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Alright guys, it's been an eventful week, we'll have a lot to get into, Taiki's half

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dead, but he's here as well.

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I saw all the memecoin rugs and I've been dealing with a severe headache recently,
so

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apologies if I'm less talkative.

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We have a guest, we'll be learning about Bitcoin from someone, I think it's our
first Bitcoin,

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I don't want to say maxi, because he seems very open-minded, but Bitcoin-focused for

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sure.

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So Paul Sztorc is going to be with us, we'll talk memecoins, we'll talk markets,
we'll

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talk Bitcoin, and a lot of interesting stuff.

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So let's hit the intro, let's get going.

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Guys, episode 55, it's been quite a week, we have hopefully a continued recovery
happening,

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but we'll kick off maybe with what happened Monday morning, it was a bloodbath
across

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entire macro space, not just our little land of crypto, but I saw some of the
numbers in

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Nikkei and some of the Asian indexes, they were just having minus 14% days, which is

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pretty insane, that's a Solana shitcoin kind of daily volatility.

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Can you tell us what happened, Jordi, what's this Yen trade everyone was talking
about?

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Yeah, so basically the Bank of Japan has been trying to get out of their insanely
negative

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rates, they've been doing all this yield curve control, and they raised to like 25
bips,

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which is not a lot, but it's enough to get some of this free money that was
literally

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just borrowing for free back into Japan, and a lot of it was in things like the
Nasdaq.

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Lo and behold, Nasdaq collapses and suddenly the Yen goes up, and it was more than
expected,

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it seems like it rattled them so much that they came out the next day and put out
statements

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that we're going to slow down, don't worry, we're not going to just keep raising
like

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this, we're watching the markets.

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The Fed has not necessarily flinched, I think there is no emergency rate cut priced
in right

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now, and they're still looking at maybe just doing 25 bips in September, so this is
not

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like something that's immediately being fixed, there might be a continued rotation
out.

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But it feels to me that that was like one excuse, the main thing is just that
markets

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have been overvalued, we've seen a lot of the AI companies in the last few weeks
before

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this even happened start to have questions asked once earnings came out, you're
spending

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all this money to invest but there's no actual revenue.

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So hopefully it's just a healthy correction, but I would say unfortunately crypto
took

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a rather large hit, and a lot of our brethren had positions liquidated.

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Yeah, lots of people got hit pretty hard.

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So I'm curious, Jordy, we've been seeing rumors of I guess Jump just selling a bunch
of ETH,

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like I guess unstaking their staked ETH, sending it to exchanges.

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What do you think is happening there?

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Of course, it's all speculation, we don't really know.

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But do you buy the rumor that they're getting proved by the CFTC and they're exiting
the

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industry?

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What's your take on that entire situation?

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Yeah, so I'm very familiar with Jump as a broad company, I've been competing against

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them for my entire trading career.

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They're in the same markets all the time.

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And I know a lot of people that work there.

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So I understand how they operate.

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But it did take me by surprise that they suddenly sold off all the ETH.

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I think that they had recovered from the wormhole hack.

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There's like all this like 300 million that started getting sold off and I think is
now

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being eradicated into the market.

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I wasn't sure why it was happening.

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I was suspecting that maybe it was related to some settlement with the investigation

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going on as to their UST Luna repegging and all that.

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But the more we find out, it doesn't look like they are necessarily exiting crypto
completely.

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It's a very lucrative trading business.

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So even if they get out of some of this project VC type of stuff, they're still
going to be

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dominating the markets as they have been with their infrastructure advantage.

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So I can't imagine them switching that off.

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It definitely is a seven-figure-a-day business for them.

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But for whatever reason, they decided this was the time to sell an enormous amount
of

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ETH.

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We don't know what they did on Bitcoin side.

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There was a lot of weakness on Bitcoin before the macro mess started.

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And I have to say, I feel quite humbled because I did feel like after the Trump
speech, I

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was expecting that that was such a momentous occasion.

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And at the time, equity markets were at all-time highs.

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This was before they even flinched.

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I thought we were going to have a little bit of a breakout.

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And I couldn't put my finger on it.

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It just felt like there was somebody selling for no reason related to macro.

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And this is the thing with trading.

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You can get all the normal parameters.

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What's macro doing?

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What are stocks doing?

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What's the regulation doing?

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Everything looked positive.

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And somehow we were still hitting this resistance and selling off.

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And, yeah, I mean, we were questioning last week on our show whether it was the
government

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dumping on us.

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And it does feel like the external was selling, just chose that moment.

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Maybe it was Jump.

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Who do we blame this for?

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Jump, it's safe to say.

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There was a little video circulating with Kanav, who is no longer the president, but

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he was the ex-president.

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Maybe we can put a few seconds of this video up.

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Terra Luna was an algorithmic stable coin.

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We knew this thing didn't fucking work, but the young Asian kid had everyone fooled.

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Now, as the exclusive market makers for USDT, we controlled the peg.

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And, look, I know you're not following what I'm saying anyway, right?

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That's OK.

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That doesn't matter.

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The real question was this.

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Was all this legal?

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Absolutely fucking not.

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But we were making more money than we knew what to do with.

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There you go.

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It's pretty good.

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Kudos.

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Kudos to whoever put that together.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, it's been turbulent.

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Obviously, we've had a little bit of recovery.

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So the collapse hasn't eradicated everything.

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Bitcoin crossed back over 60 somehow after crossing below 50.

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So this has been a wild few days.

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We have Iggy Azalea, who is quite new to crypto, just now realized that Bitcoin is
going to

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crash, just now realizing how insane we are in the space.

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She says, I don't think I ever expected crypto to be this insane.

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Literally, one day it's to the moon, and then the next day it's all over.

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And you'll make up your minds.

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She's one of us.

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She's learning.

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She's learning.

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But yeah, I mean, I would say ETH has hit an all-time low of sentiment.

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We've been saying that for months, but I've never seen what I saw this week.

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Obviously, it underperformed Solana and Bitcoin.

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And we had Cain, you know, one of the main builders in DeFi of synthetics, just say,

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fuck it, and just publicly kind of go after Vitalik for not supporting, you know,
DeFi

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enough and maybe being a bit in the clouds.

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I don't know if we can find the tweet.

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But the good news is, for all ETH heads like Justin, I don't know if he's still part
of

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the club, but this tweet by Cain, where he says, if the only thing propping up your
chain

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for the last five years is DeFi, and the best you can muster is begrudgingly
tolerate it,

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you're anti-DeFi.

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This actually marked the bottom of ETH.

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You know, we've kind of rallied substantially since then.

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Well, I don't know about substantially.

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Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

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Let's bring up CoinGecko and see where we are.

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I haven't checked.

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And for a background for reviewers, I think Vitalik, he only supports like Maker and
Uniswap,

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and he doesn't really like anything else, which is kind of weird, right?

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But who knows?

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Maybe he's living in his own world.

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Well, I've also mentioned this.

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I've heard him speak just like Cain, and he has this sort of perspective of like,
I've

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already made it, and now that I've made it, and I don't actually think he thinks
this,

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but he comes across as like, I've made it, and now that I've made it, let's just
focus

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on making Ethereum like a public good for all, and let's focus on charity work and
not

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actually like building use cases that the people are interested in.

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Yeah.

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So yeah, just to quickly go here, I mean, you know, Bitcoin only down 5% on the
seventh

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day.

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Obviously, you know, it was going down slowly before that, as we said.

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But ETH down 15.

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Solana also down like around 5.

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So ETH still the underperformer, even though it's made a little bit of a bounce
back.

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So much pain.

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So much pain.

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Yeah.

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And some of the shit coins, I mean, Tron is up, XRP had some good settlement, and
Ton

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got listed on Binance.

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So some things are doing all right.

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But yeah, let's find out a little bit like, you know, why Bitcoin is so resilient.

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We have a guest that is deep in that land.

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So Paul Sztorc is here, CEO of LayerTwo Labs.

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Hello, Paul.

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Hello.

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Hey, guys.

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Thanks for having me.

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Absolutely.

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Can you tell us, like, what is LayerTwo Labs and, you know, what?

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Well, you know, I started this company because everyone in Bitcoin has just given up
on the

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goal of making Bitcoin something that 8 billion people would use and that would
change the

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world.

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And instead, people are settling for something very, very, very small, which is just
something

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that there's only 21 million units of.

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And there's no reason for it because we can very, very easily obtain all these other
things.

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It's just a stone's throw away.

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So that's why I started the company.

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And it's based around this idea of the sidechain or the Drivechain, more precisely.

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And that allows you to send Bitcoin to other pieces of software and back.

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And those pieces of software, they have their own blockchain.

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They have their own block size limit.

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They have their own code.

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They have their own features.

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So you can do is we have like a clone of Zcash.

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We have, you know, you get planetary scale immediately with sidechains because you
can

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just have as many as you like.

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And the issues of the full nodes costing a lot of money to run in the large block
universe,

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that doesn't really apply in the sidechain world because you can just kill the
sidechains

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off at any time and just restart them.

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So it's kind of like a caching layer in a way for Bitcoin.

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A lot of in many ways, it's like what people thought the Lightning Network would be.

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But people did not think about the Lightning Network.

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I think for the first time in the last month, I feel like even the Lightning Network
believers

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are kind of capitulating.

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Like it seems that that's not a very long time.

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Yeah, but it's finally happening.

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It's happening very slowly.

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I mean, there was a you could go to tab conferences ago, I think, which would be
nearly three

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years ago, since these are in late September, October.

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Matt Corallo gave a talk called Lightning is Broken AF.

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And then there was a subtitle that was like, and maybe we could fix it or whatever.

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But that part, that half of the presentation was not as persuasive as the first
half.

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The first half is broken.

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Because Lightning is broken.

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And then everyone just kind of keeps going through the motions.

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You know, everyone just keeps going through the motions.

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And you just always have these people who are like, you have all these people who
are

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just saying like, OK, they come to BitDevs or something and there's flood and loot.

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There's some attack.

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And then there's how to mitigate it.

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The whole thing is just a bunch of academic, you know, nonsense.

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How much do you get from the Bitcoin community these days?

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You go to the conference, you listen to like the Bitcoin.

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Yeah.

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Well, I thought you asked how much I'm very in the Bitcoin community.

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And I go to all the conferences and I talk to all the people.

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So if you want to know where the bodies are buried.

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Sorry.

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Yeah, it's a sentiment like very high, like, you know, at the moment with, I would
say

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like the, yeah, like the political acceptance and, you know, price doing relatively
pretty,

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pretty OK.

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Well, I think Bitcoin, unfortunately, has evolved a culture that is not the
self-criticism

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is is has diminished enormously from where it was like back in 2011, 2012.

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It was very strong.

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But now everyone's just supposed to get on board and, yeah, engineer the Trump bump
or

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this other stupid crap that people talk about.

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So.

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So, yeah, I do think that everyone.

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Yeah, you're not supposed to like criticize lightning too much because that's
stabbing

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Bitcoin in the back.

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If you say something like lightning is going to fuck up Bitcoin, it's these people
are

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empirically leeching the life out of Bitcoin.

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And if we want Bitcoin to succeed, we have to get rid of this idea.

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If you say something like that, you won't be as popular as if you're just like some

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Jack Mahlers and you just go up on stage and you just say everyone will be every CVS
will

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have lightning in eight months, which he said like three years ago or something,
something

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to that effect.

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00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:06,820
Justin, do you feel like this thing is just no one cares?

232
00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:08,500
Yeah, macro does the talk.

233
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:10,020
Bitcoin is broken and just no one cares.

234
00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:15,300
So the whole thing is unfortunately like just this weird cultural disaster, I think.

235
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:20,260
I feel like it could be worse in a theorem because there's this concept of a theorem

236
00:15:20,260 --> 00:15:25,780
alignment and projects and chains are either, you know, a theorem aligned and to
what extent

237
00:15:26,420 --> 00:15:31,060
it's like you get a report card from the theorem foundation and they say like, oh,
you know,

238
00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:35,700
you're not using the availability layer, you're using external DA.

239
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:38,180
So you're only like a 6.3 out of 10.

240
00:15:38,180 --> 00:15:38,820
We're not going to.

241
00:15:39,540 --> 00:15:42,980
And like there is this kind of politics and it does feel like people are getting a
little

242
00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:44,740
bit fed up with that part.

243
00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:46,020
Do you have any sense of this, Justin?

244
00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:48,980
It does seem like that's sort of fading away.

245
00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:54,100
I think to an extent for like the last, excluding the last three months when things
have sort

246
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:59,220
of changes before that, like the previous three, four years, you had this bankless
premium,

247
00:15:59,220 --> 00:16:03,380
I think, and this is oversimplifying a little bit, but like if bankless enjoyed your
project

248
00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:07,780
and talked about it, there's like a premium and crypto Twitter and just in the space
in

249
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:11,860
general of acceptance of this project, this project being in that good.

250
00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:14,180
Now, I think with the theory, I'm sort of faltering.

251
00:16:14,180 --> 00:16:20,260
I think obviously it's a little depressing seeing ETH BTC, ETH USD, sole ETH, ETH
doing

252
00:16:20,260 --> 00:16:22,500
so poorly across all three dimensions.

253
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:26,420
But I think now is a time where like you can be critical of ETH again, just like
Paul,

254
00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:28,580
you're saying like it's good to be critical of Bitcoin.

255
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:32,740
So I think that that tide is shifting as we go through this challenging period that
I

256
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:38,420
think Bitcoin really probably faced in what, 2022, 2021 to some extent when
everything

257
00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:41,780
was outperforming it and people were questioning the value of it.

258
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:44,260
Now, Bitcoin is having this renaissance of the values there.

259
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:45,700
It makes sense.

260
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:49,780
But we have that question again, where if it makes sense with Ethereum.

261
00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:54,420
And so I think like to the extent that this could be good for Ethereum with people
taking

262
00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:58,180
a step back and actually seeing like, how can we make sure we're building the best
chain

263
00:16:58,180 --> 00:16:59,700
possible for what we want to achieve?

264
00:17:00,580 --> 00:17:05,060
Yeah, I mean, Paul was telling us backstage about this sense of complacency.

265
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:08,820
And we were telling him like Ethereum has definitely had that same thing.

266
00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:14,100
And, you know, I run like a trading firm and there's where you just, the algos just
make

267
00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:14,820
money for months.

268
00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:19,060
You don't, you know, they just autopilot and you get complacent.

269
00:17:19,060 --> 00:17:20,820
Things change, the market changes.

270
00:17:20,820 --> 00:17:24,020
And then you start asking all the questions like, what's going wrong?

271
00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:27,700
What do we need to, and it's healthy because you can make the changes.

272
00:17:29,620 --> 00:17:31,380
Let's bring up this comment here.

273
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:33,940
Some people are asking about thoughts on Zcash.

274
00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:38,340
What's so funny?

275
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:42,180
How is that relevant?

276
00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:43,780
I mean, it's Zcash.

277
00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:45,540
Is that still relevant?

278
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:50,340
Well, I mean, Paul, you said like there's like a form of Zcash.

279
00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:51,700
You mentioned Zcash privacy.

280
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:52,020
Yeah.

281
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:56,740
So like a sidechain is good if it has an actual feature that people like.

282
00:17:56,740 --> 00:18:04,580
So this is like the Gwart, like it's so, I feel to give, it's giving someone too
much

283
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:07,780
credit to say this is like the Gwart critique that we have to care about the user.

284
00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:08,580
No, we love Gwart.

285
00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:10,020
We've had Gwart on.

286
00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:15,140
This should be like a basic one-on-one thing that everyone takes for granted.

287
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:19,140
But instead, this is the joke is that he just keeps writing these tweets about there
are

288
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:25,860
no users or, oh, I was going to try to improve the software for my users, but then I
remembered

289
00:18:25,860 --> 00:18:28,820
I don't have any users or, you know, stuff like that, like that type of joke.

290
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:36,420
So I mean, the Zcash is like doesn't have, they don't have users, but it's not
because

291
00:18:36,420 --> 00:18:37,300
the feature is bad.

292
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:43,700
The code actually is good, but they don't have users because of just network effect.

293
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:45,380
They have huge dev tax.

294
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:49,300
It's sinking the market price of the coin.

295
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:51,220
So it's like low on coin market cap.

296
00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:52,660
So this stigmatizes the coin.

297
00:18:53,620 --> 00:18:53,780
Yeah.

298
00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:58,020
I mean, Justin is laughing at me, but there's a reason why I bring up the Zcash as a
kind

299
00:18:58,020 --> 00:19:04,980
of entree into this topic, which is, you know, we often talk about monetary premium
and things

300
00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:10,020
like Zcash don't really have a, like they're meant to be money, right?

301
00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:14,740
Like that's kind of their intention, maybe it's privacy money, but it's meant to be
a

302
00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:16,180
form of currency.

303
00:19:16,180 --> 00:19:21,380
And yeah, you know, that's a sad chart when in a world where Bitcoin is like.

304
00:19:25,940 --> 00:19:26,180
Right.

305
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:29,300
But it's kind of, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said network effect.

306
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:34,420
And so my thoughts on Zcash are it doesn't have anywhere near the network effect.

307
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:38,740
So how can it be successful even if the tech is a little bit preferential?

308
00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:42,020
You need to reach such a high level.

309
00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:46,740
And I've tweeted about this for years that like the benchmark for monetary premium,
so

310
00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:50,900
to call it, is so high that it's not just a matter of like, you know, the tech is
OK.

311
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,420
You really need like, you know, millions, hopefully, like you said, billions of
people to

312
00:19:57,060 --> 00:20:01,620
participate and be distributed to have like a fairness factor where why are all the
coins

313
00:20:01,620 --> 00:20:02,180
where they are?

314
00:20:02,180 --> 00:20:07,940
OK, like there's a reason if Zcash suddenly like, you know, goes to the price of
Bitcoin

315
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:12,740
and you have Barry Silbert back from the back from the grave suddenly being our

316
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:16,340
overlord because he because he owns all of it, that's not going to work out much.

317
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:20,420
Well, I want to stress something about the sidechain point of view.

318
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:24,420
It's something of a paradox, because the sidechain point of view says, in one sense,

319
00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:29,060
we must copy all of the tech from everyone else.

320
00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:30,180
We want all the tech.

321
00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:37,380
So you have Bitcoin L1, but then you have Zcash L2 or you have Monero L2 or you have

322
00:20:37,460 --> 00:20:40,100
ETH L2 or you have Solana L2.

323
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,940
We don't want anyone to be turned away.

324
00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:47,780
But the paradox is that you also don't care about the tech because you because I
believe

325
00:20:47,780 --> 00:20:51,540
in this world where there will be sidechains in the future.

326
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:56,180
Once that happens, it won't nothing.

327
00:20:56,180 --> 00:20:57,700
Everyone will have equal tech.

328
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:01,860
So there's no point in like doing the R&D on the tech today because you will never

329
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:03,940
monetize.

330
00:21:03,940 --> 00:21:04,900
You can't monopolize it.

331
00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:10,340
The only thing that you that is not the only thing that's inimitable, the only thing
that

332
00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:13,060
you cannot imitate is the network effect.

333
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:18,500
And this is why Bitcoin, again, the whole thing is very nuanced because everything
kind

334
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:20,420
of contains its opposite in a way.

335
00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:23,780
But it's like Bitcoin has this strong network effect, which gives it all this
strength.

336
00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:30,420
But that also means that it can onboard all these useless parasites and it can just
like

337
00:21:30,420 --> 00:21:33,460
kind of like be too slow to innovate.

338
00:21:33,940 --> 00:21:37,700
There's a Mark Andreessen from A16Z.

339
00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:39,860
He always said this.

340
00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:45,300
He has this huge disagreement with Peter Thiel about Peter Thiel's pro-monopoly and
Mark

341
00:21:45,300 --> 00:21:46,580
Andreessen is anti-monopoly.

342
00:21:46,580 --> 00:21:52,340
And I really think Mark is right because he says the motto of every monopoly is we
don't

343
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:53,700
care because we don't have to.

344
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:56,900
So you're in this strong position.

345
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:58,340
You just think, well, I don't need to innovate.

346
00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:01,380
I don't need to put wheels on the, you know, on the line.

347
00:22:01,380 --> 00:22:03,780
Yeah, I mean, now that you talk about the innovation.

348
00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:10,180
So, you know, in my land of my other hat, like the VC hat, we're seeing a lot of
Bitcoin

349
00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:16,020
L2s, obviously, as you know, in the last year, there's Botanix and BitLayer and all
kinds

350
00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:18,500
of L2s built on Bitcoin.

351
00:22:20,980 --> 00:22:24,100
Are these, because L2s are different than sidechains, you know, they're actually
trying

352
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:25,060
to, I guess, like.

353
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:29,620
Well, my view is the sidechain is in the category of L2.

354
00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:34,100
This is an unfortunate thing where people really trip over the definitions of
things.

355
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,980
I think it's maybe not as important as people might think, the whole definition.

356
00:22:36,980 --> 00:22:38,580
I mean, let's just talk about the thing.

357
00:22:38,580 --> 00:22:42,740
Each, we could talk about each individual idea or a concept.

358
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:43,940
I don't know if that will help or not.

359
00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:50,740
But yeah, I mean, we've had things that are, you know, like Merlin, where it feels
like

360
00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:52,500
it's more of like a TVL game.

361
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:57,140
So, yeah, this is a new thing.

362
00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:06,260
I had honestly never really, people did not use the TVL phrase frequently.

363
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:11,780
It wasn't big, like I'd heard of it, but until very recently, right?

364
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:12,260
I don't know.

365
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:13,700
This is like the new.

366
00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:15,380
It's a DeFi thing.

367
00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:16,980
It started like in DeFi land, you know.

368
00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:23,140
So maybe it's a Bitcoin experience because in Bitcoin world, we just assume like all

369
00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:26,580
that ETH stuff will either just be copied into BTC or is like a scam.

370
00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:29,700
And of course, 99% of everything in the industry is a scam.

371
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,580
Yes, 99% is a scam.

372
00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:34,260
But can I just ask a qualifying question?

373
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:38,980
It is harder to develop applications on Bitcoin.

374
00:23:38,980 --> 00:23:39,700
We know that.

375
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:44,500
Ethereum and other chains, not just Ethereum now, have a flourishing ecosystem where
it's

376
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:45,380
easier to develop.

377
00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:50,500
Why will people, in your view, migrate all of this tech that they've spent building
in

378
00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:54,020
an environment that's friendly to building, move that over to Bitcoin where it's
really

379
00:23:54,020 --> 00:23:56,180
hard to do and Bitcoin's very behind?

380
00:23:56,180 --> 00:23:57,460
The builders will not.

381
00:23:57,460 --> 00:23:59,380
And they will fight it tooth and nail, in fact.

382
00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:03,380
But this is a Marxist theory that we should do whatever the workers want.

383
00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:06,340
And it's like the consumer will prefer.

384
00:24:07,220 --> 00:24:08,420
The consumer will look at the same tech stack.

385
00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:10,340
Why will the consumer prefer Bitcoin?

386
00:24:10,340 --> 00:24:15,380
Because you have Bitcoin versus ETH and Bitcoin has the network effect and it has
whatever,

387
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:18,580
Donald Trump and Michael Saylor, their savior.

388
00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:22,580
And if you buy Bitcoin, you get to suck Michael Saylor's dick or whatever.

389
00:24:22,580 --> 00:24:24,660
So that will be enough to just get everyone.

390
00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:25,780
So it's a price thing then?

391
00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:30,500
The price is not completely, again, it's a difficult thing.

392
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,340
It's all about what is inimitable.

393
00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:36,340
So there's only one person can be the number one slot.

394
00:24:36,340 --> 00:24:41,380
And then you roughly attract people in proportion to how big you already are.

395
00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:42,180
It's like gravity.

396
00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:43,700
So you have like a black hole.

397
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,380
It's sucking in more planets.

398
00:24:45,380 --> 00:24:46,340
It's becoming stronger.

399
00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:49,540
And this is just network effect reality.

400
00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:56,980
Now, I want to stress that the network effect is not, it's not like a one shot KO or
something.

401
00:24:56,980 --> 00:24:58,900
You know, it's not like the golden gun from...

402
00:24:59,386 --> 00:25:02,386
you know, a golden I64. It's not like you get the network effect and then you just
win.

403
00:25:02,386 --> 00:25:07,386
Yeah, because you were telling us before that you do think there's going to be one
winner, but you're not even 100% sure it's Bitcoin.

404
00:25:07,386 --> 00:25:11,386
I'm definitely not 100% sure. Yeah, I think it is Bitcoin.

405
00:25:11,386 --> 00:25:17,386
Let's do a little thought experiment. What if it's not Bitcoin and it is something
else?

406
00:25:17,386 --> 00:25:23,386
Is it going to be something, is it going to be Ethereum or is it going to be like
something that hasn't existed?

407
00:25:23,386 --> 00:25:33,386
I think it would be something new that is like sort of calculated to appeal to not
only the existing network effects people,

408
00:25:33,386 --> 00:25:41,386
but also just new users, because there's got to be a rotation when you have your
investing hat.

409
00:25:41,386 --> 00:25:49,386
So you think, OK, I'll buy this for $10, but then the price will go to $100 and then
the price will go to $1,000.

410
00:25:50,386 --> 00:25:56,386
There eventually will reach a point where the market price cannot increase anymore.

411
00:25:56,386 --> 00:26:06,386
And the only way to justify holding the coin is that it does become money or has
some kind of convenience yield or it does something.

412
00:26:06,386 --> 00:26:16,386
The coin has to be doing something. So it does have to eventually translate from
basically equity into revenue, so to speak.

413
00:26:16,386 --> 00:26:22,386
I mean, this is speaking very loosely here, but the market price is sort of like the
stock price.

414
00:26:22,386 --> 00:26:28,386
And then this is, again, kind of loose. But it's like the transaction fees paid in
the block.

415
00:26:28,386 --> 00:26:31,386
That is kind of like the sales or the revenue or something.

416
00:26:31,386 --> 00:26:43,386
When you see attempts like Zcash to make an alternative or Monero or you could even
say Luna, this type of thing.

417
00:26:44,386 --> 00:26:53,386
I have a similar mental construct as you in that I see them as they're like rockets
trying to escape the atmosphere and they go up.

418
00:26:53,386 --> 00:26:58,386
But if they don't actually escape the gravitational pull, they just come back down
and crash.

419
00:26:58,386 --> 00:27:02,386
But maybe one day one of them will, if it's designed very well.

420
00:27:02,386 --> 00:27:11,386
Right. I think the rocket is a great metaphor because there are so many, at least in
the pre-Elon, pre the Elon revolution, praise Elon.

421
00:27:11,386 --> 00:27:19,386
But there was many stages and you would have to do everything in the exact right
order and separate and do all this stuff.

422
00:27:19,386 --> 00:27:25,386
And you had to have the life support working. So it's a very complicated project.

423
00:27:25,386 --> 00:27:33,386
And it also crucially depended on timing. You accelerate the rocket at the right
speed and you will make it out.

424
00:27:33,386 --> 00:27:41,386
But if you go too fast or too slow, the friction, you either burn up or you'll run
out of fuel before you get far enough away.

425
00:27:41,386 --> 00:27:47,386
Or you also, or you'll, the pressure will not be right and the chamber will explode.

426
00:27:47,386 --> 00:27:52,386
So you have to thread a needle through a high, very high dimensional space.

427
00:27:52,386 --> 00:27:54,386
I think that's exactly the same.

428
00:27:54,386 --> 00:27:57,386
Can I ask a question, Paul?

429
00:27:57,386 --> 00:28:02,386
Sure, sure. But let me just say something about Zcash, which is it's debatable
whether or not Zcash,

430
00:28:02,386 --> 00:28:09,386
how committed they really are. A lot of people just, they want to work on their
little tech baby, you know?

431
00:28:09,386 --> 00:28:11,386
And they think, oh, I'll get someone to fund this.

432
00:28:11,386 --> 00:28:16,386
And then a lot of things in the space, many of these L2s, many of the altcoins,

433
00:28:16,386 --> 00:28:22,386
there's just, people are not actually focused on building something that a lot of
people use and enjoy.

434
00:28:22,386 --> 00:28:27,386
They actually are not. It's the tech people want to work on their own tech that they
like.

435
00:28:27,386 --> 00:28:34,386
A lot of people are doing money laundering and the altcoin is just a vehicle for
that.

436
00:28:34,386 --> 00:28:40,386
And, or they're just, you know, they're just, it's not even in the case of Zcash.

437
00:28:40,386 --> 00:28:44,386
It's could just be with Litecoin and stuff. People just want to move their coins
around a lot.

438
00:28:44,386 --> 00:28:47,386
Shuffle the coins around. They want to have a lot of different stuff.

439
00:28:47,386 --> 00:28:53,386
I do think a lot of people say, like, there used to be, like,

440
00:28:53,386 --> 00:29:00,386
Ricardo Spogni, creator of Monero, not quite the creator, but, you know, the lead
guy, lead spokesperson.

441
00:29:00,386 --> 00:29:04,386
He used to say, like, you should put $500 into every shitcoin.

442
00:29:04,386 --> 00:29:10,386
And this is partly what you should do if you think one of them will win

443
00:29:10,386 --> 00:29:15,386
and it will become this huge asset that is worth, you know, if there were 21 million
units,

444
00:29:15,386 --> 00:29:20,386
it would be $20, $30 million per coin. But you don't know which one.

445
00:29:20,386 --> 00:29:23,386
Well, yeah, then you should be throwing $500 into.

446
00:29:23,386 --> 00:29:25,386
What do you think about, like, all these, like, runes?

447
00:29:25,386 --> 00:29:29,386
But Justin had a, he had a thing that he was going to say first, right?

448
00:29:29,386 --> 00:29:30,386
We have to go in the right order.

449
00:29:30,386 --> 00:29:32,386
Thank you, Paul, our new moderator.

450
00:29:32,386 --> 00:29:37,386
You know, you mentioned Peter Thiel, so I wanted to circle back to it.

451
00:29:37,386 --> 00:29:43,386
Peter Thiel has this theory, like, to supplant the existing competitor that has
already a foothold in the market,

452
00:29:43,386 --> 00:29:45,386
you have to build something 10x better.

453
00:29:45,386 --> 00:29:49,386
So, like, an example would be, like, Uber 10x better than taxis, so everyone's going
to switch to it.

454
00:29:49,386 --> 00:29:55,386
You talked before and you were sort of just talking about now people migrating over
to Bitcoin from Ethereum land

455
00:29:55,386 --> 00:29:57,386
or existing smart contract land.

456
00:29:57,386 --> 00:30:00,386
But I just don't see that happening, right?

457
00:30:00,386 --> 00:30:02,386
Like stable coins on Bitcoin are not going to be 10x better.

458
00:30:02,386 --> 00:30:05,386
An AMM on Bitcoin is not going to be 10x better.

459
00:30:05,386 --> 00:30:07,386
But I actually throw it around.

460
00:30:07,386 --> 00:30:12,386
I kind of throw it around back at you and say, I don't think the Ethereum, I don't
think the Ethereum,

461
00:30:13,386 --> 00:30:17,386
most of these, the early, right now, it's still kind of early days, actually,

462
00:30:17,386 --> 00:30:20,386
because it's not a function of time.

463
00:30:20,386 --> 00:30:23,386
It's a function of, like, users versus employees.

464
00:30:23,386 --> 00:30:28,386
So, like, if we were going to build something like an amusement park, we haven't let
the normal people in.

465
00:30:28,386 --> 00:30:31,386
We're still, like, building the rides and testing them, like, on ourselves.

466
00:30:31,386 --> 00:30:36,386
It's like real mechanical engineers are riding the rides to make sure that they
don't, like, explode or whatever,

467
00:30:36,386 --> 00:30:38,386
whatever the metaphor is.

468
00:30:38,386 --> 00:30:45,386
But we haven't let, the laypeople still don't understand what the point of this
technology is.

469
00:30:45,386 --> 00:30:49,386
And we don't have a lot of normal users, if that makes sense.

470
00:30:49,386 --> 00:30:52,386
I'm trying to say, like, grandma or whatever, like, layperson.

471
00:30:52,386 --> 00:30:54,386
And people still don't quite get it.

472
00:30:54,386 --> 00:30:58,386
Like, they don't quite, although now I think people are getting closer.

473
00:30:58,386 --> 00:31:01,386
One of the things that's closer is, like, the Web3 login.

474
00:31:01,386 --> 00:31:06,386
And, but, like, transactions use case has been suppressed.

475
00:31:06,386 --> 00:31:10,386
The DeFi use case is very hard for people to understand because to a regular person,

476
00:31:10,386 --> 00:31:15,386
it really looks as though it's just a bunch of useless stuff that's all being
rearranged.

477
00:31:15,386 --> 00:31:22,386
You know, it's like a casino where you, it's either it is just a casino or it's a
casino with chips that you can't cash out.

478
00:31:22,386 --> 00:31:27,386
Or, like, people don't, they don't understand what the social function of this is.

479
00:31:27,386 --> 00:31:32,386
They don't agree that it's a bank, like Bitcoin, saying we're going to replace the
banks with something better.

480
00:31:32,386 --> 00:31:34,386
But people don't agree with that yet.

481
00:31:34,386 --> 00:31:41,386
Whenever I listen to, like, Bitcoin podcasts and dive into that world, and I have
dived in pretty deep.

482
00:31:41,386 --> 00:31:48,386
It does feel like, you know, there's been this ongoing purity test of, you know,
nothing else matters.

483
00:31:48,386 --> 00:31:51,386
It's just the asset and we're trying to replace fiat currency.

484
00:31:51,386 --> 00:31:52,386
That's it.

485
00:31:52,386 --> 00:31:59,386
Versus you see more open-minded cap and even Michael Saylor, you know, since he's so
invested in miners and everything else.

486
00:31:59,386 --> 00:32:04,386
He's been happy with some of the, you know, recent renaissance of ordinals and runes
and, you know.

487
00:32:04,386 --> 00:32:06,386
Michael Saylor is truthfully happy with the ordinals.

488
00:32:06,386 --> 00:32:11,386
I think he did a quick calculation politically in his head and he was like, this has
already happened.

489
00:32:11,386 --> 00:32:13,386
It has some people who really like it.

490
00:32:13,386 --> 00:32:17,386
It has some people who really hate it, but they are on the losing side.

491
00:32:17,386 --> 00:32:26,386
So I think that he, I don't think that he would get out of, I don't think he got out
of bed like three years ago and said,

492
00:32:26,386 --> 00:32:31,386
Oh, you know what Bitcoin really needs is more tokens on BTC.

493
00:32:31,386 --> 00:32:32,386
Right.

494
00:32:32,386 --> 00:32:34,386
I don't think that that's how he thinks at all.

495
00:32:34,386 --> 00:32:38,386
But I want to just finish what I was saying to Justin, which is we haven't, no one
has opened the door.

496
00:32:38,386 --> 00:32:42,386
There's like Bitcoin park, Bitcoin theme park and Ethereum theme park.

497
00:32:42,386 --> 00:32:44,386
And no one has really opened the doors yet.

498
00:32:44,386 --> 00:32:46,386
In my opinion, it's still early.

499
00:32:46,386 --> 00:33:04,386
People have yet to actually deploy something that I think is a consumer facing app
with the exception of stuff like ordinals and runes and ERC20 and stuff like where
people just like to just have meme coins.

500
00:33:04,386 --> 00:33:07,386
Meme coin is like the first ride.

501
00:33:07,386 --> 00:33:13,386
And so I actually think that the question is flipped around where eventually the
doors will be open for Bitcoin and for ETH.

502
00:33:13,386 --> 00:33:18,386
And ETH will just be, it'll be something that has the same features as BTC, but it
won't be number one on coin market cap.

503
00:33:18,386 --> 00:33:24,386
And so that's why I think people, it's Ethereum that's not 10x better than BTC yet.

504
00:33:24,386 --> 00:33:30,386
Although there's no limit to how complacent BTC can get and how badly we can screw
everything up.

505
00:33:30,386 --> 00:33:39,386
We're already, we already have many address formats and we already have, now you
cannot import a private key because the wallet is being deleted.

506
00:33:39,386 --> 00:33:43,386
And we now have descriptor wallets, which are like made by the devil.

507
00:33:43,386 --> 00:33:46,386
So, so pretty soon it'll all just be ruined.

508
00:33:46,386 --> 00:33:47,386
Yeah.

509
00:33:47,386 --> 00:33:49,386
In another three or four years.

510
00:33:49,386 --> 00:33:50,386
Yeah.

511
00:33:50,386 --> 00:33:51,386
Just to keep on track.

512
00:33:51,386 --> 00:34:00,386
So we did mention like, you know, some of the, like you said, shit coins that maybe
are the first ride, but there's a lot of people in Bitcoin land that don't like this
kind of stuff.

513
00:34:00,386 --> 00:34:01,386
They don't want the NFTs.

514
00:34:01,386 --> 00:34:02,386
They don't want any of this stuff.

515
00:34:02,386 --> 00:34:04,386
You seem to be okay that let people play.

516
00:34:04,386 --> 00:34:05,386
How about a ride?

517
00:34:05,386 --> 00:34:06,386
It's fine.

518
00:34:06,386 --> 00:34:07,386
Consumer sovereignty.

519
00:34:07,386 --> 00:34:08,386
Yeah.

520
00:34:08,386 --> 00:34:14,386
Is OP_CAT going to be a good idea and kind of.

521
00:34:14,386 --> 00:34:22,386
Well, the OP_CAT is a good idea, but there's many dimensions to this, which is why
haven't we done many soft forks right now?

522
00:34:22,386 --> 00:34:24,386
We used to do three or so a year or two.

523
00:34:24,386 --> 00:34:26,386
We used to average two a year.

524
00:34:26,386 --> 00:34:28,386
It was not hit that way.

525
00:34:28,386 --> 00:34:37,386
But once we did three in one single go in the end of 2015, we did check lock time,
verify, check sequence, verify, and like something else.

526
00:34:37,386 --> 00:34:39,386
I don't remember the exact list, but anyone can look it up.

527
00:34:39,386 --> 00:34:44,386
I have tweeted about this list before, and you can just see many soft forks in the
past.

528
00:34:44,386 --> 00:34:49,386
Then with SegWit, the political will to do the soft fork collapsed.

529
00:34:50,386 --> 00:34:56,386
So my view is that the reason why OP_CAT is now getting attention is because it's
very short.

530
00:34:56,386 --> 00:35:02,386
It's only a few lines of code, whatever, 11, 14, 15, depending on how you count.

531
00:35:02,386 --> 00:35:04,386
And it's very small.

532
00:35:04,386 --> 00:35:08,386
It just concatenates two things and puts them back on the stack.

533
00:35:08,386 --> 00:35:09,386
So it's pretty simple.

534
00:35:09,386 --> 00:35:11,386
Why is it not happening?

535
00:35:12,386 --> 00:35:25,386
So I think that what people are doing is people are slowly realizing that it's like
you have – I'm not sure what great metaphor I can come up with.

536
00:35:25,386 --> 00:35:28,386
But it's like you have this – the patient is sick.

537
00:35:28,386 --> 00:35:31,386
The soft fork can cure any disease.

538
00:35:31,386 --> 00:35:34,386
But people are slowly realizing we actually can't.

539
00:35:34,386 --> 00:35:38,386
The medicine box that has the cure, the soft fork, we can't get it open.

540
00:35:38,386 --> 00:35:43,386
And now people are just panicking, and they think, well, OP_CAT, that is pretty
simple.

541
00:35:43,386 --> 00:35:48,386
And Udi and Eric, they shrewdly calculated.

542
00:35:48,386 --> 00:35:50,386
They figured this out before.

543
00:35:50,386 --> 00:35:53,386
They said, okay, they understand the lay of the land.

544
00:35:53,386 --> 00:36:05,386
So they knew OP_CAT would be the one that people would focus on because all this
other stuff about CTV has been corrupted because Jeremy Rubin is the scapegoat.

545
00:36:05,386 --> 00:36:06,386
Jeremy Rubin did nothing wrong.

546
00:36:06,386 --> 00:36:10,386
Like all scapegoats, Jeremy Rubin did nothing wrong and, in fact, did everything
right heroically.

547
00:36:10,386 --> 00:36:12,386
I don't even know who Jeremy Rubin is.

548
00:36:12,386 --> 00:36:13,386
He created CTV.

549
00:36:13,386 --> 00:36:16,386
Check template verify.

550
00:36:16,386 --> 00:36:20,386
It's Joseph Rubin's brother.

551
00:36:20,386 --> 00:36:27,386
I think we're learning more and more about the multi-year drama of Bitcoin land.

552
00:36:27,386 --> 00:36:33,386
Yeah, I've got all the Bitcoin lore that you want and probably too much.

553
00:36:33,386 --> 00:36:37,386
So if it goes on and on, I mean, I don't have any specific question.

554
00:36:37,386 --> 00:36:39,386
But you asked about OP_CAT.

555
00:36:39,386 --> 00:36:43,386
I'm telling you, like, the OP_CAT part is not the relevant part.

556
00:36:43,386 --> 00:36:44,386
Yes, OP_CAT is a good idea.

557
00:36:44,386 --> 00:36:48,386
Yes, we can and should add it with Soft Fork.

558
00:36:48,386 --> 00:36:52,386
I have a way, by the way, this thing, CUSF, I have coded a way.

559
00:36:52,386 --> 00:36:57,386
If you go to BIP300CUSF.com, I have an OP_CAT CUSF in addition to BIP300.

560
00:36:57,386 --> 00:36:59,386
This is a Core Untouched Soft Fork.

561
00:36:59,386 --> 00:37:06,386
So this is a way of activating OP_CAT without even changing Bitcoin core on GitHub or
changing the binary of Bitcoin core.

562
00:37:06,386 --> 00:37:07,386
You have a second.

563
00:37:07,386 --> 00:37:11,386
Somebody in the chat is asking if you've got a quantum cat.

564
00:37:11,386 --> 00:37:21,386
I don't have one yet, but I feel like my relationship with Eric and Udi is, you
know, I feel like I should be getting stuff from them.

565
00:37:21,386 --> 00:37:23,386
The floor price has been pretty steady.

566
00:37:23,386 --> 00:37:27,386
I feel like lots of diamond hands in the quantum.

567
00:37:27,386 --> 00:37:28,386
But those guys are great.

568
00:37:28,386 --> 00:37:36,386
You know, here's what I wanted to bring up about this is I don't think that they
even care.

569
00:37:36,386 --> 00:37:44,386
I think what they understand, OP_CAT does a lot of things because there's already op
codes that can do other parts of what is basically a Merkle tree.

570
00:37:44,386 --> 00:37:46,386
So I'm glossing over some technical stuff here.

571
00:37:46,386 --> 00:37:56,386
But basically, if you want to have these trees of things that are very compressible
because they're like Merkle tree, the OP_CAT is the only missing ingredient.

572
00:37:56,386 --> 00:37:58,386
So it's not the OP_CAT part.

573
00:37:58,386 --> 00:38:03,386
It's like they want this other thing where they want to do these various roll ups
and things that they want to unlock.

574
00:38:03,386 --> 00:38:04,386
ZK proofs.

575
00:38:04,386 --> 00:38:05,386
Yeah.

576
00:38:05,386 --> 00:38:06,386
Right.

577
00:38:06,386 --> 00:38:17,386
And so I think like Udi and Eric, the Taproot Wizards people, the OP_CAT people, some
of the meme people.

578
00:38:17,386 --> 00:38:18,386
I'm talking about the meme people.

579
00:38:18,386 --> 00:38:19,386
I'm not talking about the technologists.

580
00:38:19,386 --> 00:38:20,386
Yeah, you know, the meme people.

581
00:38:20,386 --> 00:38:21,386
Exactly.

582
00:38:21,386 --> 00:38:22,386
Yeah.

583
00:38:22,386 --> 00:38:28,386
They just like they think that it's kind of like siblings and they can tell one of
the siblings really wants something.

584
00:38:28,386 --> 00:38:33,386
So then they kind of like, oh, they play with that toy first, but they don't really
want it.

585
00:38:33,386 --> 00:38:34,386
They're just like that.

586
00:38:34,386 --> 00:38:35,386
No, this is mine now.

587
00:38:35,386 --> 00:38:37,386
Now you have to ask me for it or something like that.

588
00:38:37,386 --> 00:38:41,386
They're playing some kind of like funny little game with that, which is which is
fine enough.

589
00:38:41,386 --> 00:38:44,386
But it just shows you this whole process is completely irrational and defective.

590
00:38:44,386 --> 00:38:52,386
What in a sane world, all the miners would know or they would have some kind of
counsel or they have some kind of thing where they just think in their head.

591
00:38:52,386 --> 00:38:54,386
Will this make us more money?

592
00:38:54,386 --> 00:38:56,386
Will we get more transaction fees?

593
00:38:56,386 --> 00:38:58,386
Will we get a higher Bitcoin exchange rate?

594
00:38:58,386 --> 00:39:02,386
And then they would do it and there would be no nothing else would happen.

595
00:39:02,386 --> 00:39:10,386
But instead, all this other crazy nonsense happens because of block size war and
other soft work drama that is this is strangling.

596
00:39:10,386 --> 00:39:20,386
Well, Paul, let me let us give you a sense of, you know, the crazy nonsense that can
potentially happen on Bitcoin.

597
00:39:20,386 --> 00:39:21,386
We have a segment.

598
00:39:21,386 --> 00:39:26,386
We have a segment this week called what's new in meme coin land.

599
00:39:26,386 --> 00:39:34,386
And you'll hear kind of like for a few minutes, some of the crazy things just this
week in meme coin land happening.

600
00:39:34,386 --> 00:39:36,386
A lot can happen.

601
00:39:36,386 --> 00:39:37,386
A lot can happen.

602
00:39:37,386 --> 00:39:39,386
We each have a story about a different meme coin.

603
00:39:39,386 --> 00:39:41,386
So we have three meme coins we're going to get into.

604
00:39:41,386 --> 00:39:46,386
But everybody, please like and subscribe and we'll we'll dive in.

605
00:39:46,386 --> 00:39:52,386
Maybe Taiki, you want to you want to maybe start with like the Pacmoon drama?

606
00:39:52,386 --> 00:39:53,386
Yeah, sure.

607
00:39:53,386 --> 00:39:56,386
I mean, maybe this is like the least controversial out of the three.

608
00:39:56,386 --> 00:40:03,386
But, you know, Pacmoon was, you know, obviously based off of Pacman, right?

609
00:40:03,386 --> 00:40:07,386
The founder of Blast, you know, Pacmoon to the moon or whatever they were talking
about.

610
00:40:07,386 --> 00:40:12,386
I think they had like a hundred million dollar market gap during the Blast farming
season.

611
00:40:12,386 --> 00:40:22,386
And there's been a lot of drama between the Pacmoon founder and the Blast Foundation
because the Blast Foundation is not really supporting native coins within their
ecosystem.

612
00:40:22,386 --> 00:40:29,386
So now Pacmoon has decided to leave Blast for Solana, I believe, which makes no
sense.

613
00:40:29,386 --> 00:40:34,386
But, I mean, you know, I guess it drives more attention, right?

614
00:40:34,386 --> 00:40:37,386
Complaining about this on Twitter gets like thousands of impressions.

615
00:40:37,386 --> 00:40:41,386
So maybe it's good for the token price because otherwise no one would care about it.

616
00:40:42,386 --> 00:40:52,386
It's pretty rough for the chain if the literal meme coin based off the founder of
the chain just says, like, screw it, we're leaving.

617
00:40:52,386 --> 00:40:56,386
Yeah, I don't really know what their vision is.

618
00:40:56,386 --> 00:40:58,386
There's some utility.

619
00:40:58,386 --> 00:41:00,386
I think they're trying to be like this social pie, right?

620
00:41:00,386 --> 00:41:08,386
Where Pacmoon is this, you know, tipping token where if you post something and
people like it, then you can send other people like Pacmoon and stuff.

621
00:41:08,386 --> 00:41:11,386
It did pump a lot, you know, like around May, like 100 million.

622
00:41:11,386 --> 00:41:14,386
Now it's close to 100.

623
00:41:14,386 --> 00:41:20,386
And now it's, yeah, it's in the depths of it looks like a Blast token chart,
basically.

624
00:41:20,386 --> 00:41:24,386
It kind of pumped when they said they're going to Solana, at least like a little
bit.

625
00:41:24,386 --> 00:41:28,386
And it reminds me that things have changed since like a year ago.

626
00:41:28,386 --> 00:41:30,386
This time it was the exact opposite.

627
00:41:30,386 --> 00:41:36,386
I think Rollbit had changed their token from an SPL to ERC-20 and started mooning
because they kind of tapped into the liquidity.

628
00:41:36,386 --> 00:41:38,386
And now the liquidity has moved.

629
00:41:38,386 --> 00:41:47,386
So, yeah, I mean, I saw Pacman himself put out a statement after this happened and
saying, you know, sorry, like we will be supporting.

630
00:41:47,386 --> 00:41:49,386
It just took a while.

631
00:41:49,386 --> 00:41:54,386
And these guys left before we were going to about to do it.

632
00:41:54,386 --> 00:42:00,386
So, I mean, as a founder, like it definitely makes you reflect and see.

633
00:42:00,386 --> 00:42:04,386
And I don't know how much how much a change should support.

634
00:42:04,386 --> 00:42:07,386
Obviously, like Solana has been supporting their meme coins quite a bit.

635
00:42:07,386 --> 00:42:11,386
I think a lot of it has to do is like just look at the Blast token price.

636
00:42:11,386 --> 00:42:13,386
The FDV is now about a billion.

637
00:42:13,386 --> 00:42:15,386
It's basically been down only mode.

638
00:42:15,386 --> 00:42:19,386
People thought this thing would be 5x higher from here or even more than that.

639
00:42:19,386 --> 00:42:27,386
And I think like to some extent, the Pacmoon meme coin founder, like the price is
going down on Blast.

640
00:42:27,386 --> 00:42:29,386
Their meme coin is going to go down with it.

641
00:42:29,386 --> 00:42:32,386
And there's just this desire to do something and move chains.

642
00:42:32,386 --> 00:42:37,386
I don't know if like it's sort of my theory that people are going to be upset no
matter what you do if price goes down.

643
00:42:37,386 --> 00:42:45,386
And, you know, I don't know how much this is the desire to go to Solana, even though
there's more speculation there and just the relative underperformance of Blast.

644
00:42:45,386 --> 00:42:54,386
But I don't really blame Pacman for this, for not, you know, providing the right
incentives for builders and token launchers on the Blast chain.

645
00:42:55,386 --> 00:42:57,386
Yeah.

646
00:42:57,386 --> 00:43:01,386
We'll see if they I think it looks like they rebranded the army.

647
00:43:01,386 --> 00:43:04,386
So we'll see if they're successful.

648
00:43:04,386 --> 00:43:06,386
Okay.

649
00:43:06,386 --> 00:43:07,386
The right name.

650
00:43:07,386 --> 00:43:09,386
It doesn't matter what it does.

651
00:43:09,386 --> 00:43:13,386
You know, this is what you're building for on Bitcoin.

652
00:43:13,386 --> 00:43:20,386
I do think that this type of thing should be allowed, even though it should not
really be like emphasized or encouraged.

653
00:43:20,386 --> 00:43:21,386
Yeah.

654
00:43:21,386 --> 00:43:22,386
It's celebrated.

655
00:43:22,386 --> 00:43:23,386
Right.

656
00:43:23,386 --> 00:43:33,386
What it is, the whole securitization process, like the idea that someone you have
someone, an entrepreneur with a good idea who's poor.

657
00:43:33,386 --> 00:43:38,386
And then you have some rich people down the street who get money under the mattress
doing nothing.

658
00:43:38,386 --> 00:43:52,386
And the question is, should the poor person work as a janitor for 20 years, save up
a lot of money and then launch their idea, their idea for a new engine or something?

659
00:43:52,386 --> 00:43:56,386
You know, that's a horrible way to run society.

660
00:43:56,386 --> 00:43:57,386
There's a shortage.

661
00:43:57,386 --> 00:44:02,386
We definitely I knew new ideas is.

662
00:44:02,386 --> 00:44:03,386
That is in short supply.

663
00:44:03,386 --> 00:44:10,386
And so the idea that you'd go to the rich people and you say, I'll give you shares
in this corporation, I'll pay you back after the engine makes a lot of money, I'll
pay you back.

664
00:44:10,386 --> 00:44:11,386
Give me the cash now.

665
00:44:11,386 --> 00:44:12,386
That's doing nothing.

666
00:44:12,386 --> 00:44:14,386
They get a return.

667
00:44:14,386 --> 00:44:21,386
The entrepreneur who's poor quits their stupid job that is poorly allocated with
their labor is inefficient.

668
00:44:21,386 --> 00:44:23,386
So this is like why we would want people.

669
00:44:23,386 --> 00:44:24,386
I don't understand.

670
00:44:24,386 --> 00:44:31,386
I'm going to say issuing coins is issuing stocks, collectibles, having like being
able to join control who's in a club.

671
00:44:31,386 --> 00:44:33,386
You start a club with your friends.

672
00:44:33,386 --> 00:44:39,386
You say whatever, a baseball club or whatever you and and to be able to bet on
things.

673
00:44:39,386 --> 00:44:41,386
All this stuff is that's very healthy.

674
00:44:41,386 --> 00:44:48,386
But the idea of just creating something and just saying this is a Pac-Man coin.

675
00:44:48,386 --> 00:44:51,386
This is all because we don't have good banking, I think.

676
00:44:51,386 --> 00:44:58,386
Actually, none of this would happen if if Bitcoin, if the Bitcoin network worked for
banking, if it had already taken over.

677
00:44:58,386 --> 00:45:00,386
No one would want to do this, I think.

678
00:45:00,386 --> 00:45:05,386
Or it would just be like there will be there will be no such thing as banking.

679
00:45:05,386 --> 00:45:07,386
We're going to want to gamble.

680
00:45:07,386 --> 00:45:11,386
There is recreational gambling is, of course, things that some of the people do
anyway.

681
00:45:11,386 --> 00:45:18,386
But but I think that there's nothing wrong with like people should be allowed to do
what should be allowed to do this.

682
00:45:18,386 --> 00:45:27,386
But we want to live in a world where we there are so many other ways of just taking
a gamble on something.

683
00:45:27,386 --> 00:45:35,386
Like what if someone said three entrepreneurs are starting a new whatever spaceship
company or something.

684
00:45:35,386 --> 00:45:38,386
And you kind of research them all and you think, I don't know.

685
00:45:38,386 --> 00:45:47,386
And then you and your friends, you kind of like have fun and you say, I'll mostly
invest in a you mostly invest in B, you mostly invest in C.

686
00:45:47,386 --> 00:45:52,386
Well, now you're still getting all the fun of recreational gambling, but you're
actually funding a real thing.

687
00:45:52,386 --> 00:45:55,386
Paul, Paul, Paul, like zoomers don't have that attention span.

688
00:45:55,386 --> 00:46:00,386
They want to bet on hamster race, you know, which which hamster is going to go
quicker than 10 years.

689
00:46:00,386 --> 00:46:02,386
Doesn't I think you may be right about that.

690
00:46:02,386 --> 00:46:09,386
I think the zoomers may actually be it's it's it's a it's a cliche to to put down a
certain generation.

691
00:46:09,386 --> 00:46:13,386
But I do think it's hard to do. It's hard to survive without an attention span.

692
00:46:13,386 --> 00:46:19,386
I think it's hard. It's hard to make a lot of money also or like do anything
important and anything worth doing in life.

693
00:46:19,386 --> 00:46:22,386
Like can these people could these people even play like SimCity?

694
00:46:22,386 --> 00:46:30,386
I wonder about like if they would even be able to play that game, like something
that people people born in the 80s thought was really fun.

695
00:46:30,386 --> 00:46:34,386
Yeah, like run the city and run the traffic and run the taxis.

696
00:46:34,386 --> 00:46:39,386
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if Gen Z would like just kill themselves.

697
00:46:39,386 --> 00:46:42,386
Like after 10 minutes of that, I think they would.

698
00:46:42,386 --> 00:46:46,386
And I think you'll agree after these two to two more meme coins.

699
00:46:46,386 --> 00:46:49,386
Justin, you want to go? Yeah.

700
00:46:49,386 --> 00:46:57,386
So I took my first real big hit of the 2024 year on the Trump from the Trump guys,
the Trump boys.

701
00:46:57,386 --> 00:47:04,386
So Donald Trump Jr. and the other brother for the past week or so, starting on like
October 6th, 7th,

702
00:47:04,386 --> 00:47:08,386
they have been hyping up this idea that the Trumps were going to launch a project in
the crypto space,

703
00:47:08,386 --> 00:47:12,386
which it sounds like they're still standing by and they're still going to do.

704
00:47:12,386 --> 00:47:14,386
There was speculation on around the seventh.

705
00:47:14,386 --> 00:47:17,386
This was going to be like a real world assets, real estate company.

706
00:47:17,386 --> 00:47:20,386
People were looking into the trademarks, the filings.

707
00:47:20,386 --> 00:47:24,386
Everyone was getting excited. Fast forward to this all happened yesterday.

708
00:47:24,386 --> 00:47:26,386
Things are moving very quickly.

709
00:47:26,386 --> 00:47:31,386
A new token was deployed on Solana called RTR, Restore the Republic.

710
00:47:31,386 --> 00:47:35,386
And in sort of all of the established group chats on Telegram,

711
00:47:35,386 --> 00:47:40,386
a lot of established and well-known people on crypto Twitter were coming out and
saying,

712
00:47:40,386 --> 00:47:42,386
this is the official Trump meme coin.

713
00:47:42,386 --> 00:47:47,386
Donald Trump Jr. is going to make a tweet any second now saying RTR is the official
Trump meme coin.

714
00:47:47,386 --> 00:47:50,386
And everyone was bought in.

715
00:47:50,386 --> 00:47:52,386
I got caught up in the hype myself and got burnt by this.

716
00:47:52,386 --> 00:47:56,386
So I heard about this early. I was in a group chat. I thought I was early.

717
00:47:56,386 --> 00:47:59,386
I heard about RTR at about five cents.

718
00:47:59,386 --> 00:48:03,386
And at five cents, I see like credible people saying this is the official Trump
coin.

719
00:48:03,386 --> 00:48:08,386
So I bought in. And for like two hours, I got the whole Solana thesis.

720
00:48:08,386 --> 00:48:11,386
I was euphoric. This thing went from five cents to 15 cents.

721
00:48:11,386 --> 00:48:15,386
I was counting all my chips before they were cashed in.

722
00:48:15,386 --> 00:48:17,386
Everything's going great.

723
00:48:17,386 --> 00:48:23,386
And then suddenly it turns out that this is not an official Trump coin.

724
00:48:23,386 --> 00:48:27,386
So Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out saying this is not the official project.

725
00:48:27,386 --> 00:48:30,386
We love what you guys are doing, but this ain't it.

726
00:48:30,386 --> 00:48:34,386
It turns out that there's like pretty good evidence that the Trumps were actually
involved

727
00:48:34,386 --> 00:48:39,386
in like talking to the ConPyPandas founder from the Solana ecosystem

728
00:48:39,386 --> 00:48:45,386
to launch this meme coin and rugged the people building this, the ConPyPanda guy.

729
00:48:45,386 --> 00:48:49,386
And Donald Trump Jr. then came. He did like this. I'm not going to play it here.

730
00:48:49,386 --> 00:48:53,386
But he did this live podcast where he talks about how RTR isn't the real token.

731
00:48:53,386 --> 00:48:56,386
And they have a real, real project.

732
00:48:56,386 --> 00:49:00,386
But like right before Trump Jr. announced that RTR was a fake coin,

733
00:49:00,386 --> 00:49:02,386
there was like a lot of insider dumping.

734
00:49:02,386 --> 00:49:06,386
And so there's a lot of speculation that the Trumps are dumping on crypto people

735
00:49:06,386 --> 00:49:09,386
launching now the second scam Trump coin.

736
00:49:09,386 --> 00:49:12,386
I got burned by this. It's a little unfortunate.

737
00:49:12,386 --> 00:49:16,386
I think all of the crypto people for Trump are going crypto for Kamala now

738
00:49:16,386 --> 00:49:20,386
after we've been burned by Donald too many times. So we'll see what happens.

739
00:49:20,386 --> 00:49:26,386
I think what happened, to add more color, is this was supposedly the real one.

740
00:49:26,386 --> 00:49:30,386
But I think Icebags told all his friends about it.

741
00:49:30,386 --> 00:49:33,386
And then his friends told other friends about it.

742
00:49:33,386 --> 00:49:35,386
And there was like this cabal that formed.

743
00:49:35,386 --> 00:49:39,386
And they were all like, OK, let's buy this up, buy this up, buy this up.

744
00:49:39,386 --> 00:49:41,386
And then they started shilling it on Twitter.

745
00:49:41,386 --> 00:49:45,386
And then the Trump people were like, wait, this is not good.

746
00:49:45,386 --> 00:49:48,386
This is not fair. This is insider trading.

747
00:49:48,386 --> 00:49:50,386
Yeah, they were supposed to do that.

748
00:49:50,386 --> 00:49:52,386
They were supposed to do the insider trading.

749
00:49:52,386 --> 00:49:55,386
Allegedly, they were locked up for six months.

750
00:49:55,386 --> 00:49:58,386
They were doing this right. There was proper vesting.

751
00:49:58,386 --> 00:50:00,386
This thing went from 0 to 100.

752
00:50:00,386 --> 00:50:04,386
Because you just sign a forward contract or a futures contract.

753
00:50:04,386 --> 00:50:06,745
You just say, listen, I will get this in six months.

754
00:50:06,745 --> 00:50:07,745
There's really no such thing, I suppose.

755
00:50:07,745 --> 00:50:08,745
I mean, maybe a little bit.

756
00:50:08,745 --> 00:50:20,745
But I do think that you invite this situation in when you say that you will buy
something that is just because it's endorsed by a celebrity.

757
00:50:20,745 --> 00:50:25,745
If the celebrity has the full power to either make or break, they say, well, that's
not the real one.

758
00:50:25,745 --> 00:50:27,745
So they could do this 100 times in a row.

759
00:50:27,745 --> 00:50:28,745
You know what I mean?

760
00:50:28,745 --> 00:50:30,745
They could say, I'm doing something big.

761
00:50:30,745 --> 00:50:34,745
Only they know that number 97 is the real one or that number five is the real one.

762
00:50:34,745 --> 00:50:35,745
So they can do it.

763
00:50:35,745 --> 00:50:37,745
They don't have to do it across time.

764
00:50:37,745 --> 00:50:38,745
You know what I mean?

765
00:50:38,745 --> 00:50:39,745
They just launch.

766
00:50:39,745 --> 00:50:41,745
They say they create 100 rumors.

767
00:50:41,745 --> 00:50:42,745
They say, I will launch.

768
00:50:42,745 --> 00:50:44,745
I will launch Paul coin.

769
00:50:44,745 --> 00:50:47,745
I'm sure no one has done that.

770
00:50:47,745 --> 00:50:49,745
Launch Paul coin.

771
00:50:49,745 --> 00:50:51,745
But there's like 12 different Paul coins.

772
00:50:51,745 --> 00:50:52,745
And then I say, this is.

773
00:50:52,745 --> 00:50:53,745
But I don't.

774
00:50:54,745 --> 00:50:56,745
You pump and dump first and then you tell people which one it is.

775
00:50:56,745 --> 00:51:03,745
So you're inviting this situation where it's something that the person can make or
break the coin.

776
00:51:03,745 --> 00:51:07,745
They're the only one who can make money in this.

777
00:51:07,745 --> 00:51:09,745
No one is to blame but you, Justin.

778
00:51:09,745 --> 00:51:10,745
That's the bottom line here.

779
00:51:10,745 --> 00:51:19,745
Well, listen, Jordy, in the pre-show you shared this bold Leonidas image of the two
Trumps cackling together.

780
00:51:20,745 --> 00:51:26,745
So then I bought a bunch of the supply and bailed five minutes before the launch.

781
00:51:26,745 --> 00:51:28,745
I did the same thing with Shkreli.

782
00:51:28,745 --> 00:51:31,745
Listen, I'm not to blame for this.

783
00:51:31,745 --> 00:51:32,745
I'm the victim, okay?

784
00:51:32,745 --> 00:51:34,745
It definitely happened twice.

785
00:51:34,745 --> 00:51:45,745
And, you know, there was a lot of anger against, you know, the CompiPanda's guy and
even, you know, SizeChad and anybody else who tweeted against this.

786
00:51:45,745 --> 00:51:54,745
And it kind of is a bad look because even if it was the real one, they're still, you
know, caballing to kind of like push it.

787
00:51:54,745 --> 00:51:57,745
So either way, it's just like there's not a good look.

788
00:51:57,745 --> 00:52:01,745
Although, you know, I have to say it's all gray areas.

789
00:52:01,745 --> 00:52:02,745
It's in a black and white.

790
00:52:02,745 --> 00:52:11,745
You know, what's the difference between them caballing a coin and, you know, Pepe
getting caballed and then, you know, everyone is happy because it does go up a lot.

791
00:52:12,745 --> 00:52:18,745
I think in this case, people are angry that there were wallets that sniped and then
dumped and made like millions of dollars.

792
00:52:18,745 --> 00:52:20,745
And it's unclear who those are.

793
00:52:20,745 --> 00:52:23,745
And somebody out there has done well.

794
00:52:23,745 --> 00:52:26,745
And that's, I think, what makes people angry.

795
00:52:26,745 --> 00:52:30,745
And we'll see how that plays out.

796
00:52:30,745 --> 00:52:31,745
But given what happened.

797
00:52:31,745 --> 00:52:37,745
But if you're not willing to be angry, then why are you happy when you make money on
meme coins?

798
00:52:37,745 --> 00:52:38,745
Because it's the same thing.

799
00:52:38,745 --> 00:52:39,745
I will never be happy.

800
00:52:39,745 --> 00:52:40,745
Don't worry about that.

801
00:52:41,745 --> 00:52:43,745
Yeah, we hold ETH, so we're never happy.

802
00:52:48,745 --> 00:52:51,745
Wait until Bitcoin releases its 84th address format.

803
00:52:52,745 --> 00:52:55,745
With no actual, no real innovation.

804
00:52:57,745 --> 00:52:59,745
Then ETH will look really good.

805
00:52:59,745 --> 00:53:00,745
Yeah.

806
00:53:00,745 --> 00:53:09,745
So I have like one more meme coin to talk about, which is unfortunately the Doge OG
passed away.

807
00:53:09,745 --> 00:53:10,745
Kabosu.

808
00:53:10,745 --> 00:53:11,745
Yeah.

809
00:53:11,745 --> 00:53:12,745
Kabosu is dead.

810
00:53:12,745 --> 00:53:14,745
The family got a new coin.

811
00:53:14,745 --> 00:53:19,745
And apparently, this is like how the human ingenuity is being used these days, Paul.

812
00:53:19,745 --> 00:53:22,745
This is where all the great minds of our time are being used.

813
00:53:22,745 --> 00:53:27,745
They made scripts to try to make a meme coin as soon as the name was announced.

814
00:53:27,745 --> 00:53:31,745
So they're waiting for the family to announce the name of the new Shiba Inu dog.

815
00:53:33,745 --> 00:53:35,745
This is like the FOMC.

816
00:53:35,745 --> 00:53:36,745
You're aware of this with the Fed.

817
00:53:37,745 --> 00:53:42,745
People do this where the Fed puts out whether the rate cut and people have like
advanced computer science.

818
00:53:42,745 --> 00:53:43,745
Jordi does this.

819
00:53:43,745 --> 00:53:45,745
That's my life.

820
00:53:45,745 --> 00:53:46,745
Yeah.

821
00:53:46,745 --> 00:53:48,745
I did the whole PDF.

822
00:53:48,745 --> 00:53:50,745
So this is you probably doing this script.

823
00:53:50,745 --> 00:53:51,745
This is me.

824
00:53:51,745 --> 00:53:52,745
It's Jordi.

825
00:53:53,745 --> 00:53:56,745
Jordi is dumping on you guys five minutes before the next episode.

826
00:54:03,745 --> 00:54:04,745
Oh my gosh.

827
00:54:04,745 --> 00:54:05,745
Those effects.

828
00:54:06,745 --> 00:54:07,745
Wow.

829
00:54:07,745 --> 00:54:08,745
Yeah.

830
00:54:10,745 --> 00:54:12,745
The dog was right over your head, Paul.

831
00:54:12,745 --> 00:54:13,745
I digress.

832
00:54:13,745 --> 00:54:19,745
So bottom line, a ton of scripts got the name Nero.

833
00:54:19,745 --> 00:54:20,745
N-E-R-O.

834
00:54:20,745 --> 00:54:22,745
They made shit coins.

835
00:54:22,745 --> 00:54:26,745
And obviously Solana right now, you know, you have like Pumped Up Funds.

836
00:54:26,745 --> 00:54:28,745
All this is so easy.

837
00:54:28,745 --> 00:54:33,745
So two Solana meme coins started around the same time.

838
00:54:33,745 --> 00:54:40,745
The first one apparently, you know, was going up and went up to like nine figures.

839
00:54:40,745 --> 00:54:50,745
And apparently Ansem, who is, you know, the Michael Saylor of Solana, let's call
him, because his opinion kind of moves the mountains there.

840
00:54:50,745 --> 00:54:55,745
He got on Twitter spaces and said, guys, no, it's not that one.

841
00:54:55,745 --> 00:54:56,745
I like the other one.

842
00:54:56,745 --> 00:54:59,745
Even though everything's the same, it's the same name.

843
00:55:00,745 --> 00:55:03,745
Maybe you can bring up the deck screen here, Justin.

844
00:55:03,745 --> 00:55:04,745
We can look.

845
00:55:04,745 --> 00:55:08,745
So I think this one was the – which one's which?

846
00:55:10,745 --> 00:55:15,745
This looks like the one that – well, it's a nine million.

847
00:55:15,745 --> 00:55:20,745
They do like when people are walking down the street and they're like Americans and
like, where is Iraq?

848
00:55:20,745 --> 00:55:24,745
And then they have a different map where Iraq is like over Australia.

849
00:55:24,745 --> 00:55:26,745
And people are like, oh, and they put like a pin in.

850
00:55:26,745 --> 00:55:27,745
Yeah, for these charts.

851
00:55:27,745 --> 00:55:29,745
Like which one is the real one?

852
00:55:29,745 --> 00:55:31,745
Oh, and everyone's just like, what?

853
00:55:31,745 --> 00:55:36,745
You know, the funny thing is like they've both ended up being around 10 million FTV
now.

854
00:55:36,745 --> 00:55:37,745
So here's another one.

855
00:55:37,745 --> 00:55:38,745
It doesn't make any difference.

856
00:55:38,745 --> 00:55:40,745
All's well that ends well, you know?

857
00:55:40,745 --> 00:55:43,745
Yeah, there seems to be another one about the same price.

858
00:55:43,745 --> 00:55:48,745
Maybe all the people launching these projects and promoting them also lost track.

859
00:55:48,745 --> 00:55:51,745
So it's just like a random crapshoot now.

860
00:55:52,745 --> 00:55:53,745
They have to be the same.

861
00:55:53,745 --> 00:55:57,745
They have to be the same in every way, the same price, because they're just the
same.

862
00:55:57,745 --> 00:56:03,745
They're fungible dog meme coin.

863
00:56:03,745 --> 00:56:05,745
Not exactly, not exactly.

864
00:56:05,745 --> 00:56:08,745
Because even like the ticker, you know, there's –

865
00:56:08,745 --> 00:56:11,745
Is there a – do you know which ticker is which?

866
00:56:11,745 --> 00:56:13,745
Well, that's my point.

867
00:56:13,745 --> 00:56:14,745
That's my point.

868
00:56:14,745 --> 00:56:15,745
That's my point.

869
00:56:15,745 --> 00:56:17,745
No, there's a ticker called Bitcoin, right?

870
00:56:17,745 --> 00:56:19,745
There's a Bitcoin.

871
00:56:19,745 --> 00:56:21,745
Yeah, but people know how to tell that one.

872
00:56:21,745 --> 00:56:23,745
They know how to tell that one from the real Bitcoin.

873
00:56:23,745 --> 00:56:24,745
Because?

874
00:56:24,745 --> 00:56:27,745
They could run a Bitcoin full node.

875
00:56:27,745 --> 00:56:29,745
I mean, I don't know.

876
00:56:29,745 --> 00:56:31,745
Swimmers are not doing that.

877
00:56:31,745 --> 00:56:34,745
Other than that, they could like – just people like Coinbase or whatever.

878
00:56:34,745 --> 00:56:37,745
People at Coinbase will get fired if they give people the wrong Bitcoin, you know?

879
00:56:37,745 --> 00:56:42,745
But no one's going to get fired if they give them coin because no one knows the
difference.

880
00:56:42,745 --> 00:56:43,745
No one will even know.

881
00:56:43,745 --> 00:56:44,745
It's a victimless crime.

882
00:56:44,745 --> 00:56:47,745
Wasn't there like the real Nero on ETH or something?

883
00:56:47,745 --> 00:56:48,745
Yeah, so this is –

884
00:56:48,745 --> 00:56:49,745
Nero on ETH, yeah.

885
00:56:49,745 --> 00:56:53,745
So Nero on ETH has ended up beating both of them.

886
00:56:53,745 --> 00:57:00,745
And maybe let's bring up that chart because that one has actually gone up to 200 –
220 million.

887
00:57:00,745 --> 00:57:01,745
Here we go.

888
00:57:01,745 --> 00:57:03,745
So this one is winning apparently.

889
00:57:03,745 --> 00:57:06,745
Look at how green that chart is.

890
00:57:06,745 --> 00:57:07,745
Green, that means good.

891
00:57:07,745 --> 00:57:08,745
That's good, yeah.

892
00:57:08,745 --> 00:57:09,745
We don't want red.

893
00:57:09,745 --> 00:57:11,745
You approve of this, Paul?

894
00:57:11,745 --> 00:57:12,745
I like green.

895
00:57:12,745 --> 00:57:14,745
You like green?

896
00:57:15,745 --> 00:57:16,745
So –

897
00:57:16,745 --> 00:57:18,745
I don't know if the name is Nero on ETH.

898
00:57:18,745 --> 00:57:20,745
It's like the only way to distinguish.

899
00:57:20,745 --> 00:57:22,745
There's a number of decimal places.

900
00:57:22,745 --> 00:57:27,745
So I did inquire and I was a bit perplexed because Solana is getting most of the
meme coin hype.

901
00:57:27,745 --> 00:57:29,745
And I asked around.

902
00:57:29,745 --> 00:57:33,745
I said, why is Nero on ETH the one that's actually at 200 million?

903
00:57:33,745 --> 00:57:35,745
Everything is like dust.

904
00:57:36,745 --> 00:57:46,745
And apparently it's because Shiba Inu is Ethereum based and the culture for Shiba is
more like Ethereum aligned.

905
00:57:46,745 --> 00:57:50,745
So screw these Solana guys trying to like steal our meme.

906
00:57:50,745 --> 00:57:54,745
The Ethereum version is going to be the one that has to win.

907
00:57:54,745 --> 00:57:57,745
And I guess that's working for now.

908
00:57:57,745 --> 00:57:59,745
I love that.

909
00:57:59,745 --> 00:58:02,745
Trying to make someone jealous.

910
00:58:02,745 --> 00:58:05,745
You flirt with the other girl or whatever.

911
00:58:05,745 --> 00:58:07,745
Someone said this was a top signal in the comment.

912
00:58:07,745 --> 00:58:08,745
It's so true.

913
00:58:08,745 --> 00:58:10,745
I went to Solana and I missed Nero coin.

914
00:58:10,745 --> 00:58:16,745
I bought this fake Trump Ponzi scam coin and I missed the canonical Nero coin on
Ethereum.

915
00:58:16,745 --> 00:58:18,745
That's terrible.

916
00:58:18,745 --> 00:58:19,745
Yeah.

917
00:58:19,745 --> 00:58:20,745
They're distracting you, right?

918
00:58:20,745 --> 00:58:22,745
They're distracting you from the real prize.

919
00:58:22,745 --> 00:58:23,745
Yeah.

920
00:58:23,745 --> 00:58:26,745
So much attention in a given day.

921
00:58:26,745 --> 00:58:28,745
Scarce resource.

922
00:58:28,745 --> 00:58:34,745
So Paul, this is what you have to look forward to if L2s and sidechains come to
Bitcoin land.

923
00:58:34,745 --> 00:58:36,745
You'll get a sailor coin.

924
00:58:36,745 --> 00:58:39,745
You'll get Sailor Moon for sure.

925
00:58:39,745 --> 00:58:42,745
That will 100% be like the main thing.

926
00:58:42,745 --> 00:58:44,745
There'll be like a chair coin or something.

927
00:58:44,745 --> 00:58:46,745
Chair coin.

928
00:58:46,745 --> 00:58:47,745
I love chair.

929
00:58:47,745 --> 00:58:49,745
One single chair.

930
00:58:49,745 --> 00:58:51,745
Limited supply.

931
00:58:51,745 --> 00:58:53,745
You just won.

932
00:58:53,745 --> 00:58:55,745
Very illiquid.

933
00:58:56,745 --> 00:59:00,745
Liquidity is very low because there's only one.

934
00:59:00,745 --> 00:59:03,745
Let's maybe get some last questions.

935
00:59:03,745 --> 00:59:04,745
Okay.

936
00:59:04,745 --> 00:59:05,745
Yeah.

937
00:59:05,745 --> 00:59:06,745
Yeah.

938
00:59:06,745 --> 00:59:07,745
Let's go.

939
00:59:07,745 --> 00:59:11,745
We'll get some last questions for you, Paul, before we go to cost of the week.

940
00:59:11,745 --> 00:59:12,745
I'll start with one.

941
00:59:12,745 --> 00:59:15,745
One of the reasons we wanted to have you on was prediction markets.

942
00:59:15,745 --> 00:59:17,745
And we talked last episode about-

943
00:59:17,745 --> 00:59:18,745
Yes.

944
00:59:18,745 --> 00:59:21,745
Most neglected technology of our time.

945
00:59:22,745 --> 00:59:26,745
It will make the printing press look like Cartoon Network.

946
00:59:26,745 --> 00:59:34,745
When our descendants among the galaxies look back on this era, it will just be like,
when was writing invented?

947
00:59:34,745 --> 00:59:35,745
When was fire invented?

948
00:59:35,745 --> 00:59:37,745
When was the printing press invented?

949
00:59:37,745 --> 00:59:39,745
When was the computer invented?

950
00:59:39,745 --> 00:59:42,745
When were prediction markets invented is my opinion.

951
00:59:42,745 --> 00:59:43,745
This is my opinion.

952
00:59:43,745 --> 00:59:46,745
You're the most bullish-

953
00:59:46,745 --> 00:59:50,745
Play this clip and put a little slide rule next to my face.

954
00:59:50,745 --> 00:59:56,745
There is no one as bullish as Paul in the entire universe on prediction markets.

955
00:59:56,745 --> 00:59:59,745
The printing press has nothing on prediction markets.

956
00:59:59,745 --> 01:00:03,745
Let's maybe understand why.

957
01:00:03,745 --> 01:00:15,745
So is your thesis that aligning incentives brings in the collective knowledge of
society and that collective knowledge makes us make better decisions?

958
01:00:15,745 --> 01:00:16,745
Yes.

959
01:00:16,745 --> 01:00:17,745
We definitely need to combine our knowledge.

960
01:00:17,745 --> 01:00:19,745
But the issue is how.

961
01:00:19,745 --> 01:00:20,745
I mean, it's easier said than done.

962
01:00:20,745 --> 01:00:23,745
Oh, we'll get everyone in a big room and then we'll all talk to each other.

963
01:00:23,745 --> 01:00:24,745
Wait a minute.

964
01:00:24,745 --> 01:00:25,745
That doesn't work at all.

965
01:00:25,745 --> 01:00:26,745
Because it's N squared.

966
01:00:26,745 --> 01:00:28,745
Only so many people can talk at once.

967
01:00:28,745 --> 01:00:34,745
And in fact, people self-censor what they say based on what they think is
acceptable.

968
01:00:34,745 --> 01:00:38,745
So even once a committee reaches like 12 people, it becomes useless.

969
01:00:38,745 --> 01:00:41,745
Even if Elon Musk is on the committee.

970
01:00:41,745 --> 01:00:46,745
The only way it works is if one person just says, the other 11 people just shut the
fuck up and go home.

971
01:00:46,745 --> 01:00:47,745
I will do this project.

972
01:00:47,745 --> 01:00:50,745
That's the only way the committee will work if you decommittee it.

973
01:00:50,745 --> 01:00:52,745
No art was ever made.

974
01:00:52,745 --> 01:00:55,745
Nothing good ever came out of a committee ever.

975
01:00:55,745 --> 01:01:01,745
But having one guy YOLO it, that's also terrible.

976
01:01:01,745 --> 01:01:04,745
The ideal thing would be if you can combine all of society's knowledge.

977
01:01:04,745 --> 01:01:08,745
So you see aligned incentives, but that's the trick.

978
01:01:08,745 --> 01:01:13,745
It's like saying, oh, the trick to getting to outer space is to just fly a rocket up
there.

979
01:01:13,745 --> 01:01:18,745
But it's like, okay, there's like a million things in your way.

980
01:01:18,745 --> 01:01:20,745
A million little decisions you have to make.

981
01:01:20,745 --> 01:01:22,745
So this is the trick.

982
01:01:22,745 --> 01:01:23,745
The prediction market does this.

983
01:01:23,745 --> 01:01:31,745
And one of the reasons why it's so great is that people don't understand the extent
to which all of us are self-deluded.

984
01:01:31,745 --> 01:01:35,745
And to which we have been corrupted by these parasites.

985
01:01:35,745 --> 01:01:37,745
They don't know that they're parasites.

986
01:01:37,745 --> 01:01:39,745
I don't mean anything bad.

987
01:01:40,745 --> 01:01:42,745
The reason why Bill O'Reilly had a show.

988
01:01:42,745 --> 01:01:46,745
I'm trying to guess how old all of you are and where you're from or pick a good
metaphor.

989
01:01:46,745 --> 01:01:49,745
But Bill O'Reilly was not the most insightful person.

990
01:01:49,745 --> 01:01:57,745
But he had this kind of people, the audience trusted him because he had a certain
personality and a background.

991
01:01:57,745 --> 01:02:00,745
And so that was actually good.

992
01:02:00,745 --> 01:02:05,745
Because having some champions of the media, Walter Cronkite, whatever.

993
01:02:06,745 --> 01:02:12,745
This had like a log N scaling, basically, where the society has America has 300
million people.

994
01:02:12,745 --> 01:02:14,745
You have log of that.

995
01:02:14,745 --> 01:02:15,745
Very small.

996
01:02:15,745 --> 01:02:16,745
A few trusted people.

997
01:02:16,745 --> 01:02:21,745
And then people would just say, I'm not going to watch that show anymore if I catch
that person in a lie.

998
01:02:21,745 --> 01:02:22,745
Now that was okay.

999
01:02:22,745 --> 01:02:25,745
But this is still not good enough.

1000
01:02:25,745 --> 01:02:31,745
Because as we know, with every host, including Bill O'Reilly, they have their own
human bias.

1001
01:02:31,745 --> 01:02:34,745
They have their own frailties.

1002
01:02:34,745 --> 01:02:36,745
And they're captured by the audience also.

1003
01:02:36,745 --> 01:02:39,745
We need something where everyone is rooting out error constantly.

1004
01:02:39,745 --> 01:02:41,745
And that is what the prediction market does.

1005
01:02:41,745 --> 01:02:49,745
Because if there's any error defined as a difference between the current market
price and the objective likelihood, the objective reality.

1006
01:02:49,745 --> 01:02:56,745
Someone has an incentive to buy the cheaper, sell the more expensive and bring them
back into alignment.

1007
01:02:56,745 --> 01:03:01,745
And it's a tireless thing where every bias will be rooted out eventually.

1008
01:03:02,745 --> 01:03:10,745
Do you expect that society will make important decisions based on the prediction
markets, though?

1009
01:03:10,745 --> 01:03:11,745
Yes.

1010
01:03:11,745 --> 01:03:16,745
It will be like the printing press, where at first everyone will just be like, what
the hell is this going on?

1011
01:03:16,745 --> 01:03:19,745
And they'll just have no idea what it's doing.

1012
01:03:19,745 --> 01:03:26,745
And like the printing press, at first people just used it in the old context.

1013
01:03:26,745 --> 01:03:33,745
So as you probably know, all the only people who could read or write were members of
the clergy or other various monks of various kinds.

1014
01:03:33,745 --> 01:03:35,745
Extreme cultural.

1015
01:03:35,745 --> 01:03:38,745
So like these are people copying the Bible by hand.

1016
01:03:38,745 --> 01:03:44,745
And so, of course, when the printing press came out, it was, I don't want to say it
was pitched to the world.

1017
01:03:44,745 --> 01:03:49,745
But I'm just trying to translate it to like a more modern phraseology, if you will.

1018
01:03:50,745 --> 01:03:56,745
Where it's like, OK, this is now an easier way to make Bibles and we can give more
Bibles to people.

1019
01:03:56,745 --> 01:04:10,745
Of course, in a way, this was the last thing that many people wanted, because the
way of doing the like way of controlling society included that the priests were the
only ones who could interpret the religious scripture and stuff.

1020
01:04:11,745 --> 01:04:19,745
As soon as the Lutherans, as soon as some people prioritized everyone being able to
read and everyone being able to read the Bible in particular.

1021
01:04:19,745 --> 01:04:25,745
As soon as they prioritize that, it led to like a complete revolt against the
aristocrats and the king.

1022
01:04:25,745 --> 01:04:30,745
And those countries became more of what we might call like a liberal democracy.

1023
01:04:30,745 --> 01:04:34,745
So this is an enormous upheaval, just copying the Bible.

1024
01:04:34,745 --> 01:04:39,745
Little did people know that what was coming down was the ability to publish
pamphlets.

1025
01:04:40,745 --> 01:04:44,745
Yeah, I mean, just in the interest of time, like where are we now?

1026
01:04:44,745 --> 01:04:48,745
Like is Polymarket, do you like that specific product?

1027
01:04:48,745 --> 01:04:50,745
We're like 0.0000% of the way in.

1028
01:04:50,745 --> 01:04:56,745
We are not even, we don't even have the first real prediction market that would meet
like my standards.

1029
01:04:56,745 --> 01:05:00,745
Although we have had, I would say really Intrade started it.

1030
01:05:00,745 --> 01:05:11,745
The idea of the custodial foreign U.S. dollar prediction market, Intrade was this
company in Ireland because of weird U.S. gambling laws.

1031
01:05:11,745 --> 01:05:17,745
And they started this up and it has slowly accumulated steam.

1032
01:05:17,745 --> 01:05:21,745
They're having, maybe I would say they have a market scoring real blockchain.

1033
01:05:21,745 --> 01:05:24,745
Ethereum would be like level two.

1034
01:05:24,745 --> 01:05:27,745
So, but we have to get to like level 50 basically.

1035
01:05:27,745 --> 01:05:31,745
So we're very far from what I think we are.

1036
01:05:31,745 --> 01:05:37,745
And in particular, what will happen eventually is the public will realize that this
is the most reliable way of doing things.

1037
01:05:37,745 --> 01:05:44,745
It'd be kind of like gap accounting, where if you're the first person to do gap
accounting, it makes it seem like you're a weirdo.

1038
01:05:44,745 --> 01:05:45,745
You say, oh, this is this way.

1039
01:05:45,745 --> 01:05:46,745
I don't trust my auditors.

1040
01:05:46,745 --> 01:05:47,745
I don't trust my company.

1041
01:05:47,745 --> 01:05:49,745
I don't trust anyone, any of my employees.

1042
01:05:49,745 --> 01:05:51,745
I don't trust, the investors don't trust.

1043
01:05:51,745 --> 01:05:53,745
So you'd say, why are they doing that?

1044
01:05:53,745 --> 01:05:57,745
But after everyone starts to do it, then now you look weird if you're not doing it.

1045
01:05:57,745 --> 01:05:59,745
So we will then reach a flow.

1046
01:05:59,745 --> 01:06:04,745
It's good to get that understanding.

1047
01:06:04,745 --> 01:06:08,745
And also the fact that we're not anywhere near like, you know, we're at 1.0.

1048
01:06:08,745 --> 01:06:10,745
I have a site, bitcoinhivemind.com.

1049
01:06:10,745 --> 01:06:13,745
You can read all about my prediction market thoughts if you care about that.

1050
01:06:13,745 --> 01:06:15,745
Bitcoinhivemind.com.

1051
01:06:15,745 --> 01:06:17,745
Please check it out, guys.

1052
01:06:17,745 --> 01:06:19,745
We'll head out to pasta of the week.

1053
01:06:19,745 --> 01:06:21,745
I know we're running short on time.

1054
01:06:22,745 --> 01:06:27,745
I thought we had the better graphic with like the full, like all the pepes and
stuff.

1055
01:06:27,745 --> 01:06:28,745
There we go.

1056
01:06:28,745 --> 01:06:30,745
This is the one that we need.

1057
01:06:30,745 --> 01:06:31,745
Wow.

1058
01:06:31,745 --> 01:06:32,745
Thank you.

1059
01:06:32,745 --> 01:06:33,745
I love it.

1060
01:06:33,745 --> 01:06:34,745
It's great.

1061
01:06:34,745 --> 01:06:35,745
All right.

1062
01:06:35,745 --> 01:06:38,745
So Taiki, let's kick off with pasta.

1063
01:06:38,745 --> 01:06:39,745
Yeah.

1064
01:06:39,745 --> 01:06:45,745
So, you know, as a sizable eat holder, this pasta really resonated with me.

1065
01:06:45,745 --> 01:06:47,745
Justin, if you can pull it up.

1066
01:06:47,745 --> 01:06:48,745
Wait, wait.

1067
01:06:48,745 --> 01:06:49,745
No, and it's not this one.

1068
01:06:49,745 --> 01:06:50,745
It's not this one.

1069
01:06:50,745 --> 01:06:51,745
This is funny, though.

1070
01:06:51,745 --> 01:06:52,745
I like this one.

1071
01:06:52,745 --> 01:06:53,745
I mean, it's true, right?

1072
01:06:53,745 --> 01:06:54,745
This is bullish our bags.

1073
01:06:54,745 --> 01:06:55,745
Hashtag copium.

1074
01:06:55,745 --> 01:06:56,745
Wait, you don't hear.

1075
01:06:56,745 --> 01:06:57,745
Let me, let me share mine.

1076
01:06:57,745 --> 01:06:58,745
I got it.

1077
01:06:58,745 --> 01:06:59,745
I got it.

1078
01:06:59,745 --> 01:07:00,745
I got it.

1079
01:07:00,745 --> 01:07:01,745
There you go.

1080
01:07:01,745 --> 01:07:02,745
There you go.

1081
01:07:02,745 --> 01:07:03,745
Yeah.

1082
01:07:03,745 --> 01:07:04,745
You know, bad news.

1083
01:07:04,745 --> 01:07:05,745
ETH down.

1084
01:07:05,745 --> 01:07:06,745
Good news.

1085
01:07:06,745 --> 01:07:07,745
ETH down.

1086
01:07:07,745 --> 01:07:08,745
No news.

1087
01:07:08,745 --> 01:07:09,745
ETH down.

1088
01:07:09,745 --> 01:07:10,745
FUD.

1089
01:07:10,745 --> 01:07:11,745
ETH down.

1090
01:07:11,745 --> 01:07:12,745
No FUD.

1091
01:07:12,745 --> 01:07:13,745
ETH down.

1092
01:07:13,745 --> 01:07:14,745
Market's good.

1093
01:07:14,745 --> 01:07:15,745
ETH down.

1094
01:07:15,745 --> 01:07:16,745
Not good.

1095
01:07:16,745 --> 01:07:17,745
ETH down.

1096
01:07:17,745 --> 01:07:18,745
ETH goes down a lot.

1097
01:07:18,745 --> 01:07:23,745
This is, has been the story of innate holders, a journey for like the past five
months.

1098
01:07:23,745 --> 01:07:28,985
We just, we keep, they keep, you know, getting us, you know, there's so much hopium
on the

1099
01:07:28,985 --> 01:07:29,985
timeline.

1100
01:07:29,985 --> 01:07:30,985
It's like, oh, it's the ETF.

1101
01:07:30,985 --> 01:07:31,985
It has to be bullish.

1102
01:07:31,985 --> 01:07:32,985
No.

1103
01:07:32,985 --> 01:07:33,985
No.

1104
01:07:33,985 --> 01:07:37,785
Like, I feel like everyone kind of expected the ETF to give us like the final exit
pump.

1105
01:07:37,785 --> 01:07:41,745
And now everyone's trapped because we're all underwater on our lungs.

1106
01:07:41,745 --> 01:07:42,745
Sad.

1107
01:07:42,745 --> 01:07:43,745
Yeah.

1108
01:07:43,745 --> 01:07:46,745
It's too real to be funny, though.

1109
01:07:46,745 --> 01:07:47,745
Yeah, it's too real.

1110
01:07:47,745 --> 01:07:48,745
I'm sorry.

1111
01:07:48,745 --> 01:07:53,745
Shad is going to be more, more sad about this.

1112
01:07:53,745 --> 01:07:56,745
Justin, any good one?

1113
01:07:56,745 --> 01:08:01,745
I, it's, it's also sad, but it's, it's close to home.

1114
01:08:01,745 --> 01:08:03,745
So I'll give some, some background on this one.

1115
01:08:03,745 --> 01:08:07,745
So working on a project, we build on-chain applications, right?

1116
01:08:07,745 --> 01:08:09,745
And there's always this question of where you're going to launch it.

1117
01:08:09,745 --> 01:08:13,745
And you sort of have to play this like mental game of like trying to figure out
which is

1118
01:08:13,745 --> 01:08:15,745
going to be the hype chain of the next few months.

1119
01:08:15,745 --> 01:08:16,745
Is Solana going to be there?

1120
01:08:16,745 --> 01:08:17,745
Is it going to be BASE?

1121
01:08:17,745 --> 01:08:18,745
Is it going to be Optimism?

1122
01:08:18,745 --> 01:08:23,745
Maybe if a Bitcoin Layer 2 ever gets off the ground, like maybe a Bitcoin Layer 2
could

1123
01:08:23,745 --> 01:08:24,745
do that.

1124
01:08:24,745 --> 01:08:28,745
But like three or four months ago, before the summer started, we're having a little

1125
01:08:28,745 --> 01:08:30,745
powwow with our whole team.

1126
01:08:30,745 --> 01:08:31,745
Like, where should we go?

1127
01:08:31,745 --> 01:08:35,745
And I raised my hand and I say, guys, didn't you hear?

1128
01:08:35,745 --> 01:08:37,745
BASE is doing another on-chain summer.

1129
01:08:37,745 --> 01:08:38,745
We've got to be on BASE.

1130
01:08:38,745 --> 01:08:40,745
Like this summer is going to be lit.

1131
01:08:40,745 --> 01:08:41,745
And...

1132
01:08:41,745 --> 01:08:43,745
People still say lit?

1133
01:08:43,745 --> 01:08:45,745
I thought they changed it to something.

1134
01:08:45,745 --> 01:08:46,745
Well, I'm over 30 now, Paul.

1135
01:08:46,745 --> 01:08:50,745
So I'm pretty outdated when it comes to the right terminology and stuff.

1136
01:08:50,745 --> 01:08:51,745
I'm a boomer.

1137
01:08:51,745 --> 01:08:55,745
You need to consult a younger cousin or a niece or something.

1138
01:08:55,745 --> 01:08:56,745
Exactly.

1139
01:08:56,745 --> 01:08:57,745
Yeah.

1140
01:08:57,745 --> 01:08:58,745
You have a new password.

1141
01:08:58,745 --> 01:09:01,745
But I think Gwart put this meme out.

1142
01:09:01,745 --> 01:09:04,745
How about you come down here and tell us about your little on-chain summer?

1143
01:09:04,745 --> 01:09:07,745
And this is sort of what I felt like over the past few months.

1144
01:09:07,745 --> 01:09:09,745
Like on-chain summer, what even is that?

1145
01:09:09,745 --> 01:09:13,745
I know BASE is activating like a coffee shop where you pay with USDC everywhere.

1146
01:09:13,745 --> 01:09:15,745
In a few places.

1147
01:09:15,745 --> 01:09:19,745
But there's really been nothing substantial that has come out of this thing.

1148
01:09:19,745 --> 01:09:22,745
So that's my story.

1149
01:09:22,745 --> 01:09:25,745
That's also very sad.

1150
01:09:25,745 --> 01:09:27,745
I resonate with this.

1151
01:09:27,745 --> 01:09:28,745
Solid sad.

1152
01:09:28,745 --> 01:09:30,745
It's a sad, sad pasta week.

1153
01:09:30,745 --> 01:09:34,745
Paul, we decided as a guest you get two pastas.

1154
01:09:34,745 --> 01:09:36,745
So you got a bunch of good ones.

1155
01:09:36,745 --> 01:09:37,745
I didn't know.

1156
01:09:37,745 --> 01:09:38,745
They said find a funny tweet.

1157
01:09:38,745 --> 01:09:39,745
Okay.

1158
01:09:39,745 --> 01:09:40,745
Can we do the second one?

1159
01:09:40,745 --> 01:09:41,745
The space one?

1160
01:09:41,745 --> 01:09:42,745
The space one.

1161
01:09:42,745 --> 01:09:43,745
Yeah.

1162
01:09:43,745 --> 01:09:44,745
Space one first.

1163
01:09:44,745 --> 01:09:45,745
You got it.

1164
01:09:45,745 --> 01:09:47,745
This one's a little heavy, even though it's also funny.

1165
01:09:47,745 --> 01:09:49,745
So this is a hilarious tweet.

1166
01:09:49,745 --> 01:09:51,745
I mean, I know it's not crypto-related.

1167
01:09:51,745 --> 01:09:59,745
But the people, Boeing, trapped these astronauts in space for like nine months.

1168
01:09:59,745 --> 01:10:01,745
They're stuck up there.

1169
01:10:01,745 --> 01:10:04,745
And Elon can't even fly up his own thing and get them down.

1170
01:10:05,745 --> 01:10:07,745
They would have to lose this.

1171
01:10:07,745 --> 01:10:08,745
There's no software.

1172
01:10:08,745 --> 01:10:10,745
I mean, it is software-related.

1173
01:10:10,745 --> 01:10:17,745
So basically, they can't rescue the humans because they need the humans to fly this
Boeing part back to Earth.

1174
01:10:17,745 --> 01:10:20,745
The humans have to fly it back to Earth.

1175
01:10:20,745 --> 01:10:24,745
So they were supposed to be up there for, like, whatever, like a couple days or
something.

1176
01:10:24,745 --> 01:10:31,745
Now they're going to be up there until, like, February 2025 or something like that,
all because of Boeing and because of software.

1177
01:10:31,745 --> 01:10:33,745
So I thought this was pretty funny.

1178
01:10:33,745 --> 01:10:37,745
You know, that's just how it goes sometimes.

1179
01:10:37,745 --> 01:10:41,745
You're just stuck in space.

1180
01:10:41,745 --> 01:10:43,745
Because of Boeing, you're just stuck in space with someone else.

1181
01:10:43,745 --> 01:10:45,745
These are all sad postures.

1182
01:10:45,745 --> 01:10:47,745
This is like these people are trapped up there.

1183
01:10:47,745 --> 01:10:49,745
Well, I mean, the other one I had was really sad.

1184
01:10:49,745 --> 01:10:52,745
So can we do that one also?

1185
01:10:52,745 --> 01:10:53,745
All right.

1186
01:10:53,745 --> 01:10:54,745
Let's do the other one.

1187
01:10:54,745 --> 01:10:59,745
I think this is the most accurate description of communism ever established.

1188
01:10:59,745 --> 01:11:01,745
Establish a new communist utopia.

1189
01:11:01,745 --> 01:11:04,745
Rob or kill the successful.

1190
01:11:04,745 --> 01:11:07,745
And then a lot of people don't emphasize this third step.

1191
01:11:07,745 --> 01:11:12,745
Everyone always says they kill all the successful people so there won't be any great
companies.

1192
01:11:12,745 --> 01:11:18,745
But then they forget this third step, force everyone to work for free, the rest.

1193
01:11:18,745 --> 01:11:20,745
Like the poor people, they have to farm.

1194
01:11:20,745 --> 01:11:22,745
But they don't get to keep what they farm.

1195
01:11:22,745 --> 01:11:24,745
It just all goes to someone else.

1196
01:11:24,745 --> 01:11:27,745
And then maybe they give you food back.

1197
01:11:28,745 --> 01:11:30,745
He knows all about like the farmers getting farmed.

1198
01:11:30,745 --> 01:11:32,745
He knows about that.

1199
01:11:32,745 --> 01:11:33,745
Yeah.

1200
01:11:33,745 --> 01:11:41,745
And also I feel like this screenshot also encapsulates like the Nero and like the
Trump coin, like meme coin rugs.

1201
01:11:41,745 --> 01:11:43,745
It's just like, oh, that's not the real meme coin.

1202
01:11:43,745 --> 01:11:45,745
And they just keep doing this entire thing.

1203
01:11:45,745 --> 01:11:46,745
It's not real.

1204
01:11:46,745 --> 01:11:52,745
People 50-50, they usually remember that at some point you run out of food and then
starve to death.

1205
01:11:52,745 --> 01:11:56,745
And then everyone remembers the last second that stay wasn't real communism.

1206
01:11:56,745 --> 01:11:57,745
People remember that.

1207
01:11:57,745 --> 01:12:06,745
But people, I just thought this is a great description because everyone always
forgets that they force everyone to work for free.

1208
01:12:06,745 --> 01:12:08,745
Everyone always forgets that step.

1209
01:12:08,745 --> 01:12:11,745
And then they just think like, no, there's no Elon Musk so we run out of food.

1210
01:12:11,745 --> 01:12:14,745
And it's like, no, because there's no anything.

1211
01:12:14,745 --> 01:12:16,745
And then everyone dies.

1212
01:12:16,745 --> 01:12:21,745
So I thought, what an accurate tweet.

1213
01:12:21,745 --> 01:12:22,745
And I just thought, there you go.

1214
01:12:22,745 --> 01:12:24,745
I got a laugh out of that one.

1215
01:12:24,745 --> 01:12:26,745
We don't want any communism around here.

1216
01:12:26,745 --> 01:12:27,745
That's not good.

1217
01:12:27,745 --> 01:12:28,745
No communism.

1218
01:12:28,745 --> 01:12:29,745
No communism, please.

1219
01:12:29,745 --> 01:12:30,745
All right.

1220
01:12:30,745 --> 01:12:32,745
Well, talk about communism.

1221
01:12:32,745 --> 01:12:34,745
I'm going to end up with ETH as well.

1222
01:12:34,745 --> 01:12:38,745
Another sad ETH tweet just to round it out.

1223
01:12:38,745 --> 01:12:45,745
So Eric Wall, who we've spoken to with his little cat there, says, this is my
culture.

1224
01:12:45,745 --> 01:12:46,745
This is my culture.

1225
01:12:46,745 --> 01:12:48,745
Let's listen to the culture here.

1226
01:12:55,745 --> 01:12:57,745
Great start.

1227
01:12:57,745 --> 01:12:59,745
Thank you so much, Vitalik Buterin.

1228
01:12:59,745 --> 01:13:10,745
When you were talking, I saw everyone's eyes sparkling and then fully focused
without natural timing of blinking.

1229
01:13:10,745 --> 01:13:15,745
So I can tell how much they are looking forward to this precious moment.

1230
01:13:15,745 --> 01:13:17,745
Let's give a...

1231
01:13:17,745 --> 01:13:20,745
Oh, I'm too excited anymore.

1232
01:13:21,745 --> 01:13:24,745
Let's give a big applause.

1233
01:13:24,745 --> 01:13:25,745
Okay.

1234
01:13:25,745 --> 01:13:26,745
Thank you.

1235
01:13:26,745 --> 01:13:27,745
Thank you so much.

1236
01:13:27,745 --> 01:13:30,745
These poor people, their English is not their first language.

1237
01:13:30,745 --> 01:13:31,745
And so they're trying.

1238
01:13:31,745 --> 01:13:33,745
What if we had to speak Chinese?

1239
01:13:33,745 --> 01:13:35,745
I mean, it's the sentiment.

1240
01:13:35,745 --> 01:13:38,745
The sentiment is, you know, it's not the English.

1241
01:13:38,745 --> 01:13:40,745
It's like, she's like...

1242
01:13:40,745 --> 01:13:41,745
Yeah, I know.

1243
01:13:41,745 --> 01:13:42,745
I know.

1244
01:13:42,745 --> 01:13:43,745
She's like, I'm so overwhelmed.

1245
01:13:43,745 --> 01:13:47,745
This presentation is going to be the greatest thing ever made.

1246
01:13:47,745 --> 01:13:49,745
I love his body stance.

1247
01:13:49,745 --> 01:13:50,745
I don't know.

1248
01:13:50,745 --> 01:13:56,745
His body posture, his body language is so uncanny.

1249
01:13:56,745 --> 01:13:58,745
I've never seen anyone like it.

1250
01:13:58,745 --> 01:14:03,745
He's like that guy, like that weird philosopher who's always like moving around, you
know?

1251
01:14:03,745 --> 01:14:04,745
You know what I'm talking about?

1252
01:14:04,745 --> 01:14:05,745
What is his name?

1253
01:14:05,745 --> 01:14:07,745
Like Zizak or something?

1254
01:14:07,745 --> 01:14:08,745
This is shameful.

1255
01:14:08,745 --> 01:14:10,745
It must be a Bitcoin or something.

1256
01:14:10,745 --> 01:14:11,745
No, he's like...

1257
01:14:11,745 --> 01:14:12,745
He has like a very interesting way of talking.

1258
01:14:12,745 --> 01:14:15,745
And he's always like flinching and like...

1259
01:14:15,745 --> 01:14:18,745
I guess I don't know who it is, so I shouldn't have brought it up.

1260
01:14:18,745 --> 01:14:23,745
Apologies to that person whose work I have read, but I don't remember his name.

1261
01:14:23,745 --> 01:14:27,745
The live poll is up, so we'll get some votes.

1262
01:14:27,745 --> 01:14:29,745
We'll take a couple of minutes.

1263
01:14:29,745 --> 01:14:44,745
But, you know, speaking of Vitalik, it does feel like it's hopefully a time for some
reflection about the role of the founders on these chains.

1264
01:14:44,745 --> 01:14:47,745
You know, maybe it is good that they take a life of its own.

1265
01:14:47,745 --> 01:14:49,745
Even on Solano, we saw that Anatoly was...

1266
01:14:49,745 --> 01:14:57,745
He quote tweeted the RTR meme coin thing himself, and he put an American flag before
it rugged.

1267
01:14:57,745 --> 01:14:59,745
And I think maybe he deleted his tweet.

1268
01:14:59,745 --> 01:15:03,745
So, founders are not infallible, even blockchain.

1269
01:15:04,385 --> 01:15:11,385
Yeah, but so is Vitalik supposed to be like handcuffed to Ethereum for the rest of
his life? Like, is that... Yes. The premise?

1270
01:15:11,385 --> 01:15:16,385
Until he goes to 10k. If he goes to 10k, it's okay, he can leave.

1271
01:15:16,385 --> 01:15:25,385
Yeah, but I remember when people used to say, wow, if Bitcoin went to a thousand...
Can you imagine if Bitcoin went to a thousand dollars? And everyone said that was
the moon.

1272
01:15:25,385 --> 01:15:40,385
A thousand dollars per coin was the moon. So we go to the moon. And people thought,
can you imagine? And I knew people who said that when it went to $2 a coin, they
said, or even when it was $1, they said, wow, one Bitcoin is worth more than $1.

1273
01:15:40,385 --> 01:15:49,385
That proves that Bitcoin is better than the dollar. I remember when that happened on
my Bitcoin talk. So there will always be these people who say, oh, we want more. We
want it to be 100,000.

1274
01:15:50,385 --> 01:16:06,385
The only thing bearish right now about that is, you know, the founder of Bitcoin
can't do anything wrong at this point, you know, he's kind of disappeared, but
they're finding faults with everything that Vitalik is doing.

1275
01:16:06,385 --> 01:16:23,385
Apparently the poor guy, you know, he got a girlfriend, I think is what it looks
like. We'll look at this tweet, but it does look like a girlfriend, boyfriend type
of situation going on. And, you know, the Twittersphere started dumping all their
Eve because, you know...

1276
01:16:23,385 --> 01:16:40,385
He's not going to be as artistically focused on the mission. This is the issue with
centralization, though, is that people will try to harass Vitalik or and or
whatever, assassinate him or something, which I don't, you know, we don't encourage,
but...

1277
01:16:40,385 --> 01:16:41,385
Those matching hats, man.

1278
01:16:42,385 --> 01:16:54,385
It doesn't necessarily look like that could, you know, women, when they go, when
they take the selfie, they often lean in or they do, they try, they pull some kind
of, you know...

1279
01:16:54,385 --> 01:16:57,385
But he's not even looking at the camera, like her camera.

1280
01:16:57,385 --> 01:17:05,385
That's how Justin, remember when Justin was with Suzu in the nightclub and they took
a picture, that's how Justin was leaning. Got the line.

1281
01:17:05,385 --> 01:17:06,385
No, no, no, no.

1282
01:17:07,385 --> 01:17:15,385
I mean, many times, this is like a humble brag, but like people come up to me at a
conference and they're like, OK, we take a picture and you're like, what the fuck am
I going to say?

1283
01:17:15,385 --> 01:17:20,385
No, I can't say no. They could just like stand near me and just take it and then I'm
going to look like an idiot.

1284
01:17:20,385 --> 01:17:30,385
So, so, yeah, you always just kind of smile and say, sure. And then what are you
going to do? Are you going to do the hover hand? You know, people don't like that.
People complain no matter what you do.

1285
01:17:31,385 --> 01:17:44,385
We have a great, we have an amazing comment, by the way. Somebody says the reason
Jump was dumping is because they had a, they front ran the girlfriend news. They had
a high frequency feed for the girlfriend news and started dumping.

1286
01:17:44,385 --> 01:17:48,385
Smart, actually, it's very smart. That's why they're the best.

1287
01:17:49,385 --> 01:18:03,385
You get in, you say, you put in your short, you say, I'm going to short ETH and then
you, you hire some, some women and you say, listen, I need you to do Vitalik's
girlfriend and we'll make it, we'll make a hundred million dollars.

1288
01:18:03,385 --> 01:18:06,385
I hope Marutoshi comes back. I'd love to see what he's up to.

1289
01:18:06,385 --> 01:18:09,385
That could work, actually. No, like that could actually work like every day.

1290
01:18:09,385 --> 01:18:17,385
Paul, you should have said more of these ideas. These are amazing. This is like a
hundred million dollar idea right here.

1291
01:18:17,385 --> 01:18:22,385
Someone's going to do this. Someone's going to do this for sure.

1292
01:18:22,385 --> 01:18:24,385
All right, so we have the poll results.

1293
01:18:24,385 --> 01:18:26,385
Oh, great.

1294
01:18:26,385 --> 01:18:29,385
I think, I think the.

1295
01:18:29,385 --> 01:18:35,385
Only 10% of listeners voted. First of all, that's a, that's a huge problem. We got
to get those numbers up.

1296
01:18:35,385 --> 01:18:39,385
The, that video was captivating.

1297
01:18:39,385 --> 01:18:42,385
I was on the edge of my seat.

1298
01:18:42,385 --> 01:18:45,385
Were you, were you blinking? Were you blinking naturally?

1299
01:18:45,385 --> 01:18:50,385
I didn't know what was going to happen. I was like, how, I mean, I feel like that
could have gone on and on and on too.

1300
01:18:50,385 --> 01:18:56,385
Like maybe it just starts and it's just so just awkward thing about like 12
dimensional hypercubes or whatever.

1301
01:18:56,385 --> 01:19:01,385
And you're just like, so awkward and everyone's just like pretending cuts to the
audience.

1302
01:19:01,385 --> 01:19:04,385
The audience is like pretending to pay attention.

1303
01:19:04,385 --> 01:19:09,385
Vitalik's face encapsulated the WTF of that moment.

1304
01:19:10,385 --> 01:19:14,385
He's got that like really dramatic hairline now.

1305
01:19:14,385 --> 01:19:15,385
The hairline?

1306
01:19:15,385 --> 01:19:19,385
His hairline, yes. I remember a young Vitalik.

1307
01:19:19,385 --> 01:19:25,385
This is wartime Vitalik. He's got to shave his head and really get rid of his
girlfriend and commit to building.

1308
01:19:25,385 --> 01:19:27,385
That would be bullish. That would be so bullish.

1309
01:19:27,385 --> 01:19:33,385
Then if he meets 10K and he gets like the hair surgery or something or whatever, I
don't know, like.

1310
01:19:33,385 --> 01:19:35,385
Goes to Turkey.

1311
01:19:36,385 --> 01:19:37,385
Oh man.

1312
01:19:37,385 --> 01:19:43,385
Or he goes like full Joe Rogan and he's just like MMA fighter, podcaster.

1313
01:19:43,385 --> 01:19:47,385
Oh my God. The comments are brutal.

1314
01:19:47,385 --> 01:19:52,385
All right, Paul. Well, thank you so much for helping out.

1315
01:19:52,385 --> 01:19:56,385
Yo, can we pull up the comment by NG?

1316
01:19:56,385 --> 01:19:59,385
I don't see a comment from NG actually.

1317
01:19:59,385 --> 01:20:02,385
I don't see any comments other than it must have pulled up.

1318
01:20:02,385 --> 01:20:03,385
What does the comment say?

1319
01:20:03,385 --> 01:20:06,385
All right. All right, guys.

1320
01:20:06,385 --> 01:20:07,385
You know.

1321
01:20:07,385 --> 01:20:11,385
You got to pull it up now, Justin. You got to pull it up.

1322
01:20:11,385 --> 01:20:13,385
You know.

1323
01:20:13,385 --> 01:20:15,385
Oh.

1324
01:20:15,385 --> 01:20:18,385
That's dirty, guys. That's dirty.

1325
01:20:18,385 --> 01:20:19,385
That's dirty.

1326
01:20:19,385 --> 01:20:21,385
No comment about other men's hair.

1327
01:20:21,385 --> 01:20:22,385
That's not. Yeah.

1328
01:20:22,385 --> 01:20:23,385
Yeah.

1329
01:20:23,385 --> 01:20:24,385
Yeah.

1330
01:20:24,385 --> 01:20:25,385
Oh man. All right.

1331
01:20:25,385 --> 01:20:29,385
You're asking for trouble. Then it will happen to you. That's how it happens.

1332
01:20:29,385 --> 01:20:31,385
Oh man. All right.

1333
01:20:31,385 --> 01:20:33,385
Well, thanks, everybody, for joining.

1334
01:20:33,385 --> 01:20:39,385
Hair cloning, DNA hair cloning. I haven't read that in like five years.

1335
01:20:39,385 --> 01:20:40,385
Please like and subscribe.

1336
01:20:40,385 --> 01:20:47,385
Thank you to Paul for hopping on this week and sharing everything going on in
Bitcoin land.

1337
01:20:47,385 --> 01:20:50,385
And we'll see you guys next week. Take care.

1338
01:20:50,385 --> 01:20:51,385
Peace.