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I've given this talk many times, but it's still underappreciated for what it is.

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So, this is a very big idea, actually, in Bitcoin, that we want to collect every
transaction fee on Earth,

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and we want Bitcoin to be able to do everything that any other blockchain can do.

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And this is my idea of BIP300.

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My background is that I have a blog where I've written like a thousand pages about
Bitcoin.

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And before that, I was a statistician at Yale University Economics Department.

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In December 2014, I added back a link to my blog, and that was sort of my big break,
so to speak.

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And this is basically the idea of what I'm trying to talk about here today,

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is that what you should do is try out the software that we have already built,

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because the software already exists.

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You go to LayerTwoLabs.com slash download.

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And then if you're interested in the software, if you like it,

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you can consume some more content at drivechain.info, which is the project site.

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There's tons of information there.

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And then if you agree, you want 51% of hash rate to run the activated client.

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So that's the idea.

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And then I have some screenshots here just to give you an idea that this is real
software that already exists.

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This is not like some stupid PowerPoint slide where people put BitVM on it or
whatever,

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and then they explain that something will be built later.

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This is real, and you can download it now with those test fake coins, testnet
network.

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So this is like, if you go to LayerTwoLabs.com slash download, you see something like
this.

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This is what the software looks like.

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You run Bitcoin at the top, and then you run these other L2s beneath.

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And this is what drivechain.info looks like, and there's an enormous amount of
content here on the sidebar.

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If you visit it on mobile, it's at the bottom.

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So basically, let's get this.

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It's very easy to run this idea, but even though it's very, very easy to run, it has
extremely profound implications,

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which I'm going to explain now.

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So I have some endorsements, though, just to give a small idea that this isn't
completely made-up nonsense,

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which is that I have Adam Back, who said this on stage in front of everyone in
Baltic Honey Badger in 2022.

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He said Drivechains are pretty cool and arguably could have been more important or
useful than Taproot,

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which was the most recent Bitcoin software upgrade.

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Yeah, John, the creator of Nostra, said we need Drivechain or the work of thousands
in the last 13 years of being vain.

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Drivechain is our only hope, so he's an even bigger shill than I am in a way.

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Rene Picard, author of Mastering Lightning, the book.

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He's also got this endorsement.

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And then Robin Linus, inventor of BitVM, he's also a huge supporter.

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According to Rob, he's going to be here later at 3, and he's a genius, so I'm going
to be on a panel with him.

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You should check that out. It's going to be very interesting, I'm sure.

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So, OK, so what is this idea, though?

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The idea is that everything will be on top of Bitcoin, and so right now we have all
these things that have their own coin.

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For example, maybe Zcash or Ethereum or whatever, but even things like Visa or
WeChat Pay.

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So there's all these computer networks out there that are doing these transactions,
and we want them all to be on top of Bitcoin.

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And so we won't need the altcoins or the fiat currencies.

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That's the idea.

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Of course, it's easier said than done, but another way of putting it is that the
Bitcoin network today is like a phone, an old rotary phone.

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And it will still be like a phone, but it will do all this other stuff.

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These things that the Bitcoin network doesn't today do or can't or is not willing to
do.

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Or there's some kind of controversy over what to do, such as the block size dispute.

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The blocks cannot be large and small at the same time.

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The blocks cannot have Zcash-level privacy and be auditable at the same time.

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So there's disagreements.

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So basically, we're going to use the altcoin tech or just the ability to release any
new piece of software.

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But there's not going to be an altcoin.

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There's only going to be BTC.

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So the altcoin will start.

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Instead of having an altcoin like Ethereum, you'll have this thing that you could
call BitEthereum or you could call it whatever you like.

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But it will be Ethereum, but it will have no coin.

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It will start with zero coins.

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There will be no coins on it until you send coins to that from Bitcoin L1.

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And so basically, the goal is you have some person who says,

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Oh, Bitcoin seems great, but can it do a long list of things?

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Smart contracts, DeFi, whatever.

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And instead of explaining to them maybe why we don't want to do that or whatever,

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we just say yes because it can do everything.

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And a fringe idea, you just say, well, yeah, you go and do that in your own L2, far
away from the base layer.

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And so now anyone can do whatever they want on their own L2.

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And in that way, we have a good fences make good neighbors type situation.

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So yeah, it's kind of like lightning where you move the coins to the app.

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So there's no coins when it first starts.

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But when they're on there, they can do whatever they want and then they come back.

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So you get unlimited planetary scale from this and you immediately get Zcash level
privacy.

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You just copy the Zcash altcoin software.

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And again, all this software already exists.

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You can download it for yourself at LayerTwoLabs.com slash downloads.

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You can try it for yourself.

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The L1 is just going to ignore these L2s.

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The only thing that comes back is a periodic message about what is being withdrawn.

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So whatever happens on these L2s, L1 will ignore it.

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And that is the key because that is why the people on the L2 are allowed to do
whatever they want.

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So it's because that they cannot screw up L1 from L2 that they are allowed to do
whatever,

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Ethereum smart contracts or very large block sizes or any other thing, ring
signatures, whatever Monero would be.

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I have a tiny description of how this works, but I'm not sure if it will make any
sense.

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But this is the L1. Base layer is beneath and it has these block headers and these
different blocks.

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And then I have this thing. This would be BitMonero.

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So this is a version of Monero that has no XMR. There's no altcoin.

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And it has its own blocks and this is going from December to April.

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And so basically, as I was trying to say, on L1 with BIP300, you do not actually see
what's happening in here.

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There's this big sheet covering all of this.

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All of this activity, including the deposits and withdrawals and everything in
between, is compressed into this one hash.

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And that hash is the only thing inserted on L1.

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So what your Layer 1 node, full node, Bitcoin core node sees is just this.

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They see this little green thing go in and then they see it get paid out.

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And they ignore everything that happened in between.

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Which is how the whole system overall can do whatever it likes because no one is
responsible for it.

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This is an example of the software doing this.

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You can see how this happened if you download the software.

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So yeah, more relevant to miners, because I know this is put on by Marathon.

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They invited me to come over and bring this up.

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Miners have the ability to collect, I mean the goal would be to collect every single
transaction fee on earth.

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Which is that every single transaction in the world, be it a Bitcoin transaction,
they all go...

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Even though they happen on L2, they're all automatically piped down to L1 through
something called merged mining.

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That was invented by Satoshi in 2010.

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And it's been in use continuously ever since.

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In fact, we have merged mined Namecoin ever since 2010.

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Although the amount of money is very small.

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But my expectation is that in the future, well over 99% of all miner revenues will
come from merged mining these chains.

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So yeah, this is the idea.

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BIP300 is what allows these transactions on different networks that may have
different features or different block sizes.

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This is what allows them to be Bitcoin transactions.

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And then BIP301 is this form of merged mining that pools all of the transaction fees
down to the L1 miners.

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So anyone can read about this.

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If you look in the BIPs repository, you can read the actual BIPs.

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I have kind of maybe a visual explanation of like...

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Right now we have...

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This is like cryptofees.info, the website.

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We have all these different chains.

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But after BIP300, it's all just Bitcoin. Everything is Bitcoin.

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Even though there's different networks and there's different pieces of software.

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Different versions of the Bitcoin network.

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And then all the fees are pooled to the L1 miners.

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So this is...

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BIP300 is just...

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You drop...

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You forget about all of Ethereum.

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And now you have BitEthereum.

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And then in BIP301, it just automatically takes all the L2 fees and pools them into
a single L1 accounting transaction.

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L1 accounting transaction that gives all that money to the L1 Bitcoin miners.

129
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And we don't just have to copy the existing altcoins.

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We can copy anything.

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Even Venmo or Visa or whatever.

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And I did some back of the envelope math to try to figure out exactly how many
transactions there are per year.

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But it's very difficult.

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But I think it's at least in the trillions.

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I think it could be many more.

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And that would add up to...

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10 cents of each of that would be hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

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And actually the number grows maybe 7 or 8 percent.

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It means it doubles every 9 or 10 years.

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So that would be an enormous amount of money for the miners.

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One of the altcoins I think we should copy that we have already copied.

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And you can try out this software yourself if you ever download it.

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Is that we have a fork of the latest version of Zcash.

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But with no altcoin.

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But it has the reusable Z address.

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So you have Zk-SNARK privacy for Bitcoin.

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This is vastly superior to CoinJoin in every way.

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It's hard to even begin to list the reasons.

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But some are that the more people using this, the more people you are in the
anonymity set.

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And it's just more user friendly since you only have one address that you can reuse.

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So this is a good idea to copy like this.

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Monero has taken over the darknet markets.

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Some of them.

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So we could recapture that use case with this idea.

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Namecoin is a totally underappreciated idea.

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Although many people have started to work on it again.

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Where the Ethereum people have ENS or whatever it's called.

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And the Stacks people, they have their new BTC thing.

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But of course to use the Stacks thing you need the STX token.

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And with this, this is just Bitcoin.

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100 percent Bitcoin only.

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So I think that this idea is a very good idea.

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And I have written a long post.

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Here it is.

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I changed some bitnames.

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Logins.

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DNX.

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Kagan.

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ICANN.

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If you search for this post, you can read through it.

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And why I think that this is a very, very good idea.

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It's really a shame that it was invented in 2010 by Satoshi himself.

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Co-invented kind of.

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I actually think I have it.

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Yeah.

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Looks like I have it somewhere.

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There's some nice stuff around.

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Okay.

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I have a slide where Satoshi brings up.

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He's co-inventing it.

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Everyone should read it.

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It's called BitDNS and Generalizing Bitcoin.

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Where Satoshi invents this idea.

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But no one has done anything with it.

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Yeah.

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Most of the assets, with the exception of the Ordinal's activity, which is recent.

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More of the assets has been on other chains or even stuff like Tron or whatever.

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But we should just recapture all that for Bitcoin only.

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We want Bitcoin to be the king.

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And we want everyone who wants to use.

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Anyone who has any use case at all.

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We want them to be a Bitcoiner.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'm very interested in this prediction markets topic.

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It's been getting a lot more attention with Polymarket.

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I actually made a Bitcoin prediction market.

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L2 sidechain back in the year 2013, 2014, 2015.

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Which is on my site at bitcoinhivemind.com.

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So check that out if you are interested.

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But I think this is very important.

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So these are all things that we could do with this BIP300 idea.

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And I'm trying to speed through this.

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Oh, yeah.

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These are just screenshots.

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Well, I would like to have some questions if there's any.

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Yeah.

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Hey.

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So would you like 30 minutes or whatever I think they said here?

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Yeah.

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You can just go and whatever.

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Yeah.

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I have tons of slides.

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So I got more.

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Even more.

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We could even keep loading more and more slides if we want to do that.

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And so on and on.

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This part is not really that important though.

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Because the whole point is you can just do anything you want.

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So the fact that other people are doing cool things is just kind of, it's not
actually that important.

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Yeah.

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But there is an interesting thing that the only sustainable way to ossify L1 is
actually if people can get what they want on some L2.

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So even the people who want ossification I think should support this idea.

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Because it's just a very bad idea to try to just tell people that the software is
not going to change even if it doesn't meet their needs.

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Because that will encourage them to leave and use other software.

226
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So then how ossified will Bitcoin be if it is abandoned by most people?

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I do see it as a kind of race to some extent.

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Try to get to 8 billion people, 8 billion users or die.

229
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:53,000
Because if someone else gets to 8 billion users then I don't think there's much room
for a second place coin.

230
00:13:54,000 --> 00:14:00,000
Yeah, I have read some slides about like how is this possible that this can work.

231
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000
But I don't know if people are interested.

232
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,000
What I think it is best, I will go back.

233
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:12,000
I think it is best if people download the software themselves and they can try it
out and see that it's real.

234
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000
Go to the site.

235
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:20,000
But yeah, I did actually try to sprint through it in 15 minutes because I was
wondering if there would be any questions from anyone.

236
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000
So if anyone has a question, feel free to ask.

237
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,000
I'll start with you.

238
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,000
Yes.

239
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,000
What is the resistance to Bitcoin?

240
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:39,000
Where do you find valid about their arguments and where do you find they don't get
it?

241
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:45,000
I think the one weird thing that I did not expect is that...

242
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,000
So a lot of the other ideas I think are actually quite bad.

243
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,000
The Lightning Network in particular as we have all been suffering under this idea
for so long.

244
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,000
And everyone is so committed to it that they cannot give up on it.

245
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:02,000
So I think this has forced everyone to reject any kind of rival idea until very
recently.

246
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:07,000
Only recently has it become socially acceptable to like doubt that the Lightning
Network will work.

247
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,000
There are arguments against this but they don't really make any sense.

248
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,000
So actually one of them was the slide that I was going to say at the end.

249
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,000
So some people think what's going on here is this is kind of cheating in a way.

250
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,000
Where I am pushing this.

251
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,000
What does it cost to run the full node of Bitcoin Core?

252
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000
And then there's all these other L2s which can be an unlimited cost.

253
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,000
But the thing is those are all optional.

254
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,000
So you only run those if you're interested in doing that.

255
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,000
So in a block size war, you know, people like Roger Ver or the other large blockers.

256
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,000
They wanted to run software that processed larger blocks but other people did not.

257
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,000
And in this idea, not everyone has to do the same thing.

258
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,000
So people can just run whatever they want.

259
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:59,000
And so in a way I'm kind of pushing the problem only on the people who want to run
it.

260
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000
And this is very counterintuitive because people just think either nothing is
happening at all.

261
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,000
Or that people are being forced to do something that they don't want to do.

262
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,000
But neither of those things are true.

263
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,000
This is just people being confused.

264
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:16,000
And I think if they run the software, they will figure out what is actually
happening.

265
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000
A weird thing is that some people do critique.

266
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
This critique makes no sense and it is almost a waste of time to repeat it.

267
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:29,000
But there is a critique from very smart people who they think that for some reason

268
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,000
the fact that the miners can make a lot of money doing this is bad.

269
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,000
And they think it will pressure the miners into like running this software.

270
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,000
That really doesn't make any sense because the software is free, open source
software.

271
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,000
And if the miners don't want to run it, they can just stop running it at any time.

272
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,000
And the miners already live in this extremely competitive world

273
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:57,000
where they must do a whole list of things just to be economically viable.

274
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,000
So there is really nothing different about this than anything like using the waste
heat to...

275
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,000
If you are a miner and you use waste heat to dry fruit or something or heat a
swimming pool,

276
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,000
this is a very similar thing where you are just running Bitcoin Core

277
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,000
and then you also run more software that prints money for you, collects transaction
fees.

278
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,000
So I think people just don't understand this idea.

279
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,000
One other thing that happened was that Blockstream went public with the sidechain
word,

280
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,000
but they used it to describe a multisig federation controlled by them

281
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,000
where they collect all the transaction fees for themselves.

282
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:36,000
And as a result, I think everyone is very confused about what the word sidechain
originally meant

283
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,000
and so it created a lot of confusion overall, unfortunately.

284
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,000
Any more questions?

285
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Yeah, if anyone has a question, please ask a question.

286
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,000
I rushed through the thing so that there would be some time, I think.

287
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000
No, you don't have a question?

288
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,000
Yeah, this is a bizarre thing.

289
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,000
But yeah, again, I have a list of endorsements at LayerTwoLabs.com also.

290
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000
And I had those three at the beginning to try to get people like,

291
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,000
this is actually not a completely made up thing.

292
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,000
This is very real.

293
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000
Question for you.

294
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,000
Yes.

295
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,000
So I'm still struggling to understand this a little bit,

296
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:14,000
but just hypothetically, let's say one of these sidechains becomes massively
successful

297
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:18,000
and it's super huge and everybody is using it in different ways.

298
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,000
Maybe you could describe how you would implement it against a Bitcoin sidechain.

299
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,000
No, I don't think so at all.

300
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,000
The question was, what if a sidechain becomes very, very popular?

301
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,000
Much more so than the L1.

302
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,000
First of all, I think the analogous case would be,

303
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,000
what if some kind of altcoin becomes much more popular than BTC?

304
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,000
I think that would be very threatening to Bitcoin's store of value

305
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000
because everyone would be around using this other thing

306
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,000
and that may also have fixed supply or something that's close enough

307
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,000
where a lot of people don't care.

308
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000
So maybe that new thing would have,

309
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:57,000
we would actually be getting nervous, I think, in that case

310
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,000
because I do think there's only room for one project.

311
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000
But the way this project is designed,

312
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,000
there is nothing that the L2 can do that will change what is happening on L1.

313
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
So maybe things may happen with how things are perceived by humans

314
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000
and certainly what would happen would be

315
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,000
the miners' attention and loyalty,

316
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,000
it would be divided somewhat proportionally.

317
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,000
They would say, well, this is really our bread and butter over here.

318
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,000
However, even though in a relative sense that would change,

319
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,000
in an absolute sense it would not change.

320
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,000
Whatever the Bitcoin L1 is producing in transaction fees,

321
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:40,000
that is how much everyone cares about, the miners care about L1.

322
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,000
So they care some absolute amount.

323
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000
And the fact that on the side they get some other huge thing,

324
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,000
that doesn't quite make as much of a difference

325
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,000
because in fact it's actually a good thing

326
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,000
since all the L2 transactions are Bitcoin transactions.

327
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000
The miners are less likely to be distracted by some other thing

328
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000
like if there's government licensing

329
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,000
or some other person is trying to bribe them

330
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
or give them some kind of tax break or something.

331
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000
They are more likely to just ignore that.

332
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,000
Because they'll just say, we're making so much money,

333
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,000
enormous amounts of money.

334
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,000
I think that's the best way to keep the miners loyal to the Bitcoin,

335
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,000
the 21 million Bitcoins.

336
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,000
I think it's a very good thing and to be expected.

337
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,000
I do think in the future most of the economic activity

338
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000
will be on these L2 sidechains.

339
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,000
So it's just not possible to get the L1.

340
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000
The L1 blocks are very small.

341
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000
And when the fees are high, people get annoyed

342
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000
and the user experience is terrible.

343
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,000
So people just stop.

344
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000
This happens all the time where the price is going up

345
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
and then people call me.

346
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,000
They say, oh, I know you're into Bitcoin.

347
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000
But then the fees are $20 or $30.

348
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,000
So you try to onboard them to Bitcoin.

349
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000
But it's just so hopelessly awkward

350
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,000
because the fees at that moment in time are so high.

351
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,000
And the fees come back down.

352
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
But that's also when the bubble...

353
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,000
It's something where there's an endless bubble

354
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000
of just onboarding more and more people geometrically.

355
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
And so L1 is just not configured for that.

356
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000
And we don't need L1 to be configured for that

357
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,000
because we can have all the benefits on these L2s

358
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,000
that are optional and we can even sacrifice the L2s.

359
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:28,000
So the L2s will be more of this high turnover, low...

360
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,000
There will probably be fewer coins.

361
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,000
There may only be like 100,000, 150,000 coins on all of them,

362
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000
but the turnover could be 500 times that of L1

363
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,000
or even like 10,000 times.

364
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,000
It could be very different.

365
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,000
So it's like the cash you have in your wallet,

366
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000
it might turn over a lot,

367
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,000
and you have a savings account that you don't touch,

368
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000
something like that.

369
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Yes, so that was a great question.

370
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,000
So if anyone has any other questions, there's a microphone.

371
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Yes, it's okay. Don't be shy.

372
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,000
I have a question about Drivechains, sidechains.

373
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
I'll throw one out there.

374
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000
What are the...

375
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,000
I don't know if you can slightly...

376
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000
What are the challenges, like the lack of liquidity

377
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,000
and having to lock in channels?

378
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,000
Could you do that in a sidechain?

379
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,000
Yes, you can, and it would be better.

380
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,000
I have written two blog posts.

381
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,000
One is called

382
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,000
Lightning Network Fundamental Limitations,

383
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000
and the other one is called The Ellen Black Bell.

384
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,000
The Ellen Black Bell just has a list of quotes from people.

385
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,000
Because I'm a very technical person,

386
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000
and many of my friends are into lightning,

387
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,000
but the people who are technical people who work on lightning,

388
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,000
they have said many things publicly,

389
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
and I've just collected them all in one place.

390
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,000
So there's the details,

391
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,000
and then there's just the overall vibe,

392
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,000
for lack of a better word,

393
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,000
which is like...

394
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,000
People don't act as though they're really, really proud of it,

395
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000
and they want everyone to investigate the details.

396
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,000
They're not bringing everyone in to explain it easier and easier,

397
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
and getting more people to actually use it.

398
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
People just kind of are excited about it,

399
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
and then they collect the salary as an engineer,

400
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,000
and then they just kind of hope people ask a few questions,

401
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000
but not too many.

402
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,000
That is the vibe of the lightning network, unfortunately.

403
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,000
And you can look at some other things,

404
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,000
like numbers on how many coins are in the lightning network,

405
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,000
which is less than 5,000.

406
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
That is hundredths of a percent,

407
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000
so it's just not very much.

408
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000
I just think it's not...

409
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000
It's more and more popular among the open source devs to just say,

410
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000
what's the next thing going to be?

411
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000
People are talking about covenants.

412
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000
People are trying to talk about the next thing,

413
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000
because they just want to quietly kind of forget about it.

414
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000
More to that question,

415
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,000
I think every L2 that does not pass all the fees down to the L1 miners

416
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000
will eventually have a problem if it is successful.

417
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,000
So maybe it will fail, and no one will care.

418
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,000
But if it is successful,

419
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000
then the miners will be looking over,

420
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000
and they'll say, these people are making a hundred billion,

421
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000
a hundred billion dollars a year,

422
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,000
but we're not, because we only get the L1 amount.

423
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,000
And so then the miners will think,

424
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000
oh, maybe we should either vertically integrate,

425
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
and just do, we'll do our own,

426
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,000
like marathon lightning or whatever,

427
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000
marathon LSP or whatever you want to call it,

428
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
or foundry, right?

429
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,000
More likely like foundry LSP.

430
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,000
So let's see, like foundry LSP or the foundry arc supernode.

431
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000
People either do that,

432
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,000
or they will just attack and destroy that L2.

433
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000
They'll say, we don't want that,

434
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000
because we want something that gives us the money.

435
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,000
So I do think anything that doesn't pass those fees down

436
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,000
is probably not viable.

437
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,000
That's enough.

438
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Given that Enduro is a multiplex,

439
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
that is a multiplex.

440
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,000
You know, you might want to think of it

441
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,000
as kind of a halfway point

442
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
to your ultimate vision for Drivechains.

443
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Also, do you like the scene

444
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,000
of the myriad of things

445
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
that we've created

446
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,000
for the Drivechain platform

447
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,000
in the main time.

448
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,000
We've already done one.

449
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Yeah, but you guys won't do it.

450
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,000
The Zcash sidechain is the most cypherpunk.

451
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
It's the most legit.

452
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,000
You guys are not going to touch that one.

453
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
See, that's why.

454
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
But, yeah, well, we are...

455
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000
You do the prediction market one or two also.

456
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,000
I've got lots of stuff that I've written for free,

457
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,000
as you know.

458
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Fully open source.

459
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Hopefully those will come soon to the Enduro platform.

460
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,000
Is that right?

461
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,000
Yeah, of course, yeah.

462
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,000
Okay, great, yes.

463
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,000
Okay, well, thank you very much.

464
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Okay, cool.

465
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000
I'll see you again at 3 o'clock here on the stage.

466
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,000
I'll be back at 3 with Robin Linus,

467
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,000
the genius inventor of BitVM.

468
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,000
Thank you.

469
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000
Robin Linus.