Okay, it is two o'clock. Now anyone watching the recording or listening to the recording just probably it's better if you just skip like 15 minutes in because the way these normally go is they sort of are slow at the beginning because we have to wait for people to join but then they get really good so I would just skip like 10 or 15 minutes in but I also have my thread now where if we made a thread of things where people want something to be brought up they can add it to the thread and that's what I did and at the bottom I actually posted the link to the next space which will be at 2 on Tuesday so next week it will be on a different day. So I'm just gonna go through my list of things of the week while people join in and hopefully last time we had Justin Bonds who was great he's a Bitcoin Cash Solana guy and we talked about all kinds of cool stuff so hopefully we'll get some cool people today as always we want any any haters or anyone who really just has some strong opinion about whatever they're welcome to join but so first on my list is okay the bug hunt too so remember we're giving away $100,000 over this summer people to find bugs and we had the first one was two weeks long and that one ended 11 people entered now the second one just ended and in fact 10 people entered so that's great and so you want to check the for information about that you in general you kind of want to hang out telegram is good for us you go to t.me slash DC insiders or you can get me on on Twitter you can ask about the bug hunt but we've got some really really good people entering and they're just very skilled so they're gonna win first second third place and it's gonna be hard for other people to compete because they're just they're just that good but the point is the second bug hunt ended now there's new brand new mobile app that is the the next app oh let me see if I can do this okay it's inviting people to co-host or speak because that will help the space survive but the we have a new mobile app which is gonna be really good eCash.com mobile app and again the easiest way to get it is through the telegram group and it's you know you can match the eCash.com site so that will also be a great way to get messages because okay this is on my list of the things I'll skip ahead which is we are in a we live in a zone where like people being deep platform from Twitter because you can just get like a bot you know you have a bunch of people you can rent these bots for like $1 account so I hear but then they just mass report someone and they just get kicked off of Twitter so this happened to Cato the elder 17 is a friend of hunter beast the author of the the basic quantum bit 360 and he apparently was saying some stuff about like how sailors doing all this like creepy stuff behind the scenes and then he got banned who knows but yeah then also a nifty got a let's see nifty got banned right and if do you does Bitcoin plus plus she's great she got banned from whatsapp not from Twitter but she she was just talking to someone in Kenya and they just immediately permanently banned you I guess so that's too bad so it's remind me of a funny story once that a long time ago that Roger Ver told me about oh you know he ran this company memory dealers that sold like optical networking equipment and there was some guy who was like from Nigeria and he was like listen I'll pay in advance I'm from Nigeria but I'm real this isn't like a Nigerian Prince scam because those were very popular at the time but anyway we live in a you know a world where your account gets suspended and this ties into something we did talk about previously about BitNames about bit names changing everything's around so that you own the name and then the account is just something you point to and that way you cannot get the platform but it is kind of weird how Twitter they never like let you get your final say like the account just disappears it would really be better if they were just like this account will be deleted in seven days or something like that so that's a bizarre thing that the account just gets banned and then the the account gets banned and you never hear from them again and they can't even post like they can't even be like oh I'm gonna be banned at seven days you never get to hear anything so yeah I invited hunter up here you just saw him join I was just bringing up Cato the elder 17 and I was just commenting on how none of us have like a property right to our accounts and they can all of us are just basically like impoverished slaves to the the server and we can everything could be taken from us at any time and how bizarre that is yeah do you want to add any details on okay he was he was going to say like some he had like it's some here like a thread of interesting stuff he was going to that he was in the middle of saying yeah he did he did actually eventually published that to a median post and I think in that to the faster yeah okay that's good because of course if someone really doesn't want something to get out that's usually kind of a good sign that there's something something very important they've been trying to say social signal right when they try to use coercion to like shut down what you're trying to say it's like almost rise in effect right yeah means they really care about it for some reason so oh I have my fury about it sorry for interrupting but basically when your company stock is plunging wouldn't it be very convenient if there's rumors that you're tied with the US intelligence and basically you seem like you're too big to fail like it sort of discourages people from shorting the stock because they're gonna think that they're competing with the money printer so wait you're saying that Kato the elder is pushing like start to because you like trying to draw an association to my CEO or something like the students to like boost their stock what's funny about that is like I mean that's that's a nice there's some layers to that conspiracy theory doesn't really explain well why he was talking about what Kato was targeting in particular yeah a lot of these conspiracy theories the problem that there's like a reverse reverse like intent in there and you can never like exactly figure out you know oh they plan to sabotage their own person so that they'll get more sympathy and you're kind of like oh that's it doesn't sound very well thought out but Vlad what do you think I think it makes them look very good even though people are gonna hate them and be like oh they're with the US intelligence whatever it does send a signal to the actual investors who might just get this idea well they have this shadow board where they have XCIA people who have been working there for 20 30 years or whatever and also Kato the elder said something like maybe that strategy is the strategic Bitcoin reserve of the United States so this idea alone is powerful enough to make it look like MSTR is too big to fail well and I think that's the game plan well you know honestly I think that's not like a conspiracy theory more like what's that like strategy is accumulating a bunch of Bitcoin and they're probably working with the feds and they want to have a plan B in case the dollar fails because everyone they seem to be failing I mean they seem to be dragging the whole space down I mean because I you would you could assume I think it's very silly to comment on the price but you know the price has been down and I think it's not that far-fetched to say well hey micro strategy might be forced or tempted to sell because they're in some kind of they're in a slight financial distress and so since everyone knows that they're gonna have to sell why would any you know everyone would wait to buy it doesn't matter what you think about the long run price you think if you think the price of bitcoins going up you think well I'd rather get it at a lower price so I think this is one of those rare rare cases where the price you really can't expect the price to kind of go down if we want the price to go down lower we should totally dial up the point of flood by the way oh yeah draw attention to that there are multiple Bitcoin for some sent active as well yeah well there will be I heard there would be it would be a lot more because there was some quantum news about the like the government put out this thing saying everyone has to accelerate their timelines or something and then Nick Carter tweeted it so I saw probably be raising money on that narrative by the way just you know it's depressing to me it's like someone who deeply distrusts the state but I'm just probably gonna find out that like government the government policy is pointing to where it's accelerating we're just going to do everything where everybody says we we need to be you know it'd be really nice to put that foot to rest by the way I sent you an email yesterday I don't know if you heard or saw I don't know if I have your latest email address I will look it up because but email is rough for me I don't even know oh yeah telegram and Twitter are better for me but I will look I will dig out the email I will look for it okay thank you okay so we don't want any more people's accounts being suspended and relatedly okay so I didn't get to fully announce this but I had a this thing for as far as free samurai is concerned I had this I have this like strategy basically so I was going to publish the strategy and I got actually some funding for it so there's going to be like a whole second contest but I don't want to it's a shame because I really thought it'd be done by now but you know just life gets in the way it's very hard but it's basically like a kind of plan and so I don't know if anyone will like this plan maybe they'll all just hate it but I think it's an improvement over what we currently have which is not working so yeah it's great that we have people with the free samurai tweets but we've been going for a while I think there's no reason why we can't get the pardon for samurai and also for like a whole bunch of other people so I'm going to try to publish my the thrust of my document that I'm going to publish in the strategy is that what we need to do first is we need to have you know someone or ideally multiple people and then I'll pay for this also we have funding in the in the strategy but it's like yeah we need to like basically make it as easy as possible for like Trump's staff so we need to have this whole document that's like as a structure and this organization this whole like pdf like data room thing like set up so that they can tell with like who's voting for what what are the facts of the case what are the narratives so um that's like my plan so to make it so that if one Trump staff member looks at it for five minutes they'll think oh okay this is a winning issue for Trump it'll get more voters there won't be a lot of pushback we can get a photo op with whoever I mean it depends I'll volunteer for the photo op but yeah ideally we'd get like whatever Brian Armstrong or whatever these people that don't to to donate the photo op or I don't know if they would I have no idea that's just an example but my guess is we could get some people together you know we could get like an atom back or something or whatever it is whoever it is we get them all together and we say we can get Trump this photo op we can get we can say nice things or these are the voters this is the voting situation this is the fundraising situation so so that's my idea is to flip get prepare first and then just make it look so that it is clearly a winning issue for whichever party picks it up but ideally Trump so that we could just get it out of the way before November because they will be nervous with the midterm election cycle Trump wants to continue governing by a executive order so that's so I didn't get to finish it in time I really wish that I had and then I hate putting stuff out on the weekend in the summer because I feel like no one will ever see it which is that doesn't really bother me but I just feel like I also I would be like I wouldn't read anything in the you know in the summer and the weekend I'm not really paying attention to this so I just kind of think it's a little bit of a lack of integrity for me to like you know we should all just be having fun in the summer in my opinion my humble opinion so maybe next Monday it's really a shame that I didn't get it out in time but that's that's what I was thinking for free samurai so I don't know if but no one can really comment on it because I didn't finish it so sorry about that next thing on the list there is this okay there's this old clip and this was like buried you couldn't find this after it came out I think like you know Saylor or whoever but there's an old clip of um safety and amuse like versus Michael Saylor kind of and yeah and Saylor has this clip where he's talking about getting say I was like oh you know how safe would you like to get five percent on your bitcoin and then safety and is like you know safety is like much smarter than Saylor which is because I don't I'm not really a big fan of um safety and amuse and the feeling is mutual as far as I can tell um but he's just like well he's talking to Michael Saylor he's like I'd like to get a million percent on hype or something like that and this is just a it's just a really funny clip because it was it was years ago it was a long time ago and yeah it was like where this is right after people were done like where where does the yield come from like all the whole Luna etc all this stuff had like collapsed and I just brought it up because I was talking about it because now everyone's talking about how this is funny because also the timing it's all related to Saylor and it's all related to um you know before I had started criticizing Saylor and I said oh we should you know we can give like a five thousand dollar bounty to anyone who explains to Michael Saylor what a soft fork is and how it like actually solves all his problems and it gives him ossification that he wants he thinks he wants no soft forks but that's actually not a great way to get but then ever since all this has happened now there's been a huge pile on and then all these people are I even saw Pleditor was saying like oh now too many people are criticizing Michael Saylor these are all just like jumping on the bandwagon you know why didn't they criticize for the last two years so this is kind of a funny just a little effect but someone could look up that clip if they can find it it's like really buried it may have been suppressed through clever techniques um but it's a very funny clip and I think in people would people enjoy hearing it um it's just Michael Saylor trying to explain that you can get a free five percent on your bitcoin safety and was trying to explain that you cannot do that because it doesn't make any sense also there's that saying sorry to jump in like there's that saying like if you don't know if you do not do not know where the yield is coming from then you're the yield yeah it's kind of like um these people the people who supported the treasury companies they don't understand like that a basic accounting principle that it's either if the treasury company's buying bitcoin this is something Jim Chanos pointed out many times when he was shorting micro strategy says micro strategy selling stock to you and buying bitcoin for themselves so if you think that that's a good idea then you you should be shorting micro strategy you know really because you want to be doing you want to be buying bitcoin and then and you want to be buying bitcoin you don't want to be buying the paper stock that anyone can inflate and this is a principle in finance this this is why you shouldn't invest you don't invest in someone who invests on your behalf because they have the opposite incentive to you so you should only invest when there's comparative advantage when you say okay listen you know Elon is going to through Tesla Elon is going to take in a bunch of plastic and a bunch of metal and a bunch of electricity and a bunch of battery parts and a bunch of cameras and he's going to build a car and he could do that better than me so I'll give him my I invest and then even I would purchase the car because I can't I'm not as good at making a car as them so this is the basic idea of comparative advantage and the whole reason the investment works because they are doing something that you can't do but I try I also I feel the same you know with with predator and everything I was saying this for years and everyone was like oh you are the worst person Paul you suck and stop talking stop bad mouthing strategy they're just buying bitcoin don't you think that's a good idea but it's like yeah it's because buying bitcoin is a good idea that buying like our strategy is not a good idea this is a basic principle of finance I totally agree like as a matter of fact like I think there's a big fundamental problem with strategy and uh the fact that Michael Saylor keeps saying that they're a bitcoin development company is just actually like it's just not true like they don't do anything they are just basically extracting from the industry and on one hand like I can give them credit because eventually they're trying to bring in you know institutional players they're trying to bring in people to invest but eventually those people are investing into strategy not investing into bitcoin and you know having having said that it's all those treasury companies who are just buying any asset whether if it's you know bitcoin or ethereum they're just putting it on the balance sheet but they don't have any other products or services that are actually making the company useful that it's making good products and services I don't think that they're going to make it and so when this whole big uh wave of of of treasury companies came out to be I was actually in touch with a with a guy who who set this up in in New York and they just basically found companies that they're they were listed on on stock exchanges and their products and services just didn't do anything right like they were like like borderline broke and they all went into this okay let's let's just you know transit the transition the company into a treasury company but you know all of those failed too because you know they didn't fundamentally try anything new with their current products and services and so my biggest fear with with all these treasury companies including strategy is that they're not doing anything and like I said they're extracting but they're not giving back to to bitcoin they're not giving back to the industry they're not helping the development they're not helping the bitcoin core developers they don't know jack shit about uh you know the technicalities of bitcoin um you know if you ask a sailor about any of the bip protocols he has absolutely no clue he has absolutely no idea um and I think like that's something where you know education should be more important you know to these you know billionaire treasury company CEOs because um they just they just don't do much I would completely agree I mean I would say that he has crossed the line into fraud a few times more than a few times where he has he said things that are not true and that he must know are not true and that are like these are like material uh like just there's almost like uh even if you go down the line for like specific lies or even specific inconsistency with things where he just completely contradicts himself like he's constantly saying you know is bitcoin digital credit or is it money or is it he just keeps changing it around where it's not it can't even possibly be true because he keeps changing it and he sometimes contradicts himself in the same interview and so you can't even get anything out of it it's baffling um it's a very much an Austrian malinvestment story where this idea is a fake idea but it has tricked people into thinking it's good so that has created the copycats you know this would be like whatever I can't even remember their name meta planet and uh naka and all these other copycats who are thinking oh this treasury company idea is good well actually it was never good and um this is like really bad news for a lot of people which is you know I you know I'm not happy about that but I just you have to laugh it off you have to process it some way which is that people have been tricked into doing this and it's actually value destroying there's no reason to have someone else you know chew your own food you don't have a comparative advantage like there's no such thing as having a comparative advantage in investing in bitcoin it'd be one thing if they were going to form some kind of hedge fund and then they have some kind of like trading angle or something none of that's true not only is my you know the big lie there's a bunch of small lies and then there's stuff that's just like kind of shameless where it's like bitcoin is hope and then the ai video with the woman who's like oh I'm retiring because I invented interested in stretch this is lowbrow junk but on the other hand there's the big the big lie is that Michael Saylor is portrayed as if he actually knows anything and he's on stage talking to people like he's like he'll get a great speaking slot and then he'll start talking about like what the greatest risk of bitcoin is as if he has the first clue about any of this stuff and you mentioned and don't know that he doesn't know anything about bitcoin development of course he's actually harming bitcoin development enormously with his like bizarre ignorant comments and then even there was from Matt Odell there was like a story about how people were funding development I don't know a lot about this but Matt Odell you know went loudly blew the whistle on this and you were saying that there was a deal for one of the ETF companies was going to like start a bitcoin so this is like micro strategies painted as a quote a bitcoin development company close quote but actually a third party ETF trying to do something nice presumably was going to fund a bunch of bitcoin development and then Michael Saylor killed this deal and then like basically lied about it and probably concealed about in public because of course he's too ashamed to take responsibility for this and so he knows that to some extent it's a controversial decision or a shameful decision and a lot of people went along with it and Matt Odell publicly so the whole thing is quite bizarre and then one of the clues that the idea doesn't actually work is that when Danny added from what bitcoin did Danny just started asking him more questions about people emulating the strategy which is exactly what you would do if it was truly a good idea which is like if you're the first hotel to add electricity you would want the other hotels would be like how does that work and you would say well it works like this you have the you have these you know cables and you have these electrical wires and you have sockets if it's really a good idea everyone should be learning about it and copying it but of course he had a very very defensive and angry reaction when when asked about other treasury companies having preferreds and of course these other companies are down you know all they're all going down like 99 basically which is very sad to watch but it speaks to this malinvestment of the whole the whole idea is not it's not a real idea i don't know we had jk come up i don't know if anyone if you want to talk about this or something else i got more stuff on my list um but we got jk up if he wants to say anything um or not either way uh i also wanted to comment on knots uh or 110 i just wanted to just i just had it in the you know in the list of things to talk about which is it's a very silly idea and i'm sorry it's a very silly idea and they don't even know what they want um so there's parts of it that are good about like criticizing bitcoin core and of course corrupt and they're lazy and they're kind of they just kind of very passive but the 110 people like the the 110 bit doesn't actually do anything like it doesn't prevent spam and they you know they have never understood about this blocks only mode like you could always change your own mempool that that was always allowed or just shut it off blocks only mode because the only thing they actually accomplish is blocking the stuff from the mempool they all agree that it doesn't if it's in the blockchain it'd be valid until 110 but then 110 also doesn't doesn't help so because there's different ways of encoding this data but then there's on top of that the the image the jpeg images actually spam the blockchain less than a regular transaction because they don't have the sig op limit so and then on top of all that even if this was a good idea which is not and even if the implementation would achieve the idea which is also not true there's absolutely there's no like evidence that anyone supports this there's just the tiniest amount of signaling less than one percent and from what i could gather the support they have is actually just rented they just they they just put up some money for the stratum server and they say will you please flip this bit to signal for 110 and so um even before that the whole philosophy of the idea doesn't make any sense because of course previous soft forks were adding new feature they were adding check lock time verify or whatever um and this is subtracting a feature this is saying some people like to do the opera turns so this is just a baffling thing like in the past you could always see how miners would want to activate the soft fork because it basically doesn't cost them anything and there's a potential for bitcoin network to be worth more because more transaction fees being paid due to new types of transactions being possible so this is a truly bizarre chapter in in uh bitcoin history and apparently the in 45 days early august the the signaling becomes mandatory based on you know their misunderstanding of what happened with the SegWit i think so anyway i don't know if anyone wants to comment on this at all but i've added it to the list because for some reason people can't stop talking about it's it's kind of baffling why is anyone talking about 110 when you could talk about because with vip 300 you really can add new features collect more revenue you could get all the stuff that you want you could put all the ordinals and stuff but anyway we got a hunter beast hand so hello welcome welcome to speaking about people yeah so uh i built a bit of an interest in what technically i can speak to some of it and why but i don't know and we'll see sorry is it just me or he's very muffled like is there anything you was kind of hard to hear a little bit like give me one moment yep no problem one moment given technical difficulties okay uh is that better yeah it's much better yeah sorry about that all right so uh basically like i've done it's a bit of an interest in 110 for kind of the same reason i'm interested in uh eCash too is uh uh or at least your CUSF effort um i was really intrigued and interested by all of that uh because uh i i i'm interested in softworking bitcoin myself i want to make sure that bitcoin is quantum resistant and that we have a good solution to uh essentially the quantum FUD that keeps going around and uh uh you know like whoever wants to soft fork bitcoin i'm basically want to collaborate and find uh you know common ground so that um maybe that sort of uh i for not only do i get some uh let's say insights into what's necessary to actually fork bitcoin what works and what doesn't and i just need to see it uh firsthand from the trenches and so uh like really like all the different pieces in the bitcoin ecosystem we're in a very different regime than uh when SegWit and even taproot were activated um because like there's so many more more stakeholders on the network uh and so there's a lot there's a lot to be said about all of this but uh yeah i i just want to say that like um i'm happy to you know sort of uh provide the steelman argument in favor of 110 and also 300 um yes i agree okay so i mean my point of view is that the soft fork is this amazing the fact that the soft fork is even possible is kind of incredible and it and we came up with it back in 2012 when i was i was actually involved with you know i was a bitcoin uh you know fan at the time and i remember when it was sort of and i remember not understanding it at all but basically that software kind of is like we can't get everyone to upgrade so can we just build the upgrade in a way that both you know the old users and the new users can both be on the network it's just the fact that this is even possible it's like amazing you know because how does it normally work normally you sign in to something and they say you know update required you know what if you want to play what if you want to play some video games with your friends you go on the steam and you click up you can't because the update is mandatory and uh but this we've had something where the updates are never mandatory and the fact that that even works is mind-blowing and it also proves that the new version basically is guilt-free you know it proves that the new version has no flaws because think about it people always revert back and so i think any to me this is like we're playing one of those games speaking of games you know you guys ever play those games like among us or mafia or uh you know these are like the social deduction games where like someone is actually a bad guy in your team and you don't know who they know who they are but you don't know who they are and to me i just think anyone who's against the soft fork must be like some kind of crazy person like an or like an evildoer of some kind so that's like as far as i take this view i just think like these people are really weird and it's very suspicious that they're against basically a free tool a free tool that cannot harm us and it has like extremely like epic powers uh and so this includes michael saylor who's like a kind of against all these yeah i don't think he even understands what they are so enough to literally be against them but he thinks he's against them and he sort of tweets against them i suppose so so yeah the soft fork is great and then with CUSF which is you know an invention of mine it's a great called the Core Untouched Soft Fork and you go to bib300qcif.com it's just a site where i parked the document some other stuff there's also a ctv CUSF by the way and all this is is it says you just put you basically leave bitcoin core untouched and you use that for everything you want to do but you also next to it you run a second piece of software that it will check the blockchain for any violations of the new rule and then it will because maybe i should this is getting a little run on and long-winded so hopefully it's not too bad but the way the software kind of works is it will it will reject a block um sometimes so and the reason that this works is because satoshi put in all these blank opcodes these opnops so this is like a blank cube of marble there there's unlimited marble for us to take you say you use opnop7 it's always allowed opnop7 you take it and with the soft fork you chisel away at it you chisel it away until there's a beautiful angel statue remaining and the stuff that you chisel away this is like what the block will reject with the script interpreter throws error and this is super cool because now you start with the whole anyone can spend then you subtract and now you have a new feature and then it's as long as 51 miners upgrade it's safe it's as safe to use really as the other features more or less maybe not in a completely 100 philosophical airtight way but in a very practical way basically is flips from being not existing at all to being basically working for everyone permanently so this is the magic of the soft fork that you can do this because we have these unlimited opcodes and this is the the genius of it and it's just it's just this towering genius that it's impossible at all so that with all you've just learned in my long rant why is anyone against the soft fork especially the opcode soft forks these would be like ctv any prev out BIP300 with 301 um and i you know presumably bit 360 uh or the maybe op success because with tapper we added this like op success thing that's basically the same as the op-nop it's just like so all of these things that just add a little bit of a feature um it's unfortunate that you know SegWit was really an unusual this is like a digression but SegWit is like an unusual and bizarre it's it's unlike like op check lock time verify or these other things but so the point is the point of it all is this it's like well there's this powerful technique that's like opt in reversible and ignorable who are all who are all the haters of this technique it's these must be like all the all the the evildoers all the bad guys so yeah but we haven't had a new soft fork in a while and we've suffered enormously as a result because now the rarer they get the more it turns into like a a prize if you can pull it off before we did three a year and they weren't controversial at all we did well on average two a year but there were some years in which we did many um and it wasn't controversial at all it was just it just happened to be a feature of how it worked that you couldn't use it until 51 hash rate had activated and just as a courtesy we had this system spip nine where it wouldn't activate until 95 that was just pure courtesy that was just because we don't want some people to like get left behind so we had this whole thing with the signaling and then the two-week period where it's once you have enough in the signaling there's an additional two weeks of waiting all this was designed you know for the safety and convenience of all the participants cooperating together it was not intended to be like this voting thing and it just became a giant mess really because of what happened with the block size war and the block size war destroyed everything basically but and but one of the many things it destroyed was the ability to soft fork more or less and so that that's how we have this backlog of perfectly valid soft forks that are harmless and very useful and uh and that has contributed to the destruction of btc over time and and the need for the new eCash hard fork in in august because this is again it's not just that they're making a mistake it's that all the reasons don't make any sense like you would never show it's like you've shown up to a you've shown up to a land i think i used this metaphor a few recordings ago but it's like you show up to a land where they just like kill all their own children and they say our population is really low we're struggling and it's like well have you tried not killing your own children which is the soft fork is this a good thing but people don't even wrap their head around why it's good or why it's basically guaranteed to be harmless and so that's my long rant about the soft fork uh but yeah of course hunter beast has also written a soft fork we all have to look around and figure out like oh how can we actually get how can we actually get it to work unfortunately now it's become so rare that it looks like we're trying to increase our own developer prestige this is just part of the ongoing cultural derangement of btc um but yeah i thought with qcf the idea was you know now he doesn't even touch bitcoin core so it's actually even more modular than before and ignorable than ever but again people don't go for it um which again prove it proves how doomed btc is and i think in the long run actually um to add to that paul like um i think it was about six or five or six months ago i had i listened to a podcast with samson mao and uh and he basically just said that he is he's on the opinion that uh you know i mean he didn't even talk about you know any soft forks he he just basically talked about anything that's um that would be new to bitcoin anything that would improve bitcoin or any of the bips he basically just said like he's on he's on the verge of the opinion that uh you know maybe once maybe once every year maybe you know once every two years um it is something that would need it um and then in in uh there was a conference in abu dhabi where michael sailor was there and i was there too and i remember someone asked about uh you know bitcoin uh upgrades for um to sailor and he said like no bitcoin doesn't need any upgrades it doesn't need any new improvements and and he's on the opinion that maybe maybe if something is broken or or there's a vulnerability that's the only that's the only reason why he would support anything like that and that just really shows um and proves your point in terms of like you know for all these people bitcoin is just fine as it is and i think they're going to really really see um other protocols taking over they're really going to see um if the quantum threat indeed becomes uh you know uh a threat in in the short term and then they're going to uh you know uh find their find themselves in trouble because eventually like all these companies um not just strategy but all the other uh you know um uh treasury companies and all the other big companies s&p 500 companies that have thousands of btc on their balance sheet is going they're going to come the time is going to come and they actually will care right because it will put their asset in a danger um i completely agree and so we got hunter but before we go to hunter who has his hand up there's a quantum tie-in because there's two cases where once on bitcoin did they interview sailor and he's like well what about what about people who want privacy and then sailor just has to say well yeah maybe you do need a manero so which is a ridiculous answer for him to say after all that about there is no second best and blah blah blah and he's only seems to be half aware of how ridiculous it sounds which everyone can look up you just search for maybe you do need a manero but then the second one is someone says what about quantum and then michael sailor again he gives like this low iq answer of just like well he says something like there will be a well then there will be an upgrade and you know he just says like there will be an upgrade like this comically vague thing so i don't know if hunter beast that's what you wanted to but then we also have a new speaker mr coin something coin bizarre yeah hey paul um i wanted to uh just point out just like how what what's the question i'm sorry well i think we'll do here we go to hunter first i think he had a great test um okay so we'll do hunter first okay so so i was just uh i did first of all i just want to point out that your analogy to a soft fork being like uh um chiseling a beautiful statue out of marble i just thought that was like a beautiful analogy and i always love you know how you talk about bitcoin paul it's just uh really romantic and cool and um dare i say attractive regardless uh i um uh i i did want to ask you one question about um uh let's see uh the like game theory uh first of all i know some people uh discount game theory in bitcoin discussions like incentives and things like that um i i've certainly seen matthew corallo discount that and honestly i i don't necessarily see matt as a particularly intelligent person um i just i just see him sort of crushing his iq or intelligence into a small corner and of his mind but i'd be curious of like your thoughts on game theory on incentives and in particular i think one of the steel man cases for 110 is like like one of the one of the more potent ones is uh that when you whenever you tighten the protocol uh what is allowed in the protocol uh through a soft fork whenever that happens there is an incentive to essentially attack the other the the other fork regardless of whether it's uh you know it's hash rate or whatever because uh the the protocol is looser and less defensible essentially well it does become there's a sense in which you could say uh and then we'll go to coin bazaar but there's a sense in which you could say like okay the block size increasing versus decreasing that was a clear case of like tightening or loosening with with these op codes it's kind of like there was no check lock time verified before which was up not too so that was a blank piece of marble but it was it was a cube of marble that no one used and then it switched from that to being a shaped a crafted shape that people actually did use and so it's kind of like you know sure i guess the rules technically tightened on op-nop too but no one was using op-nop too and there's an infinite number of op-nops so it's kind of like it just sort of misses the point i think i do think game theory is very important because bitcoin is not something like cryptographic that has like 256 bits of security in the way that the keys are bitcoin is a claim about what people will do including the other nodes the other miners and stuff like that um so i think it is of very high relevance but let's go to coin bazaar thanks for waiting yeah i'm audible right so uh not that easy to hear you but i can hear most of what you're saying it's fine let me read okay fine as far as you know the the software is concerned we have already seen with bch right so there was a time when it happened and and and that too with when the hash rate was not that you know vibrant and it was it was just exploding at that point of time when when bcs did their fork but then what exactly is the result as of today after six months probably not more than a year as much as i can recall you know it did not elevated so realistically why really we need to have a fork is one thing and what will happen to bitcoin core bitcoin core is running absolutely fine you know we we still have even after 16 years we still have been managed to have uh after the wallets which are in terms of uh the the that has been provided you know the transaction is absolute fine whether whether it's you know back or or the native or the legacy so so there is no confusion about the wallet but as far as the folks are concerned yes there is the concern of of why exactly it is being needed what exactly is going to provide the value secondly as far as you know the sale as sailor is said or or someone has actually mentioned sailor you know we need to understand that okay fine sailor was was one of the investors okay fine he invested in all those things but as far as the quantum is concerned of what he has he has actually said about quantum i don't know about that though i have to go go through that but you know as far as the quantum is concerned probably we have much more time to go ahead and realize that how quantum actually being you know uh being being you know the impactful thing that that's going to go ahead and impact the wallets and all those things because it's a whole ecosystem of things that are being and so much so are there that you know nowadays through social media you know there is much hoax rather than the realistic thing so probably it's we we are too early to to think of okay fine you know uh you know that is going to be the challenge for you know quantum is going to be a big challenge though though it's it's already there but i think that we have been jumping you know too fast for the right way uh we have to just wait and see that how it's going to be there but let's see yeah share your thoughts thank you okay thanks i think the first question was something like um what is the value of forks and there will be maybe confusion and so why do that is that that i understand that correctly i'm not sure that i did hopefully i did absolutely because you know poking is not something that is first time you know i don't know about how many people actually know about but this is not the first time that we are hearing for we already seen that poking is something that you do it for a purpose at that point of time and when when bch was with when bch was with forked they forked bitcoin that was a purpose that okay fine we need to have something and people were trying something that is that can go ahead and replicate the the consensus of bitcoin conditionally that it can elevate to something else that okay fine if if bitcoin is something that can go up or would not be reachable to people let's go ahead and have something next to bitcoin just like gold we have silver bronze so at that point of time developers were trying but there was a purpose at that point of time but after 16 years probably when the when the mining is so constrained that okay fine people have already seen that what exactly and how exactly you know ethereum has been dumped or anything else scribe has already been obsoleted scribe mining is not there sha is still running just because of the simple reason that people actually believe bitcoin so you need to understand that bitcoin is not for the people uh you know just to go ahead and enter into it to have some sort of currency but they they actually believe they did that it is something that is you know there and there is no one you know satoshi is still not findable and it there is some you know sense to the code that it has not been you know it can't be replicated it can't be go ahead and manipulated and all those things that is what exactly the the consensus that what bitcoin strives up till even after 16 years so it's not something that that the folk is something that is unheard of or that can't be achievable but what is the sense path of now why do we need that that's my question yeah well that's a very good question of course and um if you go to eCash.com there is like a why do this like section like a piece of writing where i try to explain that um which is but the short you know the you know to just explain it now is that there's really no reason why okay bitcoin has done very well bitcoin was created and now it's gone up it went up from 10 cents to a hundred thousand dollars so that's going up 99 million percent which is fantastic and we're not no one's complaining about that bitcoin has done very well but really there's no reason why it can't do with the current software that exists today and without foisting more hardware requirements on people and without asking people to do even without asking people to do a hard fork without asking people to do more it's with what we have today with very little we could very easily have planet scale to planetary scale like eight billion users enormous hundreds of billions of dollars in annual transaction fees paid to minors unlimited expressibility for new you know new development like new developers who want to do different things quantum proof etc we could have Zcash level privacy so we can have all that stuff today because there's been an enormous amount of r&d in the since 2017 you're talking about bitcoin cash which was of course it was trying something new and that was what it was trying was a one-time hard fork to eight megabytes and then basically it was trying like a different community but but yeah of course the hard forking once to eight megabytes that was never going to fix the the governance problem or the scaling problem because you'd have to hard fork again and that was it's kind of a big deal like that means that the the actual why not wait for the you know the final fix or whatever so um so this has a very good the purpose and the aim of this fork is uh i think very solid because it's a difference between btc which is in this weird cultural death spiral for no reason it could easily pull out at any time but we have miners who are very apathetic and very ignorant they don't even know anything about the soft fork we also have bitcoin core the developers are afraid of taking any responsibility or showing any leadership we have people like michael saylor who are there like on stage the michael saylor is like the spokesperson of bitcoin now and he is some new guy who joined in 2020 and his entry price is 75 000 and he's lost a ton of money on bitcoin and he's just used micro strategy to cut himself a 400 million dollar check which is like the whole reason he did all this and yet he is like the spokesperson like trying to you know chart the course for the future in bitcoin so every at every turn you have users we're fighting with 110 we're fighting the users away we have people who want to use the chain who are having fun and then luke is fighting these people away so that we're in a very dire situation and it's all completely unnecessary so why not just do the right thing with eCash we can be an example of what btc should do and we can be also an alternative and insurance policy if they if btc is just going to determine to commit suicide basically so now we have okay coin bazaar has their hand up again so yes you know uh i think you know that's very unjustifiable to say or to blame michael saylor or anyone for that matter just because of a simple reason when bitcoin is concerned and someone is actually endorsing bitcoin i'm not saying not for the personal gain or for anything else that matters but realistic thing what happens is no one's going to pay for bitcoin bitcoin strives for the community i mean it is something that one believes as i said earlier that when you have or you when you know about bitcoin when you enter bitcoin when you buy you say you do anything with bitcoin it's your core belief no one no no influencer is telling you you do that but no no influencer is getting paid i mean we need to understand that bitcoin started as you just mentioned from from 10 cents to to hundreds and thousands of dollars and probably i've seen that just it's just 16 years is not more than it's not long line of history or long line of things that that has been associated it's just 16 years wherein hardly people before you know 65 000 mark people hardly or or anyone hardly actually have any insight about what what actually bitcoin does for them so realistically if we see as i said that bitcoin that saylor's you know entry point is 75 so i am seeing up till 65 000 people didn't actually know that what exactly is bitcoin people did not know because at that point of time you know things were being pushed as side by side as i said bcs or lpc or anything else for that matters at that point of time and and now after 65 you know nfts and meme coins and old coins they they all work for the ecosystem not for the bitcoin but they they actually being getting onto a bandwagon of bitcoin so as i have i have a simple thing to and i have a simple chronology to think about that if bitcoin bitcoin is the driving force of in and any any old coin market or coin market it is as simple as i bitcoin goes up everything goes up bitcoin goes down everything goes down bitcoin goes 50 percent low anything else can go 80 percent 90 percent low and that that that have been there since the inception of any old coin you pick up 10 000 of old coins have been developed every now and then just push to a to a to a to a level you know for for 10 days 15 days 20 days and then push gone so we need to understand that okay fine if we gonna go ahead and fork bitcoin we need to have certain responsibility of the community that bch has not been able to drive after a point of time you know it touched 1600 and after that it never went back it's still struggling flat mining is already gone so with with the forking how are we going to sustain the forking is something that is that is needed to be considered sir thank you okay thanks again i do have it in writing on the site so i have a more detailed explanation about the differences between this project and bitcoin cash in 2017 there is a long list of differences but now we got we have robin linus on as a speaker and we have a hunter beast with a hand up also so i don't know maybe we've got a hunter first i just wanted to to thank you for your time i gotta hop to another space uh soon uh but uh uh i i just want to say that i want to talk more and support your efforts however i can and uh i really just like all that you've written and and contributed so far on the concepts of soft forks and all the different things uh there and um i i'm rooting for your success because you just uh you speak to bitcoin in a very beautiful beautiful way and uh also uh uh robin uh thank you uh for for all the uh um thoughts that you've contributed as well in much respect to you and uh vlad of course much love so uh um take care now guys and uh um yeah thank you thanks very much thanks for stopping by bye hunter okay and we have robin up here if you want to say anything robin feel free uh i gotta find my list anyway to see what was on it while you're looking at your list i'd just like to say i think um one of the pros actually of having strategies price be down is you know people can actually now start talking about it for a long time sailor and strategy and his products were like the unspoken thing like heaven forbid you say anything about them but now like there's opportunity to speak about that and i think i think that's good i i don't like the when it's all like basically like puritan levels where you oh you can't speak about that don't talk about that it's like why not i think we should be free to criticize talk about anything like that especially something like strategy where they have such large holdings of it and you know have clear things like you know they're not showing proof of reserves they're clearly doing things and speaking about like i've been in a couple of conversations lately about strategy where people they're they're they're like it's falling and they're defending it and some people are not wrong are not understanding why and i i just ask them very carefully i'm like if you believe in bitcoin and the the the thesis of the value of 21 million how do you value a company that's only process in the world is issuing fiat paper off of its bitcoin holdings what is the value of strategy within the context of 21 million i never get clear answers for it because i i i think that they deep down know what the answer to that is and they're afraid to say it yes it's very similar to bitcoin core where it was like okay the thing you can't criticize that's the broken thing yeah okay something on my list was this idea of will there be a easy way to get people to like people who want to develop a sidechain um i always say the same thing with this but i guess you know multiple people many people have complained have made this comment or this complaint that there needs to be some kind of like documentation or like a sdk or something um i always think the best way is to just look at one of the existing chains existing L2 chains of which there are now like nine and just you know you can just look for yourself like that's what a one looks like that that's actually real and that it actually works but since so many people have asked i'll try to put together some kind of development kit or some kind of documentation that explains it all i think bib 300 the text of bib 300 itself and bib 301 it's not that long so if you really were determined to read there is stuff that you can read but um that was a comment from uh and then i had another comment about well let's just see if we have any new kind we have a coinbase coinbazaars yes again hello yeah i just want to make a small comment you know as far as you know sailor has been you know talked of nowadays i'm not saying for for the long time but yes if you see you know bitcoin conferences that that you know happened and all those things sailor has already been admired that okay fine you know so it's just a point in time that sailor has been you know said that and which is not the right thing according to me because he himself is a bitcoiner he always endorsed it he said that okay fine you know buy bitcoin something of that sort so what is the what is the sense if he is as we see you know if he's selling something he bought it to sell it what is the the concern about having sailor to make or you know push him into a podium okay fine that it's just because of you know he he is just one piece of the whole bitcoin community he's not a minor he's not he's not being building he's not doing he is just an investor and and that's what exactly bitcoin strive for some people believed in investing some people believed in buying some people believed in trading some people believed in and you know mining some people believed in okay fine let me go ahead and have it to order it so there is a there is a purpose and as i've been saying that okay fine there's a whole ecosystem of the things that is working so the believer needs not to be put into any sort of you know counter-attack to define okay fine did this happen because of you know he's just one piece in the world so you you can't just say that i can find the directions are not into bitcoin chinese indian any country you say so he is one of them but yes he holds he hold things he endorsed it he has been into conferences and people like you me and everyone probably was being very very happy you know when it was 65 000 it went to 17 000 and then it went back to 125 and sailor was was consistent saying okay fine you know by this that blah blah blah so many interviews he was going you know into conferences endorsing everything giving interviews sitting out there telling people what he was getting telling people no he wasn't he was not something that constrained himself that okay fine i have my i have my secret recipe i'm gonna buy but i'm not gonna tell the world no he always said go ahead and buy do not sell all those things what whatever is there in his capacity so he never endorsed something that okay fine you know you don't do that what i am doing we have seen his tweets okay finally i've been telling everyone so so it's just very normal thing that he was doing he he was being a poor believer so let's not put into i don't think that he should be put into the the the the into any any sort of you know counter-attack are you are you separating sailor like a lot of times when we say sailor we're actually talking about micro strategy or strategy are you saying no no i am saying about only sailor as a person i'm not saying about micro say what it does okay the entity it has nothing to do with entity i have no concern make sure make sure you clarify that very much so because what he does as an individual is you know i don't care i i care about is as an individual who himself is a bitcoiner who entered or or who have been endorsing bitcoin apart from the things what it does you know for strategy or anything else but that matters the problem is is when he's endorsing it like that he's also simultaneously endorsing his company which people then put put dollars into you know okay fine that that probably is every person and every individual's provocative to go ahead and see the nitty-gritty of of if they believe the person or if they believe that okay fine that this person holds the company but i'm specifically saying about the the relation between sailor and the bitcoin i'm not saying anything about micro strategy i i do not have anything to do with microsoft probably half of the world has nothing to do with micro strategy but what i'm saying is his stance about bitcoin and how he endorses bitcoin as in not being the the core you know influencer of bitcoin but yes being someone who has actually said that okay fine you just buy it try to buy it do not sell it so it's very basic terminologies that he has used he has not he has not differentiated as in as in a person to person or a company to company but he actually has done what a regular bitcoiner believer does no not not necessarily not necessarily because like in instances where he's talking about like oh bitcoin is it's digital credit right that's that's actually fundamentally against how bitcoin itself works right there is no credit involved in bitcoin so so so i i would push back on that he's not not everything he said has been good for bitcoin i think i think a lot of people in the space would agree with that especially paul like i mean he's he said some things that are they're flat out inaccurate with with how with how the chain actually works with how the time chain operates what the time chain represents so you know i mean people like to put these ceos and these people on pedestals and a lot of times they often are missing lots of parts not that i'm some genius not that i know everything about the chain and stuff like that but but but people love to put these these celebrities because that's really what they are right ceos these people are celebrities and then they worship them and then they take what they say as gospel even if they're probably wrong or they're saying something that's incorrect or just not even if it's wrong or incorrect but it's just it's just warped in this way that that changes people's perceptions of of what the project and its goals and its ideals are and then you wind up with things like stretch where there's this magical yield that comes out of nowhere because he holds bitcoin so so yeah i i criticize i criticize sailor i don't think he's doing a lot of good for bitcoin bitcoiners and the chain i i criticize i like look at the people that have probably put hundreds of thousands of dollars i guarantee into into mstr into stretch and they're dying now and they're hoping on some sort of you know a a narrative that he's putting out right and they're listening to other influencers meanwhile they're they're they're they're dying okay and again some of that comes down to these other ideas because other narratives are put on top of that where people are just trying to get rich quick and they're just yoloing all their cash into these things and it's like jesus christ people like i don't know what to say so like you know i we really got to stop putting these people on pedestals he's a ceo he cares about one thing and one thing only his business and the shareholder price of that business that's all he cares about and maybe his golden parachute in 10 years like let's be serious now i just think it's a so i think we should just that we can make sure that everyone gets a so we can just make sure that everyone gets a um chance to ask their question we have a bunch of people who haven't spoken yet at all so maybe we could go to you know adam mcbride or shomari or robin for a little while hey yes sir how's it going man uh interesting you know when i heard you say well you were thinking about you weren't even going to do like an stk or a kind of um anything like that how do you then plan i mean you just is your strategy just i mean i to give you credit i think you've done an amazing job of marketing it uh really um creating creating controversy on the timeline is is fantastic and you've done a great job but are you really is that your actual strategy just just to create just to kind of build it and then people you know build it and they will come i mean is that the strategy behind the same question paul i had the same question okay great i'll answer two with one stone i think people have totally misunderstood or maybe i don't know if that's the right word like we already have thunder we already have zSide there's a guy out there this guy j he's a j on twitter i don't know if he's here he may be here he may not be but he already made a Blockstream elements chain so he already followed my advice um i think it's quite easy to make a new L2 chain like i think it's it's actually very easy so he some other guy was already able to make one without the stk we already have thunder and zSide we already have uh you know stuff that we're working on we always have outside contributors uh making things so actually the development side the development dimension is is pretty healthy we you know by by this time next week there'll be the publicly available mobile app we have bit window bit window so i think the architecture is really really strong to the point where even if there was zero development um after you know from like september first on it would be the you know like the best tech in the industry and but that's a small small percentage of what will be built because not only is already going to be the best but it we've we've just set it up in a way where there's no there's no barriers so it's like if you want to change L1 you can release your own Core Untouched Soft Fork that it doesn't you don't have to do a pull request to eCash L1 you know and if you want to change something in the front end you want to change the wallet or something you could just release your own use fork bit window on github release your own bit window and if you want to change the mobile app just fork the mobile app or just whatever you know so you don't need sdk you have the the real thing that actually works it's like and you can just especially with ai and stuff but you can just ring it all part but we don't need any development but on top of that it'd be very very very very easy for people to develop on top of how are they supposed to build on top of thunder when it launches that that's my question yeah it's true it's a very good question because there is an endless you know no matter how high you build the the tower the tech stack there's always going to be people who want to build on top of that who are going to say oh you know what warcraft 3 is great but what this really needs is a warcraft 3 custom map editor it's like trading engine right now you can't build on thunder i i've i've built and and and what it what i had to do to make anything useful on top of the existing Drivechains is is unreasonable for anyone because i had to basically build my own api you know reverse engineering the nodes and and i understand the nodes are the source of truth but you're basically expecting people to now develop their own infrastructure on top of what you've already built and and i think that's unreasonable i think LayerTwo Labs should provide infrastructure for at least the initial Drivechains people are going to create their own Drivechains of course and then they'll be responsible for their own infrastructure but you have you know the initial model and you haven't provided any uh like api access you know to those models and and everything now is just based on the node software which is completely useless for building you can't get any reasonable uh data useful data just from the node the node has to be indexed if you don't you know provide all these you know infrastructure you know resources my in my opinion no one's going to be able to actually build people will want to build but i've already taken that step and i see what they're going to be facing and it's i don't think it's reasonable so i would really hope you would reconsider and actually you know provide maybe like an application on top of thunder that then you'll see like what it would take to actually have others do the same thing um okay well that's certainly uh you know okay so the tower when you build the tech stack the tower can go infinitely high so we'll always be infinitely far away from the ceiling so to speak so like when i say the tech stack i'm talking like okay at the lowest levels you have like wires plugged into things you know then you eventually have like an application and then you have like so you have like twitter and then you say oh i want a twitter api but then eventually you say oh i want to have what's that thing where you can stream everything glad at the same time and it's like okay it's now using the twitter api and um it's called re-stream and um so that's uh so yeah and then eventually people will be like oh i want to have my ai agent plug into restream so what i'm saying is when we build the tower when you climb to the top it will always look like there's plenty to do because and that feeling will never go away ever if for a thousand years um so you always even no matter how tall the tower gets you'll always be able to say well why can't i have such and such thing so the i think the standard comparison should be instead how easy is it to scale to do transactions on thunder versus for example lightning in btc which is a complete total blowout you haven't given a roadmap in terms of how to actually start building i i appreciate you know the tower analogy because i i support that but people have to know how to climb the tower is there a ladder is there a staircase like that you haven't actually shown anyone how and and that's the operative word the how and i'm saying like that that's well right now you would run because of course thunder doesn't have that many transactions on it right now because it's brand new so for now you would run the thunder node and then when that no longer becomes practical it has to happen kind of organically to some extent because when eventually you have so many people using thunder and then you say oh it's actually kind of annoying to run the node instead of using the rpc from the node which does the exact same thing as what you know the api would do but eventually you just say well you know what i want to run this that's false that that is false the api does much more than the rpc like infinitely more and that's the whole point that that's that is my point you don't have an api so that the rpc is is kind of useless to builders it really is it's just it's just it's a firehose of information that has it's just raw data and the data has to be organized and if you don't organize the data no one's going to be able to actually use it and i'll just give you one example um because this is i think i already posted this is uh you know for example thunder does not have a block explorer you you have the mempool explorer for uh for signet the L1 and that's perfect it works perfectly but there's no block explorer for any of the L2s and and that that is my point like i did i built a block explorer and i saw how difficult it was to do that and i'm saying that is unreasonable you have to make it more approachable by offering you know additional resources on top like and i think that's a responsibility for the initial Drivechains not not the ones you know that people are adding you know in addition but for the initial ones you know like thunder and and BitNames um you know LayerTwo Labs should be providing an api that is reasonable for people to build on top of otherwise i just don't see what's going to happen on on launch day there'll be nothing to do and yeah i think i'm kind of careful of that there'll be nothing i would just layer on top of that paul just just as like someone who's obviously not a dev and just much much more smooth brain but to that point and because i have seen it with other chains when there's a failure to have kind of basic tooling like that like the block explorer for example and a failure to have that early on uh and you may be hoping that oh well somebody would just build it that sometimes a simple thing like that which you maybe put some time and energy into just build at the beginning can kind of allow this bootstrapping to take place in a much quicker and easier manner and actually be welcoming to builders if you know what i'm saying so just to give a kind of outside perspective on how to maybe think about it yeah i think that's a good totally good um totally valid point of view i think certainly a block explorer is not that hard to build it's just my opinion come on man you've never built a block explorer bro well it depends on how you want it to look like really really beautiful i built a block explorer you just indexed everything in a database in your table that's somebody who hasn't built a block explorer dude that is you that's your that's a dev how hard can it be it's just if i can just maybe uh show really quick i'm out of shiller but i did build a block explorer for BitNames and thunder i it's just for the two okay and it's you did it in a few days you're and i know you're saying but because it doesn't make my point in a way no because it's the simplest thing you could do and it was very difficult and i'm saying that if doing a block explorer takes that much effort how are people going to be able to do anything more complicated and and that's the point standard of comparison is is not again because you know nirvana is not for this world so if you were hoping for perfection then but i think that's not the point the point is um i mean i disagree that that's the point which is to say you know again when you climb to the top of the tower when you want to build the next part you always think why didn't anyone do this part yet but then um so i think there probably will be a block explorer you know before for the L2 chains before august so that's the primary thing you wanted to ask about but i think the question how hard is it to build compared to what i think it's completely missing the point to say how you know how you have let's imagine that you wanted to build a block explorer for something on btc that's scaled to eight billion people well there is no it's impossible there'll be an infinite cost so i think it misses the point but uh i think but this is totally fair and this is what i said is that when you building the tech stack everyone takes for granted this stuff that's already there and then they say well this this new stuff is not there yet and um that's but that feeling is never going to go away even in after 100 years people are going to say why it is you know just you can look at it now where people this is what we a lot of the technical people talk about in btc they say oh well yeah all this stuff works hd wallets work etc works but we don't have ctv or we don't have whatever so everyone's trying to push the to the next rung because i i'm really not talking about like the tower at this point you're talking about the top of the tower and i'm talking about like the base like the ground level like we're still like we're still on the ground right now well i'm saying you would run the full node for sunder which you can do by just clicking some buttons and that would get you up to the top of the tower basically and then you say well why do i have to do this why can't i just do an api to some someone else who has which you could build yourself i'll give you like a really quick second example besides the block explorer is the i because i just um have been working with your new mobile app which is fantastic um but it's clearly obvious the first thing i noticed that it only supports the signet and the question would be well is it going to support the Drivechains any of them and that's of course but you're it's only 10 days of course yes of course but do you know how because to support the other Drivechains you will need apis and i built those two all right yeah i agree there's nothing none none of this is true fpv is slightly different very similar but that's a it's a client server idea so you could call it and you could call it an api if you wanted to um i think but that would be fine i'm not complaining about that when you have a light wallet yeah it is very much just similar to a client server even though it's not it's not like that is for like the money part which as you said is very mature and i agree with that spv works very well but what about you need to know the state i agree with what you're saying you're saying basically like okay the mobile app the way mobile app would normally work okay go ahead fine no no i'm just gonna say like i'm because the s you said fpv and i agree and i want to just note that i do agree with yeah we do agree we agree mostly and i completely agree the mobile app will come with it there will be like requests for different rpcs and the whole thing will will evolve but what i will say is that um like specifically let's say BitNames just taking one Drivechain that that has really nice features i think it's the most feature rich so i've kind of been focusing on that one and i'm enjoying it i'm enjoying just exploring BitNames but that goes way beyond spv spv doesn't do shit for BitNames and i'm saying i think you're dismissing you you're kind of like you're making it seem like it's it's it's obvious that this will happen and i'm telling you i've already started i've got the wheels moving and i'm telling you this is not trivial any of this and i'm looking at the time i wouldn't be that trivial it doesn't have to be ready by august also remember like you know 60 days exactly i'm sorry i didn't hear that part no i just said you have less than 60 days to pull it off it's not that you have months to do this so it's also the L2s will launch in that's a very good point that you brought that up um so like i'm thinking like thunder and zSide will be like fully like production ready before the fork date in august now the others will be kind of like you know they will be in various stages intermediate stages so some of them are really hard that prediction markets one will take a little bit of thought and a lot of trial and error you know it'll take a lot of uh it'll take a lot of effort that's talk about not being trivial so i think BitNames are kind of like a little in the in the middle of the pack and so they may not it's theoretically possible that we just launch it and it's just not finished until october or november for me and that's fine that's fine doesn't matter fine but i feel like BitNames is like the most important one because like i think that's like the identity and that could you know i like BitNames a lot i think it's i think it'll take a while for people to come around i tried it we've been talking about it a lot in these spaces so i think you get it i think a lot of people need more creativity and the imagination to really like wrap their heads around why for example Namecoin was the first altcoin it was co-invented by satoshi and so they were also thinking along those lines like this is like a cool idea which it absolutely is and um so i think that's a really cool one but of course scaling and privacy because we just take advantage of other people's you know tech and it's like the the rust crate system and stuff those are i think are a little easier to make reliable and they already are reliable like today so those i see those as kind of like the bread and butter basically of like okay BIP300 now you don't have a block size limit you don't have a scaling you don't have a liquid lightning liquidity blah blah blah all those problems are gone and then you also have access to super strong privacy that already puts us like you know you know much better than btc much better than most other projects how do you actually um use these things because like for me i would i would you know expect those features to be available in in your new mobile app and and i just i don't to have that ready by the launch date and i know you're saying you know you'll have something ready but i i would encourage you know more i i would say attention to be made in making useful things at the time of the launch specifically i think BitNames is really important where people can register new identities get their you know get their name you know name they want register it at the at the launch date and and i don't think they're going to do that with with the bit window because that's a desktop application so i really like i'm taking this opportunity to just really encourage you to see that BitNames gets integrated at in some level some basic level into the uh the eCash mobile wallet but to do that i agree i agree and if you do build those apis that i would oh there will eventually be there will eventually be apis i i just want to say i i hope i think this is like private apis like i if you do make apis for the app for the eCash app which you will have to do if you want to you know integrate BitName i just i would encourage you to make those apis public for all builders okay we will that's the last thing i want to promise you that we will and what i would like to say is i i thrive on high expectations so so i like this is great um raise those expectations to the sky but it is only 10 days into the mobile app so it's this is day 10 there was no remember we had red wallet before red wallet you know it was okay you could send to receive coins on L1 it kind of sucked it was like an electron a really really good job with the mobile wallet i um i submitted um i know yesterday was the last day for the um the bounty i i just i was gonna do it this weekend but um i ran out of time but i i spent like all day yesterday and i found a few enhancements i thought were we i i thought valuable at this point because um like it was very hard for me to get the mobile app installed um i had to build it myself and compile it myself so i created a i created we have to make it i created a workflow for github and i sent you a pr um with all my bug stuff um i sent you a pr really hoping you may you know um integrate it because that will allow people to just um you know install the apk you know from from your repo as opposed to having a bill and build it themselves and the things you can't build it um you can only build it with a mac because you guys use i think what you use with the architecture you use it you need a mac to compile it and i didn't even my mac was too old it was like your your mac is too old you need to upgrade i was like i can't upgrade so um but i created a github workflow and i sent you a pr um if you you know if you join the pr um it'll build your um apk for you and it'll be available in the repo in the eCash repo that anyone can just download you know right to their phone and i think that's important because people really need to be like engaging with this stuff early so that you can get feedback and then we can you know start you know getting more traction i would say but um but i really you know i just wanted to um encourage that you know there's more like real usage not just talking about the chains but actually like using them and and the eCash mobile app is is just it's beautiful already um i've been playing with it and um and i just i would love to see that you know integrated better with the Drivechains not just the signet i know me too no i completely agree you're 100 right look at that scholar and then again i really have to go at four this time so we only have 28 minutes uh so if anyone wants to say something just pop up quick uh i just want to say that um i have to run uh i have some good news actually uh my father is getting out of the hospital i don't know if i told anybody this the other day um but he was getting his pacemaker in he had all sorts of heart issues and blood pressure issues uh he's been in the hospital for about a week now um i just got the phone call he's getting discharged so uh today's a good day that's good yeah it's great it's good news so he's gonna be home this weekend he missed father's day he was real upset about that but he'll be home um today and he'll be home this weekend so treat him up for something nice um but i think this was a great space uh thank you philip and co-host thank you for having me up here and i hope to be available for the next one thanks for joining okay we got decentralized no e now we're gonna go wild i can tell i'm degentralena this week i had a sex change so if you guys feel like sucking on my toes my of link is in the bio um no so question sorry we talked about this last week uh based on sailor's most recent performance uh do you feel any different yet about giving him five percent of the supply to dump on your head because he's going to be down bad paul and you know that five percent is going straight into the fucking order books my guy so is there a reason we're just gonna you know sleepwalk our way giving away 20 percent of the supply to retards like sailor he's gonna sell and it's gonna crater the price and that means that sailor is gonna get only a tiny tiny amount for all his eCash and then and then he'll be barred from the eCash realm option two is you take it and you you use it in the treasury format and don't let it become worthless sold into the market like there's not really an upside here and given this guy five percent of the supply he's he's not okay but uh you know do you know we need it in order to actually do something about it which i would almost certainly not do but even if we wanted to we need a list of all the UTXOs that we know are his just get the without that you can't even do anything you just get most of it it's fine you just get three well do you ever do you have that list where's that list i'm sure there's an address list for some well can someone find it that would help move the conversation if we find it it doesn't bring this up yes it's a community thing or is this a point i would can't really bring it up until we find the list which i i'm kind of doubt but you know i have i have a little bird that told me this and that because you're not the first person to make this joke a little person oh yeah why don't you try looking over here why aren't you looking over there so there were some clues but yeah it would need to be like very very very very very demonstrable and the reason we would take sailors coins is not just because it's because he's you know kind of like um it would be the reasoning would be something along the lines of he is actually not a bitcoiner he is not he doesn't want bitcoin to succeed and he doesn't want um or he doesn't know any better so he's become a danger to himself and others that would be like a lot i just feel like uh like i don't know like he has nothing to do with the network like you would get more usage even if the tokens all good fair and square though he bought the same coins we got to respect everyone's property rights you know it's not really fair and square could you and i issue a completely worthless junk bond no so is it really fair we can't but we don't know about that one bro how much uh we can release a junk bond for a hundred dollars and will we sell it to anyone for a hundred dollars in cash is the question whereas he could sell his for like eighty dollars in cash or whatever whatever they did i just want to if it doesn't happen i just want to say can we get a list of the names me dave toshi a couple other intelligent individuals high iq hi big cock motherfuckers so that when it all goes bad and michael saylor's address is found to have sold all in one clip that we could come back and be like okay can we have that's fair now i think yeah accountability is good i'm in favor of accountability that's fair i'll i'll leave it at that but i still think every week we need to ask you and every week master is going to be down his strategies and i'm going to say hey paul think about the thing you know that's all i gotta say i'll be nice to everyone today okay fair enough uh yeah no i don't think it's great that um i would prefer it if michael saylor wasn't in involved with bitcoin at all i think the price would be much higher a lot of people say oh where would we be without we would be in a much better position did you see his tweet the other day he was talking the opposite he was saying without without companies like strategy bitcoin would never have pumped some shit like that yeah i completely disagree 100 and uh you know don't let the door hit you on the way like that's the thing is he thinks um he's so essential you know he's entitled to that opinion i have basically the opposite opinion i think he doesn't know like what makes bitcoin valuable and uh even his claims about like his claims he he's made claims that are think about it it's not even it's not even consistent with what he normally says where he'll say like quote this is the thing he said many times he said like quote like okay bitcoin is already 200 trillion dollar asset as long as we don't break it close quote so according to him it's already worth all this amount regardless of what anyone does including him so that directly god coded bitcoin in his mind like it's so perfect that like it's pristine and there there will never be a better software like he he clearly thinks oh micro strategy buying bitcoin that's good for bitcoin he clearly thinks that his advocacy in trying to stop it from being quote broken close quote he clearly thinks that's good for so he has a philosophy about what makes bitcoin good and he just i mean he may be too stupid to realize that's like what he's saying but i yeah i don't know option two paul is this everyone in the top 50 addresses on the white list are on the claim list you time lock their shit automatically with the bitcoin script what do you think about that six well i think it's bad for the project to we want to respect people's we want to say that we will respect people's property rights with this project there's only one acceptance to toshi paul yeah what do you if i stop there well because um he the his coins are kind of basically abandoned um and he might come back from the gas station paul don't don't talk like that so uh i think also he he kind of left them as like so she sacrificed a lot to make the project a success and that's also like we're trying to make the project a success so i i think it's not quite the it's not quite the same thing as saying i don't like that person or that person you know whatever it's like if all things are considered equal like we shouldn't be taking sailor we should be taking sailors coins and not satoshi's coins you know what i'm saying well i mean yeah in a world where you're a good guy here or not in a in a world where it was like the fungibility was so bad and you know but you see here's the thing that doesn't actually make any sense because it's partly because think about it if you could just snap your fingers then maybe that'd be one thing but um what if we were to announce oh we're taking sailors coins instead of satoshi's coins like we all know satoshi's coins are not going to move between now and august but say those coins will be moving around and then he could be saying well okay and here's what if micro strategy says okay we issue a bunch of shares on a continuous basis you know what i mean like the owner of the actual coins is kind of like a much more fluid and like confusing abstract set of people if that makes any sense like you know what i mean like it's like where there's just one owner there's like okay what about the people who own stretch or the bonds or the convertible debt or whatever so it's like it's just kind of too confusing okay so you just got to talk to arkham they know all of the addresses uh he concurrently come on think about it just think about it you're gonna save five percent of the supply paul send me the send me the list and i will have an arkham account which i don't use because i'm not a fed but ah does that help it's in this thread above though i pinned it up top okay i will look into it thanks thanks boss i'll shut up now you can go back to the boring technical people or whatever harry harry come ask him stupid technical questions harry i didn't fall asleep we got 20 more minutes i actually do have another technical question okay you know it's not appropriate i i'm not on telegram as you know um but that is actually the issue is because i i want to really be like more i guess engaged with like your uh repo and issues and stuff like that um and and i i'm trying to like you know kind of get more sense of like your trajectory um your goals and like you know when you want things done and and how they're getting done and whatnot but um i know you obviously have this bug bounty thing going on um what's like because like for me i i i saw a few messages um in your in your issues already that other people same as me don't have telegram like what's the alternative for people that want to participate um because i submitted them not really sure if you would even accept them because i can't do the whole telegram dance but um can we like just do like a btc kind of registration or like is there any alternative to telegram at this point for people that wanted to help find bugs uh telegram it's fine um it's not don't worry about that if you just send them to me on twitter i will probably get or on they're already in your issues like they're formal issues in the specific repos because the thing is um yeah that would be helpful thanks it's a matrix server it's like uh open source yeah matrix yeah matrix is good it's um eventually there'll be some kind of like forum.eCash.com which will also like matrix is nice because you can integrate with like discord and telegram so like it matrix is an aggregator of the other socials so like if you're in matrix you're kind of in all of them so matrix is kind of cool that way i've never set it up but i've seen you know you know communities where they have you can have a bridge in a single channel so it's like one giant irc looking chat but it's like it's feeding in the discord and the telegram messages exactly tagging the users that were saying it exactly so you don't get like the telegram features or the discord features it's just like irc like like you said it's just very raw but at least you get the conversation self-hosted server like paul you could just have a self-hosted instance of like you guys manage the chat background you don't have to rely on discord to shut you down or your shit get deleted or whatever yeah that sounds like a very good idea and then the last thing uh paul i get i just i i know you said you're gonna exit you know exactly for um this i swear this is the last thing but i did one of my bugs is regarding new Drivechain proposals and i did see another uh issue just a couple days ahead of mine for the same thing so i i realized like it's definitely an issue where um it's not it's not hitting the the signet the L1 is not showing any Drivechain like proposal activity because i i've i've submitted mine three times and it hasn't shown up yeah but it has to show up you have to mine one block and with the signet you can't mine any blocks so i think that's probably what's going it might be a bug but i don't think the server is very unusual so normally you need at least one person to mine the m1 transactions for anything to show up at all that's by design that's perfectly correct but if the the server doesn't do it then it that you'll never get an m1 you'll never get any m2s so then it just won't show up which is exactly what you should very least and you you should probably change the messaging um which i i put all this in in the in the issue um because the messaging does not the message the messaging is leading you to believe that you're done when you submitted it and and i screenshotted the message so you can you know see it but um but the messaging then would have to change to let you know that well there's still more to do yeah okay that's good that's very helpful we will change that and it is better though if people are in the uh i know that you don't like a telegram but we'll get that we'll get matrix and discord we'll get all that stuff uh we'll turn all this stuff on at some point hopefully soon thanks so much appreciate it thank you thank you okay um i have a bunch of stuff to do today so if people want to hop up and ask something that would be great but otherwise we could end it slightly earlier i'll just fill in the dead air for a second while people request uh i was just wondering if you had any uh current up-to-date thoughts uh based on today's market activity about postponing the launch perhaps like let's say we're not looking really good are you gonna are you just gonna full gung-ho this motherfucker into a dump like let's say bitcoin does start dumping like 30k are you still launching eCash in august are you gonna wait uh i don't think the price would be a reason i think it would be if we are like if the if a lot of people like if if i got like some kind of message that said like oh yeah like coinbase wants to list the coin but but they need like another month or something so what i would do is if there's if there's some kind of problem if there's a good reason we would delay at one time probably by like two months so that'd be like the only delay so it's either like late august or like late october late october sounds pretty bullish paul i don't know but i gotta consult with aaron my uh you know the great um astrological chartist like we have a triple bottom on bitcoin uh we are going to go try to liquidate your best friend sailor i think maybe right like why not i think i mean i hope that sailor maybe he will like stop talking so loudly after all this which would be a big that'd be very bullish for bitcoin i don't know um but uh but yeah i think so that's the situation is like because i don't want it to be like oh you know let's delay 10 minutes 10 minutes and eventually people get fatigued and annoyed by that so if there's going to be a delay there's only going to be one delay to end them all and right now i i think august is still late august is still fine um but you never know we have to do some we have to do some better tests so as i think i mentioned we will be doing like a couple like fake um fake hard forks where it's basically like as if the hard fork happened like yesterday and then we'll be able to see like okay how prepared is everyone really including ourselves so um we'll see how far along we are if we do a delay there will just be one big delay so that's my promise to everyone if there's a delay there'll be one big delay and then there won't be any other delays so that's the situation i don't think it would be because of the price if anything if the price is super super low i would be thinking oh i can now explain to everyone hey btc is crashing and burning so this is like the life the lifeboat this is the life raft that's the judo we need paul that is the judo okay the internet judo that you are going to need for the next five years of your life to make us all millionaires god damn it no but in all fairness i think there's opportunity when bitcoin is sort of facing this identity crisis you should not not launch when bitcoin is thriving especially if it's a UTXO fork i think if sailor is going to get liquidated there's going to be a lot of disillusionment and questioning that will be happening in the community and i think eCash has the right solution for it so unless there's an awakening in bitcoin and people start activating opcodes and letting builders do their thing i think eCash sort of has the solution for whatever it is that will be coming in the next few months in bitcoin and the timing is perfect like you couldn't ask for anything better if you launched in the middle of a bull market when everything is going up it would be harder to justify the existence of a new coin but i guess it's the perfect storm for this hey i've got a question someone said something earlier about time locking like btc i just want to know what would be the point of time locking it if you're not time locking it and getting anything in return for it you know say like a decentralized like a forced like a forced time lock on the launch system like a vested lock you know like it'd be like you'd be like okay we know you're gonna dump on us because you guys are all broke cucks you know but wait three months and let us get some market activity before you completely destroy the chart on day one you know like because they're all gonna come out of nowhere like you could you could even be like if balance is fucking you know 1,500 bitcoin or whatever then lock it don't lock anybody else's stuff right you could do that because he has control of the genesis block and he could you know he's already kind of doing some funky magic so he could do some more funky magic i know he's not gonna do that and it was always it was just a joke but the idea being that like the people that are getting we're giving 70 of the supply to already hate you guys you understand that like trust me i i was there for every bitcoin fork ever and every one of you fuckers is gonna dump on me again and i'm okay with that but i don't know if you guys get the game yet you know you guys think oh oh we're gonna get this bitcoin airdrop and it's gonna be sick and it's gonna go up no dumb asses 50 of the supply with two percent of the liquidity is not good math for pumpage right so all i'm trying to get at is people like sailor people like you know any of these large bitcoin companies that are anti alt coins automatically right out the gates like you know the nvks of the world fuck them take their bitcoin that's my point or make them wait make them wait you know make don't let them just dump day one like we i know this is a bitcoin fork and we have to do things in the bitcoin world but i think what thing that and this is somebody that has forked bitcoin long before today and i'm still managing blockchains and everything but the point is we make this mistake that it is still 2017 it is not still 2007 it is now 2026 my guys okay gotta update a little bit sometimes right that's all i'm saying now don't you think that's a little fucked up and somewhat you know because you got to think about it bitcoin is basically a mass cheap asset now you know this is not bitcoin this is eCash eCash well whose bitcoin is going to get converted to this eCash is the question everyone's everyone that wants that wants to claim it basically participate and users don't even know that their bitcoin is about to be converted to eCash don't you think that's a little fucked up it gets duplicated duplicated yeah they shouldn't um magic yeah in my opinion yeah yeah it's pretty much magic and someone says something about satoshi not moving his coins i i would i would possibly reconsider that you know just as a fact you guys think this motherfucker's not watching everything and i don't think satoshi even ever said hey i'll never sell my bitcoin i'll never move it i'll never do anything with it motherfucking this is this is crypto you know this is decentralized crypto we're speaking on and i i do feel you know this mystery magic with this bullshit it's fucking wild bro um i don't know what dream everyone's living in but this is not the way i just have to say that and for everyone out there what makes you say that just imagine like going back to the let's say the exchanges are participating in this and everyone who's been stacking sats for the past couple years all their bitcoins just mystery converted magically converted to this no dude you get it's free money that is it's like based on your bitcoin balance they're printing a whole new chain it has nothing to do with bitcoin other than it's using the data of bitcoin holders to print the new chain basically that's that's what you're getting you're not duplicating taking anything from anybody everyone's getting free money but that's the problem what do you do when you get free money you click sell okay maybe i was misinformed all right yeah so so michael saylor has five percent of all bitcoin basically right because the federal government is allowing him to print illegal junk bonds to buy up the bitcoin and now we're going to go give him five percent of all the eCash for no reason like i just don't see the value in it you know yeah okay now i'll do it he disagrees with me i think it's fine i think we just want all bitcoiners we want anyone who bought bitcoin to get some free cash because i agree but here's the thing is i we're saying he's on the good team until he sells then he's determined he's chosen to leave he's left paradise you know the gates of hell open from the inside and then i don't remember who said that but i think a german philosopher did you guys know that digivice is 40 times faster than bitcoin and actually is working on something with timelock called the digidollar world's first truly decentralized stablecoin i think everyone should check that out doesn't sound accurate but maybe okay yeah sure yeah so i'm pretty sure new shares okay the first actual okay anyways go ahead sorry we got to get to uh because it's only six minutes we're gonna get to regular marek all right two sorry sorry i said i think it would be good marketing to confiscate sailors coins i hope we have another one of these spaces it's a really entertaining ideas i'll pause and go in a second so two rapid fire questions sorry this has been answered before um should builders interpret um i understand from my i guess reading a little bit of reading that the block size is going to be reduced should builders consider that like hostility of the chain towards like ordinals and runes and second question would you ever consider reactivating OP_CAT and op mo uh yeah absolutely um i would say that i would not worry about it it doesn't actually it shouldn't affect i don't think it actually affects ordinals or or runes a lot because you just because the ordinals idea is just that each sat is ordered and so the block you know it advances the ordering advances a certain amount in each block but it doesn't actually it doesn't actually make any difference so i don't think that i don't even see why it would be considered hostile well and i would imagine all the activity less room for monkey jpegs right so it's not so that's that's a that's a no we shouldn't yeah but you have you get monkey jpegs on all the other L2 chains in addition to BitAssets which is like a a playground chain for this this type of thing you know so i think it's more pro i think i think by far that you know eCash and BIP300 is more pro ordinal is more pro fun certainly than bitcoin core or bitcoin knots i think we would be the the leader in being welcoming to all people no matter whatever weird stuff they want to do with the blockchain that's kind of what we're all about is doing weird stuff with the blockchain so and then a second part of the question i already forgot what it was what was it it was uh ever consider reactivating OP_CAT and opmul oh yeah no OP_CAT's great uh we have one of the new chains that a friend made so made by a fan is his elements chain this is basically like bitcoin core it's a lot like bitcoin core this is elements is a project from Blockstream from like a million years ago like literally 2015 and it's basically bitcoin core plus um a bunch of opcodes like OP_CAT plus a bunch of other stuff simplicity or whatever that you can like simulate opcodes and he also added ctv j he added a ctv in addition to OP_CAT and also the Blockstream element stuff so we already have that as an L2 now should we add OP_CAT on L1 well i think yes i think L1 should have in particular L1 should have vaults but we're not going to get that anytime soon because i'm determined that L1 should mostly copy bitcoin core so we don't have too many points of comparison between the two and um as a result uh L1 will probably not have OP_CAT unless btc adds OP_CAT in which case we'll just continue to copy bitcoin core and that is very important because so well i mean so basically we'll have OP_CAT as a playground in the L2 world now is that as good as having it on L1 uh no but you're pretty close and the point is you'll at least be able to do something with something that has real money somewhere and you know maybe maybe give it a try and that's uh again it's like i wish that we could make stuff even better but it's not my fault this bitcoin core is crazy and the miners are crazy everyone's everyone else is crazy so but we can at least do it on L2 yes okay i guess i yeah my question was about L1 and uh yeah okay so i guess the answer is maybe no leaning well we could do it as a as there's a you could have a second qcf second Core Untouched Soft Fork uh next to it and i so i i think that would be okay because then we still wouldn't be touching the L1 you know what i mean this is part of the power of the soft fork is that you can't stop people from doing it and sometimes you can't even detect that they're doing it that's how harmless they are so i think it could be possible that eCash would activate BIP300 via qcf and then also activate OP_CAT on L1 and in particular i would like there to be vaults on L1 so whatever it takes to have good user-friendly vaults that are very easy to use so that the people break into your house and they they're holding a gun to your head and they say give us all your bitcoin you say oh i can only give half a percent at a time because of this story paul that happened to me uh they don't give a fuck okay they're gonna sit there they're gonna wave the gun in your face for hours on end until your wife comes home you're gonna panic you're thinking you're gonna think how how the fuck why the fuck did i lock my shit up when i could just give them the money right now and they could leave yeah you're gonna you're trust me that's what's gonna go through your head um it's a good point but um but actually for it to be a deterrent so that you know the first guy maybe it doesn't go great but uh the you know because the thing is the thieves they don't want to they want the coins they don't want to hurt you so maybe there'll be a rough they want the dollars paul it'd be a rough transition period but then you deter future all future theft and what about this we use michael saylor especially if you advertise it you could say you could tweet and you could say oh i locked up all my coins in this vault then the thieves might pick a different house they're not gonna care though paul here's what we do here's what we do i think robin was right we we marketing campaign the michael saylor coins we we vault all of them as a use like a proof of of use of you know like look michael saylor can only get 0.5 of the supply per year because we time locked it with the vaults isn't this great tech and then the price of eCash soars as a result uh while bitcoin dumps because he's getting liquidated what do you think about that is that a good like vault strategy would you would you uh allow us to steal his coins to make your vaults happen paul think about it think about it well i think we have to you know the proposal is missing a lot of details but if we plugged all those details in we could consider it robin robin we need those details think about the details robin and send him to paul okay he respects you he'll do it trust me spook free eCash think about it think about the marketing line spook free that's it's hard to say in this space man it's really hard to say okay well as i said i have to go but this has been great one more i got one more question all right just one more okay i know you got to be but i love you know i think i think this is a great space i think we had a wonderful time today i think if we could just dive into real quick like what are you going to do if there's a hostile takeover attempt of eCash and how would you defend against something like that let's say from a calvin air type figure did i beat this can you still hear me can you be more specific like he comes up and he just says he's got all the hash he's got all the the illegal dark funds uh he he you know he's got some friends on his on his side again uh he's got the fake toshi on his side and he's gonna say hey you stole my coins i'm suing you paul you stole my fucking coins okay and then he's gonna say now we're buying up hash to uh hard fork eCash into you know eCash gold what are you gonna do well there's a legally distinct eCash foundation that's separate from me so uh and then of course we didn't steal anything we just gave we created something new and gave it away for free so i kind of like my chances so far and of course you know you never know uh when let's say craig's like hey i'm fake toshi you know are you are you going to court well if i get i personally get summoned to court i'll have to go what if he says print print me what in america yeah yeah i don't think i don't think craig will be i don't know it's a funny it's a funny idea there could be lots of people who say they're satoshi and so that that that's an interesting legal question okay i'll let you go now that's my last stupid question for today okay thanks everyone you guys are super great until next week next time it'll be tuesday tuesday at two eastern see everyone there goodbye till next time