1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,480 What up, Vigilantes? It is my pleasure to be here with you today with the one and only 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:20,720 Paul Sztorc. And yeah, Paul, how's it going? What are you up to these days? 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,760 It's going good. How are you? 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:28,460 I'm doing great. Actually, I'm pretty happy with what you're up to these days. And so 5 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:31,420 I think it's time for you to tell the world what's up, what's going on. 6 00:00:32,980 --> 00:00:35,740 Yeah, you're referring to my hard fork of Bitcoin. 7 00:00:35,860 --> 00:00:41,940 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So wait, so you're hard forking Bitcoin? What does that 8 00:00:41,940 --> 00:00:42,700 mean? What are you doing? 9 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:50,620 Yeah, I mean, it's funny because in 2017, everyone knew about this, but maybe people 10 00:00:50,620 --> 00:00:54,540 don't know about it anymore. But yeah, it's very easy. Anyone can do this where you 11 00:00:54,980 --> 00:01:00,700 publish a new version of Bitcoin and then on a certain date, any BTC you own just splits 12 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:05,300 into two coins, the original BTC and then a new coin. 13 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:07,500 So that's what's going to happen this August. 14 00:01:09,260 --> 00:01:11,140 Awesome. Well, congratulations. 15 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:16,420 You know, I was having a conversation about this with someone not too long ago, and he 16 00:01:16,420 --> 00:01:22,220 said something very keen in our conversation, and I honestly don't want to paraphrase 17 00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:24,700 him because I guess I have no choice. 18 00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:30,900 He said something on the lines of if people really cared about Bitcoin, they'd be hard 19 00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:32,180 forking it all the time. 20 00:01:33,980 --> 00:01:35,500 And I'm like, you know what? You're right, man. 21 00:01:36,140 --> 00:01:38,940 It's true because the hard fork just gives everyone free money. 22 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:44,780 And so the question is, why is it so controversial and why don't we do it all the 23 00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:49,260 time? And I think it just has to do with historically what happened with Bitcoin. 24 00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:50,940 Cash was the first hard fork. 25 00:01:51,500 --> 00:01:53,180 It used the Bitcoin name. 26 00:01:53,180 --> 00:01:58,860 And then there was a lot about like Roger Veer owned Bitcoin.com and he was promoting 27 00:01:58,860 --> 00:02:00,620 Bitcoin Cash as the real Bitcoin. 28 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:03,660 So I don't know if that, to what extent that contributed. 29 00:02:03,660 --> 00:02:09,180 But for whatever reason, this idea in the past has been very, very, very unpopular. 30 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:13,940 And even today, when people are making fun of Luke or whatever, Luke Dashjr. 31 00:02:13,940 --> 00:02:18,060 and they say his BIP110 isn't going to go anywhere, they say have fun, you know, hard 32 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:20,220 fork, leave the network or whatever. 33 00:02:20,220 --> 00:02:25,460 Because you kind of get cast out of the community because you're starting a competing 34 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:30,900 community. I think all of this is related to a couple easily fixable problems with the 35 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:37,060 hard fork. One, you just don't get caught up on the name, make your own brand, your own 36 00:02:37,060 --> 00:02:41,660 name. So the name for this project is eCash, eCash.com. 37 00:02:42,660 --> 00:02:43,940 So I'm happy about that. 38 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:51,460 And another issue with the, you know, I think it has a lot of stigma at first because it 39 00:02:51,460 --> 00:02:54,380 tries to hit the ground running on day one. 40 00:02:54,380 --> 00:02:57,500 But on day one, everyone has equal ownership in each. 41 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:01,140 So you kind of had a big disadvantage on day one. 42 00:03:01,140 --> 00:03:05,460 But I've tried to fix that by just making sure on day one, when this launches, it has a 43 00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:07,300 bunch of cool stuff ready to go. 44 00:03:07,380 --> 00:03:08,860 It's been tested for a long time. 45 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:11,860 So we wanted to figure it out like after the fork date. 46 00:03:12,860 --> 00:03:19,660 So this is technology that you guys have been working on for like over a decade now, over 47 00:03:19,660 --> 00:03:26,180 10 years. Can you tell us about this technology and how is this, how does this mutate 48 00:03:26,180 --> 00:03:28,620 Bitcoin? What does this mutate Bitcoin into? 49 00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:37,260 Right. Yeah, this technology is called Drivechain and it is more than, it was November 50 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:39,620 2015 when I first published it. 51 00:03:40,540 --> 00:03:45,180 You know, it's just kicked around as like an idea for a while and then did a little bit of 52 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:50,820 work on it here and there and kind of picked it up, set it back down for a while. 53 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:57,860 I just really thought, OK, maybe the Lightning Network will work out or maybe even one of 54 00:03:57,860 --> 00:04:00,580 the other altcoins will show some promise. 55 00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:07,500 Or Bitcoin Cash or another Bitcoin hard fork might do well and might show it like light 56 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:12,180 the way, so to speak, and we could have all these people trying different things and we 57 00:04:12,180 --> 00:04:14,540 would be able to see for ourselves if any of them worked. 58 00:04:15,740 --> 00:04:20,260 But actually, really, it's been a bigger disaster than I could have anticipated and 59 00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:24,460 including Lightning Network and including Bitcoin Core and just make so many bizarre 60 00:04:24,460 --> 00:04:33,940 decisions. So I think this one idea, the Drivechain idea, since it creates competition 61 00:04:33,940 --> 00:04:40,180 among L2s, it really solves a lot of important problems at once, in particular, the 62 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:44,780 problem of what to do if the developers, you know, make a mistake or they're just lazy or 63 00:04:44,780 --> 00:04:46,780 they just do anything wrong. 64 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:48,780 So you can always escape to an L2. 65 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:57,940 So how is an L2 different with eCash than with Bitcoin as it exists now? 66 00:04:58,780 --> 00:05:05,500 Yeah, unfortunately, with Bitcoin as it exists now, the main L2 is the Lightning Network. 67 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:14,380 And it's more not only does the Lightning Network not work, but it kind of, you know, 68 00:05:14,380 --> 00:05:15,380 Lightning not work. 69 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:16,420 That's what that should be called. 70 00:05:16,420 --> 00:05:24,060 But it's like it also sucks all the oxygen out of the room where it just makes it so you 71 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:26,340 can't even talk about different types of L2s. 72 00:05:26,660 --> 00:05:30,420 Even all the L2s that are being discussed, none of them are merged mine. 73 00:05:30,820 --> 00:05:35,860 That's a big difference between mine are very much just like a normal blockchain that 74 00:05:35,860 --> 00:05:39,660 happens to be like an optional L2 block space. 75 00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:47,180 And the ones that are favored in the BTC Bitcoin community are like, you know, this 76 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:50,260 weird Lightning Network, ARK, Liquid. 77 00:05:50,260 --> 00:05:55,780 These are things where the transaction fees are collected by like a private party, 78 00:05:55,780 --> 00:06:01,580 Lightning service provider, the ARK Supernode, or like a wallet controlled by Blockstream. 79 00:06:01,780 --> 00:06:07,260 All of those, I think, are complete non-starters and they're not going to work. 80 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:10,780 And we even mostly see them not working. 81 00:06:10,780 --> 00:06:16,260 And even I gave this debate at TabConf a few months ago, and I debated an entire room of 82 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:17,500 people about the Lightning Network. 83 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:21,460 And many of them just came up on stage to say that they mostly agreed with what I had 84 00:06:21,460 --> 00:06:25,020 to say. So I don't even consider myself to be an expert on Lightning. 85 00:06:25,020 --> 00:06:30,940 But. All right, all the Maxis watching this are probably like, well, we're just going to 86 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:31,940 dump your coin. 87 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:38,740 It's just going to be another shit coin and Bitcoin will continue on being as it is. 88 00:06:39,380 --> 00:06:40,620 What do you say to that? 89 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:44,780 Because that's that's that's like the knee jerk sentiment that I expect them to have. 90 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:51,900 It's definitely an appropriate thing to think like if you've only heard about the idea for 91 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:53,220 like 10 or 15 seconds. 92 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:58,140 That's part of why I'm giving people like four months advance notice, because I think we 93 00:06:58,140 --> 00:07:02,980 want to draw a wedge between the people who actually look into things and the people who 94 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:04,620 just do a knee jerk reaction. 95 00:07:04,820 --> 00:07:10,620 This is also, I think, part of the problem with the doing the pure hard fork anyway, is 96 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:17,820 that if you think about it, a pure hard fork like where I just say I'm tomorrow or a hard 97 00:07:17,820 --> 00:07:25,260 fork today or tomorrow with no advance notice and no advance work or preparation, that's 98 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:29,940 kind of asking everyone to make a knee jerk reaction like really soon without having 99 00:07:29,940 --> 00:07:31,180 enough time to think about it. 100 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:34,740 But yeah, I think this is an appropriate thing to think like immediately. 101 00:07:35,140 --> 00:07:37,300 But if you look deeper. 102 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:44,900 You know, there are a lot of really severe problems with with Bitcoin and so like the 103 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:48,500 blocks are basically empty and the fees are very low. 104 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:50,900 So this speaks to very few users. 105 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:58,220 That miners are all going bankrupt or pivoting to AI and like that. 106 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:01,140 Many developers are very frustrated. 107 00:08:01,180 --> 00:08:05,860 They can't get they either can't get stuff that they want. 108 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:07,660 They can't work on things that they want to work. 109 00:08:07,660 --> 00:08:10,460 These are like super geniuses like Jeremy Rubin or whatever. 110 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:12,580 We can't even get something like OP_CAT. 111 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:14,220 It's 13 lines of code. 112 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:16,180 It was in the original client for years. 113 00:08:16,660 --> 00:08:17,860 It doesn't really do anything. 114 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:20,060 Yet it has all these benefits. 115 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:24,220 It's an opt in, ignorable, reversible, soft fork. 116 00:08:25,260 --> 00:08:30,300 There's literally not a single reason, you know, on earth that it wouldn't be just sale 117 00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:33,060 right through the process. But the process doesn't let something like that in. 118 00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:35,020 It doesn't let BIP300 in. 119 00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:39,420 It doesn't let like and then you have this opera turn drama. 120 00:08:39,460 --> 00:08:41,260 So the development scene is bad. 121 00:08:41,300 --> 00:08:42,340 The user scene is bad. 122 00:08:42,340 --> 00:08:43,420 The mining scene is bad. 123 00:08:43,660 --> 00:08:49,860 Even the owners as an investment, it really hasn't even done that that well recently. 124 00:08:50,380 --> 00:08:56,460 Michael Saylor himself, you can go to SaylorTracker.org, I think he's only up his 125 00:08:56,460 --> 00:08:58,180 entire lifetime investment in Bitcoin. 126 00:08:58,180 --> 00:09:01,060 He's only up like maybe like zero percent. 127 00:09:01,060 --> 00:09:02,700 It depends on the day. Sometimes he's down. 128 00:09:02,980 --> 00:09:10,180 Yeah, I've done better holding Monero since the Bitcoin civil war in 2017 than I have 129 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:13,100 if I would have just stayed Bitcoin Maxi and BTC. 130 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:18,380 So I think the biggest problem is that we've started lying to ourselves on a massive 131 00:09:18,380 --> 00:09:20,700 scale and the Lightning Network is part of that. 132 00:09:22,020 --> 00:09:27,980 It's a very easy to see part, especially because I did the debate, but you said you 133 00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:29,620 would post in the comments below. 134 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:33,820 But there's a lot of other things where it's just like what the stuff that we do just 135 00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:34,980 doesn't make any sense. 136 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:37,980 And I just know too much about it. 137 00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:41,020 And I've been I've been a member of the community for like 15 years. 138 00:09:41,660 --> 00:09:47,140 And, you know, I've been speaking at technical events and things, so it's not. 139 00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:53,540 If there are problems and we are working to fix those problems and that's fine, but if 140 00:09:53,540 --> 00:10:00,220 everyone is just this is part of the complacency that you you mentioned before, people 141 00:10:00,220 --> 00:10:01,780 just think Bitcoin's indestructible. 142 00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:05,700 So I'll just take free coins and sell to get more BTC. 143 00:10:05,860 --> 00:10:08,500 I think if that's what you want to do, then I encourage you to do that. 144 00:10:08,980 --> 00:10:15,300 And, you know, I you know, I really can't see how anyone can be, quote unquote, 145 00:10:15,620 --> 00:10:21,300 dismissive of you because you are someone who's been very close to BTC, very close to 146 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:22,340 Bitcoin development. 147 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:30,540 And who's friends with everyone in the core team, I mean, you're you're very likable 148 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:35,020 person in Bitcoin and you've contributed a lot to the network. 149 00:10:35,060 --> 00:10:43,700 So at the very least, I think that the Bitcoin community will have to take take you 150 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:50,780 serious. It's not that I personally don't see how they can just dismiss this hard fork 151 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:55,980 as as, you know, the Bitcoin cash fork was something that was. 152 00:10:57,580 --> 00:11:04,380 Very contentious and yes, it was easy to get toxic over, but now we're talking about 153 00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:10,860 something that has been that you did provide to the Bitcoin community as a Bitcoin 154 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:14,100 improvement proposal as a BIP, BIP300, BIP301. 155 00:11:14,580 --> 00:11:17,180 And so let's talk about that. 156 00:11:17,180 --> 00:11:23,340 Like how why why don't you just continue on in pursuing the adoption of BIP300 and BIP 157 00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:24,820 301 within Bitcoin? 158 00:11:26,660 --> 00:11:31,620 Well, it's difficult to know what where what else I could even do at this point, because 159 00:11:32,220 --> 00:11:39,460 I wrote the BIPs and I replied to a lot of feedback and we even had like one of our chief 160 00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:40,580 critics was Peter Todd. 161 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:45,860 And we even hired him to write a critique beating up the idea. 162 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:49,900 But basically everything in his critique was like factually wrong. 163 00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:54,380 And I have a giant image of that where I post his thing and my thing and people can read 164 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:56,500 that and give it to you also if people are interested. 165 00:11:56,940 --> 00:12:02,220 But a couple of things were that after he went on stage at Baltic Honey Badger and he 166 00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:06,980 said that there was no code for this, which meant that he, which is a mistaken thing to 167 00:12:06,980 --> 00:12:11,820 say, but more than just being a mistake, it meant that he had never visited drivechain.info 168 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:14,260 it says like download like at the top and big font. 169 00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:16,940 So it meant that he had never visited the site. 170 00:12:16,940 --> 00:12:20,580 It was very perplexing that he didn't realize it was two and a half years after we had his 171 00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:25,220 Zcash privacy sidechain out that had a GUI and he's around. 172 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:29,420 He's the chief critic and he has no idea that the software exists. 173 00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:32,100 And that was like baffling to me. 174 00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:35,300 Also, his critiques, all the critiques are inane. 175 00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:38,540 The critiques are just like miners might earn too much money or something. 176 00:12:38,540 --> 00:12:39,620 It's like really bizarre. 177 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:42,460 So that's kind of weird. 178 00:12:42,660 --> 00:12:48,540 But then in addition to writing the BIPs, we had people who were doing like draft pull 179 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:50,220 requests to Bitcoin Core. 180 00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:57,860 And these were like met with all kinds of crazy like distractions, harassment, just 181 00:12:57,860 --> 00:12:59,740 like irrelevant nonsense. 182 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:06,700 And then I invented this other thing, CUSF, the Core Untouched Soft Fork, which is a way 183 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:10,660 of doing soft forks without changing any lines of code in Bitcoin Core. 184 00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:17,420 And there's like, so I just think that the culture in Bitcoin is really screwed up. 185 00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:25,220 I think OpReturn, not OpReturn, excuse me, OP_CAT is kind of a smoking gun where just 186 00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:29,860 people are just afraid of the idea of the software. 187 00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:31,940 So a different example is Taproot. 188 00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:39,740 Peter Weil, he was willing to work on Taproot, but he was just unwilling to discuss 189 00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:45,060 activation. This is too emotionally traumatizing or whatever. 190 00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:48,060 Some random guy had to do a speedy trial. 191 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:50,540 So I just think the whole community is really messed up. 192 00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:52,580 It's not just BIP300. 193 00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:58,380 It's like the lightning has infected everyone's mind. 194 00:13:58,740 --> 00:14:10,020 People don't want to say, there's like a prestige economy around who can get their code 195 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:15,180 merged. So if you get your code merged, then you're like a important person and you can 196 00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:16,220 get blah, blah, blah. 197 00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:17,580 It's all just like a bunch of nonsense. 198 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:21,780 So even like you could take it to like miners themselves and say, this is in your own 199 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:30,620 financial interest. We're in a situation where the end miners who buy the ASICs, they 200 00:14:30,620 --> 00:14:35,060 don't know anything. To them, Bitcoin mining is a lot like mining for silver or something 201 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:36,620 else. They just get cheap power. 202 00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:37,940 They plug the stuff in. 203 00:14:38,940 --> 00:14:40,460 They sell that for a fiat. 204 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:41,940 They're not even really Bitcoiners. 205 00:14:42,140 --> 00:14:47,740 The pools, you know, they can't do anything that upgrades the network as a whole because 206 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:53,780 the pools, you know, let's say the pools compete against other pools. 207 00:14:53,820 --> 00:14:56,940 So something that benefits them all, they're like, well, I can't get a leg up on. 208 00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:02,140 So I think the whole community has become deranged in many ways. 209 00:15:02,780 --> 00:15:06,220 But yeah, I think it would be too much work to fix at this point. 210 00:15:06,340 --> 00:15:09,020 And it would be much easier to launch something new. 211 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,860 And at which point, I mean, I hate to say this, but at which point you could essentially 212 00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:19,140 profit off of the irrationality of BTC because you'd be able to say, well, this is one 213 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:21,460 is very, very, very expensive and the other is very cheap. 214 00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:28,940 And yet one is, you know, accumulating mistakes that it can't get rid of. 215 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,780 The other has opportunity to just move forward. 216 00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:39,500 So do you think a lot of the big whales in Bitcoin, like Michael Saylor, do you think 217 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:41,340 they realize what's going on? 218 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:43,020 Like, I don't know. 219 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:43,820 I don't think so. 220 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:44,300 Do you? 221 00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:48,660 You're asking me if I think I don't know. 222 00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:54,100 I honestly, well, I'll tell you what, I'll give you my honest opinion since you're 223 00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:57,780 asking. I think I don't think Saylor really understands what's going on. 224 00:15:58,780 --> 00:16:07,340 And this was, in my opinion, very evident during the dispute between Core and Knotz. 225 00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:22,340 Saylor, at the beginning, had a very unsure stance where he said, you know, don't touch 226 00:16:22,620 --> 00:16:29,660 it. And then he kind of changed his tune and he went back and forth as to like, he 227 00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:32,460 doesn't know, you know, it's almost like. 228 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:40,580 I don't think he would he would have an answer to the Core and Knotz situation. 229 00:16:40,940 --> 00:16:43,140 Right. Which is a very, very, very easy one, I think. 230 00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:47,660 And I think that is worrisome because he noticed he refuses to wear it. 231 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,500 Sorry to interrupt, but you're 100 percent right. 232 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:52,660 That he he'll he's blah, blah, blah. 233 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,060 Normally you can't get him to shut up. 234 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:55,900 You know, he's got an opinion on everything. 235 00:16:55,940 --> 00:16:59,100 He's got a little metaphor for how everything is like when electricity wasn't vented or 236 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:04,180 whatever. But then as soon as it comes to this, should we change the OpReturn standardness 237 00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:06,420 broadcast default value? 238 00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:09,060 Then it's like, oh, no, we can't. 239 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:11,300 You know, I used to make a joke to people. 240 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:14,940 I would go to a Bitcoin meetup and say, hey, why don't we just ask Michael Saylor to tell 241 00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:16,180 us what to do for OpReturn? 242 00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:18,980 And then people would laugh because they know that he doesn't actually know anything 243 00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:23,380 about it. Yeah, and that's and that's what's, in my opinion, very eye opening. 244 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:30,580 I think that like the biggest mistake that guys like us can make is in assuming that 245 00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:37,860 what you and I see so logical and evident before us is what the masses or the overall 246 00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:40,660 Bitcoin population will also see. 247 00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:46,780 And from my experience and from the experience of many other Bitcoiners, we've come 248 00:17:46,780 --> 00:17:47,940 to realize that. 249 00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:56,340 The left side of the curve is very manipulatable, and so my question to you is, is 250 00:17:56,340 --> 00:18:04,820 like, how will you address that, which is, in my opinion, what is most crucial here that 251 00:18:05,020 --> 00:18:09,300 with just a couple of mantras, you can really hypnotize people and moving in a certain 252 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:17,900 direction and and and and conduce them to become toxic and closing their mind, their 253 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:20,180 ears to anything that actually. 254 00:18:21,220 --> 00:18:27,180 Is helpful and fruitful for all of us, so how do you plan on tackling that left side of 255 00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:28,060 the bell curve? 256 00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:34,860 Well, I think when you start over the new project, it is an opportunity to like restart 257 00:18:35,140 --> 00:18:40,380 the food chain, so to speak, where you would you go for the right part of the bell curve 258 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:47,420 first because they're more likely to grasp the nuance and the complexity of something 259 00:18:47,420 --> 00:18:54,860 that's very new. This isn't so much a bet on that that eCash will be a huge success. 260 00:18:55,380 --> 00:19:00,020 It's more of a hedge against BTC, just like collapsing into failure, which I think is 261 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:04,020 unfortunately, has some serious likelihood. 262 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:06,300 Now, there's just so much irrationality. 263 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:11,340 One of those things is that, you know, Michael Saylor, he doesn't know about up, you know, he 264 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:12,660 can prove us wrong at any time. 265 00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:16,300 He can make a video proving that, you know, with his stance on up return. 266 00:19:16,540 --> 00:19:22,660 But I think Michael Saylor is a big proponent of ossification, but he doesn't even realize 267 00:19:22,660 --> 00:19:27,980 that like a soft fork is not actually a change to the protocol, leaves the old protocol where 268 00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:35,420 it was. And so that is like that's getting the new thing and keeping the ossification. 269 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:41,500 This is a very, very rudimentary idea to me, but my guess is that he has not a clue. 270 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,420 You would have no clue. But even if I was standing right in front of him and I have had 271 00:19:45,420 --> 00:19:49,740 the opportunity to talk to him a few times, but I think even if, you know, we just have no 272 00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:50,980 idea about any of this stuff. 273 00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:58,660 So what would be your your advice to the to the Bitcoin whale listening to this? 274 00:19:58,660 --> 00:19:59,740 Like, what would you say to them? 275 00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:07,380 Or what would be? I would say you have an opportunity to make if you have an opportunity 276 00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:12,420 to make money that you didn't have before and this is how it would go, it would say just 277 00:20:12,420 --> 00:20:16,260 think, you know, do you think this is worth your time to spend a little bit more time 278 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:21,780 looking into? Because if it is now, there will be an actual thing you can do. 279 00:20:22,420 --> 00:20:31,220 There will be an actual, you know, you can buy some and sell one of the other and then 280 00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:32,580 you can profit off of that decision. 281 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:36,220 So, you know, I'm not asking you to make any decisions now, but you can you can research 282 00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:46,220 it and decide, you know, is is actually what I'm proposing with BIP300 Thunder L2, is that 283 00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:48,340 actually much, much better than the Lightning Network? 284 00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:51,500 The answer is yes, because you can onboard people directly to it. 285 00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:52,860 There's no liquidity. 286 00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:58,260 There's merge mining, passes all the transaction fee revenue to the L1 miners 287 00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:03,860 automatically, can scale to 8 billion, onboard 8 billion people and process all the 288 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:08,700 transactions on Earth, which is something that the Lightning Network can't even come close to 289 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:15,340 doing. And you could say, what about the Z-side Privacy L2 that I propose? 290 00:21:15,980 --> 00:21:22,180 You know, it's a million times better than CoinJoin, CoinJoin something where you have, you 291 00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:26,540 know, five you and four other people, the four decoys in the anonymity set. 292 00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:33,260 But with the, you know, Z-side is based off of the Zcash technology. 293 00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:38,100 You have a reusable address that hides the sender, the receiver and the amount, it works with any 294 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:44,180 amount. You blend with everyone who's using the shielded pool, not just four people. 295 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:45,980 It's like it's like a million times better. 296 00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:50,820 So just ask yourself, and then why aren't we doing soft forks in Bitcoin? 297 00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:58,420 Is it an actual choice to, you know, ossify the network? 298 00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:03,260 That's not true at all, because they changed every six months, they change stuff around all the 299 00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:06,460 time. They release new version of Bitcoin all the time. 300 00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:12,140 They refactor all the time, they do tests, they make all kinds of weird changes. 301 00:22:12,940 --> 00:22:16,740 Some of the changes are, you know, they accidentally introduced inflation bug. 302 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:23,260 And so, like, it's not like, so why aren't we doing a soft fork? 303 00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:24,940 Because they do this code changes. 304 00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:29,700 They just don't want to do it. Is it for a real reason or is it because of totally irrational 305 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:30,620 political reasons? 306 00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:36,500 What do you think will be your biggest pushback from the Bitcoin community? 307 00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:42,300 I honestly don't know, because you want to know what's funny is even I proposed, even proposing 308 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:49,580 the BIP300 soft fork, which is again, something that you do like, you know, it's not really 309 00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:53,940 like, it's not something that like you would get you get paid to do. 310 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:57,540 Like I didn't when I was inventing Drivechain in 2015, like no one paid me to do that. 311 00:22:58,420 --> 00:22:59,820 And Jeremy Rubin, I don't know. 312 00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:02,940 I don't know how people like get paid and I can't speak for them per se. 313 00:23:03,260 --> 00:23:05,860 But it was like, yeah, you do all this work to try to make Bitcoin better. 314 00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:12,820 And then people, they accused, they said that BIP300 was like bringing shit coins to Bitcoin, 315 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:18,460 which is like literally absurd and is kind of the opposite of what it actually does. 316 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:23,940 Right. Which makes it so you don't need to have any shit coins in the whole world in order to do 317 00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:26,020 these things with the same 21 million coins. 318 00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:27,900 It destroys the shit coin, actually. 319 00:23:27,940 --> 00:23:30,660 Right. Yeah, mine as well. 320 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:31,900 I mean, that's exactly what it does. 321 00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:38,460 It says any altcoin, it says it removes the pretext for the existing completely because it says, 322 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:42,060 well, hey, oh, I really want to have a use ring signatures. 323 00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:45,860 Then that's why I have this, you know, Monero coin per se. 324 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:50,220 And then it would be like, well, you could just have ring signatures on, you know, Bitcoin sidechain. 325 00:23:50,940 --> 00:23:54,060 So it's totally like Armageddon to them. 326 00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:55,220 But that was what it was called. 327 00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:59,140 And then now some of this stuff with the OpReturn drama. 328 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:06,060 And with the Ordinal's drama, you know, that's when they have that one guy, Udi and Eric, they're 329 00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:10,500 like dancing on stage and then you have the people like that one guy swearing at them and saying 330 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:15,180 they're going to they're ruining Bitcoin like for his grandchildren and they're going to destroy 331 00:24:15,180 --> 00:24:22,180 society. And so now you just think like, oh, my God, like, you know, it's baffling. 332 00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:28,580 So I don't know what I think we can confidently say, whatever the criticism is, it's going to be 333 00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:35,980 wrong. OK, so look, let's for our audience now that they have an idea of what's happening, let's 334 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:42,380 step back and let's go after let's explain if you could please explain the dynamic, the game 335 00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:51,980 theory of a sidechain of a Bitcoin with sidechains, eCash, how will explain sidechains? 336 00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:55,580 How do they work? How do Drivechains, sidechains work? 337 00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:58,500 Yeah, these are like. 338 00:24:59,487 --> 00:25:17,487 Basically, these are just in L2, so you deposit, someone has to send coins from L1 to the L2, once they're there, it's kind of like exactly how it is with, you know, a Drivechain L2 is a lot like an altcoin, but it starts with zero coins. 339 00:25:17,487 --> 00:25:22,487 Instead, they all share the same 21 million BTC or eCash in this case. 340 00:25:23,487 --> 00:25:29,487 They would share the same 21 million BTC if BIP300 were active on the BTC network. 341 00:25:30,487 --> 00:25:34,487 So anyway, someone can send coins there. 342 00:25:34,487 --> 00:25:41,487 It's like one person could send coins to the L2 and then over there they could change hands an unlimited number of times and in an unlimited number of ways. 343 00:25:42,487 --> 00:25:50,487 And then they can be sent back to the L1 withdrawing them from the L2 back to the L1. 344 00:25:51,487 --> 00:25:58,487 That's a very simple version, but really, it's easier if people think of like, OK, altcoins, they're all very different. 345 00:25:59,487 --> 00:26:09,487 They may be written in a different programming language, like some could be written in Rust, some could be written in, you know, in Go or whatever. 346 00:26:10,487 --> 00:26:22,487 So you can kind of do whatever you want with the L2s and they're optional in the sense that if you run L1, you don't necessarily have to run any of the L2s. 347 00:26:22,487 --> 00:26:26,487 And if you run an L2, you must run an L1 node. 348 00:26:26,487 --> 00:26:31,487 So in that way, they're very similar to Lightning Network and other things. 349 00:26:32,487 --> 00:26:39,487 Right on, right on. So your L1, I was looking on your website, is 400 kilobytes. 350 00:26:39,487 --> 00:26:45,487 So it would make you it would make eCash the true small blocker blockchain. 351 00:26:45,487 --> 00:26:46,487 Is that am I getting this right? 352 00:26:47,487 --> 00:26:48,487 Yes, that is right. 353 00:26:49,487 --> 00:26:57,487 I'm keeping the L1 basically exactly the same as Bitcoin Core, but I did make this one change to make it so that it has the small. 354 00:26:57,487 --> 00:27:08,487 I think it's not quite sure, you know, but yeah, the idea is that that would be the small block project because it's actually overkill. 355 00:27:08,487 --> 00:27:16,487 If you're going to have people transact on the L2s, you really don't need that much space on L1 because you have these L2 chains that have plenty of space. 356 00:27:17,487 --> 00:27:24,487 The cool thing is, is that what you're proposing saves Bitcoin because it gives Bitcoin options. 357 00:27:24,487 --> 00:27:30,487 It gets Bitcoin outside of this environment of developer capture. 358 00:27:31,487 --> 00:27:47,487 And it allows for there to be innovation while also giving investors the opportunity to stay within a very small layer one that does exactly what the nots people would want. 359 00:27:47,487 --> 00:27:54,487 You would want to have, which is nothing like very small block size, which is cool. 360 00:27:54,487 --> 00:27:56,487 You know, if that's what they have, they have that option. 361 00:27:56,487 --> 00:27:59,487 Yes, I'm a believer in giving people what they want. 362 00:27:59,487 --> 00:28:05,487 Exactly. And the cool thing is, is that with the sidechains, you have that option. 363 00:28:05,487 --> 00:28:17,487 And, you know, something very important to bring up in this conversation is the fact that when I was part of the BitAngels network and I got the pitch deck for Blockstream, this is what they promised. 364 00:28:17,487 --> 00:28:23,487 They promised sidechains and they really never delivered these sidechains. 365 00:28:23,487 --> 00:28:29,487 And you went out of your way to deliver these sidechains that they themselves had promised to the Bitcoin community. 366 00:28:29,487 --> 00:28:36,487 And now that they're here, I mean, it's been how long since you've been trying to implement them since you got done with them? Like four years? 367 00:28:37,487 --> 00:28:43,487 Well, you know, I worked on it on and off, but the idea was from 2015. 368 00:28:43,487 --> 00:28:48,487 I kind of shopped the idea around a little before doing any code. 369 00:28:48,487 --> 00:28:53,487 Then we wrote some code, but that was for Bitcoin Core version 1699. 370 00:28:53,487 --> 00:28:56,487 And they never got around to rebasing it. 371 00:28:56,487 --> 00:29:01,487 In 2023, it was kind of like, what would it be like if it was a pull request to Bitcoin Core? 372 00:29:02,487 --> 00:29:06,487 By then, the community had already become completely deranged. 373 00:29:06,487 --> 00:29:09,487 But you're 100% correct. 374 00:29:09,487 --> 00:29:11,487 You can go back to an earlier era. 375 00:29:11,487 --> 00:29:15,487 You and I remember it because we were there, but other people were not. 376 00:29:15,487 --> 00:29:22,487 In 2013 through 2015, the sidechains idea was like this Holy Grail type of thing. 377 00:29:22,487 --> 00:29:24,487 It was like this super big deal. 378 00:29:25,487 --> 00:29:28,487 And remember even you had people like Brian Armstrong. 379 00:29:28,487 --> 00:29:33,487 He was tweeting like Litecoin, Ripple, altcoins, these are all distraction. 380 00:29:33,487 --> 00:29:36,487 And the real way is Bitcoin and sidechains. 381 00:29:36,487 --> 00:29:37,487 Yep. 382 00:29:37,487 --> 00:29:40,487 And then there was just like, remember Reid Hoffman? 383 00:29:40,487 --> 00:29:45,487 He had this thing about why I invested in Blockstream. 384 00:29:45,487 --> 00:29:48,487 It was all about it's too difficult. 385 00:29:48,487 --> 00:29:55,487 If a developer wants to introduce a new idea, the temptation is for them to just create a new coin. 386 00:29:55,487 --> 00:30:02,487 How can they experiment with a new idea while making sure that they don't mess up Bitcoin? 387 00:30:02,487 --> 00:30:08,487 So all this stuff was like people were already way beyond the Michael Saylor comprehension of ossification. 388 00:30:08,487 --> 00:30:09,487 Like back then. 389 00:30:09,487 --> 00:30:10,487 Oh, 100%, dude. 390 00:30:10,487 --> 00:30:13,487 But now people have kind of just forgotten about the idea. 391 00:30:13,487 --> 00:30:19,487 Because I think it's a little too awkward to bring it up without asking Blockstream why they didn't finish it. 392 00:30:19,487 --> 00:30:21,487 And they barely even tried, really. 393 00:30:21,487 --> 00:30:23,487 They had this skip list idea. 394 00:30:23,487 --> 00:30:26,487 It was like an appendix B of their paper. 395 00:30:26,487 --> 00:30:32,487 But then they never really got past appendix A where they said, well, temporarily we're going to just to get something out. 396 00:30:32,487 --> 00:30:39,487 And even Greg Maxwell has videos about this where he's just like, well, until we finish the real two-way peg, we're just going to bandaid this thing together. 397 00:30:39,487 --> 00:30:41,487 That's just a multi-sig. 398 00:30:41,487 --> 00:30:42,487 And that became Liquid. 399 00:30:42,487 --> 00:30:49,487 That became like their main product, the fake pre-sidechain multi-sig thing. 400 00:30:49,487 --> 00:30:53,487 The type of thing that we would laugh at when Ethereum does it and they say this is a new thing. 401 00:30:53,487 --> 00:30:58,487 And we just say, well, that's just giving a group of people your money. 402 00:30:58,487 --> 00:30:59,487 Yeah. 403 00:30:59,487 --> 00:31:01,487 Giving a group of keys your money. 404 00:31:01,487 --> 00:31:07,487 So, yeah, it's baffling how people were smarter back then than they are now. 405 00:31:07,487 --> 00:31:08,487 That's true. 406 00:31:08,487 --> 00:31:16,487 And I think, you know, if I put on my conspiracy hat, which is my research hat on, I think that's part of the game, to be honest with you. 407 00:31:16,487 --> 00:31:23,487 I think they want people dumb and they want people to forget what's possible with these technologies. 408 00:31:23,487 --> 00:31:26,487 And I commend you, sir, for keeping them alive. 409 00:31:26,487 --> 00:31:36,487 Because, look, we gave this path of scaling Bitcoin, I think, a very good go. 410 00:31:37,487 --> 00:31:48,487 And I'm happy that, you know, you've introduced this in a time where the like you and I see the faults in BTC. 411 00:31:48,487 --> 00:31:58,487 But the vast majority of people like the sailors of this world still think that it's like something that is perfect in design still. 412 00:31:58,487 --> 00:32:07,487 And so they have not yet felt the consequences of this lack of understanding how to scale Bitcoin. 413 00:32:07,487 --> 00:32:15,487 How have you have you encountered good support for this project since you started announcing this fork? 414 00:32:15,487 --> 00:32:19,487 Well, you know, I have been keeping it a secret mostly. 415 00:32:19,487 --> 00:32:23,487 OK, so this is one of the first times you actually are public about this. 416 00:32:23,487 --> 00:32:24,487 Right. 417 00:32:24,487 --> 00:32:25,487 Oh, wow. 418 00:32:25,487 --> 00:32:26,487 OK, cool. 419 00:32:26,487 --> 00:32:27,487 Well, thank you. 420 00:32:28,487 --> 00:32:29,487 Pretty cool, Paul. 421 00:32:31,487 --> 00:32:32,487 And how are you feeling about that? 422 00:32:32,487 --> 00:32:33,487 How are you feeling about? 423 00:32:35,487 --> 00:32:39,487 Well, people have been telling me that the secret, you know, I thought I was keeping it pretty well. 424 00:32:39,487 --> 00:32:42,487 But people have been telling me that they already knew and whatever. 425 00:32:42,487 --> 00:32:49,487 So, you know, and I think obviously, you know, by the time the fork happens, it has to be public. 426 00:32:49,487 --> 00:32:50,487 So it's got to be. 427 00:32:51,487 --> 00:32:53,487 What I'm worried about is that I may have waited too long. 428 00:32:53,487 --> 00:32:59,487 I feel bad like because now I was waiting to see if like the Lightning Network would work out. 429 00:33:00,487 --> 00:33:03,487 But now it totally doesn't work at all. 430 00:33:03,487 --> 00:33:08,487 I know a lot of people still they really think that it does, but it definitely really doesn't. 431 00:33:08,487 --> 00:33:12,487 That's the thing, man, is that it's a culture of delusion, you know. 432 00:33:12,487 --> 00:33:13,487 Right. 433 00:33:13,487 --> 00:33:16,487 BTC became a very weird. 434 00:33:19,487 --> 00:33:21,487 It's the hijacking of the mind, really. 435 00:33:21,487 --> 00:33:25,487 It's not just hijacking of Bitcoin, but it was the hijacking of the mind of the Bitcoiner. 436 00:33:26,487 --> 00:33:29,487 And you just got a really weird culture, really weird way of thinking. 437 00:33:30,487 --> 00:33:36,487 And it's just and, you know, if you I mean, my opinion, dude, this was fabricated by the likes of Epstein. 438 00:33:37,487 --> 00:33:48,487 As you can see in the Epstein files, he was him and the like of those people were really involved in promoting what we saw in, you know, in the hijacking of Bitcoin. 439 00:33:48,487 --> 00:33:51,487 And it's the weird culture that it is now. 440 00:33:52,487 --> 00:33:53,487 Sorry, you were saying? 441 00:33:54,487 --> 00:33:57,487 Yeah, I don't know what's going on, but it's whatever it is. 442 00:33:57,487 --> 00:33:58,487 It doesn't it doesn't work very well. 443 00:33:58,487 --> 00:34:03,487 So I think like Lightning is I hate to keep repeating that. 444 00:34:03,487 --> 00:34:14,487 But I mean, for treasury companies, we could also say imagine like the like remember when Trace Mayer would do the January 3rd like proof of keys thing or something. 445 00:34:14,487 --> 00:34:19,487 It would be like, take your Bitcoin off the exchange. 446 00:34:19,487 --> 00:34:21,487 So you custody it with your own node. 447 00:34:22,487 --> 00:34:24,487 But now we're pushing people. 448 00:34:25,487 --> 00:34:29,487 Send don't even like, you know, send it to the Bitcoin, buy the Bitcoin ETF. 449 00:34:29,487 --> 00:34:32,487 You know, you don't even have you're not even using a full node. 450 00:34:34,487 --> 00:34:37,487 You don't technically have any Bitcoin you buy through the ETF. 451 00:34:38,487 --> 00:34:46,487 And then even the treasury companies are like even one further where it's like, OK, now just give give the money to a company in exchange for stock. 452 00:34:46,487 --> 00:34:49,487 They can print as much stock as they want at any time. 453 00:34:49,487 --> 00:34:51,487 The centralized issuer of the shares. 454 00:34:53,487 --> 00:34:55,487 I just you know, it's very strange because it's. 455 00:34:57,487 --> 00:35:05,487 You know, in what in what earlier era of Bitcoin would that would that be, you know, anything other than like totally laughed at like it's like a Bitcoin. 456 00:35:06,487 --> 00:35:08,487 It's like a we'll watch your Bitcoin for you. 457 00:35:08,487 --> 00:35:09,487 And I'd be like, what? 458 00:35:09,487 --> 00:35:11,487 Like, yeah, it's bizarre. 459 00:35:12,487 --> 00:35:19,487 I don't know. And then even like, OK, during the block size war, it was like bit pay and the people wanted to buy coffee. 460 00:35:19,487 --> 00:35:22,487 They were kind of on one side, large blocker side that lost. 461 00:35:23,487 --> 00:35:26,487 And then the small blockers that were kind of like. 462 00:35:27,487 --> 00:35:31,487 It's more important that everyone be able to run a node. 463 00:35:32,487 --> 00:35:34,487 But it's like, you know. 464 00:35:35,487 --> 00:35:40,487 Who who is out there even running a node and you don't even need a node if you have ETF Bitcoin. 465 00:35:41,487 --> 00:35:45,487 The coffee purchasing bit pay type people. 466 00:35:47,487 --> 00:35:48,487 Since they lost. 467 00:35:49,487 --> 00:35:52,487 We in BTC, the winning small blockers. 468 00:35:52,487 --> 00:36:01,487 Now, anyone who talks about like, oh, trying to get merchant adoption or or spending or transaction fee revenue for miners, that's considered like a bad thing. 469 00:36:02,487 --> 00:36:09,487 You know, and then even, you know, plenty of people might consider trying to redefine it as credit or something. 470 00:36:09,487 --> 00:36:13,487 And it's not it's no longer it's not even money or whatever. 471 00:36:13,487 --> 00:36:15,487 Maybe it is, but I don't know. 472 00:36:15,487 --> 00:36:16,487 But the point is. 473 00:36:18,487 --> 00:36:22,487 Like, we have totally like transformed. 474 00:36:24,487 --> 00:36:26,487 To some degree, it's healthy. 475 00:36:27,487 --> 00:36:31,487 To refine your, you know, as you get product market fit or whatever. 476 00:36:31,487 --> 00:36:32,487 But that's not what this is. 477 00:36:32,487 --> 00:36:33,487 This is just like. 478 00:36:35,487 --> 00:36:36,487 Hatred. 479 00:36:36,487 --> 00:36:38,487 This is sour grapes is what it is. 480 00:36:38,487 --> 00:36:40,487 It's like, oh, we couldn't have. 481 00:36:41,487 --> 00:36:46,487 It's like before the idea was everyone, all this technology would be added to Bitcoin because it was all open source. 482 00:36:46,487 --> 00:36:49,487 But now it's like we don't have good privacy in Bitcoin. 483 00:36:50,487 --> 00:36:54,487 So you have to attack Monero as a shit coin. 484 00:36:54,487 --> 00:36:55,487 You have to attack. 485 00:36:57,487 --> 00:36:58,487 You know, Zcash. 486 00:36:58,487 --> 00:36:59,487 And you have to say, you know what? 487 00:37:00,487 --> 00:37:02,487 We never really wanted those zk-SNARKs anyway. 488 00:37:02,487 --> 00:37:03,487 So that's what it is. 489 00:37:03,487 --> 00:37:04,487 It's sour grapes. 490 00:37:05,487 --> 00:37:06,487 And they just say, you know what? 491 00:37:06,487 --> 00:37:07,487 We never wanted. 492 00:37:07,487 --> 00:37:09,487 We never wanted scalability anyway. 493 00:37:09,487 --> 00:37:10,487 We never wanted payments. 494 00:37:10,487 --> 00:37:12,487 And it's like we just we never wanted anything. 495 00:37:12,487 --> 00:37:13,487 We're just nothing now. 496 00:37:14,487 --> 00:37:19,487 So we're just a popularity contest and we can see who can get. 497 00:37:19,487 --> 00:37:21,487 Can we get someone else to buy? 498 00:37:21,487 --> 00:37:24,487 Can we get El Salvador to buy or whatever? 499 00:37:25,487 --> 00:37:27,487 So can we get someone else to buy and validate our. 500 00:37:29,487 --> 00:37:30,487 Validate our cult. 501 00:37:31,487 --> 00:37:40,487 And, yeah, I mean, I would rather have people like Roger Veer, Eric Voorhees, Peter Thiel, who bought a bunch of Bitcoin and sold. 502 00:37:41,487 --> 00:37:43,487 Because he thought it wasn't private enough. 503 00:37:45,487 --> 00:37:49,487 So I would rather have them than, you know, Michael Saylor. 504 00:37:51,487 --> 00:37:55,487 OK, so what will a Zcash world look like? 505 00:37:55,487 --> 00:37:58,487 Like we talked enough about the problems with Bitcoin. 506 00:37:59,487 --> 00:38:05,487 Like even people that are hardcore like Maxis have problems with Bitcoin right now. 507 00:38:06,487 --> 00:38:09,487 That's why I like this fork is so timely. 508 00:38:10,487 --> 00:38:13,487 Because, again, no one's happy in Bitcoin, really. 509 00:38:13,487 --> 00:38:16,487 It's like there's no parties happy. 510 00:38:16,487 --> 00:38:19,487 The core devs have an idea of how to scale it. 511 00:38:19,487 --> 00:38:22,487 There's another group that's completely against their idea, whatever. 512 00:38:23,487 --> 00:38:27,487 We understand that culture very well. 513 00:38:27,487 --> 00:38:28,487 We've talked about it enough. 514 00:38:29,487 --> 00:38:31,487 How does an Zcash world look like? 515 00:38:32,487 --> 00:38:33,487 How is it different? 516 00:38:35,487 --> 00:38:39,487 Well, first of all, we have these L2s that all compete with each other. 517 00:38:39,487 --> 00:38:45,487 So you probably get much better experience as a user because you have all the developers competing. 518 00:38:46,487 --> 00:38:52,487 And that means that if any developer makes a mistake, they may lose market share, so to speak. 519 00:38:53,487 --> 00:38:58,487 When I say market share, I mean there's only 21 million coins total and they can flow among the different L2s. 520 00:38:59,487 --> 00:39:05,487 So if one is really useful and is really working hard to meet the user's needs, then it will do well. 521 00:39:06,487 --> 00:39:07,487 You also have all these people who do these. 522 00:39:08,487 --> 00:39:17,487 A lot of the people who have created an altcoin, they tried to do their idea on Bitcoin first, but they just couldn't for whatever reason. 523 00:39:18,487 --> 00:39:23,487 So this is certainly true of Vitalik, who was a creator of Bitcoin Magazine originally. 524 00:39:24,487 --> 00:39:26,487 Certainly true of the large blockers. 525 00:39:28,487 --> 00:39:30,487 Certainly true of Namecoin. 526 00:39:31,487 --> 00:39:33,487 Certainly true of David Vorek's project. 527 00:39:34,487 --> 00:39:39,487 So now all those people could launch L2s as L2s on this. 528 00:39:40,487 --> 00:39:48,487 I think they probably would because one of the things that a great developer wants is recognition for how impressive their idea is, the hack value of the idea. 529 00:39:49,487 --> 00:39:54,487 And when you launch as an altcoin, everyone will just assume that you're doing it for the money. 530 00:39:55,487 --> 00:40:00,487 But if you launch as a sidechain L2, you can't earn money doing that. 531 00:40:00,487 --> 00:40:03,487 So actually it must be because you think the tech is better. 532 00:40:04,487 --> 00:40:06,487 So if you're in it for the tech, that will help you. 533 00:40:07,487 --> 00:40:19,487 I think the greater competition among L2s also keeps the L1 in check somewhat because it takes some of the heat off and the drama off L1. 534 00:40:20,487 --> 00:40:31,487 Also where it's kind of like now, since everyone's going to get all their features anyway, it's not as much of a social... 535 00:40:32,487 --> 00:40:34,487 There's nothing at stake. 536 00:40:35,487 --> 00:40:36,487 There's not much at stake for L1. 537 00:40:37,487 --> 00:40:45,487 But L1 could also ossify for the same reason, which is that it doesn't matter if it does because you can safely escape to the L2s. 538 00:40:45,487 --> 00:40:47,487 Now in this world, all the L2s are merge-mined. 539 00:40:48,487 --> 00:40:56,487 So it means that the mining revenues can grow geometrically forever because you have access to unlimited block space, unlimited transaction throughput. 540 00:40:57,487 --> 00:41:02,487 So even if the fees are very low, $0.10 per transaction, you could eventually have billions of transactions. 541 00:41:03,487 --> 00:41:10,487 I've estimated the transaction rate of Earth as like $9 trillion transactions per year. 542 00:41:10,487 --> 00:41:17,487 So even if $0.10 per transaction is $900 billion per year, this number grows geometrically over time. 543 00:41:18,487 --> 00:41:19,487 So you have all that. 544 00:41:20,487 --> 00:41:28,487 I think it's very hard for altcoins to exist in a world where there's a successful sidechain-enabled coin because, again, what are they going to say? 545 00:41:29,487 --> 00:41:30,487 Oh, my thing has this feature. 546 00:41:31,487 --> 00:41:32,487 My thing has EVM or whatever. 547 00:41:33,487 --> 00:41:35,487 That's not going to be good enough. 548 00:41:35,487 --> 00:41:38,487 So it kind of resets the maximalist idea. 549 00:41:39,487 --> 00:41:41,487 It plants it on firmer ground. 550 00:41:42,487 --> 00:41:51,487 I think also a huge problem in Bitcoin was the block size limit, was scalability, because you had these times when the price would go up enormously. 551 00:41:52,487 --> 00:41:55,487 And then the blocks would get full during that time because everyone's scrambling to sell. 552 00:41:56,487 --> 00:41:57,487 Everyone's scrambling to buy also. 553 00:41:58,487 --> 00:42:00,487 So there's a very high transaction demand. 554 00:42:01,487 --> 00:42:07,487 And then as you did that, the fees would go up, $1, $3, $5, $15, maybe $20. 555 00:42:08,487 --> 00:42:19,487 So during these times when Bitcoin's skyrocketing, that's when I would get a bunch of text messages from old friends and whatever, friends from high school and college or whatever. 556 00:42:20,487 --> 00:42:21,487 And they'd be like, hey, you're really into that Bitcoin thing. 557 00:42:22,487 --> 00:42:23,487 What's the deal with that? 558 00:42:24,487 --> 00:42:25,487 And then I'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll send you some. 559 00:42:25,487 --> 00:42:29,487 You try to send them like $25 worth of Bitcoin, but it's like getting eaten by the fee. 560 00:42:30,487 --> 00:42:31,487 And it's really humiliating. 561 00:42:32,487 --> 00:42:37,487 And so you have this what could have been a chain reaction of an atomic explosion of adoption. 562 00:42:38,487 --> 00:42:45,487 But every single time it hits the block size limit, it stops because the block size limit is just too embarrassing. 563 00:42:47,487 --> 00:42:48,487 So we wouldn't have that issue. 564 00:42:49,487 --> 00:42:55,487 I would try to address the idea of like, you know, people show up and there's all these cryptocurrencies and it's baffling to people. 565 00:42:56,487 --> 00:42:58,487 That's why they use the phrase crypto, because there's just too many. 566 00:42:59,487 --> 00:43:00,487 They just say, OK. 567 00:43:01,487 --> 00:43:03,487 But with this, you would really be able to say. 568 00:43:05,487 --> 00:43:12,487 You know, you don't you don't need to keep researching all these different coins because thanks to the sidechain technology, there's no difference between. 569 00:43:14,487 --> 00:43:15,487 Yeah. 570 00:43:16,487 --> 00:43:23,487 And then I think also, you know, I'd really try to address a lot of some of the stuff that I've also been working on in addition to scalability and privacy. 571 00:43:24,487 --> 00:43:37,487 Trying to add like, you know, prediction markets to as like an L2 and like identity and other like cool things on that where these would be services that people actually use. 572 00:43:37,487 --> 00:43:39,487 So people would get an idea that all the. 573 00:43:41,487 --> 00:43:44,487 You know, the blockchain actually does something important. 574 00:43:45,487 --> 00:43:48,487 So the network does something and. 575 00:43:49,487 --> 00:43:52,487 You wouldn't really have to try to get rid of this idea that this is all just. 576 00:43:53,487 --> 00:43:55,487 You know, like a waste of time and it doesn't do anything useful. 577 00:43:55,487 --> 00:44:04,487 But but, you know, when you have people logging in, you know, via the blockchain or when you have pretty uncensorable prediction markets on the blockchain, I think that. 578 00:44:05,487 --> 00:44:06,487 Is a huge opportunity to. 579 00:44:07,487 --> 00:44:13,487 So I also think that probably my own ideas are just the tip of the iceberg because these are just ideas that I have had. 580 00:44:15,487 --> 00:44:16,487 And I'm just one person. 581 00:44:17,487 --> 00:44:23,487 And in any other context, like if someone else had an idea for a cool blockchain thing. 582 00:44:25,487 --> 00:44:28,487 Like it's hard to know what they would even do, like what would they even do? 583 00:44:30,487 --> 00:44:33,487 And so the idea would never see the light of day because they can't bring it to Bitcoin. 584 00:44:33,487 --> 00:44:34,487 They probably can't. 585 00:44:35,487 --> 00:44:36,487 They launch as an altcoin. 586 00:44:36,487 --> 00:44:38,487 I'm never going to hear about it because there's too many altcoins. 587 00:44:39,487 --> 00:44:40,487 Yeah. 588 00:44:40,487 --> 00:44:42,487 So I think there's probably a lot more ideas out there. 589 00:44:42,487 --> 00:44:43,487 Oh, yeah, definitely. 590 00:44:44,487 --> 00:44:53,487 And so, like, just to reiterate this for everyone watching, it's the same 21 million eCash that can move from sidechain to sidechain. 591 00:44:54,487 --> 00:44:57,487 So it's like I like the analogy you use of the party. 592 00:44:58,487 --> 00:45:01,487 If you want to explain it in that way, I think that would be good for people. 593 00:45:02,487 --> 00:45:03,487 It really helped me understand it. 594 00:45:04,487 --> 00:45:17,487 Well, yeah, when I talk about the party, that was in the context of criticizing Bitcoin Cash, I think, about in a party, most people want to be in whatever room the other people are in. 595 00:45:18,487 --> 00:45:26,487 And even if it gets kind of cramped in there or if there's like not enough food or whatever, there's something unpleasant about that area. 596 00:45:27,487 --> 00:45:30,487 You know, you really can't throw in many parties. 597 00:45:30,487 --> 00:45:31,487 You really can't. 598 00:45:31,487 --> 00:45:36,487 It's very sometimes you can get up and you can say, everyone, let's all go to this other room. 599 00:45:37,487 --> 00:45:38,487 But usually you can't. 600 00:45:39,487 --> 00:45:49,487 And usually the party just has organically it has certain rooms that for whatever reason, these become the rooms that people end up talking in. 601 00:45:50,487 --> 00:45:54,487 And then it changes depending on how many people are at the party to some extent. 602 00:45:54,487 --> 00:46:05,487 But yeah, I was doing this to mention how difficult it is to coordinate the switch from one room to the next, even under best case scenario. 603 00:46:06,487 --> 00:46:09,487 No, I was referring to the analogy you give in regards to sidechains. 604 00:46:10,487 --> 00:46:11,487 That sidechain is like a party. 605 00:46:12,487 --> 00:46:20,487 Everyone congregates in the layer one room and they can easily switch from sidechain to sidechain, from room to room of this house. 606 00:46:21,487 --> 00:46:27,487 Yeah, the sidechain is supposed to make it easier by making it easier to switch because first of all, you don't have the risk of loss. 607 00:46:28,487 --> 00:46:30,487 So it's not like in an altcoin you might lose all of your money. 608 00:46:31,487 --> 00:46:34,487 The exchange rate may change or you may lose some of your money. 609 00:46:35,487 --> 00:46:45,487 But also the possibility that you might gain money, that's also not great because that invites all of the pump people who distract everything. 610 00:46:46,487 --> 00:46:55,487 And so it's hard to get reliable information from the different competing altcoins because they all say this is the coolest altcoin in the whole world. 611 00:46:57,487 --> 00:47:04,487 And so since it's a one-to-one peg, you risk less by going over there. 612 00:47:05,487 --> 00:47:17,487 And since they can't pump one, they cannot pump the sidechain world without also pumping the L1 coin and all the other altcoins because it's the same 21 million coins. 613 00:47:18,487 --> 00:47:22,487 That means that the ideas they add, they have to actually be good for pumping the whole system. 614 00:47:23,487 --> 00:47:24,487 So they all have to cooperate. 615 00:47:25,487 --> 00:47:47,487 And so the idea is as long as it's easier for you to leave and go to a different L2, as long as it's easier for people to start a brand new L2, this increases – it lowers the cost of doing so and it increases the level of competition that the developers themselves face. 616 00:47:48,487 --> 00:47:50,487 And that keeps the developers more honest. 617 00:47:51,487 --> 00:47:52,487 Right on, right on. 618 00:47:53,487 --> 00:47:55,487 So I'm going to ask you a question. 619 00:47:56,487 --> 00:47:57,487 I think it's a little controversial. 620 00:47:58,487 --> 00:48:00,487 It's in regards to Satoshi Coins. 621 00:48:01,487 --> 00:48:06,487 So I read on your website that you are going to be selling the Satoshi Coins. 622 00:48:07,487 --> 00:48:11,487 Please explain what's going on here or some of the Satoshi Coins. 623 00:48:12,487 --> 00:48:13,487 What's going on? 624 00:48:14,487 --> 00:48:15,487 Yeah, this is bound to be controversial. 625 00:48:16,487 --> 00:48:30,487 But I think it's a smart idea because what you have to keep in mind is that we have a completely free way of doing the project now, which doesn't involve any coins. 626 00:48:31,487 --> 00:48:32,487 That's BIP300. 627 00:48:33,487 --> 00:48:35,487 So if you just want to just activate BIP300, you can. 628 00:48:36,487 --> 00:48:37,487 So you give this technology to Bitcoin already. 629 00:48:38,487 --> 00:48:39,487 Yeah, but that's the problem is they're not taking it. 630 00:48:40,487 --> 00:48:42,487 And it's not because it's not a good idea. 631 00:48:42,487 --> 00:48:44,487 But I mean, that's the other thing I would bring up. 632 00:48:45,487 --> 00:48:50,487 Either you think this is a good idea, you think BIP300 is a good idea, or you think it's not. 633 00:48:51,487 --> 00:48:54,487 And you think everything that I've been saying is really, really useful or it's not. 634 00:48:55,487 --> 00:48:59,487 If you think everything I've been saying is a bad idea, then just whatever. 635 00:49:00,487 --> 00:49:01,487 I'm just going to hard fork. 636 00:49:01,487 --> 00:49:02,487 There's going to be another bad idea altcoin out there. 637 00:49:03,487 --> 00:49:06,487 You can take it and just sell it for more BTC. 638 00:49:07,487 --> 00:49:08,487 So you're welcome for that. 639 00:49:08,487 --> 00:49:12,487 So this is still good for you, even if this is the worst idea in the world. 640 00:49:13,487 --> 00:49:17,487 But if you think this is a good idea, then you have to ask yourself, why is it not coming to BTC? 641 00:49:18,487 --> 00:49:28,487 Especially because it involves less overall hassle for developers and potentially much more mining revenue for miners. 642 00:49:29,487 --> 00:49:32,487 And yeah, I don't know exactly why it's not. 643 00:49:33,487 --> 00:49:35,487 If anyone can figure it out, they can maybe let me know. 644 00:49:35,487 --> 00:49:47,487 But I think what we have to keep in mind is that pulling off a successful hard fork is going to be very difficult and it will involve a lot of effort. 645 00:49:48,487 --> 00:49:53,487 I think it's much better to put more effort before the time of the fork, so aka now. 646 00:49:54,487 --> 00:49:59,487 But if you do the exact pure hard fork, then everyone can kind of free ride. 647 00:50:00,285 --> 00:50:09,285 And you're in a situation where you cannot disproportionately reward anyone or motivate any behavior or do anything before the fork, because the fork point everyone gets one-to-one coins equally. 648 00:50:10,285 --> 00:50:23,285 But I think that's not a good system. We want to mix in a little bit of the selfish angle of dolled coins. Not too much, only a tiny, tiny, tiny bit, but we want to mix in just a little bit. 649 00:50:24,285 --> 00:50:33,285 Because that gives people an incentive to create a good hard fork in the first place. So I kind of just split the difference. 650 00:50:33,285 --> 00:50:45,285 And it's well known that Satoshi probably has lots of coins, but he has these 1.1 million coins that he mined with a special miner that he kind of altruistically ran. 651 00:50:45,285 --> 00:50:54,285 And he had it pausing every five minutes to give other people a chance to mine, and it would turn on and mine to keep the network kind of running at a certain rate. 652 00:50:54,285 --> 00:51:02,285 And so he had this altruistically mined thing, and so Sergio Damon Lerner identified this pattern. 653 00:51:02,285 --> 00:51:12,285 And it's not to say that he doesn't deserve all those coins. Certainly he deserves all those coins. We're not taking any of his BTC. Remember, that's not even possible. 654 00:51:13,285 --> 00:51:20,285 So this is just the hard fork spinoff altcoin, or if you call it hard fork, saving Bitcoin. 655 00:51:20,285 --> 00:51:33,285 But if I'm right, then – and I could easily be wrong about everything that I'm saying – but if I'm right, then eCash will surpass BTC, and it will slowly obliterate all the fiat currencies. 656 00:51:33,285 --> 00:51:43,285 So it would be worth much more than $150,000 per coin, if I'm right, which I have to stress again, which I may not be. 657 00:51:43,285 --> 00:51:52,285 But that would cause Satoshi's net worth to go up from here, because right now he would have 1.1 million coins at $75,000 a coin. 658 00:51:52,285 --> 00:52:04,285 But if the price more than doubles – if the eCash price ends up more than double that – and all that will mean is that I was right about how vulnerable BTC was to replacement by a superior candidate. 659 00:52:04,285 --> 00:52:11,285 So we actually kind of bailed him out in my opinion. But yeah, I'm sure that a lot of people will see this as very controversial. 660 00:52:12,285 --> 00:52:23,285 It's a very hard thing to get – again, knee-jerk, it sounds very bad. But if you go for a walk and think about it, you have to say, well, what are the alternatives? 661 00:52:23,285 --> 00:52:34,285 Like one alternative is to just do hard fork and then try to install some capitalism afterwards. 662 00:52:35,285 --> 00:52:40,285 At this point, though, the clock is already running. So I can talk more about that possibility. 663 00:52:40,285 --> 00:52:53,285 But then the other possibilities are like have 22 million coins and give a million to – or try to figure out what the mining algorithm will be in it first and then get some ASICs and then not announce it and then try to mine a lot of coins. 664 00:52:53,285 --> 00:53:08,285 So either you have to take the point of view that no labor should be done to enrich the hard fork before it happens, in which case it's going to be under-provisioned. 665 00:53:09,285 --> 00:53:25,285 Or you have to say, well, okay, we want to do something before. But if you say we're going to altruistically do it, then again, you won't get as much as if instead you would use capitalism and you'd said people who do more work will get more of a benefit. 666 00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:39,285 And yeah, these are coins we are selling at a very low rate to people to give them skin in the game so that they're allies of the fork when it happens so that we can hit the ground running and have a really good debut. 667 00:53:39,285 --> 00:53:42,285 That's the real announcement, the real debut of the fork. 668 00:53:42,285 --> 00:54:07,285 How do you plan on educating people about sidechains with eCash, Drivechains with eCash and how they're beneficial? How do you plan on educating them for them to see the value in this the way that you see it now, not three years down the line, but now as this fork is upon us in August? 669 00:54:08,285 --> 00:54:28,285 Well, you can download our software and it will have fake test coins on it. But I think that would give people a much clearer idea, even though that only shows us where we are now and it's not going to show the full vision of where things could be in three years, especially when other people get involved. 670 00:54:29,285 --> 00:54:48,285 But even when I was learning about Bitcoin, it wasn't until I downloaded the software that I really understood more about how it worked. And so I think that is by far something that would increase people's understanding. 671 00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:59,285 From very, very low to very high, very quickly. And they would see the true scope of how different my vision is versus Bitcoin Core. 672 00:54:59,285 --> 00:55:09,285 And then keep in mind, if you download our software, which is LayerTwoLabs.com. If you download that software, it uses an unmodified version of Bitcoin Core as the engine. 673 00:55:10,285 --> 00:55:26,285 So that's like the ossified core. We're going to change a single line of code in Bitcoin Core for the Cygnet test network. Obviously, we will on purpose to cause the fork and to decrease the block size and stuff like that. 674 00:55:26,285 --> 00:55:41,285 But the test network software just downloads Bitcoin Core and then that's what it uses to find blocks and things. So that's how it knows what block height it is. 675 00:55:41,285 --> 00:55:55,285 So again, these are fake coins. So you would see this is what's possible just with Bitcoin Core. It's unmodified. But it takes more than just an opcode. It takes just a total revolution in expectations. 676 00:55:56,285 --> 00:56:14,285 And so I don't think we're likely to get that on BTC because everyone's been trained to just… Well, I don't really know. I don't really know why it's so bad. But you have your idea about Epstein Cabal. I'm more open-minded to that now. I don't know. I'm not a big conspiracy guy. 677 00:56:14,285 --> 00:56:34,285 It's in the Epstein files. They're more than welcome to challenge the Epstein files. They're in the Epstein files. It's not me. It's in the Epstein files. I ain't saying shit. It's in the Epstein emails. Read them for yourself. He funded. 678 00:56:34,285 --> 00:56:43,285 I mean you might be right as far as I know. I'm the one who doesn't have an answer. I have no idea why. Because to me it is like the whole community is just committing suicide for no reason. 679 00:56:44,285 --> 00:57:04,285 We can out-compete them with peer-to-peer on-chain technology. But the way to out-compete them is by being united as an industry under a network where we respect each other's differences and yet we all have the ability to innovate in any way we can. 680 00:57:05,285 --> 00:57:17,285 To be honest, to my audience, the solution that best brings all of these energies and transmutates this energy of death that we find in Bitcoin into life is this project with Paul Sztorc right here. 681 00:57:18,285 --> 00:57:41,285 It inverts ossification into innovation and it's the bringing together of all altcoin innovation and all of the Bitcoin BTC energy transmutated into an environment where everyone has choice and choice is freedom. 682 00:57:42,285 --> 00:58:00,285 And that is the motto that I want to leave in this conversation today that you're promoting choice in the Bitcoin ecosystem now known as eCash and that is the path forward for freedom. And that's why I champion what you're doing, Paul. Thank you for what you're doing. 683 00:58:01,285 --> 00:58:16,285 Well, thank you. Some people really understand the whole totality of it and other people only understand 75% of it. They get hung up on one part of it. But you really do get it and this is what this is about. This is a conversation about the future. 684 00:58:17,285 --> 00:58:26,285 So I think you're very modest in the way you present yourself and I think that's a lot. I think if anyone's going to fork Bitcoin, the best person is you because of the way you are. 685 00:58:26,285 --> 00:58:45,285 But I really do think that this project is extremely important and valuable to all of us. There's nothing like it in crypto history. There probably will never be anything like this ever again because you'll never be able to copy this, guys. 686 00:58:45,285 --> 00:59:04,285 Get this in your mind. The first one to do this, to implement sidechains effectively on a Bitcoin SHA-256 chain like what we will have with eCash will be the network that will give the entire world options, optionality. 687 00:59:04,285 --> 00:59:11,285 And I think that you're about to change the course of crypto history. 688 00:59:34,285 --> 00:59:57,285 So if there's an idea that everyone thinks is bad, that sort of increases your incentive to look into it yourself because you think, well, hey, a minute, if I do this, if I look into this and a couple other smart people look into it too, we can get in early and then we can slowly turn the tables on everyone once they figure out what's going on and once they figure out how many other people are involved so we can reach new levels of viability. 689 00:59:58,285 --> 01:00:10,285 You know what's interesting, Paul? Bitcoin right now is like no idea is welcome. eCash is proposing a version of Bitcoin which is all ideas are welcome. 690 01:00:11,285 --> 01:00:12,285 Right. 691 01:00:12,285 --> 01:00:20,285 The choice is clear, guys, and it's clear to me because to have choice is to have freedom. Thank you, Paul, for your time. 692 01:00:21,285 --> 01:00:22,285 Thank you. 693 01:00:22,285 --> 01:00:32,285 Really appreciate you, man. Keep up the good fight. And yeah, I'm all for it. Before we leave, Paul, where can people find out more about this project? 694 01:00:33,285 --> 01:00:56,285 Yeah, I would go to eCash.com and I would follow me on Twitter. I'm Truthcoin, T-R-U-T-H-C-O-I-N. I've had that for a while. It's titled Prediction Market Project, which I'm also bringing to eCash. But there will be a lot of other ways of getting the news, but those are the two to focus on for now. 695 01:00:58,285 --> 01:01:00,285 Thank you so much for your time, Paul. 696 01:01:00,285 --> 01:01:01,285 Thank you. 697 01:01:02,285 --> 01:01:15,285 Now we are dealing with a possible world war. Some will say we are already in a world war. My condolences and prayers go out to everyone suffering under tyranny. It really sucks. I'm really sorry. 698 01:01:15,285 --> 01:01:38,285 But it seems as if people are starting to wake up regarding crypto more and more each day. And so it's in the description right here to read where we give our secret sauce and what we teach our subscribers because things are just that bad. You know, everyone needs this information. People need to know about sound cryptocurrencies that are actually private by default and to know how to properly use crypto.