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Hello, this is Alex Waltz.

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And this is Paul Sztorc.

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And this is Bitcoin Reservations. How's it going, Paul? How are you, man?

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Good. That was a very organic introduction.

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Right, right. How did the quality of your existence fluctuate in the last week?

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Let's see. I think most of the fluctuations were good. We had Thanksgiving,

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a happy Thanksgiving to everyone, to both people who are listening.

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And it's a time of expressing what you're thankful for.

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And I don't know, I'm thankful.

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I'm thankful for both of our listeners.

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Right. Yeah. I think there's free listeners.

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There's someone who texted me in private.

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By the way, the feedback that I keep constantly getting was that they thought I'm

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interviewing you. They didn't tell you you're the co-host.

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Well, you know, I have many reservations about this show already myself.

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So I have Bitcoin Reservations reservations.

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I think people could pick up on that.

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Right. Well, you said specifically, I'm looking for someone who doesn't need to do a

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podcast.

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Let's bring a bit of context.

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So what ended up happening is that I really wanted to do a podcast and I've tried

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doing one before and I was really pissed off that I couldn't be myself, dude.

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I was doing exactly what everyone else is doing and trying to sound like everyone.

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But I don't talk like everyone.

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I like to talk about drugs, about hookers, about all these things.

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And I feel like I was pulling back. So I said, you know what?

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I need a co-host. And I wrote this creative brief,

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which if people request from us, I'll share in private.

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And there were some things there that I, on the requirements.

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One of them was that the co-host wants to do the podcast, doesn't need to do a

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podcast. And I sent it to a lot of people.

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And then it got to you.

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Yes. I don't know if I want to do a podcast, but I definitely don't need to do a

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podcast. So maybe that was the closest you could get on that line item.

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But yeah, I guess so.

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They're really close to each other.

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They like hate each other.

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Wait, wait, wait. Should we talk about Kraken versus Blockstream now?

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That's on.

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Okay, let's move there.

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That's on the list. Speaking of similar,

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similar companies hating each other.

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Are they hating each other?

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I don't know.

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Give a bit of context. Give a bit of context.

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I don't know which.

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Well, there was a long, basically Adam Back, CEO of Blockstream,

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is trying to convince Liquid, excuse me, Kraken to implement their Liquid,

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um, whatever you want to call it.

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Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, should I call it sidechain?

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And then I was like, I was actually going to say the other thing, their

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custodial multi-sig wallet. And I was like, well, I can't say that.

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And then I was like, should I just say sidechain?

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And then I didn't know what to do.

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Question. Honest question.

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You don't feel it's a sidechain?

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No, it clearly is not.

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And Greg Maxwell doesn't feel that way either.

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So that ought to be.

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No, fuck Maxwell. Fuck Maxwell.

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But why don't you emphasize a bit why it's not a sidechain?

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It's, it was always crystal clear.

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Well, first of all, the original, the original concept,

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and then we can talk about definition or whatever this or that.

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The sidechain idea arose as a solution to the problem of altcoins that weren't

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total scams. There was an era of altcoins that were just like the,

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like copy and paste Litecoin, Federalcoin that were just,

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they were just copy paste. And it was just clear to every Dogecoin,

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clear to everyone that they were just frivolities and they weren't,

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they weren't real. They were just a nothing that you could ignore.

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But then it started to be the case, 2013, 2014,

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people started to have like some crazy ideas.

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One early on was what was Zerocoin, which now became Zcash.

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But that was also when BitShares and Ethereum were sort of starting.

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I have a lot of criticism towards that also because, but anyway, sorry.

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But I'm just saying, this is the problem of altcoins. Like, you know,

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maybe Bitcoin's consensus rules aren't the best for everyone.

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Some people might plausibly want different ones.

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They might want Gasp, an altcoin.

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And the block size debate was also heating up. So there was this,

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this question, what do we do about altcoins?

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And the answer was the sidechain. We'll have an altcoin,

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but there won't be any coins there.

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Who came up with the,

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who can you identify that wrote first about sidechains and use those words?

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This is an interesting question. I know that there was a,

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there was a question of, there was first the question of the one way peg.

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This was how it was originally framed.

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I think this was like December, 2013. I don't have any idea.

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Honestly, there was a loop junior IRC chat.

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And I don't know if I want to reveal this so that people will swarm the IRC or

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try to find that it was, it was logged at one point.

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And I mean, if it's public, why not?

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I think it was Bitcoin wizards, December, 2013.

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And then it was all framed in terms of the one way peg or the two way peg.

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And someone said we could do the two way peg bath with SPV mod.

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Can you explain something?

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That is one second. Can you explain to him very high level?

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What the one peg and the two baby, just super, super high level.

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Because the one peg was this idea.

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You have two pieces of software. The second piece could be watching Bitcoin,

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Bitcoin core, and you could do something in Bitcoin core to destroy your coins.

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Counterparty actually did this.

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You destroy the coins and then that software will credit you the same number of

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coins they have. And then you can move them in one,

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but that only works in one direction.

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So the big thing was, could you do something over there?

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Different consensus rules, different owners,

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coins moving around and have new people say,

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I want to redeem these coins one for one back on layer one.

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That's like the big thing. So then they exchange at par forever.

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Okay. Good. You explained the peg thing now getting back.

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So the first time you could think about this being mentioned was an IRC channel.

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Now, the original question that I asked you was,

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what's the definition of a sidechain?

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Did you actually ask me that?

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I did. And then you went on to run. Anyway, let's get back to it. That's fine.

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That was still relevant context.

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So what's a sidechain and why are we not calling liquid a sidechain?

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I have no answer, but the original sidechain concept was this answer with altcoin.

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So it was originally a sidechain was a blank altcoin that you could send Bitcoin

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to and receive it back from.

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So the alt sidechain was supposed to be like an altcoin simulator.

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It was this technology.

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When you say that,

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when you say that, that's a bit confusing because when you say an altcoin,

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I feel like that's a different blockchain altogether,

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but a sidechain is not necessarily that. Well, it kind of is,

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but I think it would be its own blockchain in almost all cases.

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So then the side,

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so when you say side then is just because it has a pipe between it by some way

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that they will be running along alongside each other.

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I don't know why that word fell into it at all. Okay. So anyway,

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let's get back on track right now. So, uh, by, uh, I guess,

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so it was clear or it was the reason why I was thinking,

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Oh, I thought you were going to say is because, uh, in, in liquid,

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you can't really get in and out without any permission. Right.

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So it's not like completely trustless, I guess.

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So I thought that's what you're going to say.

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And that's why you don't want to consider it a sidechain or something like that.

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And it's just, that's not why I don't consider it a sidechain at all. Okay.

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But it is custodial and that makes it sort of meaningless because everything in

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Bitcoin that's custodial is like a shadow version of what it should be.

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I don't know. Okay. Let's get back to the tweet right now.

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So Adam Bag, the CEO of Blockstream, who has a sidechain.

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Yeah, they wait, they worked on this thing called liquid.

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It was always supposed to be like a temporary slap together thing.

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It's like if you were going to go to the moon and you decided to test it

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underwater, the space shuttle underwater first on earth,

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which like they did, they trained the astronauts in like,

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in like the G force or simulator room or whatever, you know,

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that the giant centrifuge and then the giant swimming pool or something.

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So, and then this is like, if instead of going to the moon,

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they just stayed in the swimming pool and said, okay,

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now we are an actual space company and this is our spaceship.

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So that's why I think it's just ridiculous because it was always supposed to be

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like a slap together cosmetic thing that would only appear to be

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a sidechain. And then they got, they really derailed completely.

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And they started saying, Oh, this can replace ICOs.

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This can replace Ethereum's can do everything.

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And this is full blown,

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like completely derailed from what it was originally supposed to be,

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which was just liquid was just supposed to be this slap together thing that had

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all the, all the custodians would just be exchanges.

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So instead of just trusting one exchange with your coins, you would now trust,

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you know, M of N. And so the trust model wouldn't be that different.

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You were only going to move the coins from one exchange to another.

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Now it's like turned into this like full blown thing that is still fully

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custodial. The custodians are still anonymous. We don't know who they are.

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As far as we know,

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it's just 15 private keys generated by Greg Maxwell's laptop

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that he says belong to other people. There's no,

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none of this is auditable or transparent or a lot of it,

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some of it isn't even open source. So the whole thing is like a giant farce.

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Anyway, what about the tweet? What does it, what does it have to do with the

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fucking tweets? So the tweet is so funny.

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It's an awful company. Say what he fucking did.

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You have to say what has happened in the tweet.

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No, but he was basically begging, you know, he's arguing strenuously.

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So Adam Beck, the cypherpunk is going Kraken, please, please, please,

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please can take my integrated liquid. Is that what he was doing?

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Do you really think that that's, you've never heard Adam Beck speak before?

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You think that's the accent? He has like a, he has like a British accent.

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I know. I know. I've heard him. I've heard him.

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I talked with him once at a conference, like for 10 minutes or something.

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So I used to be,

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I'm so sorry that he did that because I used to be able to do,

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I was doing impressions of people and I have a decent Adam Beck, but I can't,

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I can't do it now. I have to concentrate.

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Anyway, anyway, getting back on track, getting back on track.

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So he's begging them and what's happening. So he's begging these guys.

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It's just, it's funny cause they're like, well, you know, it's not really a big
deal.

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It's not really, it's not really a priority for them.

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He's, and Adam was framing it as being really good for Bitcoin.

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But the really funny part of the whole exchange is that eventually Pierre

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Rochard, what does he say? Should we just read it? I don't, I don't,

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we don't have it.

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I like, I like at some point something. Take care of your own business.

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He says that.

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Well, he says that, which is, yeah, that, that might be the best actual part,

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but he says something like you're in a,

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your enterprise sales strategy is as innovative as the products

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you're selling or something. But let's look it up.

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So we can just read it.

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Anyway, you know what, regarding your earlier criticism about the lighting,

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sorry about liquid derailing. I don't think that's something bad.

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I think that's them being smart and being able to transform that in a product

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that caught on and people are using.

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And I don't think you need to have this purist view of what things should be

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when you build them.

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See, that's the point is it's not, no, no. What? How can you even say that?

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This point is not to have a purist view.

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The point is the original problem is unsolved.

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So they're not actually on the moon. They're just a stupid swimming pool.

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I need to get to the moon. I need to get there.

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Then you, why don't you get to the moon?

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I am doing it. That's why I'm doing the drive to me.

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So I don't know why I was even asked,

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but I just think it's stupid that all these people actually think that this is a

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space exploration company and they, they just explicitly gave up on that.

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I know it was the same thing we talked about last time with a lightning.

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Is this the tweet is your enterprise sales strategy is as innovative as the

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technology you're selling.

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Mic drop.

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Yeah. Mic drop. Yeah, basically.

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And then we have all kinds of other stuff and people are saying that, you know,

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um, that this is,

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this technology is good for Bitcoin and good for Bitcoin errors.

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Then an Adam back really then people on, um,

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the large blocker world got, got ahold of something. He said,

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at some point he said something like, um,

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we're going to need this to offload transactions because fees might go up soon.

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And then all the, you know, all the, the Bitcoin cash people, et cetera,

234
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:53,520
like, Oh, he cares about fees now.

235
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,440
Well, you know, I want to, I want to address something.

236
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,080
You, you have a bit more tangents chandins with the big block world than I do.

237
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,720
I just want to put that out there. I don't want you that, that hated.

238
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,040
I'm okay with shitting on people, but I don't want to be like, you know,

239
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:12,720
all right. The way the unacceptable thing is to talk about them at all.

240
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,080
You have to pretend they don't exist.

241
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,760
It's just that you give them too much merit. Like, like even like how you quoted

242
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,960
them. Like I would never quote someone on the street.

243
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,160
That's like a bomb and doing heroin. Right. It's like, I wouldn't even quote him,

244
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,640
but, but you're quoting them. So you're giving them importance.

245
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,200
Just want to, I just want to address that.

246
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,280
Well, we're just quoting, we're just quoting Pierre Richard and Adam Beck.

247
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,200
Yeah. But you say the big block world, I'm just, you're,

248
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,080
I'm just trying to say you're making them legitimate. All right.

249
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,320
I'm just trying to put it out there.

250
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,440
I don't understand why there,

251
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,320
I think the hatred of the large blockers is more than 50%.

252
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:50,880
Um,

253
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,040
like a vicious scapegoating and bigotry.

254
00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,840
They don't really understand what they're saying when they say that. And in fact,

255
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,920
you were criticizing Roger Ver last time.

256
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,240
Everyone who criticizes Roger Ver I think is just new.

257
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,880
That's what I think because there was no very brief time ago,

258
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,040
2015 everyone was friends with each other,

259
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,360
including most people being friends with Roger Ver.

260
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,840
And so when then it's only this new thing started about like, Oh, everyone,

261
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,120
these people are horrible people and you should never talk about them.

262
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,440
And so when people jump right into that and they say, Oh yeah,

263
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,360
XYZ, these people are fake people or we shouldn't talk about the large

264
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,280
blockers or the big block world. I just think that person is new.

265
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,800
That's all I think it may have. And I don't say it in a disrespectful way.

266
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,080
I just think this person just doesn't know any better because they got here in

267
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:45,920
2017.

268
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,480
Well, let me tell you why that's not actually completely true.

269
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,400
And I've been here way before 2017.

270
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,760
I'm just letting you know that that's like what I hear.

271
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,920
Okay. Let me, let me, let me articulate it very clearly. All right.

272
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,120
The problem with Roger Ver, which again,

273
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,320
I'm not saying like he didn't do any good things or something like that,

274
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,560
is that there are certain things that he's super disingenuous about. Now he,

275
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,120
there's some things I'm sure he's just ignoring about as anyone is about certain

276
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,400
things, but there's certain things which is so obvious and he's blatantly lying

277
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,040
about. Right. And that's, that's why people hate him.

278
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,920
Now I don't think he should be hated for everything.

279
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,400
I don't think he's an awful human being. I don't fuck, you know,

280
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,320
I didn't meet the guy. I don't want to like put down whatever he did.

281
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,520
I'm really sure he has the most honest intentions. I'm sorry.

282
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,160
I'm sure he has some honest intentions,

283
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,120
but some of his intentions are just bad.

284
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,040
Like they're just like the thing that he robs is like, yeah, they're like that.

285
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:40,160
And it's obvious.

286
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,080
I mean,

287
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,840
we can just go on his Twitter and see all the things that he's lying about.

288
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,160
Like he's blatantly lying, but that's why people started hating him.

289
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:50,320
And yes,

290
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,520
the one big lie is the attempt to frame Bitcoin cash as the real Bitcoin,

291
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,200
which he takes on, but that takes on such a desperate character. So,

292
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,040
so rapidly that I don't, I don't even see it as that menacing.

293
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,120
No, it's not about being menacing.

294
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,880
It's not like the effects are very bad because he's doing it very,

295
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,760
he's not very tactful. He's not doing it very well.

296
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,480
But the problem that I'm trying to say,

297
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,960
what is the, what is the, what are, what are like lies?

298
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,280
Everything regarding that and Ryan,

299
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,960
like how he started lying and the way he uses the name and always trying to make

300
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:25,840
it, it's like, you know,

301
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,360
like when there's someone on the street stopping and he's like trying to put a

302
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,120
breast on your hand, so you'll leave with it. And it's like, why are you doing that?

303
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,840
Like, I am just pissed off if you do that. I don't like disingenuous people.

304
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,040
So if he would be more like,

305
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,320
I don't like Charlie Lee also and what the fuck he's doing with his toy fucking

306
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,880
project. Right. But at least he's not like trying to,

307
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,560
he's disingenuous in other ways, but he's not about it.

308
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,040
That's why I don't like Roger.

309
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,800
And that's why I think that's a big thing that he's disingenuous about.

310
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,080
And he's being called out about it and he's acting really weird.

311
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,840
And that's why, I mean, I would think there'd be a lot of,

312
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,120
you would think that he would want to say something like,

313
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,880
especially at this point, you want to say something like, well, you know,

314
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,680
to people you'd want to say, well, look right now, this isn't,

315
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,160
this is considered a big underdog project.

316
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,760
And this is considered like a fringe position, but, you know,

317
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,280
talking about BCH and it's like,

318
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,200
you would think like that would be like the sell. Like, but if you join now,

319
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,360
you can get in on the ground floor really cheap,

320
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:30,120
but to something that may have a great destiny or something. But yeah,

321
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,800
I said, he's just kind of repressed to say that this one is the real Bitcoin,

322
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,240
which is a very.

323
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,520
There's no argument there. There's no technical argument.

324
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,160
There's just a lot of imbecility. And like, literally I could probably,

325
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,560
if I would take charge of that project,

326
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,840
I could make better engineering decisions on it. And I'm a fucking imbecile.

327
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,280
Well, yeah. And I can't, I can't stand the engineering.

328
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,480
I can't stand the decisions made and with respect to Bitcoin Cash,

329
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,360
the decision to like launch it in August. And then whilst I go to X,

330
00:17:58,360 --> 00:17:59,200
so this,

331
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,840
that seems like just asking for failure of the hard fork

332
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,880
transition and then just like randomly moving to it in November.

333
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,360
And then why are there so many? The last time I checked,

334
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,240
there were over five and a half thousand. This was a long time ago.

335
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,160
There were over like five and a half thousand commits,

336
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,520
like different between Bitcoin ABC and Bitcoin Core.

337
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,200
And I was just like, why this should be like two, you know,

338
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,600
it should just be this exact same code with like a little patch that,

339
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,560
that just patches the block size and SIGOPs and the hard fork

340
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,320
gate. And that then, then they would never have been reliant

341
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,000
on Omri or any of these other people that would have skipped all kinds of

342
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,120
problems. So they made all kinds of absurd mistakes.

343
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,400
Yeah. Because that's a, that's a fucking joke of a fucking project.

344
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:51,800
That is it's even worse than you think.

345
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,520
They didn't take the problem of hard forks seriously enough.

346
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,320
I don't think they understand what the fuck they're doing. I think, by the way,

347
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,680
there's like quite a big community of Bitcoin Cash in London,

348
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,560
which I've been to some of those meetups. These people are clueless, son,

349
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,960
clueless. They don't know how to, they don't know how to use a fucking computer.

350
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,080
They're fucking imbeciles. Like, look, and you know what? I don't care.

351
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,440
What do you think? That's the fucking truth.

352
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,640
So that's why every time I hear that, I really feel the need to, you know,

353
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,560
to like just destroy it with a finger because that's what it is.

354
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,640
That's healthy. I mean, I just say to everyone who's listening,

355
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,120
I think it is fun. I've been to all kinds of,

356
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,200
you would never even believe it at all kinds of different,

357
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,960
especially when I was in San Francisco, I'd go to all kinds of different meetups,

358
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,000
like Bitcoin SV meetups and all these other meetups.

359
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:40,360
I'm not surprised.

360
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,560
Yeah. It's really something.

361
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:47,120
And if most of the time you do leave thinking like you go and you're kind of

362
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,640
like, this seems like a terrible idea, but let me just see what they have to say.

363
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:52,880
And you, you know,

364
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,680
like you almost always leave thinking like those are the craziest fucking people

365
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,480
in the universe and they are doomed.

366
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,240
I mean, you know,

367
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,520
like there's these people who believe in the law of attraction in some weird

368
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:04,840
ways. You know what I'm trying to say?

369
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,320
I've heard of it. Yes.

370
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:07,440
Yeah. And there's like a group,

371
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,840
I've happened to stumble upon groups of people like this.

372
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,240
And the thing is like the weird part about it is because it kind of gives them

373
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,800
some purpose and you've kind of like pushed them in that direction.

374
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,320
So that's why they feel that that's working,

375
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,480
but it's not like thinking about stuff works. It's doing stuff works. Right.

376
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,120
Anyway. But the point is like, they, they, they, they,

377
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,440
they live in this weird world and they have this biases and they're just so

378
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,160
detached from reality. And it's like, what can you do with these people?

379
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,560
Like you can't talk about anything with them.

380
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,840
They're always going to shift it to this whole thing they have here. Right.

381
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,880
And that's what happens with this Bitcoin cash people. They're like,

382
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:40,920
they're very,

383
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:46,240
they, I think it's very factual to say that the average IQ there is below a

384
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,360
hundred. Like I'm serious.

385
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,680
Oh, come on. That's not true.

386
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,320
All the big corners are already like way onto the extreme.

387
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,680
And then there's all this other stuff. You have any idea like how low this,

388
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,840
I think once you get to 70,

389
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,360
the you'd be shocked at the actual range.

390
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,480
They have like examples of like the vocabulary of someone who would score like

391
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,480
70 or something.

392
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,040
They like had trouble using the word summer in two different sentences or

393
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:11,880
something.

394
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,720
Exactly. So you're proving my point. It's underneath. It's below a hundred.

395
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,040
The people that don't fucking shit. Anyway, fuck the Bitcoin cash people.

396
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,840
I don't, I don't even know.

397
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:21,760
They're there the way.

398
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,480
Are there any bullet points that we may have to purge if you don't remember?

399
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,920
This was the one with the stupid liquid integration.

400
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,400
I quote it from somewhere on the Twitter.

401
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,200
Oh yes. Yeah.

402
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,400
You have really great phrases in the bullet points there.

403
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,160
I didn't show how accurate they are, but trying to, you're trying to say,

404
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,200
I added that bullet point. That's what I'm trying to say right now.

405
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,520
I don't remember writing these phrases.

406
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,400
I don't think I, I said,

407
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,720
I said, it's a bullet point.

408
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,680
I just don't think I'm the one who has a chip on his shoulders when he comes to

409
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,600
fucking sidechains, just putting it out there. Okay.

410
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,920
And not that there's anyone here in this conversation having that.

411
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:04,560
So I don't know who wrote it.

412
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,000
Um, well I know I definitely said add this to the list.

413
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:10,960
Yeah.

414
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,560
Anyway, anyway, did I like pitch the battle on the stupid liquid integration?

415
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,800
Did I actually write that? And I saw it was black. I'm drunk.

416
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,960
I don't know. It doesn't seem like a phrase I would use.

417
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,560
I don't know. Where were you?

418
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,120
If I would have wrote that and I want it to be disrespectful,

419
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,360
I would have done it like way more. Like I would have been stupid.

420
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:31,200
I would have been more. So that's how I know it's not me. Anyway. So, um,

421
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:32,280
where were you drunk?

422
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,840
Well, I know I've been so many times this week. We had Thanksgiving.

423
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,760
So what did you like? Where did you just start? Yeah. Oh yeah.

424
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,480
So you went home.

425
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,040
No, I have a other family that lived here in the great state of Florida when I

426
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:47,880
was with them.

427
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520
Oh, I see. I see. So what do you guys do a little closer?

428
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,360
Well, do you know how much you know about Thanksgiving?

429
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,000
I know you guys killed some people and it wasn't nice and they're celebrating

430
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:58,840
like assholes.

431
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,520
Yes. Yes.

432
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,000
Theoretically it's a celebration of friendship between native Americans and

433
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,000
pilgrims who are arriving from England because they had a

434
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,720
feast together because native Americans taught us how to grow

435
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,240
corn or something. I don't really know what the actual, um,

436
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,920
you know, how much of that is true. Probably none of it, but, um,

437
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:25,840
yeah. So you're supposed to,

438
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,520
on Thanksgiving it's considered extremely improper to do any work

439
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,360
on Thanksgiving.

440
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,600
Even the most workaholic people should not work.

441
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,640
And then you go and visit your family,

442
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,480
including people that you don't see very often. So often it's very stressful.

443
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,040
And everyone tries very hard not to talk about politics and mostly does a good

444
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,520
job because that is not polite to talk about.

445
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,120
And then everyone in the, Oh, the big deal with Thanksgiving though,

446
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,280
is that the hosts and especially women, you know,

447
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,800
this is just, just, just saying what it is, um,

448
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,680
that they're supposed to like spend like the whole day,

449
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,440
like cooking all kinds of things, especially,

450
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,800
especially Turkey and other things.

451
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,680
There are other things.

452
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,080
That sounds awful what you're describing there. Look, I had,

453
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,000
I had his girlfriend at some point, right? And she's telling me,

454
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,680
we have to go and hang out with my family. And then, and I'm like, okay, sure.

455
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,560
I didn't mind that by the way.

456
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,920
I was getting sometimes really awfully weird with her friends, but she's like,

457
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,120
but there's this aunt that I don't want to see, but we have to go. So I'm like,

458
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,600
why the fuck are we going? If you don't want to see the end,

459
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,880
because you have to,

460
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,600
and we got in a big fight because then what bothered me was that she wanted to

461
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,760
do something she doesn't want.

462
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:43,200
Well, you know, I can unpack that for you a little bit because it's like

463
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,400
insurance, you know, you pay the premiums,

464
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,840
you don't want to pay the insurance premiums. You'd rather just have money.

465
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,280
But you know, your family is there for you. If something bad happens and,

466
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,960
you know, we'll all be, not everyone is the most likable all the time.

467
00:24:59,386 --> 00:25:02,386
And so this is like a thing that is a more stable kind of fitted relationship.

468
00:25:02,386 --> 00:25:03,826
I don't think that's a dynamic that's happening there.

469
00:25:03,826 --> 00:25:07,186
I think there are a lot of people who have like very specific family members who
they

470
00:25:07,186 --> 00:25:10,106
are close with. And with these ones, they always pick the time.

471
00:25:10,346 --> 00:25:15,186
I think what's happening is people don't want to be seen as not being okay with some

472
00:25:15,186 --> 00:25:16,866
parts of their families, which everyone is.

473
00:25:16,906 --> 00:25:17,906
No one likes all the members.

474
00:25:18,146 --> 00:25:24,186
So what, it's not a hedge for that, it's just a fear of being seen as not being okay

475
00:25:24,186 --> 00:25:27,306
for that. It's just a fear of being seen as something else.

476
00:25:27,586 --> 00:25:29,426
And it's a fear of confronting things you don't like.

477
00:25:29,426 --> 00:25:31,986
I think that's why it's different.

478
00:25:32,026 --> 00:25:35,106
I think it's like, if you are going to see, you know, you're going to see them every

479
00:25:35,106 --> 00:25:41,906
year. This is like an incentive for you to be friendlier to them and like make peace

480
00:25:41,906 --> 00:25:42,386
with them.

481
00:25:42,746 --> 00:25:43,666
That doesn't make sense to me.

482
00:25:43,666 --> 00:25:47,106
It's very simple. Like the people who I want to see, I see them, like if I wanted

483
00:25:47,506 --> 00:25:48,506
to see someone every day, I would make an effort to see them.

484
00:25:48,506 --> 00:25:56,386
Repeated interactions help you to know that you will be interacting with them.

485
00:25:56,586 --> 00:25:58,346
Again, it doesn't make sense to me.

486
00:25:58,546 --> 00:26:01,266
What makes sense to me is like the people who you want to spend time with, you
already

487
00:26:01,266 --> 00:26:05,346
spend time with, right? I don't like, again, this fakeness thing and I don't, I
don't

488
00:26:05,346 --> 00:26:06,346
understand why people do these things.

489
00:26:06,346 --> 00:26:06,866
It just blows my mind.

490
00:26:06,866 --> 00:26:09,146
Yeah, but it's only, it's not, you know, it's only once a year.

491
00:26:09,146 --> 00:26:13,266
It's only just a little dose because sometimes people need, they need to get like
back on

492
00:26:13,266 --> 00:26:16,226
their feet. They have, maybe if someone has no friends, how do you make your first

493
00:26:16,266 --> 00:26:20,346
friend? You know, you got to start with your family and like move on and move it up.

494
00:26:21,386 --> 00:26:24,066
I'm not, I'm not, that's why I say it's like insurance.

495
00:26:25,186 --> 00:26:27,546
Yeah. I mean, look, family has a lot of merit.

496
00:26:27,786 --> 00:26:30,626
All right. And you should go, go and hang out with your family.

497
00:26:30,626 --> 00:26:34,186
What I'm trying to say is that if you don't like someone on this, like if there's

498
00:26:34,186 --> 00:26:37,706
someone on the street that jerks off while you walk by, you're not going to forcibly

499
00:26:37,706 --> 00:26:38,906
make friends with him because you have to.

500
00:26:38,906 --> 00:26:41,266
It's like a person jerks off on the street, that's awful, right?

501
00:26:41,586 --> 00:26:44,866
So why the fuck do you do this with other people just because they share more DNA

502
00:26:44,866 --> 00:26:46,266
with you? That's, that's very stupid.

503
00:26:46,266 --> 00:26:47,266
You know what I'm trying to say?

504
00:26:47,386 --> 00:26:52,306
No, because it's, um, it's, uh, it closes the loop.

505
00:26:52,306 --> 00:26:57,146
Like if you come from DNA that wants to do that, then you'll want to do it yourself.

506
00:26:57,146 --> 00:27:00,546
You'll benefit from it and you'll also want to feel compelled to do it.

507
00:27:01,506 --> 00:27:03,146
So I think that's, that's theoretical.

508
00:27:03,146 --> 00:27:07,306
I think like, again, I think a lot of these family gatherings, a lot of the time
they're

509
00:27:07,306 --> 00:27:09,586
just to be there. They're not like organic.

510
00:27:09,586 --> 00:27:11,106
They're not like everyone needs to be there.

511
00:27:11,386 --> 00:27:16,466
And I think overall, I think like it's, a lot of people do find it to be a chore and

512
00:27:16,466 --> 00:27:20,426
there's a complicated thing that some people complain about a lot, you know,

513
00:27:20,426 --> 00:27:22,146
comedians, comedians complain about it.

514
00:27:23,066 --> 00:27:25,706
Um, they're always onto something, right?

515
00:27:27,146 --> 00:27:31,466
But, um, I think it's also like, it's good if you have too much of a routine.

516
00:27:33,106 --> 00:27:39,386
Um, shake things up, interact with a different group of people, see how you do, see

517
00:27:39,386 --> 00:27:40,466
what's new with people.

518
00:27:41,386 --> 00:27:42,066
Um, yeah.

519
00:27:42,066 --> 00:27:45,226
And also people like often take photos, family photos, things at that time.

520
00:27:45,586 --> 00:27:46,306
You can have an excuse.

521
00:27:46,306 --> 00:27:47,066
They do that for Christmas.

522
00:27:47,506 --> 00:27:49,746
My specific thing is their reasoning behind it.

523
00:27:49,746 --> 00:27:53,786
My specific thing is like, if you, there's something in your heart that says, I'm
not

524
00:27:53,786 --> 00:27:55,386
happy to walk through that door right now.

525
00:27:55,386 --> 00:27:55,786
Okay.

526
00:27:56,186 --> 00:28:01,066
Well, sometimes people just kind of, when they walk through the door anyway, it's
kind

527
00:28:01,066 --> 00:28:04,226
of like, maybe they weren't really being honest with themselves about.

528
00:28:04,986 --> 00:28:06,066
I don't think that's what's happening.

529
00:28:06,226 --> 00:28:06,706
Do you think so?

530
00:28:06,706 --> 00:28:09,346
Do you really think some people are like, they dread this so much.

531
00:28:09,346 --> 00:28:11,826
It's like going to the dentist or being tortured or something.

532
00:28:12,866 --> 00:28:14,266
I'm going to do it anyway.

533
00:28:14,866 --> 00:28:18,346
And I think what ends up happening at the end of the day, they fucking hated it
there.

534
00:28:18,506 --> 00:28:21,346
They had some opportunities cost or something and some things they would have

535
00:28:21,346 --> 00:28:21,866
rather done.

536
00:28:22,066 --> 00:28:26,026
And then at the end they tried to like change it and be like, Oh, actually I ended

537
00:28:26,026 --> 00:28:28,106
up having a nice conversation with the uncle.

538
00:28:28,106 --> 00:28:28,386
Why?

539
00:28:28,506 --> 00:28:29,066
No, you didn't.

540
00:28:29,066 --> 00:28:31,026
You're just trying to make yourself feel better.

541
00:28:31,266 --> 00:28:33,986
It's like the same thing when you've got a new pair of shoes and you know, you

542
00:28:33,986 --> 00:28:35,666
shouldn't have bought them, but you can't return them.

543
00:28:35,666 --> 00:28:37,706
So now you're like, Oh, well I was going to start running anyway.

544
00:28:37,706 --> 00:28:37,906
Right.

545
00:28:38,106 --> 00:28:39,826
I think that's what's happening most of the time.

546
00:28:40,426 --> 00:28:40,986
Exactly.

547
00:28:41,426 --> 00:28:43,026
But it's a reverse sour grapes pretty much.

548
00:28:43,346 --> 00:28:45,506
Well, yeah, but it's the same concept.

549
00:28:45,626 --> 00:28:45,906
Yeah.

550
00:28:45,946 --> 00:28:49,106
But, um, the, so that's how I feel about all these things.

551
00:28:49,106 --> 00:28:51,986
And I know this, but a lot of people, maybe, I don't know, maybe my family is

552
00:28:51,986 --> 00:28:52,746
just super great.

553
00:28:52,746 --> 00:28:54,426
I mean, we always just get drunk and have a good time.

554
00:28:55,106 --> 00:28:55,266
Yeah.

555
00:28:55,266 --> 00:28:56,706
I wasn't trying to talk about your family.

556
00:28:56,706 --> 00:28:59,346
And again, I'm not saying like, you've been so, yeah, but you're right though,

557
00:28:59,346 --> 00:29:03,586
that people would tend to lie about how great the Thanksgiving was just out of a

558
00:29:03,586 --> 00:29:05,866
desire not to insult the family also.

559
00:29:05,946 --> 00:29:07,626
So you'll never really know for sure.

560
00:29:08,506 --> 00:29:08,666
Yeah.

561
00:29:08,666 --> 00:29:11,626
I guess if who was having the Thanksgiving, if anyone.

562
00:29:12,466 --> 00:29:13,186
Well, there you go.

563
00:29:13,226 --> 00:29:15,986
You know, and I'm not trying to say like, there are, maybe there are moments

564
00:29:15,986 --> 00:29:17,066
there that are good or something.

565
00:29:17,066 --> 00:29:18,266
I'm not trying to put that down.

566
00:29:18,266 --> 00:29:18,986
I'm sure they are.

567
00:29:19,146 --> 00:29:20,426
It's like just people, right.

568
00:29:20,506 --> 00:29:21,226
We're together.

569
00:29:21,226 --> 00:29:23,666
It's, it's nice to be around with people most of the time.

570
00:29:23,946 --> 00:29:28,346
Uh, but, um, you know, I, I think there's a lot of disingenuous going on.

571
00:29:28,866 --> 00:29:33,226
And I think that, I think it is just this weird facade of like, the reason we all

572
00:29:33,226 --> 00:29:35,906
are together here is because we're supposed to be really honest with each

573
00:29:35,906 --> 00:29:37,106
other and care about each other.

574
00:29:37,306 --> 00:29:39,866
But somehow there's this facade we have to put on.

575
00:29:40,106 --> 00:29:41,746
It's so contradictory.

576
00:29:41,746 --> 00:29:43,546
Like it just boggles my brain, you know?

577
00:29:43,986 --> 00:29:45,906
Well, you know, sometimes people could do things.

578
00:29:45,906 --> 00:29:48,586
We were talking, I was talking about, we were talking about last time about

579
00:29:48,826 --> 00:29:52,866
culture, just making you do things and maybe not in your best interest, but

580
00:29:52,866 --> 00:29:56,186
maybe being in your best interest, you were saying like, Oh, and I was agreeing.

581
00:29:57,266 --> 00:29:58,626
You don't know these traditions.

582
00:29:59,106 --> 00:30:01,626
Maybe they have some really important thing and life would be much

583
00:30:01,626 --> 00:30:03,746
worse if you took them out.

584
00:30:04,346 --> 00:30:05,186
So I don't know.

585
00:30:06,026 --> 00:30:06,226
Yeah.

586
00:30:06,226 --> 00:30:08,066
So this is a Thanksgiving, like tradition.

587
00:30:08,066 --> 00:30:10,506
So it's like, I'm just, this is like, it is what it is.

588
00:30:10,586 --> 00:30:12,706
It's, it's relatively harmless.

589
00:30:13,146 --> 00:30:14,546
It is only once a year, so.

590
00:30:15,186 --> 00:30:15,706
Well, that's the thing.

591
00:30:15,706 --> 00:30:16,066
I don't know.

592
00:30:16,066 --> 00:30:19,906
I, I guess the disagreement is like, I think it's more harmful and it makes you

593
00:30:19,906 --> 00:30:23,626
feel, I don't know, maybe you just have this bad experience or something.

594
00:30:23,626 --> 00:30:24,026
I don't know.

595
00:30:24,466 --> 00:30:28,146
I don't think I've had bad experiences because I, uh, I, first of all, I've

596
00:30:28,146 --> 00:30:31,106
never been to Thanksgiving dinner because I was never in the U S when this was

597
00:30:31,146 --> 00:30:31,626
happening.

598
00:30:32,186 --> 00:30:37,266
Um, but I, I, I just saw a lot of people who, you know, I think the worst thing

599
00:30:37,266 --> 00:30:40,426
you can do for yourself as a human being is bottle things up inside.

600
00:30:40,746 --> 00:30:42,346
I think that's the worst thing, the worst.

601
00:30:43,106 --> 00:30:47,466
And I think every little tiny thing I, as far as I'm concerned, but in every

602
00:30:47,466 --> 00:30:50,306
little tiny thing you bottle up in your site, even if you're, you didn't like

603
00:30:50,306 --> 00:30:54,266
your sucks today, even if you didn't like how your girlfriend looked at you, even

604
00:30:54,266 --> 00:30:57,386
if you didn't like, like all these things, I think they're going to end up like,

605
00:30:57,386 --> 00:30:58,946
like, like fucking you over somehow.

606
00:30:59,106 --> 00:30:59,386
Right.

607
00:30:59,426 --> 00:31:00,026
And you don't see.

608
00:31:00,586 --> 00:31:05,066
And I think every little, whenever there's an instance, you have to bottle up things

609
00:31:05,066 --> 00:31:07,466
and you can't, like, if you, if you have to go somewhere, you can't fart.

610
00:31:07,706 --> 00:31:07,986
Right.

611
00:31:08,986 --> 00:31:12,186
Metaphorically, that's going to hurt you really bad if you do that a lot.

612
00:31:12,426 --> 00:31:15,706
And you, and, and I, well, it's a metaphor.

613
00:31:15,706 --> 00:31:15,986
I don't know.

614
00:31:16,146 --> 00:31:16,586
So I think

615
00:31:20,746 --> 00:31:21,146
right.

616
00:31:21,426 --> 00:31:25,906
Anyway, the point is that I think when there's an environment where you can't,

617
00:31:25,946 --> 00:31:29,226
where you have to keep things in, I think that's the worst thing I could do for

618
00:31:29,266 --> 00:31:31,706
you as an individual and as you are a human being.

619
00:31:31,706 --> 00:31:31,986
Right.

620
00:31:32,386 --> 00:31:35,026
And I'm not saying like all family gatherings are like that.

621
00:31:35,146 --> 00:31:36,226
I don't think all families are like that.

622
00:31:36,226 --> 00:31:39,586
I'm sure enough, but it really feels like this holiday type things.

623
00:31:39,586 --> 00:31:41,226
They really have a good premise for that.

624
00:31:41,426 --> 00:31:43,946
And I'm just saying like, why would you, why do you do it?

625
00:31:43,946 --> 00:31:44,586
If you don't like it?

626
00:31:44,586 --> 00:31:46,066
That was my whole point here, you know?

627
00:31:48,066 --> 00:31:48,386
All right.

628
00:31:48,386 --> 00:31:48,866
Fair enough.

629
00:31:49,866 --> 00:31:52,146
I mean, again, I said, sometimes you don't know what you really like.

630
00:31:52,146 --> 00:31:53,866
It is completely subconscious.

631
00:31:54,026 --> 00:31:55,946
So you may actually like it.

632
00:31:55,986 --> 00:31:58,266
You may like it, but you may like pretending not to like it.

633
00:31:58,826 --> 00:32:00,066
Or it may have some other thing.

634
00:32:00,066 --> 00:32:00,466
I don't know.

635
00:32:00,826 --> 00:32:01,186
Who knows?

636
00:32:01,266 --> 00:32:01,586
Okay.

637
00:32:01,906 --> 00:32:02,226
Great.

638
00:32:03,306 --> 00:32:05,946
The point is everyone is very thankful.

639
00:32:09,706 --> 00:32:10,626
Especially the Grinch.

640
00:32:11,386 --> 00:32:12,386
I'm the Thanksgiving Grinch.

641
00:32:12,386 --> 00:32:14,106
Yeah, you are the Thanksgiving Grinch.

642
00:32:14,426 --> 00:32:15,626
Oh, the episode title?

643
00:32:15,626 --> 00:32:16,106
I don't know.

644
00:32:20,386 --> 00:32:20,666
Yeah.

645
00:32:20,666 --> 00:32:22,826
A lot of these bullet points are obviously by you.

646
00:32:23,906 --> 00:32:26,386
Non-incentivized, want to help Bitcoin ecosystem thing.

647
00:32:27,386 --> 00:32:28,146
We did that one.

648
00:32:29,626 --> 00:32:30,866
What number is that one again?

649
00:32:32,386 --> 00:32:32,866
Four.

650
00:32:34,426 --> 00:32:36,186
Yeah, we already talked about that one.

651
00:32:36,186 --> 00:32:38,186
I was just saying, I'm writing.

652
00:32:38,226 --> 00:32:38,586
Okay.

653
00:32:39,186 --> 00:32:42,666
I'm going to do one about the funny explanations.

654
00:32:44,186 --> 00:32:45,106
What number is that again?

655
00:32:45,106 --> 00:32:46,426
Teaching Bitcoin number six.

656
00:32:46,786 --> 00:32:47,186
Okay.

657
00:32:48,186 --> 00:32:48,946
Do you want to do that?

658
00:32:49,306 --> 00:32:52,266
So I really noticed there's like this trend right now.

659
00:32:52,466 --> 00:32:55,626
There's a few things in Bitcoin that gets your dicks up, right?

660
00:32:55,626 --> 00:32:56,666
Metaphorically, of course.

661
00:32:57,186 --> 00:32:57,386
Yeah.

662
00:32:57,386 --> 00:32:58,306
The thing that gets your dicks up.

663
00:32:58,306 --> 00:33:02,106
The culture rewards certain things that are quite something.

664
00:33:02,426 --> 00:33:02,666
Yeah.

665
00:33:02,666 --> 00:33:06,826
And the one of them is like, you have to show that you want to teach people,

666
00:33:06,826 --> 00:33:07,066
right?

667
00:33:07,226 --> 00:33:08,466
Everyone is a fucking teacher.

668
00:33:08,466 --> 00:33:08,946
That's the thing.

669
00:33:09,106 --> 00:33:10,066
Everyone is a teacher.

670
00:33:10,066 --> 00:33:10,706
Everyone here is a teacher.

671
00:33:10,706 --> 00:33:11,106
That's fine.

672
00:33:11,106 --> 00:33:14,506
You know, so I don't know, but there is something about this that is funny.

673
00:33:14,546 --> 00:33:15,426
I don't know what it is.

674
00:33:15,906 --> 00:33:16,866
Well, the thing is.

675
00:33:16,866 --> 00:33:20,826
I think this one specifically is funny in a way that some of the other ones aren't.

676
00:33:21,586 --> 00:33:24,666
So there's a Twitter account that's called Twitter.

677
00:33:24,666 --> 00:33:27,386
There's a Twitter account that's called TeachMeBitcoin's son.

678
00:33:27,386 --> 00:33:27,746
Right.

679
00:33:27,746 --> 00:33:29,226
And that's already pretty funny.

680
00:33:29,266 --> 00:33:30,746
And there's between.

681
00:33:30,786 --> 00:33:31,906
But some of them are okay.

682
00:33:32,186 --> 00:33:32,426
Yeah.

683
00:33:32,426 --> 00:33:32,986
Let me read it out.

684
00:33:32,986 --> 00:33:33,426
Let me read it.

685
00:33:33,586 --> 00:33:33,946
Sure.

686
00:33:34,386 --> 00:33:36,466
So this is a specific one we're talking about.

687
00:33:36,666 --> 00:33:39,266
Son, what is a native cigarette address?

688
00:33:40,786 --> 00:33:44,426
And the address is not spelled the way it is in America.

689
00:33:44,786 --> 00:33:46,226
Anyway, let's forget about that.

690
00:33:46,226 --> 00:33:46,386
Right.

691
00:33:46,746 --> 00:33:47,906
And then he goes like, hi, dad.

692
00:33:48,146 --> 00:33:53,986
Native cig with also known as bitch 32 is the latest tipping address format.

693
00:33:54,346 --> 00:33:55,946
They started with BC one.

694
00:33:56,506 --> 00:33:57,666
What is that good for?

695
00:33:57,906 --> 00:34:01,626
It's good for faster transaction speed, better scalability, and even

696
00:34:01,626 --> 00:34:02,786
lower fees per transaction.

697
00:34:02,826 --> 00:34:07,746
Oh, in that case, and BC one addresses like address that, that, that.

698
00:34:08,106 --> 00:34:10,906
So now I'm just, I'm just thinking here, if you have someone who doesn't know how

699
00:34:10,906 --> 00:34:12,546
to fucking spell address, right.

700
00:34:12,586 --> 00:34:13,386
Even I know how to spell.

701
00:34:13,386 --> 00:34:14,186
I mean, of course.

702
00:34:14,186 --> 00:34:14,346
Yeah.

703
00:34:14,346 --> 00:34:15,106
And I have a problem with it.

704
00:34:15,706 --> 00:34:19,066
And, and, and they probably heard this and it's probably a fighter.

705
00:34:19,186 --> 00:34:20,026
It's an older person.

706
00:34:20,026 --> 00:34:20,266
Right.

707
00:34:20,746 --> 00:34:23,746
And here's this somewhere and he's talking to his son and he goes

708
00:34:24,146 --> 00:34:27,506
what's a native cigarette address using air, using quotes.

709
00:34:27,506 --> 00:34:27,746
Right.

710
00:34:28,146 --> 00:34:32,826
And the person goes like, well, is the latest tipping address for my, I mean,

711
00:34:32,826 --> 00:34:37,466
it's just like, what the fuck clarification does that do?

712
00:34:37,666 --> 00:34:38,466
What is it?

713
00:34:38,466 --> 00:34:39,026
That's not true.

714
00:34:39,226 --> 00:34:42,906
It's like asking someone like, like what is mystery word X.

715
00:34:42,906 --> 00:34:44,186
And then they give you, it's mystery word.

716
00:34:44,186 --> 00:34:44,506
Why?

717
00:34:44,866 --> 00:34:45,706
Yeah, exactly.

718
00:34:46,026 --> 00:34:47,306
What the fuck are you talking about?

719
00:34:48,346 --> 00:34:48,746
Two things.

720
00:34:48,746 --> 00:34:49,266
I don't know.

721
00:34:50,266 --> 00:34:53,226
Yeah, they start with, well, he said, he said they start with BC one.

722
00:34:53,226 --> 00:34:56,146
So that was a, that was, that's what they call empiricism.

723
00:34:56,706 --> 00:35:03,626
Kids that he can use information from the census to see if the

724
00:35:03,626 --> 00:35:05,626
address starts with BC, you know, that's not actually true.

725
00:35:05,626 --> 00:35:07,146
They start with BC one Q.

726
00:35:07,186 --> 00:35:13,626
Did you know that one is separating them, but the version number one

727
00:35:13,866 --> 00:35:18,906
translates to Q in this absurd address format that I love.

728
00:35:19,546 --> 00:35:22,026
So they actually all start with BC one Q.

729
00:35:22,066 --> 00:35:23,066
Look it up kids.

730
00:35:23,066 --> 00:35:27,386
Find it, find a batch 32 address that doesn't start with BC one Q and then

731
00:35:27,746 --> 00:35:33,106
post it below when Alex cuts this clip to embarrass me, but they, they start

732
00:35:33,106 --> 00:35:37,906
with BC one Q because the version number is a Q because nothing's more intuitive

733
00:35:37,906 --> 00:35:47,466
than having Q being a human interpretable one for the first version of this.

734
00:35:48,506 --> 00:35:49,066
One second.

735
00:35:49,226 --> 00:35:52,426
Let me bring a bit of context about addresses and whatever.

736
00:35:52,666 --> 00:35:55,986
And then when we get to the point of BC, of these new ones, you step in and you,

737
00:35:55,986 --> 00:35:56,706
you know, and whatever.

738
00:35:56,706 --> 00:35:57,066
Okay.

739
00:35:57,066 --> 00:36:00,466
So add, so addresses pretty much don't really exist in Bitcoin.

740
00:36:00,466 --> 00:36:01,546
If you come think of it, right.

741
00:36:01,746 --> 00:36:02,346
They're like this.

742
00:36:02,626 --> 00:36:03,186
I do not.

743
00:36:03,226 --> 00:36:05,186
They're not, none of them are on the blockchain ever.

744
00:36:05,586 --> 00:36:05,906
Right.

745
00:36:06,066 --> 00:36:09,026
So because I think some other thing called the hash 160 is on the blockchain.

746
00:36:09,546 --> 00:36:10,746
Wait your turn, motherfucker.

747
00:36:10,826 --> 00:36:17,106
So the thing is when you have on the blockchain, you only have transactions

748
00:36:17,106 --> 00:36:18,626
that have an input and an output, right?

749
00:36:18,906 --> 00:36:22,186
And these things end up being scripts, which it's a bit more complicated, but

750
00:36:22,426 --> 00:36:24,626
when you talk about something, you use the word address.

751
00:36:24,666 --> 00:36:28,386
Now the word address is like actually the worst word you can use because it makes

752
00:36:28,386 --> 00:36:31,026
people think that's something else and it's talk right now.

753
00:36:31,026 --> 00:36:32,626
So we're still using them anyway.

754
00:36:32,826 --> 00:36:35,106
And this address seems to be different format.

755
00:36:35,106 --> 00:36:37,466
And there's the classical one, the one that started with one.

756
00:36:38,066 --> 00:36:39,466
And then there's the ones that start with free.

757
00:36:39,666 --> 00:36:43,626
The ones that started with free could be a multi-sig address or a SIGWIT address.

758
00:36:43,666 --> 00:36:47,186
Now, when you say SIGWIT, that's also a bit complicated because there's native

759
00:36:47,186 --> 00:36:51,746
SIGWIT and then there's paid to script hash, which is also referred to as SIGWIT.

760
00:36:52,026 --> 00:36:52,346
Right.

761
00:36:52,746 --> 00:36:57,866
And the thing is that, um, when, excuse me, there are also, there are paid to

762
00:36:57,866 --> 00:37:00,106
script hash that are not SIGWIT, you know that, right?

763
00:37:00,666 --> 00:37:10,666
Three means paid to script hash and they worked out this way of fitting SIGWIT

764
00:37:10,666 --> 00:37:16,306
into that, but then they also came out with this new address for something that

765
00:37:16,306 --> 00:37:17,026
was native SIGWIT.

766
00:37:17,306 --> 00:37:20,266
So the SIGWIT thing, as everyone knows, there's like the SIG, which stands for

767
00:37:20,786 --> 00:37:21,186
Segregated Weakness.

768
00:37:21,186 --> 00:37:24,146
When this update happened and we talked about in the last episode, go check it

769
00:37:24,146 --> 00:37:24,346
out.

770
00:37:24,826 --> 00:37:29,546
And then it kind of became really obvious that SIGWIT being good, everyone

771
00:37:29,546 --> 00:37:30,906
needed to use SIGWIT.

772
00:37:31,226 --> 00:37:36,306
And it was the real SIGWIT, which was the BC1 addresses that the SunTracker

773
00:37:36,306 --> 00:37:37,226
was going to say to fodder.

774
00:37:37,506 --> 00:37:40,706
And then there's the fake SIGWIT ones, if I could call them.

775
00:37:41,106 --> 00:37:45,306
But anyway, why don't you explain, I know you have some criticisms on, uh, on the

776
00:37:45,306 --> 00:37:45,826
BC1 address.

777
00:37:45,826 --> 00:37:47,026
On batch 32?

778
00:37:47,066 --> 00:37:48,986
Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to have.

779
00:37:49,826 --> 00:37:51,626
Ah, there's, I don't even know where to begin.

780
00:37:51,626 --> 00:37:59,426
It was like, this is like, this is like if the autism spectrum designed an address

781
00:37:59,426 --> 00:38:03,906
format, because there are all these criteria about making it easier for QR

782
00:38:03,906 --> 00:38:04,546
codes.

783
00:38:04,546 --> 00:38:08,066
And the poor computer has to do shots.

784
00:38:08,066 --> 00:38:11,186
You did six twice through the checksum and the normal address.

785
00:38:11,186 --> 00:38:18,066
So they came up with this thing that is like faster to read over the telephone by

786
00:38:18,306 --> 00:38:22,346
some percentage point, but, but it misses a lot of the important things about

787
00:38:22,346 --> 00:38:22,946
address.

788
00:38:22,946 --> 00:38:26,546
One is that they are, they represent Bitcoin visually.

789
00:38:26,586 --> 00:38:27,626
So they are iconic.

790
00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:36,106
So people are used to the one random string of characters, stop, like 20

791
00:38:36,106 --> 00:38:36,746
characters.

792
00:38:36,786 --> 00:38:38,546
They were used to that look.

793
00:38:39,786 --> 00:38:44,266
And that was even showing up in like television shows and maybe even a movie

794
00:38:44,266 --> 00:38:44,866
or something.

795
00:38:45,346 --> 00:38:46,906
You, you would see this thing.

796
00:38:46,986 --> 00:38:51,466
Oh, it's a Bitcoin address, but these look just very different.

797
00:38:51,466 --> 00:38:57,306
So it throws away all of the, the goodwill and the, the marketing and the culture

798
00:38:57,306 --> 00:39:01,546
that had been built up, which that's extremely valuable when you're trying to

799
00:39:01,546 --> 00:39:03,866
get the entire world to adopt this as money.

800
00:39:04,666 --> 00:39:10,826
But in particular, what's absurd about them is that they all start with BC1Q and

801
00:39:10,826 --> 00:39:14,386
it makes it so that your eye just very visually, it's very difficult for your eye

802
00:39:14,386 --> 00:39:20,146
to see in to the first few characters of the address that are relevant.

803
00:39:21,186 --> 00:39:27,226
And the whole point of having started with a one or two or three, or, you know, or

804
00:39:27,226 --> 00:39:32,226
some other thing like with them in Zcash, there's the transparent and the Z, the T

805
00:39:32,226 --> 00:39:36,106
addresses and the Z address and Litecoin with the L and Dogecoin with the D.

806
00:39:36,986 --> 00:39:41,626
The whole point is that the first character packs a lot of punch, but with

807
00:39:41,626 --> 00:39:45,026
this, they have four characters that pack no punch at all.

808
00:39:45,666 --> 00:39:52,586
And that makes it visually sort of tiresome to, to just look at the addresses,

809
00:39:52,586 --> 00:39:55,826
which I think is so bad all by itself.

810
00:39:55,826 --> 00:40:00,706
And it, you know, it eliminates most of the other positive features.

811
00:40:00,706 --> 00:40:04,746
So they could have just replaced the BC1Q with like a four or something.

812
00:40:05,706 --> 00:40:11,386
I don't even care, but I'm sure that that's probably P2SH on the testnet.

813
00:40:11,466 --> 00:40:13,026
But it doesn't make any difference.

814
00:40:13,306 --> 00:40:14,866
You could still use it as a four.

815
00:40:16,226 --> 00:40:19,306
Um, well, Steger is 141, is it not?

816
00:40:19,546 --> 00:40:22,866
Although, oh, it had its own, didn't it?

817
00:40:23,906 --> 00:40:24,306
Yeah.

818
00:40:24,306 --> 00:40:24,906
I don't know.

819
00:40:24,906 --> 00:40:26,306
Uh, that's a good question.

820
00:40:27,746 --> 00:40:27,986
Yeah.

821
00:40:27,986 --> 00:40:28,666
Wait one second.

822
00:40:28,826 --> 00:40:30,026
It's, it's called, wait, let me show you.

823
00:40:30,026 --> 00:40:30,706
173.

824
00:40:31,706 --> 00:40:31,986
Yeah.

825
00:40:32,106 --> 00:40:34,306
I, I'm going to show it in the, in the Zoom box here.

826
00:40:34,946 --> 00:40:35,346
There you go.

827
00:40:35,626 --> 00:40:35,946
Okay.

828
00:40:35,946 --> 00:40:37,426
Uh, who, who wrote this?

829
00:40:38,546 --> 00:40:39,706
William Maxwell.

830
00:40:39,906 --> 00:40:40,306
Yeah.

831
00:40:40,306 --> 00:40:41,386
I was going to say William Maxwell.

832
00:40:41,386 --> 00:40:41,826
Exactly.

833
00:40:41,826 --> 00:40:42,106
Right.

834
00:40:42,426 --> 00:40:45,426
We need to, we need to, we need to put another bounty on this motherfucker.

835
00:40:46,786 --> 00:40:50,186
What's, oh, from the, from the, whatever joke from last time.

836
00:40:50,226 --> 00:40:50,866
Yeah.

837
00:40:52,306 --> 00:40:53,866
I got actually a couple of messages about that.

838
00:40:53,906 --> 00:40:58,106
People are like, oh, some people ask me like, what am I talking about?

839
00:40:58,826 --> 00:41:01,546
But then other people were like, oh, that's ingenious.

840
00:41:01,546 --> 00:41:02,106
I never heard of it.

841
00:41:02,106 --> 00:41:07,826
Cause if you think about it, he says, Murcha says you have to produce the,

842
00:41:08,026 --> 00:41:08,706
what does he say?

843
00:41:09,106 --> 00:41:11,306
Verifiable death certificate.

844
00:41:11,626 --> 00:41:16,266
So it's clearly, but it's clearly a joke about the cryptographic witness that,

845
00:41:16,266 --> 00:41:19,946
cause the death certificate is like the witness, the cryptographic witness of

846
00:41:19,946 --> 00:41:21,066
like, see what I mean?

847
00:41:21,066 --> 00:41:24,986
Like his parents, if he just got like hit by a bus or something, his parents

848
00:41:24,986 --> 00:41:26,186
could produce the death certificate.

849
00:41:27,266 --> 00:41:28,386
So it's like a joke.

850
00:41:28,466 --> 00:41:32,026
The whole thing is a segue joke, but I'm sorry that more people don't appreciate

851
00:41:32,026 --> 00:41:36,786
that and that guy has a completely insane sense of humor, but that's clearly how I

852
00:41:36,786 --> 00:41:37,146
took it.

853
00:41:37,906 --> 00:41:38,226
Okay.

854
00:41:38,226 --> 00:41:38,706
So, yeah.

855
00:41:38,706 --> 00:41:43,426
So why are you linked to the BIP so that I can, I was just, I was just, I was just

856
00:41:43,426 --> 00:41:45,146
curious who, um, who wrote it.

857
00:41:45,666 --> 00:41:46,266
Yeah, of course.

858
00:41:46,266 --> 00:41:52,066
Why, as I say, I was like, you know, it's, it's like, this is, you know, when I

859
00:41:52,066 --> 00:41:55,746
look at batch 32, you know, there's a famous clip, maybe we should not link it.

860
00:41:55,746 --> 00:41:56,506
I don't know if I did.

861
00:41:57,026 --> 00:42:02,426
It's where the clip is Steve jobs fielding questions and there's clearly some

862
00:42:02,426 --> 00:42:03,626
disgruntled engineer.

863
00:42:04,426 --> 00:42:06,666
And I think they killed the open doc or something.

864
00:42:06,746 --> 00:42:07,706
You may know this clip.

865
00:42:07,706 --> 00:42:08,626
It's quite famous.

866
00:42:09,386 --> 00:42:13,546
And he says that Steve jobs fucking fraud and he sucks or whatever.

867
00:42:14,226 --> 00:42:16,826
What have you been doing for the last seven years?

868
00:42:16,826 --> 00:42:16,946
Yeah.

869
00:42:16,946 --> 00:42:17,826
He says something like that.

870
00:42:17,866 --> 00:42:18,186
Yeah.

871
00:42:18,506 --> 00:42:18,786
Yeah.

872
00:42:18,826 --> 00:42:24,066
And he says he's clearly upset and he's clearly like a divergent to Steve jobs

873
00:42:24,066 --> 00:42:24,866
is Chad.

874
00:42:25,306 --> 00:42:30,466
Um, and then Steve jobs gives like his charming kind of magic CEO answer.

875
00:42:30,986 --> 00:42:31,266
Right.

876
00:42:31,826 --> 00:42:34,826
But the answer is like, you have to start, we have to work from the user experience

877
00:42:34,826 --> 00:42:39,106
and he's like, he knows there's going to be a lot of good technology that it's

878
00:42:39,106 --> 00:42:40,866
just, the timing won't be right or whatever.

879
00:42:41,746 --> 00:42:47,626
But when I, I, when I see the batch 32 addresses, I, I just think of the guy

880
00:42:47,626 --> 00:42:52,546
talking to Steve jobs and I think that it's the wrong, it's the wrong direction.

881
00:42:53,506 --> 00:42:57,026
So, cause no, cause he wouldn't care about the, how iconic it looks, the old

882
00:42:57,026 --> 00:43:01,506
addresses, they have a certain look and this is like, this is like, I want to

883
00:43:01,506 --> 00:43:02,026
drift a bit.

884
00:43:02,026 --> 00:43:02,666
I want to drift a bit.

885
00:43:02,906 --> 00:43:04,306
So, uh, let me ask you this.

886
00:43:04,346 --> 00:43:07,826
Do you spend a lot of time on Bitcoin Weezers and on IRC and all this thing?

887
00:43:07,906 --> 00:43:08,626
I used to.

888
00:43:08,666 --> 00:43:09,946
No, not in years.

889
00:43:09,946 --> 00:43:11,186
You're not, you're not active anymore.

890
00:43:11,186 --> 00:43:12,506
But I used to, yeah, all the time.

891
00:43:13,266 --> 00:43:13,546
Yeah.

892
00:43:13,826 --> 00:43:14,746
Why don't you spend a bit?

893
00:43:14,746 --> 00:43:15,586
Well, I know why.

894
00:43:15,586 --> 00:43:17,706
I know you're getting, you know why.

895
00:43:17,706 --> 00:43:18,626
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

896
00:43:18,746 --> 00:43:22,306
No, that's why it's because they are very predictable at this point.

897
00:43:22,786 --> 00:43:26,706
So instead of the 301 and 300 BIP, did you read, write any other BIPs?

898
00:43:28,226 --> 00:43:29,626
Or did you even wrote those ones yourself?

899
00:43:29,826 --> 00:43:31,466
I wrote 300 and 301.

900
00:43:32,226 --> 00:43:32,546
Okay.

901
00:43:32,546 --> 00:43:32,786
Okay.

902
00:43:33,306 --> 00:43:34,026
I was just curious.

903
00:43:34,026 --> 00:43:35,186
Anyway, a side note.

904
00:43:35,426 --> 00:43:35,826
Okay.

905
00:43:35,906 --> 00:43:38,266
So then the, the, the, the BCH one, you don't like it.

906
00:43:38,266 --> 00:43:38,626
Yeah.

907
00:43:39,026 --> 00:43:40,066
I don't know what to say about it.

908
00:43:40,066 --> 00:43:42,746
I think the, I think it's mostly harmless.

909
00:43:42,746 --> 00:43:47,466
I just think it's, it's absurd that they went through all this trouble for

910
00:43:47,466 --> 00:43:52,066
something that I think is clearly worse, but I don't think it's like a huge deal.

911
00:43:52,306 --> 00:43:54,506
So, but of course everyone's saying it's so great.

912
00:43:55,786 --> 00:43:59,986
So when you're doing this, so when you're doing a normal address, you, you get your,

913
00:43:59,986 --> 00:44:04,146
your, your elliptic, you get your, your, your, your point, right?

914
00:44:04,386 --> 00:44:08,106
The public key, which is almost always compressed these days.

915
00:44:08,346 --> 00:44:08,706
Right.

916
00:44:08,706 --> 00:44:11,146
And then you have to do two SHAs on it, right?

917
00:44:11,146 --> 00:44:12,946
You have to do a ripe ND, another SHA.

918
00:44:12,986 --> 00:44:13,306
Anyway.

919
00:44:13,706 --> 00:44:14,106
No, no, no.

920
00:44:14,106 --> 00:44:16,266
You do one SHA and then one ripe ND.

921
00:44:17,386 --> 00:44:17,786
Yeah.

922
00:44:17,786 --> 00:44:17,826
Yeah.

923
00:44:17,826 --> 00:44:18,106
Okay.

924
00:44:18,146 --> 00:44:18,346
Yeah.

925
00:44:18,346 --> 00:44:18,626
Sorry.

926
00:44:19,066 --> 00:44:22,146
So then when you, then you do two SHAs later for the checksum.

927
00:44:22,746 --> 00:44:23,906
That's the human readable part.

928
00:44:24,586 --> 00:44:24,826
Okay.

929
00:44:24,826 --> 00:44:27,546
So then what is different in this process?

930
00:44:27,706 --> 00:44:29,746
How is this different for the BITCH32 one?

931
00:44:29,746 --> 00:44:33,426
Where it's just like the last two steps are different or they're not different at
all.

932
00:44:34,506 --> 00:44:37,106
The crucial thing is scripts.

933
00:44:37,786 --> 00:44:38,306
I'm not, okay.

934
00:44:38,306 --> 00:44:43,866
I don't know if anyone will care or follow this, but on the blockchain is only that
thing that I

935
00:44:43,866 --> 00:44:47,946
called the hash 160, which may mislead people itself.

936
00:44:47,946 --> 00:44:55,146
I don't know, because that's also the operation of taking a SHA-256 and then ripe ND
on 60.

937
00:44:55,146 --> 00:44:58,986
But the point is there are these bytes on the blockchain, and then when you want to

938
00:44:58,986 --> 00:45:00,586
spend, there's the scripts.

939
00:45:00,586 --> 00:45:06,026
So the script says, if you want to move these coins, you're going to unlock this
UTXO.

940
00:45:07,066 --> 00:45:14,226
You must give me the thing that when I hash, when hash becomes, in a certain way,

941
00:45:14,546 --> 00:45:16,146
becomes these bytes.

942
00:45:16,746 --> 00:45:18,626
So you must give the public key and hash it.

943
00:45:19,626 --> 00:45:29,666
And when that thing, when that thing signs this transaction, the signature comes
from this

944
00:45:29,666 --> 00:45:30,426
public key.

945
00:45:31,226 --> 00:45:39,866
So you have to give it something that is a public key and that it matches the, what
will be

946
00:45:39,866 --> 00:45:41,666
these bytes, the hash 160.

947
00:45:42,466 --> 00:45:44,866
So there's a string of bytes in a little script.

948
00:45:45,866 --> 00:45:51,626
And what matters is the script and the script tells you, the script just tells you
what it is.

949
00:45:51,626 --> 00:45:55,986
And then you, if you have the public key and the private key, you will be able to
produce a

950
00:45:55,986 --> 00:45:58,306
signature and you'll be able to also reveal the public key.

951
00:45:58,706 --> 00:46:02,066
So you will then give it the script, what it needs to unlock.

952
00:46:03,186 --> 00:46:13,146
And so, again, as you were saying, the addresses themselves are not actually on the,
on the

953
00:46:13,146 --> 00:46:13,906
blockchain at all.

954
00:46:14,146 --> 00:46:15,026
Maybe I was saying that.

955
00:46:15,026 --> 00:46:15,346
I don't know.

956
00:46:15,346 --> 00:46:17,186
But the point is the addresses aren't in the blockchain.

957
00:46:19,186 --> 00:46:21,786
Yeah, so that the addresses aren't in the blockchain.

958
00:46:21,946 --> 00:46:24,066
So there's no BCH one.

959
00:46:24,546 --> 00:46:26,146
A question is why?

960
00:46:26,866 --> 00:46:27,306
Oh, yeah.

961
00:46:27,306 --> 00:46:30,786
Well, this is silly when the person says it's good for fast transaction speed,
better

962
00:46:30,786 --> 00:46:32,666
scalability, even lower fees for transaction.

963
00:46:32,986 --> 00:46:38,506
The reason that the fees are lower is not because of any kind of efficient
compression.

964
00:46:38,506 --> 00:46:42,706
And in fact, the batch 32 addresses are longer because they don't use mixed case.

965
00:46:42,706 --> 00:46:45,186
So they're actually, the addresses themselves are bigger.

966
00:46:45,186 --> 00:46:49,586
But as I just tried to explain, the addresses themselves are not on the blockchain
at all.

967
00:46:49,586 --> 00:46:53,666
The script, the efficiency comes from the script and the witness they are.

968
00:46:53,666 --> 00:46:54,066
Yes.

969
00:46:54,066 --> 00:47:00,066
And the address is just a way of talking about those bytes that are on the
blockchain in a

970
00:47:00,066 --> 00:47:04,066
way that minimizes human confusion and typos.

971
00:47:04,466 --> 00:47:09,746
But this is just whatever bytes are there, that is the key for the public, for this
key

972
00:47:09,746 --> 00:47:10,866
pair situation.

973
00:47:10,946 --> 00:47:12,266
I have a tangential question.

974
00:47:12,706 --> 00:47:17,266
I remember at some point you couldn't, so right now you don't put a public key just

975
00:47:17,266 --> 00:47:18,826
like that, right?

976
00:47:18,866 --> 00:47:22,426
Because and I know there was to be this in a transaction.

977
00:47:22,706 --> 00:47:23,346
You don't just.

978
00:47:23,346 --> 00:47:29,986
When you are spending to the address, you do not, by convention, you don't put it
there.

979
00:47:30,346 --> 00:47:31,306
I guess you could.

980
00:47:31,306 --> 00:47:32,266
And I, you know, I don't know.

981
00:47:32,266 --> 00:47:33,106
I've never really looked into that.

982
00:47:33,106 --> 00:47:37,586
So I remember at some point I was reading on Bitcoin talk a long time ago that the

983
00:47:37,586 --> 00:47:40,386
argument was that in case there's some quantum thing.

984
00:47:41,026 --> 00:47:43,026
It happens to be, I think, an unexpected benefit.

985
00:47:43,826 --> 00:47:48,706
Yeah, but actually, I think Peter Wooler wrote a post like last year and he, well,
he

986
00:47:48,706 --> 00:47:50,546
explained that actually it's stupid, right?

987
00:47:50,546 --> 00:47:51,506
It doesn't make any sense.

988
00:47:51,746 --> 00:47:56,106
And also the thing is that isn't Genoa actually not going to do that anymore?

989
00:47:56,106 --> 00:47:58,946
Isn't Genoa just going to have the public key pretty much there?

990
00:47:58,986 --> 00:47:59,546
I don't know.

991
00:47:59,546 --> 00:48:03,426
I would be interested in that because I've always wondered that myself, like.

992
00:48:04,626 --> 00:48:08,546
Isn't it a waste to put 20 bytes?

993
00:48:09,346 --> 00:48:10,306
I wish I would find this.

994
00:48:10,786 --> 00:48:13,586
But I have actually never, I don't want to say it because I haven't looked into it
at

995
00:48:13,586 --> 00:48:20,386
all, but I've always wondered why put, and right now the script has 20 bytes and
then

996
00:48:20,386 --> 00:48:25,426
later on you'll have the entire public key, which will probably be compressed and
the

997
00:48:25,426 --> 00:48:29,986
signature, but couldn't you have just put the one public key in the first place and

998
00:48:29,986 --> 00:48:35,586
then you would never need the total across all things would be less, you would
think.

999
00:48:36,386 --> 00:48:38,626
I really would want, I'm trying to find that post right now.

1000
00:48:38,626 --> 00:48:40,386
He explains it on Stack Overflow.

1001
00:48:40,386 --> 00:48:42,226
I can't remember what you're talking about, right?

1002
00:48:42,226 --> 00:48:42,946
I'm not, I don't know.

1003
00:48:42,946 --> 00:48:43,266
I don't know.

1004
00:48:43,266 --> 00:48:44,306
I know I saw it on Twitter.

1005
00:48:44,306 --> 00:48:46,866
Anyway, even if we tweet at him, I don't think he's going to answer it now.

1006
00:48:46,866 --> 00:48:53,666
Anyway, but yeah, there was an interesting thing where quantum computers may at some

1007
00:48:53,666 --> 00:48:58,306
point be able to take the public key and figure out what the private key is, but it
just so

1008
00:48:58,306 --> 00:49:00,466
happens that since that'll take them a while.

1009
00:49:01,426 --> 00:49:08,146
And since Bitcoin transactions send to the hash of the public key, as I've just
tried

1010
00:49:08,146 --> 00:49:14,066
to explain, they won't know what the public key is until the next person spends it.

1011
00:49:14,066 --> 00:49:15,186
So it'll be too late.

1012
00:49:15,186 --> 00:49:17,826
And so it just happens to be like quantum proof.

1013
00:49:17,826 --> 00:49:23,666
But I think that that was just kind of a, maybe a lucky coincidence or an
unintentional

1014
00:49:23,666 --> 00:49:24,066
thing.

1015
00:49:24,066 --> 00:49:24,306
Yeah.

1016
00:49:24,306 --> 00:49:27,506
Well, the thing is like, I think that was, that was, that was Jessica and folk or
Bitcoin

1017
00:49:27,506 --> 00:49:27,986
folk, right?

1018
00:49:27,986 --> 00:49:28,706
They got passed around.

1019
00:49:29,026 --> 00:49:33,026
Yeah, that was, there was definitely folklore that just got passed around too.

1020
00:49:33,026 --> 00:49:34,466
That's exactly what that was.

1021
00:49:34,466 --> 00:49:35,906
I really should find it post.

1022
00:49:35,906 --> 00:49:37,826
We're going to try to look for it from next time.

1023
00:49:38,706 --> 00:49:39,106
Yeah.

1024
00:49:39,106 --> 00:49:41,026
How the fuck do we even kind of understand that?

1025
00:49:41,026 --> 00:49:44,146
Because we were talking about this guy, the dad, teach me Bitcoin.

1026
00:49:44,866 --> 00:49:46,386
Oh yeah, okay, okay.

1027
00:49:46,386 --> 00:49:47,186
Anyway, so that's all.

1028
00:49:47,186 --> 00:49:50,146
You just said one criticism for a bitch for 82 addresses.

1029
00:49:51,426 --> 00:49:53,986
The appearance and the absurd number of bytes.

1030
00:49:53,986 --> 00:49:58,946
There's no using one is not the version number.

1031
00:49:59,198 --> 00:50:05,198
Queue is the version number like, well, if you're going to be the torture to death
of something, this is like insane decisions.

1032
00:50:05,198 --> 00:50:25,198
Yeah. Yeah. I think it should just start with a four instead of BC one queue. I
would like that better. I know it's pretty obvious. We're not going to use addresses
in the future. It's so it's like, I know there's not going to use, no one's going to
use any addresses of any kind. So yeah, it is like IP addresses. It's like, you
know, that's a yet another reason why we're not going to use addresses in the
future.

1033
00:50:25,198 --> 00:50:28,198
That's yet another reason why it's silly to do.

1034
00:50:28,198 --> 00:50:43,198
Well, I don't know if it's silly anyway, but you know, it's like, you know, like a
lot of people right now, some people still know how to use a wire shark and scan for
packets. Right. But it's like, it's a very like fucking low level thing to do. You
know what I'm trying to say?

1035
00:50:43,198 --> 00:51:07,198
Yeah, that'd be like the people with this. I think you're right. I mean, so with
SegWit, there had to be some designation to say this is a totally different type of
output. So they had to do. So what they say is we had to do a different address
format anyway. So we put a lot of thought into this one. And look how much easier it
is to read over the phone. That's, that's like what they say.

1036
00:51:07,198 --> 00:51:30,198
I know, you know, and the thing is, like, I've heard that also. And like that, it's
the fact that there's no, there's no fucking like capital letters and whatever. But
I don't, I think this is the same as the quantum argument. Like, I actually thought
about it. I don't think they were thinking about it. I think someone put it out
there. And the meme just get past them. I don't look, I don't know, this is a bit
too much over my head. And I'm not sure. And I never looked at much of those things.
So

1037
00:51:30,198 --> 00:51:58,198
SegWit is I want to say one final thing, though, that the it's only cheaper, because
in a this is like a Jihan Wu, remember, he said the unfairly cheap thing. There's a
different if a transaction is made completely with SegWit, with native SegWit, more
of it is in the new extension block, versus if it's completely in the old way, all
of it has to be the old one megabyte block.

1038
00:51:59,198 --> 00:52:08,198
But if it's new, with native SegWit, more of it is pushed away into the extension
block, the four megabyte part.

1039
00:52:08,198 --> 00:52:13,198
So what you're trying to say is that the data is just going to be discounted. And
that's why it's going to be

1040
00:52:13,198 --> 00:52:21,198
The two transactions that consume the same amount of bytes and have make your
computer do the same amount of work.

1041
00:52:21,198 --> 00:52:27,198
The SegWit one will be cheaper, but that is not as a result of any engineering
efficiency.

1042
00:52:28,198 --> 00:52:42,198
It is the exact same number of bytes going over the wire, and it is the same work
done by your CPU, probably even more, but maybe not, you know, like SegWit, you
know, decoding and recoding.

1043
00:52:43,198 --> 00:52:54,198
So the savings are completely, I understand what Jihan Wu was saying when he said
unfairly cheap, even though it's a funny way of putting it.

1044
00:52:54,198 --> 00:53:00,198
Really, what happened was the old ones are sort of unfairly over expensive.

1045
00:53:01,198 --> 00:53:06,198
Those are like quadruple charged. Well, they're not quite, but they're, those are
overcharged.

1046
00:53:06,198 --> 00:53:15,198
It's the same transaction, but it just consumes more of the precious one megabyte
non-witness part of the block.

1047
00:53:15,198 --> 00:53:25,198
And so the fact that the fees are cheaper when using native SegWit has nothing to do
with any actual physics or engineering.

1048
00:53:25,198 --> 00:53:31,198
The cheapness comes from the fact that it's per byte when you put how much you pay
per unit of something.

1049
00:53:31,198 --> 00:53:32,198
That's why it feels cheaper.

1050
00:53:32,198 --> 00:53:33,198
It's per V-byte.

1051
00:53:33,198 --> 00:53:36,198
Correct, it's per V-byte. It's not the same thing, I know.

1052
00:53:36,198 --> 00:53:37,198
Yes.

1053
00:53:37,198 --> 00:53:38,198
That's why it gets cheaper, actually.

1054
00:53:38,198 --> 00:53:44,198
That's what I'm saying. But it's the same, you understand that the transaction, two
transactions could be the exact same size.

1055
00:53:44,198 --> 00:53:50,198
One, they could both be 300 bytes, one native SegWit and one completely legacy.

1056
00:53:51,198 --> 00:53:58,198
And this native SegWit one will be cheaper, but it's 300 bytes over the wire.

1057
00:53:58,198 --> 00:54:03,198
It's another, it's whatever entries into the UTXO set.

1058
00:54:03,198 --> 00:54:08,198
And so it's not cheaper because the transactions are more efficient at all.

1059
00:54:10,198 --> 00:54:13,198
Yeah, I got it. I mean, I kind of knew that, so yeah.

1060
00:54:13,198 --> 00:54:15,198
But I think that's a very important clarification.

1061
00:54:15,198 --> 00:54:18,198
I think most people don't know anything about that, so.

1062
00:54:19,198 --> 00:54:22,198
You know what was weird? You remember, you know John Carvalho, right?

1063
00:54:22,198 --> 00:54:23,198
I do, yeah.

1064
00:54:23,198 --> 00:54:26,198
I met him a few times. He's a really cool guy, by the way.

1065
00:54:26,198 --> 00:54:29,198
Anyway, he was like really vocal about SegWit and all these things, right?

1066
00:54:29,198 --> 00:54:32,198
Do you remember the Roger Ver thing, the whatever, right?

1067
00:54:32,198 --> 00:54:33,198
I do, yes.

1068
00:54:33,198 --> 00:54:37,198
And I find it really funny. And again, I don't want to like, John is a very smart
guy.

1069
00:54:37,198 --> 00:54:38,198
I know exactly what you're going to say.

1070
00:54:38,198 --> 00:54:42,198
But he fucking tweets like a few weeks ago.

1071
00:54:42,198 --> 00:54:44,198
It was very recently.

1072
00:54:44,198 --> 00:54:46,198
Yeah, that actually, that was a block increase.

1073
00:54:46,198 --> 00:54:48,198
And I was just like, dude, that's rookie.

1074
00:54:48,198 --> 00:54:50,198
Like, look, I'm an idiot.

1075
00:54:50,198 --> 00:54:53,198
And he was so against the block size.

1076
00:54:53,198 --> 00:54:57,198
This is like, you know, any hard-fought block size increase too.

1077
00:54:57,198 --> 00:55:00,198
So he was accidentally 4-1 for years, but he had no idea.

1078
00:55:00,198 --> 00:55:01,198
I mean, what do you even say?

1079
00:55:01,198 --> 00:55:02,198
That was a bit cringy.

1080
00:55:02,198 --> 00:55:07,198
Again, I like John a lot, and he's a cool guy, and he's like very smart.

1081
00:55:07,198 --> 00:55:08,198
A lot of people are like that.

1082
00:55:08,198 --> 00:55:09,198
Most people don't.

1083
00:55:09,198 --> 00:55:13,198
See, I did a tweet, and I think most people just didn't understand it at all.

1084
00:55:13,198 --> 00:55:16,198
I thought it was kind of clever, but I think it may have been too clever.

1085
00:55:16,198 --> 00:55:17,198
Did you do it again?

1086
00:55:17,198 --> 00:55:18,198
Did you piss people off again?

1087
00:55:18,198 --> 00:55:19,198
Maybe.

1088
00:55:19,198 --> 00:55:24,198
No, it was a while ago when I was like, I don't remember exactly.

1089
00:55:24,198 --> 00:55:34,198
I phrased it, but it was something like, in 2017, the Bitcoin community were both,

1090
00:55:35,198 --> 00:55:42,198
they were like, they both rejected a block size increase and increased the block
size

1091
00:55:42,198 --> 00:55:44,198
or something like that.

1092
00:55:44,198 --> 00:55:46,198
So you never know which side the community is on.

1093
00:55:46,198 --> 00:55:49,198
Like, that was the joke of the tweet, is like, which side is the community on?

1094
00:55:49,198 --> 00:55:52,198
But most people were just like, what are you talking about?

1095
00:55:52,198 --> 00:55:58,198
But the block size increase was SegWit, and the one that was rejected was SegWit2x.

1096
00:55:58,198 --> 00:56:01,198
But SegWit was a block size increase.

1097
00:56:01,198 --> 00:56:02,198
Yeah.

1098
00:56:02,198 --> 00:56:06,198
But in all fairness, like, it took me, I think, a few weeks to understand what's
actually

1099
00:56:06,198 --> 00:56:07,198
happening.

1100
00:56:07,198 --> 00:56:08,198
And even right now, I don't think I got it.

1101
00:56:08,198 --> 00:56:10,198
And the only way to really get what's happening-

1102
00:56:10,198 --> 00:56:14,198
No, but if you don't understand this word, then you should never support or reject
anything.

1103
00:56:14,198 --> 00:56:16,198
Yeah, I guess that's a valid point.

1104
00:56:16,198 --> 00:56:20,198
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you really have to, like, sit down and look
at

1105
00:56:20,198 --> 00:56:23,198
a transaction and really calculate the VBI.

1106
00:56:23,198 --> 00:56:24,198
Yeah, you do.

1107
00:56:24,198 --> 00:56:25,198
That's the only way you're going to understand it.

1108
00:56:25,198 --> 00:56:26,198
Which is torture.

1109
00:56:26,198 --> 00:56:27,198
It's very difficult to do.

1110
00:56:27,198 --> 00:56:28,198
Yeah.

1111
00:56:28,198 --> 00:56:31,198
Because I know what you're going to say, because I don't have a calculator.

1112
00:56:31,198 --> 00:56:33,198
No, but I'll tell you, there is one.

1113
00:56:33,198 --> 00:56:35,198
There's a great, my favorite block explorer.

1114
00:56:35,198 --> 00:56:36,198
Yog.io.

1115
00:56:36,198 --> 00:56:37,198
Look it up.

1116
00:56:37,198 --> 00:56:38,198
It's great.

1117
00:56:38,198 --> 00:56:39,198
Link it to me right now.

1118
00:56:39,198 --> 00:56:42,198
Y-O-G-H.io.

1119
00:56:42,198 --> 00:56:45,198
And it has everything broken down by byte.

1120
00:56:45,198 --> 00:56:46,198
You're kidding me.

1121
00:56:46,198 --> 00:56:47,198
It's the most marvelous thing in the universe.

1122
00:56:47,198 --> 00:56:48,198
I can't find it.

1123
00:56:48,198 --> 00:56:50,198
Can you please link it?

1124
00:56:50,198 --> 00:56:51,198
Y-O-G-H.io.

1125
00:56:51,198 --> 00:56:54,198
I will link it to you, but that's silly that you need to link it.

1126
00:56:54,198 --> 00:56:55,198
I don't know how to spell.

1127
00:56:55,198 --> 00:56:57,198
I don't know how to spell.

1128
00:56:57,198 --> 00:56:58,198
Oh, my God.

1129
00:56:58,198 --> 00:56:59,198
I don't know.

1130
00:56:59,198 --> 00:57:00,198
I really don't know how to spell.

1131
00:57:00,198 --> 00:57:01,198
You don't.

1132
00:57:01,198 --> 00:57:04,198
I've seen stuff you write in the document.

1133
00:57:04,198 --> 00:57:06,198
I'm not kidding, by the way.

1134
00:57:06,198 --> 00:57:08,198
In Romanian, everything sounds the same.

1135
00:57:08,198 --> 00:57:09,198
It sounds as you read it.

1136
00:57:09,198 --> 00:57:10,198
In Romanian.

1137
00:57:10,198 --> 00:57:15,198
You have to do some kind of Romanian time with Alex.

1138
00:57:19,198 --> 00:57:22,198
No, but there has to be like a Romanian holiday or something.

1139
00:57:22,198 --> 00:57:23,198
Like Thanksgiving.

1140
00:57:23,198 --> 00:57:26,198
Romanian Thanksgiving.

1141
00:57:26,198 --> 00:57:29,198
Well, we don't have Romanian Thanksgiving because we have to be thankful.

1142
00:57:29,198 --> 00:57:30,198
Some other thing.

1143
00:57:30,198 --> 00:57:32,198
You just need some other thing.

1144
00:57:32,198 --> 00:57:33,198
Oh, my God.

1145
00:57:33,198 --> 00:57:34,198
This is incredible.

1146
00:57:34,198 --> 00:57:36,198
You mouse over it.

1147
00:57:36,198 --> 00:57:38,198
It gives you whatever you're looking at.

1148
00:57:38,198 --> 00:57:40,198
It does the endianness correct.

1149
00:57:40,198 --> 00:57:41,198
It does everything.

1150
00:57:41,198 --> 00:57:45,198
Dude, this is almost as good as the thing I showed last time.

1151
00:57:45,198 --> 00:57:46,198
Is it good?

1152
00:57:46,198 --> 00:57:47,198
Oh, this is so good.

1153
00:57:47,198 --> 00:57:48,198
Yeah, this is a really nice one.

1154
00:57:48,198 --> 00:57:49,198
Nice one.

1155
00:57:49,198 --> 00:57:50,198
Good job.

1156
00:57:50,198 --> 00:57:52,198
Yeah, it's been my favorite block explorer for years.

1157
00:57:52,198 --> 00:57:53,198
Oh, my God.

1158
00:57:53,198 --> 00:57:55,198
I've been looking for such a thing like this.

1159
00:57:55,198 --> 00:57:56,198
It's great.

1160
00:57:56,198 --> 00:57:58,198
Oh, you want to know something really great?

1161
00:57:58,198 --> 00:58:00,198
It's just like a mining simulator.

1162
00:58:00,198 --> 00:58:04,198
It's super absurd and silly, but it's very fun to watch.

1163
00:58:04,198 --> 00:58:07,198
If you go back up to the top.

1164
00:58:07,198 --> 00:58:08,198
Wait one second.

1165
00:58:08,198 --> 00:58:10,198
This podcast is just going to be us looking at.

1166
00:58:10,198 --> 00:58:11,198
What do I have to look at right now?

1167
00:58:11,198 --> 00:58:12,198
Tell me what I have to look at.

1168
00:58:12,198 --> 00:58:16,198
Go up to the top and click Bitcoin reader to go back to the main page.

1169
00:58:16,198 --> 00:58:20,198
Click mining simulator and then click start.

1170
00:58:20,198 --> 00:58:24,198
No way.

1171
00:58:24,198 --> 00:58:25,198
Dude, this is such a good.

1172
00:58:25,198 --> 00:58:26,198
It counts the amounts up.

1173
00:58:26,198 --> 00:58:28,198
It's so funny.

1174
00:58:28,198 --> 00:58:30,198
This is the silliest thing ever.

1175
00:58:30,198 --> 00:58:32,198
This is the best education tool I ever came across.

1176
00:58:32,198 --> 00:58:34,198
Isn't it great?

1177
00:58:34,198 --> 00:58:38,198
See, this is what I want in everything.

1178
00:58:38,198 --> 00:58:40,198
Oh, this is so great.

1179
00:58:40,198 --> 00:58:42,198
Yeah, you can even see the time.

1180
00:58:42,198 --> 00:58:47,198
The first time I started looking at Bitcoin, I was probably in 2013 or something.

1181
00:58:47,198 --> 00:58:48,198
I was still in college.

1182
00:58:48,198 --> 00:58:52,198
And I remember doing these things by hand, man, on a piece of paper and all of that.

1183
00:58:52,198 --> 00:58:54,198
That sounds terrible.

1184
00:58:54,198 --> 00:58:56,198
Well, there was no other way to learn about it.

1185
00:58:56,198 --> 00:58:58,198
And I really wanted to understand.

1186
00:58:58,198 --> 00:58:59,198
And I didn't even do them all.

1187
00:58:59,198 --> 00:59:00,198
It was crazy.

1188
00:59:00,198 --> 00:59:05,198
Yeah, well, that's why I think these types of things actually help the security of
Bitcoin

1189
00:59:05,198 --> 00:59:08,198
because they make it very difficult for any attacker.

1190
00:59:08,198 --> 00:59:10,198
They frustrate the attacker.

1191
00:59:10,198 --> 00:59:16,198
But yeah, but I guess it's just too big about having a hash calculator and Bitcoin.

1192
00:59:16,198 --> 00:59:17,198
It's just too much.

1193
00:59:17,198 --> 00:59:19,198
The bridge too far.

1194
00:59:19,198 --> 00:59:22,198
Look, as much as I like this thing.

1195
00:59:22,198 --> 00:59:26,198
Look, why don't you try to put an educational website up and put all these things
together?

1196
00:59:26,198 --> 00:59:27,198
Yeah, maybe I will.

1197
00:59:27,198 --> 00:59:29,198
Maybe we should do that.

1198
00:59:29,198 --> 00:59:30,198
Okay.

1199
00:59:30,198 --> 00:59:31,198
Maybe I will.

1200
00:59:31,198 --> 00:59:35,198
Oh, look, you put here in the show notes a link from Washington Post.

1201
00:59:35,198 --> 00:59:37,198
It asked me for money.

1202
00:59:37,198 --> 00:59:39,198
It asked me for fucking money, dude.

1203
00:59:39,198 --> 00:59:40,198
To read the article?

1204
00:59:40,198 --> 00:59:41,198
Yeah.

1205
00:59:41,198 --> 00:59:43,198
Okay, let me explain to you.

1206
00:59:43,198 --> 00:59:48,198
There is a Firefox plugin called Bypass Paywalls.

1207
00:59:48,198 --> 00:59:49,198
End of explanation.

1208
00:59:49,198 --> 00:59:50,198
That's all you need to know.

1209
00:59:50,198 --> 00:59:52,198
Just install the plugin.

1210
00:59:52,198 --> 00:59:56,198
And it just signs you into every media.

1211
00:59:56,198 --> 01:00:00,198
Okay, so that's just part of what you get on the show.

1212
01:00:00,198 --> 01:00:05,198
Paul's wacky websites and Firefox plugin ideas.

1213
01:00:05,198 --> 01:00:07,198
Do you understand what I'm saying?

1214
01:00:07,198 --> 01:00:10,198
If you just put the plugin in, it just signs you in.

1215
01:00:10,198 --> 01:00:11,198
Right.

1216
01:00:11,198 --> 01:00:12,198
Okay.

1217
01:00:12,198 --> 01:00:13,198
The funny thing is, okay, I will try to-

1218
01:00:13,198 --> 01:00:14,198
I can't install that plugin though.

1219
01:00:14,198 --> 01:00:15,198
I'll tell you why.

1220
01:00:15,198 --> 01:00:16,198
Oh, okay.

1221
01:00:16,198 --> 01:00:19,198
Because you didn't run a full node of it.

1222
01:00:19,198 --> 01:00:22,198
No, well, they're all open source, by the way.

1223
01:00:22,198 --> 01:00:27,198
All plugins are open source, if I'm not mistaken, on Chrome and Firefox.

1224
01:00:27,198 --> 01:00:28,198
Is that incorrect?

1225
01:00:28,198 --> 01:00:29,198
I don't know.

1226
01:00:29,198 --> 01:00:30,198
How could I know that?

1227
01:00:30,198 --> 01:00:34,198
What, the status of every plugin ever written for those browsers?

1228
01:00:34,198 --> 01:00:36,198
No, I think there's a way you can look at the code.

1229
01:00:36,198 --> 01:00:37,198
There's a policy.

1230
01:00:37,198 --> 01:00:38,198
Yeah, I think so.

1231
01:00:38,198 --> 01:00:40,198
Anyway, what's the post about?

1232
01:00:40,198 --> 01:00:41,198
What's the article about?

1233
01:00:41,198 --> 01:00:47,198
The post is just, I don't know if it's, the teacher's either a genius or they're
crazy.

1234
01:00:47,198 --> 01:00:48,198
Explain the post.

1235
01:00:48,198 --> 01:00:49,198
I didn't read it.

1236
01:00:49,198 --> 01:00:56,198
The post is, there's like a high school teacher who's giving his students
cryptocurrency.

1237
01:00:56,198 --> 01:00:58,198
So here's a quote.

1238
01:00:58,198 --> 01:01:08,198
One of Pimienta's teachers, Pimienta is this, I don't know, like the nickname for
one of the students.

1239
01:01:08,198 --> 01:01:12,198
That's a Spanish for pepper or something, right?

1240
01:01:12,198 --> 01:01:15,198
Dude, what the fuck are you talking about?

1241
01:01:15,198 --> 01:01:16,198
I'm confused right now.

1242
01:01:16,198 --> 01:01:18,198
I'm just talking about things, okay?

1243
01:01:18,198 --> 01:01:19,198
Oh, my God.

1244
01:01:19,198 --> 01:01:25,198
Okay, one of Pimienta's teachers, Carlos Acevedo, my apologies, I can't pronounce
his name,

1245
01:01:25,198 --> 01:01:33,198
gave Pimienta and some of his classmates a special graduation gift, Zcash, a
cryptocurrency that launched in late 2016.

1246
01:01:34,198 --> 01:01:40,198
The story is just full of this guy giving away cryptocurrency to his students.

1247
01:01:40,198 --> 01:01:41,198
I have a question.

1248
01:01:41,198 --> 01:01:47,198
And he says stuff like, I maybe should have opened it so that I could read it
better,

1249
01:01:47,198 --> 01:01:54,198
but it's all about him trying to encourage them to get into the industry.

1250
01:01:54,198 --> 01:01:55,198
I have a question.

1251
01:01:55,198 --> 01:01:56,198
This is like stocks.

1252
01:01:56,198 --> 01:02:01,198
I see it as a way to make money, said Pimienta, who tracks crypto prices on his
phone

1253
01:02:01,198 --> 01:02:05,198
and debates with friends which virtual currency is likely to rise.

1254
01:02:05,198 --> 01:02:09,198
So the question is, is this a nightmare or is this success?

1255
01:02:09,198 --> 01:02:10,198
Oh, I see.

1256
01:02:10,198 --> 01:02:12,198
That's why I wanted to bring it up.

1257
01:02:12,198 --> 01:02:16,198
Like is this success or is this a nightmare?

1258
01:02:16,198 --> 01:02:20,198
I think it's a sign of the bull market beginning, so it's success.

1259
01:02:20,198 --> 01:02:23,198
I thought you were going to say so it's a nightmare.

1260
01:02:23,198 --> 01:02:26,198
Why would I think it's a nightmare if the bull market is starting up?

1261
01:02:26,198 --> 01:02:27,198
I don't know.

1262
01:02:27,198 --> 01:02:31,198
I just definitely teach all these readers about the Jack's wallet and all this
stuff.

1263
01:02:31,198 --> 01:02:35,198
It's a text message with their public key, similar to an accountant.

1264
01:02:35,198 --> 01:02:37,198
That sounds like so 2013.

1265
01:02:37,198 --> 01:02:40,198
See, this is where I get confused, though.

1266
01:02:40,198 --> 01:02:44,198
Okay, Morris, a public high school is in the poorest congressional district in the
United States.

1267
01:02:44,198 --> 01:02:46,198
Almost every student receives free lunch.

1268
01:02:46,198 --> 01:02:49,198
The student body is one quarter African-American, three quarters Hispanic.

1269
01:02:49,198 --> 01:02:51,198
I don't know why that's relevant, whoever wrote this article.

1270
01:02:52,198 --> 01:02:55,198
It's kind of a weird thing to say right after that.

1271
01:02:55,198 --> 01:02:59,198
But the point is, that's not where I was going.

1272
01:02:59,198 --> 01:03:08,198
I wanted to say the part about poorest congressional district in the United States
because is this like lambs being led to the slaughter?

1273
01:03:08,198 --> 01:03:13,198
Or is this like these people will be the next, you know, super wealthy?

1274
01:03:13,198 --> 01:03:20,198
I can see it being really great, and I can see it being like a horrible disaster,
and I don't know how to feel that.

1275
01:03:20,198 --> 01:03:22,198
I think this is a piece that's supposed to get attention.

1276
01:03:22,198 --> 01:03:29,198
I think if it would go down there and we would see what's happening, it's probably a
bit more different than someone just wrote a piece about it in Washington Post.

1277
01:03:29,198 --> 01:03:31,198
And there's like, oh, let's make it like this.

1278
01:03:31,198 --> 01:03:33,198
I don't think it's like as prevalent as you may think.

1279
01:03:33,198 --> 01:03:35,198
I think it's an isolated incident.

1280
01:03:35,198 --> 01:03:40,198
And they made it like these poor kids, da-da-da-da, and they're getting like
Bitcoin.

1281
01:03:40,198 --> 01:03:43,198
They're being inspired to learn through crypto.

1282
01:03:43,198 --> 01:03:44,198
Yeah, I don't know.

1283
01:03:44,198 --> 01:03:50,198
I mean these guys are probably going to – I don't know who they are, but they're
probably trying to score some weed in the dark in the market or something like that.

1284
01:03:50,198 --> 01:03:57,198
And, you know, they think it's like – I mean, yeah, you know, I don't judge people
on things like that.

1285
01:03:57,198 --> 01:04:01,198
I judge them the opposite direction.

1286
01:04:01,198 --> 01:04:03,198
I do judge people.

1287
01:04:03,198 --> 01:04:05,198
Okay, this is a funny one.

1288
01:04:05,198 --> 01:04:07,198
This is another quote that I wanted to say.

1289
01:04:07,198 --> 01:04:20,198
This first assignment for the students – this is the teacher – this summer is to set
up their own store on a site called Open Bazaar, which is similar to eBay, but which
accepts more than 50 cryptocurrencies as payment for items.

1290
01:04:20,198 --> 01:04:25,198
So this is like – I know like Brian Hoffman.

1291
01:04:25,198 --> 01:04:32,198
So when you see it in a Washington Post article, it's always like really fun, but
then it's like what is this?

1292
01:04:32,198 --> 01:04:34,198
What is going on?

1293
01:04:34,198 --> 01:04:40,198
He doesn't care what the students sell, artwork, babysitting services, or old
clothes, but he wants them to become mini-entrepreneurs.

1294
01:04:40,198 --> 01:04:42,198
He told them he'll be their first customer.

1295
01:04:42,198 --> 01:04:45,198
So you see why it's funny.

1296
01:04:45,198 --> 01:04:47,198
Is this a good idea or is this horrible?

1297
01:04:47,198 --> 01:04:48,198
It's cringe-worthy.

1298
01:04:48,198 --> 01:04:51,198
By the way, I want to say something.

1299
01:04:51,198 --> 01:04:57,198
I think when this article came out, Brian and his fucking guys, they probably threw
a party.

1300
01:04:57,198 --> 01:04:59,198
Like no one – it's crickets.

1301
01:04:59,198 --> 01:05:02,198
Crickets since 2014 on that project.

1302
01:05:02,198 --> 01:05:03,198
I know.

1303
01:05:03,198 --> 01:05:04,198
Crickets.

1304
01:05:04,198 --> 01:05:06,198
They finally hit press.

1305
01:05:06,198 --> 01:05:08,198
You know what I suspect?

1306
01:05:08,198 --> 01:05:11,198
He paid them to write the article.

1307
01:05:11,198 --> 01:05:18,198
I think he went to the school dressed up like a teacher and he's doing this to
promote his – yeah, I think that's what happened.

1308
01:05:18,198 --> 01:05:24,198
Or it's like the – isn't there like an Obi-Wan token or something?

1309
01:05:24,198 --> 01:05:27,198
Like maybe the teacher owns the token.

1310
01:05:27,198 --> 01:05:29,198
How the fuck they survived?

1311
01:05:29,198 --> 01:05:31,198
Who the fuck invested money in that dumb project?

1312
01:05:31,198 --> 01:05:32,198
That's what I'm curious.

1313
01:05:32,198 --> 01:05:33,198
We should have him on.

1314
01:05:33,198 --> 01:05:34,198
I'm sure he'll come on.

1315
01:05:34,198 --> 01:05:36,198
He's got a great sense of humor.

1316
01:05:36,198 --> 01:05:37,198
You remember his old videos?

1317
01:05:37,198 --> 01:05:38,198
They were so funny.

1318
01:05:38,198 --> 01:05:39,198
Oh, my God.

1319
01:05:39,198 --> 01:05:40,198
I loved it.

1320
01:05:40,198 --> 01:05:42,198
He was like – you know when Mike in Space did his thing with a car?

1321
01:05:42,198 --> 01:05:43,198
Yeah, of course.

1322
01:05:43,198 --> 01:05:44,198
This was kind of that thing.

1323
01:05:44,198 --> 01:05:45,198
Those voiceovers were incredible.

1324
01:05:45,198 --> 01:05:46,198
They were so funny.

1325
01:05:46,198 --> 01:05:47,198
Yeah.

1326
01:05:47,198 --> 01:05:51,198
And some of the – and many of them have been taken down from YouTube, but he still
has them.

1327
01:05:51,198 --> 01:05:52,198
They've got to get the backups.

1328
01:05:52,198 --> 01:05:53,198
We should try to get the backups.

1329
01:05:53,198 --> 01:05:57,198
One of my favorite ones, the one – there were so many that were good.

1330
01:05:57,198 --> 01:05:58,198
There was a great Blockstream one.

1331
01:05:58,198 --> 01:06:01,198
There was Peter Todd looks for love on Tinder.

1332
01:06:01,198 --> 01:06:02,198
It was so funny.

1333
01:06:02,198 --> 01:06:05,198
But the best one was like how Bitcoin works.

1334
01:06:05,198 --> 01:06:07,198
That one was taken down.

1335
01:06:07,198 --> 01:06:08,198
We have to somehow get it back up.

1336
01:06:08,198 --> 01:06:13,198
It was like all the – that makes the red card into a green card.

1337
01:06:13,198 --> 01:06:16,198
Like all these like shapes, and then cards go everywhere.

1338
01:06:16,198 --> 01:06:19,198
And it was like so funny.

1339
01:06:19,198 --> 01:06:22,198
We can't explain it easily.

1340
01:06:22,198 --> 01:06:25,198
I didn't – you know what?

1341
01:06:25,198 --> 01:06:27,198
Like Ryan was really nice, and when he went on Bitcoin –

1342
01:06:27,198 --> 01:06:29,198
The scaling one, it was so funny.

1343
01:06:29,198 --> 01:06:31,198
That one was so funny.

1344
01:06:31,198 --> 01:06:35,198
Anyway, the point is that the thing what happened with them, they kind of went on
the BK side

1345
01:06:35,198 --> 01:06:38,198
because they got some money or something or some sponsoring.

1346
01:06:38,198 --> 01:06:40,198
And that's when people started hating him, like literally.

1347
01:06:40,198 --> 01:06:42,198
They forgot about him.

1348
01:06:42,198 --> 01:06:44,198
And yeah, he was like a really interesting character.

1349
01:06:44,198 --> 01:06:46,198
I remember when he went on Bitcoin Uncensored.

1350
01:06:46,198 --> 01:06:48,198
I do.

1351
01:06:48,198 --> 01:06:50,198
Dude, I was in Taiwan back then.

1352
01:06:50,198 --> 01:06:52,198
And I was walking around Taiwan.

1353
01:06:52,198 --> 01:06:54,198
I was in this weird place.

1354
01:06:54,198 --> 01:06:58,198
Anyway, and I put a thing on, and I listen even now to it.

1355
01:06:58,198 --> 01:07:01,198
And I'm listening to that podcast with them.

1356
01:07:01,198 --> 01:07:02,198
And I got to give it to him.

1357
01:07:02,198 --> 01:07:04,198
They attacked all his points.

1358
01:07:04,198 --> 01:07:07,198
And for someone who was attacked so much, and he was saying some dumb things,

1359
01:07:07,198 --> 01:07:09,198
he came out pretty nice out of it.

1360
01:07:09,198 --> 01:07:10,198
You know what I'm trying to say?

1361
01:07:10,198 --> 01:07:14,198
No, he's like a psychologically normal person honestly, which is –

1362
01:07:14,198 --> 01:07:16,198
That's not a compliment.

1363
01:07:16,198 --> 01:07:17,198
That's all you get.

1364
01:07:17,198 --> 01:07:21,198
That's all you can hope for in the Bitcoin world.

1365
01:07:21,198 --> 01:07:23,198
And a good sense of humor.

1366
01:07:23,198 --> 01:07:25,198
He has a good sense of humor.

1367
01:07:25,198 --> 01:07:26,198
Terrible project.

1368
01:07:26,198 --> 01:07:27,198
Awful project.

1369
01:07:27,198 --> 01:07:28,198
Well, everyone warned him.

1370
01:07:28,198 --> 01:07:29,198
They were like this is –

1371
01:07:29,198 --> 01:07:32,198
Weaver, Junseth even said,

1372
01:07:32,198 --> 01:07:36,198
all you will do is compete with Google even if you succeed.

1373
01:07:36,198 --> 01:07:39,198
That's basically like what happens, is it not?

1374
01:07:39,198 --> 01:07:40,198
Yeah, I don't know.

1375
01:07:40,198 --> 01:07:41,198
I just think like –

1376
01:07:41,198 --> 01:07:45,198
I remember when there were posts on Reddit 2013 early,

1377
01:07:45,198 --> 01:07:48,198
and people were saying like open bazaar, the new thing, da-da-da-da-da.

1378
01:07:48,198 --> 01:07:50,198
In the meanwhile, dark markets came about,

1379
01:07:50,198 --> 01:07:55,198
and those are actually the real things to look at for this type of commerce.

1380
01:07:55,198 --> 01:07:59,198
But maybe there's going to be another –

1381
01:07:59,198 --> 01:08:03,198
The thing is I don't know why you need your store to be censorship resistant.

1382
01:08:03,198 --> 01:08:04,198
That's what I –

1383
01:08:04,198 --> 01:08:05,198
Right, because you can just post on –

1384
01:08:05,198 --> 01:08:08,198
You can just like on Craigslist or on anything and just say,

1385
01:08:08,198 --> 01:08:10,198
I am selling my car.

1386
01:08:10,198 --> 01:08:11,198
I will take Bitcoin.

1387
01:08:11,198 --> 01:08:14,198
I would say I'm selling my car for $200 US, but if you –

1388
01:08:14,198 --> 01:08:15,198
I can accept Bitcoin.

1389
01:08:15,198 --> 01:08:16,198
But you have to –

1390
01:08:16,198 --> 01:08:17,198
But you know what though?

1391
01:08:17,198 --> 01:08:18,198
And then we talked about it.

1392
01:08:18,198 --> 01:08:22,198
So like back in the day, people were really receptive to crazy ideas,

1393
01:08:22,198 --> 01:08:26,198
and I think this really talked to this whole narrative of everything being native
and connected,

1394
01:08:26,198 --> 01:08:30,198
and that's why a lot of people felt it was an interesting thing.

1395
01:08:30,198 --> 01:08:32,198
But I have a question for you.

1396
01:08:32,198 --> 01:08:35,198
What's your take on the Bit2CPay server?

1397
01:08:35,198 --> 01:08:43,198
Oh, that's a good question because I don't understand what it does, to be honest
with you.

1398
01:08:43,198 --> 01:08:46,198
It's supposed to be competing with BitPay, right?

1399
01:08:46,198 --> 01:08:48,198
But BitPay, it's supposed to be like –

1400
01:08:48,198 --> 01:08:50,198
Well, I know a lot of the context.

1401
01:08:50,198 --> 01:08:52,198
I know that my faith –

1402
01:08:52,198 --> 01:08:53,198
I trust in you.

1403
01:08:53,198 --> 01:08:54,198
This is lies.

1404
01:08:54,198 --> 01:08:55,198
My faith in you is broken.

1405
01:08:55,198 --> 01:08:57,198
I will make you obsolete or whatever.

1406
01:08:57,198 --> 01:08:58,198
I will obsolete you.

1407
01:08:58,198 --> 01:08:59,198
Yeah.

1408
01:08:59,198 --> 01:09:00,198
Yes.

1409
01:09:00,198 --> 01:09:01,198
So I know a lot of context.

1410
01:09:01,198 --> 01:09:06,198
But surely the point of BitPay is there's like customer service number you can call.

1411
01:09:06,198 --> 01:09:07,198
There's like salespeople.

1412
01:09:07,198 --> 01:09:08,198
There's like a brand.

1413
01:09:08,198 --> 01:09:17,198
But this is supposed to replace that with an open source like cash register software
thing.

1414
01:09:17,198 --> 01:09:22,198
But I think certainly there's more to BitPay than just software.

1415
01:09:22,198 --> 01:09:23,198
That's what I would think.

1416
01:09:23,198 --> 01:09:25,198
Oh, there 100% is.

1417
01:09:25,198 --> 01:09:27,198
So that's why I don't understand what's going on at all.

1418
01:09:27,198 --> 01:09:29,198
So maybe you can explain it to me.

1419
01:09:29,198 --> 01:09:31,198
Well, they're trying to compete.

1420
01:09:31,198 --> 01:09:33,198
They're trying to compete also.

1421
01:09:33,198 --> 01:09:35,198
And that vertical also.

1422
01:09:35,198 --> 01:09:36,198
They have the Telegram group.

1423
01:09:36,198 --> 01:09:38,198
Someone always helps you and whatever.

1424
01:09:38,198 --> 01:09:41,198
And I think that's a good idea and it's good intentions.

1425
01:09:41,198 --> 01:09:43,198
But I just don't see how it could work.

1426
01:09:43,198 --> 01:09:48,198
And I really feel like everyone, like the pitch is like, you can use BTC Pay server.

1427
01:09:48,198 --> 01:09:50,198
And small businesses can accept Bitcoin right now.

1428
01:09:50,198 --> 01:09:52,198
And I'm like, well, that doesn't solve –

1429
01:09:52,198 --> 01:09:56,198
that solves some of the problem, which is the checkout button on their website.

1430
01:09:56,198 --> 01:10:00,198
BitPay would give them cash like the next day.

1431
01:10:00,198 --> 01:10:03,198
It would put cash in their bank account the next day.

1432
01:10:03,198 --> 01:10:05,198
So that was like the whole point of BitPay.

1433
01:10:06,198 --> 01:10:10,198
It was like a no-brainer for the merchant because they're getting killed with credit
card fees.

1434
01:10:10,198 --> 01:10:12,198
And they just said, well, this thing is super, super low fee.

1435
01:10:12,198 --> 01:10:16,198
And for a while they were even doing something where it was like zero fees

1436
01:10:16,198 --> 01:10:20,198
for the first like million dollars of transaction processing or something.

1437
01:10:20,198 --> 01:10:22,198
Weren't they doing some kind of promotion like that?

1438
01:10:22,198 --> 01:10:23,198
I think so.

1439
01:10:23,198 --> 01:10:28,198
A merchant would get cash like it was either the next day or like a week or
something.

1440
01:10:28,198 --> 01:10:30,198
What BTC Pay is doing right now.

1441
01:10:30,198 --> 01:10:32,198
That's what BitPay was about.

1442
01:10:32,198 --> 01:10:34,198
It had nothing to do with software.

1443
01:10:34,198 --> 01:10:35,198
That's why I was confused.

1444
01:10:35,198 --> 01:10:36,198
Yeah, I know.

1445
01:10:36,198 --> 01:10:38,198
But the thing is like they are trying right now to –

1446
01:10:38,198 --> 01:10:41,198
they really care about having this open source spirit and whatever.

1447
01:10:41,198 --> 01:10:46,198
And what they're doing, they added this feature where you can connect your exchange
or something like that.

1448
01:10:46,198 --> 01:10:50,198
But I think what everyone is missing though – this is how crazy it is for me.

1449
01:10:50,198 --> 01:10:54,198
Everyone thinks that – all the people in Bitcoin, they think they're all like us.

1450
01:10:54,198 --> 01:10:56,198
Like they want to like open terminals and set up things.

1451
01:10:56,198 --> 01:10:58,198
They really don't understand that people do not want to do that.

1452
01:10:58,198 --> 01:11:03,198
They don't understand that even setting up an exchange account, it's torture.

1453
01:11:03,198 --> 01:11:04,198
It's torture.

1454
01:11:04,198 --> 01:11:07,198
And even think about how hard it is to get an exchange account.

1455
01:11:07,198 --> 01:11:09,198
That's one of the worst accounts ever.

1456
01:11:09,198 --> 01:11:11,198
You have to do all this KYC.

1457
01:11:11,198 --> 01:11:12,198
It's harder than getting a bank account.

1458
01:11:12,198 --> 01:11:13,198
It is.

1459
01:11:13,198 --> 01:11:15,198
I think you may be right about that.

1460
01:11:15,198 --> 01:11:16,198
It's torture.

1461
01:11:16,198 --> 01:11:18,198
It 100% is.

1462
01:11:18,198 --> 01:11:20,198
And I don't know.

1463
01:11:20,198 --> 01:11:23,198
They're also one of those projects which everyone really likes a lot.

1464
01:11:23,198 --> 01:11:25,198
But they're doing great work.

1465
01:11:25,198 --> 01:11:29,198
But I feel like they became this irrational fanboys in my round then.

1466
01:11:29,198 --> 01:11:31,198
And their product was meant to do this thing,

1467
01:11:31,198 --> 01:11:34,198
which I still think there was a healthy niche.

1468
01:11:34,198 --> 01:11:39,198
But now they started just putting shit in that thing, like just a lot of shit there.

1469
01:11:39,198 --> 01:11:40,198
That's not necessarily you.

1470
01:11:40,198 --> 01:11:41,198
What did they put in there?

1471
01:11:41,198 --> 01:11:44,198
I mean this is a common thing where there's no accountability.

1472
01:11:44,198 --> 01:11:47,198
It just goes off the rails with weird ideas.

1473
01:11:47,198 --> 01:11:48,198
Yeah.

1474
01:11:48,198 --> 01:11:50,198
And the thing is like when you look –

1475
01:11:50,198 --> 01:11:51,198
No, but like what?

1476
01:11:51,198 --> 01:11:53,198
You can't keep saying like what did they put in this?

1477
01:11:53,198 --> 01:11:54,198
I don't know.

1478
01:11:54,198 --> 01:11:56,198
They have a lot of lightning stuff.

1479
01:11:56,198 --> 01:11:58,198
I remember like trying to set up a wallet.

1480
01:11:58,198 --> 01:12:00,198
It's like it's crazy.

1481
01:12:00,198 --> 01:12:01,198
It works bad.

1482
01:12:01,198 --> 01:12:03,198
There's too many buttons.

1483
01:12:03,198 --> 01:12:04,198
Yeah, I don't know.

1484
01:12:04,198 --> 01:12:07,198
It's just very – there's lack of focus if you ask me.

1485
01:12:07,198 --> 01:12:08,198
That's what it is.

1486
01:12:08,198 --> 01:12:12,198
And the thing is like no one dares to criticize them in any way

1487
01:12:12,198 --> 01:12:14,198
because they took on Big Pay.

1488
01:12:14,198 --> 01:12:16,198
And they kind of did, and there's merit to that.

1489
01:12:16,198 --> 01:12:20,198
But that doesn't mean that – it's like I could go and fight some evil monster.

1490
01:12:20,198 --> 01:12:22,198
That doesn't mean I'm going to win or my intentions are good.

1491
01:12:22,198 --> 01:12:24,198
I could trip over and fall down.

1492
01:12:24,198 --> 01:12:26,198
It doesn't mean I should get a pat on the back.

1493
01:12:26,198 --> 01:12:27,198
I don't know.

1494
01:12:27,198 --> 01:12:28,198
But yeah.

1495
01:12:28,198 --> 01:12:29,198
Yeah.

1496
01:12:29,198 --> 01:12:34,198
People say Big Pay is evil, but there was a time when Big Pay was great.

1497
01:12:34,198 --> 01:12:36,198
It was a great Bitcoin company.

1498
01:12:36,198 --> 01:12:37,198
Yeah, but they don't –

1499
01:12:37,198 --> 01:12:40,198
So I don't know if I update my Rolodex.

1500
01:12:40,198 --> 01:12:44,198
I know, but here's the thing is everyone is like, oh, Bitcoin is –

1501
01:12:44,198 --> 01:12:47,198
so many smart people here, it's a meritocracy,

1502
01:12:47,198 --> 01:12:54,198
and then it's like anyone who disagrees is cast out.

1503
01:12:54,198 --> 01:12:55,198
You're right.

1504
01:12:55,198 --> 01:12:56,198
There's a certain disagreement.

1505
01:12:56,198 --> 01:13:00,198
So it's kind of like, oh, okay.

1506
01:13:00,198 --> 01:13:01,198
You're very right.

1507
01:13:01,198 --> 01:13:02,198
There's a certain disagreement.

1508
01:13:02,198 --> 01:13:05,198
I know, but they do hate – what was that thing called, the payment protocol?

1509
01:13:05,198 --> 01:13:08,198
It was like horrible, and just like literally everyone hated it.

1510
01:13:08,198 --> 01:13:13,198
And I knew people who were like really talented, and they were like,

1511
01:13:13,198 --> 01:13:15,198
can you help me get a job?

1512
01:13:15,198 --> 01:13:17,198
And I was like, oh, what about Big Pay?

1513
01:13:17,198 --> 01:13:19,198
They would probably pay you a lot of money.

1514
01:13:19,198 --> 01:13:23,198
And they're like, oh, I just hate that payment protocol then.

1515
01:13:24,198 --> 01:13:30,198
I don't want to work there because the payment protocol is terrible though.

1516
01:13:30,198 --> 01:13:32,198
I don't know how to fix it.

1517
01:13:32,198 --> 01:13:37,198
I feel bad not being constructive, but using it was horrible.

1518
01:13:37,198 --> 01:13:39,198
Do you remember there was this website which was like –

1519
01:13:39,198 --> 01:13:41,198
because you couldn't get an address.

1520
01:13:41,198 --> 01:13:43,198
Yeah, because you could like – you're right.

1521
01:13:43,198 --> 01:13:48,198
What was horrible about it was that I couldn't just type in the stuff

1522
01:13:48,198 --> 01:13:50,198
in a normal language and just say everything.

1523
01:13:50,198 --> 01:13:53,198
How is that different than BIP-47 though?

1524
01:13:53,198 --> 01:13:54,198
It is.

1525
01:13:54,198 --> 01:13:56,198
BIP-47, everything is.

1526
01:13:56,198 --> 01:13:57,198
Everything you could decode.

1527
01:13:57,198 --> 01:13:59,198
Yeah, exactly right.

1528
01:13:59,198 --> 01:14:04,198
So you could, and if you want, you can take out this chain code,

1529
01:14:04,198 --> 01:14:11,198
and I don't know why you would ever want to do that.

1530
01:14:11,198 --> 01:14:15,198
But yeah, what was the problem with people typing things in wrong

1531
01:14:15,198 --> 01:14:16,198
and not sending the exact amount?

1532
01:14:16,198 --> 01:14:20,198
That was like the problem with – that was their issue with –

1533
01:14:20,198 --> 01:14:22,198
they said people would make errors.

1534
01:14:22,198 --> 01:14:25,198
The problem was that almost no one implemented it,

1535
01:14:25,198 --> 01:14:27,198
and you couldn't like copy – you couldn't like do it properly.

1536
01:14:27,198 --> 01:14:33,198
No, but I'm saying why did they want to push the payment protocol so badly

1537
01:14:33,198 --> 01:14:35,198
when it was like 80%?

1538
01:14:35,198 --> 01:14:36,198
You know what I think happened?

1539
01:14:36,198 --> 01:14:38,198
I think that they had this meeting, and there were a lot of people

1540
01:14:38,198 --> 01:14:40,198
who didn't know what they were talking about, and it seemed like a good idea,

1541
01:14:40,198 --> 01:14:42,198
but no one had any practical experience.

1542
01:14:42,198 --> 01:14:45,198
That's too dismissive though because I think they really were having

1543
01:14:45,198 --> 01:14:47,198
problems with fraud and like complaints.

1544
01:14:47,198 --> 01:14:50,198
So they were like, okay, if we just make this thing,

1545
01:14:50,198 --> 01:14:52,198
it'll just be this button that they'll click.

1546
01:14:52,198 --> 01:14:54,198
How the fuck do you have fraud on Bitcoin?

1547
01:14:54,198 --> 01:14:58,198
Because I think what they do is they send – they have a typo in the amount sent

1548
01:14:58,198 --> 01:15:00,198
or something, and then it doesn't show up.

1549
01:15:00,818 --> 01:15:03,778
The amount sent or something, and then it doesn't show up quite the right way. There

1550
01:15:03,778 --> 01:15:09,298
was like some reason for it. Do you know what I mean, what I'm saying? Like they say
you

1551
01:15:09,298 --> 01:15:12,458
have to send this within 15 minutes, and you have to send this exact amount to this
exact

1552
01:15:12,458 --> 01:15:17,938
address. Yes, exactly. And so people would send slightly the wrong amount, or they'd

1553
01:15:17,938 --> 01:15:22,458
round up or something. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It would just start like that.
Also

1554
01:15:22,458 --> 01:15:25,098
with the fee thing, right? Because you have to – some wallets you would have to like

1555
01:15:25,098 --> 01:15:28,698
put in the fee and whatever. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that's what they were
trying

1556
01:15:28,698 --> 01:15:33,458
to react to. You may be right, actually. You may be right about that. I mean, they
must

1557
01:15:33,458 --> 01:15:38,178
have been doing something because this was like the most hated thing ever. Well, do
you

1558
01:15:38,178 --> 01:15:42,098
remember when they came out with Copain, which was the only multisig wallet for a
while?

1559
01:15:42,098 --> 01:15:48,298
Yes. I think some people, most people liked it. That was the first good looking
Bitcoin

1560
01:15:48,298 --> 01:15:53,898
wallet, by the way. Think about it, mobile. Both platforms, iOS, Android, you have
to

1561
01:15:53,898 --> 01:15:58,658
recommend to someone which one it is. There you go. See, but in other words,
irredeemably

1562
01:15:58,658 --> 01:16:08,138
evil, and that's why BTCPay server has to burn it to its frame. I don't know. Again,

1563
01:16:08,138 --> 01:16:13,218
when there's like irrational fanboyism, you should like – you should just do
something

1564
01:16:13,218 --> 01:16:19,378
wrong there, right? Yeah. This is lies. I will destroy you, 3 million likes. No, I
really

1565
01:16:19,378 --> 01:16:24,858
like that. I like the attitude of like having a crazy motivation like this about
something.

1566
01:16:24,858 --> 01:16:30,058
I really love that, right? And I just think the project lost a bit of focus. That's

1567
01:16:30,058 --> 01:16:34,498
it. I think even if they have this tiny niche of building the best Bitcoin checkout
button,

1568
01:16:34,498 --> 01:16:39,178
I still think there's a niche there. Yes, yes. I think that's fine. Yes, I agree
with

1569
01:16:39,178 --> 01:16:44,058
you completely. I think you're right about that. But now it became like this. Oh my
God,

1570
01:16:44,058 --> 01:16:50,338
you're saving everyone. It's like, come on. Thank God you rescued us from BitPay.

1571
01:16:50,338 --> 01:16:54,938
It's a fucking checkout button that connects with your hardware wall. Look, let's
not

1572
01:16:54,938 --> 01:16:59,098
start sucking each other's dick yet, okay? Let's take it easy. You know what I'm
trying

1573
01:16:59,098 --> 01:17:04,978
to say? Carlos Acevedo wants his students to learn how to build apps on the
blockchain,

1574
01:17:04,978 --> 01:17:11,098
the technology underpinning cryptocurrency. Okay, what else do we have here? I don't

1575
01:17:11,098 --> 01:17:13,978
know what else we can talk about. Do we have anything good? We didn't have anything
good

1576
01:17:13,978 --> 01:17:21,458
this week. Oh, yet another week. Oh, Taproot. Why did we talk about this? It's a
very important

1577
01:17:21,458 --> 01:17:29,258
thing. Okay, what about it? Okay, this guy is complaining about privacy, but it's
totally

1578
01:17:29,258 --> 01:17:36,418
unclear whether or not the complaint is legitimate or it's all ego driven or
whatever. I saw

1579
01:17:36,418 --> 01:17:39,898
this thing like pop up in the Twitter feed. I don't know what the fuck this guy is
talking

1580
01:17:39,938 --> 01:17:44,538
about. I don't understand. Okay, I can explain it, I think, if it's what I think it
is. You

1581
01:17:44,538 --> 01:17:50,178
know, because there's a lot of people complaining about this and that all the time.
But I will

1582
01:17:50,178 --> 01:17:55,458
paste it so that I can see it. Yeah, this guy is, who's this guy? This is some kind

1583
01:17:55,458 --> 01:18:02,578
of academic or something. Occasionally teaching blockchain at local universities. He
is lead

1584
01:18:02,578 --> 01:18:08,858
developer at BlockChair. He has a unicorn in his description. For me, that's just
like,

1585
01:18:08,858 --> 01:18:15,018
okay, bye. But anyway, go on. Yeah, I think that's probably wise. Anyway, his
complaint is

1586
01:18:15,018 --> 01:18:22,298
there's yet another type. And so when you spend your wallet is biased toward keeping
you

1587
01:18:22,298 --> 01:18:31,858
within a type. So this would create like yet another kind of output format. He says
address

1588
01:18:31,858 --> 01:18:40,018
format, but that's not as we've just explained. That is not an accurate way of but
sure,

1589
01:18:40,058 --> 01:18:46,018
whatever. The point is, on the blockchain stuff will look different whether or not
it is tap

1590
01:18:46,018 --> 01:18:51,498
root or not. And it already looks different if it's SegWit or not. So his point is,
as you do

1591
01:18:51,498 --> 01:18:55,978
this, there will just be all these things that look very different. And it will be
easier to

1592
01:18:56,658 --> 01:19:04,058
track which payments are to you and which are change addresses and other things like
that,

1593
01:19:05,018 --> 01:19:09,978
according to him. So it actually has nothing specific to do with Taproot at all of
it would

1594
01:19:09,978 --> 01:19:17,578
apply his argument would apply to any new whatever you want to call this, I guess
you would

1595
01:19:17,578 --> 01:19:19,458
call it a script template.

1596
01:19:19,658 --> 01:19:23,858
I mean, well, the same thing could be said about even like wallets because different
wallets do

1597
01:19:23,858 --> 01:19:27,698
different like, you know, you can see a transaction was made by certain if you look
really

1598
01:19:27,698 --> 01:19:33,818
hard. Yes, unfortunately, but I think mostly there's been more progress on that.
Yeah, it has

1599
01:19:33,818 --> 01:19:38,658
been recently. Yeah, they should all standardize on something for their own mutual
benefit.

1600
01:19:40,738 --> 01:19:48,658
There should just be one way of doing everything for every wallet for just a simple

1601
01:19:48,658 --> 01:19:58,938
transaction. Anyway, I don't know. When he uses caps lock also that makes me think
that he is a

1602
01:19:58,938 --> 01:20:09,418
nut. You know, taproot has to be stopped all caps. I don't know. Anyway, the funny
thing,

1603
01:20:09,418 --> 01:20:15,698
though, is that taproot actually fits all these other different scripts temp or
tries to it

1604
01:20:15,698 --> 01:20:21,098
doesn't necessarily succeed. But through that thing mast we talked about last week,
it tries to

1605
01:20:21,098 --> 01:20:30,618
fit all of the different new types into just one type. So it kind of actually aims
to improve

1606
01:20:30,618 --> 01:20:36,858
privacy. But it's like it's like when you have we'll have this one new version that
will be

1607
01:20:36,898 --> 01:20:41,098
compatible. This is like the XKCV comic. You know what I'm talking about? There's 14
different

1608
01:20:41,098 --> 01:20:45,138
versions. And he says, well, we need this new version that does everything. And it's
like now

1609
01:20:45,138 --> 01:20:50,738
there's 15 versions. Yeah, so this is kind of like that, except it's, I don't know
how you would

1610
01:20:50,738 --> 01:20:58,458
count them all. But this is like a new version to fix all the other versions. So
this is a little

1611
01:20:58,458 --> 01:20:59,258
bit like that.

1612
01:20:59,498 --> 01:21:03,538
Regarding the privacy argument, isn't like with Schnorr and his things, you could
like have

1613
01:21:03,538 --> 01:21:07,898
multiple people behind the signature and whatever. So isn't that like a trade off?

1614
01:21:08,818 --> 01:21:16,498
Schnorr would, I think, improve privacy quite a bit, because it would make a
CoinJoin cheaper than

1615
01:21:16,498 --> 01:21:21,658
a regular transaction. And this gives you a pretext for using CoinJoin.

1616
01:21:22,018 --> 01:21:23,098
What's your take on CoinJoin?

1617
01:21:23,098 --> 01:21:31,618
I think without the pretext, it's hard. Everything with privacy needs a pretext for
using it. So, in

1618
01:21:31,658 --> 01:21:44,058
other words, anything that aims to increase privacy must have some reason other than
privacy for

1619
01:21:44,058 --> 01:21:44,618
using it.

1620
01:21:45,698 --> 01:21:47,458
I don't follow. I don't think I really...

1621
01:21:47,458 --> 01:21:54,218
Because you need, when the government says that that's a suspicious thing, you need
to be able to

1622
01:21:54,218 --> 01:22:00,018
say, no, it's just cheaper, or it's just that's how my, whatever it needs to be. You
need some

1623
01:22:00,018 --> 01:22:10,938
other reason. It needs to be a pretext for using it that is not privacy related. So
with Schnorr, now

1624
01:22:10,938 --> 01:22:15,258
you have it for CoinJoin, now you're in business. But before you don't. Before
CoinJoin, that's

1625
01:22:15,258 --> 01:22:21,578
only, that's what the terrorists do or whatever, the criminals. Just mix it with a
bunch of

1626
01:22:21,578 --> 01:22:27,338
criminals. But now if everyone does it, it's cheaper. And then in any individual
case, you know,

1627
01:22:27,338 --> 01:22:32,258
the judge calls you up and they say, hey, why'd you do this? You say, I don't know,
it's just my

1628
01:22:32,258 --> 01:22:35,618
software is doing this. And then they go to the software developer and the software
developer says

1629
01:22:35,618 --> 01:22:36,218
it's cheaper.

1630
01:22:37,458 --> 01:22:38,858
Right, right. I see what you're trying to say.

1631
01:22:39,818 --> 01:22:45,138
But every single privacy thing has to be that way. You can't just say, I'm going to
go around wearing a

1632
01:22:45,138 --> 01:22:50,538
ski mask and goggles, because it's the most private. People will be like, that is a
fucking

1633
01:22:50,538 --> 01:22:56,738
weirdo. And we need the police to, you know, beat him up and then ask him some
questions. So you see,

1634
01:22:56,738 --> 01:23:02,898
that's no good. You have to cast some kind of magic spell so that ski masks are in
fashion or

1635
01:23:02,898 --> 01:23:08,618
something. And everyone does it. Everyone wears it. It'd be cheaper to wear a ski
mask than show your

1636
01:23:08,618 --> 01:23:09,178
face.

1637
01:23:10,338 --> 01:23:11,498
Yeah, I see what you're trying to say.

1638
01:23:11,698 --> 01:23:17,018
So this is a crucial element of privacy that is often de-emphasized because there
are these

1639
01:23:18,018 --> 01:23:22,058
cryptographer mathematicians with their weird ideas that, you know, it won't matter
because

1640
01:23:22,098 --> 01:23:25,738
they'll be like, why did you use Zcash, the anonymous currency? You must be up to
something.

1641
01:23:26,138 --> 01:23:31,258
Are you familiar that a lot of, Adam Gibson talks about this quite a lot, about
stenographical coin

1642
01:23:31,258 --> 01:23:32,978
joins, which you can't tell they're coin joins.

1643
01:23:33,418 --> 01:23:36,858
Yeah, that's perfect. And then there's also pay join, right?

1644
01:23:37,058 --> 01:23:38,738
That's an example of this.

1645
01:23:39,098 --> 01:23:44,978
Yeah, so that stuff's great. Well, yeah. So that's the other thing is you could
have, it could, it

1646
01:23:44,978 --> 01:23:49,618
needs to, you either need the pretext or you need what, I just made this up. I don't
know if it,

1647
01:23:49,738 --> 01:23:57,538
maybe stenography is a better word, but it needs to be meta-private. In other words,
it needs to be

1648
01:23:57,538 --> 01:24:00,298
so private that no one can even tell that you're using the technique.

1649
01:24:00,818 --> 01:24:01,538
Yeah, yeah.

1650
01:24:01,578 --> 01:24:06,418
And then you have your pretext is that you didn't use it at all. And they can't
prove that you did.

1651
01:24:06,818 --> 01:24:11,818
So that's really folds into my thing about pretexts. But yeah, it could be more
expensive.

1652
01:24:12,458 --> 01:24:17,378
It could be no other reason to use it other than privacy. But as long as you have
your excuse, so

1653
01:24:17,978 --> 01:24:24,338
the ideal excuse is like, exactly, the ideal excuse is like it was cheaper or I had
to, I had no

1654
01:24:24,338 --> 01:24:31,178
choice. So if like the merchant forces you to do the most private thing. So those
are the best

1655
01:24:31,178 --> 01:24:36,378
pretexts. But you could also have one where you just say, I didn't use that. And
they can't prove

1656
01:24:36,378 --> 01:24:43,378
that you did. And now you have possible anonymity. So that's, those are, that's the
Paul Sztorc

1657
01:24:43,658 --> 01:24:47,538
privacy, you know, experience.

1658
01:24:48,858 --> 01:24:53,658
Yeah, well, stenography was actually exactly about this. And I heard Adam Gibson use
this word a

1659
01:24:53,658 --> 01:24:56,898
lot. I got it from him. I don't know. I don't know if he came up, but it doesn't
sound like

1660
01:24:56,938 --> 01:25:01,938
something invented. But that, there's a lot of effort going into that, like not
being able to see

1661
01:25:01,938 --> 01:25:06,858
their coindroins. Because that's the biggest problem with coindroins right now. It's
like, Oh, I

1662
01:25:06,858 --> 01:25:12,018
lost my taint. Yeah, but your coindroin tainted, which is worse than before, you
know?

1663
01:25:12,018 --> 01:25:19,178
Yeah, right. That's exactly what I mean. Yeah. So best thing though, if there were a
Zcash side

1664
01:25:19,178 --> 01:25:24,578
chain, you could really untaint because you'd send the coins there, and then they
all fuse into

1665
01:25:24,578 --> 01:25:32,938
this, this one output really. And then they come back. So they're like, and then you
can just send

1666
01:25:32,938 --> 01:25:38,298
the coins to yourself once you get them back. You can always, sending coins to
yourself is one of

1667
01:25:38,298 --> 01:25:45,218
the best privacy things ever. Because you can just say, I didn't coindroin. That was
some other

1668
01:25:45,218 --> 01:25:48,218
guy who gave me the coins. The guy before me.

1669
01:25:48,698 --> 01:25:53,218
Yeah. But if you're like in the, in front of a policeman or something like police,
you're going

1670
01:25:53,218 --> 01:25:54,738
to have to like be able to prove what I want.

1671
01:25:54,778 --> 01:25:59,258
The thing though, is when the way, just the way Drivechain works, the way most sidechains, I

1672
01:25:59,258 --> 01:26:07,778
think would work in practice, you, you don't actually do the long return. Second,
the peg out

1673
01:26:07,898 --> 01:26:14,458
thing, you'd swap with someone else. So there'd be what you would actually do is
send coins to the

1674
01:26:14,458 --> 01:26:24,418
Zcash sidechain, melt them down. And then someone like Eric Voorhees or Andreas or
whatever, they

1675
01:26:24,418 --> 01:26:29,538
would buy them up for 99 cents on the dollar over there in the secret world. And
they pay you out

1676
01:26:29,538 --> 01:26:36,818
with completely different bitcoins. And then they would walk them back slowly. So
then you would,

1677
01:26:36,858 --> 01:26:42,178
then you'd have like really completely untainted them, which that would just be
amazing.

1678
01:26:42,498 --> 01:26:45,178
How far away do you think that is like realistically happening?

1679
01:26:45,898 --> 01:26:50,698
Well, we already have a version of that, you know, we're testing that Zcash sidechain right now.

1680
01:26:50,778 --> 01:26:54,978
It's just because I'm too much of a perfectionist. Maybe I should release it until I
ask other people

1681
01:26:54,978 --> 01:26:55,858
to help test it.

1682
01:26:57,538 --> 01:27:02,418
I mean, working by yourself, I don't think that's gonna make things easier, but
harder. So yeah, I

1683
01:27:02,418 --> 01:27:02,778
don't know.

1684
01:27:05,098 --> 01:27:05,938
Yeah, maybe.

1685
01:27:07,978 --> 01:27:13,858
So what would, so once that's done, then the Drivechain is going to be live and
everyone can use it

1686
01:27:13,858 --> 01:27:14,338
and that's it.

1687
01:27:15,338 --> 01:27:20,498
Yeah, that's a good point is that because it's like testing everything at once with
Drivechain,

1688
01:27:20,498 --> 01:27:27,898
the sidechain template, Blind Merged Mining, and then the Zcash sidechain. So
sometimes, it's very

1689
01:27:27,898 --> 01:27:33,658
rare at this point, but sometimes you want to change one thing, you want to change
another thing.

1690
01:27:33,658 --> 01:27:41,458
So I wanted to make sure that it's, I don't like to bother people when the concrete
is too wet, you

1691
01:27:41,618 --> 01:27:47,378
know, I like it to be dry concrete before I invite people over.

1692
01:27:49,778 --> 01:27:52,938
Yeah, but you're not inviting people to live in your house, you're inviting people
to help you

1693
01:27:52,938 --> 01:27:58,218
build it. And once the concrete is hard, they can help you shape the concrete as
long as the

1694
01:27:58,218 --> 01:27:58,978
concrete is still wet.

1695
01:28:01,698 --> 01:28:04,258
I don't want it to be too wet, is what I'm saying.

1696
01:28:05,338 --> 01:28:09,698
Yeah, I don't know if that works for what you're trying. I have no clue. So yeah.

1697
01:28:09,858 --> 01:28:14,898
Anyway, um, yeah, I don't know when realistically, I don't know, I do think yeah,
probably January

1698
01:28:14,898 --> 01:28:16,818
1st, you'll see something out.

1699
01:28:17,698 --> 01:28:19,018
Really? That's not too far away.

1700
01:28:19,418 --> 01:28:21,978
Yeah. I mean, why not? As I said, we already have it.

1701
01:28:22,898 --> 01:28:29,418
Okay, that's just really interesting. All right. Well, I don't know what else we
have around

1702
01:28:29,418 --> 01:28:29,738
here.

1703
01:28:30,618 --> 01:28:36,418
Yeah, how cool is that? Buying, selling to some exchange like, you know, ShapeShift
or

1704
01:28:36,418 --> 01:28:42,858
SideShift on with Z transactions on a sidechain somewhere else. And then they would
give you

1705
01:28:42,898 --> 01:28:47,498
completely different BTC coins. That would be amazing.

1706
01:28:48,058 --> 01:28:51,418
I think that would be very interesting. And definitely would.

1707
01:28:51,618 --> 01:28:55,858
And they would do it, absolutely do it for like 99 cents. And maybe who knows what
they would

1708
01:28:55,858 --> 01:29:00,338
even charge you more than they charge you like 95 cents on the dollar. But that
would, but

1709
01:29:00,338 --> 01:29:04,858
people would pay because it would completely detain the coins. So 100%.

1710
01:29:05,098 --> 01:29:10,298
I mean, people are paying for coin joints on Wasabi and whatever, around 10%, right?
So this

1711
01:29:10,298 --> 01:29:14,618
should probably be even more expensive than that, because they actually work better,
right?

1712
01:29:15,658 --> 01:29:20,298
Their willingness to pay would be higher. But it also is the case that anyone could
supply this

1713
01:29:20,298 --> 01:29:26,778
service. So it's demand and supply. So demand would be higher. But if anyone can
supply, I

1714
01:29:26,778 --> 01:29:31,618
don't know, it may be easier to supply this type of thing than it is to supply
whatever is needed

1715
01:29:31,618 --> 01:29:41,858
to do coin joint. If you just had two competing exchanges, in fact, it would be bid
down as

1716
01:29:41,858 --> 01:29:47,178
close to 100 cents on the dollar as possible, right? You just have two exchanges,
each one of

1717
01:29:47,178 --> 01:29:51,258
them could do it. Yeah, there will be redeemed. Ultimately, they will be able to
redeem them if

1718
01:29:51,298 --> 01:29:52,938
assuming ThriveChain works at all.

1719
01:29:54,098 --> 01:29:58,418
You're very right. You're very right. Because the thing with coin joints, there's a
supply.

1720
01:29:59,138 --> 01:30:05,378
Yeah, it's not as available in all three models. In joint market is like, well, no,
actually, in

1721
01:30:05,378 --> 01:30:09,858
joint market, it does get very tight and almost you have to pay only the transaction
fees. But in

1722
01:30:09,858 --> 01:30:16,378
the other ones in Wasabi and Whirlpool, there's a time element to it. Yeah, you're
right.

1723
01:30:17,538 --> 01:30:24,218
So the issue is supply. It's not enough people can supply the other coins needed for
the privacy

1724
01:30:24,538 --> 01:30:30,978
construction. But that's an advantage of Zcash, whether a sidechain or not sidechain
is that once

1725
01:30:30,978 --> 01:30:38,898
you merge in to the Z world, it doesn't matter how when you do that, or how many
coins you have. So

1726
01:30:38,898 --> 01:30:40,938
you can just do that at any time in any amount.

1727
01:30:41,738 --> 01:30:47,578
I'm still not convinced about like, how good actually Zcash is. And I think they
have some

1728
01:30:47,578 --> 01:30:50,818
really, they made some weird trade offs there, which you do when you build that type
of a

1729
01:30:50,818 --> 01:30:55,818
project, mostly having to do with the verifiability of the supply. And I think
that's

1730
01:30:55,818 --> 01:30:56,258
true.

1731
01:30:56,298 --> 01:30:59,498
But that's, that's another thing, though, that's great about the sidechain version,
though,

1732
01:30:59,498 --> 01:31:05,738
because the sidechain version is immune. If there's inflation, it will just sink the
sidechain

1733
01:31:05,778 --> 01:31:11,378
and it won't get explained. Because the sidechain is only determining what happens
to the coins

1734
01:31:11,378 --> 01:31:16,498
that go in it. So on the regular Bitcoin world, there's some normal transaction that
looks

1735
01:31:16,498 --> 01:31:22,098
extremely confusing if you don't update, if you just don't take this off fork, and
you're just

1736
01:31:22,098 --> 01:31:27,658
watching. This transaction will look very strange to you, the Drivechain peg ins,
because

1737
01:31:27,658 --> 01:31:33,138
there will just be coins being linked into this one UTXO that will just get bigger
and bigger and

1738
01:31:33,138 --> 01:31:39,098
bigger, that will look like an anyone can spend, or will really look like is a
transaction to an

1739
01:31:39,098 --> 01:31:45,738
address where the private key is known. So to be like, why is I could take all this
money? Why

1740
01:31:45,738 --> 01:31:50,698
isn't anyone taking it? And the answer is that there's these extra software composed
rules, which

1741
01:31:50,698 --> 01:31:55,538
are the Drivechain rules, blocking you from doing that, right. But it looked like
all this, because

1742
01:31:55,538 --> 01:32:00,938
all this money is being threaded into one UTXO. So it's one, it's like a Bitcoin
address with like a

1743
01:32:01,178 --> 01:32:03,298
10 million coins in it or something.

1744
01:32:03,858 --> 01:32:07,058
I'm still missing the point on why this is actually not.

1745
01:32:07,858 --> 01:32:15,018
So when there's no way, even if all the Drivechain stuff were ignored, let's say
there's 100,000

1746
01:32:15,018 --> 01:32:20,178
coins in this output. Okay, you can never spend more than 100,000 BTC from there.

1747
01:32:20,218 --> 01:32:24,938
No, I get it. But like Zcash could have other problems with the total supply of
Zcash in the

1748
01:32:24,938 --> 01:32:29,018
world. And that can still affect me. That's what I'm trying to say. I don't know how
the Drivechain

1749
01:32:29,018 --> 01:32:29,538
solves that.

1750
01:32:30,778 --> 01:32:35,578
It would affect you if you had coins there at the time that it was exploited, you
would lose all of

1751
01:32:35,578 --> 01:32:36,258
your coins.

1752
01:32:36,458 --> 01:32:37,778
Right. So your argument is...

1753
01:32:37,978 --> 01:32:44,978
My argument is, it only is, it's firewalled into that one zone. And you as a user
can just, you go

1754
01:32:44,978 --> 01:32:51,058
through it for your privacy benefit, and then go back to saving on layer one. And so
the people

1755
01:32:51,058 --> 01:32:54,778
over there would be specialists, people who would be there, those would be the
exchange type

1756
01:32:54,778 --> 01:33:01,138
people, like, whatever, Eric Voorhees or Andreas Brecken. And they would be, since
they are the

1757
01:33:01,138 --> 01:33:06,618
ones accumulating these balances for a lengthy amount of time, they would be
specialists who

1758
01:33:06,618 --> 01:33:08,138
would have an incentive to look into it.

1759
01:33:08,618 --> 01:33:14,058
I understand this, but I got to understand it. But so the immune part that you're
talking about,

1760
01:33:14,258 --> 01:33:19,658
is just because there's like this isolated part of the blockchain reality, which
you're trying to

1761
01:33:19,658 --> 01:33:24,458
say is not affected by what other Zcash existing in the outside of this in the Zcash
chain. I

1762
01:33:24,458 --> 01:33:25,978
don't understand how that makes any sense.

1763
01:33:26,018 --> 01:33:32,818
I don't understand where you are. It's a problem for Zcash to altcoin. If someone
could print

1764
01:33:33,658 --> 01:33:40,778
counterfeit coins and start selling them, no one would know how, what happened. But
on the side

1765
01:33:40,778 --> 01:33:44,618
chain, I think you would know because it would, they would want to kill the side, it
would kill

1766
01:33:44,618 --> 01:33:48,898
the sidechain like immediately. And then you could start up the next sidechain
that would

1767
01:33:48,898 --> 01:33:50,178
have the problem fixed.

1768
01:33:50,338 --> 01:33:52,658
Oh, I see what you're trying to say. Okay, right.

1769
01:33:52,698 --> 01:33:58,818
But meanwhile, if none of that would affect people who just invested in BTC, they
would be

1770
01:33:58,858 --> 01:34:00,178
completely unaffected.

1771
01:34:00,418 --> 01:34:02,218
Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, I wasn't

1772
01:34:02,218 --> 01:34:07,378
That's very different from Zcash to altcoin, where if you want to buy in, you are
now

1773
01:34:07,498 --> 01:34:14,498
potentially sunk by this because they don't even mean they mean they may want to
credit you. You

1774
01:34:14,498 --> 01:34:18,738
know what I mean? But they may not even know if you haven't been see it. They may
like never be

1775
01:34:18,738 --> 01:34:21,578
able to get anyone their money back.

1776
01:34:22,258 --> 01:34:25,658
Yeah, no, I thought you were making a little bit better.

1777
01:34:26,138 --> 01:34:29,378
Yeah, yeah. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I thought you were making the argument that it
just

1778
01:34:29,378 --> 01:34:32,898
solves the whole problem for Zcash on its own. But it just doesn't, I couldn't

1779
01:34:32,898 --> 01:34:39,218
Right, it doesn't only when it's Zcash is mixed with sidechain concept is the
problem greatly

1780
01:34:39,218 --> 01:34:40,498
reduced for most people.

1781
01:34:41,138 --> 01:34:44,698
Yeah, exactly. Greatly reduced. That is the proper way to say it. Yeah, fair enough.

1782
01:34:47,178 --> 01:34:48,178
All right. Okay, great.

1783
01:34:48,778 --> 01:34:50,178
Okay, do we have other topics here?

1784
01:34:50,178 --> 01:34:51,458
I'm the CEO of a company right now.

1785
01:34:51,458 --> 01:34:52,778
You're the CEO of a company, you raised a hundred million.

1786
01:34:52,778 --> 01:34:53,818
They're being a hedge fund.

1787
01:34:53,898 --> 01:34:55,378
You're a CEO of a company right now, yeah?

1788
01:34:55,938 --> 01:34:57,338
Yeah, and I raised a hundred million.

1789
01:34:57,378 --> 01:35:02,658
And you're doing something strictly related to BTC, kind of, you're bringing the
hive

1790
01:35:02,658 --> 01:35:03,818
mind project. Let's just go.

1791
01:35:03,858 --> 01:35:07,538
Let's say the driving is your, yeah, and you could do it technically.

1792
01:35:07,538 --> 01:35:08,458
It's not no limited.

1793
01:35:08,778 --> 01:35:11,938
But I'm doing it through a company, which defeats the whole point.

1794
01:35:12,538 --> 01:35:13,498
I understand what you're saying.

1795
01:35:13,498 --> 01:35:16,738
I start with Blockstream 2.0 or something and I raise.

1796
01:35:17,338 --> 01:35:20,818
So you're telling me right now, how much of that money are you going to allocate
into

1797
01:35:20,818 --> 01:35:21,818
BTC?

1798
01:35:21,818 --> 01:35:27,658
I'm honestly telling you that I'm not sure that it's, I would, you know, it would
depend

1799
01:35:27,658 --> 01:35:33,258
on the investors. I can see myself allocating none because it's not, because I could
tell

1800
01:35:33,258 --> 01:35:38,138
the investors, you should, you should invest your own money in BTC.

1801
01:35:38,178 --> 01:35:42,618
But this is not, I'm saying this is not, I'm not running a hedge fund for you.

1802
01:35:43,138 --> 01:35:46,138
Or am I? If they say run a hedge fund, then I'll run a hedge fund for them.

1803
01:35:46,258 --> 01:35:50,138
But then I'll make all kinds of investments, but that would mostly be BTC.

1804
01:35:51,858 --> 01:35:52,978
See, you understand what I'm saying?

1805
01:35:53,018 --> 01:35:54,698
Yeah. And I think you're very wrong about it.

1806
01:35:54,898 --> 01:35:57,258
I think you have this, again, what do you think is wrong about it?

1807
01:35:57,338 --> 01:36:02,498
I think is that you are a guy who has exposure to the greatest assets in the time.

1808
01:36:02,498 --> 01:36:05,898
You even know probably more than most of the people I fucking know.

1809
01:36:05,978 --> 01:36:08,338
And I know most of the people that do things right.

1810
01:36:08,538 --> 01:36:14,138
And even with all this information in front of you, I know I would tell them they
should

1811
01:36:14,138 --> 01:36:15,898
invest their own money in BTC.

1812
01:36:15,898 --> 01:36:17,818
No, because there should be no paperwork about it.

1813
01:36:17,818 --> 01:36:19,098
No, you don't understand.

1814
01:36:19,218 --> 01:36:23,258
When the people invest in the company, they invest in you and you need to have some

1815
01:36:23,258 --> 01:36:26,938
guess. And they say like, dude, you put this guess, however you think it makes
sense.

1816
01:36:26,938 --> 01:36:28,538
That's why people invest in companies, dude.

1817
01:36:28,698 --> 01:36:30,658
They don't invest in companies, they invest in specific people.

1818
01:36:30,658 --> 01:36:32,098
I think you may be right about that.

1819
01:36:32,218 --> 01:36:35,338
So if you're doing that right now, they already bet on you.

1820
01:36:35,498 --> 01:36:39,618
Now, the thing is that they're saying like, look, and now you should understand
that.

1821
01:36:39,618 --> 01:36:42,378
Did you put all your personal money into BTC, most of it?

1822
01:36:42,418 --> 01:36:44,298
I don't have to answer it, but I'm sure the answer is yes.

1823
01:36:44,498 --> 01:36:48,338
So then I think if you're giving me the different answer for your company right now,

1824
01:36:48,458 --> 01:36:50,578
you're either lying or stupid, right?

1825
01:36:50,618 --> 01:36:51,618
There's no...

1826
01:36:51,618 --> 01:36:53,298
I understand what you mean by that, I think.

1827
01:36:53,298 --> 01:36:56,858
But there is, you do understand what I'm trying to say, that there is at one point,
I

1828
01:36:56,858 --> 01:37:01,218
took in, at one point I took a finance class in college.

1829
01:37:01,418 --> 01:37:02,978
See, this is what you need to forget about.

1830
01:37:03,578 --> 01:37:04,098
You don't...

1831
01:37:04,098 --> 01:37:05,698
You may be right. I'm just telling you, Bill.

1832
01:37:06,018 --> 01:37:10,978
I'm telling you the thing is, the thing is, when you invest in a company, you should
be

1833
01:37:10,978 --> 01:37:13,578
getting like a pure version of that company.

1834
01:37:14,578 --> 01:37:19,938
And if you shouldn't get, like, what if I were, I don't know how well this would

1835
01:37:19,938 --> 01:37:25,658
translate into London slash, I mean, like, ugh, like what are some companies that

1836
01:37:25,658 --> 01:37:28,058
compete, companies that compete with each other?

1837
01:37:28,938 --> 01:37:34,938
Like, OK, what if you invested money in me, and you said, and I said, I'm going to
make

1838
01:37:34,938 --> 01:37:35,858
a great Bitcoin wallet.

1839
01:37:36,658 --> 01:37:41,898
But what I did instead, and I did no work, I just took the same money you invested
in

1840
01:37:41,938 --> 01:37:48,338
me, and I put half of it into Wasabi, or however I do this, half of it into Wasabi
and

1841
01:37:48,338 --> 01:37:49,458
half of it into Samurai.

1842
01:37:51,738 --> 01:37:55,818
Well, then I think you would see that this is this is something kind of suspicious
is

1843
01:37:55,818 --> 01:37:57,378
happening here. I'm not actually doing anything.

1844
01:37:57,698 --> 01:37:59,378
They could have done that themselves.

1845
01:37:59,378 --> 01:38:01,818
They could have invested in Samurai and Wasabi themselves.

1846
01:38:02,138 --> 01:38:04,658
So my company is not really its own company.

1847
01:38:04,658 --> 01:38:10,538
It is just a convex combination of two other companies already.

1848
01:38:10,538 --> 01:38:13,618
I think the problem is academia fucked you too much in your head.

1849
01:38:13,618 --> 01:38:14,658
It may have. I don't know.

1850
01:38:14,658 --> 01:38:15,658
You know what the thing is.

1851
01:38:15,978 --> 01:38:17,858
But you understand why this argument exists.

1852
01:38:17,858 --> 01:38:18,538
And let me tell you why.

1853
01:38:18,698 --> 01:38:21,898
The investor should be sovereign and they should make all the decisions.

1854
01:38:21,898 --> 01:38:22,898
Yeah, see, that's the fucking problem.

1855
01:38:22,898 --> 01:38:25,818
And if they want to move things around, they're the king.

1856
01:38:25,818 --> 01:38:27,658
That's the problem with going to fucking college.

1857
01:38:27,658 --> 01:38:29,098
You may be right about that.

1858
01:38:29,098 --> 01:38:29,938
You know why the problem is?

1859
01:38:29,938 --> 01:38:32,818
It's possible that college just trains people to be good servants.

1860
01:38:32,978 --> 01:38:34,458
It's not about being a good servant.

1861
01:38:34,618 --> 01:38:39,538
It's that, look, dude, business in the real world, sometimes you acquire companies,

1862
01:38:39,578 --> 01:38:42,738
sometimes you invest in companies like, do you know that?

1863
01:38:43,098 --> 01:38:46,338
A lot of that is like a lot of that is dirty.

1864
01:38:47,258 --> 01:38:48,938
A lot of that is destroying value.

1865
01:38:49,058 --> 01:38:53,978
Ultimately, when you acquire companies and things, this is just games played by the
CEO,

1866
01:38:53,978 --> 01:38:57,578
a little empire building so that the CEO can entrench this position.

1867
01:38:57,818 --> 01:38:58,658
This is the problem.

1868
01:38:58,658 --> 01:39:00,538
You're leaving all the money for free.

1869
01:39:00,818 --> 01:39:02,218
Dude, it's very simple.

1870
01:39:02,218 --> 01:39:03,698
It's very simple when you're a CEO, right?

1871
01:39:04,218 --> 01:39:05,298
You're on a ship.

1872
01:39:05,818 --> 01:39:08,098
Your ship has to grow at all fucking cost.

1873
01:39:08,298 --> 01:39:09,858
Everything else, it's relevant.

1874
01:39:10,098 --> 01:39:12,898
And sometimes the only thing you care about is not going to jail.

1875
01:39:13,098 --> 01:39:16,018
Other than that, everything, you fucking kill anyone in front of you.

1876
01:39:16,178 --> 01:39:17,018
That's a great CEO.

1877
01:39:17,138 --> 01:39:18,658
That's the job description of a CEO.

1878
01:39:19,098 --> 01:39:19,858
You may be right.

1879
01:39:19,858 --> 01:39:24,138
But again, in my head, I'm wondering now, what does Alex know about this at all?

1880
01:39:24,138 --> 01:39:27,978
Anyway, how many CEOs have you been?

1881
01:39:28,098 --> 01:39:31,658
How many, you know, like, I don't know, you may be right.

1882
01:39:32,338 --> 01:39:33,818
But one second right now, I'm not sure.

1883
01:39:34,138 --> 01:39:37,738
I don't think for me to be, my observation to be right, I had to like

1884
01:39:37,738 --> 01:39:39,138
meet CEOs or be a CEO or whatever.

1885
01:39:39,138 --> 01:39:39,538
You're right.

1886
01:39:39,538 --> 01:39:40,258
Hey, you're right.

1887
01:39:40,298 --> 01:39:42,018
I'm just saying, you know, I don't know.

1888
01:39:42,338 --> 01:39:44,578
You seem very confident, which is always suspicious to me.

1889
01:39:45,658 --> 01:39:46,498
See, see that.

1890
01:39:46,498 --> 01:39:47,618
That's the fucking problem, right?

1891
01:39:47,618 --> 01:39:48,738
That is the craziest thing right now.

1892
01:39:49,458 --> 01:39:52,498
When you see someone being confident, you shouldn't be suspicious, dude.

1893
01:39:52,978 --> 01:39:54,938
Confidence should be a sign of goodness.

1894
01:39:54,938 --> 01:39:58,098
It's crazy how people see the confidence as a sign of something else.

1895
01:39:59,540 --> 01:40:00,740
It's a sign of something else. But anyway, that's not a problem.

1896
01:40:00,740 --> 01:40:04,780
Yeah, sometimes it means low self-awareness, not necessarily all the time.

1897
01:40:05,260 --> 01:40:09,540
Yeah, well, I don't know, look at it. I guess it's the way you can look at this
thing can sell it.

1898
01:40:09,700 --> 01:40:14,180
You should just look at the people who run the biggest companies in the world and
the most successful ones.

1899
01:40:14,340 --> 01:40:21,020
And I think they fit exactly that. I don't think they have all this like weird,
like, oh, but you're should and what about this?

1900
01:40:21,020 --> 01:40:24,380
And you may be right. You may be right. I'm just telling you.

1901
01:40:25,380 --> 01:40:32,980
Yeah, so see, I want to tell you, I think it's silly to for someone to invest into
me when they could have just bought Bitcoin themselves.

1902
01:40:33,020 --> 01:40:38,620
And when in a way that is much better for them. And I think, you know, there's many,
many, many, many reasons.

1903
01:40:38,620 --> 01:40:42,460
You know what I'm talking about? You know, you want to pay better for them to have
more privacy.

1904
01:40:43,380 --> 01:40:47,500
You know what people used to tell me a lot when they buy Bitcoins from from us?

1905
01:40:48,020 --> 01:40:51,900
Everyone just always says, I don't get it. Why don't I buy from the exchange?

1906
01:40:51,900 --> 01:40:59,820
Right. And it's like, it's the fuck out of me. And I probably even know, but that's
how I make money off people.

1907
01:41:00,140 --> 01:41:05,180
The fact that I have this asymmetric information of knowing how to do a brand of
reliability.

1908
01:41:05,700 --> 01:41:14,820
It's that's a different thing. Not necessary. Not necessary. I understand completely
why you would want to develop a relationship with a counterparty.

1909
01:41:14,900 --> 01:41:19,340
But at the end of the day, it's not that big of it's still kind of the same thing is
the same thing.

1910
01:41:19,340 --> 01:41:25,420
There's some asymmetry there. And if I would want to be this whole, like, oh, but in
college, it told us we should like, take care of people.

1911
01:41:25,460 --> 01:41:31,140
I'll be like, you know what, sir, why don't we sit down here and I'll show you how
to open an account with Coinbase.

1912
01:41:31,180 --> 01:41:35,860
And that's the most honest way. And I'm not going to make any fucking money on
buying any fucking guitars.

1913
01:41:36,380 --> 01:41:42,380
I'm telling you, that's called shit. Look, you know what we wanted to do? We need to
go on the street right now.

1914
01:41:42,420 --> 01:41:47,100
You need to do some drugs. You need to fuck a few hookers. Go to a few brothels. Go
a bit crazy, you know.

1915
01:41:47,140 --> 01:41:54,140
See how people run business in the real world. Go around like what people really do.
Real life stuff. And then be like, yeah, now I get it.

1916
01:41:54,180 --> 01:42:06,140
I've already admitted that there's some merit to your position, but I'm just asking
you if you understand what I'm saying, that why invest in a company that invest in
BTC when they can do it themselves?

1917
01:42:06,180 --> 01:42:12,140
I don't know, man. You know what you understand? I'm just saying, do you see that
there's also some merit in that argument?

1918
01:42:12,180 --> 01:42:13,180
I think that's stupid.

1919
01:42:13,180 --> 01:42:15,180
You don't see any at all?

1920
01:42:15,180 --> 01:42:17,180
I think that's stupid.

1921
01:42:17,180 --> 01:42:29,180
What if instead of putting it all in BTC, I just decided to put it all in some
random screwball thing, like a Haitian penny stocks or something.

1922
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:33,180
And I was like, look, if I lose this money, it wasn't mine. It was someone else's.

1923
01:42:33,180 --> 01:42:35,180
But I don't think it's stupid.

1924
01:42:35,180 --> 01:42:38,180
And if I make it, this thing could double up tomorrow.

1925
01:42:38,180 --> 01:42:40,180
Paul, I'm sorry.

1926
01:42:40,220 --> 01:42:42,220
I shouldn't be running a hedge fund.

1927
01:42:42,220 --> 01:42:46,220
Do you know who Michael Saylor is?

1928
01:42:46,220 --> 01:42:48,220
Yes.

1929
01:42:48,220 --> 01:42:53,220
Look, here's the thing right now. I think what that guy did was a bit risky with
this allocation.

1930
01:42:53,220 --> 01:42:57,220
But dude, that's what you need to understand.

1931
01:42:57,220 --> 01:42:59,220
There's only 21 million of this.

1932
01:42:59,220 --> 01:43:05,220
It's not 100% the risk, but it's way more the risk than it was in 2012 or 2013.

1933
01:43:05,260 --> 01:43:08,260
Yeah, I think the fair value of Bitcoin is much higher.

1934
01:43:08,260 --> 01:43:12,260
I mean, we're going to get in trouble if we say this, but it's much higher than the
current market price.

1935
01:43:12,260 --> 01:43:13,260
Anyway, that's not the point.

1936
01:43:13,260 --> 01:43:21,260
The point is that if you are some guy who runs a company, a fish shop, you run
Nokia, you run fucking Logitech.

1937
01:43:21,260 --> 01:43:22,260
I don't know.

1938
01:43:22,260 --> 01:43:23,260
You run fucking Apple.

1939
01:43:23,260 --> 01:43:24,260
All right.

1940
01:43:24,260 --> 01:43:27,260
You need to have some fucking portion of whatever cash you have in Bitcoin.

1941
01:43:27,260 --> 01:43:28,260
It really makes sense.

1942
01:43:28,260 --> 01:43:29,260
You're in it if you don't do that.

1943
01:43:29,260 --> 01:43:33,260
So now when I'm talking with Paul here, who fucking knows Bitcoin better than I do,

1944
01:43:33,300 --> 01:43:36,300
and he's telling me that, well, I don't know if that makes a lot of sense.

1945
01:43:36,300 --> 01:43:37,300
And there's something wrong with you.

1946
01:43:37,300 --> 01:43:39,300
I don't know if it's like allowed.

1947
01:43:39,300 --> 01:43:41,300
You know, that's what I'm saying.

1948
01:43:41,300 --> 01:43:50,300
They invest in companies so that the company can supposedly run operations and
generate revenue and profit.

1949
01:43:50,300 --> 01:43:55,300
When you have an investor, that's the conversation you have with your investors and
the expectations that you have with your investor.

1950
01:43:55,300 --> 01:43:56,300
There's no like a rule book to this.

1951
01:43:56,300 --> 01:43:57,300
It's the same thing as fucking Bitcoin.

1952
01:43:57,300 --> 01:43:58,300
But that's what I was saying.

1953
01:43:58,300 --> 01:44:01,300
Wasn't that the first thing I said when you asked me the question?

1954
01:44:01,340 --> 01:44:03,340
I said it would depend on the investors.

1955
01:44:03,340 --> 01:44:04,340
I talked to the investor.

1956
01:44:04,340 --> 01:44:08,340
So the way I would see it, I would imagine, is that if someone.

1957
01:44:08,340 --> 01:44:10,340
I said, look, do you want me to?

1958
01:44:10,340 --> 01:44:13,340
I was like, I'm pretty sure that this Bitcoin thing is it's got legs.

1959
01:44:13,340 --> 01:44:17,340
So do you mind if I put some of that?

1960
01:44:17,340 --> 01:44:19,340
I don't think that's how you run a company.

1961
01:44:19,340 --> 01:44:20,340
I don't I don't think so.

1962
01:44:20,340 --> 01:44:21,340
You may be right.

1963
01:44:21,340 --> 01:44:22,340
I don't know.

1964
01:44:22,340 --> 01:44:24,340
I don't know how to run a company.

1965
01:44:24,340 --> 01:44:25,340
I'm not interested.

1966
01:44:25,340 --> 01:44:27,340
You know how to run a company is a lot of work.

1967
01:44:27,340 --> 01:44:28,340
It is.

1968
01:44:28,340 --> 01:44:30,340
But you know how I would run a company.

1969
01:44:30,380 --> 01:44:31,380
I'll tell you how to run a company.

1970
01:44:31,380 --> 01:44:32,380
No, you put my.

1971
01:44:32,380 --> 01:44:35,380
So the reason I'm running the company is just every day.

1972
01:44:35,380 --> 01:44:36,380
Just be like, whatever.

1973
01:44:36,380 --> 01:44:37,380
No.

1974
01:44:37,380 --> 01:44:42,380
But the thing is, like, the reason I am that ahead of the ship is because I know I

1975
01:44:42,380 --> 01:44:45,380
supposed to know something better than most of the other people in the world about

1976
01:44:45,380 --> 01:44:46,380
this thing I'm doing.

1977
01:44:46,380 --> 01:44:50,380
So if you put your money into me, I'm going to see how things go.

1978
01:44:50,380 --> 01:44:54,380
Because if you if you trust me, even if sometimes I have to make some obvious

1979
01:44:54,380 --> 01:44:57,380
decision is because I know how things go and I know the direction to go in.

1980
01:44:57,380 --> 01:44:59,380
That's why you're supposed to be a CEO.

1981
01:44:59,420 --> 01:45:04,420
And you somehow you feel that somehow tainted and you shouldn't.

1982
01:45:04,420 --> 01:45:05,420
Yes.

1983
01:45:05,420 --> 01:45:06,420
I know what you're right.

1984
01:45:07,420 --> 01:45:08,420
You know, I think you are.

1985
01:45:08,420 --> 01:45:09,420
You are right.

1986
01:45:09,420 --> 01:45:14,420
There's like an academic, like divine that because you can't.

1987
01:45:17,420 --> 01:45:19,420
But yeah, it makes sense what you're saying.

1988
01:45:20,420 --> 01:45:21,420
I think I could.

1989
01:45:21,420 --> 01:45:22,420
I think I could make a version of that work.

1990
01:45:22,420 --> 01:45:24,420
I could say, look, I don't know.

1991
01:45:24,420 --> 01:45:25,420
You know, I did.

1992
01:45:26,420 --> 01:45:27,420
I do the best I can.

1993
01:45:27,420 --> 01:45:28,420
Same as everyone.

1994
01:45:28,460 --> 01:45:32,460
But at the end of the day, it's my decision because I own the company.

1995
01:45:32,460 --> 01:45:34,460
So X, Y, Z is the plan.

1996
01:45:35,460 --> 01:45:36,460
Paul, you know what?

1997
01:45:36,460 --> 01:45:37,460
I think I can make that work.

1998
01:45:37,460 --> 01:45:39,460
You know, what's my favorite story from the Bible?

1999
01:45:40,460 --> 01:45:41,460
Is the return of the prophet.

2000
01:45:41,460 --> 01:45:42,460
Let me think.

2001
01:45:42,460 --> 01:45:43,460
Oh, I was.

2002
01:45:44,460 --> 01:45:46,460
Didn't you already hear me say that?

2003
01:45:46,460 --> 01:45:47,460
Tell that story.

2004
01:45:47,460 --> 01:45:48,460
No, don't let for me.

2005
01:45:48,460 --> 01:45:49,460
No, no, no.

2006
01:45:49,460 --> 01:45:50,460
Let me tell you why I like that story.

2007
01:45:50,460 --> 01:45:51,460
Right.

2008
01:45:51,460 --> 01:45:52,460
That's also my favorite story.

2009
01:45:52,460 --> 01:45:53,460
You know that before you said that?

2010
01:45:53,460 --> 01:45:54,460
No, I swear to God.

2011
01:45:54,460 --> 01:45:55,460
I was going to try to guess.

2012
01:45:55,500 --> 01:45:56,500
Are you serious?

2013
01:45:56,500 --> 01:45:57,500
Anyway.

2014
01:45:57,500 --> 01:45:58,500
Yes.

2015
01:45:58,500 --> 01:45:59,500
But do you want to know why?

2016
01:45:59,500 --> 01:46:00,500
Okay.

2017
01:46:00,500 --> 01:46:01,500
I feel like I should write down why it's my favorite.

2018
01:46:01,500 --> 01:46:02,500
I'll say it first.

2019
01:46:03,500 --> 01:46:06,500
So the thing is, let's just lay out the story of the prodigal son.

2020
01:46:06,500 --> 01:46:07,500
And I'll adapt it to modern times.

2021
01:46:07,500 --> 01:46:08,500
The story of the prodigal son.

2022
01:46:08,500 --> 01:46:09,500
There's this.

2023
01:46:09,500 --> 01:46:12,500
There's a rich father and one son demands.

2024
01:46:12,500 --> 01:46:13,500
I want to do it.

2025
01:46:14,500 --> 01:46:15,500
Okay.

2026
01:46:15,500 --> 01:46:18,500
So there's this father who has some money and he has two sons.

2027
01:46:18,500 --> 01:46:20,500
And he says, here's some money.

2028
01:46:20,500 --> 01:46:21,500
Do whatever you want with it.

2029
01:46:21,500 --> 01:46:22,500
One of the sons.

2030
01:46:22,500 --> 01:46:23,500
That's not what it says.

2031
01:46:23,540 --> 01:46:25,540
One son asks for the inheritance early.

2032
01:46:25,540 --> 01:46:26,540
That's an important point.

2033
01:46:26,540 --> 01:46:28,540
Just let me adapt it to modern times.

2034
01:46:28,540 --> 01:46:29,540
Okay.

2035
01:46:29,540 --> 01:46:30,540
One son.

2036
01:46:30,540 --> 01:46:33,540
So both of them get some money and one of them sits down.

2037
01:46:33,540 --> 01:46:34,540
No, the one does not.

2038
01:46:34,540 --> 01:46:40,540
And the other one takes all the money, goes off, and starts doing cook off
stripper's

2039
01:46:40,540 --> 01:46:41,540
tits.

2040
01:46:41,540 --> 01:46:42,540
Right.

2041
01:46:42,540 --> 01:46:43,540
And he starts going crazy.

2042
01:46:43,540 --> 01:46:46,540
The point is one son asks for the inheritance early and blows it.

2043
01:46:46,540 --> 01:46:49,540
Whereas the other son is a loyal member of the household.

2044
01:46:49,540 --> 01:46:50,540
Exactly.

2045
01:46:50,540 --> 01:46:51,540
Helps the family farm.

2046
01:46:51,580 --> 01:46:57,580
So now it so happened that after a few years after just doing drugs and fucking
hookers

2047
01:46:57,580 --> 01:46:59,580
and whatever, he gets in this weird position.

2048
01:46:59,580 --> 01:47:00,580
The guy is broke.

2049
01:47:00,580 --> 01:47:06,580
He gets in this weird position where he's feeding pigs, but somehow he cannot even
eat

2050
01:47:06,580 --> 01:47:08,580
the food that he's feeding the pigs.

2051
01:47:08,580 --> 01:47:10,580
He's like the lowest a human being could be.

2052
01:47:10,580 --> 01:47:13,580
So through some other medical, they happen to...

2053
01:47:13,580 --> 01:47:14,580
He has the worst job ever.

2054
01:47:14,580 --> 01:47:15,580
The swineherd.

2055
01:47:15,580 --> 01:47:16,580
He has the worst job.

2056
01:47:16,580 --> 01:47:19,580
It's the lowest point you can have in society and everything.

2057
01:47:19,580 --> 01:47:20,580
It's the lowest in his life.

2058
01:47:20,620 --> 01:47:24,620
And now the thing is like for some way he gets connected to his father and he
returns

2059
01:47:24,620 --> 01:47:25,620
back.

2060
01:47:25,620 --> 01:47:29,620
And now when he returns back, the father says, cut the fat kelp.

2061
01:47:29,620 --> 01:47:30,620
Right.

2062
01:47:30,620 --> 01:47:32,620
And then the young son goes like, hey dad, wait a minute.

2063
01:47:32,620 --> 01:47:33,620
What's happening here?

2064
01:47:33,620 --> 01:47:35,620
I was here with you all along.

2065
01:47:35,620 --> 01:47:36,620
I didn't spend my money.

2066
01:47:36,620 --> 01:47:37,620
I was out just sitting here nice.

2067
01:47:37,620 --> 01:47:38,620
I was doing everything.

2068
01:47:38,620 --> 01:47:43,620
And now this guy comes here and you cut the fat kelp.

2069
01:47:43,620 --> 01:47:44,620
And then he says, don't worry about it.

2070
01:47:45,620 --> 01:47:46,620
He says cut the fat.

2071
01:47:46,660 --> 01:47:47,660
He says cut the fat.

2072
01:47:47,660 --> 01:47:50,660
He's throwing a giant party and a feast to welcome the son home.

2073
01:47:50,660 --> 01:47:51,660
Exactly.

2074
01:47:51,660 --> 01:47:53,660
And he's going to take care of the son from now on.

2075
01:47:53,660 --> 01:47:54,660
That's what he needs.

2076
01:47:54,660 --> 01:47:57,660
And he says, you are lost and now you're found.

2077
01:47:57,660 --> 01:48:00,660
Now, you know why I like this story so much?

2078
01:48:00,660 --> 01:48:06,660
Because your first instinct is to think that you're one of the sons, but you're not.

2079
01:48:06,660 --> 01:48:09,660
You are the father.

2080
01:48:09,660 --> 01:48:10,660
You are the father.

2081
01:48:10,660 --> 01:48:13,660
I agree that the father is the point of view of the story.

2082
01:48:13,660 --> 01:48:15,660
And these are your two natures.

2083
01:48:15,700 --> 01:48:20,700
This is your academic nature, your intellect, which is very polished and whatever.

2084
01:48:20,700 --> 01:48:22,700
And there's so much to gain from that.

2085
01:48:22,700 --> 01:48:27,700
But then there's this other nature, which is you have to go out in the world and
figure

2086
01:48:27,700 --> 01:48:28,700
out what the world is about.

2087
01:48:28,700 --> 01:48:29,700
And you have to go and feed.

2088
01:48:29,700 --> 01:48:33,700
You know, everyone knows feeding pigs is bad, but you have to understand that's what
you

2089
01:48:33,700 --> 01:48:34,700
do.

2090
01:48:34,700 --> 01:48:38,700
And the thing is, you have to go and prostitute yourself in the world.

2091
01:48:38,700 --> 01:48:43,700
And then you have to forget yourself and realize, OK, I got it now.

2092
01:48:43,740 --> 01:48:48,740
And I think you are missing a bit of this whole product.

2093
01:48:48,740 --> 01:48:50,740
Terrible interpretation of the story.

2094
01:48:51,740 --> 01:48:59,740
I like the story is the one person takes inherence early and blows it because he is
a loser.

2095
01:48:59,740 --> 01:49:05,740
And the other son is hardworking, conformance and is obedient and loyal.

2096
01:49:05,740 --> 01:49:06,740
Right.

2097
01:49:06,740 --> 01:49:09,740
But also productive and sort of prudent.

2098
01:49:09,780 --> 01:49:10,780
And the one son comes back.

2099
01:49:11,780 --> 01:49:13,780
And the father says, this is great.

2100
01:49:14,780 --> 01:49:15,780
The son's back.

2101
01:49:16,780 --> 01:49:17,780
And the other son's like, what about me?

2102
01:49:17,780 --> 01:49:18,780
I did all this work.

2103
01:49:18,780 --> 01:49:19,780
I was so loyal.

2104
01:49:19,780 --> 01:49:22,780
I didn't take I could have taken the inheritance, but I didn't.

2105
01:49:23,780 --> 01:49:27,780
And the father tells him to just shut his stupid fucking mouth because that's his
brother

2106
01:49:27,780 --> 01:49:28,780
that he's talking about.

2107
01:49:29,780 --> 01:49:33,780
And that is why what I like about the story is we can.

2108
01:49:33,820 --> 01:49:38,820
It's something about human nature where you can try to.

2109
01:49:39,820 --> 01:49:44,820
Lay down these rules and control the people that you love.

2110
01:49:45,820 --> 01:49:47,820
And you can threaten to do all these things.

2111
01:49:50,820 --> 01:49:54,820
But ultimately, you you they've got you, they got you over a barrel.

2112
01:49:54,820 --> 01:49:56,820
They you know, you love them no matter what.

2113
01:49:56,820 --> 01:50:02,820
And I feel like the Bible is actually trying to warn you about that through the
story.

2114
01:50:03,820 --> 01:50:04,820
That, you know.

2115
01:50:06,820 --> 01:50:10,820
Letting him have all the inheritance early and saying that he can't have any more.

2116
01:50:11,820 --> 01:50:13,820
That was actually kind of a silly thing to say.

2117
01:50:14,820 --> 01:50:16,820
Yeah, I'm totally different interpretation.

2118
01:50:16,820 --> 01:50:18,820
I think I think relationships and things.

2119
01:50:19,820 --> 01:50:21,820
Yeah, I think your interpretation is very literal.

2120
01:50:21,820 --> 01:50:22,820
I really think there is.

2121
01:50:23,820 --> 01:50:26,820
I told you I said a different way, but I think yours is just too literal.

2122
01:50:26,820 --> 01:50:27,820
And I think that's why it's wrong.

2123
01:50:28,820 --> 01:50:30,820
Anyway, the point is that the point is that.

2124
01:50:30,860 --> 01:50:32,860
Again, you're not going to learn how to do business.

2125
01:50:32,860 --> 01:50:33,860
Completely crazy.

2126
01:50:33,860 --> 01:50:34,860
That's the same.

2127
01:50:34,860 --> 01:50:35,860
I know.

2128
01:50:35,860 --> 01:50:36,860
I think that's true.

2129
01:50:36,860 --> 01:50:37,860
That was the point I was trying to make you.

2130
01:50:37,860 --> 01:50:38,860
Right.

2131
01:50:38,860 --> 01:50:39,860
And I think that.

2132
01:50:39,860 --> 01:50:40,860
Yeah, I agree with that.

2133
01:50:40,860 --> 01:50:41,860
That.

2134
01:50:41,860 --> 01:50:42,860
I mean, you can learn a lot of stuff.

2135
01:50:42,860 --> 01:50:43,860
That is.

2136
01:50:43,860 --> 01:50:45,860
People say that, like, there's no relationship at all.

2137
01:50:46,860 --> 01:50:47,860
You know what?

2138
01:50:47,860 --> 01:50:48,860
Dude, listen to me.

2139
01:50:48,860 --> 01:50:49,860
I'm in fucking college.

2140
01:50:49,860 --> 01:50:50,860
Right.

2141
01:50:50,860 --> 01:50:51,860
And I need to get an internship.

2142
01:50:51,860 --> 01:50:52,860
I need to get an internship.

2143
01:50:52,860 --> 01:50:53,860
So I pass.

2144
01:50:53,860 --> 01:50:54,860
So what do I do?

2145
01:50:54,860 --> 01:50:58,860
I play fucking poker for a whole summer in the dorms.

2146
01:50:58,900 --> 01:51:03,900
I'm playing with the kids in the morning and the kids in the afternoon, the way they

2147
01:51:03,900 --> 01:51:04,900
have their shifts to the work.

2148
01:51:04,900 --> 01:51:06,900
And I got a fake paper for that.

2149
01:51:06,900 --> 01:51:07,900
Right.

2150
01:51:07,900 --> 01:51:11,900
And I think I learned way more playing poker with people who are playing all they
would

2151
01:51:11,900 --> 01:51:12,900
earn in a month.

2152
01:51:12,900 --> 01:51:13,900
Right.

2153
01:51:13,900 --> 01:51:14,900
And then you.

2154
01:51:14,900 --> 01:51:15,900
Yeah, I think that's fine.

2155
01:51:15,900 --> 01:51:16,900
And you are an entrepreneur.

2156
01:51:17,900 --> 01:51:20,900
Well, yeah, I've always thought that it's silly about the internship requirement.

2157
01:51:20,900 --> 01:51:21,900
You can always start your own company.

2158
01:51:22,900 --> 01:51:23,900
Your own intern.

2159
01:51:23,940 --> 01:51:28,940
So what I'm trying to say is that you learn more just seeing how people react to
those

2160
01:51:28,940 --> 01:51:31,940
situations where their whole money was on the line and whatever.

2161
01:51:31,940 --> 01:51:35,940
You get to learn way more and you get to see, like, life isn't about the textbook.

2162
01:51:35,940 --> 01:51:39,940
Life is about sometimes you play the cash game near the toilet or whatever, where
you

2163
01:51:39,940 --> 01:51:40,940
have to do it.

2164
01:51:40,940 --> 01:51:46,940
I agree that poker is a good metaphor for life, but I don't think that that refutes

2165
01:51:47,940 --> 01:51:52,940
the idea of classes on finance being relevant to business.

2166
01:51:52,980 --> 01:51:53,980
I think it does.

2167
01:51:53,980 --> 01:51:57,980
I think it's nice if people want to start, if people want to work in business, I
would

2168
01:51:57,980 --> 01:51:59,980
prefer it if they knew some finance.

2169
01:51:59,980 --> 01:52:03,980
You know what the thing is, is the same way as like Jimi Hendrix never took a
fucking

2170
01:52:03,980 --> 01:52:04,980
guitar lesson in his life.

2171
01:52:05,980 --> 01:52:06,980
You don't even know if that's true.

2172
01:52:07,980 --> 01:52:09,980
Well, how can you even know if that's true or not?

2173
01:52:10,980 --> 01:52:13,980
OK, but I know there are other people who said that themselves.

2174
01:52:13,980 --> 01:52:15,980
And it's pretty obvious they never took a guitar lesson in their life.

2175
01:52:16,980 --> 01:52:17,980
And the thing is.

2176
01:52:17,980 --> 01:52:20,980
I don't know if that's true for them either, but they might have been as far as I
know.

2177
01:52:21,020 --> 01:52:26,020
The point is that the guy who plays classical music, he's kind of always played
classical

2178
01:52:26,020 --> 01:52:27,020
music.

2179
01:52:27,020 --> 01:52:31,020
And then there's the guy who somehow gets this intuition, sometimes partly out of
books,

2180
01:52:32,020 --> 01:52:33,020
sometimes out of everything else.

2181
01:52:34,020 --> 01:52:35,020
But he's trying to see what's up with the world.

2182
01:52:36,020 --> 01:52:37,020
And that's.

2183
01:52:37,020 --> 01:52:38,020
But this is now turned into a different conversation.

2184
01:52:39,020 --> 01:52:44,020
Certainly the person who learns guitar by themselves, they still learned guitar and

2185
01:52:45,020 --> 01:52:49,020
they know something about scales and chords, even if they don't use those words.

2186
01:52:49,060 --> 01:52:54,060
So similarly, someone who's self-taught in business, they would learn some version
of

2187
01:52:54,060 --> 01:52:55,060
finance 101 in their head.

2188
01:52:56,060 --> 01:52:57,060
It wouldn't be.

2189
01:52:57,060 --> 01:53:00,060
They may not use the same words, but they would learn the same concepts.

2190
01:53:00,060 --> 01:53:05,060
They would rediscover them from scratch and maybe they would maybe improve on them.

2191
01:53:06,060 --> 01:53:08,060
I'm just saying that there's no.

2192
01:53:09,060 --> 01:53:10,060
The difference.

2193
01:53:10,060 --> 01:53:11,060
The difference is.

2194
01:53:12,060 --> 01:53:15,060
Someone like Elon Musk would understand why.

2195
01:53:15,100 --> 01:53:16,100
It's.

2196
01:53:16,100 --> 01:53:17,100
It's.

2197
01:53:17,100 --> 01:53:22,100
They would understand my argument about if he lent me money to start my business, he

2198
01:53:23,100 --> 01:53:24,100
would want me to be working on the business.

2199
01:53:25,100 --> 01:53:27,100
He wouldn't want me to just invest in BTC and do nothing.

2200
01:53:28,100 --> 01:53:32,100
Yeah, I don't think that is what he would understand that implicitly, even if he
never

2201
01:53:33,100 --> 01:53:34,100
took finance.

2202
01:53:34,100 --> 01:53:37,100
I don't think I was longing for it up for the point of just investing in BTC and
doing

2203
01:53:38,100 --> 01:53:39,100
nothing.

2204
01:53:39,100 --> 01:53:40,100
I was just trying to understand.

2205
01:53:40,100 --> 01:53:41,100
It's a distraction.

2206
01:53:42,100 --> 01:53:43,100
I don't think that's true.

2207
01:53:43,140 --> 01:53:44,140
I don't think that's true.

2208
01:53:44,140 --> 01:53:47,140
I think you should be using the money to run the operations of the business.

2209
01:53:48,140 --> 01:53:49,140
Right.

2210
01:53:49,140 --> 01:53:50,140
I think.

2211
01:53:50,140 --> 01:53:53,140
I think the fact that I think we never had this in human history.

2212
01:53:54,140 --> 01:53:55,140
This weird asset like this.

2213
01:53:56,140 --> 01:53:57,140
I know.

2214
01:53:57,140 --> 01:53:58,140
I totally agree with that.

2215
01:53:58,140 --> 01:53:59,140
I completely agree.

2216
01:53:59,140 --> 01:54:00,140
So like this is the weirdest thing ever.

2217
01:54:01,140 --> 01:54:02,140
And when you understand what I'm saying.

2218
01:54:03,140 --> 01:54:04,140
Yeah.

2219
01:54:04,140 --> 01:54:05,140
But you're wrong.

2220
01:54:05,140 --> 01:54:06,140
It's.

2221
01:54:06,140 --> 01:54:09,140
No, but the ROI in BTC is so high that you shouldn't even start a company.

2222
01:54:10,140 --> 01:54:11,140
No, that's stupid.

2223
01:54:11,180 --> 01:54:12,180
Sorry.

2224
01:54:12,180 --> 01:54:14,180
The point is that the reason why I still think you should.

2225
01:54:15,180 --> 01:54:16,180
You know how right now.

2226
01:54:17,180 --> 01:54:18,180
So like, let's say I'm an investor.

2227
01:54:19,180 --> 01:54:20,180
Right.

2228
01:54:20,180 --> 01:54:21,180
And you start a tech company and all of a sudden you tell me that you don't know how

2229
01:54:22,180 --> 01:54:23,180
to use like Linux or something.

2230
01:54:24,180 --> 01:54:25,180
I'm like, whoa, whoa.

2231
01:54:26,180 --> 01:54:27,180
I'm not going to invest.

2232
01:54:27,180 --> 01:54:28,180
Yes.

2233
01:54:28,180 --> 01:54:29,180
Fine.

2234
01:54:29,180 --> 01:54:30,180
It's a minimal amount of literacy.

2235
01:54:31,180 --> 01:54:32,180
And I feel like having money in Bitcoin.

2236
01:54:33,180 --> 01:54:36,180
No, but don't you understand that Bitcoin is a competing investment to the company.

2237
01:54:37,180 --> 01:54:38,180
It's a competitor.

2238
01:54:39,180 --> 01:54:40,180
It's not.

2239
01:54:40,220 --> 01:54:41,220
Every dollar you invest in Bitcoin.

2240
01:54:42,220 --> 01:54:43,220
You can't invest in the company.

2241
01:54:44,220 --> 01:54:45,220
Yeah.

2242
01:54:45,220 --> 01:54:46,220
But here's the thing right now.

2243
01:54:46,220 --> 01:54:47,220
The point is that you're right.

2244
01:54:48,220 --> 01:54:50,220
As a company, you are actually competing with Bitcoin.

2245
01:54:51,220 --> 01:54:52,220
You literally are.

2246
01:54:52,220 --> 01:54:53,220
Because the opportunity cost is.

2247
01:54:54,220 --> 01:54:55,220
Thank you.

2248
01:54:55,220 --> 01:54:56,220
Yeah.

2249
01:54:56,220 --> 01:54:57,220
I'm not disagreeing with that.

2250
01:54:57,220 --> 01:54:58,220
OK.

2251
01:54:58,220 --> 01:54:59,220
But the hope is.

2252
01:54:59,220 --> 01:55:00,220
And you can't win.

2253
01:55:00,220 --> 01:55:01,220
You won't win unless there's one or two people like the exchanges.

2254
01:55:02,220 --> 01:55:03,220
But.

2255
01:55:03,220 --> 01:55:04,220
Yes.

2256
01:55:04,220 --> 01:55:05,220
But you basically cannot win.

2257
01:55:06,220 --> 01:55:07,220
Here's the thing, Paul.

2258
01:55:08,220 --> 01:55:09,220
I think in 1939 or something like that, around 1920s or whatever, they started
exploiting

2259
01:55:09,260 --> 01:55:10,260
oil.

2260
01:55:10,260 --> 01:55:11,260
Correct.

2261
01:55:11,260 --> 01:55:12,260
Something like that.

2262
01:55:12,260 --> 01:55:13,260
Around that time.

2263
01:55:14,260 --> 01:55:15,260
That was before the Henry Ford's Model T was like 1910 or something like that.

2264
01:55:16,260 --> 01:55:17,260
I'll come back.

2265
01:55:18,260 --> 01:55:19,260
Why was that recorded there?

2266
01:55:20,260 --> 01:55:21,260
Was that Model what?

2267
01:55:22,260 --> 01:55:23,260
I said Henry Ford's Model T, didn't I?

2268
01:55:24,260 --> 01:55:27,260
Anyway, at some point they had those things that like take oil off the ground.

2269
01:55:28,260 --> 01:55:29,260
Right.

2270
01:55:29,260 --> 01:55:30,260
That's when they started being invented.

2271
01:55:31,260 --> 01:55:36,260
So I'm sure there were a lot of people who were like, do we buy oil or do we build
some

2272
01:55:36,300 --> 01:55:41,300
companies that are going to like somehow do things with this and outlast and even
outperform

2273
01:55:41,300 --> 01:55:42,300
even the oil?

2274
01:55:43,300 --> 01:55:44,300
And that's what everyone is trying to do right now.

2275
01:55:45,300 --> 01:55:48,300
Well, some of them, some of them just want to do fun projects, which I think that's
what

2276
01:55:49,300 --> 01:55:50,300
you're trying to classify Blockstream as.

2277
01:55:51,300 --> 01:55:54,300
I don't think that this metaphor of Bitcoin being oil would stand up at all.

2278
01:55:55,300 --> 01:55:56,300
There's no oil.

2279
01:55:57,300 --> 01:55:58,300
It was hard to get oil.

2280
01:55:59,300 --> 01:56:01,300
You had to buy land and like dig it out and you had to store it.

2281
01:56:02,300 --> 01:56:03,300
This is like a very different thing.

2282
01:56:03,340 --> 01:56:04,340
Yeah.

2283
01:56:04,340 --> 01:56:05,340
You're right about it.

2284
01:56:06,340 --> 01:56:13,340
I don't think that the return on investment for buying raw oil was anything like,
would

2285
01:56:13,340 --> 01:56:17,340
ever anything be like BTC because you buy the oil and then someone else digs a
different

2286
01:56:18,340 --> 01:56:19,340
oil well somewhere.

2287
01:56:20,340 --> 01:56:21,340
It's interchangeable oil.

2288
01:56:21,340 --> 01:56:22,340
Forget about oil.

2289
01:56:22,340 --> 01:56:23,340
It's never fixed supply.

2290
01:56:23,340 --> 01:56:24,340
So you've never even heard of Bitcoin.

2291
01:56:25,340 --> 01:56:26,340
I'm never, ever going to make any metaphors with you.

2292
01:56:27,340 --> 01:56:28,340
You're too fucking literal.

2293
01:56:29,340 --> 01:56:30,340
Anyway, here's the thing right now.

2294
01:56:30,380 --> 01:56:36,380
The point is that there are going to be some companies, there just will, that are
going

2295
01:56:37,380 --> 01:56:38,380
to outperform Bitcoin.

2296
01:56:39,380 --> 01:56:40,380
Do you think that's true or not in the next five years?

2297
01:56:41,380 --> 01:56:46,380
You know, it's difficult to like even say yes to that.

2298
01:56:47,380 --> 01:56:48,380
Wow.

2299
01:56:48,380 --> 01:56:49,380
But if you say no to that.

2300
01:56:50,380 --> 01:56:52,380
Five to 10 years, I would say maybe one or two.

2301
01:56:53,380 --> 01:56:54,380
There'll be a few.

2302
01:56:55,380 --> 01:56:56,380
There'll be like a handful, sure.

2303
01:56:57,380 --> 01:56:58,380
What about the next 20 years?

2304
01:56:58,420 --> 01:57:05,420
Well, BTC eventually has to like, it will either get a thumbs up or a thumbs down
from

2305
01:57:06,420 --> 01:57:07,420
the world.

2306
01:57:08,420 --> 01:57:09,420
You know what I mean?

2307
01:57:09,420 --> 01:57:10,420
Like it's either going to explode into the world.

2308
01:57:11,420 --> 01:57:12,420
It did already.

2309
01:57:13,420 --> 01:57:14,420
And it will, or it will crash to zero.

2310
01:57:15,420 --> 01:57:16,420
So that's what's crazy about it.

2311
01:57:17,420 --> 01:57:18,420
You're not answering my question.

2312
01:57:19,420 --> 01:57:20,420
Do you think there's going to be companies that, Bitcoin is alive.

2313
01:57:21,420 --> 01:57:22,420
I'll tell you this.

2314
01:57:23,420 --> 01:57:27,420
In 2015, I would have absolutely said no way there will be any company that has the
ROI.

2315
01:57:28,420 --> 01:57:29,420
Now, the fact that it's already.

2316
01:57:30,420 --> 01:57:31,420
You're already proven wrong.

2317
01:57:32,420 --> 01:57:33,420
Well, which is just a few exchanges, right?

2318
01:57:34,420 --> 01:57:35,420
Like that's it.

2319
01:57:36,420 --> 01:57:38,420
I don't understand how you're throwing this few exchanges out like it's a bad thing.

2320
01:57:39,420 --> 01:57:40,420
Like, yeah, that's not the business that makes sense right now.

2321
01:57:41,420 --> 01:57:42,420
I don't understand what's wrong with it.

2322
01:57:43,420 --> 01:57:44,420
I think you're right that it's true.

2323
01:57:45,420 --> 01:57:46,420
That's fair and square.

2324
01:57:47,420 --> 01:57:48,420
They use their knowledge of Bitcoin to make even more money than.

2325
01:57:49,420 --> 01:57:50,420
Yes, I think that's fair.

2326
01:57:51,420 --> 01:57:52,420
What do you say?

2327
01:57:53,420 --> 01:57:54,420
Yeah, I mean.

2328
01:57:54,420 --> 01:57:55,420
But do you think there's going to be like some other thing that's like that?

2329
01:57:56,420 --> 01:57:57,420
Dude.

2330
01:57:57,460 --> 01:57:58,460
What's going to happen with computers, with everything, man?

2331
01:57:59,460 --> 01:58:02,460
No, because there was no competing like thing that you could buy.

2332
01:58:03,460 --> 01:58:04,460
That's the issue.

2333
01:58:05,460 --> 01:58:06,460
That's not a central issue.

2334
01:58:07,460 --> 01:58:08,460
You're right.

2335
01:58:08,460 --> 01:58:11,460
The point I'm trying to make is that actually there was some guy at some point that
invented something in a way.

2336
01:58:12,460 --> 01:58:13,460
Right.

2337
01:58:13,460 --> 01:58:14,460
And they're going to be other people who do this.

2338
01:58:15,460 --> 01:58:18,460
OK, and they're going to be some people who are going to create companies that are
bigger than they just have to be.

2339
01:58:19,460 --> 01:58:24,460
Because otherwise, Bitcoin is not going to go up if these companies don't exist
because there's no infrastructure and shit going around.

2340
01:58:25,460 --> 01:58:26,460
Right.

2341
01:58:26,500 --> 01:58:28,500
And whoever is going to build those companies, those are going to be the people.

2342
01:58:29,500 --> 01:58:30,500
Now, the same thing with the Internet.

2343
01:58:31,500 --> 01:58:32,500
And I know you're trying to say that there was no alternative and whatever.

2344
01:58:33,500 --> 01:58:36,500
But everyone that starts a company thinks theirs is going to be the one that grows
exponentially.

2345
01:58:37,500 --> 01:58:38,500
Right.

2346
01:58:39,500 --> 01:58:40,500
That's what a startup is, among other things.

2347
01:58:41,500 --> 01:58:42,500
I don't know.

2348
01:58:42,500 --> 01:58:43,500
Maybe.

2349
01:58:43,500 --> 01:58:44,500
Sure.

2350
01:58:44,500 --> 01:58:45,500
I don't understand why.

2351
01:58:46,500 --> 01:58:47,500
Some people like to some people like to run like a boutique.

2352
01:58:48,500 --> 01:58:49,500
They're called losers.

2353
01:58:50,500 --> 01:58:51,500
Small thing.

2354
01:58:51,500 --> 01:58:54,500
No, you can make a higher ROI on capital because you use less capital.

2355
01:58:54,540 --> 01:58:55,540
Yeah, Paul, but at the end of the day.

2356
01:58:56,540 --> 01:58:57,540
I think it's an illusion.

2357
01:58:58,540 --> 01:58:59,540
These people want to make the big unicorn tech companies.

2358
01:59:00,540 --> 01:59:01,540
I don't know.

2359
01:59:01,540 --> 01:59:02,540
People think that's super, super cool.

2360
01:59:03,540 --> 01:59:04,540
I don't respect it as much as other people do.

2361
01:59:05,540 --> 01:59:06,540
I think you don't.

2362
01:59:07,540 --> 01:59:08,540
But you know what?

2363
01:59:09,540 --> 01:59:11,540
I think there's roughly about the same chances of finding the love of your life.

2364
01:59:12,540 --> 01:59:14,540
But people still go out there and try to find it because it's cool.

2365
01:59:15,540 --> 01:59:16,540
People, I don't know.

2366
01:59:17,540 --> 01:59:18,540
People think that's a flaw.

2367
01:59:19,540 --> 01:59:21,540
You have dating sites and you have filters.

2368
01:59:21,580 --> 01:59:24,580
And I think that chops it within sort of realm of being possible.

2369
01:59:25,580 --> 01:59:26,580
Well, I want to stick around now.

2370
01:59:27,580 --> 01:59:28,580
I use the exact words.

2371
01:59:29,580 --> 01:59:30,580
Finding the love of your life.

2372
01:59:31,580 --> 01:59:32,580
You're telling me on what people settle.

2373
01:59:33,580 --> 01:59:34,580
People sell on fucking a lot.

2374
01:59:35,580 --> 01:59:36,580
Settle.

2375
01:59:36,580 --> 01:59:37,580
Yeah.

2376
01:59:37,580 --> 01:59:38,580
Well, you're saying there's only one soulmate out there.

2377
01:59:39,580 --> 01:59:40,580
But it's randomly distributed to the population.

2378
01:59:41,580 --> 01:59:42,580
No, that's not what I say.

2379
01:59:43,580 --> 01:59:44,580
But right.

2380
01:59:44,580 --> 01:59:45,580
So let's say right now I'm trying to find love in my life.

2381
01:59:46,580 --> 01:59:47,580
Right.

2382
01:59:47,580 --> 01:59:48,580
She has to be female.

2383
01:59:48,580 --> 01:59:49,580
Half of the world.

2384
01:59:49,580 --> 01:59:50,580
Right.

2385
01:59:50,620 --> 01:59:51,620
I don't want her to be specific heights because, you know, whatever.

2386
01:59:52,620 --> 01:59:53,620
OK.

2387
01:59:53,620 --> 01:59:54,620
Done.

2388
01:59:54,620 --> 01:59:55,620
I want her to be very some different types of hair.

2389
01:59:56,620 --> 01:59:57,620
OK.

2390
01:59:58,620 --> 01:59:59,620
Now, after all of these things.

2391
02:00:00,620 --> 02:00:01,620
Right.

2392
02:00:01,620 --> 02:00:02,620
And now, again, I want her to know how to maybe cook some specific foods.

2393
02:00:03,620 --> 02:00:04,620
I want her to have the same diet as me.

2394
02:00:05,620 --> 02:00:06,620
I want her to, you know, to do this.

2395
02:00:07,620 --> 02:00:08,620
I want her to, like, have a certain personality.

2396
02:00:09,620 --> 02:00:10,620
I'd like her to be that.

2397
02:00:11,620 --> 02:00:12,620
I also want her to be smart in certain ways.

2398
02:00:13,620 --> 02:00:14,620
I would also care for her to know about music.

2399
02:00:15,620 --> 02:00:16,620
I have all these fucking things.

2400
02:00:17,620 --> 02:00:18,620
This would be the love of my life.

2401
02:00:18,660 --> 02:00:19,660
Right.

2402
02:00:19,660 --> 02:00:20,660
So do you understand right now?

2403
02:00:20,660 --> 02:00:21,660
There's probably like.

2404
02:00:22,660 --> 02:00:23,660
And that's not for me, for anyone.

2405
02:00:24,660 --> 02:00:25,660
But you have to really be honest and, like, really shoot for.

2406
02:00:26,660 --> 02:00:27,660
Yes.

2407
02:00:27,660 --> 02:00:28,660
Ten thousand.

2408
02:00:28,660 --> 02:00:29,660
Ten thousand women on the plan.

2409
02:00:30,660 --> 02:00:31,660
It's probably the chance of me finding that woman.

2410
02:00:31,660 --> 02:00:32,660
It's slim to nothing.

2411
02:00:32,660 --> 02:00:33,660
Right.

2412
02:00:33,660 --> 02:00:34,660
That's to know.

2413
02:00:34,660 --> 02:00:35,660
But if there's ten thousand, then there's more.

2414
02:00:36,660 --> 02:00:37,660
Of that's just any one of them would do.

2415
02:00:38,660 --> 02:00:39,660
They would be the ideal.

2416
02:00:40,660 --> 02:00:41,660
So that's the numerator, not the denominator.

2417
02:00:42,660 --> 02:00:43,660
No, I agree with you.

2418
02:00:44,660 --> 02:00:47,660
But the point is, like, finding that person that the likelihood is very low.

2419
02:00:47,700 --> 02:00:48,700
Right.

2420
02:00:48,700 --> 02:00:50,700
Because wherever they're distributed on the map and whatever.

2421
02:00:51,700 --> 02:00:52,700
Anyway, why do I try a metaphor?

2422
02:00:53,700 --> 02:00:54,700
I was saying you could use tech.

2423
02:00:55,700 --> 02:00:56,700
You would have ways of.

2424
02:00:57,700 --> 02:00:59,700
You could meet at a concert where you have a similar interest.

2425
02:01:00,700 --> 02:01:01,700
You have these dating apps.

2426
02:01:02,700 --> 02:01:04,700
There are ways that it's not an independent roll of a dice.

2427
02:01:05,700 --> 02:01:06,700
It's just ten thousand.

2428
02:01:07,700 --> 02:01:08,700
So how is this startup different than that?

2429
02:01:09,700 --> 02:01:10,700
That's the point I'm trying to make here.

2430
02:01:11,700 --> 02:01:12,700
It's not.

2431
02:01:12,700 --> 02:01:13,700
OK, it's not.

2432
02:01:13,700 --> 02:01:15,700
It's not an independent roll of the dice because some people are just.

2433
02:01:15,740 --> 02:01:16,740
Legitimately more skilled.

2434
02:01:17,740 --> 02:01:20,740
There's a lot of luck is involved, but some people are more skilled and it's not
just.

2435
02:01:21,740 --> 02:01:22,740
Some people just don't give up.

2436
02:01:23,740 --> 02:01:24,740
Startup.

2437
02:01:24,740 --> 02:01:25,740
That's the thing with startups.

2438
02:01:26,740 --> 02:01:27,740
Some people are willing to do anything.

2439
02:01:28,740 --> 02:01:29,740
It takes humanly possible.

2440
02:01:30,740 --> 02:01:31,740
Something even some even break the law.

2441
02:01:32,740 --> 02:01:34,740
And that's those are the people who are going to build a unicorn.

2442
02:01:35,740 --> 02:01:36,740
Now you are asking why would you do this?

2443
02:01:37,740 --> 02:01:38,740
I think I was saying, right.

2444
02:01:39,740 --> 02:01:40,740
I'm not willing to do that much work.

2445
02:01:41,740 --> 02:01:42,740
I like to just play in 64.

2446
02:01:43,740 --> 02:01:44,740
And chill out.

2447
02:01:45,740 --> 02:01:46,740
That's fine.

2448
02:01:46,740 --> 02:01:47,740
So there's nothing wrong with that, by the way.

2449
02:01:48,740 --> 02:01:50,740
So why can't I just do that and then just tweet it blocks for you?

2450
02:01:51,740 --> 02:01:52,740
I think you can do whatever you want.

2451
02:01:53,740 --> 02:01:55,740
I'm still going to podcast with you and I'm not into talking about those things with
you.

2452
02:01:56,740 --> 02:01:57,740
So it's not like I'm judging you in any way.

2453
02:01:58,740 --> 02:01:59,740
OK, but.

2454
02:02:00,740 --> 02:02:08,740
As far as the existential purpose of Drivechains and Hivemind more to what my
interest and I thought it was more interesting.

2455
02:02:09,740 --> 02:02:11,740
That is the biggest tragedy you can do in your life.

2456
02:02:11,780 --> 02:02:13,780
So the biggest tragedy I can do in my life.

2457
02:02:14,780 --> 02:02:16,780
What if I jumped off this balcony to my death 10 seconds from now?

2458
02:02:17,780 --> 02:02:18,780
OK.

2459
02:02:18,780 --> 02:02:25,780
You mean I'm trying to say, like, as far as if you know how Pinocchio gets born and
whatever.

2460
02:02:26,780 --> 02:02:27,780
I do.

2461
02:02:27,780 --> 02:02:31,780
Imagine like right now, Hivemind or this kind of you're going to I know you're
going to.

2462
02:02:32,780 --> 02:02:35,780
I'm a real I'm a real protocol.

2463
02:02:35,820 --> 02:02:36,820
I'm a real protocol.

2464
02:02:37,820 --> 02:02:44,820
Anyway, if they would come back right now, we had we have biblical and nursery rhyme
references.

2465
02:02:45,820 --> 02:02:46,820
If that's what you wanted out of a podcast.

2466
02:02:47,820 --> 02:02:54,820
Pinocchio is a very strong, very, very strong and archetypical and so much and so
dense.

2467
02:02:55,820 --> 02:02:56,820
Really?

2468
02:02:56,820 --> 02:02:57,820
You don't think so?

2469
02:02:58,820 --> 02:02:59,820
I honestly I don't think so.

2470
02:02:59,860 --> 02:03:00,860
I honestly I you may be right.

2471
02:03:01,860 --> 02:03:02,860
I never really given it that much thought.

2472
02:03:03,860 --> 02:03:07,860
Dude, why are you talking about like like like the Pinocchio, what he represents to
Geppetto,

2473
02:03:08,860 --> 02:03:11,860
the father figure, how he does this thing, how he goes in the world, how he gets
knowledge.

2474
02:03:12,860 --> 02:03:13,860
Anyway, anyway, that's not the point.

2475
02:03:14,860 --> 02:03:15,860
The point is that archetypal.

2476
02:03:16,860 --> 02:03:20,860
I don't have one like the fighter figure that does the fighter figure and how he the
relationship

2477
02:03:21,860 --> 02:03:22,860
with and then the other archetypal.

2478
02:03:22,900 --> 02:03:24,900
Characters that come there, there's the guy who teach him to smoke.

2479
02:03:25,900 --> 02:03:26,900
Anyway, that's not the point.

2480
02:03:27,900 --> 02:03:28,900
The friends, the betrayal, the ways you do in life.

2481
02:03:29,900 --> 02:03:30,900
Anyway, that's not the point.

2482
02:03:31,900 --> 02:03:34,900
The point is, the point is that if Drivechain could talk or whatever, he would
think that

2483
02:03:35,900 --> 02:03:39,900
that you that would be the you would need to know if that would be their child.

2484
02:03:40,900 --> 02:03:41,900
You would need to know.

2485
02:03:42,900 --> 02:03:45,900
And the way you would nurture it, you would have to take out the hardness, the
hardness

2486
02:03:46,900 --> 02:03:47,900
of the relationship.

2487
02:03:47,940 --> 02:03:48,940
You would need to know.

2488
02:03:49,940 --> 02:03:51,940
And the way you would nurture it, you would have to take out the hardness,

2489
02:03:52,940 --> 02:03:56,940
the hardship of being a founder and even a CEO and take these responsibilities

2490
02:03:57,940 --> 02:03:58,940
so a child could grow.

2491
02:03:59,940 --> 02:04:00,940
Because of what you do when you have a kid also.

2492
02:04:01,940 --> 02:04:04,940
Like the kid comes in, he's a baby and he's like, shit, I need to earn money for
this kid.

2493
02:04:05,940 --> 02:04:06,940
Shit, I need to do these things.

2494
02:04:07,940 --> 02:04:08,940
Shit, I need to do things I didn't like to do anymore.

2495
02:04:09,940 --> 02:04:10,940
Shit, I need to change my moral.

2496
02:04:11,940 --> 02:04:12,940
Shit, I need to do shit.

2497
02:04:13,940 --> 02:04:14,940
This kid needs to survive until it does.

2498
02:04:14,980 --> 02:04:17,980
So that's why I feel it's it's if you see it, that's how I would see it.

2499
02:04:18,980 --> 02:04:19,980
Because it is your career.

2500
02:04:20,980 --> 02:04:21,980
You did use the word when you talk with me.

2501
02:04:22,980 --> 02:04:23,980
I invented.

2502
02:04:24,980 --> 02:04:26,980
You said at some point, I think you're referring to blind marriage mining.

2503
02:04:27,980 --> 02:04:32,980
But I think you do feel you are in a creator's position towards your projects

2504
02:04:33,980 --> 02:04:34,980
and whatever and everyone else.

2505
02:04:35,980 --> 02:04:36,980
But, you know, ideas, you know, they exist in an infinite.

2506
02:04:38,980 --> 02:04:43,980
Canvas of possibility, and they are also not sentient humans with feelings.

2507
02:04:44,980 --> 02:04:47,980
So we don't need to care very much if they if they never are born.

2508
02:04:48,980 --> 02:04:49,980
There's not as much.

2509
02:04:50,980 --> 02:04:51,980
But I'm working on a drive.

2510
02:04:52,980 --> 02:04:54,980
I'm not saying you're not.

2511
02:04:55,980 --> 02:04:56,980
I'm not accusing you or not, by the way.

2512
02:04:57,980 --> 02:04:58,980
I was just trying to say, like, yeah.

2513
02:04:59,980 --> 02:05:00,980
The hardship of a founder.

2514
02:05:01,484 --> 02:05:28,484
Yeah. And you know what? I mean, that sounds terrible. I really I if we would be in
the same city, I would really want to do mushrooms that you talk about this thing. I
really do. I want to do a lot because probably you have to go to one of the three
cities in America where it is decriminalized. Anyway, I think you should like
whatever you take, revisit this thought. And I think the drive him will talk to you.
I swear to God, I think it will. If you ever do it. Okay, great. Yeah.

2515
02:05:28,484 --> 02:05:58,484
But yeah, but the critic, I mean, you have to do it, you know, during the sunlight.
So I don't know when you have to do it. I don't know. Maybe I'm just crazy about
this thing. And I'll I'll have to I have to admit something. This is how I think
things should be done in the world. And there's a lot of projection on on things
here. Right. And from my side. So I have to admit that. Right. That's how I think
anything could be solved. And it's build a company or something. And that I didn't
think this. Yeah. Like, that's kind of weird. That's weird. Don't you think? Why is
it weird about it?

2516
02:05:58,484 --> 02:06:28,484
That's the ultimate thing you could do at the ultimate thing you could do. Build a
company. I don't know. Like, I think so. Yeah, I think that's the founder. What
about the founder of Buddhism? I mean, I think there are a lot of things you can do.
You look first man on the moon. Come on. Like, there are other things you could do.
What about what about Jimi Hendrix? You're right, Paul. Where's his company? Oh,
gotcha there. Oh, with the twisting of the knife. You're right. Oh, Jimi Hendrix.
You're very right about that.

2517
02:06:28,484 --> 02:06:58,184
You're right. You don't have to build a business for everything. But the things we
specially talk about, and we find interesting, and the context of the current world
we live in right now, and the fact that Bitcoin is this

2518
02:06:58,184 --> 02:07:27,104
native way of pricing things in, which is clearly connected to energy, the energy of
the world. And I mean that, because it's always pricing in a thermodynamic context,
right? It really feels like a lot of things you're going to do right now, they have
to be done through the prism of business. Look, if you want to start a band, if you
want to start your piano, I don't know, maybe it doesn't. But I would even argue
even starting a band right now needs to be done like a business, if you ask me.
Because Jimi Hendrix was a business.

2519
02:07:27,104 --> 02:07:38,504
Yeah, but aren't you just folding everything into business now? And I think it's
good. Oh, yeah, when he painted that painting, he painted it like someone starting a
business.

2520
02:07:38,504 --> 02:07:40,544
Yeah, and you know why I think that's true?

2521
02:07:40,584 --> 02:07:42,344
I know, but now isn't it going to lose its meaning?

2522
02:07:42,344 --> 02:07:52,904
No, no, it's not. No, it's not. Because the main thing about Bitcoin was that it
prices things in. That's the whole thing. Now we have this great thing to price in
every aspect of reality.

2523
02:07:53,024 --> 02:08:01,344
No, that's not the fundamental part. It happened to have a fee market that you would
pay in BTC. But that was not really the most important thing about it.

2524
02:08:01,384 --> 02:08:03,544
What's the most important thing about it that you care about it?

2525
02:08:04,264 --> 02:08:07,704
Well, I don't want to rank them like that. But let me see.

2526
02:08:07,944 --> 02:08:09,064
First thing that pops in your mind.

2527
02:08:09,064 --> 02:08:39,024
The most important thing about Bitcoin was slowly distributing it every 10 minutes,
in a completely impersonal way. That made it its own thing. And it wasn't just
Satoshi's wacko project, and he could make all of his friends rich.

2528
02:08:39,904 --> 02:08:51,304
It gave it an objective existence. But again, I don't have a bunch of reasons like
ranks from one to 10. There are a lot of things that make it important. But that's
the thing that pops into my head as being the craziest.

2529
02:08:51,344 --> 02:08:59,344
I think your observation is really interesting. And it plays out so importantly that
we got to the point where this is so great.

2530
02:08:59,544 --> 02:09:08,304
Otherwise, people would learn about it like four years later, and they would think,
I can't. But with it slowly being released, then everyone can say, this was fair.

2531
02:09:08,664 --> 02:09:16,224
You're right. And that was an innovation, an architectural innovation, if you may.
And I think you're very right to point out one. That's one I would rank very high
also.

2532
02:09:16,464 --> 02:09:29,344
But my point was that I wasn't trying to say like, from that point of view, my point
was that what purpose does BTC, regardless of the intention of the creator or
whatever, what purpose does it serve in human life, human existence?

2533
02:09:29,504 --> 02:09:38,344
And I think you at your Hivemind project would say that it's a good tool to price
things in because there's no censorship resistance.

2534
02:09:38,984 --> 02:09:46,744
Because there's many frictions are removed, normal friction, there will be all these
things, transaction costs, taxes, whatever, there'll be all this stuff.

2535
02:09:46,864 --> 02:09:52,304
So I know for a fact that you see there isn't any, that's just what you see is what
you get.

2536
02:09:52,544 --> 02:09:59,824
And I know for a fact that you also agree that markets can solve a lot of problems.
You picked a specific one with the Hivemind one.

2537
02:10:00,104 --> 02:10:02,904
Yes, I have a specific favorite example.

2538
02:10:02,904 --> 02:10:05,664
But you know that, oh, sorry, go on with it if you want.

2539
02:10:06,424 --> 02:10:19,424
Well, I was saying I have this favorite examples of like the elections, the CEO type
thing of being that really important situation where you would want to get
information from markets.

2540
02:10:20,144 --> 02:10:23,304
So that is, those are examples that I like.

2541
02:10:23,424 --> 02:10:33,224
Yeah, so those are some tradition markets. Well, I think that if Bitcoin is going to
grow in the next 50 years, 100 years, I think that I think something that is going
to happen is just so obvious is going to happen.

2542
02:10:33,384 --> 02:10:44,024
And I think the context is going to get extended even more to other areas of things
and weird abstractions and other market dynamics and markets of this, interacting
with markets of this, yada, yada.

2543
02:10:44,304 --> 02:10:52,744
So then it only makes sense that everything is going to get priced in in BTC because
it's just a better way of doing it.

2544
02:10:52,984 --> 02:11:00,064
So then everything will have an economic incentive and everything will be like a
business and everything will be based on some incentivization of some sort.

2545
02:11:00,344 --> 02:11:04,344
So that's why the people who are going to play music, they're going to get priced in
BTC somehow.

2546
02:11:04,464 --> 02:11:07,064
Everyone in the world is going to get priced in BTC.

2547
02:11:07,504 --> 02:11:13,584
Right. And that's why I think it makes a lot of sense that if you want to be an
artist, like if we start a band right now.

2548
02:11:13,744 --> 02:11:17,864
Let's say we start a band. It has to have some economic incentive to some degree.

2549
02:11:17,864 --> 02:11:29,384
I don't know what we're going to do with this podcast, but this podcast, if it
becomes somehow big, which you said you don't want it, it will it will just it will
have some form of that because it will get priced in BTC somehow.

2550
02:11:29,504 --> 02:11:32,384
Right. So that's why I do think everything becomes a business.

2551
02:11:33,184 --> 02:11:40,544
Everything was always a business, every type of from the first time a person
exchanges stick for a blowjob or whatever the fuck they did in the old days.

2552
02:11:40,544 --> 02:11:43,624
Right. That was a business nature.

2553
02:11:43,624 --> 02:11:44,664
It was a business of one.

2554
02:11:44,664 --> 02:11:46,904
OK, blah, blah, blah. You're going to make everything into a business.

2555
02:11:46,904 --> 02:11:48,744
Now, I'm not going to make everything do it.

2556
02:11:48,904 --> 02:11:50,424
Things are not business.

2557
02:11:51,704 --> 02:11:55,664
Friendship is not a business, even though if you want, you can extend that context.

2558
02:11:55,664 --> 02:12:02,984
Also, like, well, there's people give their time or whatever, but it's not there's
some not business type incentives.

2559
02:12:03,624 --> 02:12:05,984
Playing guitar by yourself is not a business, right?

2560
02:12:06,864 --> 02:12:08,064
Meditation by yourself.

2561
02:12:08,384 --> 02:12:10,624
It's not meditation with other people is not a business.

2562
02:12:10,824 --> 02:12:12,824
So I don't think every mushroom is by yourself.

2563
02:12:13,384 --> 02:12:14,984
Yes. I don't think not a business.

2564
02:12:15,064 --> 02:12:16,664
I don't think everything is a business.

2565
02:12:16,944 --> 02:12:27,824
But I think a lot of human interaction, a big part of it that has to agree with you
that it's business is a very authentic thing because both people are selfish and
focused.

2566
02:12:27,984 --> 02:12:30,464
So that is a very authentic kind of.

2567
02:12:32,304 --> 02:12:34,384
It's weird because a lot of people would say the reverse.

2568
02:12:34,384 --> 02:12:39,824
A lot of people would say that business is cutthroat, people are lying and that they
should instead be friends.

2569
02:12:39,944 --> 02:12:41,704
A lot of people would say that, you know what I mean?

2570
02:12:41,704 --> 02:12:43,104
Right. The communists would say that.

2571
02:12:44,184 --> 02:12:45,184
But you know why they say that?

2572
02:12:47,064 --> 02:12:48,584
They don't know anything about communism.

2573
02:12:49,144 --> 02:13:00,064
No, it's because all the businesses, they worked on this weird money and the
incentives and they could lobby certain groups and they could influence certain laws
and whatever.

2574
02:13:00,064 --> 02:13:01,744
Right. Like cigarette companies and whatever.

2575
02:13:01,984 --> 02:13:06,504
But if everything would be into Bitcoin and would get priced in, you couldn't do
this anymore.

2576
02:13:06,544 --> 02:13:09,504
The problem, here's the thing, greed isn't the problem.

2577
02:13:10,224 --> 02:13:11,224
The problem is greed.

2578
02:13:11,464 --> 02:13:12,584
You can have honest greed.

2579
02:13:12,664 --> 02:13:13,984
Bitcoin made greed honest.

2580
02:13:14,024 --> 02:13:16,504
Right. No, I don't think Bitcoin is enough for that.

2581
02:13:16,584 --> 02:13:20,464
But I think maybe, you know, Bitcoin plus Hivemind plus like four or five other
things.

2582
02:13:21,144 --> 02:13:25,504
Yeah. But when I see this, I told you, you see, that's why you're an asshole
sometimes.

2583
02:13:25,664 --> 02:13:36,584
When you, when you, when I wanted to say how this cosmic narrative, an extension of
Bitcoin and why Hivemind was interesting, that's what I was, I consider this also
Bitcoin because an extension of it and an iteration towards it.

2584
02:13:36,944 --> 02:13:40,704
Or maybe it's not going to be Hivemind because you don't want to take the, the,
what's it called?

2585
02:13:41,144 --> 02:13:43,704
The founder's hardship.

2586
02:13:43,864 --> 02:13:48,424
So it's probably going to be some other person which you're going to hit on, like
the same way you hit on Blockstream, right on the back.

2587
02:13:48,664 --> 02:13:49,544
Maybe.

2588
02:13:50,024 --> 02:13:58,304
Oh, I would like it if they would just, if they would just copy the idea exactly as
is, I think I could find in my heart to support them.

2589
02:13:58,304 --> 02:13:59,384
But see, this is the problem.

2590
02:13:59,384 --> 02:14:02,304
But they're going to inject all their stupid crap into it and ruin it.

2591
02:14:02,344 --> 02:14:03,824
It's not stupid crap, Paul.

2592
02:14:04,184 --> 02:14:05,784
You're the stupid one for taking this.

2593
02:14:06,264 --> 02:14:06,704
Maybe.

2594
02:14:07,064 --> 02:14:07,584
Here's the thing.

2595
02:14:07,984 --> 02:14:13,344
Let's say right now, I ask you to design me a, let's say I ask you to design me a
guitar, right?

2596
02:14:13,944 --> 02:14:14,464
Let's say that.

2597
02:14:14,784 --> 02:14:17,624
And you do it in your 3D Studio Max thing.

2598
02:14:17,824 --> 02:14:20,424
You do this, you do all the mechanics, whatever.

2599
02:14:21,024 --> 02:14:24,224
And now I'm going to build it because I have the wood.

2600
02:14:24,864 --> 02:14:28,344
There's going to be some things you don't know about wood.

2601
02:14:28,424 --> 02:14:29,744
You may know them theoretically.

2602
02:14:29,944 --> 02:14:31,424
So that's what's happening.

2603
02:14:31,464 --> 02:14:32,184
That's what's going to happen.

2604
02:14:32,184 --> 02:14:34,944
No, but that's different than what I'm worried about.

2605
02:14:35,144 --> 02:14:36,344
Go on, what you're worried about, Paul.

2606
02:14:37,224 --> 02:14:48,504
Um, no, I, certain changes could certainly be improvements and as a result of being
more specific and specialization, that's fine.

2607
02:14:48,504 --> 02:14:53,384
I just don't think, I think people will, at the level of the design, wreck it.

2608
02:14:53,624 --> 02:15:02,664
Well, so far, no one has, people today have terrible, absolutely, unbelievably
terrible Oracle stuff to this day.

2609
02:15:02,664 --> 02:15:08,464
And, um, so why don't they just copy what I did, which would be much better.

2610
02:15:08,664 --> 02:15:10,184
I don't think they understand what you're doing.

2611
02:15:10,664 --> 02:15:11,184
Yeah.

2612
02:15:11,464 --> 02:15:11,984
Right.

2613
02:15:11,984 --> 02:15:13,584
So that's what I'm sort of worried about.

2614
02:15:15,184 --> 02:15:18,664
Then even more of an argument that you need to make sure that's done properly, you
know?

2615
02:15:18,864 --> 02:15:19,584
I don't know.

2616
02:15:19,584 --> 02:15:21,624
Like, it seems like a mess.

2617
02:15:21,624 --> 02:15:24,264
It seems like everyone at Bitcoin would hate it anyway, at this point.

2618
02:15:25,424 --> 02:15:26,224
Who cares, man?

2619
02:15:26,224 --> 02:15:27,264
Everyone hates you anyway.

2620
02:15:27,864 --> 02:15:28,664
I know they already do.

2621
02:15:28,704 --> 02:15:29,624
Why do you care about it?

2622
02:15:29,624 --> 02:15:39,624
At least, at least give them a reason, you know, because you're the, you need to
have like supporters or something, you know, you need to have like some kind of
momentum.

2623
02:15:39,624 --> 02:15:41,224
You're not going to have supporters without a logo.

2624
02:15:42,224 --> 02:15:43,024
You know that very well.

2625
02:15:44,624 --> 02:15:45,624
Everyone has a little logo.

2626
02:15:46,024 --> 02:15:49,024
People can, there's a little hexagon with a B.

2627
02:15:50,624 --> 02:15:51,024
Yeah.

2628
02:15:51,224 --> 02:15:51,624
There you go.

2629
02:15:51,624 --> 02:15:52,824
That's just the logo.

2630
02:15:53,224 --> 02:15:55,424
Like the logo, literally, it's not the logo metaphor.

2631
02:15:55,424 --> 02:15:56,024
Got it.

2632
02:15:56,024 --> 02:15:56,824
I don't know, man.

2633
02:15:57,024 --> 02:15:57,624
I don't know.

2634
02:15:57,624 --> 02:15:58,224
I don't know.

2635
02:15:58,224 --> 02:16:02,224
We got in this tangent again and look, whatever.

2636
02:16:02,224 --> 02:16:03,224
Okay.

2637
02:16:04,224 --> 02:16:04,624
Perfect.

2638
02:16:04,624 --> 02:16:11,224
So yeah, I mean, we do have some other ones here, but they're like, no, not really.

2639
02:16:11,224 --> 02:16:15,024
I mean, yeah, I guess we can sign out now.

2640
02:16:16,024 --> 02:16:17,224
We don't have a way to do that, though.

2641
02:16:18,224 --> 02:16:18,824
Yes, we do.

2642
02:16:19,024 --> 02:16:19,424
What is it?

2643
02:16:19,424 --> 02:16:20,224
Okay, great.

2644
02:16:20,424 --> 02:16:20,824
Yeah.

2645
02:16:20,824 --> 02:16:21,624
Good luck with that.