1 00:00:00,315 --> 00:00:02,315 Hello, and welcome to... 2 00:02:30,315 --> 00:02:51,555 Welcome to Drivechain Twitter Spaces. 3 00:02:51,555 --> 00:02:58,115 If you have a question or comment about Drivechain, come on up to the stage. 4 00:02:58,115 --> 00:03:00,835 Don't be shy. 5 00:03:00,835 --> 00:03:05,915 Bring your question or comment. 6 00:03:05,915 --> 00:03:08,234 Welcome Mr. P.B. 7 00:03:08,234 --> 00:03:29,835 If you would like to come on up to the stage, you are welcome to. 8 00:03:29,835 --> 00:03:31,755 This is Drivechain Twitter Spaces. 9 00:03:31,755 --> 00:03:41,395 We discuss Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 300 and 301, a transformative update for Bitcoin 10 00:03:41,395 --> 00:03:53,434 that can introduce peer-to-peer sidechains for scaling privacy, DNS, smart contracts, 11 00:03:53,434 --> 00:04:00,154 and all kinds of other interesting blockchain-based applications, enabling the Bitcoin community 12 00:04:00,154 --> 00:04:08,954 to stop worrying about creativity harming the mainchain, and instead embrace creativity 13 00:04:08,954 --> 00:04:12,835 on the sidechains. 14 00:04:12,835 --> 00:04:18,554 Let a thousand flowers bloom. 15 00:04:18,554 --> 00:04:26,674 If you have a question or comment about Drivechain for Bitcoin, come on up. 16 00:04:26,674 --> 00:04:29,795 Welcome everyone. 17 00:04:29,795 --> 00:04:34,394 Come on up with your question or comment about Drivechain. 18 00:04:34,394 --> 00:04:43,154 We meet every Monday and Thursday to discuss Drivechain. 19 00:04:43,154 --> 00:04:46,394 All are welcome to join the stage and ask a question. 20 00:04:46,394 --> 00:04:50,834 Ask a question or comment. 21 00:04:50,834 --> 00:05:03,714 Don't be shy. 22 00:05:03,714 --> 00:05:14,755 Bitcoin Improvement Proposals 300 and 301 are the subject of our conversation today. 23 00:05:14,755 --> 00:05:18,755 We look forward to the first questioner or commenter. 24 00:07:14,755 --> 00:07:43,755 Welcome to the audience, Mr. HuluVooBlueRSK, co-founder of Bedtime Labs. 25 00:07:43,755 --> 00:08:11,755 Welcome, Mr. HuluVooBlueRSK. 26 00:08:11,755 --> 00:08:22,834 This is Drivechain Twitter Spaces. 27 00:08:22,834 --> 00:08:27,915 We meet every Monday and Thursday for questions and comments on Drivechain. 28 00:08:27,915 --> 00:08:36,914 Come on up to the stage if you would like to ask a question or share a comment about 29 00:08:36,914 --> 00:08:37,914 Drivechain. 30 00:08:37,914 --> 00:08:39,674 Don't be shy. 31 00:08:39,674 --> 00:08:44,114 Raise your hand and come on up to chat. 32 00:08:44,114 --> 00:08:51,114 The whole purpose of these spaces is to have open discussion about how advanced sidechains 33 00:08:51,114 --> 00:08:56,395 can help Bitcoin foster innovation. 34 00:08:56,395 --> 00:08:59,354 We have a request to speak. 35 00:08:59,354 --> 00:09:00,354 Fantastic. 36 00:09:00,354 --> 00:09:02,674 Hello, sir. 37 00:09:02,674 --> 00:09:08,755 Welcome, Mr. BedtimeLabs.RSK. 38 00:09:08,755 --> 00:09:09,755 The mic is yours. 39 00:09:09,755 --> 00:09:10,755 Take it away. 40 00:09:10,755 --> 00:09:11,755 Hey, how's it going, guys? 41 00:09:11,755 --> 00:09:12,755 This is HuluVooBlue with Bedtime Labs. 42 00:09:12,755 --> 00:09:13,755 I'm already building on RSK. 43 00:09:13,755 --> 00:09:14,755 I just came into the spaces to get some updates on Drivechains. 44 00:09:14,755 --> 00:09:15,755 I'm pretty excited about the whole Layer 2 stuff in general and happy to be here. 45 00:09:15,755 --> 00:09:16,755 That is awesome. 46 00:09:16,755 --> 00:09:17,755 We at LayerTwo Labs think RSK is awesome because RSK is the most significant infrastructure 47 00:09:17,795 --> 00:09:23,675 on RSK. just came into the spaces to get some updates on Drivechains. 48 00:09:24,255 --> 00:09:27,615 I'm pretty excited about the whole LayerTwo stuff in general. 49 00:09:28,315 --> 00:09:29,735 Happy to be here. 50 00:09:30,435 --> 00:09:31,315 That is awesome. 51 00:09:31,735 --> 00:09:34,395 We at LayerTwo Labs think RSK is awesome because 52 00:09:35,075 --> 00:09:40,635 is the most significant sidechain on Bitcoin that is 53 00:09:40,635 --> 00:09:41,835 merged mine, 54 00:09:43,455 --> 00:09:44,275 which is really cool. 55 00:09:45,455 --> 00:09:49,595 It's my understanding, having chatted with Gabriel Kerman, the co -founder, 56 00:09:50,855 --> 00:09:51,755 RSK 57 00:09:52,015 --> 00:09:56,575 is generating three Bitcoin per month in transaction fees. 58 00:09:58,235 --> 00:10:00,675 I think that's so great, like for the Bitcoin miners. 59 00:10:01,295 --> 00:10:01,735 That's cool. 60 00:10:03,335 --> 00:10:04,935 I wonder where I can find that data. 61 00:10:05,355 --> 00:10:08,755 I would love to see, like, I 62 00:10:08,755 --> 00:10:09,755 I would like to check that often. 63 00:10:09,755 --> 00:10:10,755 I would like to check that often. 64 00:10:12,235 --> 00:10:14,695 If you have any thoughts, you can let me know. 65 00:10:16,895 --> 00:10:22,255 I know they just redid their website and they just did an overhaul to the RIF 66 00:10:22,255 --> 00:10:25,635 website as well, which is the Rootstock Infrastructure Framework. 67 00:10:25,635 --> 00:10:29,898 they actually have a like zk roll -up 68 00:10:30,078 --> 00:10:35,798 of RSK, so I guess you could say it's Bitcoin Layer3, and they're going to using that 69 00:10:35,798 --> 00:10:41,478 for super fast transactions and pay gas fees with whatever tokens you 70 00:10:41,478 --> 00:10:45,978 have. it'll automatically swap it to Bitcoin, so it can go ahead and pay those gas 71 00:10:45,978 --> 00:10:49,041 fees. I guess if you have Ethereum, you can 72 00:10:49,081 --> 00:10:53,801 come over and kind of pay gas with the Ethereum it'll auto swap it just to help with 73 00:10:53,801 --> 00:10:59,741 onboarding not ease of access to help get those Bitcoin miners more Bitcoin which is 74 00:10:59,741 --> 00:11:05,461 the whole purpose staying with the security budget isn't it interesting how the 75 00:11:05,461 --> 00:11:08,184 security budget is 76 00:11:08,664 --> 00:11:14,364 not in the discourse right now because fees are high, but instead 77 00:11:14,834 --> 00:11:17,924 there is discussion of the need to scale Bitcoin. 78 00:11:19,504 --> 00:11:25,324 just like the security budget assists people in understanding the potential value of 79 00:11:25,324 --> 00:11:27,327 sidechains because 80 00:11:27,527 --> 00:11:30,787 it can be boosted through merged mining. 81 00:11:32,247 --> 00:11:37,147 Scaling Bitcoin assists people in understanding the value of sidechains 82 00:11:37,887 --> 00:11:41,247 because when fees are high on layer one we need to have layers. 83 00:11:44,927 --> 00:11:46,470 it's a kind of a great catch 84 00:11:49,270 --> 00:11:49,990 Totally. 85 00:11:51,530 --> 00:11:52,950 Like a virtuous cycle. 86 00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:58,630 Well, yeah, mean, whether fees are low or high, a compelling case can be made 87 00:11:58,630 --> 00:12:03,730 for Drivechain, because we need scaling layers. 88 00:12:03,730 --> 00:12:05,390 Now one of the 89 00:12:05,613 --> 00:12:10,513 toughest parts about selling sidechains is people say, well, if sidechains were great, 90 00:12:10,893 --> 00:12:15,633 why haven't the federated ones seen a ton of success on Bitcoin? 91 00:12:17,073 --> 00:12:19,313 if we had - Because we don't have drivechains yet. 92 00:12:19,313 --> 00:12:22,493 I know, but they wouldn't be - That's why. 93 00:12:22,493 --> 00:12:24,713 But there are federated solutions that 94 00:12:24,755 --> 00:12:26,015 have done well in Ethereum. 95 00:12:28,315 --> 00:12:32,455 Like not everything in Ethereum is fully peer to peer and yet some of the stuff has 96 00:12:32,455 --> 00:12:33,275 done well. 97 00:12:36,755 --> 00:12:37,875 For example, 98 00:12:39,735 --> 00:12:45,695 wrapped Bitcoin is a totally federated, like 99 00:12:45,695 --> 00:12:50,615 single company federated multi -sig that has $4 billion of Bitcoin 100 00:12:50,615 --> 00:12:56,495 involved. So people are willing to trust things 101 00:12:56,495 --> 00:13:00,735 sometimes. why like rapid going is not peer to 102 00:13:00,755 --> 00:13:04,015 peer. The company BitGo is like issuing it, right? 103 00:13:05,495 --> 00:13:06,195 If I'm not mistaken. 104 00:13:06,855 --> 00:13:11,175 So just one question people have about Drivechain is they say, why isn't Liquid and 105 00:13:11,175 --> 00:13:12,415 RSK, why aren't they bigger? 106 00:13:13,995 --> 00:13:18,055 Like, if sidechains were good, wouldn't, like, first generation sidechains be more 107 00:13:18,055 --> 00:13:18,495 successful? 108 00:13:23,255 --> 00:13:28,455 Yeah, honestly, I was really surprised they don't have more traction than they already 109 00:13:28,455 --> 00:13:29,035 do. 110 00:13:30,315 --> 00:13:35,155 seems like most of the cases, the Sovereign is the most popular thing on RSK. 111 00:13:36,675 --> 00:13:38,295 Fantastic, I use it all the time. 112 00:13:39,915 --> 00:13:42,815 yeah, there's not too many users on these things yet. 113 00:13:43,335 --> 00:13:47,875 I feel like, you know, the maxi fud of, it's a federated thing, the miners can steal 114 00:13:47,875 --> 00:13:50,995 your coins. well, RSK is like merge mining bitcoins. 115 00:13:51,655 --> 00:13:55,095 you think the Bitcoin miners are going to steal your coins, then I mean, okay. 116 00:13:57,255 --> 00:13:59,115 And like, we've been begging for Drivechain, and 117 00:13:59,255 --> 00:14:01,295 the ones who say we shouldn't have it anyway. 118 00:14:01,635 --> 00:14:07,095 And then they get ordinals and yeah, then they get mad. 119 00:14:10,075 --> 00:14:12,395 So... Well said. 120 00:14:14,755 --> 00:14:15,675 Well said. 121 00:14:17,795 --> 00:14:18,675 Yeah, and then the whole 122 00:14:18,675 --> 00:14:21,535 whole ordinals thing, well, I think it's kind of a non -issue. 123 00:14:22,495 --> 00:14:25,695 There's no more security budget FUD pretty much ever. 124 00:14:26,655 --> 00:14:27,695 might go away though. 125 00:14:28,055 --> 00:14:31,795 Like the ordinals, the fees might subside and then there's low fees again. 126 00:14:32,295 --> 00:14:34,155 Oh, I think they will. 127 00:14:34,315 --> 00:14:38,155 But then we can always threaten to, oh, we're going to put a bunch of sub 128 00:14:38,155 --> 00:14:43,555 can always 129 00:14:43,555 --> 00:14:55,975 and 130 00:14:55,975 --> 00:14:56,995 get high fees again. 131 00:14:56,995 --> 00:14:57,635 I think if 132 00:14:57,635 --> 00:15:02,715 the fees come and go this cycle, it'll teach a lot of people that these things can't 133 00:15:02,715 --> 00:15:08,575 relied upon. Like we can't rely on high fees in the future unless they 134 00:15:08,575 --> 00:15:09,575 appear to be sustainable. 135 00:15:10,055 --> 00:15:15,915 If they just come in sporadic spikes, then that's not going to increase the security 136 00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:16,375 budget. 137 00:15:17,114 --> 00:15:18,715 Eric Wall had a good tweet on this. 138 00:15:18,715 --> 00:15:24,635 The security budget is not a function of the past miner revenue. 139 00:15:24,635 --> 00:15:32,474 It's a function of future expected miner revenue. 140 00:15:32,474 --> 00:15:36,835 If the miners think that there will be a lot of fees in the future, then they will consume 141 00:15:36,835 --> 00:15:40,994 more resources to hash. 142 00:15:40,994 --> 00:15:48,275 That causes the cost of being a 51% miner to be high. 143 00:15:48,275 --> 00:15:54,515 If there is an occasional spike in fees, the miners get a windfall, but if they don't expect 144 00:15:54,515 --> 00:16:00,595 those fees to happen again and again, then it isn't actually going to increase the security 145 00:16:00,595 --> 00:16:06,815 budget as much as you would think because you need to have predictably high fees in 146 00:16:06,815 --> 00:16:10,275 order for the security budget to increase. 147 00:16:10,275 --> 00:16:17,955 Because the security budget is a function of future expected income, not the future 148 00:16:17,955 --> 00:16:21,515 actual income, but the future expected income. 149 00:16:21,515 --> 00:16:22,515 Do you agree? 150 00:16:22,515 --> 00:16:23,515 Yeah, no. 151 00:16:23,515 --> 00:16:24,515 I completely agree. 152 00:16:24,515 --> 00:16:33,075 I was more pointing to the fact of the idea that Bitcoin can never even get enough fees 153 00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:37,554 to make a sustainable fee structure. 154 00:16:37,554 --> 00:16:39,914 We saw blocks that had a higher fee. 155 00:16:39,914 --> 00:16:45,354 I'm not saying that everything's fixed, we don't need to do anything. 156 00:16:45,354 --> 00:16:50,155 We definitely need sidechains that are a merge mine that support the security budget in line 157 00:16:50,155 --> 00:16:51,155 with it. 158 00:16:51,155 --> 00:16:59,994 But you know what I'm saying, Ethereum folks and stuff who don't even like Bitcoin at all 159 00:16:59,994 --> 00:17:07,715 saying that, hey, Bitcoin is already a non-starter because it can never survive because it can 160 00:17:07,715 --> 00:17:10,955 never, for whatever reason, generate enough fees. 161 00:17:10,955 --> 00:17:14,034 We know it's possible to get enough fees. 162 00:17:14,034 --> 00:17:18,835 Now we just need to work on a way to sustain that and to harness that appetite. 163 00:17:18,835 --> 00:17:21,835 And we see all these people building now. 164 00:17:21,835 --> 00:17:27,875 And so I've never seen as much talk about sidechains on Bitcoin and roll-ups as we have 165 00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:34,315 in the past four days now. 166 00:17:34,315 --> 00:17:46,914 So there was a time in 2017 when the Coinbase was smaller than the fees in the block. 167 00:17:46,914 --> 00:17:53,875 So we've had this situation where the fees were larger than the amount of value that 168 00:17:53,875 --> 00:18:00,355 the miner received from the Coinbase. 169 00:18:00,355 --> 00:18:02,955 So that has occurred before. 170 00:18:03,195 --> 00:18:11,434 In December of 2017, the fees were very high and it was over $50 to send a Bitcoin transaction. 171 00:18:11,434 --> 00:18:16,195 And that was when Greg Maxwell wrote that email publicly where he said he's breaking 172 00:18:16,195 --> 00:18:21,794 out the champagne because we're seeing fees that are high enough to pay for security late 173 00:18:21,794 --> 00:18:29,235 in the far future when the Coinbase has been halved to zero. 174 00:18:29,235 --> 00:18:35,434 So the thing you're saying, we already knew that it was possible to see high fees and 175 00:18:35,434 --> 00:18:39,595 I think that gave people a lot of false confidence and made people complacent. 176 00:18:39,595 --> 00:18:43,115 People thought, okay, wow, the fees are really high. 177 00:18:43,115 --> 00:18:45,235 This will happen again and again. 178 00:18:45,235 --> 00:18:48,835 Surely there'll be high fees and Bitcoin again and again. 179 00:18:48,835 --> 00:18:54,995 But then we had like five years where for a lot of the time the fee was not high. 180 00:18:54,995 --> 00:19:00,514 So I think that it's possible that we'll see low fees in the future and the security 181 00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:02,794 budget problem will be back. 182 00:19:02,794 --> 00:19:04,355 This is confounding to a lot of people. 183 00:19:04,355 --> 00:19:09,514 A lot of people think, well, if Bitcoin adoption is like the fastest growing thing in the history 184 00:19:09,514 --> 00:19:16,754 of the world, surely the block space will become congested and fees will rise. 185 00:19:16,754 --> 00:19:22,875 But I believe that the pro-drivechain view is that without a lot of merged mining going 186 00:19:22,875 --> 00:19:28,235 on, it's very possible that we won't get enough fees. 187 00:19:28,235 --> 00:19:33,434 It's especially likely that we'll have not enough fees if a lot of fees on blockchains 188 00:19:33,434 --> 00:19:39,955 are being paid on blockchains that have nothing to do with Bitcoin. 189 00:19:39,955 --> 00:19:49,475 So every time someone transacts in wrapped Bitcoin or Liquid or Ethereum, there are no 190 00:19:49,475 --> 00:19:52,835 transaction fees paid to Bitcoin miners. 191 00:19:52,835 --> 00:19:57,475 So we need more merged mining in order to fix this security budget. 192 00:19:57,475 --> 00:19:58,875 That's like the pro-drivechain view. 193 00:19:59,639 --> 00:20:04,399 I think, however, I think to make a comprehensive argument about that, though, would require 194 00:20:04,399 --> 00:20:10,079 like a very advanced economic analysis for someone to somehow model the whole universe 195 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:19,039 and find out whether or not the transaction fees will be enough to fund security. 196 00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:20,039 It's very complicated. 197 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:25,879 There's all kinds of assumptions in there about the value of Bitcoin and the innovations 198 00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:31,278 that can be expected regarding people trying to transact inexpensively. 199 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:44,639 Yeah. And at what point in cost do people stop interacting on mainchain and just go 200 00:20:44,639 --> 00:20:47,839 to one of those sidechains that doesn't merge mine? 201 00:20:48,918 --> 00:20:50,238 And what are the implications? 202 00:20:50,278 --> 00:20:55,839 And yeah, could there ever be a shock if we suddenly saw fees like quadruple 203 00:20:55,879 --> 00:20:59,278 one day and then people just suddenly stop using it? 204 00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:05,079 Like, would we see some kind of security shock where we saw the hash rate fluctuate 205 00:21:05,079 --> 00:21:08,439 like greatly within one day or two or something? 206 00:21:08,478 --> 00:21:12,238 I don't know. I don't really know enough about that side of things. 207 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,119 What is bedtime? 208 00:21:17,399 --> 00:21:19,278 I guess Bitcoin ecosystem development. 209 00:21:19,399 --> 00:21:25,558 We made a little drawings, little draw pictures on some NFTs on RSK. 210 00:21:26,719 --> 00:21:27,719 Cool. 211 00:21:28,238 --> 00:21:35,478 So using IPNS, which is like a protocol within IPFS where you can actually most people 212 00:21:35,478 --> 00:21:39,278 think, OK, yeah, you make your NFT, you got your token URI there and it points to an 213 00:21:39,278 --> 00:21:43,478 IPFS file, which is a content identified file. 214 00:21:43,518 --> 00:21:47,719 If anything in that file changes one pixel, it's a completely different hash. 215 00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:50,278 So it's a permanent thing. 216 00:21:50,598 --> 00:21:57,158 However, IPNS is a protocol where basically just points to a different immutable file 217 00:21:57,878 --> 00:21:59,719 and the user can actually change that. 218 00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:06,198 So you can come on, mint a NFT canvas, draw a smiley face, send it to your friend and 219 00:22:06,198 --> 00:22:12,758 your friend can draw a mustache and a funny hat on and kind of like an MVP for maybe 220 00:22:12,758 --> 00:22:14,799 like a decentralized docusign one day. 221 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,239 You got to get encryption and a couple of other things added, but it's more of a fun 222 00:22:20,239 --> 00:22:23,398 just little learning experience for me more than anything. 223 00:22:26,318 --> 00:22:29,558 And built on RSK because, yeah, merge mining. 224 00:22:30,398 --> 00:22:36,079 Cool. So you like Drivechain primarily because of the merge mining or for another 225 00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:37,079 reason? 226 00:22:39,239 --> 00:22:41,439 Yeah, 100 percent because of the merge mining. 227 00:22:42,398 --> 00:22:44,758 Like when I was looking to build this project, I mean. 228 00:22:46,198 --> 00:22:50,918 Probably would have had more users on Polygon or something, but I don't really like 229 00:22:51,639 --> 00:22:57,918 those other things. And honestly, actually, in my research, I went to Vitalik's website 230 00:22:57,918 --> 00:23:02,398 and I read about sold out tokens and I decided I didn't want to do anything to do with 231 00:23:02,719 --> 00:23:10,719 Ethereum. I mean, yeah, sure, RSK is an EVM, but yeah, I didn't want anything to do 232 00:23:10,719 --> 00:23:15,118 with that project or that side of this crypto space. 233 00:23:15,118 --> 00:23:16,478 In case he might steal your soul? 234 00:23:19,478 --> 00:23:25,758 Well, if you go to his website and read that, it's a little frightening, just the 235 00:23:25,758 --> 00:23:33,439 assumptions that he seems to have about the future of where his technology might go. 236 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:39,719 Well, I read his whole book, Proof of Stake, which was a collection of his more 237 00:23:39,719 --> 00:23:40,838 important essays. 238 00:23:42,478 --> 00:23:44,558 I am familiar with his work. 239 00:23:47,439 --> 00:23:52,599 I think that maybe if Drivechain's adopted, Ethereum will go all the way to zero. 240 00:23:53,278 --> 00:23:57,758 However, I think it would require the Bitcoin community to really rally around this 241 00:23:58,318 --> 00:24:00,999 idea and make it work in an exciting way. 242 00:24:00,999 --> 00:24:06,838 For example, let's say the Bitcoin community adopts Drivechain and then many users 243 00:24:06,838 --> 00:24:08,318 embrace these sidechains. 244 00:24:08,318 --> 00:24:14,719 They send money to the sidechains and start using them for privacy, for DNS, for smart 245 00:24:14,719 --> 00:24:21,119 contracts, for Thunder, large block, low fee transactions. 246 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,799 If we make use of all these different projects, then we can make a lot of money. 247 00:24:26,959 --> 00:24:32,158 Then all of these planned Drivechains would have billions of dollars of value. 248 00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:38,359 If just 1% of Bitcoiners were in each of them, each would have $4 billion. 249 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,438 So it would be very exciting to see Bitcoin have all these interesting sidechains 250 00:24:43,639 --> 00:24:45,519 operating on top of it. 251 00:24:45,758 --> 00:24:51,639 And it could be a very successful thing for Bitcoin, where Bitcoin would have this 252 00:24:51,959 --> 00:24:57,318 narrative of innovation and experimentation and growth and creativity. 253 00:24:58,399 --> 00:25:03,239 And it would be a very exciting time for Bitcoin. 254 00:25:04,598 --> 00:25:07,239 And then the base chain could benefit from ossification. 255 00:25:12,878 --> 00:25:17,079 So that would, yeah, Bitcoin would have very strong narratives. 256 00:25:17,158 --> 00:25:23,559 And then I think all the narratives of Ethereum would be displaced. 257 00:25:25,399 --> 00:25:27,399 So I think there could be a big change. 258 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:35,198 The Bitcoin community could really pivot in an exciting way, potentially, with 259 00:25:35,598 --> 00:25:37,279 advanced sidechains. 260 00:25:43,158 --> 00:25:43,878 Yeah, I agree. 261 00:25:43,918 --> 00:25:51,799 And one of the other reasons why I like RSK so much, just kind of in my research, 262 00:25:51,799 --> 00:25:57,679 both of my projects, I was researching IPFS, kind of its history, where it came 263 00:25:57,679 --> 00:25:59,279 from, where it's going and all that stuff. 264 00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:06,359 And one of the members of the Consensus Labs, which is a part of IPFS, Marko 265 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,079 Bukolic wrote this paper on the future of decentralized computing. 266 00:26:11,158 --> 00:26:19,639 And he talks about how Filecoin and things like that need to be rooted and anchored 267 00:26:19,639 --> 00:26:22,239 on Bitcoin rather than a proof of stake system. 268 00:26:22,239 --> 00:26:25,758 And he goes into the technical arguments, why that's a necessity. 269 00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:30,438 If you're going to have an actual decentralized system, it needs to be rooted 270 00:26:30,438 --> 00:26:32,438 on a base layer that's actually decentralized. 271 00:26:33,758 --> 00:26:36,038 He explains it extremely well thought out. 272 00:26:37,478 --> 00:26:40,519 And that kind of really solidified my idea. 273 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:47,119 Stacks is cool and stuff like that, but it is a necessity for it to be merge mined. 274 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:52,198 Because otherwise, if it's not getting its security from Bitcoin, then it's just 275 00:26:53,598 --> 00:26:58,079 faking it. It's just some remora chain being like, look, we put our hash on the 276 00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:03,598 Bitcoin blockchain. We used to say that that hash is legit. 277 00:27:06,639 --> 00:27:07,158 Yes. 278 00:27:11,519 --> 00:27:17,598 I mean, it seems so obvious to me, but there's so many other people out there that 279 00:27:17,598 --> 00:27:24,559 don't get it yet. But hey, man, I've been in since 2018, so I've only kind of, you 280 00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:27,839 know, seen the light in the past, about, I don't know, 16 months. 281 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,878 It's a while to come around, I guess, for some of us. 282 00:27:33,478 --> 00:27:40,998 Well, many people have taken a long time to figure everything out. 283 00:27:47,959 --> 00:27:52,519 Actually, yeah, I guess BIP300 has probably been around longer than I've been in the 284 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:53,119 space. 285 00:27:55,918 --> 00:27:56,438 Yeah. 286 00:27:57,438 --> 00:27:57,918 Well, 287 00:28:10,318 --> 00:28:13,119 this is drivechain Twitter spaces, we meet every day. 288 00:28:14,038 --> 00:28:19,478 This is drivechain Twitter spaces, we meet every Monday and Thursday on Twitter 289 00:28:19,478 --> 00:28:27,158 space to discuss drivechain. Bitcoin Improving Proposal 300 and 301. 290 00:28:29,399 --> 00:28:33,039 Enabling Bitcoin to have sidechains that are, as Adam Back has said, 291 00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:38,758 sidechains that are more peer-to-peer would be stronger and more resilient, and 292 00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:42,798 more harmonious with Bitcoin than the sidechains we have today. 293 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:48,798 Sidechains that are more peer-to-peer means sidechains in which no one is 294 00:28:48,798 --> 00:28:50,039 necessarily the only one. 295 00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:51,878 And so, 296 00:28:51,878 --> 00:28:58,719 instead, a sidechain that uses drivechain would rely on the dynamic, global 297 00:28:58,758 --> 00:29:03,678 multitude of Bitcoin miners to play an important role in the security of the 298 00:29:03,678 --> 00:29:04,118 world. 299 00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:05,998 And so, 300 00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:09,719 that's what we're going to be talking about today. 301 00:29:10,919 --> 00:29:11,118 So, 302 00:29:12,118 --> 00:29:15,919 I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer, and 303 00:29:15,919 --> 00:29:20,519 then I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more resilient, and 304 00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:23,438 then I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer. 305 00:29:23,438 --> 00:29:23,758 And so, 306 00:29:23,758 --> 00:29:27,279 I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer, and 307 00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:30,079 then I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer. 308 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:30,318 And so, 309 00:29:30,318 --> 00:29:33,639 I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer, and 310 00:29:33,639 --> 00:29:36,238 then I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer. 311 00:29:36,238 --> 00:29:36,479 And so, 312 00:29:36,479 --> 00:29:39,558 I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer, and 313 00:29:39,558 --> 00:29:42,198 then I'm going to be talking about the sidechains that are more peer-to-peer. 314 00:29:42,198 --> 00:29:42,438 And so, 315 00:29:42,558 --> 00:29:47,158 accrues value because it's -to -peer in 316 00:29:48,158 --> 00:29:53,658 native sidechain technology like 317 00:29:53,658 --> 00:29:59,298 Drivechain would accrue more value probably than sidechains that Bitcoin 318 00:29:59,298 --> 00:30:01,617 currently has. it's 319 00:30:01,937 --> 00:30:03,537 a very exciting upgrade for Bitcoin. 320 00:30:10,337 --> 00:30:13,037 And it could be coming this year, maybe. 321 00:30:15,917 --> 00:30:20,777 Drivechain is really on track, a lot more interest and attention and discussion on 322 00:30:20,796 --> 00:30:22,736 it than in the past. 323 00:30:24,926 --> 00:30:30,696 This is a great time to be interested in Drivechain as many people are promoting it as 324 00:30:30,696 --> 00:30:32,216 a scaling solution for Bitcoin. 325 00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:39,876 And who knows if these fees 326 00:30:39,974 --> 00:30:43,254 will stay high or go back down. 327 00:30:44,374 --> 00:30:48,294 But that is not the rationale for Drivechain. 328 00:30:50,574 --> 00:30:56,534 The security budget problem is exciting and interesting, but it is not the 329 00:30:56,534 --> 00:30:57,914 fundamental case for Drivechain. 330 00:30:57,914 --> 00:30:59,014 In fact, when Drag Chain 331 00:30:59,153 --> 00:31:03,453 was initially conceived, people weren't talking about the security budget. 332 00:31:04,113 --> 00:31:06,993 Drivechain was designed originally in 2015, 333 00:31:09,093 --> 00:31:14,833 our common contemporary understanding of the security budget arose in 2018, 334 00:31:14,833 --> 00:31:18,332 when Jordan McKinney wrote 335 00:31:18,372 --> 00:31:24,252 his three -part essay on the security budget on his blog, which Paul 336 00:31:24,252 --> 00:31:29,472 links to in Paul's initial security budget essay written in 2019. 337 00:31:31,732 --> 00:31:36,452 Jordan coins the term security budget in that blog post that he wrote. 338 00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:40,910 he also coins the term security factor. 339 00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:47,650 The security budget is the amount of value received by the miners on -chain. 340 00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:49,970 Their fees plus the Coinbase. 341 00:31:50,370 --> 00:31:54,810 But the security factor is the ratio between the security budget and the market cap of 342 00:31:54,810 --> 00:31:55,130 Bitcoin. 343 00:31:56,789 --> 00:32:02,549 A lot of people think it would be fine if fees rise just enough to offset the 344 00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:04,209 diminution of the subsidy. 345 00:32:04,709 --> 00:32:10,549 But in fact, that would cause the security budget to be constant. 346 00:32:11,209 --> 00:32:15,749 And if the market cap of Bitcoin is rising over time, then 347 00:32:15,867 --> 00:32:18,127 we would have a falling security factor. 348 00:32:19,647 --> 00:32:20,327 So, 349 00:32:22,007 --> 00:32:25,167 Lyn Alden understands this same dynamic. 350 00:32:25,907 --> 00:32:29,907 She doesn't use the term security budget or security factor, but in her essay of March 351 00:32:29,907 --> 00:32:34,827 2021 on Bitcoin fee modeling, Lyn Alden correctly describes 352 00:32:35,046 --> 00:32:41,006 this, and she suggests that total security spending of about 1.5 353 00:32:41,006 --> 00:32:43,066 % might be best for Bitcoin in the long run. 354 00:32:44,066 --> 00:32:49,786 So if Bitcoin achieves a value of $1 trillion of market cap, then every 355 00:32:49,786 --> 00:32:54,206 year the total miner income ideally would be about one and a half 356 00:32:54,225 --> 00:32:56,405 trillion per year? 357 00:32:58,105 --> 00:33:03,725 In other words, Bitcoin should spend around 1 % or more of its total value every year 358 00:33:03,725 --> 00:33:04,905 on security, 359 00:33:06,465 --> 00:33:09,265 the maintenance of the monetary system. 360 00:33:12,885 --> 00:33:13,245 Seems 361 00:33:13,403 --> 00:33:13,823 reasonable. 362 00:33:20,643 --> 00:33:25,723 the fundamental case for Drivechain wasn't originally about security budget, and when 363 00:33:25,723 --> 00:33:31,603 fees are high, an equally profound case can be made in the name of scaling as opposed 364 00:33:31,603 --> 00:33:32,582 to security budget. 365 00:33:35,002 --> 00:33:40,942 enabling more throughput, more peer -to -peer onboarding, more non -custodial onboarding 366 00:33:43,002 --> 00:33:46,942 for Bitcoiners is necessary when fees are high. 367 00:33:50,122 --> 00:33:51,722 So security budget is 368 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,860 not the major, not the most fundamental case that you can make for Drivechain. 369 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,320 A more fundamental case has to do with the fact that Drivechain enables greater 370 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:01,940 innovation. 371 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,700 This is the way that Mike Tidwell and Adam Back talk about Drivechain. 372 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,480 It's not about the security budget. 373 00:34:09,580 --> 00:34:10,939 To them, it's mainly about 374 00:34:10,939 --> 00:34:11,839 innovation, 375 00:34:13,819 --> 00:34:18,159 Bitcoin to be a platform for creativity, experimentation, and innovation. 376 00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:23,119 scientific laboratory of in economics and software. 377 00:34:25,299 --> 00:34:28,479 So Mr. Bedtime, that is the case for Drivechain. 378 00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:30,999 It's about innovation first and foremost. 379 00:34:32,099 --> 00:34:37,899 another way of looking at it, another dimension with which to understand drivechain is 380 00:34:37,899 --> 00:34:43,299 the way that Paul would say, is it's about handling disagreements 381 00:34:43,859 --> 00:34:46,659 in the Bitcoin community in a way that doesn't. 382 00:34:46,939 --> 00:34:49,659 lead to fracturing of the community. 383 00:34:50,139 --> 00:34:52,739 people have disagreements over what the blockchain should be. 384 00:34:53,999 --> 00:34:59,359 Drivechain allows people to experiment and develop and create value 385 00:34:59,359 --> 00:35:03,799 for themselves and others on sidechains rather than arguing over what the main chain 386 00:35:03,799 --> 00:35:04,579 should look like. 387 00:35:07,912 --> 00:35:13,232 It's about handling and resolving disagreements while keeping people 388 00:35:13,232 --> 00:35:19,152 together. It solves, as the economists would say, solves a coordination problem. 389 00:35:23,012 --> 00:35:24,612 So, it's not just about the security 390 00:35:24,725 --> 00:35:29,765 budget. The security budget is a subset or a symptom of 391 00:35:29,765 --> 00:35:35,225 the more fundamental issue, which is about disagreements and innovation. 392 00:35:36,585 --> 00:35:39,945 People want to create new things, but they don't want to have to get approval from the 393 00:35:39,945 --> 00:35:41,065 whole community all the time. 394 00:35:42,305 --> 00:35:43,525 And the blockchain can't be two 395 00:35:43,618 --> 00:35:44,398 different things at once. 396 00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:46,998 can't have large blocks and small blocks at the same time. 397 00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:51,878 The solution, of course, is Drivechain, where the large blockers and the small blockers 398 00:35:51,878 --> 00:35:56,918 can get along because they're using different blockchains with a common unit of 399 00:35:56,918 --> 00:35:57,218 account. 400 00:35:58,498 --> 00:36:01,018 So that is what Drivechain is all about. 401 00:36:01,458 --> 00:36:02,511 You have the sidechain 402 00:36:02,531 --> 00:36:04,731 and the mainchain, so two separate blockchains, 403 00:36:06,491 --> 00:36:09,371 but a single set of 21 million. 404 00:36:12,631 --> 00:36:13,451 What do you think? 405 00:36:14,051 --> 00:36:14,651 Are you convinced? 406 00:36:15,591 --> 00:36:17,951 You said it was mainly about the security budget for you. 407 00:36:18,511 --> 00:36:21,403 I used to think the same thing, but now I see 408 00:36:21,463 --> 00:36:22,983 that there's a deeper argument. 409 00:36:31,363 --> 00:36:32,263 Well, mean, 410 00:36:33,683 --> 00:36:38,563 I kind of thought it was a given in our conversation about like the innovation and 411 00:36:38,563 --> 00:36:40,296 stuff. I'm 412 00:36:40,296 --> 00:36:43,476 on RSK because I need expressive smart contracts. 413 00:36:43,836 --> 00:36:48,236 yeah, 100%. Also I want a privacy layer on Bitcoin. 414 00:36:49,156 --> 00:36:53,456 That's one thing I always tell people who are critical of Drivechain when they first 415 00:36:53,456 --> 00:36:54,776 hear about it. 416 00:36:55,016 --> 00:36:57,816 It's just like, yeah, you like Monero and Ring signature? 417 00:36:58,116 --> 00:36:58,856 We could have 418 00:36:59,189 --> 00:37:03,949 a Bitcoin version of that a drivechain so it could be actual Bitcoin you could trust 419 00:37:03,949 --> 00:37:09,229 it because you know you could you know get back to the main chain and then they kind of 420 00:37:09,229 --> 00:37:12,989 start thinking about it because you know as Bitcoin maxes everyone just kind of need 421 00:37:12,989 --> 00:37:16,709 jerk reaction dismisses any innovation at all on Bitcoin 422 00:37:26,402 --> 00:37:27,502 Well said. 423 00:37:32,062 --> 00:37:32,662 Well, 424 00:37:38,055 --> 00:37:42,495 What kind of numbers of people are involved in the RSK community? 425 00:37:43,035 --> 00:37:45,215 Can you give me a sense of what you're aware of? 426 00:37:47,595 --> 00:37:48,915 I can speak more. 427 00:37:49,075 --> 00:37:54,315 I there's 600 plus active members of the sovereign community. 428 00:37:55,868 --> 00:38:01,748 and I mean 429 00:38:01,748 --> 00:38:07,568 that's where I'm most active on RSK but there 430 00:38:07,568 --> 00:38:13,568 are there's guy Stan the Great is building an 431 00:38:13,568 --> 00:38:14,761 NFT marketplace 432 00:38:14,941 --> 00:38:19,181 on RSK that's also going to have ordinals and stuff. 433 00:38:20,541 --> 00:38:21,941 that's exciting to see. 434 00:38:22,941 --> 00:38:27,621 And I believe he was actually one of OG sovereign guys. 435 00:38:28,201 --> 00:38:33,654 Started building some other projects, left for a while, and is bringing another 436 00:38:33,674 --> 00:38:39,094 project back to RSK so that's exciting to see especially for me because I've got like 437 00:38:39,094 --> 00:38:45,054 an NFT fun little thing on there and there's nowhere to buy them or trade them 438 00:38:45,054 --> 00:38:49,354 or stuff and honestly right now you can't even see them in the block explorer because 439 00:38:49,354 --> 00:38:52,547 you can't verify a contract on there but that's all 440 00:38:52,587 --> 00:38:54,567 changing very shortly. 441 00:38:54,807 --> 00:39:00,547 There's lots of upgrades coming to the usability, the UI, 442 00:39:00,707 --> 00:39:03,007 UX, for different apps and stuff on RSK. 443 00:39:03,587 --> 00:39:04,887 excited to see that. 444 00:39:05,407 --> 00:39:05,867 Cool. 445 00:39:10,987 --> 00:39:11,439 Well... 446 00:39:28,499 --> 00:39:32,019 Usually, run the chain Twitter Spaces in the morning. 447 00:39:32,979 --> 00:39:38,639 Today, we're having an evening, late night drivechain Twitter Space. 448 00:39:40,299 --> 00:39:41,879 Is that why you joined? 449 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:43,059 it's bedtime? 450 00:39:45,439 --> 00:39:45,959 Yeah! 451 00:39:47,819 --> 00:39:49,639 Yeah, I'm not up in the morning. 452 00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:51,739 Yeah, I get like a whole different crowd. 453 00:39:52,959 --> 00:39:55,719 This late night Twitter space, it's a whole different vibe. 454 00:39:58,019 --> 00:40:02,639 So Drivechain is probably going to come around on Bitcoin for one of the following 455 00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:03,179 reasons. 456 00:40:04,759 --> 00:40:05,894 So one 457 00:40:05,974 --> 00:40:08,874 reason is love of innovation. 458 00:40:09,154 --> 00:40:11,194 People might just start loving innovation. 459 00:40:13,294 --> 00:40:15,174 And then they'll just want to have Drivechain. 460 00:40:16,574 --> 00:40:20,414 Another reason is that there could be the fees are too high. 461 00:40:20,954 --> 00:40:22,494 People want to scale Bitcoin. 462 00:40:23,594 --> 00:40:24,349 Another reason is 463 00:40:24,449 --> 00:40:29,169 the fees are too low and they want to get more security budget from merge mining. 464 00:40:31,669 --> 00:40:37,669 then another reason is the so -called flippening, which is where Ethereum's market 465 00:40:37,669 --> 00:40:39,429 cap surpasses Bitcoins, 466 00:40:41,309 --> 00:40:42,789 causing fear and 467 00:40:42,803 --> 00:40:48,603 loathing within the Bitcoin community and people want to something to stop 468 00:40:48,603 --> 00:40:49,863 that and reverse it. 469 00:40:50,223 --> 00:40:52,723 they'll embrace Drivechain for that reason. 470 00:40:53,543 --> 00:40:56,023 So those are four reasons why Drivechain might be adopted. 471 00:40:56,143 --> 00:41:01,258 Another one is the consensus upgrade ossification problem 472 00:41:01,338 --> 00:41:06,858 where people want to do changes to Bitcoin to improve it, but they also want to have 473 00:41:06,858 --> 00:41:10,758 ossification for purposes of stability and and 474 00:41:12,218 --> 00:41:15,998 So they want to stop making changes, but they want to keep on developing. 475 00:41:20,212 --> 00:41:25,472 So that's like the fifth reason they might do Drivechain, is if everyone realizes that 476 00:41:25,472 --> 00:41:28,892 ossification would be good, but also development and creativity are good. 477 00:41:29,932 --> 00:41:32,812 However, that fifth reason is probably the most complex of all five. 478 00:41:33,492 --> 00:41:35,132 So it's unlikely that'll be the reason. 479 00:41:36,372 --> 00:41:38,052 Now all of these reasons are good reasons 480 00:41:38,167 --> 00:41:39,427 to adopt Drivechain. 481 00:41:40,567 --> 00:41:43,167 However, I do believe that... 482 00:41:45,727 --> 00:41:48,407 Well, let's say... 483 00:41:48,407 --> 00:41:53,267 I guess the last one, the consensus upgrade ossification problem, that reason I think 484 00:41:53,267 --> 00:41:54,887 would be like the Paul Sztorc reason. 485 00:41:55,427 --> 00:41:56,621 Because when he says people 486 00:41:56,681 --> 00:42:02,161 disagree about what the blockchain should be, that's what Drivechain is designed 487 00:42:02,161 --> 00:42:08,161 to ameliorate or alleviate is this disagreement, this friction within 488 00:42:08,161 --> 00:42:13,401 the community. I think what he means there is the same thing as what we mean when we 489 00:42:13,401 --> 00:42:14,981 say the consensus 490 00:42:15,076 --> 00:42:18,156 slash upgrade slash ossification problem. 491 00:42:20,276 --> 00:42:22,776 I guess reason number five would be his favorite reason. 492 00:42:23,556 --> 00:42:28,496 But I feel that love of innovation, the Adam Back, Mike Tidwell innovation idea. 493 00:42:29,676 --> 00:42:33,276 I just say it's I refer to them because I have all these different 494 00:42:33,530 --> 00:42:39,410 tweets I've collected from what people have said about Drivechain and 495 00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:43,430 those two people talk about innovation in a nice way. 496 00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:46,110 Other people have other reasons why they like it. 497 00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:48,670 Like you like it because of the fees and security budget. 498 00:42:49,110 --> 00:42:51,985 There's a few people who also think the same thing in my list. 499 00:42:52,825 --> 00:42:53,765 My list, by the way, 500 00:42:55,005 --> 00:42:59,285 at drivechain.info forward slash friends. 501 00:42:59,765 --> 00:43:03,945 That's drivechain.info forward slash friends. 502 00:43:05,005 --> 00:43:07,425 It's a Google document that has this list I made. 503 00:43:10,145 --> 00:43:10,439 So 504 00:43:10,439 --> 00:43:13,779 which of those things do you think will ultimately cause Drivechain to be adopted? 505 00:43:13,999 --> 00:43:16,839 Will it be love of innovation, 506 00:43:18,259 --> 00:43:19,439 fees being too high, 507 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,259 fees being too low, 508 00:43:24,299 --> 00:43:25,339 or the consensus 509 00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:32,059 upgrade, ossification problem, or is it flippening? 510 00:43:33,279 --> 00:43:34,259 Which of those five? 511 00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:43,999 Consensus upgrade, ossification due to fear of 512 00:43:43,999 --> 00:43:44,679 AI. 513 00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:47,739 for you. 514 00:43:49,059 --> 00:43:54,819 Because in the future, we're gonna see chains come up that have like fully AI 515 00:43:54,819 --> 00:44:00,239 optimized like base languages that are gonna make no sense 516 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,239 to you or I or any other thing that's ever been. 517 00:44:04,459 --> 00:44:05,119 It's gonna be why. 518 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:05,799 AI was 519 00:44:05,856 --> 00:44:10,456 not one of my five things. 520 00:44:11,976 --> 00:44:17,576 Fear of just super hyper accelerated innovation driven by 521 00:44:17,576 --> 00:44:22,136 AI and so they're going to need to ossify the Bitcoin main layer, have some thin layers 522 00:44:22,136 --> 00:44:24,236 that these crazy AI things. 523 00:44:25,273 --> 00:44:29,953 if AI were making blockchains, would have Drivechain already. 524 00:44:33,493 --> 00:44:35,953 we'll get ready for the year of is going to be good. 525 00:44:35,953 --> 00:44:41,773 is not very smart because I asked the AI if Bitcoin should do 526 00:44:41,773 --> 00:44:44,253 Drivechain, and it was very unsure. 527 00:44:45,129 --> 00:44:51,069 I don't think AI has yet to like really take the time to read Paul's blog. 528 00:44:51,889 --> 00:44:57,549 mean, anyone who reads it will be immediately converted into Drivechainization support, 529 00:44:58,409 --> 00:45:00,709 but many people don't. 530 00:45:02,569 --> 00:45:04,106 And that AI might be no exception. 531 00:45:10,306 --> 00:45:11,866 Well, we've covered a lot today. 532 00:45:12,046 --> 00:45:13,886 This has been a fascinating conversation. 533 00:45:14,866 --> 00:45:16,866 It has been a pleasure to talk with you, Mr. 534 00:45:17,166 --> 00:45:17,566 Bedtime. 535 00:45:19,926 --> 00:45:20,726 You as well. 536 00:45:23,523 --> 00:45:26,503 Oh, I didn't catch that last thing you said. 537 00:45:27,123 --> 00:45:28,183 Oh, just you as well. 538 00:45:28,463 --> 00:45:32,583 This is hula vu blue with .rsk, the other guy, listening. 539 00:45:33,703 --> 00:45:35,943 I just have this on my phone. 540 00:45:36,403 --> 00:45:38,923 wait, this is a fascinating revelation. 541 00:45:39,083 --> 00:45:40,263 You're saying you're not Mr. 542 00:45:40,383 --> 00:45:41,863 Bedtime, you're actually hula vu? 543 00:45:41,863 --> 00:45:42,383 cool 544 00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:49,299 Yeah, Hoolavoo Blue is me, but Bedtime Labs is my little... 545 00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:52,739 my project company name. 546 00:45:52,739 --> 00:45:53,939 Oh, so you actually have... 547 00:45:54,679 --> 00:45:56,239 You actually have two identities. 548 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,379 Two? Two men. 549 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,639 Yeah, two men in the same... 550 00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:02,199 Yeah. No, I just have the 551 00:46:02,356 --> 00:46:05,476 bedtime labs going on my phone so I could actually talk on the microphone. 552 00:46:05,656 --> 00:46:07,196 thought you pulled up on my computer on my account. 553 00:46:07,196 --> 00:46:12,076 I see. So I thought there were four people here. 554 00:46:12,196 --> 00:46:13,116 There's actually only three. 555 00:46:14,696 --> 00:46:15,696 Yes. see. 556 00:46:17,616 --> 00:46:20,996 is like overstating the number of people. 557 00:46:22,253 --> 00:46:25,853 is like when Twitter had all those users and it turned out they were all bots and then 558 00:46:25,853 --> 00:46:30,933 Elon tried to back out of the deal yes 559 00:46:30,933 --> 00:46:36,913 indeed well how do you know I'm not training in AI with one of these fans right now I 560 00:46:36,913 --> 00:46:41,189 mean you trained in AI using me that wouldn't be a 561 00:46:41,189 --> 00:46:41,689 good idea. 562 00:46:43,809 --> 00:46:46,469 I would find someone else to train the AI on. 563 00:46:51,409 --> 00:46:53,269 Well, this has been a nice conversation. 564 00:46:53,609 --> 00:46:54,329 Thank you for joining. 565 00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:55,769 Thank you for your questions. 566 00:46:56,009 --> 00:46:57,169 I hope to see you again soon. 567 00:46:57,909 --> 00:46:59,669 This has been Drivechain Twitter Spaces. 568 00:47:00,269 --> 00:47:00,606 We meet 569 00:47:00,646 --> 00:47:06,566 every Monday and Thursday to discuss Bitcoin Improvement Proposal 300 and 301, 570 00:47:07,186 --> 00:47:12,546 a potentially transformative upgrade to bring advanced sidechains to Bitcoin, advanced 571 00:47:12,546 --> 00:47:18,406 sidechains for scaling, privacy, DNS, smart contracts, and 572 00:47:18,406 --> 00:47:20,023 many other fascinating 573 00:47:25,903 --> 00:47:30,303 I'll catch you all next time, specifically on Monday. 574 00:47:34,703 --> 00:47:35,363 Have a good evening.