1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Thank you for listening. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 Have a great day. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Be well. 4 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Hello there and welcome to the Bitcoin Takeover podcast. 5 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,240 This is season 17, episode 37 I think. 6 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,540 And we have Paul Sztorc for the 11th time on the show, which is a new record, and we're 7 00:01:28,540 --> 00:01:33,940 gonna have the shortest conversation ever, because he only has like 30 minutes until 8 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:36,860 he has to go jump in another call. 9 00:01:36,860 --> 00:01:39,820 It's really good to have you, Paul. 10 00:01:39,820 --> 00:01:40,820 Thanks for having me. 11 00:01:40,820 --> 00:01:41,820 How's life? 12 00:01:41,820 --> 00:01:44,780 It's pretty good, I suppose. 13 00:01:44,780 --> 00:01:49,780 It's been four months since you announced that you're gonna hard fork Bitcoin, and I 14 00:01:49,780 --> 00:01:52,980 was one of the podcasters who enabled this. 15 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:58,340 And I was actually curious how this is going, because recently, and this was I think two 16 00:01:58,340 --> 00:02:03,380 or three days ago, you announced that the rollout of the hard fork is gonna happen in 17 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:08,740 three phases, with an alpha happening this month in about two weeks. 18 00:02:08,740 --> 00:02:12,860 Unironically two weeks, that's how long it's gonna take. 19 00:02:12,860 --> 00:02:18,980 There's gonna be a beta next month, and then on October 31st, Halloween night, Bitcoin's 20 00:02:18,980 --> 00:02:21,780 18th birthday, there's the mainnet launch. 21 00:02:21,780 --> 00:02:24,140 How does this work? 22 00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:30,940 Well, you know, I think like all the software is basically the L1 software, because the 23 00:02:30,940 --> 00:02:36,780 L1 is the same as Bitcoin Core, so that's been ready, and the Bit300, 301 Enforcer, 24 00:02:36,780 --> 00:02:37,780 all that stuff's ready. 25 00:02:37,780 --> 00:02:44,940 So we were gonna launch everything in August, but for a wide variety of reasons, like one 26 00:02:44,940 --> 00:02:48,420 is just that it's like the summer and people aren't paying enough pension, but then there's 27 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:57,700 also the cold card hack, and this LLM security stuff, everyone was distracted with 110. 28 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:02,020 And yet another reason is we want, so we basically just wanted to let people practice a few times 29 00:03:02,020 --> 00:03:11,540 before the real super launch, because, you know, what we have to offer is, I think, pretty 30 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:13,020 transformative. 31 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:17,420 And so I think the more people learn about it, the better they'll like it. 32 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:21,220 So we wanted to make it, we had to slow it down a little bit and give people a few practice 33 00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:22,220 runs. 34 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:28,100 And you can turn in, if you accumulate 1,000 of the practice coins, you can turn them in 35 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:32,900 for 10 real coins or 20 real coins with the beta. 36 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:36,420 So it's kind of like a little bit of the best of both worlds, so you get to practice, but 37 00:03:36,420 --> 00:03:41,300 then there's also something that should theoretically have all the real world value and all the 38 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:45,340 real upside of the eventual coin that launches. 39 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:50,220 So it's kind of like a 1%, since it's 1,000 to 1, since it's 1,000 to 10, it's like a 40 00:03:50,220 --> 00:03:55,260 1%, it's kind of like a 1% launch. 41 00:03:55,260 --> 00:04:00,700 Is this a way to better test the software and also in order to get those coins on the 42 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:06,940 alpha and the beta version of the network, which are like successors to what you already 43 00:04:06,940 --> 00:04:14,340 have with the dry net, I think, you're running that for testing, like, do people need to 44 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:21,260 claim with the real Bitcoin in order to get the coins on these e-cash alpha and beta networks? 45 00:04:21,260 --> 00:04:24,780 Or is there another way to get access to coins? 46 00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:31,780 Well, you do need the Bitcoin private key, but you don't necessarily need to type that 47 00:04:31,780 --> 00:04:33,060 into our software. 48 00:04:33,060 --> 00:04:37,260 You can split it off by broadcasting a certain type of transaction. 49 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:42,300 And there's this information, we have this repository, like the fast facts repository 50 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:47,740 on GitHub, and you can, there's lots of stuff in there, like how to mine, how to split off 51 00:04:47,740 --> 00:04:53,020 the coins and how to do the replay protection the right way. 52 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:55,220 By default, there is no replay protection. 53 00:04:55,220 --> 00:04:58,620 But if you do a certain thing, you split the coins off permanently. 54 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:04,260 I would imagine a lot of people would not necessarily be comfortable typing their private 55 00:05:04,260 --> 00:05:10,500 key, their Bitcoin private key into something, moving the coins, especially very few people 56 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:12,900 will want to be the first through the door. 57 00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:17,020 So I think it's probably not for most people. 58 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:20,540 But yeah, if you have a private key that only has like $100 worth of Bitcoin in it or something 59 00:05:20,540 --> 00:05:27,340 you want to play around with this, that will automatically give you the e-cash. 60 00:05:27,340 --> 00:05:30,180 Of course, the other way to get the e-cash is just the same way you would get Bitcoin, 61 00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:36,300 which is to either mine it or buy it from someone or find people who have it. 62 00:05:36,300 --> 00:05:40,900 So I think even though, because you asked about testing the software, you know, testing 63 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:44,420 the software is only actually a very small piece of it all because people have to test 64 00:05:44,420 --> 00:05:45,420 all kinds of things. 65 00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:48,620 So how am I going to mine this for real? 66 00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:51,100 How would we exchange this for real? 67 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:53,140 You know, how does my wallet work with this? 68 00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:58,300 So actually, merely testing the software to see if it works is a very small percentage 69 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:00,700 of all the things that need to be tested. 70 00:06:00,700 --> 00:06:04,300 So this is an opportunity to test all those things. 71 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:11,020 So you're saying that you can use your SHA-256D miner to operate on the alpha and the beta 72 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:16,220 networks and claim e-cash, which later is going to get converted after the mainnet launch 73 00:06:16,220 --> 00:06:17,220 100-to-1? 74 00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:23,660 Yeah, basically, but there's a threshold of a thousand to stop there from being like just 75 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:30,860 too many conversions, you know, like you didn't want there to be like millions of conversions 76 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:31,860 or something. 77 00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:34,260 So it's a thousand to ten. 78 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:40,740 So if you get a thousand or more, then it's 100-to-1, so it's 1%. 79 00:06:40,740 --> 00:06:44,340 And the mining is SHA-256D, same as Bitcoin. 80 00:06:44,340 --> 00:06:48,460 And although obviously the price will be nowhere near of this of this alpha network will be 81 00:06:48,460 --> 00:06:54,700 nowhere near $100,000 per coin, the difficulty is also proportionally much, much lower. 82 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:58,340 So it should be very, very easy to mine. 83 00:06:58,340 --> 00:07:06,300 So it should theoretically still be profitable to mine, even with old SHA-256D hardware that 84 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,540 would not be profitable on BTC. 85 00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:14,120 Yeah, it's probably a good time to dust off your S9 or whatever. 86 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,980 But I was going to mention this because it's been a long struggle for you over the last 87 00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:24,380 four months to figure out where you're going to set the difficulty on launch day. 88 00:07:24,380 --> 00:07:28,180 And initially you said it's going to be one and then you realized, you know, maybe it's 89 00:07:28,180 --> 00:07:30,700 a bad idea and you're not sure. 90 00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:34,780 But now that you're going to have an alpha and a beta version of the network with real 91 00:07:34,780 --> 00:07:38,980 miners is going to give you information about how many miners are going to be joining on 92 00:07:38,980 --> 00:07:46,220 day one when you get the real mainnet launch on October 31st, which means you're going 93 00:07:46,220 --> 00:07:48,340 to be able to adjust the difficulty better. 94 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:50,860 Is that a good way to understand it? 95 00:07:50,860 --> 00:07:53,500 Yeah, I wouldn't say that it was a struggle. 96 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:58,780 And even when I said one difficulty to one, I thought it was a little bit of like a hyperbole 97 00:07:58,780 --> 00:08:05,220 because of an exaggeration, because like a single bit X could take you to like, I don't 98 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:08,540 know exactly what the number is, but it's something like one million difficulty because 99 00:08:08,540 --> 00:08:11,900 it's logarithmic. So we just meant it would be very, very low. 100 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:15,660 Although you're right that we don't really know what number it should be. 101 00:08:16,540 --> 00:08:23,340 So the question is, do you just kind of guess and do back of the envelope math or do you 102 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:28,220 do you just set it super low and just allow it to overshoot and then come back? 103 00:08:29,180 --> 00:08:35,660 With this, we should have some idea of, you know, just a clearer picture. 104 00:08:35,660 --> 00:08:42,820 It wouldn't necessarily clarify it totally, but it would be just it gives a very accurate 105 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:47,180 glimpse of like what the future price would be and the future hash rate also. 106 00:08:47,180 --> 00:08:48,780 So both of those things are pretty useful. 107 00:08:49,780 --> 00:08:54,860 Although it will still be an imperfect glimpse because, you know, it will involve this 108 00:08:54,860 --> 00:09:02,140 conversion and involve thresholds and and who knows if it gets if the alpha and beta 109 00:09:02,140 --> 00:09:05,540 will get a similar amount of attention as the. 110 00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:09,940 The full launch, so I think it will be. 111 00:09:11,780 --> 00:09:16,540 It will be a clearer glimpse, you know, it's like we're kind of fighting through the fog 112 00:09:16,780 --> 00:09:20,500 or like with binoculars, we're like bringing it more into focus. 113 00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:25,020 So we're going to just continue to do that. 114 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:30,460 I think everyone will benefit from having more information about where the launch is 115 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:31,060 going to land. 116 00:09:34,220 --> 00:09:41,540 Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of uncertainties, we're seeing how even the other fork 117 00:09:41,540 --> 00:09:45,660 that's happening, and I don't want to waste any time talking about it, but they seem to 118 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:51,100 have a lot of struggles and they figure out as they go and you're much more organized in 119 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:56,580 this respect. It seems like you're planning ahead and you're thinking about everything. 120 00:09:56,580 --> 00:10:01,580 And that's why you're going to have that's why you gave people so much time to prepare 121 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:07,260 and call to action, withdraw your coins from exchanges, accumulate as much Bitcoin as you 122 00:10:07,260 --> 00:10:13,220 can so you can claim as much e-cash as you possibly can, and then withdraw from exchanges 123 00:10:13,220 --> 00:10:15,100 because that's going to be the best way. 124 00:10:16,660 --> 00:10:24,020 Yes, you should do that in general, because the network only recognizes like one owner of 125 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:29,860 the coin. So if you have coins on an exchange, then really they are the owner of the 126 00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:35,180 of the coins. And but yes, it's a tough season. 127 00:10:35,180 --> 00:10:42,620 It's a tough summer to recommend, you know, self-custody, cold storage or whatever. 128 00:10:42,620 --> 00:10:43,740 Oh, don't use cold card. 129 00:10:43,820 --> 00:10:45,580 OK, just don't use cold card. 130 00:10:45,860 --> 00:10:48,980 You're better off using an iPhone with Electrum or whatever. 131 00:10:50,340 --> 00:10:57,820 Yeah, that's true. If you really if you can put well, we don't want to like, but it's hard 132 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:01,700 to it takes a lot of time to describe what to recommend people do. 133 00:11:01,700 --> 00:11:03,020 We should probably put out like a guide. 134 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:05,500 I could put out like a guide for like what I do. 135 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:13,740 But. But, yeah, I think it's it's still very important. 136 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:18,740 And if you are you have the private key, you're the real owner of the coins. 137 00:11:18,740 --> 00:11:20,180 And if you're not, then someone else's. 138 00:11:20,180 --> 00:11:23,340 So. So you don't do that. 139 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:31,740 I do think it's fascinating that one ten people, almost everything is different, where like 140 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:37,260 I was kind of like, oh, we don't have 50 percent hashrate support right now because 141 00:11:37,580 --> 00:11:39,900 really not no soft fork does. 142 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:44,580 And no one none have activated, you know, only two have activated in the last 10 years 143 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:48,020 and. And none since twenty twenty one. 144 00:11:49,140 --> 00:11:54,020 And so we were kind of like, oh, we know that we don't have 51 percent hashrate support, 145 00:11:54,020 --> 00:11:55,060 so we do this hard fork. 146 00:11:55,060 --> 00:11:59,700 But one ten was like, oh, we definitely have, you know, 100 percent of the hashrate 147 00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:05,460 support. And really they had zero, probably probably less in a way because they but. 148 00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:12,020 And then they were saying, you know, we won't need to hard fork, but then they had now 149 00:12:12,020 --> 00:12:16,660 they are. And so then we planned it all out in advance to get like the right and right 150 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:18,820 name, the right domain name. 151 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:25,820 So it is very bizarre that they and now they have to, you know, as people can see, some 152 00:12:25,820 --> 00:12:30,100 people are like lurking in their discord and stuff and they're just like struggling to 153 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:35,940 pick. The names are going to pick the which proof of work they say, you know, for all 154 00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:40,820 these all these years, months and months, they've been saying we won't need to change 155 00:12:40,820 --> 00:12:43,820 the proof of work, and then people have said, well, yeah, but won't you like if it 156 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:48,700 doesn't work and then they say, oh, it's not going to happen, then it's kind of like now 157 00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:51,020 they're just picking and picking it all now like what to do. 158 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:55,100 So it's, you know, it's kind of an interesting train wreck to watch. 159 00:12:57,740 --> 00:13:02,300 Yeah, I also want to talk about the drive chains that will be available at launch, because 160 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:08,580 I remember for a long time it was five and then it became seven and then I think now 161 00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:15,100 it's 12 and possibly by the time we're getting near to the launch, it will be many more 162 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,980 because people come up with ideas and they get creative. 163 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:23,340 And as long as the miners are willing to collect fees from whatever it is that they want 164 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:25,140 to build, it's going to happen. 165 00:13:25,980 --> 00:13:31,500 But before that, I want to announce the giveaway of this episode and Paul, you're going 166 00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:36,620 to have to write down a number from one to one hundred and not reveal it until the end 167 00:13:36,620 --> 00:13:41,900 when you have to go. It's going to be one hundred dollars worth of Bitcoin and you can 168 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:48,540 use that to claim e-cash in October, I guess, but you can also participate in the alpha 169 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:54,940 and the beta. It's given by Cake Wallet, which hopefully will support e-cash very soon. 170 00:13:57,540 --> 00:14:02,860 And the other sponsors are Layer 2 Labs, which is building e-cash, go to e-cash.com and 171 00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:07,940 check out what they're building, run the software, talk to the people in the telegram, 172 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:13,340 just realize what Bitcoin could have been if we got BIP 300. 173 00:14:13,380 --> 00:14:14,620 That's kind of the whole point. 174 00:14:14,980 --> 00:14:17,260 Sideshift, which is a place where you can swap. 175 00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:21,900 Usually I recommend people to just swap stable coins for sound money. 176 00:14:22,180 --> 00:14:25,340 I think they're going to support e-cash, if I'm not mistaken. 177 00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:26,940 They seem to be very optimistic. 178 00:14:27,260 --> 00:14:32,700 Andreas is possibly one of the smartest Bitcoiners out there, and he was able to 179 00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:39,820 rationalize everything through the forks and realize who's wrong and who's right and 180 00:14:39,820 --> 00:14:43,660 not think in terms of absolute right or wrong. 181 00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:45,460 So, yeah, Sideshift, check them out. 182 00:14:46,220 --> 00:14:52,140 Also, Brains Hashpower, which I think can be used to mine e-cash if you want. 183 00:14:52,140 --> 00:14:58,540 If you don't have dedicated gears at home for mining, you can just go to hashpower.brains.com 184 00:14:58,580 --> 00:15:07,180 with a double I and you are able to rent, hash, rate SHA-256D to mine e-cash and you 185 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:12,460 can do that. I think you can get like 10 Bit Axes or 1000 Bit Axes for very cheap, much 186 00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:16,020 cheaper than actually buying hardware and waiting for it to get shipped to your door. 187 00:15:16,580 --> 00:15:17,900 So it's very convenient. 188 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:23,980 I know that also the Nazis, you know, the BIP 110ers or whatever, have been using it 189 00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:29,460 because Matthew Pratt or told them to, but they used it to fake like their support to 190 00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:33,100 make it look like more miners are supporting their fork. 191 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:37,620 But in the case of e-cash, you can use it to actually get rewards, which is very cool. 192 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:40,180 So use Brains Hashpower. 193 00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:44,460 And last but not least, there is Orange Rock, which is the place where you can trade 194 00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:47,340 without KYC, without limits. 195 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:52,020 Hopefully they will support e-cash and you can even use leverage if you want. 196 00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:54,940 OrangeRock.com, I don't recommend leverage. 197 00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:56,500 Don't gamble your money, be smart. 198 00:15:56,620 --> 00:15:58,900 But if you think you're smarter than me, do whatever. 199 00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:04,780 OK, Paul, let's talk about the 12 beautiful drive chains that we have so far. 200 00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:12,580 Well, the two types that I think would most interest people are Thunder, which is can 201 00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:19,020 scale to 8 billion people, and that is the tests for that are available on GitHub. 202 00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:22,060 So it sounds like kind of a crazy claim, but it's really not that because it's 203 00:16:22,060 --> 00:16:25,020 basically a large block side chain where the performance is optimized. 204 00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:33,140 And then the Z side, which was made by someone else, but we are very happy with it. 205 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:39,460 And it uses the Orchard crate from Rust, the one, you know, they fixed the bug in it, 206 00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:43,180 the bug fixed, but uses Orchard from Zcash to Altcoin. 207 00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:46,940 So you have the private Z addresses that hide the sender, the receiver and the amount. 208 00:16:49,060 --> 00:16:53,420 Then we have one based on BitNames, excuse me, one based on Namecoin called BitNames. 209 00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:58,020 And then we have one called BitAssets, which is kind of like for like your, it 210 00:16:58,020 --> 00:17:01,860 would be for like stable coins, meme coins, you know, stuff that you issue, issuing 211 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:08,420 tokens. Then we have a few others that some are ones about prediction markets. 212 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:09,460 That was a big thing of mine. 213 00:17:09,860 --> 00:17:14,220 One is about trading different L1 coins. 214 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:15,620 It's called CoinShift. 215 00:17:16,620 --> 00:17:23,300 Some of the others made by other people are like, just like two different EVM flavors 216 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:24,700 that people are working on. 217 00:17:25,540 --> 00:17:30,580 And there's one that is like kind of like an OpCat type of a thing. 218 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:31,740 So again, I don't know. 219 00:17:31,740 --> 00:17:36,940 These are in various, some of these are in various stages of being completed or 220 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:38,820 bought. Then there's another one. 221 00:17:39,340 --> 00:17:46,780 And it's, I can't remember, it's some kind of like post-EVM, like science project type 222 00:17:46,780 --> 00:17:54,580 thing. So there's like about seven that we have done and about five that other people 223 00:17:54,580 --> 00:18:03,220 have put out as, you know, either completed code or in the case of Zside or rough, kind 224 00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:07,660 of rough draft. So there are quite a few now. 225 00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:10,580 Well, that's interesting. 226 00:18:11,660 --> 00:18:17,900 I think that the community first came up with Elements Plus, which is this idea that 227 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:20,300 they're going to take Blockstream's work, but make it better. 228 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:24,820 They already have OpCat on Elements and they added CTV and some other stuff and they 229 00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:30,940 want to make it like the chain that is everything Bitcoiners wish they had to build 230 00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:33,340 stuff today, but probably they're not going to get. 231 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:37,460 And I'm actually curious why. 232 00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:41,900 Yeah, Blockstream worked really hard on this Elements thing and it had, for example, 233 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:53,700 OpCat, but it also had like different types of signatures that, you know, like it had 234 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,860 like you could do like these like multi-sig where it was like 12,000 out of 20,000 or 235 00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:02,260 something like that. Maybe I'm exaggerating it, but they had all this cool stuff that 236 00:19:02,260 --> 00:19:05,060 they built a long time ago and that was going to be like their first side chain. 237 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:11,220 No, we don't really see it in the wild today anywhere, but you could make it L2 drive 238 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:12,180 chain. So someone did. 239 00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:16,100 And then the plus part was they added CTV and like something else. 240 00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:18,060 So that's that's pretty cool. 241 00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:21,300 And that's neat because it's like just an easy, completable project. 242 00:19:21,820 --> 00:19:23,140 You just take Blockstream's stuff. 243 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:31,380 I actually got a funny question and I want to read it out loud, but I want to find 244 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:37,620 exactly who asked it, because I got to give credit for asking this good question. 245 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:42,580 The question is, how many Lightning implementations are going to be available at launch 246 00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:46,380 on drive chains? But I got to give credit to the person. 247 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,140 So you can answer it and then I'll find. 248 00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:50,860 Yeah, hopefully zero, but whatever. 249 00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:51,980 They should all still work. 250 00:19:52,180 --> 00:19:56,780 It's not like they because the L1 is exactly the same as Bitcoin Core. 251 00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:58,860 So. It. 252 00:20:00,980 --> 00:20:03,700 It's all the same as Bitcoin Core, but it's. 253 00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:09,580 But, you know, Lightning is a failed idea, and you can see you got to go to the Telegram 254 00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:15,100 Lightning's best moments, it's like I think it's t.me slash Lightning fantasy or something. 255 00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:18,860 But yeah, Lightning has been a dead project for a long time. 256 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:20,460 People just don't realize it yet. 257 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:23,460 The evidence is overwhelming that it will not survive. 258 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:28,100 Well, yeah, but people still unfortunately, I'm going to have to go like really soon. 259 00:20:28,420 --> 00:20:34,140 Oh, no. OK, so is there anything that you want to talk in 10 minutes or so? 260 00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:36,020 You said you can stay until 15. 261 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:39,500 No, I don't think I can. 262 00:20:40,420 --> 00:20:41,420 You have to go now. 263 00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:42,420 No. Yeah. 264 00:20:43,580 --> 00:20:45,500 OK, Paul, reveal your number. 265 00:20:45,740 --> 00:20:47,140 And I chose the number 10. 266 00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:51,220 You chose the number 10 and there's only one 77 in the chat. 267 00:20:51,260 --> 00:20:55,420 I guess I can either give the price to 77 or just announce that nobody won. 268 00:20:55,980 --> 00:21:01,820 I'm not sure how this is going to work, but this is much shorter and people joined 269 00:21:01,820 --> 00:21:04,020 on a short notice. We announced this much earlier. 270 00:21:04,020 --> 00:21:08,300 I'm sorry, everyone, I've ruined the giveaway. 271 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:11,100 It's you know, he's a busy man nowadays. 272 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:12,100 He's hard to get. 273 00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:17,340 OK, so we have the announcement that we're going to have this free stage launch and 274 00:21:17,340 --> 00:21:22,180 there's going to be more drive chains than we initially thought, and possibly there 275 00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:25,540 will be many more by the time we get to October 31st. 276 00:21:25,860 --> 00:21:26,860 Thank you very much, Paul. 277 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:28,700 I'll let you go do your daily. 278 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:29,900 We'll go back. We'll do another. 279 00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:35,020 We can do another small episode sometime in like a day or two. 280 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:37,300 Well, I guess we'll see. 281 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:38,300 We'll see. 282 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:40,780 Sometime in like a day or two. 283 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:47,300 Well, I maybe maybe I can just edit them and put them together as well. 284 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:50,060 OK, maybe that can work. 285 00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:55,340 But also thanks to everyone who joined this one, because, you know, it matters. 286 00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:58,220 Showing up is important and I appreciate it. 287 00:21:58,820 --> 00:22:00,260 And what else? 288 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:06,780 Try the tech, because we all wish Bitcoin became better. 289 00:22:07,260 --> 00:22:13,140 I look at Hadlonad and whatever, and not even he is like this toxic maximalist 290 00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:17,180 anymore. But on the other hand, they're building something which is reducing what 291 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:23,020 Bitcoin can do. And this is about maximizing what Bitcoin can do, which was the 292 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:24,700 maximalist thesis all along. 293 00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:32,780 So, yeah, check out the software and think about ways in which we can actually get 294 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:36,940 this technology to work for everyone without massive tradeoffs. 295 00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:44,820 Because I don't think banks or federations or custodians are the future for scaling 296 00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:48,340 and they shouldn't be and we shouldn't compromise on this stuff. 297 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:52,140 Paul left. He left me alone, as I expected. 298 00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:55,620 Thank you guys for showing up once again. 299 00:22:55,860 --> 00:22:58,660 This was the shortest poll source interview I've ever done. 300 00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:04,860 And once again, thanks to the sponsors, Cake Wallet, I guess I will give the 301 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:06,820 giveaway to the guy. 302 00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:08,580 Someone said it was too quick. 303 00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:13,500 Someone wants to know if there will be a BIP 110 drive chain. 304 00:23:13,540 --> 00:23:15,220 I can ask this from Paul. 305 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:18,260 I can just talk to you guys. 306 00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,900 I guess you won row hit with your 77. 307 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:27,340 You're the winner. You can send me your address from Cake Wallet if you want to 308 00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:30,660 claim the prize. Otherwise, I can just give it to someone else next time. 309 00:23:32,540 --> 00:23:34,420 What was I saying before this? 310 00:23:35,740 --> 00:23:38,700 Yeah, this was the shortest poll source interview ever. 311 00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:45,380 We usually go for like two or three hours, but we made it happen much faster because 312 00:23:46,220 --> 00:23:51,500 I think I really wanted to have this conversation about the launch and give people 313 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:54,540 an update about what's going on with this fork. 314 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:56,620 It's the summer forks. 315 00:23:56,620 --> 00:24:02,660 It's going to be the autumn of forks right now because it seems like BIP 110 is 316 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:04,220 delaying their action. 317 00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:08,260 They're going to do more stuff in September or whatever. 318 00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:17,020 And Paul, with his BIP 300 fork, is going to extend until the 31st of October, which 319 00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:23,100 is also the 18th birthday of Bitcoin's first announcement on the Cypherpunk 320 00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:26,260 cryptography mailing list, which is Metzdaoud. 321 00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,900 I've actually interviewed Perry Metzger on the show. 322 00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:34,020 You can check out that interview to learn more about that first night when Bitcoin was 323 00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:35,940 announced on that mailing list. 324 00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:43,820 And that's also the date of the launch of eCash, which once again is going to give 325 00:24:43,820 --> 00:24:49,580 everyone free coins that they can use, is going to give everyone the opportunity to 326 00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:54,340 test this technology, which has been around and has been hyped for 10 plus years. 327 00:24:54,780 --> 00:25:00,460 What's different compared to other L2s that have been created since, for example, 328 00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:07,060 Rollups and Lightning and everything else, the difference is that all the transaction 329 00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:08,340 fees go to the miners. 330 00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:11,780 So it's something that truly maximizes the potential of proof of work. 331 00:25:12,460 --> 00:25:19,740 And I've been excited about drivechains since 2018 or something when I first learned 332 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:25,980 about them, and I feel like if I didn't support any initiative that pushes this 333 00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:30,660 forward, I would be like, you know, like a lame hypocrite who doesn't have any 334 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:34,980 conviction or courage to stand up for something that he believes in. 335 00:25:35,740 --> 00:25:37,340 I really like Paul's work. 336 00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:39,540 I wish him all the best. 337 00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:44,500 I hope that a Bitcoin competitor is really going to push Bitcoin forward. 338 00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:49,820 So if there's going to be a chain that actually takes real users, real hash rate, 339 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:56,900 real capital, and that it's a one to one copy of Bitcoin and that basically the same 340 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:02,380 holders hold the same amount of coins, I hope that this approach is actually going to 341 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:04,060 push Bitcoin to improve. 342 00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:08,980 But if it doesn't, I wouldn't mind if we're going to be using eCash in the future as 343 00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:14,820 opposed to Bitcoin. As long as the mission gets achieved and we have this truly 344 00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:16,380 cypherpunk money. 345 00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:21,060 So Rohit says that he wants the prize and he's going to claim it. 346 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:23,420 Yeah, quickest podcast ever. 347 00:26:25,180 --> 00:26:29,740 You guys sort of missed out if you were not here, but I apologize for starting later. 348 00:26:29,740 --> 00:26:31,540 Also, Paul didn't have the time. 349 00:26:31,540 --> 00:26:33,900 He's a big time CEO now. 350 00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,140 He's harder to get than Vitalik, I guess. 351 00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:44,460 And he's on calls 8 to 10 hours a day and he sort of has to compromise sometimes. 352 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:47,660 I ended up with the shorter end of the stick with this. 353 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:51,180 Anyway, thank you all for joining. 354 00:26:51,180 --> 00:26:56,060 I hope that you're going to do more research about eCash after watching this. 355 00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:02,460 Don't waste too much time looking at BIP110 because these guys are sort of lost and 356 00:27:02,460 --> 00:27:05,380 also not mentally well by the looks of it. 357 00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:12,580 Just look forward to the kind of technology that is positive and tries to bring a 358 00:27:12,580 --> 00:27:18,940 change into the world for the better, not one that says, well, this is holy and we 359 00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:26,260 should reduce the ways in which you can use it and make it less usable for the 360 00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:28,980 people. So, yeah. 361 00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:35,460 I'm optimistic overall about a good future where we can take control and have our own 362 00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:37,620 version of peer to peer electronic cash. 363 00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:40,940 Maybe we're going to turn Bitcoin around to make that happen. 364 00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:42,420 Maybe it will be something else. 365 00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:47,580 I'm all here for the journey to figure out how this is going to work out. 366 00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:52,580 And thank you very much, guys, for being part of this ride. 367 00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:57,260 Once again, check out eCash.com for more information. 368 00:27:57,580 --> 00:28:00,860 I'm sorry that Paul was not here to explain everything. 369 00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:07,900 There are 12 drive chains that you can actually test today on what they call the 370 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:12,860 dry net, which is like a test net with real mining. 371 00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:17,900 And they're also going to have the alpha and the beta version where you can mine, 372 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:23,260 you can claim your coins, you can test stuff, you can actually interact with 373 00:28:23,260 --> 00:28:24,740 people, accumulate coins. 374 00:28:24,740 --> 00:28:30,060 You're going to be able to get some real e-cash based on what you accumulate during 375 00:28:30,060 --> 00:28:30,900 this experiment. 376 00:28:31,820 --> 00:28:33,340 And thank you, guys. 377 00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:39,300 I'll see you in the next one when hopefully I will have a much longer interview. 378 00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:40,380 Bye.