> 00:40:34,574 And it is a big illusion that we all have to keep our eye on. 410 00:40:35,574 --> 00:40:38,574 I do remember back then also, which was cool, there were these prediction markets. 411 00:40:39,574 --> 00:40:40,574 And now they're so much more sophisticated. 412 00:40:41,574 --> 00:40:47,574 So I fully expect and hope and you encourage there to be prediction markets on the price of what eCash is going to be. 413 00:40:48,574 --> 00:40:50,574 I think you said it could be built on one of your drive chains or whatever too. 414 00:40:51,574 --> 00:40:52,574 Yeah, but we can't build that until we turn it on. 415 00:40:53,574 --> 00:40:54,574 Exactly. 416 00:40:55,574 --> 00:40:56,574 The Solana token is kind of funny. 417 00:40:57,574 --> 00:40:58,574 That's what I was going to ask you about. 418 00:40:59,574 --> 00:41:05,574 So the reason I did this is because they set it up so that it funnels to me the money, the trading fees. 419 00:41:06,574 --> 00:41:08,574 Even though I didn't create it at all and I had nothing to do with it. 420 00:41:09,574 --> 00:41:15,574 Because the way Solana works or something, they can find your wallet and give you money as the creator. 421 00:41:16,574 --> 00:41:18,574 So even though I did not create it, it's kind of funny. 422 00:41:19,574 --> 00:41:21,574 It's just their term for it, the creator rewards. 423 00:41:21,574 --> 00:41:29,574 But anyway, they've funneled basically like $50,000, $60,000 US in trading fees to this thing. 424 00:41:30,574 --> 00:41:32,574 So what I just said was, I said, listen, we'll treat this as if it's a purchase. 425 00:41:33,574 --> 00:41:38,574 And then we'll feed it back to the top owners of the meme coin. 426 00:41:39,574 --> 00:41:40,574 So you can basically redeem it. 427 00:41:41,574 --> 00:41:45,574 You can collect the dividend, the eCash dividend in the Solana eCash. 428 00:41:46,574 --> 00:41:47,574 So it's kind of bizarre. 429 00:41:48,574 --> 00:41:49,574 But the point is that thing has a tradable market price. 430 00:41:50,574 --> 00:42:03,574 And so that thing, it's highly imperfect because there's issues of how to totally, whether or not everything will happen and how long it will take to happen and blah, blah, blah. 431 00:42:04,574 --> 00:42:11,574 But yeah, that thing, the price is traded at something between anywhere from $50 to $200 per. 432 00:42:12,574 --> 00:42:13,574 Well, that's what I was going to say. 433 00:42:14,574 --> 00:42:15,574 If you back it up. 434 00:42:15,574 --> 00:42:17,574 Who knows if that's totally how reliable that is. 435 00:42:18,574 --> 00:42:21,574 But that is a totally liquid market where people buy and sell and it's kind of small. 436 00:42:22,574 --> 00:42:23,574 All right. 437 00:42:24,574 --> 00:42:28,574 So I was going to ask you because it has jumped around about what it's predicting. 438 00:42:29,574 --> 00:42:31,574 And again, so you're saying it's not the best prediction market. 439 00:42:32,574 --> 00:42:35,574 It's predicting about 0.2 percent of a Bitcoin. 440 00:42:36,574 --> 00:42:38,574 I mean, that was what I averaged. 441 00:42:39,574 --> 00:42:48,574 So that link on your site, it links to eCash.com slash Sol-token. 442 00:42:49,574 --> 00:42:51,574 Do you update that or is that just static numbers? 443 00:42:52,574 --> 00:42:53,574 I should update that. 444 00:42:54,574 --> 00:42:55,574 We should update that. 445 00:42:56,574 --> 00:42:59,574 It's mostly kind of basically accurate. 446 00:43:00,574 --> 00:43:02,574 You have to look up to get the actual thing. 447 00:43:03,574 --> 00:43:07,574 You need to look up what the market cap is of the Solana token, basically, because instead of redeem it proportionally. 448 00:43:08,574 --> 00:43:13,574 You say, well, there's this pool of whatever it is, like 2000 ECX. 449 00:43:14,574 --> 00:43:19,574 And then there's like that's set against the entire market cap of the Solana token. 450 00:43:20,574 --> 00:43:22,574 So it's kind of a silly little thing. 451 00:43:23,574 --> 00:43:31,574 But I'm happy to see that it's above what the investors who are investing with the 3 million round and the 5 million round. 452 00:43:32,574 --> 00:43:36,574 That was like lower than that was like beneath 30 dollars per coin. 453 00:43:36,574 --> 00:43:37,574 So this is like much higher than that. 454 00:43:38,574 --> 00:43:39,574 So I'm kind of happy about that. 455 00:43:40,574 --> 00:43:46,574 See, that's my angle is that all these people are kind of, you know, I'm just saying, listen, it doesn't cost that much money to like write. 456 00:43:47,574 --> 00:43:49,574 It costs money to produce software, but it doesn't cost that much money. 457 00:43:50,574 --> 00:43:52,574 And we're talking like these projects are built, you know, Bitcoin Cash. 458 00:43:53,574 --> 00:44:03,574 And these things are billion dollar, huge, gigantic projects that have a lot of potential for, you know, just R&D, software development, people trying to find product market fit. 459 00:44:03,574 --> 00:44:11,574 So I'm just kind of like, listen, we can just if you can make this and turn it into a positive ROI project, why wouldn't more people do that? 460 00:44:12,574 --> 00:44:13,574 That's something that we should do. 461 00:44:14,574 --> 00:44:20,574 And the problem with the pure fork is that you can't monetize the costs in any way. 462 00:44:21,574 --> 00:44:26,574 So that's again, I think this whole Satoshi half airdrop thing is actually a really, really good idea. 463 00:44:27,574 --> 00:44:29,574 I think you've hit on something, which is that there's a clue. 464 00:44:30,574 --> 00:44:31,574 People hate it a little too much. 465 00:44:31,574 --> 00:44:38,574 And sometimes people really hate a good idea because when you're when you're in when you're collaborating with someone, you want to help them. 466 00:44:39,574 --> 00:44:43,574 But when you're competing with them, sometimes you really want the worst for them and you don't like it when they. 467 00:44:44,574 --> 00:44:51,574 And I think this is kind of triggered people a little bit, you know, because there's an irrational dislike of this extreme dislike of this idea. 468 00:44:52,574 --> 00:44:55,574 It's almost these people are representing themselves as they say they would support the e-cash hard fork. 469 00:44:56,574 --> 00:45:01,574 They would support if only it didn't have this Satoshi, which is a ridiculous, of course. 470 00:45:02,574 --> 00:45:03,574 So there's something that doesn't quite add up about the whole thing. 471 00:45:04,574 --> 00:45:05,574 And I think that's part of it. 472 00:45:06,574 --> 00:45:10,574 But by the way, I would support, you know, you said that it's a unique way of funding other forks in the future. 473 00:45:11,574 --> 00:45:15,574 I mean, we in the past 2017 with a big gold, they did the pre-mine. 474 00:45:16,574 --> 00:45:17,574 I have no problem with if you did a pre-mine. 475 00:45:18,574 --> 00:45:23,574 Is that did you why did you avoid a pre-mine just because it was well, it's a very good. 476 00:45:23,574 --> 00:45:24,574 It's a very good question. 477 00:45:25,574 --> 00:45:30,574 And so there's a lot of like different options and each of them has something bad about them. 478 00:45:31,574 --> 00:45:38,574 Even if we did the pure fork, the pure fork means that basically whoever is like altruistically. 479 00:45:40,574 --> 00:45:46,574 You know, the pure fork says that the haters of the project and the supporters are treated the same. 480 00:45:47,574 --> 00:45:52,574 And it says that anyone who sacrificed extra to make the project happen, like if they really put themselves out on a limb, they took extra risk. 481 00:45:53,574 --> 00:45:54,574 They put in a lot of time. 482 00:45:55,574 --> 00:45:59,574 You know, those people are treated the worst because they paid the most and they got treated the same. 483 00:46:00,574 --> 00:46:02,574 So that's even that has a terrible outcome. 484 00:46:03,574 --> 00:46:08,574 But, yeah, the pre-mine, it was kind of like, well, then you lose the 21 million meme and it's kind of. 485 00:46:09,574 --> 00:46:11,574 That's a good that right there is a good enough excuse. 486 00:46:13,574 --> 00:46:21,574 But in terms of like if you do your fork, there is going to be I predict that you see one of the reasons I'm so excited is because I've been predicting for years. 487 00:46:21,574 --> 00:46:27,574 That someone was going to make some of the FUD out there is like miners don't make enough money. 488 00:46:28,574 --> 00:46:31,574 So we need the Bitcoin 21 million to change. 489 00:46:32,574 --> 00:46:33,574 And so that's a mission. 490 00:46:34,574 --> 00:46:36,574 And so someone would make a Bitcoin that was 42 million or something. 491 00:46:37,574 --> 00:46:38,574 I still think that's on the way. 492 00:46:39,574 --> 00:46:40,574 I encourage people to make. 493 00:46:41,574 --> 00:46:42,574 So, you know, I have no problem. 494 00:46:43,574 --> 00:46:47,574 Someone's going to do a fork and like change the you know, how many are going to exist in all time. 495 00:46:47,574 --> 00:46:49,574 If it's 30 million, 42, someone will. 496 00:46:50,574 --> 00:46:55,574 And maybe they'll be they'll be inspired by you finally getting the forks back on the roll again. 497 00:46:56,574 --> 00:47:00,574 Real quick, there are people that have said there was one guy on your Twitter space. 498 00:47:01,574 --> 00:47:10,574 He comes back every single time and says how horrible an idea it is that you're giving free coins to people who actually own Bitcoin and that seller is going to dump everything. 499 00:47:11,574 --> 00:47:14,574 I don't know. MicroStrategy just might give it out as a dividend. 500 00:47:14,574 --> 00:47:17,574 I don't think I wouldn't be too worried about that at all. 501 00:47:18,574 --> 00:47:19,574 And there's nothing wrong with people. 502 00:47:20,574 --> 00:47:27,574 It's a great marketing thing for people who care enough about Bitcoin, who hold their own Bitcoin to get something for free. 503 00:47:28,574 --> 00:47:30,574 And then they start talking about it and spreading the word. 504 00:47:31,574 --> 00:47:35,574 If you just made up your own for your own coin out of the blue, who would know about it? 505 00:47:36,574 --> 00:47:37,574 Who would care about it? 506 00:47:37,574 --> 00:47:42,574 Like you're giving this coin to like the most conviction type of people out there. 507 00:47:43,574 --> 00:47:44,574 Just the strongest of hands. 508 00:47:45,574 --> 00:47:50,574 And sure, a lot of them have done very well because they've held a hundred Bitcoin for 10 years. 509 00:47:51,574 --> 00:47:52,574 So they're going to get. So what? 510 00:47:53,574 --> 00:47:58,574 It's like envy that these people like the guy goes crazy every time on your space. 511 00:47:59,574 --> 00:48:02,574 Like how can you give these people free? 512 00:48:03,574 --> 00:48:04,574 People have a lot of myths. 513 00:48:05,574 --> 00:48:08,574 Like they think that dumping reduces the price. 514 00:48:09,574 --> 00:48:10,574 But every buy is a sell. 515 00:48:11,574 --> 00:48:17,574 And so there's no such thing as like selling, reducing the price, unless you also want to say that buying reduces the price and vice versa. 516 00:48:18,574 --> 00:48:19,574 So the whole thing kind of doesn't really make any sense. 517 00:48:20,574 --> 00:48:25,574 I think he also doesn't really appreciate like what it would mean if we broke the property right idea. 518 00:48:26,574 --> 00:48:28,574 So of course, like I have a lot of disagreements with Michael Saylor. 519 00:48:29,574 --> 00:48:30,574 I think he's a ridiculous person. 520 00:48:30,574 --> 00:48:35,574 I think he's basically a noob and he doesn't know that much about, you know, even what he bought. 521 00:48:36,574 --> 00:48:37,574 And he certainly doesn't know a lot about technology. 522 00:48:38,574 --> 00:48:49,574 And he's just like basically he plays fast and loose with the truth to the point where some of it is you could be considered like basically fraud at this point. 523 00:48:50,574 --> 00:48:54,574 Where a lot of his, you know, many of his statements he's had to contradict himself, blah, blah, blah. 524 00:48:55,574 --> 00:48:56,574 So I have a lot of problems with him. 525 00:48:57,574 --> 00:48:58,574 I think he's he pointlessly is holding back. 526 00:48:58,574 --> 00:48:59,574 Soft forks. 527 00:49:00,574 --> 00:49:06,574 He has a mistaken view of ossification and he shouldn't really weigh in on what's good for Bitcoin because he doesn't know. 528 00:49:07,574 --> 00:49:10,574 And but, you know, it's all that aside is talk is sort of cheap. 529 00:49:11,574 --> 00:49:12,574 He actually bought he bought the BTC. 530 00:49:13,574 --> 00:49:14,574 He's a Bitcoiner. 531 00:49:15,574 --> 00:49:16,574 So why would we now? 532 00:49:17,574 --> 00:49:18,574 Of course, people will then reply. 533 00:49:19,574 --> 00:49:20,574 They'll say, well, hey, like you're taking half of Cersei's coins. 534 00:49:20,574 --> 00:49:21,574 It's kind of like that. 535 00:49:22,574 --> 00:49:26,574 But again, people have extra paranoia about him that he's going to sell all his e-cash. 536 00:49:27,574 --> 00:49:28,574 He might not know about it. 537 00:49:29,574 --> 00:49:33,574 I mean, it's like, no, there's no guarantee he's dumping all of this new thing. 538 00:49:34,574 --> 00:49:35,574 I think he might distribute it. 539 00:49:36,574 --> 00:49:42,574 I mean, he's in need of it seems like he's there's some financial problems going on there. 540 00:49:43,574 --> 00:49:44,574 So all of a sudden, if you've got this. 541 00:49:45,574 --> 00:49:46,574 He may be a shill. 542 00:49:47,574 --> 00:49:48,574 He may be a super shill. 543 00:49:48,574 --> 00:49:51,574 Because he's this is the thing is because he plays so fast and loose with the truth. 544 00:49:52,574 --> 00:49:53,574 He could say anything like, you know what I mean? 545 00:49:54,574 --> 00:49:55,574 He was saying never sell your Bitcoin for a long time. 546 00:49:56,574 --> 00:49:57,574 Then he was like, I never said never. 547 00:49:59,574 --> 00:50:02,574 Totally gaslighting everyone in a ridiculous and absurd and insulting way. 548 00:50:03,574 --> 00:50:04,574 And then he's like, well, blah, blah, blah. 549 00:50:05,574 --> 00:50:06,574 So we could go down the line. 550 00:50:07,574 --> 00:50:11,574 But the point is come whenever it is August or come November, we could see Michael Saylor on stage saying. 551 00:50:12,531 --> 00:50:22,531 This is the perfect way to keep this Bitcoin ossified. Everyone should do these forks. He could be a huge eCash shill, as far as we know. It's hard to say, I mean, because, you know, of course, he said, you know, there is no second best. 552 00:50:22,531 --> 00:50:35,531 But then he said Monero is actually, you need a Monero. So then he's, you know, he's saying that fiat is a melting ice cube. But then he was Stretch had like this weird stable coin, like altcoin thing attached to it. 553 00:50:36,531 --> 00:50:49,531 So it's impossible to say. And I think he, his word is not worth very much, which is why all this stuff has collapsed recently, which is people realize they can't trust it, what they what he says, no matter what it is, could be good, could be bad. 554 00:50:49,531 --> 00:51:00,531 So I think he has very little integrity, unfortunately. But he that's kind of the point as to why he could just he could just be as you were saying he could just be adopting the rational point of view to say, hey, this is all free stuff. 555 00:51:01,531 --> 00:51:19,531 A lot of these, a lot of these just regular joes that appear on your Twitter space, they don't get I think they might be envious that there are some people that are very famous out there, be it Kathy would Peter diamantes, they're very wealthy people who love Bitcoin, who talk about Bitcoin. 556 00:51:19,531 --> 00:51:35,531 So if they get this for free, and they start talking about it on their podcast, it would it would help you a lot. It'd be a very good. I just did a lot of people that don't understand marketing. They're such technical people. They don't get we you talk about culture in Bitcoin. 557 00:51:36,531 --> 00:51:45,531 There's a lack of marketing understanding of Bitcoin. I'm not worried about the culture, by the way, because everybody defines the culture differently sees it differently in what corner of the space they're in. 558 00:51:45,531 --> 00:51:56,531 So I you're you seem to be very worried about, you know, that Bitcoin culture is going down the toilet. It's just the way you do it. But I just want to say is I think you could agree there's a lack of a marketing savvy in Bitcoin. 559 00:51:57,531 --> 00:52:10,531 And amongst some people that it's almost like they're, they're autistic, like, no, no, no, no, rich person can can't talk about Bitcoin. If a rich person talks about Bitcoin, it's bad. It's bad. No, they've got huge reach these people. 560 00:52:10,531 --> 00:52:38,531 But if Joe Rogan starts talking about, hey, all of a sudden I had some more free, that's great. That's awesome. So I wanted to add that there. And speaking about culture and Bitcoin, the Bitcoin Inquisition, let's add let's end on a bit 110 here with with Luke, that's supposed to happen on August the 9th. Do you think that's going to turn into its own coin? Do you think it's going to turn into a hardware? 561 00:52:38,531 --> 00:53:01,531 Well, by default, it won't. But if we just look at everything that Luke has ever said or written or his personality, and I've known him for many, many more than 10 years. And so what will really what you know, the confident thing we can predict will happen is the mandatory signaling will begin. And no, no one will signal. And so you run knots, even though it's mandatory, your blockchain will just stop there. 562 00:53:02,531 --> 00:53:24,531 At that point, Luke will probably say that this proves that the miners are wicked, irredeemable creatures and that we must change the proof of work. That's another irony is that he'll they will do a proof of work change, whereas he cash keeps almost everything the same like Bitcoin Core. It's very, very, very, it's all as minimally modified it as possible. 563 00:53:25,531 --> 00:53:42,531 There's another reason why it doesn't need ongoing development is it's going to steal Bitcoin's core development. But just like Bitcoin Core is shot to 56D mine, so is Ecash going to be shot to 56D mine. It's the same mining algorithm. But Luke will change his after this idea doesn't work because the idea is just not a very popular idea. 564 00:53:42,531 --> 00:54:09,531 It's an idea. Again, Luke's idea is different from previous soft forks, whereas those were to enable features that users actually wanted to pay transaction fees to use. He's shutting off something that people like. So it's very unlikely that this idea will work. And it's very unpopular. And no one has signaled except for, you know, I think they've rented hash rate to signal what they have signaled, which is like 0.3% or something abysmally low. 565 00:54:09,531 --> 00:54:31,531 So they are in their own interesting little bubble world. And this is the toxicity eating itself. So I think they will then have to create a new hard fork, which will be very interesting because they'll have to face all the challenges that we've faced over like many months of like deciding, oh, what should the name be? What should what should each what date should it be? Which like how do we prepare? 566 00:54:31,531 --> 00:54:51,531 They'll have to kind of decide all of that. Either they'll have to say, well, we're going to do this hard fork in six more months after August after planning it all out, or they're kind of maybe just going to like YOLO it very quickly. I'm not sure. They don't seem to have published any of that information. They still seem to be they still seem to be very confident that 110 will activate. 567 00:54:52,531 --> 00:55:16,531 I've heard that a lot of people in this community secretly want out and they want they need a way to get off this stage saving face. And so they're going to wait for 110 to fail and then just cut and run, which I think that that would make sense for a few people. That's like the cult, you know, like when the doomsday comes and then nothing happens, the rational people leave and then the cult becomes even crazier. But so I don't know. I don't know. We'll see about with 110. 568 00:55:17,531 --> 00:55:25,531 Yeah, well, I hope I hope he goes hardcore and forks it off. We get a cult coin or an anti ordinal coin, whatever you want to call it. 569 00:55:26,531 --> 00:55:35,531 So that gave it a funny name, but I don't remember what it was. It was like, you know, it was like Luke going, but it was something someone had a clever name. And I don't remember what it was. 570 00:55:36,531 --> 00:55:41,531 Well, it would be interesting if it does really if both happen and yours and his happen in August. 571 00:55:43,531 --> 00:55:45,531 I consider it a positive. I think it would. 572 00:55:46,531 --> 00:55:55,531 That's why the Satoshi half airdrop thing. Like, I think this is nothing like theft. Like, you don't want to live in a world where people are always stealing from each other, because then why would anyone own anything worth that worth? 573 00:55:56,531 --> 00:56:02,531 Still, that would be a nightmare. But I think people should copy this idea and do it all the time. We should do this all because this is a creative act. 574 00:56:02,531 --> 00:56:14,531 Make new forks all the time. Yes, Satoshi half keep half for to do whatever you think you can to make the project a success. So, yeah, we'll see. Hopefully it does inspire a new wave of dynamism and creativity. 575 00:56:15,531 --> 00:56:20,531 Well, I got I got to give you credit for coming on the show, given your time today. You're very valuable. You're very busy, man. 576 00:56:21,531 --> 00:56:27,531 I want you to I'm going to leave the floor to you here at the end because there's probably some stuff that has been left out that you want to say. 577 00:56:27,531 --> 00:56:36,531 But it's been very good, people. And he again, the Twitter space is coming up in a few hours. Follow everything is linked to below. Follow him on Twitter is very important. 578 00:56:37,531 --> 00:56:47,531 He's got so so again, we're we're definitely different people here. I, I, you know, Michael Saylor, I don't care that much about him. The Bitcoin culture, quote unquote. 579 00:56:47,531 --> 00:56:58,531 I don't care. I just let I'm a confident decentralist. Let everybody do what they're going to do. If there's a bunch of you know, there's a bunch of people that don't like me because of my religion in in Bitcoin. 580 00:56:59,531 --> 00:57:10,531 I don't care. I know they've been around. I don't try to eradicate them. They're actually people of my religion who try to who there's a guy I know who's like, yeah, I want to get get these Bitcoin people to be less anti-Semitic. 581 00:57:10,531 --> 00:57:25,531 I'm like, dude, just just who cares? Let them have their culture one day. That's the thing we can't kick. That's the beauty of Bitcoin. You I can't take away Bitcoin for people who hate me. It's awesome. And they can't take it away from me, the people who hate me. 582 00:57:25,531 --> 00:57:45,531 So that's a beautiful thing about the unconfiscated aspects of it. So, yeah, but you are an awesome dude. I admire the conviction. I admire that we're going to get this free thing from you. I wish you would make it more like the Bcash fork where but but so people are going to have to wait a lot at first. 583 00:57:45,531 --> 00:58:05,531 So there will be dry runs and there will be coin splitting tools so you could practice with the fake. There will be like basically pre fake e-cash so you could practice on that if you want. I don't know. You wouldn't want to practice with your real BTC private key, but you could you could have one that has like five dollars of Bitcoin. You could practice and then you could get more familiar with it. 584 00:58:05,531 --> 00:58:08,531 Yeah. OK, so here's your closing statement. What have I forgotten? 585 00:58:08,531 --> 00:58:29,531 Yeah, no, I think you're right. Just go to e-cash.com is the site. Follow me on Twitter. We have a Telegram group, t.me slash dcinsiders. It's like drive chain insiders, but it's like a joke. So we're on Telegram. We're on, you know, we got Twitter. We've got all kinds of other stuff. So we're on YouTube. So you can find all that stuff, e-cash.com. 586 00:58:30,531 --> 00:58:37,531 And there's lots of information. So you just have to read and watch the videos, make up your own mind, discuss with friends. Yeah. 587 00:58:38,531 --> 00:58:54,531 All right, dudes. Well, we are we have been excommunicated from the church of Satoshi because we we do not believe in, you know, protecting his e-cash. Oh, the inquisition will come for us soon. So we got to go. So everybody pound that like button. 588 00:58:54,531 --> 00:59:19,531 I'm Adam Meister of Bitcoin Meister Disrupt Meister. Have a great week on Friday. Shabbat shalom. And check out Paul and Jed. Let's get some free free e-cash here. I'm clicking end stream. Let's see. Bye bye, everybody. All right. That should end it. And we are probably it probably on. It looks like we're still on the air.