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It's time for Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock.

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I remember that for 100 years we have fought these machines.

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And after a century of war, I remember that which matters most.

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We are still here!

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Tonight, let us make them remember, we are not afraid!

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Thunderstruck!

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no fear!

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No fear, no fear, no fear, no fear, no fear, no fear!

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Here on Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock from the Sonoran Desert.

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Well, we have a special guest today.

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eCash, we're going to be talking about another, another fork of Bitcoin.

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BTC, you got it? You're going to get this too? And why?

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Why, why, why, why, why, why?

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Well, we're going to be talking to Paul Sztorc.

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Am I saying that right?

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Yeah, Storts, basically.

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It's been mispronounced before.

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I know, but I mean, it's your name, man, I want to do it right.

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All right, Paul Sztorc.

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Now, it's going to be an interesting show.

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I wanted to make sure everybody understands what is at stake here.

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We've been covering Bitcoin since the beginning.

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I think it was $1.69 or something when we first started.

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Now, the thing is, is that I'm going, okay, let's go ahead.

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Why crypto to begin with?

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Why so many?

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And why a fork of BTC again?

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Which is the nomenclature for Bitcoin.

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Now, what we want to understand is what Bitcoin...

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I'm going to let Paul just skip to the end on what is Bitcoin.

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How secure it is now with quantum computing coming.

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Is there a concern there or not?

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Why we would be looking for alternatives?

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How integrated has it gotten in with the legacy banking system?

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It got shoehorned into freaking ETFs and Donald J. Trump.

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And you're not allowed to do it until we do it first.

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And here we've done it.

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So it's like GoldmanSucks.gov coin now.

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So I'm going, all right, if we're going to improve it, what needs to be improved?

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Why does it need to be improved?

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Why not just start another crypto?

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Why fork BTC?

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There are some benefits.

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We're going to talk about it.

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But what do you say you do here, Paul?

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Go ahead.

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And let's go ahead and introduce you a little bit.

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What an incredible introduction.

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Well, I want to let them know who we're dealing with here.

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Now, you get all geeky.

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You know, creator of BIP300, 301, Drivechain, blind-merging, mining,

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the Bitwin wallet, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Nobody knows what the hell we're talking about.

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And big thing is that he's an advocate for sidechains,

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sidechains, you know, at other levels, layers.

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But the one thing we want to start off with is he's an advocate of an even smaller
block.

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And I'm like, whoa, it's always been a small block versus big block.

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Well, we can make it even smaller and do what and why.

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But we're going to find out.

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Now, we have some friends in Mexico that have been a big advocate of this,

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and he wanted to make sure that, you know, I had talked to Paul,

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and go ahead, Ernie, ask him all the questions.

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He knows what's up.

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So I'm like, all right, here we go.

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Well, the first thing is let's go ahead and, you know, get your bona fides in order
here.

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You came from where, why, to do what in the beginning.

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Give us your track record in the crypto space to begin with, Paul.

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Okay, all right.

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Well, originally I was an academic, and I worked in the economics department.

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And I then published a couple essays on Bitcoin and proof of work,

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and I published this article on a decentralized prediction market system,

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and that was what was called Truthcoin.

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And at that point Roger Ver, this was like in 2014,

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and then at that point Roger Ver hired me away from academia to work on Bitcoin full
time.

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That was like the beginning, and then I've kind of been involved ever since.

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Wild industry, of course.

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Well, what was Roger's interest in your efforts to do what?

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Well, I think that this is a separate topic, although it's related,

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but prediction markets are a really important technology,

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and I was beating this drum back in, you know, 2012, 2013, 2014, as I mentioned.

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And now with Polymarket and Calshi, you know, they've kind of exploded onto the
scene.

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But I was saying we should do this on Bitcoin a long time ago,

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and even Polymarket and Calshi have only scratched the surface of what I proposed be
done back in 2013,

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which is that you'd have what Professor Robin Hansen called these decision markets,

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where you could have a market that says, like, if we fire the CEO, what will happen
to our stock price?

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Or if the Federal Reserve does policy X, Y, and Z, what will happen to inflation,
unemployment, whatever?

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If we fire, one, the ruling party and replace them with the opposition party in a
democracy,

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what will happen to the budget?

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What will happen to, you know, whatever, everything, spending on various items?

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Okay, let me ask some questions to clear that up.

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This is my experience.

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I've gone to a lot of different, you know, conferences, seminars, Bitcoin, crypto,
this, that.

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One in Texas, they had Bitcoin conferences.

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And what was his name? Snow, I think, you know, they put him on.

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And it was the big racetrack out there, the Great American, whatever, I think near
Austin or something.

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But what happened was, they had these hackathons.

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Whenever they had big conferences, oh, we're gonna have a hackathon.

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And you're, it's like an interview, you know.

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So you have all these hackers out there.

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They, you know, organize, self-organize, spontaneous order themselves into three,
four, five guys.

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And they do a project and they, you know, live, breathe, you know, dry shower, you
know,

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eating Skittles and drinking Red Bulls, you know, in a big room.

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And they just, you know, sleeping bag on the floor.

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And they just go two days of hacking.

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Well, they come up with different things.

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And one of the things, and I would go in and speak to them a little bit, motivate
them and kind of, you know,

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in the top three, we're going to do shows and we'll promote, you know, whatever.

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And we do that.

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Well, what happened, I could see, oh, here we go.

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All the interest of all the VCs and the Capitals, what they do is the winners,

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they'll like give them a reward in crypto or, you know, give them a bunch of money
to work in.

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They get like, you know, 72.6% of the value of they own, you know, whatever of their
life.

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It's kind of like signing a record deal.

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I mean, you know, they, them, those make all the money.

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Well, I saw this happen when one guy, they came up in their presentation,

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what they were going to do is prediction markets.

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They wanted to be able to use Bitcoin because it had so much hash power to where,

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even at the time you were talking about, 13, 14, 15, you know, or even a little bit
before that,

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you had Bitcoin had more processing power than Google.

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I mean, it was like, oh my God.

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I mean, what are we going to do with all this power?

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Well, when they started talking about prediction markets and say,

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we can use this power that we have to predict the market.

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Well, man, venture capital, we're going to make us some money on these kids.

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So that I saw was a holy grail of a lot of this processing power.

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There was big time interest in that.

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Now they were one of the top three.

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They may have won and we do a show on it and all that kind of stuff.

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But that wasn't really the point for me.

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For me, it made it very obvious that people with money,

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they wanted to make a lot more money.

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And that prediction markets is where the money be.

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Well, Polymarket, these are more like exchanges than they are beneficiary.

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There's a lottery or, you know, they're bookies.

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I mean, you know, people that, you know, are betting against each other because
human interaction,

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you know, you can get a pretty good, you know, prediction market.

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If you got a special forces guys out there predicting they're going to take Maduro.

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I mean, which is just all that.

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Yes.

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So, you know, I'm going, well, is that cheating?

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Well, not for everybody else.

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It's just, you know, it's where the money goes.

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It changes the odds on the race results.

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I mean, that's the way it is.

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What you're talking about was different.

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You're more like a Martin Armstrong guy.

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Can we take enough data input to predict what is going to happen when this happens
or this happens or this happens?

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So I just wanted to inject that because it goes into a lot of other things.

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It's not just people's opinion, which is a very good predictor, by the way.

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I'm just saying you ask over a couple of hundred people and you get pretty close to,
you know, the answer.

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But when you're talking about is more like an AI that you're having all this data
put in and then it's going to predict something.

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How far are we?

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Well, I don't think that's quite.

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I'm talking about a market where people would buy and sell.

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They just buy and sell something that's a little bit more complicated.

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So they buy.

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Basically, if you want to do the if then prediction, you have this.

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I don't know how interested people are in the details, but I'm going to.

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Well, yeah.

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You know, this is this is a turning point in a lot of this stuff with crypto.

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People were starting to see that you had all this processing power, that you started
to have this market, that you had all these mines.

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I don't think the processing power with the processing power is effective at solving
the double spend problem and deterring like an attacker from rewriting the chain
history.

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But it's not the prediction market works because you have a current market price for
everything that is expected to happen and combinations of things that might happen.

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And anyone who disagrees can make money by improving the price.

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And that's exactly what happened with that gentleman who was arrested, who was part
of the Maduro raid.

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He in a way, he it's interesting.

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It's an interesting example of like how prediction markets are actually very
effective because the it was this guy basically sold out the U.S.

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government and sold out his his unit to give the information to the people to give
it to the rest of us because he he made this bet that Maduro would be pulled out of
office.

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So he knew that Maduro would be out of office, you know, in one way or another.

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And so he improved the prices in advance.

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He actually improved the accuracy of that.

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But of course, what he did, I can see why, you know, why the armed forces were not
happy about it, obviously.

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So I see why they arrested him.

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It seems like there's a lot of this preemption in the markets on a bunch of stuff,
you know, 20 minutes before Trump does some truth post about we're going to
whatever.

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Somebody's already placed a bet.

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You know, somebody's doing something in the finance world.

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They do these things, event studies, and they just track they can pull all this data
in the world from like every time someone a corporation announces like bad news or
something.

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And so then they just put a graph like this is zero days.

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This is one day after two days after three days after.

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And then they say one day before, two days before, three days before they make a
graph.

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You can just plot like all of them.

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You can plot like seven thousand times when a corporation had bad news.

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And you see the stock price falls like a few days before and then it falls on the
news also.

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But there's always the information always leaks out.

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In a way, it's a good thing it does.

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This is often seen as people people see this as unfair, but actually it is restoring
fairness.

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I don't think I'm going to make a sale on this anytime soon because the entire world
is convinced of X, Y, Z.

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And I'm convinced of the opposite.

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But really, if you think about it, someone who, for example, let's say someone
wanted to make a like, you know, a tech company has bad news and someone knows the
insider knows that the news is going to be bad.

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But meanwhile, you have a completely separate person, some grandma or something, and
they just want to buy diversified S&P 500.

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They want to have like exposure to the tech sector.

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When the insider shorts the stock and decreases the price, that means the grandma
gets a better deal.

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She gets a more fair deal, actually.

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She can get more.

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She gets to buy at a lower price.

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And same for someone who wants to sell if the news is good and it's reversed.

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So really, the insiders actually improve the prices so that all the people who are
not speculating get the fair price.

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But I know everyone in the world is convinced of the opposite of this.

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So I don't think I'm going to convince anyone anytime soon.

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No, not necessarily.

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You know, this has been I we have a lot of, you know, in the market friends and so
on.

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And they're, you know, even naked short selling.

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They go, well, that's a, you know, helps with the price discovery of, you know,
yada, yada.

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I mean, of course, all this stuff gets abused, but I've had it explained to me.

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But the what I'm looking for is the answer to the question of why.

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What was it that you were doing?

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Well, when you as an economist and you're an academic and you write an article,

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you get tapped by Roger Ver to come over and you need to stop wasting your time over
there.

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Come over here.

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Well, when you come over and the first thing, one of the first things that you
realize is that you can have a prediction market.

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Well, a prediction market isn't necessarily AI predicting or whatever.

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You provided a mechanism, a platform for the real price to be discovered by the
participation of people.

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Am I correct?

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That's right.

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Okay.

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So this is, well, it's just another market.

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You know, it's just competing market and it's faster and cheaper.

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But to do that, you need a good crypto.

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Which crypto?

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One crypto, this crypto, that crypto.

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Now, Roger, having problems with the block size with Bitcoin, says, we need to fork
it.

222
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:04,000
We go Bitcoin cash, which the Bitcoin community freaked because he called it Bitcoin
something, you know.

223
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:19,000
So you have Bitcoin cash that has a larger block size so it can have more
transactions to revive what the promise was of being cheap transactions, fast,
secure.

224
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000
And so on.

225
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,000
Well, it kept smaller blocks kind of took it away from that.

226
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
And you can see why.

227
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,000
So that the miners and other people, they make more money and sailor, go sell your
children, buy more Bitcoin.

228
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,000
We're all going to get rich as if that was the goal.

229
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000
The goal was peer to peer digital cash.

230
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,000
That was the goal.

231
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,000
In fact, that's what it said.

232
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Okay.

233
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
But then those get charged.

234
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:54,000
So then you come out and you're saying, well, we're going to need to reduce the
block size down to, you know, 400 kilobytes.

235
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000
We're going to half it.

236
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000
You know, from what the original go.

237
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000
We're going to go the other way.

238
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,000
Okay.

239
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000
Let's start there.

240
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,000
Explain it to me, Paul.

241
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Why?

242
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,000
What is the benefit?

243
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,000
Why are you doing this and why are you reducing the block size?

244
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:18,000
Well, I think, you know, even the four megabyte blocks, which is the current BTC.

245
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:25,000
If you include the block, all the block weight and you include like I don't want to
get into the details, but like so when Bitcoin cash.

246
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,000
Oh, please do.

247
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,000
Okay.

248
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,000
So like four.

249
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000
Okay.

250
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000
One megabyte, four megabytes, eight megabytes.

251
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:39,000
Like that's that's not enough to scale to the whole planet's transaction rate.

252
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,000
You really need to go much bigger than that.

253
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,000
And I have gone that that big direction on the L2s.

254
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000
So the L2s have lots of block space.

255
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000
Okay.

256
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000
L1, L2.

257
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,000
You got to you got to tell people what that means.

258
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
The L2 is like optional.

259
00:17:54,000 --> 00:18:01,000
And my conception of the so the original like if you ask most Bitcoiners, they think
of L2 as the lightning network.

260
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:06,000
To me, I was very interested in the lightning network like in 10 years ago.

261
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,000
I was one of the first people to be excited about the lightning network.

262
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:19,000
And I was also one of the earlier people, definitely not the first, but I was one of
the earlier people to say that actually this is not that great.

263
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000
And so I can talk about the lightning network for hours if you want.

264
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,000
But that's how much time.

265
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000
Let's do it this way.

266
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,000
How much time do you got?

267
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,000
I'll go to your board or board.

268
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,000
I don't care.

269
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,000
Okay.

270
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000
I mean, I've got a basically like another 90 minutes.

271
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000
All right.

272
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
So, you know, let's just relax.

273
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000
Don't, you know, get all in a hurry.

274
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,000
We can go ahead and get through all this because this is important.

275
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,000
We haven't done a lot of this for a while.

276
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:51,000
You know, going through this, I did nine hour shows to have explained to me so that
I can explain it to people.

277
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Lightning network.

278
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,000
What the problem with Bitcoin was is that to do these are master card.

279
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,000
You can get like a gazillion transactions a minute.

280
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000
I mean, you know, there's really no limit.

281
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:11,000
But to have Bitcoin and crypto work and it be secure and it be, you know, you're
have your own custody of stuff.

282
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,000
You're not having a bank account.

283
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,000
You do it on your own phone to kind of there's a lot of other features.

284
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,000
Well, you have how many transactions can you do every 10 minutes?

285
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,000
Well, there's a block of information.

286
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,000
How many transactions is it can take it to start it at one megabyte, which is are
you kidding me?

287
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:35,000
You know, so then technology expands speed, Internet processing power.

288
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000
All I mean, you know, one megabyte might be 10.

289
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,000
I mean, you know, what's the difference?

290
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,000
Well, then you have the small block, big block people argue with each other.

291
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
You have smaller transactions.

292
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,000
Well, that means people can hold a lot of the data.

293
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,000
They can, you know, do it themselves.

294
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000
They put it on their computer.

295
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,000
You know it.

296
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:06,000
But it clogs up the system and the process, that number of popular crypto that you
want to have all these transactions.

297
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000
You know, you can only do so many every 10 minutes.

298
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:15,000
So what happens is the price of the transaction goes up, the kind of supply and
demand it pushes down.

299
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000
How many they do?

300
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,000
They do larger dollar amounts because it's not really based on, you know, the value
of the transaction.

301
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,000
It's just it's a transaction.

302
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000
There's five dollars or five million.

303
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,000
You know, it's just, you know, it's a transaction.

304
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:35,000
So what happens is the argument that a lot of people were making to compete with
credit cards and so on.

305
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,000
You need to have a much bigger block to put more transactions into.

306
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
Well, for whatever reason.

307
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Yeah, but but then the miners don't make a bunch of money.

308
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000
I mean, we make some money.

309
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
We won't make money.

310
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000
So you go, OK, OK, OK.

311
00:20:51,000 --> 00:21:00,000
Well, then you have the forking of Bitcoin and then Bitcoin cash and this Satoshi
vision and on and on and on and on.

312
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
Diamond, gold, whatever, 15 gazillion, because you can do it.

313
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:12,000
So as that goes off, they increase the transactions by increasing the block size
that how many can put in there.

314
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,000
It starts working.

315
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,000
All right.

316
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,000
We're good to do that.

317
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,000
Bitcoin wanted to go the other way.

318
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,000
Nope, nope, nope.

319
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:24,000
But the transaction fees got thirty six dollars, sixty dollars to send five dollars.

320
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,000
Definitely.

321
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,000
It wasn't bubblegum money.

322
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,000
You know, Tom Vase is a good friend, but he's a maxi to the point.

323
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,000
Just piss me in Max Keiser and all these guys.

324
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,000
I'm like, you're killing me.

325
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,000
You know, you're not going to have wide adoption.

326
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:43,000
Grandma is not going to use it if it costs, you know, twenty dollars a transaction
to buy a cup of coffee.

327
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,000
That is not what was promised.

328
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,000
But they want to do it anyway.

329
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,000
And then here comes the.

330
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,000
All right.

331
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
You want speed.

332
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,000
You want cheap.

333
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,000
We're going to do the lightning network.

334
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,000
Pizza Hut's going to have its own lightning node, its own network.

335
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000
You got like an account, you know, with Pizza Hut or Wal-Mart or what.

336
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,000
I mean, you keep opening up all.

337
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
It's more like bank branches.

338
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000
So then you're going to look at this.

339
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,000
You're just shoehorning crypto into the legacy banking system and, you know, calling
it good.

340
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
I'm like, no, no, no, no.

341
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
I see what you're doing.

342
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
So lightning network.

343
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
We had good friends and so on.

344
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000
They got their nodes up and served.

345
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,000
But it never really worked.

346
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,000
It didn't go.

347
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,000
Then you get the SegWit.

348
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,000
You get to all these other off chain solutions.

349
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,000
The chain, the block chain that has all the information.

350
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Then you have kind of a sidechain over here that can eventually someday when you
want to will settle on to the main chain.

351
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,000
So I'm going.

352
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:50,000
This is this is you might as well just call him, you know, the Bank of America chase
and, you know, whatever.

353
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000
We're getting right back where you want.

354
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And then the government wants to have KYC and they want to see everything.

355
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000
It's just OK.

356
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,000
I'm out.

357
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:06,000
You're saying you're a fan of these sidechains to do other things different ways.

358
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
And I'm going, OK.

359
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
Why?

360
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,000
Demonstrate it to me.

361
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,000
What is this?

362
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,000
Equally catchy thing that you're doing.

363
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Explain.

364
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:25,000
So when you say I have to do that because when you're talking to the audience with a
lightning network, they go, what the hell is a lightning network?

365
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,000
And why was it even there?

366
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,000
It was to speed up Bitcoin, you know, but you could increase the memory size.

367
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,000
Now I don't want to do that.

368
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,000
Why?

369
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,000
You want to reduce it.

370
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,000
More side coin.

371
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Yes, stuff going on.

372
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
So explain it from there.

373
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:50,000
In theory, the lightning network would have allowed more transactions to take place
without increasing the block size.

374
00:23:50,000 --> 00:24:08,000
And one reason why people didn't want to increase the block size is because they
didn't want the like they didn't want it to be more difficult to run a full node
because the larger the block size is, the more data has to be sent, stored,
processed, etc.

375
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:13,000
In practice, though, one of the reasons why the lightning network doesn't work,
there are actually quite a few reasons.

376
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:20,000
But one is that it turns out to be very difficult for normal people to run the
lightning node because you have to sync the full L1 node.

377
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
And then you have to have this other node.

378
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,000
You have to have these liquidity.

379
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,000
L1 and L2.

380
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000
You got to explain at the levels, right?

381
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Yeah.

382
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000
L1 and L2 refers to like layer two.

383
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,000
And so the idea is that you would have something like you could have.

384
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:43,000
So like if two people want to pay each other, like maybe both of them have a
checking account at Wells Fargo.

385
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:51,000
So they if they're both on like a Wells Fargo app, hypothetically, or if they're
both on Venmo or if they're both on whatever.

386
00:24:51,000 --> 00:25:00,000
If you want to send to another customer within the thing, then it's quite easy
because at Wells Fargo, they just update the.

387
00:25:00,071 --> 00:25:05,071
So but this is like you can imagine a tiny little triangle here being drawn between
the

388
00:25:05,071 --> 00:25:09,071
person A and person B, both of them at Wells Fargo.

389
00:25:09,071 --> 00:25:15,071
Then if you wanted to pay someone and they have a bank account at Chase, but you're
at

390
00:25:15,071 --> 00:25:21,071
Wells Fargo, then Wells Fargo and Chase are going to keep track of how much money
people

391
00:25:21,071 --> 00:25:22,071
are paying to each other.

392
00:25:22,071 --> 00:25:27,071
And they use basically either a clearinghouse or they use the Federal Reserve.

393
00:25:27,071 --> 00:25:28,071
You can imagine this.

394
00:25:28,071 --> 00:25:31,071
So the triangle has all these different layers.

395
00:25:31,071 --> 00:25:37,071
The Federal Reserve is basically a bank where all of the customers are themselves
banks.

396
00:25:37,071 --> 00:25:40,071
So it's a bank of banks.

397
00:25:40,071 --> 00:25:46,071
And money has this property where it's like a big hierarchical triangle.

398
00:25:47,071 --> 00:25:51,071
So this is the idea is that layer one can only do so many transactions.

399
00:25:51,071 --> 00:25:56,071
And, you know, layer one can do quite a few transactions even with the currently
with

400
00:25:56,071 --> 00:25:59,071
the four megabyte post SegWit limit.

401
00:25:59,071 --> 00:26:04,071
You know, you can do something like two and a half thousand transactions every 10
minutes.

402
00:26:04,071 --> 00:26:07,071
And there's a drop in the bucket.

403
00:26:07,071 --> 00:26:11,071
Right. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the planetary transaction rate, which
is

404
00:26:12,071 --> 00:26:17,071
something like 10 trillion transactions per year.

405
00:26:17,071 --> 00:26:22,071
So it would be better to put them all in transactions per second.

406
00:26:22,071 --> 00:26:27,071
But it's something like, I don't know, it's in the like a hundred thousand range.

407
00:26:27,071 --> 00:26:29,071
It's a lot.

408
00:26:29,071 --> 00:26:34,071
Transactions per second. And then Visa is something like 30 to 50 thousand
transactions

409
00:26:34,071 --> 00:26:40,071
per second. And then the L1 original one megabyte BTC block size is something like
five

410
00:26:40,071 --> 00:26:43,071
to seven transactions per second.

411
00:26:43,071 --> 00:26:45,071
So that that's not enough.

412
00:26:45,071 --> 00:26:47,071
The idea was the Lightning Network would solve this problem.

413
00:26:47,071 --> 00:26:52,071
It's my view that the Lightning Network does not solve this problem at all.

414
00:26:52,071 --> 00:26:58,071
The Bitcoin Cash people, the large block people, they thought that we can increase.

415
00:26:58,071 --> 00:27:04,071
We can periodically use the hard fork to increase the L1 block size.

416
00:27:04,071 --> 00:27:08,071
A lot of people are not persuaded by this for several reasons.

417
00:27:08,071 --> 00:27:15,071
And I think. I know what some of those reasons are, but maybe it was just also bad
luck or

418
00:27:15,071 --> 00:27:23,071
bad timing. One problem is that when you increase the L1 block size, which is what
Bitcoin

419
00:27:23,071 --> 00:27:28,071
Cash did, this is mandatory data that everyone on the network has to download.

420
00:27:28,071 --> 00:27:40,071
So a lot of people felt that this was an unjust imposition on the people who were
running

421
00:27:40,071 --> 00:27:45,071
the full nodes. It increases their costs, filling up their hard drive space.

422
00:27:45,071 --> 00:27:48,071
It's not like memory has gotten more expensive.

423
00:27:48,071 --> 00:27:50,071
I mean, it's gotten so much cheaper.

424
00:27:50,071 --> 00:27:52,071
That argument didn't really fly with me.

425
00:27:52,071 --> 00:27:55,071
Bandwidth was the bottleneck resource.

426
00:27:55,071 --> 00:27:57,071
These things are very different now.

427
00:27:57,071 --> 00:28:00,071
So that was basically the block size war was really basically 10 years ago.

428
00:28:00,071 --> 00:28:03,071
It was 2015 through 2017 or so.

429
00:28:03,071 --> 00:28:09,071
And back then, not only was everything more expensive, but the ratios of things were
more

430
00:28:09,071 --> 00:28:14,071
expensive. So bandwidth was the most scarce resource of all.

431
00:28:14,071 --> 00:28:16,071
And it was the bottleneck resource.

432
00:28:16,071 --> 00:28:21,071
But actually now bandwidth has increased so much that even to process all the
transactions

433
00:28:21,071 --> 00:28:28,071
in the world, the transactions are smaller now and the bandwidth speeds have
increased.

434
00:28:28,071 --> 00:28:31,071
And now that is not even the bottleneck resource anymore.

435
00:28:31,071 --> 00:28:40,071
So actually, it's quite possible to use something that is a blockchain structure to
scale

436
00:28:40,071 --> 00:28:42,071
cryptocurrency payments.

437
00:28:42,071 --> 00:28:47,071
You know, the one thing that, you know, in that when you're talking about if you got

438
00:28:47,071 --> 00:28:53,071
a Wells Fargo account and you're inside that lightning network or that little, you
know,

439
00:28:53,071 --> 00:28:57,071
club of transactions, then you want to go to Chase.

440
00:28:57,071 --> 00:28:59,071
Well, how do you go to there?

441
00:28:59,071 --> 00:29:02,071
We got to settle on this, go to that and so on.

442
00:29:02,071 --> 00:29:04,071
And they see this and they track that.

443
00:29:04,071 --> 00:29:06,071
I go, yes, they do.

444
00:29:06,071 --> 00:29:12,071
This is something where the argument for privacy is lightning wasn't really I mean,
you know,

445
00:29:12,071 --> 00:29:15,071
you could get regulated and know your customer.

446
00:29:15,071 --> 00:29:17,071
Yeah. And I money laundering stuff.

447
00:29:17,071 --> 00:29:22,071
You're going through an approved exchange or network or node.

448
00:29:22,071 --> 00:29:23,071
Here comes the man.

449
00:29:23,071 --> 00:29:25,071
Uncle Sam wants to explain it to you.

450
00:29:25,071 --> 00:29:35,071
So the whole point was peer to peer digital cash transactions.

451
00:29:35,071 --> 00:29:37,071
Boom. Push the button.

452
00:29:37,071 --> 00:29:38,071
You got it. I don't.

453
00:29:38,071 --> 00:29:39,071
We're done.

454
00:29:39,071 --> 00:29:44,071
Well, we need to have where you have a bunch of them, you know, the capacity to do
that.

455
00:29:44,071 --> 00:29:46,071
Well, it's gotten to it.

456
00:29:46,071 --> 00:29:49,071
Well, the memory size, you know, people want to store it on,

457
00:29:49,071 --> 00:29:54,071
have a full node that they can check and no double spin, whatever, because they feel
like it.

458
00:29:54,071 --> 00:29:56,071
They want to doubt, which is a cool trait.

459
00:29:56,071 --> 00:29:59,071
You get to be the bank, your own bank, you know, whatever.

460
00:29:59,071 --> 00:30:01,071
And you have all the transactions.

461
00:30:01,071 --> 00:30:04,071
Now, this was important to us because about a decade ago,

462
00:30:04,071 --> 00:30:09,071
we had a vending machine that took Bitcoin.

463
00:30:09,071 --> 00:30:14,071
It took cash and it would give change in either one.

464
00:30:14,071 --> 00:30:20,071
You put in a Bitcoin, you get your gizmo and you can get your change in cash or you
put in cash.

465
00:30:20,071 --> 00:30:22,071
You get your change in Bitcoin.

466
00:30:22,071 --> 00:30:25,071
It was CNN was there and they did a big thing on it.

467
00:30:25,071 --> 00:30:27,071
Woo. The money left.

468
00:30:27,071 --> 00:30:28,071
You know, we have.

469
00:30:28,071 --> 00:30:31,071
So we're at Porcupine Freedom Festival.

470
00:30:31,071 --> 00:30:32,071
Derek Slopey did.

471
00:30:32,071 --> 00:30:38,071
But to do it and not get double spent on, which is like you, you buy it and then you
cancel it.

472
00:30:38,071 --> 00:30:40,071
But you get this and there's a delay.

473
00:30:40,071 --> 00:30:42,071
You know, this kind of stuff.

474
00:30:42,071 --> 00:30:44,071
There's some security issues.

475
00:30:44,071 --> 00:30:48,071
If you don't have a full node to know, you know what is and isn't.

476
00:30:48,071 --> 00:30:50,071
So on the blockchain.

477
00:30:50,071 --> 00:30:59,071
So he downloads the he made a full node out of that had a microwave cell to a tower
communication of kind.

478
00:30:59,071 --> 00:31:05,071
And we're up at Porcupine Freedom Festival using Bitcoin and cash.

479
00:31:05,071 --> 00:31:11,071
And I think I don't know if they had a credit card thing, but, you know, Bitcoin and
cash to buy,

480
00:31:11,071 --> 00:31:17,071
I don't know, camping stuff and widgets and silver and bullets and whatever the hell
else we had in there.

481
00:31:17,071 --> 00:31:19,071
But that's why you needed a full node.

482
00:31:19,071 --> 00:31:25,071
OK, so there we understand there is a use case for having a full node.

483
00:31:25,071 --> 00:31:27,071
I get it.

484
00:31:27,071 --> 00:31:30,071
But then they say, well, we'll do a full node with all these trends.

485
00:31:30,071 --> 00:31:32,071
Oh, my God.

486
00:31:32,071 --> 00:31:37,071
Well, now you get 16 terabyte, you know, memory thing for a dollar ninety five.

487
00:31:37,071 --> 00:31:40,071
I mean, I'm just really, you know, come on.

488
00:31:40,071 --> 00:31:42,071
That is not the argument anymore.

489
00:31:42,071 --> 00:31:45,071
What the argument was, it was control.

490
00:31:45,071 --> 00:31:46,071
I could see this.

491
00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:50,071
You can sit there and go, oh, no, we got to duplicate where they can make.

492
00:31:50,071 --> 00:31:51,071
Where can you make the money?

493
00:31:51,071 --> 00:31:53,071
VCs want to invest in me making money.

494
00:31:53,071 --> 00:31:55,071
I want to have me make money.

495
00:31:55,071 --> 00:31:57,071
Minor thing of water.

496
00:31:57,071 --> 00:31:58,071
How do I do that?

497
00:31:58,071 --> 00:32:00,071
Well, we keep them block size small.

498
00:32:00,071 --> 00:32:08,071
Option is to have a sidechain to have Bitcoin traded on something else that would
settle on the main chain later, if ever.

499
00:32:08,071 --> 00:32:11,071
And when whatever then.

500
00:32:11,071 --> 00:32:13,071
OK, I see you get the opportunity.

501
00:32:13,071 --> 00:32:14,071
You want to be able to do that.

502
00:32:14,071 --> 00:32:16,071
Got permission slip from Uncle Sam.

503
00:32:16,071 --> 00:32:17,071
But guess what?

504
00:32:17,071 --> 00:32:18,071
We get to see.

505
00:32:18,071 --> 00:32:20,071
OK, so this is it's not.

506
00:32:20,071 --> 00:32:29,071
It keeps getting steered away every time innovation steers it away from peer to peer
transaction.

507
00:32:30,071 --> 00:32:32,071
That's my concern.

508
00:32:32,071 --> 00:32:40,071
I think that it was the same concern that, you know, people had about the unlimited
block size L1, like the large block L1.

509
00:32:40,071 --> 00:32:50,071
People were worried that they were worried that there were the nodes would the cost
of the full node would increase forever.

510
00:32:50,071 --> 00:32:53,071
And there would be no limit to how expensive it became.

511
00:32:53,071 --> 00:32:55,071
And eventually there'd be fewer and fewer nodes.

512
00:32:55,071 --> 00:33:03,071
And then these nodes would be very easy for someone to, you know, subpoena or
threaten or something like that.

513
00:33:03,071 --> 00:33:07,071
So I think everyone was worried about the.

514
00:33:07,071 --> 00:33:14,071
What you could call centralization, which is to say making it hard for you to run
your own full node.

515
00:33:14,071 --> 00:33:21,071
And what they thought was, well, lightning will be we'll have the cheap node and
we'll have high transaction throughput.

516
00:33:21,071 --> 00:33:25,071
But it turns out the lightning node, you know, in practice is actually harder to run
than the large block node anyway.

517
00:33:25,071 --> 00:33:27,071
So that didn't even work.

518
00:33:27,071 --> 00:33:28,071
Yeah, no, it never worked right.

519
00:33:28,071 --> 00:33:32,071
You go to people that would do it at pizza restaurants or this.

520
00:33:32,071 --> 00:33:33,071
It was always some problem.

521
00:33:33,071 --> 00:33:34,071
And then SegWit.

522
00:33:34,071 --> 00:33:36,071
What was what was different about SegWit?

523
00:33:36,071 --> 00:33:37,071
Explain that.

524
00:33:37,071 --> 00:33:46,071
SegWit was an upgrade to Bitcoin that it happened to also be a mandatory increase in
the block size from one megabyte to four megabytes.

525
00:33:46,071 --> 00:33:48,071
So it's kind of ironic that way.

526
00:33:48,071 --> 00:33:56,071
It happened around during the block size war as a part of a kind of compromise says,
well, this is also a block size increase.

527
00:33:56,071 --> 00:34:00,071
But the primary purpose of SegWit was to make it.

528
00:34:00,071 --> 00:34:08,071
So it was basically to support the lightning network by removing this thing,
transaction viability, which was going to interfere with the lightning network.

529
00:34:08,071 --> 00:34:13,071
And so, yeah, we did this upgrade and it was very contentious.

530
00:34:13,071 --> 00:34:18,071
And there's not really that much more to say about it.

531
00:34:18,071 --> 00:34:21,071
If we did this one upgrade, then we did this taproot upgrade.

532
00:34:21,071 --> 00:34:23,071
But there have been very few upgrades since.

533
00:34:23,071 --> 00:34:31,071
So Bitcoin used to do more of this upgrade called the soft fork we used to do on
average to a year.

534
00:34:31,071 --> 00:34:33,071
It didn't happen like regularly like that.

535
00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:37,071
But we did 14, I think, in the first seven years of Bitcoin.

536
00:34:37,071 --> 00:34:41,071
And then in the last seven years, we've only done SegWit and taproot.

537
00:34:41,071 --> 00:34:45,071
So it's kind of like a pulling up the ladder.

538
00:34:45,071 --> 00:34:48,071
You climb up the ladder and get to the next level.

539
00:34:48,071 --> 00:34:50,071
Then you can pull the ladder up behind you.

540
00:34:50,071 --> 00:34:53,071
And we haven't had any since then.

541
00:34:53,071 --> 00:34:54,071
Well, tell me.

542
00:34:54,071 --> 00:34:57,071
OK, now I want to get on to some of the other stuff.

543
00:34:57,071 --> 00:34:59,071
I want to take you know, we take our time.

544
00:34:59,071 --> 00:35:04,071
But the Bitcoin cash, when it came, we're just going to increase the size.

545
00:35:04,071 --> 00:35:05,071
Right.

546
00:35:05,071 --> 00:35:08,071
So that we can have more transactions.

547
00:35:08,071 --> 00:35:14,071
We have much faster than when Bitcoin started, much faster processing.

548
00:35:14,071 --> 00:35:17,071
We have much larger storage.

549
00:35:17,071 --> 00:35:19,071
We have all these other arguments.

550
00:35:19,071 --> 00:35:20,071
It'll crash.

551
00:35:20,071 --> 00:35:21,071
It will never be out.

552
00:35:21,071 --> 00:35:22,071
Shut up.

553
00:35:22,071 --> 00:35:24,071
You know, I don't want to talk about that.

554
00:35:24,071 --> 00:35:25,071
It just pisses me off.

555
00:35:25,071 --> 00:35:31,071
So, of course, we have, you know, advances in technology and memory storage and
processing and so on.

556
00:35:31,071 --> 00:35:35,071
So increase the size of the block.

557
00:35:35,071 --> 00:35:37,071
Well, no, no, no.

558
00:35:37,071 --> 00:35:39,071
Because something, you know, whatever.

559
00:35:39,071 --> 00:35:41,071
It didn't hold water with me.

560
00:35:41,071 --> 00:35:45,071
But Bitcoin cash, you know, it takes off.

561
00:35:45,071 --> 00:35:46,071
It doesn't take off.

562
00:35:46,071 --> 00:35:47,071
It's in use.

563
00:35:47,071 --> 00:35:51,071
I probably use it more than anything else just because it freaking works.

564
00:35:51,071 --> 00:35:53,071
You know, that cost me a gazillion dollars.

565
00:35:53,071 --> 00:35:55,071
You know, it it's fast.

566
00:35:55,071 --> 00:35:58,071
It cost me a nickel or something.

567
00:35:58,071 --> 00:36:00,071
I mean, you know, cool.

568
00:36:00,071 --> 00:36:01,071
That's all I wanted.

569
00:36:01,071 --> 00:36:02,071
Digital cash between.

570
00:36:03,071 --> 00:36:06,071
Now, I got others, but, you know, I just wanted something that works.

571
00:36:06,071 --> 00:36:10,071
I didn't have to worry about, you know, transaction fees kicking my ass.

572
00:36:10,071 --> 00:36:12,071
When you needed it the most.

573
00:36:12,071 --> 00:36:15,071
It was always with, man, I need to do some trading.

574
00:36:15,071 --> 00:36:16,071
Woo!

575
00:36:16,071 --> 00:36:17,071
Not today.

576
00:36:17,071 --> 00:36:20,071
I mean, you know, so you miss out on a lot of opportunities.

577
00:36:20,071 --> 00:36:22,071
So I'm going, all right.

578
00:36:22,071 --> 00:36:25,071
How successful was Bitcoin cash?

579
00:36:25,071 --> 00:36:26,071
Was it successful?

580
00:36:26,071 --> 00:36:33,071
And based success on its utility, its peer-to-peer ability, has it gone bad?

581
00:36:33,071 --> 00:36:34,071
Is it still useful?

582
00:36:34,071 --> 00:36:36,071
Are there other privacy coins that are coming?

583
00:36:36,071 --> 00:36:38,071
We'll get into privacy in a second here.

584
00:36:38,071 --> 00:36:46,071
But tell me what the experience was in the community from both sides on the fork
with Bitcoin cash.

585
00:36:46,071 --> 00:36:50,071
Yeah, I was never a supporter of Bitcoin cash per se,

586
00:36:50,071 --> 00:36:54,071
although I could recognize at the time that they were right about a lot of things.

587
00:36:54,071 --> 00:36:58,071
So first of all, they were right that if you just had more block space, that would
be useful,

588
00:36:58,071 --> 00:37:02,071
and that would solve a lot of problems, and that would help scale the network,

589
00:37:02,071 --> 00:37:08,071
and that would help people make real transactions on the network that pay a real
mining fee.

590
00:37:08,071 --> 00:37:11,071
So they were right about all that.

591
00:37:11,071 --> 00:37:15,071
Bitcoin cash was right about the problem of developer capture.

592
00:37:15,071 --> 00:37:19,071
Some of the problems with Bitcoin cash were that they didn't really solve those
problems.

593
00:37:19,071 --> 00:37:27,071
So even though Bitcoin cash was probably right that if you only had the one megabyte
of block space and nothing else,

594
00:37:27,071 --> 00:37:29,071
then that wouldn't work.

595
00:37:29,071 --> 00:37:33,071
But all they did was change that one megabyte to eight,

596
00:37:33,071 --> 00:37:37,071
and then they knew full well that they'd have to change that eight to something else
later.

597
00:37:37,071 --> 00:37:45,071
So in order to change it from one to eight, they used this technique, the hard fork,

598
00:37:45,071 --> 00:37:48,071
which is a very dangerous technique that I'm about to use.

599
00:37:48,071 --> 00:37:55,071
But I make no pretense about how it's going to be a very hard –

600
00:37:55,071 --> 00:37:59,071
when you hard fork, you create a whole new asset, and you create a whole new
community,

601
00:37:59,071 --> 00:38:02,071
and you create a whole new rivalrous system.

602
00:38:02,071 --> 00:38:06,071
So anyway, Bitcoin cash, they were right about a lot of things.

603
00:38:06,071 --> 00:38:13,071
Ultimately though, I think their idea wasn't very good because the idea was just one
megabyte to eight megabytes,

604
00:38:13,071 --> 00:38:20,071
and that eight megabytes is not enough to scale to the whole planet.

605
00:38:20,071 --> 00:38:23,071
There's no reason it can't go to 100.

606
00:38:23,071 --> 00:38:27,071
Right, but then why not just do one to 100 back then?

607
00:38:27,071 --> 00:38:30,071
And then they kind of said like as we fill up, we'll just keep changing it.

608
00:38:30,071 --> 00:38:37,071
But now you've got a person in the mix who is saying I'm going to change it at this
point and this other point.

609
00:38:37,071 --> 00:38:42,071
So these were flaws in the idea, I think.

610
00:38:42,071 --> 00:38:50,071
And this is partly – so of course, Bitcoin cash is a success in that it's still very
highly ranked on coin market cap.

611
00:38:50,071 --> 00:38:52,071
It's worth billions of dollars.

612
00:38:52,071 --> 00:38:58,071
But I think it's – I think money has very strong network effects,

613
00:38:58,071 --> 00:39:06,071
and so it's much more comfortable to be number one on the leaderboard than it is to
be like number – like 155 or something.

614
00:39:07,071 --> 00:39:17,071
Because in intense arena of competition, it will always be very hard for the smaller
people to always be trying to die out.

615
00:39:17,071 --> 00:39:25,071
It's a little bit like language where a lot of – I think something like 40 or 50
languages die out every 10 years or something,

616
00:39:25,071 --> 00:39:28,071
and English becomes more and more dominant.

617
00:39:28,071 --> 00:39:31,071
The rich get richer with network effects.

618
00:39:32,071 --> 00:39:37,071
So eventually something becomes a standard like the QWERTY keyboard.

619
00:39:37,071 --> 00:39:42,071
I think that's very difficult to survive if you are not number one.

620
00:39:42,071 --> 00:39:46,071
So I think it's hard for Bitcoin cash to not be number one.

621
00:39:46,071 --> 00:39:52,071
Now, of course, only one coin can be number one, and it's a very high standard just
to say it's all or nothing.

622
00:39:52,071 --> 00:39:55,071
You know, this is – I want to dwell on that a little bit.

623
00:39:55,071 --> 00:39:58,071
Number one for what?

624
00:39:58,071 --> 00:40:02,071
You know, number one in transactions, number one in value, number one in –

625
00:40:02,071 --> 00:40:08,071
so my thing is I don't want to be with number one that's the most surveilled, most –

626
00:40:08,071 --> 00:40:14,071
I remember when Bitcoin really started taking off, and I guess it's 13, 14, 15,
around in there,

627
00:40:14,071 --> 00:40:21,071
and I have a guy, he goes, Ernie, I've got to come on your show, and he had a
company called Dark Data Services,

628
00:40:21,071 --> 00:40:27,071
and he says, you know, I'm Liberty Community guy, you know, super geek IT, whatever,

629
00:40:27,071 --> 00:40:39,071
and my job, my company works for corporations and governments tracking Bitcoin
transactions down to the device.

630
00:40:39,071 --> 00:40:44,071
I see you, and I want to make sure the Liberty Community knows if they don't do it
right,

631
00:40:44,071 --> 00:40:47,071
don't be thinking you're private out there doing it.

632
00:40:47,071 --> 00:40:49,071
Well, I see everything.

633
00:40:49,071 --> 00:40:51,071
You guys think you're private, and you're not.

634
00:40:51,071 --> 00:40:53,071
And I'm going, okay, there's that.

635
00:40:53,071 --> 00:40:55,071
You know, let's talk about that.

636
00:40:55,071 --> 00:40:59,071
So then you have all this – we'll do this.

637
00:40:59,071 --> 00:41:00,071
Be number one.

638
00:41:00,071 --> 00:41:01,071
Number one in what?

639
00:41:01,071 --> 00:41:04,071
GoldmanSucks.gov coin approval?

640
00:41:04,071 --> 00:41:08,071
So I'm doing – you know, we're going to be having privacy coins.

641
00:41:08,071 --> 00:41:11,071
We're kind of focused on Xano right now for a little bit.

642
00:41:11,071 --> 00:41:14,071
We've got, you know, a portal whole network thing that we're interested in.

643
00:41:14,071 --> 00:41:19,071
We get a bunch of Dogecoin just to be funny and screw them when we go to Mars.

644
00:41:19,071 --> 00:41:23,071
I mean, you know, it's just whatever reason you get to have whatever.

645
00:41:23,071 --> 00:41:28,071
Well, some of these you get at, you know, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, you
know, 3 cents, 6 cents,

646
00:41:28,071 --> 00:41:31,071
and all it has to do, and I double my money.

647
00:41:31,071 --> 00:41:33,071
Well, there's always a pump and dump thing out there.

648
00:41:33,071 --> 00:41:37,071
Well, if we do this, we'll get some – all we need is a little bit of interest for a
little bit of time,

649
00:41:37,071 --> 00:41:39,071
and boom, made a bunch of money.

650
00:41:39,071 --> 00:41:41,071
I see that all the time.

651
00:41:41,071 --> 00:41:43,071
You're going, OK, what is this?

652
00:41:43,071 --> 00:41:45,071
What wall is your ladder on?

653
00:41:45,071 --> 00:41:50,071
It doesn't matter how great your ladder or how tall your ladder is if it's on the
wrong wall.

654
00:41:50,071 --> 00:41:52,071
So I need to know what wall you're on.

655
00:41:52,071 --> 00:41:54,071
What are you offering?

656
00:41:54,071 --> 00:41:55,071
What are you competing with?

657
00:41:55,071 --> 00:41:56,071
What is it?

658
00:41:56,071 --> 00:42:01,071
Now, you're going, because it's number one, we're going to do BTC.

659
00:42:01,071 --> 00:42:04,071
We're going to do Bitcoin, classic Bitcoin, whatever the heck you call it.

660
00:42:04,071 --> 00:42:06,071
Bitcoin, BTC.

661
00:42:06,071 --> 00:42:09,071
We're going to take and use that network effect of,

662
00:42:09,071 --> 00:42:17,071
everybody's got hard fork because if you have Bitcoin, all of a sudden now you also
got eCash.

663
00:42:17,071 --> 00:42:20,071
So you're going, all right, let's do that.

664
00:42:20,071 --> 00:42:23,071
Now, all those – what are you bitching about?

665
00:42:23,071 --> 00:42:24,071
You don't like it?

666
00:42:24,071 --> 00:42:28,071
Sell what we forked off and buy more of that and shut up.

667
00:42:28,071 --> 00:42:30,071
I mean, what do you care?

668
00:42:30,071 --> 00:42:33,071
So this is – but that's the argument that's always done,

669
00:42:33,071 --> 00:42:36,071
and then they whine, bitch, and moan that you're diluting something.

670
00:42:36,071 --> 00:42:38,071
They don't like it for whatever reason.

671
00:42:39,071 --> 00:42:40,071
Let me finish this.

672
00:42:40,071 --> 00:42:47,071
This is a question that you're doing this hard fork from that because you say the
network effect.

673
00:42:47,071 --> 00:42:53,071
It has so much out there, and everybody would have it, and all of a sudden, boom,
they got it in their wallets.

674
00:42:53,071 --> 00:42:59,071
And then you got to get it on the exchanges, and they want to do it, and we'll see
about that.

675
00:42:59,071 --> 00:43:04,071
But doing this provides what benefit to me?

676
00:43:04,071 --> 00:43:06,071
Am I getting more privacy?

677
00:43:06,071 --> 00:43:13,071
Am I getting less KYC and international money laundering examination?

678
00:43:13,071 --> 00:43:15,071
Do I have a sidechain that's a bank?

679
00:43:15,071 --> 00:43:17,071
Do I have to totally agree?

680
00:43:17,071 --> 00:43:18,071
Do they know who I am?

681
00:43:18,071 --> 00:43:20,071
Do I have to have a phone number?

682
00:43:20,071 --> 00:43:22,071
Do I have to have an email?

683
00:43:22,071 --> 00:43:24,071
Do I have to – you see my point?

684
00:43:24,071 --> 00:43:25,071
I do.

685
00:43:25,071 --> 00:43:26,071
Why do it?

686
00:43:26,071 --> 00:43:27,071
Why on BTC?

687
00:43:27,071 --> 00:43:29,071
Why fork?

688
00:43:29,071 --> 00:43:37,071
What is the benefit to me of privacy, libertarian, anarchist, hardcore, voluntarist,
make peer-to-peer digital cash

689
00:43:37,071 --> 00:43:40,071
that has been the promise from the freaking beginning?

690
00:43:40,071 --> 00:43:43,071
I've interviewed all the guys many times.

691
00:43:43,071 --> 00:43:47,071
Andreas Antonopoulos, Vitalik, Roger, Eric Voorhees.

692
00:43:47,071 --> 00:43:48,071
You know what I mean?

693
00:43:48,071 --> 00:43:50,071
On and on and on and on and on.

694
00:43:50,071 --> 00:43:51,071
I get it.

695
00:43:51,071 --> 00:43:55,071
Now, the thing is is it breaks down into incentives.

696
00:43:55,071 --> 00:44:00,071
You know, the Bitcoin maximalist is because we're maximalists because we're
maximalists

697
00:44:00,071 --> 00:44:04,071
and I'm getting paid to be a maximalist and my value goes up and we're all going to
get rich

698
00:44:04,071 --> 00:44:06,071
as opposed to being free.

699
00:44:06,071 --> 00:44:08,071
I'm going, I want the peer-to-peer cash.

700
00:44:08,071 --> 00:44:09,071
It works.

701
00:44:09,071 --> 00:44:10,071
Boom.

702
00:44:10,071 --> 00:44:11,071
Done.

703
00:44:11,071 --> 00:44:17,071
And you're forking off of a Bitcoin that's already been, you know, captured, you
know, whatever my opinion.

704
00:44:17,071 --> 00:44:24,071
So, with that perspective, I need you to explain to me what you're forking, why,

705
00:44:24,071 --> 00:44:30,071
what the different features are, how it would work, and then I got more questions.

706
00:44:30,071 --> 00:44:31,071
Go.

707
00:44:31,071 --> 00:44:32,071
All right.

708
00:44:32,071 --> 00:44:33,071
Just that.

709
00:44:33,071 --> 00:44:34,071
No, I'm just kidding.

710
00:44:34,071 --> 00:44:36,071
So, these are really great questions.

711
00:44:36,071 --> 00:44:39,071
So, it's hard to know what order to answer them all.

712
00:44:39,071 --> 00:44:44,071
I'm just going to try to shotgun them all, but it's like, okay, why BTC?

713
00:44:44,071 --> 00:44:49,071
Why stick with BTC after it's been captured as you put it?

714
00:44:49,071 --> 00:44:54,071
I think, you know, there's a big difference between like some of the loud
personalities

715
00:44:54,071 --> 00:44:57,071
and then even the BTC owner.

716
00:44:57,071 --> 00:45:01,071
So, I think the set of owners is actually a huge number of people.

717
00:45:01,071 --> 00:45:07,071
I see the different cryptocurrencies as kind of like they contain within them a, not
only

718
00:45:07,071 --> 00:45:14,071
do you have a selfish kind of capitalist asset that you own, but there's also a kind
of common

719
00:45:14,071 --> 00:45:17,071
project, like they have a conception of the public good.

720
00:45:17,071 --> 00:45:21,071
They're kind of like ideologies, so to speak, and there's a little bit of like a
selfless,

721
00:45:21,071 --> 00:45:25,071
like you think the world would be a better place if we adopted this.

722
00:45:25,071 --> 00:45:30,071
And I think that most people, even if they disagree with BTC or if they don't
totally

723
00:45:30,071 --> 00:45:35,071
understand every decision, a lot of people have just decided to just hold their nose

724
00:45:35,071 --> 00:45:41,071
and kind of like stick with BTC because, you know, life is easier in a big herd, you
know,

725
00:45:41,071 --> 00:45:42,071
strength in numbers.

726
00:45:42,071 --> 00:45:45,071
That was an original Bitcoin motto.

727
00:45:45,071 --> 00:45:51,071
With respect to cash, I think this also ties in with that, you know, whether or not
something

728
00:45:51,071 --> 00:45:56,071
is cash does depend slightly on how recognizable it is.

729
00:45:56,071 --> 00:46:03,071
So, if you were to travel to Japan and you had, you know, euro bills and coins and
you

730
00:46:03,071 --> 00:46:09,071
tried to pay with, you know, euro coins in a Japanese shop, I'm not sure that would
work.

731
00:46:09,071 --> 00:46:15,071
So, I think part of the definition of cash is whether or not people recognize it.

732
00:46:15,071 --> 00:46:19,071
And so I certainly applaud all the different people who have made a new coin.

733
00:46:19,071 --> 00:46:21,071
Like, I applaud the Monero people.

734
00:46:21,071 --> 00:46:23,071
I applaud Bitcoin Cash.

735
00:46:23,071 --> 00:46:27,071
I applaud all these, you know, Dash and all these other people who have made a
different

736
00:46:27,071 --> 00:46:29,071
coin.

737
00:46:29,071 --> 00:46:32,071
And I think all of that's great.

738
00:46:33,071 --> 00:46:37,071
And, you know, dissent is very admirable.

739
00:46:37,071 --> 00:46:39,071
And so is research and development.

740
00:46:39,071 --> 00:46:44,071
And so is, you know, trying out new experiments.

741
00:46:44,071 --> 00:46:46,071
These are all very good things.

742
00:46:46,071 --> 00:46:52,071
My problem or my concern is that when you have like it's kind of like splitting the
vote

743
00:46:52,071 --> 00:46:59,071
in a democracy, like when you have all these different altcoins, that reduces the
threat

744
00:46:59,071 --> 00:47:05,071
that each individual one of them poses to, for example, Bitcoin, the number one
coin.

745
00:47:05,071 --> 00:47:09,071
But it also reduces the threat that they pose to the U.S. dollar.

746
00:47:09,071 --> 00:47:18,071
Because the network effect is so strong, because the stigma for starting a new coin
is so

747
00:47:18,071 --> 00:47:26,071
intense, it's very hard to imagine like these small coins actually making a dent in
like

748
00:47:26,071 --> 00:47:29,071
actually causing a big revolution that we'd all like to have.

749
00:47:29,071 --> 00:47:33,071
Those of us who are in Bitcoin from the early days.

750
00:47:33,071 --> 00:47:42,071
So now as to the features, this project is trying to give everyone what they want.

751
00:47:42,071 --> 00:47:44,071
Now, of course, it's not going to succeed.

752
00:47:44,071 --> 00:47:50,071
But what it's going to do, the L1, you know, the original layer one is going to be
very

753
00:47:50,071 --> 00:47:54,071
similar to Bitcoin Core, except with the smaller block size.

754
00:47:54,071 --> 00:47:56,071
So this would be the small block.

755
00:47:56,071 --> 00:47:58,071
OK, why?

756
00:47:58,071 --> 00:48:04,071
Well, one reason is there's two reasons, two categories of reason, which is the
smaller

757
00:48:04,071 --> 00:48:09,071
block size actually is easier for it makes it easier to sync, download and
synchronize

758
00:48:09,071 --> 00:48:14,071
the full node, and it makes it easier to hide the physical location of the full
node.

759
00:48:14,071 --> 00:48:19,071
So there's a privacy benefit to that.

760
00:48:19,071 --> 00:48:25,071
In my conception of all how this works, the layer twos are optional.

761
00:48:25,071 --> 00:48:29,071
They're kind of like optional plugins, but all of them require the L1.

762
00:48:29,071 --> 00:48:31,071
So the L1 is like a mandatory piece.

763
00:48:31,071 --> 00:48:32,071
The L2s are optional.

764
00:48:32,071 --> 00:48:39,071
So, of course, you would want to lean on the L2s to do the hard work since they are
optional.

765
00:48:39,071 --> 00:48:40,071
You take them or leave them.

766
00:48:40,071 --> 00:48:44,071
But then the mandatory part you would want to ease up on.

767
00:48:45,071 --> 00:48:51,071
The second type of reason is that it's good branding, I think, actually, because I
kind

768
00:48:51,071 --> 00:48:55,071
of got the idea from Bitcoin SV where it was Bitcoin Cash was created and then
Bitcoin

769
00:48:55,071 --> 00:48:59,071
SV was like, well, actually, we're the real large blocker chain because we have even
larger

770
00:48:59,071 --> 00:49:02,071
blocks and then this kind of trap Bitcoin Cash in the middle.

771
00:49:02,071 --> 00:49:04,071
So I thought, well, I could do the same thing.

772
00:49:04,071 --> 00:49:11,071
I kind of want to push people towards the L2s and off of L1 because, again, if you
imagine

773
00:49:11,071 --> 00:49:19,071
what is the quantity of how many transactions is done between people at Wells Fargo
versus

774
00:49:19,071 --> 00:49:23,071
what is the quantity of transactions done between from Wells Fargo to Bank of
America?

775
00:49:23,071 --> 00:49:26,071
They just settle up at the end of the day with like one transaction per day.

776
00:49:26,071 --> 00:49:33,071
But there must be many hundreds of thousands transactions within just within the
same bank.

777
00:49:33,071 --> 00:49:41,071
So if most of the transactions are on the L2s, as I envision, the only the when you

778
00:49:41,071 --> 00:49:46,071
only go into the L1 when you want to save for retirement or you want to travel among

779
00:49:46,071 --> 00:49:47,071
the different L2s.

780
00:49:47,071 --> 00:49:52,071
So it's kind of like when you go to the airport and you go to the currency exchange.

781
00:49:52,071 --> 00:49:56,071
So most transactions are not a currency exchange.

782
00:49:56,071 --> 00:49:58,071
Most of them are within the currency.

783
00:49:58,071 --> 00:50:01,071
They start in the United States and they.

784
00:50:02,349 --> 00:50:06,469
They you know, the merchant is in the US and the purchasers in the US.

785
00:50:08,149 --> 00:50:18,869
So I just did I took, you know, you're frequently asked or why and I just scrolled
it people can pause the video and they can read this if they don't have access.

786
00:50:18,909 --> 00:50:19,589
Yeah, sure.

787
00:50:20,589 --> 00:50:27,909
Yes, the hard fork is conceived seen as a very controversial decision, even though
it really shouldn't be because it's just giving everyone free money.

788
00:50:28,429 --> 00:50:32,109
Again, this is partly because I think there's a big difference between the owners.

789
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:37,709
There's there's a silent majority, which is the Bitcoin owner.

790
00:50:37,749 --> 00:50:41,069
And you know, the owners are the ones who are going to decide what they're going to
do with the money.

791
00:50:41,069 --> 00:50:43,229
And they're the ones who are going to decide what they're going to do with it.

792
00:50:43,269 --> 00:50:46,189
And you know, there's a big difference between the owners.

793
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:51,469
There's a silent majority, which is the Bitcoin owner.

794
00:50:51,509 --> 00:50:56,789
And these are again, if these people care about their privacy, like if they really
care about their privacy, they probably don't have like a podcast.

795
00:50:56,789 --> 00:50:59,509
You know what I mean? They probably their face probably isn't on camera.

796
00:50:59,509 --> 00:51:00,829
Like they don't really have a voice.

797
00:51:00,989 --> 00:51:03,829
You know, the real the real Bitcoin is never seen.

798
00:51:05,029 --> 00:51:07,109
And you have a big difference between these people.

799
00:51:07,229 --> 00:51:10,949
And then there's kind of like the loud people making a career out of Bitcoin.

800
00:51:10,989 --> 00:51:16,269
You know, they've always got to have a take or an opinion because they they are
their media personality.

801
00:51:16,749 --> 00:51:19,509
So actually, I think there's a little bit of a conflict of interest there.

802
00:51:19,549 --> 00:51:24,029
But yeah, the hard fork is really good for the Bitcoin owner, who I think is the
silent majority.

803
00:51:24,629 --> 00:51:32,389
And it's bad for all the visible minority of people who are going to complain on
Twitter, because if you really, really care about privacy, you don't even like have
a Twitter, right?

804
00:51:32,389 --> 00:51:35,429
Or you if you do, you don't you don't tell anyone that you're interested in Bitcoin.

805
00:51:36,029 --> 00:51:37,669
So no one knows that any of this stuff.

806
00:51:37,669 --> 00:51:47,469
So I think there's actually a very big conflict of interest that is underexplored
between the people who own Bitcoin and then the people who make a lot of, you know,
people.

807
00:51:47,469 --> 00:51:57,269
You know, let me tell you what's underexplored, in my opinion, is what the promise
was from the beginning, because I'm sure you remember, you know, when crypto comes
on, you become aware.

808
00:51:57,629 --> 00:52:01,549
This is kind of cool. You know, this could be it was fast.

809
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:04,869
Cheap transactions.

810
00:52:05,629 --> 00:52:12,389
Okay. Anonymity between people, peer to peer.

811
00:52:13,189 --> 00:52:31,269
Cool. What we were doing is right after the revolution in the 08 campaign in 09, we
were pushing silver dime cards, you know, educate people on silver and that, you
know, pre 64 and earlier dimes were 90% silver.

812
00:52:31,309 --> 00:52:32,989
They call it junk silver, whatever it was silver.

813
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:37,829
So we're going, you put them in a card, laminate it, has a little instruction on the
back.

814
00:52:38,029 --> 00:52:40,509
It's like a business card or a meme or whatever.

815
00:52:40,829 --> 00:52:46,029
You're not throwing it away because it was getting up to, you know, a dime's worth
three, four dollars at the time.

816
00:52:46,509 --> 00:52:48,309
So I'm just going now it's gazillion.

817
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:57,749
But, you know, I'm going, this is what we need is transactable peer to peer, you
know, but it doesn't do you any good online, you know.

818
00:52:57,989 --> 00:53:01,269
So then they start coming up with, well, we're going to have gold and silver tokens.

819
00:53:01,749 --> 00:53:07,069
Cool. You know, but I still got the third party risk of it's I've seen stuff seized
all the time.

820
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:10,909
So, you know, this is you get old enough and I can give you a story.

821
00:53:11,189 --> 00:53:20,549
So I'm going, OK, this peer to peer transaction part, that is what concerns me.

822
00:53:20,869 --> 00:53:23,029
That is the feature I'm looking for.

823
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:30,309
When I have, you know, a lot of the guys I'm rattle off a bunch of big names, but
I'm I'm talking to him, ask how is it?

824
00:53:30,469 --> 00:53:31,669
Well, you had this patch.

825
00:53:31,829 --> 00:53:32,949
You had this problem.

826
00:53:32,949 --> 00:53:34,429
You had somebody change that.

827
00:53:34,429 --> 00:53:35,429
How did that get changed?

828
00:53:36,349 --> 00:53:37,229
Somebody pushed a button.

829
00:53:37,229 --> 00:53:38,389
AI is pushing buttons.

830
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:39,429
Who's pushing the button?

831
00:53:39,629 --> 00:53:40,709
Oh, it's the developers.

832
00:53:40,949 --> 00:53:41,629
Developers?

833
00:53:41,789 --> 00:53:42,589
Well, who are they?

834
00:53:42,749 --> 00:53:43,629
How is that done?

835
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:46,029
How do you get it adopted?

836
00:53:46,029 --> 00:53:49,589
How does it get, you know, OK, we made this change and we agree.

837
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:50,189
Who's we?

838
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:52,229
Oh, the miners and the owners.

839
00:53:52,669 --> 00:53:54,349
OK, so we got a 51 percent.

840
00:53:54,629 --> 00:53:56,629
Well, that makes it vulnerable to attack.

841
00:53:56,869 --> 00:54:00,109
Yeah, but, you know, we are yada, yada, yada, back and forth, back and forth.

842
00:54:00,749 --> 00:54:05,349
So I'm going, OK, what I'm looking for is the truth.

843
00:54:05,789 --> 00:54:08,349
Well, then I had to learn a new thing.

844
00:54:08,389 --> 00:54:14,509
Once I start finding out it's not as anonymous as you say, well, it's pseudo
anonymous.

845
00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:17,469
So then I got to look up the word pseudo in this context.

846
00:54:17,469 --> 00:54:18,269
What the hell does that mean?

847
00:54:18,389 --> 00:54:19,549
It means not.

848
00:54:20,189 --> 00:54:21,149
It's not a not.

849
00:54:21,149 --> 00:54:23,549
I'm going, you lying sacks of shit.

850
00:54:23,749 --> 00:54:26,349
Don't sit there and look me in the face and lie to me.

851
00:54:26,749 --> 00:54:30,669
You know, it is not anonymous unless you know how to use it.

852
00:54:30,869 --> 00:54:33,989
OK, or how it's being used or other options.

853
00:54:34,189 --> 00:54:35,029
You screw it.

854
00:54:35,269 --> 00:54:37,229
Just go to privacy coins.

855
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:39,029
You know, we have Xano.

856
00:54:39,029 --> 00:54:39,989
You get Monero.

857
00:54:39,989 --> 00:54:42,509
You get, you know, are, you know, pirate chain.

858
00:54:42,509 --> 00:54:44,869
You get well, at least at a freaking attempt.

859
00:54:45,069 --> 00:54:47,069
OK, so I'm going, all right.

860
00:54:47,269 --> 00:54:52,109
So we got that anonymous thing out over there and we're going to be on the
exchanges.

861
00:54:52,109 --> 00:54:52,869
Yeah, that's a ticket.

862
00:54:53,069 --> 00:54:56,389
And we get a permission slip from the man.

863
00:54:56,589 --> 00:54:58,349
Oh, we got JD Vance.

864
00:54:58,549 --> 00:55:00,229
I was at Vegas Bitcoin.

865
00:55:00,229 --> 00:55:03,749
You know, I went the invitation of Ross and Lynn Oprich, you know, wanted to go.

866
00:55:03,749 --> 00:55:05,509
But I knew a lot of these people.

867
00:55:05,509 --> 00:55:06,669
A lot of them are good friends.

868
00:55:06,669 --> 00:55:08,029
Right off a bunch of maxis.

869
00:55:08,229 --> 00:55:09,989
You know, I know I'm Ernie.

870
00:55:09,989 --> 00:55:11,309
We got to get you on board, man.

871
00:55:11,469 --> 00:55:12,149
Get over here.

872
00:55:12,349 --> 00:55:13,269
The water's fine.

873
00:55:13,469 --> 00:55:15,829
You know, look, JD's up on the stage.

874
00:55:15,869 --> 00:55:18,389
Trump administration, crypto.

875
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:20,829
We're all going to get rich.

876
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:24,309
Yeah, and surveilled.

877
00:55:24,509 --> 00:55:28,869
So I'm going, this is you got your ladder on the wrong wall.

878
00:55:29,069 --> 00:55:31,029
So I'm going, all right.

879
00:55:31,229 --> 00:55:33,069
Give me a solution.

880
00:55:33,269 --> 00:55:39,749
So when you do this, eCash forks off of wherever the hell I don't know how it's

881
00:55:39,949 --> 00:55:43,589
going to maintain privacy up there going.

882
00:55:43,789 --> 00:55:45,389
I have no idea.

883
00:55:45,629 --> 00:55:46,949
But we have.

884
00:55:47,149 --> 00:55:47,589
Yes.

885
00:55:47,789 --> 00:55:51,749
So you brought up a lot of things, which is great.

886
00:55:51,949 --> 00:55:54,709
But so the problem of developer capture,

887
00:55:54,909 --> 00:55:59,229
that's part of what I invented this thing, Drivechain to solve, because it says if

888
00:55:59,429 --> 00:56:03,189
if the developers of your coin make a mistake, you can just escape to a

889
00:56:03,389 --> 00:56:06,509
different L2 without consulting them.

890
00:56:06,709 --> 00:56:08,429
So the idea is that developers compete

891
00:56:08,629 --> 00:56:12,269
and you and the user wins and they take advantage of this.

892
00:56:12,429 --> 00:56:13,709
So

893
00:56:13,909 --> 00:56:16,709
this includes if they if you want to go on a different block size,

894
00:56:16,709 --> 00:56:20,509
so if they set the block size too high or too low, all these different L2 chains can

895
00:56:20,709 --> 00:56:23,949
have different block size, they also can have different features.

896
00:56:24,149 --> 00:56:27,309
So one of the L2 chains that we have.

897
00:56:27,509 --> 00:56:33,989
And it's in our test software now is a privacy L2 that is basically based on Z

898
00:56:34,189 --> 00:56:38,549
cash, and so you get a Z address that's reusable and which hides the sender,

899
00:56:38,749 --> 00:56:40,669
the receiver and the amount.

900
00:56:41,469 --> 00:56:46,029
And in that way, it has very good privacy.

901
00:56:46,229 --> 00:56:49,829
Even when Bitcoin was itself invented, it had you know, it was a big advance

902
00:56:50,029 --> 00:56:53,749
in privacy because previously people had to have, you know, email, phone,

903
00:56:53,949 --> 00:56:57,069
you had to have an account, you had to log into the server.

904
00:56:57,269 --> 00:56:59,429
And so even when Bitcoin was it wasn't as

905
00:56:59,429 --> 00:57:03,189
private as people thought in the beginning, but it was still give it a try.

906
00:57:03,189 --> 00:57:05,509
And then it opened the door to these other privacy coins.

907
00:57:05,709 --> 00:57:07,309
And then one of them.

908
00:57:07,469 --> 00:57:12,149
It was Zcash, did all this research into Zk

909
00:57:12,349 --> 00:57:15,829
zero knowledge proofs and.

910
00:57:16,029 --> 00:57:21,749
And so we borrowed that for one of the L2s that we have in our test network.

911
00:57:21,949 --> 00:57:26,389
So those people who want a private network can use that one.

912
00:57:26,589 --> 00:57:28,709
And then they get the same.

913
00:57:28,909 --> 00:57:31,189
Since it's the same coin,

914
00:57:31,389 --> 00:57:35,469
they can then withdraw it or send it to a different L2 just with the software,

915
00:57:35,469 --> 00:57:37,749
without any, you know, without any humans.

916
00:57:37,949 --> 00:57:40,669
So that's also private in a way.

917
00:57:40,869 --> 00:57:45,389
In a way, see, I need I need to for you to focus on eCash.

918
00:57:45,589 --> 00:57:49,229
Now you do the fork.

919
00:57:49,429 --> 00:57:52,589
And I all of a sudden I got, you know, the wallet.

920
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:54,269
A lot of times it's a good idea.

921
00:57:54,469 --> 00:57:55,749
I know

922
00:57:57,989 --> 00:58:03,509
you know, air bits guys that are now what edge, you know, and you have

923
00:58:03,749 --> 00:58:08,629
Paul, you know, I consider a friend and if he likes it, boom, it goes on.

924
00:58:08,829 --> 00:58:11,989
Didn't take long for Zeno to hit

925
00:58:12,189 --> 00:58:16,149
edge wallet. And I asked him, Adam, I'm like, man, that was pretty fast.

926
00:58:16,149 --> 00:58:17,989
Why? Because they knew what they were doing.

927
00:58:18,189 --> 00:58:19,389
They solved the problem.

928
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:20,909
I could see it had value.

929
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:22,469
It's rock and roll.

930
00:58:22,669 --> 00:58:27,229
Boom. If you have, you know, a hard fork that

931
00:58:27,429 --> 00:58:30,949
solves a problem that's easy to integrate that, you know, boom,

932
00:58:30,949 --> 00:58:33,949
you start getting on watch, boom, you start getting on exchanges.

933
00:58:34,149 --> 00:58:36,269
It's not guaranteed, though.

934
00:58:36,469 --> 00:58:39,869
You know, so this is then you go, well, we have our own wallet.

935
00:58:39,869 --> 00:58:41,429
Oh, yeah. I get to have another one.

936
00:58:41,629 --> 00:58:46,989
You know, so I'm just this is I need to know the immediate benefit.

937
00:58:47,189 --> 00:58:51,989
I do this and I get what I get more transactions a second.

938
00:58:52,189 --> 00:58:53,429
I get more privacy.

939
00:58:53,629 --> 00:58:56,389
I get or I just get another coin we can pump and dump.

940
00:58:56,589 --> 00:58:58,909
I'm just like, what are you doing?

941
00:58:59,109 --> 00:59:00,549
Why are you doing this?

942
00:59:00,829 --> 00:59:02,949
What is this the service to me?

943
00:59:03,149 --> 00:59:05,349
Not some general. Well, you get to have, you know,

944
00:59:05,549 --> 00:59:09,869
it's not so big of a, you know, a node that you have and you can manage.

945
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:10,989
Yeah. Why?

946
00:59:11,189 --> 00:59:12,269
Why do I want to do that?

947
00:59:12,469 --> 00:59:16,989
You know, I want to have digital cash that I can peer to peer.

948
00:59:17,189 --> 00:59:18,789
It's done. It's private.

949
00:59:18,989 --> 00:59:22,349
And I'm out. Why else would I do a fork?

950
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:23,869
What is the point?

951
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:25,229
Why are you doing it?

952
00:59:25,429 --> 00:59:27,229
Solving what problem?

953
00:59:27,429 --> 00:59:27,829
Right.

954
00:59:27,829 --> 00:59:30,989
So you say that you want, you know, digital cash.

955
00:59:31,189 --> 00:59:32,469
You want you want X, Y, Z.

956
00:59:32,669 --> 00:59:36,949
But in practice, that what that really means is that you have

957
00:59:37,149 --> 00:59:41,309
chosen a specific piece of full node software to run that's run by certain

958
00:59:41,509 --> 00:59:46,669
developers and over and over again, we've seen that.

959
00:59:46,869 --> 00:59:51,269
There are disputes and disagreements among the different,

960
00:59:51,469 --> 00:59:55,029
you know, among technical people as to what the software should do in the block

961
00:59:55,029 --> 00:59:57,389
size war is just one example of that.

962
00:59:57,589 --> 01:00:00,869
And the fight for privacy is another example for that,

963
01:00:01,069 --> 01:00:03,749
where there was this stuff was proposed with Zcash.

964
01:00:03,949 --> 01:00:06,629
And a lot of people said we can't bring

965
01:00:06,629 --> 01:00:08,389
this to Bitcoin because it's too private.

966
01:00:08,389 --> 01:00:11,069
We won't be able to audit the 21 million coin limit.

967
01:00:11,269 --> 01:00:13,229
So the point is, there's a lot of disagreement.

968
01:00:13,429 --> 01:00:16,189
You know, when you start, it's easy to start a new coin,

969
01:00:16,389 --> 01:00:17,949
but it'll be very small.

970
01:00:18,149 --> 01:00:20,709
And then in practice, the coin will grow

971
01:00:20,909 --> 01:00:23,989
to a certain point and then there will be these disagreements.

972
01:00:24,029 --> 01:00:26,469
And then someone will just create a new coin.

973
01:00:26,669 --> 01:00:30,749
And we need something where when there's a disagreement,

974
01:00:30,949 --> 01:00:35,709
everyone can stay in the same economic unit, the same economic coin.

975
01:00:35,909 --> 01:00:40,149
So that's the difference between this idea, the Drivechain idea that I invented.

976
01:00:40,349 --> 01:00:41,709
And

977
01:00:42,709 --> 01:00:44,629
just going with either one,

978
01:00:44,829 --> 01:00:50,029
either going with a world of altcoins or going with a world where you expect your

979
01:00:50,029 --> 01:00:54,589
one coin to be infallible, perfect coin for everyone.

980
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:58,749
Because I think that, you know, different people have different.

981
01:00:58,949 --> 01:01:01,909
They're in different situations, they have different needs and different wants.

982
01:01:01,909 --> 01:01:03,309
And so the question is, can we try?

983
01:01:03,509 --> 01:01:07,029
How can we accommodate the fact that all of these people are very different?

984
01:01:07,029 --> 01:01:08,709
Some of them have different Internet speed.

985
01:01:08,909 --> 01:01:10,989
Some of them really need the full node.

986
01:01:11,189 --> 01:01:15,309
Other people really don't need a full node and they could use SPV.

987
01:01:15,509 --> 01:01:18,429
So people are very different, but some people really need privacy.

988
01:01:18,469 --> 01:01:19,709
Some people don't.

989
01:01:19,909 --> 01:01:22,909
Some people want to invent a new feature.

990
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:28,229
They wanted Vitalik, wanted to basically invent the EVM, the virtual machine.

991
01:01:28,429 --> 01:01:31,349
But other people said, well, that's not a feature and we don't want that.

992
01:01:31,549 --> 01:01:33,869
So the question of how to resolve

993
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:40,149
disagreement is, I think, a very valuable

994
01:01:40,349 --> 01:01:41,709
it's a very valuable attribute.

995
01:01:41,909 --> 01:01:45,509
And I think it's possible that it is.

996
01:01:45,669 --> 01:01:48,429
The attribute that draws the line between

997
01:01:48,629 --> 01:01:53,389
the surviving single surviving coin and all of the failed coins.

998
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:55,229
So I think it's a pretty big deal.

999
01:01:55,229 --> 01:01:58,669
Now, there's no guarantee that I'm right about that, of course, but.

1000
01:01:58,869 --> 01:02:04,189
Well, you know, I need to I need to understand the the use case.

1001
01:02:04,389 --> 01:02:06,829
You know, what is it? What do you say you do here?

1002
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:09,709
We're doing you know, we've got five gazillion cryptos.

1003
01:02:09,909 --> 01:02:12,149
I mean, that's one thing, you know,

1004
01:02:12,349 --> 01:02:16,549
Peter Schiff comes on quite a bit and then, you know, his thing, you know,

1005
01:02:16,829 --> 01:02:20,029
tokenized gold and freaking I can't believe it's going to go to all the zero.

1006
01:02:20,229 --> 01:02:23,149
And, you know, what? But the

1007
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:32,149
I'm looking at the features that I was promised from the beginning.

1008
01:02:32,349 --> 01:02:35,069
You know, I just turned 65.

1009
01:02:35,269 --> 01:02:37,589
I've been in the Liberty community for a long time.

1010
01:02:37,789 --> 01:02:40,869
I've seen all that we we did e-gold back

1011
01:02:40,869 --> 01:02:44,389
when we first, you know, started our show back in the early 2000s.

1012
01:02:44,589 --> 01:02:46,189
We were doing the e-gold thing.

1013
01:02:46,269 --> 01:02:47,949
We've been doing the dime card thing.

1014
01:02:48,029 --> 01:02:49,549
We've been doing the silver thing.

1015
01:02:49,749 --> 01:02:50,949
We do the crypto thing.

1016
01:02:51,149 --> 01:02:52,349
We go to different cryptos.

1017
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:55,709
I'm looking for a solution.

1018
01:02:55,909 --> 01:02:57,109
To what?

1019
01:02:57,309 --> 01:03:03,629
To surveillance, to third party risk, to speed, to cheapness.

1020
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:05,909
Crypto, we can program that.

1021
01:03:06,109 --> 01:03:09,109
I go, well, but we need.

1022
01:03:09,269 --> 01:03:12,949
This thing, we need this network, we need to be, you know,

1023
01:03:13,149 --> 01:03:16,629
on the top of the number one of this feature of this is how we're going to do

1024
01:03:16,829 --> 01:03:19,029
it in the wallet of whatever, you know, whatever.

1025
01:03:19,229 --> 01:03:21,269
What do I get?

1026
01:03:21,469 --> 01:03:25,469
I'm telling you, Paul, I've been through this stuff a gazillion times.

1027
01:03:25,669 --> 01:03:28,469
What am I getting?

1028
01:03:28,669 --> 01:03:30,429
But I tried to explain it, right.

1029
01:03:30,629 --> 01:03:33,629
Which is that, you know, am I getting privacy?

1030
01:03:33,669 --> 01:03:34,869
Am I getting privacy? Yes.

1031
01:03:35,069 --> 01:03:37,069
But really, the problem that the drive

1032
01:03:37,069 --> 01:03:40,349
production idea solves is this problem that there will eventually be

1033
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:43,669
disagreement over what the software should do.

1034
01:03:43,869 --> 01:03:45,829
So you have a sort of future proof,

1035
01:03:46,029 --> 01:03:49,789
you have competition among different developers, they can each implement their

1036
01:03:49,989 --> 01:03:52,949
ideas, you can just wait, you can sit back and wait.

1037
01:03:53,149 --> 01:03:57,229
So it's basically lets you, you know, launch something that is like an altcoin.

1038
01:03:57,429 --> 01:03:59,469
It has a new tech stack.

1039
01:03:59,669 --> 01:04:02,629
So, for example, if we had this during the block size war.

1040
01:04:02,829 --> 01:04:04,829
If we had had this back during the block

1041
01:04:05,029 --> 01:04:08,389
size war, there would have been a one megabyte Bitcoin core.

1042
01:04:08,589 --> 01:04:11,189
And then there could have been an eight megabyte L2.

1043
01:04:11,389 --> 01:04:14,709
This would not have split the community into Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash.

1044
01:04:14,909 --> 01:04:17,109
They would everyone would be in the same network.

1045
01:04:17,309 --> 01:04:19,669
People would probably have remained friends.

1046
01:04:19,869 --> 01:04:26,709
There would have been no like competition in a bad way between the two projects.

1047
01:04:26,709 --> 01:04:29,229
But there would have been competition in a good way, which is like Roger would have

1048
01:04:29,229 --> 01:04:33,229
been giving everyone he would be handing out five dollars in Bitcoin cash to

1049
01:04:33,229 --> 01:04:36,269
everyone, except instead of Bitcoin cash, it would have just been like basically on

1050
01:04:36,269 --> 01:04:39,429
this new blockchain that's kind of like would take on the role of the Lightning

1051
01:04:39,629 --> 01:04:43,509
Network, the Lightning Network would probably have been tried.

1052
01:04:43,709 --> 01:04:49,429
In BTC, but then quickly abandoned because it really is just, you know,

1053
01:04:49,629 --> 01:04:54,509
what they call nerd sniping and it's just like developer kind of make work projects.

1054
01:04:54,509 --> 01:04:57,429
So even though they probably would have tried it, they would have just been like,

1055
01:04:57,629 --> 01:05:00,909
well, ultimately, this can't compete with the eight megabyte.

1056
01:05:01,109 --> 01:05:03,949
OK, so let's go ahead and go eCash.

1057
01:05:04,149 --> 01:05:05,749
You know, you do it right.

1058
01:05:05,949 --> 01:05:07,629
When do you plan on making the fork?

1059
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:09,349
It's not until August.

1060
01:05:09,549 --> 01:05:10,229
Yeah.

1061
01:05:10,429 --> 01:05:12,709
So August, you're going to be doing this.

1062
01:05:12,909 --> 01:05:16,269
So we got time to, you know, whatever, whatever you're doing.

1063
01:05:16,469 --> 01:05:20,149
But, you know, immediately it goes, boom, it forks.

1064
01:05:20,349 --> 01:05:23,789
Everybody has Bitcoin, has eCash.

1065
01:05:23,989 --> 01:05:25,669
How am I using eCash?

1066
01:05:25,869 --> 01:05:28,589
I mean, you're one. Let's assume you're on some exchange.

1067
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:30,229
Let's assume you got your wallet.

1068
01:05:30,229 --> 01:05:34,909
Let's assume, you know, it gets added to EDGE or whatever, you know.

1069
01:05:35,109 --> 01:05:36,709
OK.

1070
01:05:37,669 --> 01:05:41,509
Is it faster, is it every 10 minutes, you know, is it?

1071
01:05:41,709 --> 01:05:43,389
The L1 is the same as Bitcoin Core.

1072
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:47,069
So it's every 10 minutes and it's shot to 56D mind.

1073
01:05:47,269 --> 01:05:49,989
So the L1 is very, very similar to Bitcoin Core.

1074
01:05:50,189 --> 01:05:51,909
Just one intentional change.

1075
01:05:52,109 --> 01:05:53,909
Well, two, really.

1076
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:57,669
But OK, so it's almost the same as BTC.

1077
01:05:57,909 --> 01:06:00,069
But as the. Yes.

1078
01:06:00,269 --> 01:06:01,429
Sorry. What does it produce?

1079
01:06:01,629 --> 01:06:03,829
OK, we we made these two changes.

1080
01:06:04,029 --> 01:06:06,909
We're going to keep the the

1081
01:06:07,109 --> 01:06:11,029
block size half of what it originally was.

1082
01:06:11,229 --> 01:06:13,389
Why? What does that do?

1083
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:17,429
Just make it where more people can have more nodes.

1084
01:06:17,629 --> 01:06:19,429
It's fewer

1085
01:06:19,829 --> 01:06:21,509
bytes on my hard drive.

1086
01:06:21,709 --> 01:06:24,349
I mean, what was the reason for that?

1087
01:06:24,509 --> 01:06:27,989
Well, the whole reason to do this project is because.

1088
01:06:28,189 --> 01:06:33,549
There's been an under emphasis on merge mined L2s in the Bitcoin world.

1089
01:06:33,749 --> 01:06:36,469
So it's about creating these new L2s.

1090
01:06:36,669 --> 01:06:39,029
That is the that is the big draw.

1091
01:06:39,229 --> 01:06:42,469
And we could have them on BTC at any time.

1092
01:06:42,669 --> 01:06:45,029
If the if Bitcoin Core would get their act

1093
01:06:45,229 --> 01:06:48,269
together or if the miners would get their act together,

1094
01:06:49,069 --> 01:06:50,629
we could have that at any time.

1095
01:06:50,789 --> 01:06:53,269
But, you know, the Bitcoin culture has,

1096
01:06:53,469 --> 01:06:58,069
you know, as you say, it's just become like buy this stock and we're all going to
get

1097
01:06:58,269 --> 01:07:01,269
rich type of thing, and it's not really as much about

1098
01:07:01,469 --> 01:07:06,549
gaining actual users or having actual transactions.

1099
01:07:06,749 --> 01:07:09,789
And which is really unfortunate, because the model where everyone's actually

1100
01:07:09,989 --> 01:07:13,429
transacting with it every day and they pay a small fee and the miners are

1101
01:07:13,629 --> 01:07:17,469
collecting small fee rates from a large number of transactions.

1102
01:07:17,469 --> 01:07:19,229
And so they're loyal.

1103
01:07:19,229 --> 01:07:23,109
They have a huge pile of money coming in and they're loyal to the actual users.

1104
01:07:23,309 --> 01:07:24,829
The users are actually, you know,

1105
01:07:25,029 --> 01:07:28,869
transacting on the network and the full nodes are actually doing something.

1106
01:07:29,069 --> 01:07:33,069
That model is much more sustainable and.

1107
01:07:33,269 --> 01:07:37,829
That's much more workable than the.

1108
01:07:38,029 --> 01:07:39,989
The what we currently have, where there's

1109
01:07:39,989 --> 01:07:43,229
actually the fee rates are low, the transaction throughput is low.

1110
01:07:43,429 --> 01:07:44,629
We have very few people actually

1111
01:07:44,629 --> 01:07:48,509
transacting and we have, you know, why even have if it's all going to be

1112
01:07:48,709 --> 01:07:53,949
corporate ETF Bitcoin, then you don't even need the full nodes or the peer to peer

1113
01:07:54,149 --> 01:07:57,829
network. So, but yeah, the big draw, the whole point

1114
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:59,749
of doing this is to get these L2 nodes.

1115
01:07:59,949 --> 01:08:04,749
So, for example, I have tested some of these L2 nodes and these

1116
01:08:04,949 --> 01:08:07,709
are public tests that anyone can rerun on GitHub.

1117
01:08:07,909 --> 01:08:10,429
You can just go you just look this up and just click the button.

1118
01:08:10,429 --> 01:08:12,549
I think you have to pay for the runners maybe.

1119
01:08:12,749 --> 01:08:14,789
But the point is you rent GitHub's

1120
01:08:14,989 --> 01:08:18,109
computers and you can just click redo the test.

1121
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:22,269
I've tested the software to basically 50

1122
01:08:22,469 --> 01:08:27,269
percent of the Earth's transaction rate, which is like trillions of transactions

1123
01:08:27,469 --> 01:08:29,429
per year.

1124
01:08:29,629 --> 01:08:33,949
And then we also have a privacy L2 that, again, is based on Zcash.

1125
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:37,469
And we have that hides the center of the receiver in the amount.

1126
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:41,589
So people who want privacy, they can move the coins within the software.

1127
01:08:41,629 --> 01:08:43,869
They shift the coins around.

1128
01:08:44,069 --> 01:08:46,669
The privacy of their own home to the

1129
01:08:46,869 --> 01:08:51,789
privacy chain, privacy L2 chain, and then they can use it there.

1130
01:08:51,989 --> 01:08:54,829
Part of the draw is that the different L2s will compete.

1131
01:08:55,029 --> 01:09:00,549
So if any of the L2s make a mistake or they're just too lazy to improve.

1132
01:09:00,749 --> 01:09:03,229
Or if there's just something that won't be fixed.

1133
01:09:03,429 --> 01:09:06,149
Anyone can make a new L2 at any time.

1134
01:09:06,349 --> 01:09:08,909
So there's a little bit of a meta

1135
01:09:09,109 --> 01:09:11,149
aspect to the project.

1136
01:09:11,349 --> 01:09:15,549
It's it's not necessarily about what the L2s do on day one.

1137
01:09:15,749 --> 01:09:19,309
It's a little bit more about having a platform of competition.

1138
01:09:19,509 --> 01:09:21,309
Living in a capitalist world versus a

1139
01:09:21,509 --> 01:09:24,229
communist world where it's like a communist world.

1140
01:09:24,229 --> 01:09:26,349
Everything's planned and there's no competition.

1141
01:09:26,469 --> 01:09:27,949
They used to describe it, as you know,

1142
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:30,749
they used to describe it as wasteful competition.

1143
01:09:30,949 --> 01:09:36,349
They used to say, well, here we just have one sawmill and everyone cooperates.

1144
01:09:36,549 --> 01:09:41,349
But of course, it was it was quickly revealed that

1145
01:09:41,549 --> 01:09:45,589
that in the capitalist system, the competition is not wasteful at all.

1146
01:09:45,789 --> 01:09:49,669
And the competition purges errors from like, you know, there's the famous photo

1147
01:09:49,869 --> 01:09:55,269
of the one guy visiting the supermarket and everyone's just amazed at how much.

1148
01:09:55,469 --> 01:09:57,509
Food and the variety and the selection,

1149
01:09:57,709 --> 01:10:01,749
there is a food in a capitalist country, and that's because competition

1150
01:10:01,949 --> 01:10:07,149
produces innovation and it punishes any mistakes.

1151
01:10:07,349 --> 01:10:11,269
So this competition point is an extremely important point.

1152
01:10:11,469 --> 01:10:13,349
And even though we're going to ship it

1153
01:10:13,549 --> 01:10:17,549
with like a kind of starter pack of L2s.

1154
01:10:17,749 --> 01:10:22,029
That, I think, would almost miss the point, and I would even say that

1155
01:10:22,229 --> 01:10:26,749
we're not necessarily specialists in picking the perfect L2s ourselves,

1156
01:10:26,749 --> 01:10:29,269
even though we are we are shipping with seven different types.

1157
01:10:29,469 --> 01:10:31,269
So we have scalability, privacy.

1158
01:10:31,349 --> 01:10:33,229
We have one that's very similar to Namecoin,

1159
01:10:33,429 --> 01:10:36,669
which is the first altcoin that was invented by Satoshi himself.

1160
01:10:36,869 --> 01:10:38,549
And he invented Merchminding as well.

1161
01:10:38,749 --> 01:10:42,349
Yeah, we were head developers on Namecoin back in the day.

1162
01:10:42,389 --> 01:10:45,549
Yeah, I think it had a lot of potential and it's a really cool project.

1163
01:10:45,749 --> 01:10:48,829
And I actually think it's also very underexplored.

1164
01:10:49,029 --> 01:10:51,149
So when you log in, you must have noticed

1165
01:10:51,349 --> 01:10:56,309
that we get tons of spam email and tons of spam phone calls all the time.

1166
01:10:56,469 --> 01:11:00,949
And when you log in, it's basically all based on your email.

1167
01:11:01,149 --> 01:11:04,909
And so your email provider, like a lot of people just use Gmail or something,

1168
01:11:04,909 --> 01:11:08,029
they just the email provider can just reset all of your passwords and get it

1169
01:11:08,229 --> 01:11:11,549
to all of your accounts whenever you want.

1170
01:11:11,749 --> 01:11:14,269
If you try to go with an obscure email

1171
01:11:14,469 --> 01:11:18,309
provider, then sometimes they won't allow you to register

1172
01:11:18,509 --> 01:11:21,709
for an account because they don't you know, there's like different tiers.

1173
01:11:21,909 --> 01:11:24,069
So even if you try to email

1174
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:27,269
because in order to deter spam, they have worked out all these systems

1175
01:11:27,269 --> 01:11:31,189
that involve like blacklists and also whitelists for like prioritizing certain

1176
01:11:31,389 --> 01:11:34,629
email providers, they say, well, this person's legit and this person's not.

1177
01:11:34,829 --> 01:11:36,909
And that's why you have like log in with Google.

1178
01:11:36,909 --> 01:11:38,469
Now you have like log in with Facebook.

1179
01:11:38,469 --> 01:11:39,429
You have all that stuff.

1180
01:11:39,629 --> 01:11:42,069
The Namecoin world, I think

1181
01:11:42,269 --> 01:11:44,429
could really improve all of that.

1182
01:11:44,629 --> 01:11:46,429
But Namecoin was an altcoin.

1183
01:11:46,629 --> 01:11:47,669
But here is an L2.

1184
01:11:47,869 --> 01:11:51,629
So the L2s, they they're similar to altcoins where you can do whatever you want

1185
01:11:51,629 --> 01:11:55,909
with the software, but the the twenty one million coins.

1186
01:11:56,109 --> 01:11:59,549
Are shared among all of the

1187
01:12:01,069 --> 01:12:03,069
shared equally among all the different chains.

1188
01:12:03,069 --> 01:12:04,549
So it's kind of like when you deposit

1189
01:12:04,549 --> 01:12:07,069
coins to the Lightning Network and then you can pull them back.

1190
01:12:07,269 --> 01:12:10,109
Or at least that's how it would work if the Lightning Network were OK.

1191
01:12:10,309 --> 01:12:12,709
This is Namecoin is a good example.

1192
01:12:12,909 --> 01:12:18,029
When Namecoin was getting a lot of attention from some of the RIT guys

1193
01:12:18,029 --> 01:12:22,029
and everything, they're going, Ernie, you need to get your Namecoin address for

1194
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:25,309
freedoms, Phoenix and whatever, you know, just get it, you know,

1195
01:12:25,509 --> 01:12:27,829
done like nothing, whatever it was.

1196
01:12:28,029 --> 01:12:29,149
And so we did that.

1197
01:12:29,349 --> 01:12:31,389
Well, the project didn't really I didn't

1198
01:12:31,589 --> 01:12:36,109
know Satoshi had anything to do with that, you know, but it was

1199
01:12:36,309 --> 01:12:39,149
but he did. What was his role in Namecoin?

1200
01:12:39,349 --> 01:12:44,269
There was a thread called a bit DNS and generalizing Bitcoin.

1201
01:12:44,429 --> 01:12:49,229
And someone else, I believe, came up with the idea, like they had like the first few

1202
01:12:49,229 --> 01:12:52,829
paragraphs coming up with the idea, but Satoshi is a very active participant in this

1203
01:12:53,029 --> 01:12:59,589
thread. And he he co-invents merged mining.

1204
01:12:59,629 --> 01:13:01,229
So he says basically that there will be

1205
01:13:01,229 --> 01:13:04,989
lots of Satoshi kind of makes a bunch of comments in this thread, which I highly

1206
01:13:04,989 --> 01:13:08,229
encourage everyone to read, especially people who are OG Bitcoiners and they're

1207
01:13:08,229 --> 01:13:11,709
very curious about this law and they're curious about especially because my

1208
01:13:11,709 --> 01:13:16,429
project really advocates the merge mined L2,

1209
01:13:16,629 --> 01:13:21,629
which is very similar to what Satoshi is talking about in this thread.

1210
01:13:21,829 --> 01:13:24,949
But in the thread, it's clear that Satoshi is kind of just like, yeah,

1211
01:13:24,949 --> 01:13:27,589
there'll be all these different networks, there'll be all these different block

1212
01:13:27,789 --> 01:13:31,389
chains, so Satoshi kind of just shrugs it off and says that there'll be all these

1213
01:13:31,589 --> 01:13:33,909
different block chains. He doesn't react at all.

1214
01:13:34,109 --> 01:13:39,389
In contrast to the toxic maxis, he doesn't say like, oh, this shouldn't exist at
all.

1215
01:13:39,469 --> 01:13:41,709
There's no like defensive, fearful reaction.

1216
01:13:41,909 --> 01:13:43,629
He's like, oh, yeah, this is a pretty cool idea.

1217
01:13:43,829 --> 01:13:46,149
He's like suggesting how to tune it up a little bit.

1218
01:13:46,269 --> 01:13:48,269
And ultimately, they co-invent the people

1219
01:13:48,269 --> 01:13:51,149
in this thread, which is a long thread that many people participate in.

1220
01:13:51,349 --> 01:13:54,269
But Satoshi invents a way where the miner

1221
01:13:54,469 --> 01:13:59,629
can mine both Bitcoin and Namecoin block at the same time without doing any extra

1222
01:13:59,829 --> 01:14:03,709
work, which is called merge mining. And in fact, this was invented in 2010.

1223
01:14:03,909 --> 01:14:08,629
It was implemented in 2011 and it has been in continuous use ever since.

1224
01:14:08,629 --> 01:14:14,229
So there was a BitMEX research post on this that people can look up,

1225
01:14:14,429 --> 01:14:16,309
but they track

1226
01:14:16,509 --> 01:14:21,349
just how many blockchains use merge mining and how many when someone runs a Bitcoin

1227
01:14:21,549 --> 01:14:25,589
miner, usually what happens is the mining pool mines a block for like 15 or 16

1228
01:14:25,789 --> 01:14:29,869
different coins all at once. They'll sell the merge mined altcoin for

1229
01:14:30,069 --> 01:14:35,149
more BTC and they will credit some of it, you know, maybe not all of it.

1230
01:14:35,149 --> 01:14:38,029
I don't know if someone could look into that, but I'm not even sure how we would

1231
01:14:38,029 --> 01:14:42,029
tell, but they credit you, they'll tell you the client and they say,

1232
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:44,029
we pay you more

1233
01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:46,709
money because we're getting more money.

1234
01:14:46,909 --> 01:14:50,909
And most of the pools today are pay per share, which is to say they just they

1235
01:14:51,109 --> 01:14:54,749
don't even they don't even tell the individual miner like about what they're

1236
01:14:54,949 --> 01:14:58,429
doing, they just say, we'll give you this amount of money per hash rate.

1237
01:14:58,629 --> 01:15:00,549
And in that case, it's kind of all swept up.

1238
01:15:00,549 --> 01:15:01,869
It's a little more it's a little more

1239
01:15:02,069 --> 01:15:04,309
organized because they just say, well, this is a.

1240
01:15:04,846 --> 01:15:08,846
We can afford to pay you like instead of paying you one hundred and ten dollars,
we'll pay you one hundred and seventeen dollars if you hash with us with this miner
for a day.

1241
01:15:08,846 --> 01:15:23,246
And so that is that was the invention of Namecoin and Namecoin was originally called
BitDNS because domain name system was named after the Internet.

1242
01:15:24,246 --> 01:15:39,446
DNS, because you would have the idea was the original idea was something like you'd
have like, you know, freedomsphoenix.bit because you probably were able to get and
that people would be able to type that into their web browser and it would take you
to the page.

1243
01:15:39,446 --> 01:15:42,646
And then this would be a name that no one would be able to take away from you.

1244
01:15:43,046 --> 01:15:56,286
So this was a very cool idea because it wouldn't matter, like the government
couldn't seize the domain, you wouldn't have to pay five dollars a month to GoDaddy
or whatever or Namecheap or wherever people get their names.

1245
01:15:56,606 --> 01:15:59,006
You wouldn't have to like pay five dollars to renew it.

1246
01:15:59,006 --> 01:16:01,086
You would just own the name forever.

1247
01:16:01,086 --> 01:16:03,926
You could have it in like complicated multisig type stuff.

1248
01:16:04,166 --> 01:16:05,366
You could auction it off.

1249
01:16:05,806 --> 01:16:09,566
The name would be able to trigger like all kinds of cool stuff.

1250
01:16:09,566 --> 01:16:12,406
Like you could you could you could put a lot of stuff behind the name.

1251
01:16:12,406 --> 01:16:14,006
Like you could say, here's my PGP key.

1252
01:16:14,326 --> 01:16:18,286
Here's my here's my telephone number.

1253
01:16:18,286 --> 01:16:20,806
Here's my telegram ID.

1254
01:16:21,086 --> 01:16:24,166
You could be able to have like a whole list of stuff like here with my IP address.

1255
01:16:24,166 --> 01:16:34,206
No, I understood the benefit of being able to have it's like, you know, self custody
of your identity.

1256
01:16:34,326 --> 01:16:42,566
I mean, you know, it's and you know, you have all it because in the mid 90s, tell
the story a little bit, you'll understand.

1257
01:16:42,766 --> 01:16:48,366
And we'll get to the eCash is the segues into this, you know, you know, for like a
better return.

1258
01:16:48,806 --> 01:16:52,886
OK, this is what happened.

1259
01:16:53,326 --> 01:16:58,806
If you have a identity, you have an address you have.

1260
01:16:58,966 --> 01:17:20,006
But what happened in the 90s is there was a guy came, remember it went something
like he got paid one hundred thirty five thousand dollars a year to manage, you
know, the DNS name service of who gets what and how much money goes out and they buy
you all dot com Madonna dot com to get all they.

1261
01:17:21,286 --> 01:17:22,526
You're not allowed to do that.

1262
01:17:22,526 --> 01:17:23,446
You're doing it wrong.

1263
01:17:23,926 --> 01:17:25,686
Yeah, go talk to them.

1264
01:17:25,686 --> 01:17:29,006
And then they get into the central plan of international.

1265
01:17:29,006 --> 01:17:30,406
You're not allowed to do it.

1266
01:17:30,406 --> 01:17:40,526
And we need it in Geneva and a worldwide control of the world government of world
not be decentralized, you know, down to the individuals that own their own identity.

1267
01:17:40,566 --> 01:17:42,526
You got to go through the end.

1268
01:17:42,526 --> 01:17:43,326
That guy's dead.

1269
01:17:44,046 --> 01:17:44,886
He's dead.

1270
01:17:45,126 --> 01:17:46,006
He had a heart attack.

1271
01:17:46,006 --> 01:17:48,646
He's 30 something 40 years old and boom, he's dead.

1272
01:17:48,646 --> 01:17:49,126
Now what?

1273
01:17:49,286 --> 01:17:53,846
Oh, well, it goes to international of United, somebody of something.

1274
01:17:54,646 --> 01:18:03,206
Now you got a centralized service that allocates and manages and ultimately controls
your domain name.

1275
01:18:03,526 --> 01:18:12,166
OK, if you could have one person do that or one entity, man, it gets kind of, you
know, this guy was just managing whatever.

1276
01:18:12,566 --> 01:18:26,326
What happens is with Namecoin, if you own your own ID, your own address, your own
domain, your own everything underneath that, I saw the benefits of that and make
sure that didn't take off too much.

1277
01:18:26,326 --> 01:18:27,686
I mean, you know, damn.

1278
01:18:27,686 --> 01:18:35,246
So all of these ideas, all of these projects, all of this stuff was to address a
specific problem.

1279
01:18:35,966 --> 01:18:44,686
How do we decentralize from the centralized control of all this crap, you know, of
my transactions, of the history of my transactions?

1280
01:18:44,806 --> 01:18:46,846
Do I even have a history of the transactions?

1281
01:18:47,006 --> 01:18:53,246
You get into where Edward Snowden comes out and says, look at all this crap that
they're doing and surveilling of whatever and so on.

1282
01:18:53,366 --> 01:18:56,406
And they go, damn, how is he communicating?

1283
01:18:56,606 --> 01:18:59,566
Well, I don't know, is a lava bit or something like that.

1284
01:18:59,566 --> 01:19:00,686
I don't remember what it was.

1285
01:19:00,806 --> 01:19:11,846
But then they go to a lot of a bit one of the guys and they say, Patriot Act, you
work for us now, boy, you know, and we're going to tell us and give us all the
people and ID already goes, maybe not.

1286
01:19:11,846 --> 01:19:12,526
I closed a bit.

1287
01:19:12,566 --> 01:19:13,006
What?

1288
01:19:13,286 --> 01:19:14,526
You're not allowed to close a bit.

1289
01:19:14,526 --> 01:19:16,406
We didn't even think he may close their business.

1290
01:19:17,286 --> 01:19:19,446
Damn, you know, so we have him on.

1291
01:19:19,646 --> 01:19:24,926
Well, what happens is they're always going for the centralization thing.

1292
01:19:25,246 --> 01:19:28,606
Namecoin all stuff decentralizes a lot of stuff.

1293
01:19:28,606 --> 01:19:30,046
So now we get the eCash.

1294
01:19:30,806 --> 01:19:33,886
We're going to create a correct me if I'm wrong here.

1295
01:19:33,886 --> 01:19:35,366
This is what I'm gleaning from.

1296
01:19:35,366 --> 01:19:42,926
Yeah, I am trying to, you know, pieces together in my head is that using Bitcoin,
because it's the biggest network of whatever.

1297
01:19:42,926 --> 01:19:44,846
And, you know, you know it and like it.

1298
01:19:44,846 --> 01:19:46,046
And we'll do that.

1299
01:19:46,446 --> 01:19:54,606
You create another level, a layer that allows for more layers to interface with
Bitcoin.

1300
01:19:54,686 --> 01:19:59,006
In fact, you're encouraging that you need to develop on Bitcoin.

1301
01:19:59,166 --> 01:20:05,406
A lot of these features that you can have another chain to interfaces with this and
settles over here and everything.

1302
01:20:05,406 --> 01:20:15,686
But we got all of this infrastructure processing and networking that we can provide
solutions that anybody wants on Bitcoin.

1303
01:20:16,286 --> 01:20:20,086
So I'm going, OK, well, you know, I mean, that's one way to look at it.

1304
01:20:20,406 --> 01:20:25,006
So I'm I'm wondering how far off I'm on that.

1305
01:20:25,166 --> 01:20:37,526
You're advocating for Bitcoin sidechains, layers that would use that network to
create the solutions that people keep bitching about.

1306
01:20:37,526 --> 01:20:38,606
And certainly I do.

1307
01:20:38,646 --> 01:20:39,726
How far off am I?

1308
01:20:41,366 --> 01:20:42,446
That's pretty close, I think.

1309
01:20:42,446 --> 01:20:48,406
I mean, a lot of this stuff would be invented if developers could just develop and
make this stuff.

1310
01:20:48,406 --> 01:20:55,206
So if they if they had the opportunity to just make a Namecoin based off of
Bitcoin, they would.

1311
01:20:55,206 --> 01:20:56,926
In fact, this this happened many times.

1312
01:20:56,926 --> 01:21:02,166
So like Vitalik tried to do Ethereum as a Bitcoin project first.

1313
01:21:02,806 --> 01:21:08,766
Certainly Roger Ver tried to get his large blocks and all the other large blockers.

1314
01:21:09,526 --> 01:21:14,646
They tried to get they tried to, you know, persuade BTC to have large block first.

1315
01:21:15,606 --> 01:21:24,966
Before making their own project and yeah, in the Namecoin thread that I mentioned
before, people were saying, well, wait a minute, is this with Bitcoin?

1316
01:21:24,966 --> 01:21:30,126
And then they said, well, no, actually, it's a new coin and the value of the coin
would float.

1317
01:21:31,246 --> 01:21:33,046
They have exchange rate fluctuations.

1318
01:21:33,046 --> 01:21:35,886
But that's exactly what I would like to prevent.

1319
01:21:35,886 --> 01:21:42,086
So in my idea that you have basically a new blockchain and the coins go in at a one
to one rate.

1320
01:21:42,366 --> 01:21:47,766
And so you can just deposit you can just take seven coins from the L1 and put them
on the L2 and you have seven coins there.

1321
01:21:47,926 --> 01:21:49,366
You can send them to a new owner.

1322
01:21:49,806 --> 01:21:55,246
Then the new owner can take all the seven coins and pull them back to the L1 if they
wish.

1323
01:21:55,726 --> 01:22:01,886
And the hard fork is just because I'd like to have a place where we can actually try
out this technology in the real world.

1324
01:22:03,366 --> 01:22:06,926
There's no guarantee that it will do well or there's no guarantee that we even need
it.

1325
01:22:06,966 --> 01:22:12,166
Maybe Bitcoin, BTC is doing just fine and maybe no one needs this technology.

1326
01:22:12,166 --> 01:22:18,046
But actually, I think it's quite an important thing to be able to handle.

1327
01:22:18,046 --> 01:22:24,446
Like so far, no one has I don't see any of the cryptocurrencies as having a huge
amount of success.

1328
01:22:24,446 --> 01:22:27,806
I mean, obviously, BTC has done very, very well in terms of price.

1329
01:22:28,046 --> 01:22:30,726
And we had Donald Trump speak at our event in Nashville.

1330
01:22:31,166 --> 01:22:37,566
But I think if you given that that's what happened, that we had Donald Trump speak
at the event.

1331
01:22:38,606 --> 01:22:43,766
And then go on to win the presidential election, like that's just a huge amount of
recognition.

1332
01:22:43,766 --> 01:22:50,726
And still most people just think of this cryptocurrency industry as including
Bitcoin as kind of like a scam.

1333
01:22:51,726 --> 01:22:55,526
Most people, they pay some attention to it and they decide it's not really for them.

1334
01:22:55,886 --> 01:23:07,726
It's still kind of small, even on BTC, the blocks are not actually filled up and the
transaction fee rates are low because there's so little usage.

1335
01:23:09,126 --> 01:23:16,246
And the price has gone up as a result of Trump's election, but it really hasn't gone
up as much as.

1336
01:23:16,246 --> 01:23:24,806
So, for example, I know some people who we were talking about this before, like some
people bought Bitcoin for like 10 cents.

1337
01:23:25,126 --> 01:23:27,486
This is like the Max Keiser era.

1338
01:23:28,486 --> 01:23:32,206
And they could sell it sold at $100,000.

1339
01:23:32,206 --> 01:23:33,846
So they made a million X.

1340
01:23:35,206 --> 01:23:39,566
But in the modern world, you know, we haven't seen that kind of growth.

1341
01:23:39,886 --> 01:23:41,126
That's for a variety of reasons.

1342
01:23:41,126 --> 01:23:48,486
But I think we can't I think I'm not sure how far we can go from here without new
software and new projects.

1343
01:23:48,486 --> 01:23:51,486
So that's that's why you need cash.

1344
01:23:51,606 --> 01:23:54,286
Yes, you mentioned Vitalik.

1345
01:23:54,286 --> 01:23:58,206
And, you know, I remember when this was going on and I pulled it up.

1346
01:23:58,206 --> 01:24:00,006
I couldn't remember what year it was.

1347
01:24:00,326 --> 01:24:19,246
And in 2016, you know, we had him on and I'm going, OK, you know, explain it to me,
Vitalik, because we'd be at Porcupine Freedom Festival at the, you know, on the
picnic table of, you know, yacking about whatever.

1348
01:24:19,526 --> 01:24:21,606
And how they're going to change the planet.

1349
01:24:21,646 --> 01:24:22,566
This is early on.

1350
01:24:22,846 --> 01:24:28,686
Now, this is, you know, 10, 11, 13, around about three years there.

1351
01:24:28,886 --> 01:24:29,566
It was man.

1352
01:24:29,566 --> 01:24:30,846
They were all excited.

1353
01:24:31,246 --> 01:24:36,486
Vitalik by that time had did Ethereum.

1354
01:24:36,646 --> 01:24:38,566
And the reason was he goes.

1355
01:24:38,566 --> 01:24:42,926
I remember there was a bunch of talk in Bitcoin about colored coins.

1356
01:24:42,966 --> 01:24:45,166
OK, and you may be able to explain that.

1357
01:24:45,326 --> 01:24:53,086
It was you could have like a Bitcoin transaction you had that represented a
membership card or you had, you know, this block.

1358
01:24:53,086 --> 01:24:54,486
They were colored. They were marked.

1359
01:24:54,486 --> 01:24:56,086
They were this meant something.

1360
01:24:56,206 --> 01:25:00,046
And then you could have actual verbiage in their text.

1361
01:25:00,046 --> 01:25:02,646
You could send it in like the note area.

1362
01:25:02,886 --> 01:25:07,406
I'm going, oh, man, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you can do with this.

1363
01:25:07,406 --> 01:25:10,246
You know, this is like, you know, secret spy crap and send it.

1364
01:25:10,246 --> 01:25:12,446
But it's not so anonymous, you know.

1365
01:25:12,686 --> 01:25:18,046
Well, Vitalik comes in, understands this, and he goes, look, we could do this.

1366
01:25:18,046 --> 01:25:18,766
We could do that.

1367
01:25:18,766 --> 01:25:21,406
We could have, you know, multi-state contracts.

1368
01:25:21,406 --> 01:25:23,006
We could do all kinds of stuff.

1369
01:25:23,486 --> 01:25:25,286
And, you know, that's not what we want.

1370
01:25:25,286 --> 01:25:27,566
We don't know what the goal was.

1371
01:25:27,726 --> 01:25:36,046
And behind it, you started to see the cracks that there was an interest in creating
an integration with the government.

1372
01:25:36,206 --> 01:25:37,646
You know, permission slips.

1373
01:25:37,766 --> 01:25:43,486
It'd be ETFs, and we're going to have it as a currency and stable coins and yadda,
yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda.

1374
01:25:43,646 --> 01:25:45,086
It was a banking thing.

1375
01:25:45,206 --> 01:25:52,606
And then you get Hal D'Castries that was chairman of two Bilderbergers, you know,
primary funder for Blockstream.

1376
01:25:52,606 --> 01:25:56,486
It takes over core development of where I'm like, and we're done.

1377
01:25:56,766 --> 01:25:59,166
OK, I go, seriously.

1378
01:25:59,326 --> 01:26:03,686
Well, then Vitalik, you know, he's like at the time, I could do this.

1379
01:26:03,846 --> 01:26:06,166
I just do my own damn chain, Ethereum.

1380
01:26:06,646 --> 01:26:11,166
Well, then Ethereum gets hacked or whatever, and they go, yeah, we're doing a redo,
man.

1381
01:26:11,166 --> 01:26:12,606
We're just, you know, kind of starting over.

1382
01:26:12,606 --> 01:26:20,926
So then you have Ethereum Classic and then Ethereum that they just said, we're
redoing the last week or month or whatever the hell they did because it got hacked
and they took four.

1383
01:26:21,326 --> 01:26:23,166
Yeah, we're because we can.

1384
01:26:23,326 --> 01:26:25,286
You can bitch all you want and screw you.

1385
01:26:25,286 --> 01:26:26,486
And we're over here.

1386
01:26:26,926 --> 01:26:36,686
So the ERC token, the Ethereum tokens that were created is kind of like the second
layer, the layers that you're talking about.

1387
01:26:36,806 --> 01:26:38,766
You can create another coin.

1388
01:26:38,846 --> 01:26:41,606
You can create another thing with its own features.

1389
01:26:41,726 --> 01:26:51,526
But on this network, well, you're turning Bitcoin into Ethereum or the features, you
know, which I don't care, you know, if you can do it, do it, knock yourself out.

1390
01:26:51,526 --> 01:26:53,366
That's what Vitalik was wanting to do.

1391
01:26:53,646 --> 01:26:56,926
So when I have Vitalik on, I'm going, is this what is this?

1392
01:26:56,926 --> 01:26:58,886
This is an operating system.

1393
01:26:59,046 --> 01:27:01,046
Is it a, you know, a blockchain for you?

1394
01:27:01,726 --> 01:27:03,246
What exactly is it?

1395
01:27:03,526 --> 01:27:07,246
Well, he's not the most articulate guy, you know, in the world, but he's very
genius.

1396
01:27:07,366 --> 01:27:13,806
And I couldn't really understand, you know, what his overall goal was.

1397
01:27:14,206 --> 01:27:22,726
But I did understand that some of the features that were allowed in Bitcoin with
these colored coin things, which you can help explain, you know, so I can understand
it.

1398
01:27:22,966 --> 01:27:27,526
But the that seems where you're going with this.

1399
01:27:27,726 --> 01:27:35,966
You're like, you know, we need to have other layers that we can have these other
features that the competition is Ethereum.

1400
01:27:36,366 --> 01:27:39,086
And you're going, Vitalik wanted to do this over here.

1401
01:27:39,206 --> 01:27:40,446
They wouldn't let him screw you.

1402
01:27:40,446 --> 01:27:41,846
He takes his football and goes over there.

1403
01:27:42,286 --> 01:27:45,086
So and been successful in whatever form.

1404
01:27:45,086 --> 01:27:46,766
And, you know, I don't pay attention.

1405
01:27:46,766 --> 01:27:49,646
OK, this is what I'm looking at.

1406
01:27:50,646 --> 01:27:59,726
Describe to me in the audience colored coins in Bitcoin, and we'll see if we can
kind of stitch that into what you're doing, explain that.

1407
01:28:00,366 --> 01:28:06,686
Well, colored coins is this old idea from, I think, 2012 by Manny Rosenfeld, I
think.

1408
01:28:06,686 --> 01:28:19,566
Right. And this was an idea that each, you know, that actually under the hood, the
software keeps track of the like, basically the order of the

1409
01:28:19,566 --> 01:28:21,606
order in which each Satoshi was created.

1410
01:28:21,606 --> 01:28:26,046
And so colored coins kind of became ordinals, Casey Rotemore's thing.

1411
01:28:27,326 --> 01:28:34,726
And and the idea of embedding stuff in the chain that, you know, sort of became
inscriptions.

1412
01:28:35,566 --> 01:28:37,486
So these ideas are actually really, really old.

1413
01:28:38,926 --> 01:28:42,326
And everything that is old will be new again.

1414
01:28:42,406 --> 01:28:49,006
Right. And so I'm not sure how if it has that much to do with what I was talking
about in particular.

1415
01:28:49,806 --> 01:28:57,006
But it is I think all of these things are examples of people trying to tinker and
innovate on BTC.

1416
01:28:57,966 --> 01:29:04,086
And usually if they can do that without harming anyone else, I think that's a very
good thing, because we want.

1417
01:29:05,686 --> 01:29:08,686
The full space of use cases.

1418
01:29:09,966 --> 01:29:17,846
To be explored because we don't want a Peter Schiff to come on and say, well, what
do you do with it, you don't do anything with with the coin, it doesn't do anything.

1419
01:29:19,806 --> 01:29:27,526
So I'm in favor of people using the blockchain for whatever they whatever they can
use it successfully, which includes identity like Namecoin.

1420
01:29:27,846 --> 01:29:29,366
This includes the prediction markets.

1421
01:29:29,366 --> 01:29:35,686
This includes privacy, includes transactions and other types of things.

1422
01:29:35,726 --> 01:29:40,366
So. But, yeah, there's a long history of innovation in BTC.

1423
01:29:40,526 --> 01:29:49,046
I think one difference between this idea and Ethereum is, of course, Ethereum made a
completely new thing with completely new full node software.

1424
01:29:49,046 --> 01:29:56,766
But I'm going to be able to do what I want to do without really changing the L1 that
much.

1425
01:29:57,086 --> 01:29:59,726
So we're hard forking Bitcoin.

1426
01:29:59,766 --> 01:30:03,046
So it's at a certain date, everything was split off.

1427
01:30:03,806 --> 01:30:11,166
But the underlying full node software, that will be really, really similar.

1428
01:30:11,366 --> 01:30:15,286
It would be for a different coin, but it would be very, very similar to to BTC.

1429
01:30:15,366 --> 01:30:24,126
So if you like everything about BTC, you're not going to lose anything by switching
to eCash because you can just go to a smaller block.

1430
01:30:24,606 --> 01:30:27,526
And is that to force an L2 solution?

1431
01:30:27,806 --> 01:30:28,806
I mean, why do that?

1432
01:30:29,886 --> 01:30:41,246
Well, again, the smaller block size has many advantages, including the full node is
easier to sink and it is cheaper and it's easier to hide the location of it.

1433
01:30:41,526 --> 01:30:46,646
And my vision is not, again, like how many.

1434
01:30:47,926 --> 01:30:57,646
How many transactions do you make within the borders of the United States versus
transaction from the United States to like the Eurozone or to Japan?

1435
01:30:58,446 --> 01:31:05,566
And mostly the people in Japan are transacting with themselves and mostly the people
in the United States are transacting with themselves.

1436
01:31:05,806 --> 01:31:09,526
So I imagine that there'll be L2 networks for like each region.

1437
01:31:10,246 --> 01:31:14,686
Those will be very, very high block size and very high transaction throughput.

1438
01:31:15,406 --> 01:31:17,486
But you just won't need as much.

1439
01:31:18,926 --> 01:31:21,406
Transaction bandwidth for because people can net.

1440
01:31:24,006 --> 01:31:30,246
You can have a situation where already in a situation where like thousands of
people, thousands of people can each make.

1441
01:31:31,246 --> 01:31:32,846
Many transactions per day.

1442
01:31:33,846 --> 01:31:37,246
Between the region, so but most normal people won't.

1443
01:31:37,246 --> 01:31:40,046
Most normal people just say, OK, I'm planning a trip to Europe.

1444
01:31:41,086 --> 01:31:46,566
I only need one transaction shifting my US dollars into euros at the beginning.

1445
01:31:47,006 --> 01:31:53,206
And then when I'm at Europe, I'm going to make like who knows how many transactions,
like maybe like 100 transactions.

1446
01:31:54,086 --> 01:31:56,086
And then one transaction shifted back.

1447
01:31:56,086 --> 01:31:59,326
So that's only two that I might need in the whole year.

1448
01:31:59,606 --> 01:32:07,086
So maybe even if I make 10,000 transactions in a year, I may only need two that
shift from which payment network I'm on.

1449
01:32:07,366 --> 01:32:09,646
So the ratio is very low.

1450
01:32:10,886 --> 01:32:12,526
Yeah, but why make the change?

1451
01:32:13,046 --> 01:32:17,606
It's because just more people can run a node on their whatever.

1452
01:32:17,606 --> 01:32:23,566
I mean, the capacity seems with memory and access to processing that it's it's not
that big a deal.

1453
01:32:23,686 --> 01:32:34,046
You're right that in effect, it's already shrunk if you consider the fact that the
hardware speeds have improved and bandwidth has improved.

1454
01:32:34,366 --> 01:32:36,446
So it's kind of shrinking all the time.

1455
01:32:37,326 --> 01:32:42,406
OK, so I think but isn't that an argument that it kind of doesn't matter either way,
which is also what I'm saying?

1456
01:32:43,006 --> 01:32:45,766
Well, you know, I can see where you say that.

1457
01:32:45,846 --> 01:32:47,566
So I'm just going, why would you do it?

1458
01:32:47,606 --> 01:32:53,406
You know, it's just I guess you're saying this is the impression I'm getting.

1459
01:32:53,406 --> 01:32:57,846
You know, for the audience to sum this up all my head, the experience of talking and
not being a geek.

1460
01:32:58,046 --> 01:33:00,966
But, you know, I'm I'm representing grandma, grandpa here.

1461
01:33:00,966 --> 01:33:06,726
OK, you know, so I'm just, you know, explain it to me like I'm like I'm five or one
hundred and five.

1462
01:33:06,726 --> 01:33:07,686
I mean, you know, that kind of.

1463
01:33:08,006 --> 01:33:20,726
So as I'm getting it with the history of Bitcoin comes on scene to have all these
promises and whatever, wasn't as accurate of what they were slinging in the
beginning.

1464
01:33:21,206 --> 01:33:25,206
But you still have this great network ability and it works.

1465
01:33:25,446 --> 01:33:29,086
Well, it's inspires and sponsors a whole bunch of competition.

1466
01:33:29,206 --> 01:33:31,606
All of a sudden there's thousands of these everywhere.

1467
01:33:31,606 --> 01:33:37,726
Oh, my God. So you go, OK, you know, this is one of, you know, Peter Schiff's, you
know, complaints.

1468
01:33:37,726 --> 01:33:41,006
Well, you know, pick one of eight thousand whatever.

1469
01:33:41,006 --> 01:33:41,846
And it doesn't matter.

1470
01:33:41,846 --> 01:33:42,966
They'll just create another one.

1471
01:33:42,966 --> 01:33:45,646
And why would you pick, you know, whatever it's for its features?

1472
01:33:46,126 --> 01:33:51,886
And I go, what is why I always said, what is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin or any
crypto?

1473
01:33:52,206 --> 01:33:53,766
What is it? What's its value?

1474
01:33:54,486 --> 01:34:01,406
It's how much silver and or gold you're willing to give up for its features.

1475
01:34:02,046 --> 01:34:03,526
That's its intrinsic value.

1476
01:34:03,886 --> 01:34:11,606
It is worth this much gold and silver or premium to me to be able to do this thing.

1477
01:34:12,166 --> 01:34:14,926
OK, what are these things that I'm promised?

1478
01:34:14,926 --> 01:34:16,286
Anonymity. Anonymity.

1479
01:34:16,606 --> 01:34:18,006
Nope. That was a lie.

1480
01:34:18,326 --> 01:34:22,886
All right. Speed of transactions gets kind of clogged up.

1481
01:34:23,726 --> 01:34:28,686
And untruth. Privacy, not so much.

1482
01:34:29,126 --> 01:34:31,366
You know, the cost of the transaction.

1483
01:34:31,886 --> 01:34:35,326
And I paid thirty six dollars one time by accident.

1484
01:34:35,646 --> 01:34:36,686
What the crap?

1485
01:34:37,006 --> 01:34:41,806
So I'm going, you know, they're promising me and they're lying sacks of snot.

1486
01:34:42,006 --> 01:34:44,486
OK, well, who's not lying to me?

1487
01:34:44,846 --> 01:34:48,326
How am I able to do this and make and get that?

1488
01:34:48,326 --> 01:34:51,966
Well, here comes Vitalik and they go, you can now we don't want to do that.

1489
01:34:52,086 --> 01:34:53,806
All right, fine. He goes and does Ethereum.

1490
01:34:54,326 --> 01:35:06,006
Here comes Paul. And Paul is going, hey, man, we can just do, you know, L1, L2 and
create a mechanism by which you can have all these solutions that can settle.

1491
01:35:06,766 --> 01:35:14,726
Eventually on the main chain over here, but we could have these other coins out here
operating independently and having their own thing.

1492
01:35:14,886 --> 01:35:18,046
And the benefits would be this, this, this and this.

1493
01:35:18,286 --> 01:35:19,366
And I'm going, OK.

1494
01:35:21,286 --> 01:35:35,806
So in practicality, as I'm looking for what I want, I need to wait for an L2, a
layer that's going to provide whatever features that I want using BTC's network.

1495
01:35:36,006 --> 01:35:38,366
That is there that will keep it number one.

1496
01:35:38,366 --> 01:35:41,166
We're number one. But I want privacy.

1497
01:35:41,246 --> 01:35:43,526
I want speed. I want cheap transactions.

1498
01:35:43,526 --> 01:35:45,246
I want I want I want I want everything.

1499
01:35:45,366 --> 01:35:46,526
Damn it. I was promised.

1500
01:35:46,846 --> 01:35:49,206
It's like why this show is called Declare Your Independence.

1501
01:35:49,326 --> 01:35:51,166
Why? Because that was the deal.

1502
01:35:51,646 --> 01:35:55,366
You know, the Declaration of Independence said the purpose of government will
protect individual rights.

1503
01:35:55,486 --> 01:35:57,206
Doesn't do that. Time to alter, abolish.

1504
01:35:57,326 --> 01:35:58,726
It's your right. It's your duty.

1505
01:35:58,966 --> 01:36:00,006
Boom. Sign me up.

1506
01:36:00,006 --> 01:36:01,726
I'm in. Constitution do that?

1507
01:36:01,766 --> 01:36:06,206
No. Bill of Rights try to, you know, 10 thou shalt not to government.

1508
01:36:06,206 --> 01:36:07,686
We're going to hold it back kind of thing.

1509
01:36:07,926 --> 01:36:12,446
These kinds of conversations have been going on for thousands of years.

1510
01:36:12,566 --> 01:36:13,726
Same kind of thing.

1511
01:36:14,086 --> 01:36:19,566
Then we had, you know, I remember it was from Crossbows to Cryptography.

1512
01:36:19,966 --> 01:36:21,606
Eighty seven, eighty eight.

1513
01:36:21,606 --> 01:36:25,326
It was a article that was like Crossbows Cryptography.

1514
01:36:25,326 --> 01:36:27,206
We what the hell are they talking about?

1515
01:36:27,846 --> 01:36:38,126
The king outlaws crossbows because the plebs, you know, the the the serfs out there
just put a bolt through the armor of some night and go back to plowing.

1516
01:36:38,366 --> 01:36:39,846
You know, we got the technology.

1517
01:36:39,966 --> 01:36:42,286
Screw you. And they go, oh, no, no, no.

1518
01:36:42,286 --> 01:36:45,686
Can't have this decentralized power to oppose us.

1519
01:36:46,366 --> 01:36:48,606
Cryptography represented that.

1520
01:36:48,766 --> 01:36:52,926
This is an article from, you know, you go to the Nakamoto Institute.

1521
01:36:52,926 --> 01:36:55,246
You can see it. Crossbows to Cryptography.

1522
01:36:55,486 --> 01:37:04,126
This was our understanding as young 20 something libertarian, freedom oriented,
leave me alone, anarchist, voluntarist, activist.

1523
01:37:04,566 --> 01:37:07,046
We understood this from the beginning.

1524
01:37:07,566 --> 01:37:08,766
So then it's like 2000.

1525
01:37:08,766 --> 01:37:09,846
They come up with e-gold.

1526
01:37:09,966 --> 01:37:14,526
They deposit gold at Dubai Airport or wherever because they're chasing them out of
London.

1527
01:37:14,686 --> 01:37:19,206
And you could, you know, sell your assets into that and trade digitally gold.

1528
01:37:19,246 --> 01:37:25,006
Boom. Here comes the IRS and they seize and we're got F-16s and you're going to do
it the hell we tell you kind of thing.

1529
01:37:25,446 --> 01:37:26,926
OK. All right.

1530
01:37:27,046 --> 01:37:28,006
It's going to be like that.

1531
01:37:28,006 --> 01:37:28,886
Huh? All right.

1532
01:37:28,926 --> 01:37:31,406
Then you get Liberty Dollar and you're doing silver.

1533
01:37:31,406 --> 01:37:32,846
They go after them.

1534
01:37:32,926 --> 01:37:34,566
You said dollar counterfeit.

1535
01:37:34,566 --> 01:37:35,366
You sons of bitches.

1536
01:37:35,686 --> 01:37:37,046
So then here comes crypto.

1537
01:37:37,326 --> 01:37:39,246
Oh, no third party risk.

1538
01:37:39,406 --> 01:37:40,526
Government be damned.

1539
01:37:40,646 --> 01:37:41,486
Bite me.

1540
01:37:41,606 --> 01:37:42,246
Who did it?

1541
01:37:42,486 --> 01:37:43,366
No idea.

1542
01:37:43,566 --> 01:37:44,726
You know, Satoshi.

1543
01:37:44,726 --> 01:37:45,606
Yeah, it's back.

1544
01:37:45,606 --> 01:37:47,206
You know, I'm going or Bach or whatever.

1545
01:37:47,286 --> 01:37:49,766
I mean, you know, I don't care.

1546
01:37:50,486 --> 01:37:52,366
The technology is going to free me or it's not.

1547
01:37:53,086 --> 01:37:54,446
So I'm going, OK.

1548
01:37:54,566 --> 01:37:55,246
Well, let's see.

1549
01:37:55,246 --> 01:37:56,046
Oh, it does this.

1550
01:37:56,046 --> 01:37:56,526
All right, cool.

1551
01:37:56,526 --> 01:37:57,126
It does this.

1552
01:37:57,126 --> 01:37:57,646
It does it.

1553
01:37:57,806 --> 01:37:58,846
Well, it keeps changing.

1554
01:37:59,606 --> 01:38:07,326
And it wasn't exactly what they say, but it set a possibility in the minds of tech
people to create these things.

1555
01:38:07,326 --> 01:38:08,526
Multisign contracts.

1556
01:38:08,726 --> 01:38:10,046
It started getting the privacy.

1557
01:38:10,166 --> 01:38:12,406
You're starting to get into speed and cheapness.

1558
01:38:12,406 --> 01:38:13,526
And all that. All right.

1559
01:38:13,766 --> 01:38:19,486
Competition, like you say, good Rockefeller, as he say, competition is a sin.

1560
01:38:19,886 --> 01:38:25,806
Well, I see these guys all through the BTC maximal list of the Bank of Goldman Sachs
dot gov coin.

1561
01:38:25,886 --> 01:38:27,126
I see it everywhere.

1562
01:38:27,126 --> 01:38:29,686
And it was obvious from the beginning.

1563
01:38:30,366 --> 01:38:33,646
I'm going, when you get block streaming, I go here.

1564
01:38:33,646 --> 01:38:38,926
We have chairman of Bilderberg twice is now funding.

1565
01:38:39,046 --> 01:38:42,886
And then we find out it's got Epstein smeared all over it.

1566
01:38:43,526 --> 01:38:45,886
I'm going, what do you think was going to happen?

1567
01:38:46,326 --> 01:38:47,846
Then you get the stable coin thing.

1568
01:38:48,086 --> 01:38:49,966
Here we have the Trump administration.

1569
01:38:50,126 --> 01:38:52,406
The Trump sons are all cryptoed up.

1570
01:38:52,486 --> 01:38:55,446
You had the Winklevai back in the day, Gemini doing.

1571
01:38:55,446 --> 01:38:56,686
We got to have an ETF.

1572
01:38:57,366 --> 01:38:58,526
ETFs make it go up.

1573
01:38:59,126 --> 01:39:01,646
All that I don't give a shit about.

1574
01:39:01,806 --> 01:39:03,166
That was not the point.

1575
01:39:03,566 --> 01:39:08,646
It was peer to peer digital cash.

1576
01:39:09,246 --> 01:39:15,326
And we've been supporting this and thinking about it and whatever for 30, 40 years.

1577
01:39:15,366 --> 01:39:16,126
I'm an old guy.

1578
01:39:16,166 --> 01:39:16,846
Oh, gee.

1579
01:39:17,566 --> 01:39:19,406
So obviously I pay attention.

1580
01:39:19,766 --> 01:39:21,286
I'm looking for the traits.

1581
01:39:21,886 --> 01:39:24,006
Paul, we're introduced to you.

1582
01:39:24,006 --> 01:39:29,926
You come on, you go, all right, we're going to do a hard fork, a Bitcoin to provide
a

1583
01:39:29,926 --> 01:39:36,286
layer, an interface, a meshing with another, any other layers, kind of like ERC
tokens

1584
01:39:36,286 --> 01:39:38,926
or whatever you guys out there go fix it.

1585
01:39:39,126 --> 01:39:43,246
And we provide on off ramp and we're going to be able to solve.

1586
01:39:43,246 --> 01:39:44,846
You can solve your own damn problem.

1587
01:39:44,926 --> 01:39:46,366
And we're going to do this.

1588
01:39:46,486 --> 01:39:49,046
And what does the BTC guys got to bitch about?

1589
01:39:49,166 --> 01:39:52,206
Because they get Eagle eCash anyway.

1590
01:39:52,566 --> 01:39:53,966
Right. So I'm going, all right.

1591
01:39:54,126 --> 01:39:55,206
How far off am I?

1592
01:39:57,486 --> 01:39:58,686
I think that's pretty close.

1593
01:39:59,446 --> 01:40:01,046
I'm going to have to go pretty soon.

1594
01:40:01,806 --> 01:40:04,606
This has been really, really good, but I'll try to sneak in some last points.

1595
01:40:05,646 --> 01:40:06,846
I've had a great time.

1596
01:40:07,112 --> 01:40:18,112
But I think, okay, with respect to Bilderberg and Blockstream and Jeffrey Epstein
and all this other stuff, I think if we had the right amount of competition, it
wouldn't matter, like who invested in what, you know what I mean?

1597
01:40:18,112 --> 01:40:25,112
Because it would just be someone put out this software and then you would say, well,
wait a minute, I'm paying a $36 fee.

1598
01:40:26,112 --> 01:40:41,112
Then someone else would put out, okay, well, here's my version of the software where
you don't pay a $36 fee, but it takes up more hard drive space on your hard drive.
And you think, oh, okay, that's fine. Or they say some other thing.

1599
01:40:41,112 --> 01:40:54,112
The reason why we don't have that competition is because it's very difficult to
create a new full node software without creating a completely new coin.

1600
01:40:54,112 --> 01:41:00,112
So now we have the competition, but we have all these 6 million altcoins, and that's
what Peter Schiff complains about.

1601
01:41:00,112 --> 01:41:13,112
And the point of this project is to try to address both concerns to some extent
simultaneously and say, well, listen, if there's an issue, anyone can ship the new
version.

1602
01:41:13,112 --> 01:41:21,112
And so even if the 100% of the developers are evil on the L1, it shouldn't matter
because the user can just escape the L2.

1603
01:41:21,112 --> 01:41:31,112
I think a lot of it is hard to understand, but people could download our test
software if they feel comfortable running software in their computer, which you
should always be cautious about.

1604
01:41:31,112 --> 01:41:44,112
But if you download our test software, it will give you fake coins, play money, and
you can kind of get an idea of exactly what it is that my vision for how all this
should really work.

1605
01:41:44,112 --> 01:41:49,112
And that would give people some idea of what's actually going on here.

1606
01:41:49,112 --> 01:41:51,112
Well, nobody can stop you.

1607
01:41:51,112 --> 01:41:54,112
I mean, come August, you got it right there.

1608
01:41:54,112 --> 01:41:55,112
Peace out.

1609
01:41:55,112 --> 01:41:56,112
We're done.

1610
01:41:56,112 --> 01:41:57,112
Use it.

1611
01:41:57,112 --> 01:41:58,112
Don't use it.

1612
01:41:58,112 --> 01:41:59,112
Bitch.

1613
01:41:59,112 --> 01:42:00,112
Don't bitch.

1614
01:42:00,112 --> 01:42:01,112
More attention.

1615
01:42:01,112 --> 01:42:02,112
Knock stuff out.

1616
01:42:02,112 --> 01:42:03,112
Some people say that.

1617
01:42:03,112 --> 01:42:04,112
Yes.

1618
01:42:04,112 --> 01:42:07,112
So this is, and the proof is in the pudding, man.

1619
01:42:07,112 --> 01:42:09,112
I mean, it's either going to do it or it's not.

1620
01:42:09,112 --> 01:42:12,112
But you're not offering a solution right away.

1621
01:42:12,112 --> 01:42:16,112
You're offering an option to create a solution and interface.

1622
01:42:16,112 --> 01:42:17,112
We are shipping also.

1623
01:42:17,112 --> 01:42:19,112
We're giving the starter pack.

1624
01:42:19,112 --> 01:42:22,112
So I think scale and privacy we're going to have nailed.

1625
01:42:22,112 --> 01:42:28,112
And I think a lot of the other stuff will be on the way, like the identity, assets,
prediction markets.

1626
01:42:29,112 --> 01:42:30,112
You can download that now.

1627
01:42:30,112 --> 01:42:34,112
You can try that now and you see it's kind of good, but it's not 100% there.

1628
01:42:34,112 --> 01:42:37,112
So what is the response from the Bitcoin maximalist of what you're doing?

1629
01:42:37,112 --> 01:42:38,112
I don't know.

1630
01:42:38,112 --> 01:42:40,112
I just put it out this morning.

1631
01:42:40,112 --> 01:42:46,112
But I think, again, I think there's a difference between the – if you ship an
alternative,

1632
01:42:46,112 --> 01:42:52,112
if you ship a hard fork, you're saying to the owners that you'll respect their
investment.

1633
01:42:52,112 --> 01:42:56,112
Because you're saying, oh, if you bought 17 Bitcoin, so to speak, you get 17 of
this.

1634
01:42:56,112 --> 01:42:57,112
You get more.

1635
01:42:57,112 --> 01:43:00,112
The more Bitcoin you own, the more you get.

1636
01:43:00,112 --> 01:43:06,112
So when you do the hard fork, you're respecting the owner.

1637
01:43:06,112 --> 01:43:11,112
But you don't necessarily respect like the Bitcoin podcaster or whatever because
everyone's got like their own little book.

1638
01:43:11,112 --> 01:43:17,112
Like Safetine's got his book and everyone's got their own little story about like
how Bitcoin is supposed to work.

1639
01:43:17,112 --> 01:43:25,112
And so – and of course people have been trained to just react with like hatred of
anything new.

1640
01:43:26,112 --> 01:43:28,112
And so they don't like when anyone leaves the cult.

1641
01:43:28,112 --> 01:43:31,112
They just think like, well, this must be the worst person in the whole world.

1642
01:43:31,112 --> 01:43:33,112
Of course, it's partly that attitude.

1643
01:43:33,112 --> 01:43:39,112
If the Bitcoin were so strong, there would be no need to have a defensive reaction.

1644
01:43:39,112 --> 01:43:42,112
So a lot of it is kind of a bit of a circus.

1645
01:43:42,112 --> 01:43:43,112
So I don't know.

1646
01:43:43,112 --> 01:43:52,112
But I'm sure probably a lot of people are very excited because I know that secretly
a lot of people realize that there are very serious problems in Bitcoin.

1647
01:43:52,112 --> 01:43:59,112
Because I've gone to this – I've been a part of the community 24-7 for the last like
15 years.

1648
01:43:59,112 --> 01:44:03,112
So I know a lot of people will be excited and optimistic.

1649
01:44:03,112 --> 01:44:13,112
I'm sure there will be a lot of people who have like fake – they have like a fake
username and a cartoon character Twitter profile picture who will – they won't like
this.

1650
01:44:13,112 --> 01:44:25,112
But the thing is those people didn't like when I proposed BIP300 on Bitcoin itself,
which is just giving this idea away completely for free, not as a hard fork, and not
even as a soft fork.

1651
01:44:25,112 --> 01:44:35,112
It did something called the Core Untouched Soft Fork where it didn't change any
lines of code in Bitcoin core, and it would still activate BIP300.

1652
01:44:35,112 --> 01:44:43,112
So when I proposed that idea, a lot of people still didn't like that even though it
was completely opt-in, reversible, ignorable soft fork.

1653
01:44:43,112 --> 01:44:47,112
This is the question before you go along this line.

1654
01:44:47,112 --> 01:44:54,112
The opposition to what you're doing is coming from what special interest?

1655
01:44:54,112 --> 01:44:56,112
Is it institutionalization?

1656
01:44:56,112 --> 01:44:57,112
Is it wallets?

1657
01:44:57,112 --> 01:44:58,112
Is it miners?

1658
01:44:58,112 --> 01:44:59,112
Is it users?

1659
01:44:59,112 --> 01:45:01,112
Is it government?

1660
01:45:01,112 --> 01:45:02,112
Government approval?

1661
01:45:02,112 --> 01:45:04,112
Government integration?

1662
01:45:04,112 --> 01:45:06,112
Going in with stable coins?

1663
01:45:06,112 --> 01:45:10,112
Treasury Department of you're not allowed in the SEC or you're doing it wrong?

1664
01:45:10,112 --> 01:45:20,112
I mean a lot of the opposition to this stuff, it seems to me, comes from those that,
hey, you're messing with us shoehorning into the legacy banking system, dummy.

1665
01:45:20,112 --> 01:45:22,112
We need to shoehorn it.

1666
01:45:22,112 --> 01:45:23,112
We need to integrate.

1667
01:45:23,112 --> 01:45:27,112
We need JD Vance to come to our conference and lay hands on it, and you're messing
with that.

1668
01:45:27,112 --> 01:45:29,112
Is that the opposition?

1669
01:45:29,112 --> 01:45:30,112
I think you're right.

1670
01:45:30,112 --> 01:45:37,112
So there's a group like that who I think they don't want privacy on Bitcoin, and
they don't really want anyone thinking about it.

1671
01:45:37,112 --> 01:45:43,112
That's kind of like how normally no one does anything too inspiring in a casino
because you don't come there to be inspired.

1672
01:45:43,112 --> 01:45:48,112
It's appropriate that the Las Vegas is the conference venue, but it's like, you know
what I mean?

1673
01:45:48,112 --> 01:45:53,112
I don't think they play Bach in a casino, like the music or something.

1674
01:45:53,112 --> 01:45:55,112
It's a different mode.

1675
01:45:55,112 --> 01:46:05,112
So I think there are a lot of people who are like, yeah, we want this to be tame,
and we don't want it to be subversive, and we want it to just be very, very, very,
very, very simple.

1676
01:46:05,112 --> 01:46:08,112
We don't want it to change a lot because if it changes, then we'll have to.

1677
01:46:08,112 --> 01:46:17,112
There'll be expertise involved in explaining what it is and what it can do, and
maybe it will change further, even though the soft fork isn't a change.

1678
01:46:17,112 --> 01:46:18,112
So there is a group like that.

1679
01:46:18,112 --> 01:46:29,112
I think the second group is anyone who's invested too much in the Lightning Network
or too much in just becoming a Bitcoin core developer, in quotes, because I don't
even think that means anything anymore.

1680
01:46:29,112 --> 01:46:39,112
But there's like a technical insider group that I think they may be either jealous
or envious, or it might make them look bad by comparison.

1681
01:46:39,112 --> 01:46:49,112
A lot of people have invested a lot of time and money and expertise in competing,
scaling ideas, Lightning Network, and it's just one example.

1682
01:46:49,112 --> 01:46:52,112
But there's also like ARK and Fediment and all this stuff.

1683
01:46:52,112 --> 01:46:55,112
I'm not sure how they would react to this.

1684
01:46:56,112 --> 01:47:03,112
There is an institutional resistance to this kind of stuff because there is an
overall goal of the integration in with the legacy system.

1685
01:47:03,112 --> 01:47:06,112
That is the ultimate goal that you've got.

1686
01:47:06,112 --> 01:47:07,112
Whoa, this thing's working.

1687
01:47:07,112 --> 01:47:13,112
Here comes Blockstream, you know, the cash trees, Epstein and Co and whatever's
behind that.

1688
01:47:13,112 --> 01:47:15,112
Here it comes.

1689
01:47:15,112 --> 01:47:19,112
And when you do this, if it interferes with that, there's going to be opposition.

1690
01:47:20,112 --> 01:47:25,112
And I wanted to understand who we're up against and what we're trying to solve.

1691
01:47:25,112 --> 01:47:33,112
So what you're trying to solve is not necessarily you're given a package, you're
given some, you know, alternative for some privacy and scalability or whatever
you're doing.

1692
01:47:33,112 --> 01:47:39,112
But the main thing that you're doing is the concept of creating other layers that
can do a bunch of different things.

1693
01:47:39,112 --> 01:47:40,112
Peace out.

1694
01:47:40,112 --> 01:47:41,112
Go do it.

1695
01:47:41,112 --> 01:47:43,112
We created the mechanism for you to do it.

1696
01:47:43,112 --> 01:47:46,112
Right.

1697
01:47:46,112 --> 01:47:47,112
Right.

1698
01:47:47,112 --> 01:47:49,112
Yeah, it's supposed to be kind of complaint proof.

1699
01:47:49,112 --> 01:47:52,112
Of course, we're not going to achieve that.

1700
01:47:52,112 --> 01:48:02,112
But if you – sorry, if you think about it, people who want – people who like Bitcoin
Core, they get what they want on the L1.

1701
01:48:02,112 --> 01:48:06,112
And people who like large blocks, they can get those.

1702
01:48:06,112 --> 01:48:09,112
And people who like privacy can get – so everyone should be able to get what they
want.

1703
01:48:09,112 --> 01:48:19,112
Of course, when you give everyone what they want, it probably will result in the
most complaining of all because sometimes what people want is just a kind of
behavior.

1704
01:48:19,112 --> 01:48:20,112
They want a monopoly.

1705
01:48:20,112 --> 01:48:21,112
They want control.

1706
01:48:21,112 --> 01:48:23,112
They want it to be what they want.

1707
01:48:23,112 --> 01:48:28,112
And I paid for it and damn it, an institution, and you got a permit and a permission
slip from the crown.

1708
01:48:28,112 --> 01:48:29,112
I get it.

1709
01:48:29,112 --> 01:48:31,112
Which side are you on?

1710
01:48:31,112 --> 01:48:33,112
So that's what we're trying to find out.

1711
01:48:34,112 --> 01:48:40,112
We're going to be – before you do your launch in August, we'll come back and we'll
talk about and see where we're at.

1712
01:48:40,112 --> 01:48:42,112
And you just launched it.

1713
01:48:42,112 --> 01:48:48,112
Thank you for putting up with my freaking why, why, why, why, what, when, how kind
of man.

1714
01:48:48,112 --> 01:48:50,112
I think we got a beat on it.

1715
01:48:50,112 --> 01:48:52,112
But it's – and it is interesting.

1716
01:48:53,112 --> 01:49:04,112
And this is where if Vitalik, you know, was, I don't know, able to be influential
with Bitcoin or whatever, this might have been what would have happened, something
like this,

1717
01:49:04,112 --> 01:49:07,112
where Vitalik was, you know, wanting to have a lot of these other features.

1718
01:49:07,112 --> 01:49:08,112
Ah, screw it.

1719
01:49:08,112 --> 01:49:10,112
I take my football and go over here.

1720
01:49:10,112 --> 01:49:19,112
Well, you're using the network ability and the size of Bitcoin to be able to offer
these things because I remember the color coin thing.

1721
01:49:19,112 --> 01:49:21,112
So there's options.

1722
01:49:21,112 --> 01:49:24,112
But somebody didn't want to have this innovation.

1723
01:49:24,112 --> 01:49:26,112
Somebody did not want the privacy.

1724
01:49:26,112 --> 01:49:28,112
They did not want the scalability.

1725
01:49:28,112 --> 01:49:30,112
They did not want – for what reason?

1726
01:49:30,112 --> 01:49:32,112
For them to create their own whatever the hell.

1727
01:49:32,112 --> 01:49:33,112
Well, if you make it –

1728
01:49:33,112 --> 01:49:35,112
Well, I think life has always been difficult for innovation, right?

1729
01:49:35,112 --> 01:49:40,112
You stick your neck out for something new and it's inevitable that it will make some
people upset.

1730
01:49:40,112 --> 01:49:50,112
Well, I'm glad that we're having some competition and creation of, you know, the
thought process of going through what can be done.

1731
01:49:50,112 --> 01:49:54,112
Because sooner or later, there's going to be something or a bunch of somethings.

1732
01:49:54,112 --> 01:50:03,112
I'm not looking for Sam Altman staring at this globe, you know, retina scan to get
your world coin of whatever, which is common, okay?

1733
01:50:03,112 --> 01:50:12,112
I mean, these guys, they're sociopathic, centralized, we rule you, got your DNA, you
know, and your retina scan people.

1734
01:50:12,112 --> 01:50:13,112
Oh, my God.

1735
01:50:13,112 --> 01:50:16,112
And any competition with that, it's cool by me.

1736
01:50:16,112 --> 01:50:28,112
But they're going to come after you because I see that you're breaking away from the
plan of the institutionalized whatever the hell GoldmanSucks.gov coin.

1737
01:50:28,112 --> 01:50:35,112
And that is going to be very telling of who, what, and how hard they come after you
after today.

1738
01:50:35,112 --> 01:50:39,112
And I have Roger on after he does hijacking Bitcoin.

1739
01:50:39,112 --> 01:50:41,112
Boom, he gets arrested in Spain.

1740
01:50:41,112 --> 01:50:47,112
I have, you know, Eric Voorhees on talking about whatever.

1741
01:50:47,112 --> 01:50:49,112
Boom, he gets fined, whatever.

1742
01:50:49,112 --> 01:50:50,112
So you're in trouble.

1743
01:50:50,112 --> 01:50:52,112
You came on to declare your independence.

1744
01:50:52,112 --> 01:50:53,112
I'm just saying, you know.

1745
01:50:53,112 --> 01:50:55,112
You want it, here it comes.

1746
01:50:55,112 --> 01:50:57,112
You're going to get the attention.

1747
01:50:57,112 --> 01:51:02,112
But I'm here just as a regular grandpa kind of wanting to be free.

1748
01:51:02,112 --> 01:51:04,112
Are you going to help provide that?

1749
01:51:04,112 --> 01:51:06,112
Well, we're going to find out.

1750
01:51:06,112 --> 01:51:09,112
And you're putting a mechanism out there for other people to develop it.

1751
01:51:09,112 --> 01:51:10,112
I get it.

1752
01:51:10,112 --> 01:51:11,112
August.

1753
01:51:11,112 --> 01:51:14,112
We're going to be doing another show if you're not in jail.

1754
01:51:14,112 --> 01:51:17,112
No good deed goes unpunished, right?

1755
01:51:17,112 --> 01:51:20,112
So we're going to go ahead and follow this.

1756
01:51:20,112 --> 01:51:21,112
Paul, thanks for it.

1757
01:51:21,112 --> 01:51:22,112
Thank you.

1758
01:51:22,112 --> 01:51:23,112
Sztorc.

1759
01:51:23,112 --> 01:51:24,112
Yes.

1760
01:51:24,112 --> 01:51:25,112
Did I say it right?

1761
01:51:25,112 --> 01:51:26,112
Yes.

1762
01:51:26,112 --> 01:51:27,112
Well, thanks for coming on.

1763
01:51:27,112 --> 01:51:28,112
Thanks for having me.

1764
01:51:28,112 --> 01:51:31,112
You go to eCash.com.

1765
01:51:31,112 --> 01:51:32,112
That's right.

1766
01:51:32,112 --> 01:51:35,112
eCash.com, and you get to this page.

1767
01:51:35,112 --> 01:51:36,112
It looks like this.

1768
01:51:36,112 --> 01:51:37,112
And there's a countdown.

1769
01:51:37,112 --> 01:51:38,112
That's right.

1770
01:51:38,112 --> 01:51:40,112
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

1771
01:51:40,112 --> 01:51:42,112
It's an ominous countdown, but there's still plenty of time.

1772
01:51:42,112 --> 01:51:45,112
The summer just barely started, so plenty of time.

1773
01:51:45,112 --> 01:51:49,112
Well, to even get it, I've got to wait until it comes online in the secondary
market,

1774
01:51:49,112 --> 01:51:55,112
or I have to go buy BTC to get my eCash.

1775
01:51:55,112 --> 01:51:56,112
Right.

1776
01:51:56,112 --> 01:51:57,112
There's a little more to it.

1777
01:51:57,112 --> 01:51:58,112
Sure.

1778
01:51:58,112 --> 01:51:59,112
But I have to go now, though.

1779
01:51:59,112 --> 01:52:00,112
All right.

1780
01:52:00,112 --> 01:52:01,112
Peace, brother.

1781
01:52:01,112 --> 01:52:02,112
We'll be back.

1782
01:52:02,112 --> 01:52:03,112
Thanks for coming on.

1783
01:52:03,112 --> 01:52:04,112
We got a lot of it.

1784
01:52:04,112 --> 01:52:05,112
Look forward to talking to you.

1785
01:52:05,112 --> 01:52:06,112
Thank you.

1786
01:52:06,112 --> 01:52:07,112
Okay, thanks.

1787
01:52:07,112 --> 01:52:07,716
Bye.