1 00:00:01,912 --> 00:00:02,752 Hello, boys. 2 00:00:04,752 --> 00:00:05,792 Hello. 3 00:00:05,792 --> 00:00:06,632 Welcome. 4 00:00:09,592 --> 00:00:10,692 Thank you, thank you. 5 00:00:14,592 --> 00:00:15,952 Good to have you here. 6 00:00:15,952 --> 00:00:19,272 As you know, we just, I just kind of hang out on Friday 7 00:00:20,232 --> 00:00:23,371 and answer any questions that the, 8 00:00:24,912 --> 00:00:29,912 that our sublime and serene community, you know, 9 00:00:30,912 --> 00:00:32,971 whatever they've got on their mind. 10 00:00:39,711 --> 00:00:41,152 I heard something happened with SWAN, 11 00:00:41,152 --> 00:00:42,511 but I don't know what it is. 12 00:00:43,392 --> 00:00:45,272 But whatever it is, I hope it's terrible news 13 00:00:45,272 --> 00:00:47,932 and they just go away somehow. 14 00:00:50,551 --> 00:00:52,912 I don't think it'll go away anytime soon, though. 15 00:00:52,912 --> 00:00:53,752 Nope. 16 00:00:55,312 --> 00:00:58,472 So, get used to it, Paul. 17 00:00:58,511 --> 00:00:59,351 Yeah, I know. 18 00:00:59,351 --> 00:01:01,671 Although the, whatever, the 200 million or whatever 19 00:01:01,671 --> 00:01:03,511 that they raised or whatever that was, 20 00:01:03,511 --> 00:01:05,871 that was like debt, so that wasn't. 21 00:01:07,831 --> 00:01:10,471 No, there's no way in hell that they raised 22 00:01:10,471 --> 00:01:12,232 anywhere near $200 million. 23 00:01:12,232 --> 00:01:14,072 But it doesn't matter. 24 00:01:14,072 --> 00:01:15,272 There are good people at SWAN. 25 00:01:15,272 --> 00:01:20,272 I think, maybe we can get them to hire Brad Mills. 26 00:01:22,151 --> 00:01:22,992 Yeah. 27 00:01:22,992 --> 00:01:23,831 Yeah. 28 00:01:26,791 --> 00:01:29,751 Are we waiting for something or are we just, 29 00:01:29,751 --> 00:01:30,592 what's the plan? 30 00:01:32,151 --> 00:01:33,471 Oh, no, I don't think, you know, 31 00:01:33,471 --> 00:01:35,191 I just think events of the week. 32 00:01:38,312 --> 00:01:39,431 I see HostFat is here. 33 00:01:39,431 --> 00:01:44,431 He was interested in my soft fork thing. 34 00:01:50,632 --> 00:01:51,912 Ocean found a block. 35 00:01:53,032 --> 00:01:54,032 Block number four. 36 00:01:59,712 --> 00:02:01,431 Yeah. 37 00:02:01,431 --> 00:02:02,751 I don't know. 38 00:02:02,751 --> 00:02:04,151 There's nothing to talk about Ocean, man. 39 00:02:04,151 --> 00:02:04,992 Like, I don't know. 40 00:02:04,992 --> 00:02:06,151 It's just a bunch of like, 41 00:02:07,312 --> 00:02:09,272 I actually feel bad for them. 42 00:02:09,272 --> 00:02:10,352 I do. 43 00:02:10,352 --> 00:02:11,191 I think, 44 00:02:13,831 --> 00:02:15,591 I think, I mean, I think something is, 45 00:02:15,591 --> 00:02:18,951 something is wrong in their comprehension of reality 46 00:02:18,951 --> 00:02:20,872 and that's never good because they're gonna, 47 00:02:21,031 --> 00:02:23,671 eventually they're gonna have a rude awakening. 48 00:02:23,671 --> 00:02:24,831 But it's okay. 49 00:02:24,831 --> 00:02:28,512 Well, it's a very competitive business, mining pool. 50 00:02:28,512 --> 00:02:30,992 You know, it's like very low margin. 51 00:02:33,992 --> 00:02:35,311 It's not exactly Apple. 52 00:02:38,272 --> 00:02:39,111 So. 53 00:02:41,272 --> 00:02:42,111 Not exactly. 54 00:02:43,111 --> 00:02:46,432 But yeah, if anyone wants to come up and ask a question, 55 00:02:46,432 --> 00:02:48,512 that's always encouraged. 56 00:02:48,512 --> 00:02:49,831 I guess it really has to be. 57 00:02:49,831 --> 00:02:52,671 Don't ask me when type of wizards, but we'll go ahead. 58 00:02:54,912 --> 00:02:57,712 Yeah, I just, kind of a slow, 59 00:02:57,712 --> 00:02:59,951 I mean, we had like, I suppose the New Year's. 60 00:03:01,031 --> 00:03:01,872 So. 61 00:03:05,072 --> 00:03:06,432 Don't remember a lot of interesting things 62 00:03:06,432 --> 00:03:07,671 happening this week, but. 63 00:03:12,831 --> 00:03:13,951 All right. 64 00:03:13,951 --> 00:03:15,352 That was great. 65 00:03:15,352 --> 00:03:16,191 Good summary. 66 00:03:16,191 --> 00:03:17,031 Yeah. 67 00:03:20,031 --> 00:03:22,992 Don't you, aren't you, what's the latest? 68 00:03:22,992 --> 00:03:23,831 I think that everyone's, 69 00:03:23,831 --> 00:03:25,831 there's two things everyone's talking about. 70 00:03:25,831 --> 00:03:26,671 One is the ETF. 71 00:03:27,992 --> 00:03:28,831 Yeah. 72 00:03:28,831 --> 00:03:31,512 And the second is, 73 00:03:31,512 --> 00:03:35,512 ordinals are having a pretty massive couple of weeks. 74 00:03:39,671 --> 00:03:40,512 Yeah. 75 00:03:41,712 --> 00:03:43,352 ETF, of course, is, 76 00:03:44,352 --> 00:03:48,152 in some sense, an inevitable consequence 77 00:03:48,152 --> 00:03:50,872 of Bitcoin succeeding, but it's also, I think, 78 00:03:50,872 --> 00:03:55,352 a, you know, what they call watershed moment 79 00:03:55,352 --> 00:03:57,072 or a fork in the road, maybe, 80 00:03:57,072 --> 00:04:01,232 because it comes with it, 81 00:04:01,232 --> 00:04:04,111 the danger that a lot of people don't really understand 82 00:04:05,311 --> 00:04:06,912 why Bitcoin is valuable, 83 00:04:06,912 --> 00:04:08,751 and they will be tricked into thinking 84 00:04:09,751 --> 00:04:11,872 the cosmetic, like the Bitcoin name, 85 00:04:12,751 --> 00:04:16,432 or some other surface level feature 86 00:04:17,632 --> 00:04:20,311 is the thing, and then, you know, 87 00:04:20,311 --> 00:04:21,792 buying Bitcoin in the ETF. 88 00:04:21,792 --> 00:04:23,151 But of course, there's a lot of, you know, 89 00:04:23,151 --> 00:04:25,672 the U.S. financial system is set up in a way that 90 00:04:26,871 --> 00:04:29,871 certain types of money can only be invested in certain ways. 91 00:04:30,792 --> 00:04:32,352 ETF is, of course, validating. 92 00:04:35,952 --> 00:04:36,871 What's all the ETF? 93 00:04:36,871 --> 00:04:38,431 I mean, the ETF is like, 94 00:04:39,352 --> 00:04:40,191 yeah. 95 00:04:40,191 --> 00:04:41,471 Paul, did you consider reaching out to, 96 00:04:41,471 --> 00:04:43,431 like reaching to an agreement with BlackRock 97 00:04:43,431 --> 00:04:46,591 to fork Bitcoin in ABIC 300? 98 00:04:47,471 --> 00:04:48,792 That would be pretty cool. 99 00:04:50,271 --> 00:04:51,112 No. 100 00:04:51,112 --> 00:04:53,031 Because that's the new made-up attack vector 101 00:04:53,031 --> 00:04:55,311 that the Laser Eyes are talking about now. 102 00:04:55,311 --> 00:04:57,112 They're saying that BlackRock could. 103 00:04:57,112 --> 00:04:59,392 Yeah, well, I think what some people noticed 104 00:04:59,392 --> 00:05:02,031 was that there was some very specific wording 105 00:05:02,031 --> 00:05:06,591 in their documentation that said something like, 106 00:05:06,632 --> 00:05:09,832 they will unilaterally choose which, 107 00:05:09,832 --> 00:05:12,311 if any, side of the fork to honor. 108 00:05:14,112 --> 00:05:14,952 Which is- 109 00:05:14,952 --> 00:05:17,031 Yeah, which, I mean, they have to, though. 110 00:05:17,031 --> 00:05:19,392 Is there another option of how to handle this? 111 00:05:20,711 --> 00:05:22,392 Well, yeah, it's actually unclear. 112 00:05:22,392 --> 00:05:25,591 But of course, I think the fear is that 113 00:05:25,591 --> 00:05:27,711 then it's just a way to just rug everyone. 114 00:05:28,672 --> 00:05:31,871 Say that whatever, Bitcoin Gold is the real Bitcoin. 115 00:05:31,871 --> 00:05:32,711 Yeah, I think- 116 00:05:32,711 --> 00:05:33,672 Something like that. 117 00:05:33,672 --> 00:05:35,552 I think it's an insane fear, though. 118 00:05:35,552 --> 00:05:39,031 So I think that, obviously, the incentives are, 119 00:05:39,912 --> 00:05:42,431 I mean, look, if BlackRock's goal is, 120 00:05:42,431 --> 00:05:43,591 like, you know, if they're like, 121 00:05:43,591 --> 00:05:46,471 okay, the new corporate mission is to rug Bitcoiners, 122 00:05:46,471 --> 00:05:47,792 then okay, I guess they can do that. 123 00:05:47,792 --> 00:05:49,112 But that's kind of absurd, 124 00:05:49,112 --> 00:05:53,392 considering that it's such a massive institution. 125 00:05:53,392 --> 00:05:57,672 So probably they're just gonna do what they think 126 00:05:57,672 --> 00:06:02,672 is best for their customers, I would imagine. 127 00:06:02,711 --> 00:06:04,112 But they need to, like, legally, 128 00:06:04,112 --> 00:06:06,072 they need to have the leeway to make a decision. 129 00:06:06,072 --> 00:06:09,711 Absolutely, I mean, of course, anyone, 130 00:06:09,711 --> 00:06:13,632 if they said we must honor every fork, 131 00:06:13,632 --> 00:06:15,512 then they have to, like, 132 00:06:15,512 --> 00:06:18,072 an unlimited amount of development time. 133 00:06:18,072 --> 00:06:20,191 And then if people have forks that, like, 134 00:06:20,191 --> 00:06:24,072 progressively steal a higher and higher percentage of coins 135 00:06:24,072 --> 00:06:26,191 or do some other weird thing, 136 00:06:26,191 --> 00:06:31,191 that will be, like, impossible for them to, 137 00:06:31,311 --> 00:06:32,832 oh, hey, I almost forgot, I have some news, 138 00:06:32,832 --> 00:06:34,711 which is that we have a testnet, 139 00:06:34,711 --> 00:06:37,392 a global signet coming out 140 00:06:37,392 --> 00:06:39,672 where people can play around with BIP300 141 00:06:39,672 --> 00:06:40,672 and they can play around with, like, 142 00:06:40,672 --> 00:06:43,792 the Zcash sidechain and other sidechains that we've made. 143 00:06:43,792 --> 00:06:45,632 You know, we have this cool little launcher. 144 00:06:45,632 --> 00:06:48,271 Should be out, I don't really want to, like, 145 00:06:48,271 --> 00:06:50,711 launch it on Friday. 146 00:06:50,711 --> 00:06:52,871 I feel like it's a bad day. 147 00:06:52,871 --> 00:06:55,512 So maybe, I don't know, Tuesday? 148 00:06:55,512 --> 00:06:57,392 But it's basically ready now. 149 00:06:58,431 --> 00:07:01,591 But I don't, but maybe I'll put it out later today. 150 00:07:01,591 --> 00:07:03,151 I don't know, after all, Bitcoin, 151 00:07:03,151 --> 00:07:05,552 when people are into Bitcoin, they're just 24-7. 152 00:07:07,311 --> 00:07:09,832 Then you can, everyone can try out for themselves. 153 00:07:11,792 --> 00:07:13,632 They can see what BIP300 does for themselves 154 00:07:13,632 --> 00:07:15,751 and then they will, you know, 155 00:07:17,151 --> 00:07:20,271 I think a lot of the critics will look pretty silly. 156 00:07:22,672 --> 00:07:24,871 But yeah, I'm excited about that. 157 00:07:24,871 --> 00:07:26,512 Okay, they already look silly. 158 00:07:26,512 --> 00:07:27,352 I know. 159 00:07:29,151 --> 00:07:31,311 They already are silly, but they don't do it. 160 00:07:32,031 --> 00:07:33,151 They need to look silly to more people. 161 00:07:33,151 --> 00:07:36,072 So that's a progress of a kind, 162 00:07:36,072 --> 00:07:37,871 as Christopher Hitchens used to say. 163 00:07:38,711 --> 00:07:40,112 I want to talk about that. 164 00:07:41,832 --> 00:07:44,711 Can of worms of what needs to happen 165 00:07:44,711 --> 00:07:48,311 in order for any type of consensus upgrade. 166 00:07:48,311 --> 00:07:49,792 Okay, we should talk about this 167 00:07:49,792 --> 00:07:51,512 because this is an ongoing lie 168 00:07:51,512 --> 00:07:53,232 that is being pushed to everyone 169 00:07:53,232 --> 00:07:56,591 that soft forks require consensus. 170 00:07:56,591 --> 00:08:00,232 The whole invention of the soft fork was because, in 2012, 171 00:08:00,232 --> 00:08:03,352 and I've presented at this at MIT Bitcoin Club 172 00:08:03,352 --> 00:08:05,832 and I can post, the slides are already posted, 173 00:08:05,832 --> 00:08:07,591 but I can like link to them or whatever, 174 00:08:07,591 --> 00:08:12,591 but it's laid out in extremely high degree of detail. 175 00:08:13,431 --> 00:08:16,191 The whole origin of the soft fork in 2012, 176 00:08:16,191 --> 00:08:18,991 which is that it's too difficult to get everyone to upgrade. 177 00:08:18,991 --> 00:08:20,352 It's too difficult to get consensus. 178 00:08:20,352 --> 00:08:21,792 So there's this, there's just, 179 00:08:21,792 --> 00:08:24,112 there happens to be, you pull a rabbit out of the hat, 180 00:08:24,112 --> 00:08:28,191 there's this wacky way where all that's needed 181 00:08:28,191 --> 00:08:31,711 is that, excuse me, most miners upgrade 182 00:08:32,871 --> 00:08:34,271 and they will always choose a block 183 00:08:34,271 --> 00:08:36,752 that follows the new rules, 184 00:08:36,752 --> 00:08:39,792 whereas the old user will be indifferent between the two. 185 00:08:39,792 --> 00:08:41,951 And so since everyone follows the heaviest chain rule, 186 00:08:41,951 --> 00:08:42,831 then everyone's on. 187 00:08:42,831 --> 00:08:44,752 So the whole invention of the soft fork 188 00:08:44,752 --> 00:08:47,232 was because it was widely recognized 189 00:08:47,232 --> 00:08:50,912 that it was, that there was no consensus. 190 00:08:50,912 --> 00:08:55,112 And now what's happened is sort of by the back door, 191 00:08:55,112 --> 00:08:59,511 a new blockchain has emerged in an abstract sense 192 00:08:59,511 --> 00:09:03,752 of just people being worried about maintaining code, 193 00:09:03,752 --> 00:09:06,432 people having seniority on GitHub, 194 00:09:06,432 --> 00:09:09,471 people doing various favors for each other, 195 00:09:09,471 --> 00:09:13,312 kind of what you might call log rolling and like favoritism. 196 00:09:13,312 --> 00:09:17,432 So it's, that has created an atmosphere where, 197 00:09:17,432 --> 00:09:19,112 and also it's like very prestigious. 198 00:09:19,112 --> 00:09:20,672 If you are now, if you get something merged 199 00:09:20,672 --> 00:09:22,752 into Bitcoin Core, you can like put that on your resume 200 00:09:22,792 --> 00:09:25,031 and like whatever, presumably raise money 201 00:09:25,031 --> 00:09:26,192 or something like that. 202 00:09:27,672 --> 00:09:30,951 And so what people do is they just think 203 00:09:33,391 --> 00:09:36,591 like we can't let anyone mess with this project. 204 00:09:36,591 --> 00:09:38,792 And so there's this whole new thing where 205 00:09:40,271 --> 00:09:43,112 in order to get anything merged into Bitcoin Core, 206 00:09:43,112 --> 00:09:45,792 you have to get consensus among like the maintainers. 207 00:09:46,872 --> 00:09:47,831 It's a completely different thing 208 00:09:47,831 --> 00:09:49,631 than consensus among all Bitcoiners. 209 00:09:50,631 --> 00:09:52,232 And so, yeah, this idea about like, 210 00:09:52,232 --> 00:09:54,031 will this get consensus, you know, 211 00:09:54,031 --> 00:09:58,912 will get, will CTV get consensus? 212 00:09:58,912 --> 00:09:59,951 Well, I think it never will, 213 00:09:59,951 --> 00:10:03,752 because it's very unstable if you have a situation 214 00:10:03,752 --> 00:10:05,112 where let's say that you divide the world 215 00:10:05,112 --> 00:10:06,792 into a big pie, a hundred percent. 216 00:10:09,711 --> 00:10:12,232 If it's the case, like there was this Polish thing, 217 00:10:12,232 --> 00:10:14,471 there was this Polish veto. 218 00:10:14,471 --> 00:10:16,511 This is widely acknowledged as being responsible 219 00:10:16,511 --> 00:10:19,151 for like the complete failure of Poland, 220 00:10:19,631 --> 00:10:21,271 which was like a great nation, 221 00:10:21,271 --> 00:10:22,112 but they had this thing 222 00:10:22,112 --> 00:10:24,672 where any individual person could veto. 223 00:10:24,672 --> 00:10:26,631 And so when a country wanted to invade Poland, 224 00:10:26,631 --> 00:10:28,711 they would just bribe one of these people 225 00:10:28,711 --> 00:10:29,992 to just veto everything. 226 00:10:30,831 --> 00:10:31,672 And the people would say, 227 00:10:31,672 --> 00:10:35,912 oh, we need to raise an army and whatever to defend ourselves 228 00:10:35,912 --> 00:10:38,352 and then they would say, they would just get vetoed. 229 00:10:38,352 --> 00:10:39,232 One guy would get bought off 230 00:10:39,232 --> 00:10:43,352 and then Poland would get invaded and that, you know. 231 00:10:43,352 --> 00:10:46,471 So it's, the consensus system is not a good system 232 00:10:46,511 --> 00:10:47,992 when you have like, you know, you have a hundred 233 00:10:47,992 --> 00:10:51,031 percentage points and then you say, 234 00:10:51,031 --> 00:10:53,151 anyone with 1% can block this thing. 235 00:10:53,151 --> 00:10:54,591 Well, then you're going to have, 236 00:10:54,591 --> 00:10:56,071 even if you have a wide agreement, 237 00:10:56,071 --> 00:10:57,872 like if you have 80%, 238 00:10:57,872 --> 00:11:00,031 you're going to have 20 different people 239 00:11:00,031 --> 00:11:03,711 who they each want to extract a big concession 240 00:11:03,711 --> 00:11:05,591 in exchange for dropping their veto. 241 00:11:05,591 --> 00:11:08,792 You know, they each want to be kissed up to. 242 00:11:10,872 --> 00:11:13,071 And so the whole thing, so I think nothing will ever, 243 00:11:13,071 --> 00:11:14,511 nothing really has consensus. 244 00:11:14,511 --> 00:11:17,271 And especially when a process is built 245 00:11:17,271 --> 00:11:20,112 where the input is, does it have consensus? 246 00:11:20,112 --> 00:11:22,992 Then it will all just be exploited completely by, 247 00:11:24,192 --> 00:11:26,872 and this is basically rudimentary political science. 248 00:11:28,071 --> 00:11:30,151 That's actually a very interesting point. 249 00:11:30,151 --> 00:11:32,872 Like literally SegWit did not have consensus, 250 00:11:32,872 --> 00:11:34,312 quite literally. 251 00:11:34,312 --> 00:11:36,831 Taproot, I would say, 252 00:11:36,831 --> 00:11:40,031 wasn't contentious as much as it was nobody cared. 253 00:11:40,031 --> 00:11:42,711 So that one didn't have consensus either. 254 00:11:42,752 --> 00:11:45,232 Let me interrupt you there just to say very rudely, 255 00:11:45,232 --> 00:11:47,951 but I had to pitch you my sort of, 256 00:11:47,951 --> 00:11:50,471 the Taproot is a ricochet off of SegWit. 257 00:11:50,471 --> 00:11:53,631 It was, the SegWit experience was so bad 258 00:11:53,631 --> 00:11:55,391 that miners felt guilty. 259 00:11:55,391 --> 00:11:57,591 And so they resolved to say, 260 00:11:57,591 --> 00:12:00,312 we will support the next soft fork, 261 00:12:00,312 --> 00:12:02,992 even if they had no idea what it was, 262 00:12:02,992 --> 00:12:04,432 which of course they did not. 263 00:12:04,432 --> 00:12:05,792 You know, we know, I mean, 264 00:12:05,792 --> 00:12:10,192 I know from asking both mining pool operators and miners. 265 00:12:11,151 --> 00:12:14,552 I mean, for example, you know, just recently, 266 00:12:14,552 --> 00:12:16,391 some of them were talking to me about BIP300. 267 00:12:16,391 --> 00:12:19,192 And they said to me, I already knew this, 268 00:12:19,192 --> 00:12:22,912 but they told me that we asked, 269 00:12:22,912 --> 00:12:24,631 well, when Taproot came out, we, you know, 270 00:12:24,631 --> 00:12:28,912 we started to ask our people who hashed the big hashers 271 00:12:28,912 --> 00:12:29,912 who contribute to our pool. 272 00:12:29,912 --> 00:12:31,752 We said, hey, what do you think of this Taproot thing? 273 00:12:31,752 --> 00:12:33,552 And they all say something like, you know, 274 00:12:33,552 --> 00:12:34,992 what is Taproot? 275 00:12:34,992 --> 00:12:36,591 Like they have no idea what it is. 276 00:12:36,591 --> 00:12:39,112 And we know that the SegWit people, 277 00:12:39,511 --> 00:12:42,391 the detractors knew nothing about it. 278 00:12:42,391 --> 00:12:43,631 You know, the haters of SegWit, 279 00:12:43,631 --> 00:12:45,391 they didn't really know anything about it, 280 00:12:45,391 --> 00:12:47,711 but the supporters also didn't really know anything about it. 281 00:12:47,711 --> 00:12:49,992 They didn't know about, you know, 282 00:12:49,992 --> 00:12:53,391 John Carvalho was on Twitter in like 2019, 283 00:12:53,391 --> 00:12:54,792 saying that he didn't know 284 00:12:54,792 --> 00:12:56,951 that it was a block size increase 285 00:12:56,951 --> 00:12:58,511 two years after it activated. 286 00:12:58,511 --> 00:12:59,831 So, and he, you know, 287 00:12:59,831 --> 00:13:01,271 all these people with the hats and everything. 288 00:13:01,271 --> 00:13:03,031 So sorry for interrupting there, 289 00:13:03,031 --> 00:13:08,031 but the Taproot one is a special case of powered by guilt. 290 00:13:09,151 --> 00:13:12,312 And it is, it had a fake consensus 291 00:13:12,312 --> 00:13:17,312 based on wanting to avoid conflict. 292 00:13:17,951 --> 00:13:19,352 So it had a consensus, 293 00:13:19,352 --> 00:13:20,912 but about something that has nothing to do 294 00:13:20,912 --> 00:13:24,071 with the actual, the technology. 295 00:13:24,071 --> 00:13:26,792 And in both the SegWit and Taproot case, 296 00:13:26,792 --> 00:13:31,071 it was activated by miners with people opposing it. 297 00:13:31,071 --> 00:13:32,711 Every soft fork has been activated 298 00:13:32,711 --> 00:13:35,711 by a hash rate super majority, 299 00:13:35,711 --> 00:13:39,792 with the exception of one or two cases, 300 00:13:39,792 --> 00:13:42,352 one of which was a Flag Day activation 301 00:13:42,352 --> 00:13:45,912 that had to manually be pushed back a few months 302 00:13:45,912 --> 00:13:48,792 because when the Flag Day approached, 303 00:13:48,792 --> 00:13:51,271 some miners had not upgraded. 304 00:13:51,271 --> 00:13:52,672 So they said, wait a minute, 305 00:13:53,872 --> 00:13:55,631 we have to push this back. 306 00:13:55,631 --> 00:13:56,912 And there were other cases where, 307 00:13:56,912 --> 00:13:59,631 such as BIP66, 308 00:14:00,792 --> 00:14:03,912 where miners said they upgraded, 309 00:14:03,912 --> 00:14:04,831 but they really hadn't. 310 00:14:04,831 --> 00:14:07,151 And then when push came to shove, 311 00:14:07,151 --> 00:14:09,992 the upgrade was downgraded. 312 00:14:09,992 --> 00:14:14,112 So the whole thing is a big mess. 313 00:14:14,112 --> 00:14:16,071 It's a big tangled mess. 314 00:14:16,071 --> 00:14:18,552 Anyway, sorry for interrupting you there. 315 00:14:18,552 --> 00:14:20,391 But yeah, I have to just make this super clear 316 00:14:20,391 --> 00:14:21,992 that the whole invention of the soft fork 317 00:14:21,992 --> 00:14:24,631 was to solve the problem of getting consensus 318 00:14:24,631 --> 00:14:27,151 among everyone, which is not possible. 319 00:14:27,151 --> 00:14:29,831 And it's not possible for just basic reasons 320 00:14:29,831 --> 00:14:33,432 of heterogeneous information 321 00:14:34,391 --> 00:14:36,192 and also just because of politically, 322 00:14:36,192 --> 00:14:37,912 people extract concessions, 323 00:14:37,912 --> 00:14:38,752 but we don't need to 324 00:14:38,752 --> 00:14:40,591 because the way the soft fork is coded 325 00:14:40,591 --> 00:14:43,031 is that it leaves the old nodes 326 00:14:43,031 --> 00:14:44,831 doing exactly what they did before. 327 00:14:44,831 --> 00:14:46,391 And so this is what everyone realized 328 00:14:46,391 --> 00:14:48,112 is everyone learned all this in 2012. 329 00:14:48,112 --> 00:14:49,752 But as you know, 330 00:14:49,752 --> 00:14:51,071 random new people show up 331 00:14:51,071 --> 00:14:55,112 and they get their information from whatever podcaster. 332 00:14:55,112 --> 00:14:58,112 And so that's the scenario. 333 00:14:59,112 --> 00:15:01,951 Okay, so Paul, would you agree 334 00:15:01,951 --> 00:15:03,831 that previous soft forks, 335 00:15:03,831 --> 00:15:06,711 the way that they truly worked, 336 00:15:07,552 --> 00:15:08,951 I mean, it was basically, 337 00:15:08,951 --> 00:15:12,271 there was one party who had good distribution. 338 00:15:13,312 --> 00:15:17,552 They had good relationships 339 00:15:17,552 --> 00:15:22,112 or relatively good relationships with miners, 340 00:15:22,112 --> 00:15:25,071 with businesses that are operating nodes, 341 00:15:26,071 --> 00:15:29,031 with some Bitcoin holders 342 00:15:29,031 --> 00:15:32,112 and they used their distribution channels, 343 00:15:32,112 --> 00:15:33,951 the Twitter account, the Reddit accounts, 344 00:15:33,951 --> 00:15:35,511 all of that stuff 345 00:15:36,831 --> 00:15:41,391 in order to reach a critical mass 346 00:15:41,391 --> 00:15:43,031 that is still a minority, 347 00:15:43,031 --> 00:15:44,872 but reach a critical mass 348 00:15:44,872 --> 00:15:49,872 that is enough to get the soft fork rolling 349 00:15:50,432 --> 00:15:54,112 and eventually have the miners protect 350 00:15:54,112 --> 00:15:55,471 people who did an upgrade. 351 00:15:57,352 --> 00:15:59,872 Well, I would divide it clearly into a couple of phases. 352 00:15:59,872 --> 00:16:04,031 So the first year there were seven soft forks, 353 00:16:04,031 --> 00:16:07,672 the first year being when Satoshi was still running the show. 354 00:16:07,672 --> 00:16:08,992 And so everything was small. 355 00:16:08,992 --> 00:16:10,591 So there was like different eras 356 00:16:10,591 --> 00:16:14,511 where there was less disagreement, 357 00:16:14,511 --> 00:16:17,312 but there was seven in the first year 358 00:16:17,312 --> 00:16:21,672 and then there were about nine until 2016. 359 00:16:22,672 --> 00:16:24,992 So there were quite a few, 360 00:16:24,992 --> 00:16:27,471 even in the second era when there was no Satoshi, 361 00:16:27,471 --> 00:16:30,271 but there was still stuff, 362 00:16:30,271 --> 00:16:35,271 whatever, Pagescriptash, BIP30 or whatever. 363 00:16:35,831 --> 00:16:38,631 So, but they were, 364 00:16:38,631 --> 00:16:40,071 those were like very simple things 365 00:16:40,071 --> 00:16:43,391 like put the Coinbase height in the, 366 00:16:43,391 --> 00:16:45,792 put the block height in the Coinbase. 367 00:16:45,792 --> 00:16:47,232 They weren't really that controversial, 368 00:16:47,232 --> 00:16:49,232 even like, you know, check lock time verify 369 00:16:49,232 --> 00:16:51,312 was just like, it's weird. 370 00:16:51,992 --> 00:16:53,151 I wonder how controversial something 371 00:16:53,151 --> 00:16:55,432 like check lock time verify would be today, 372 00:16:55,432 --> 00:16:56,951 which basically allows you to like, 373 00:16:56,951 --> 00:16:59,951 it's like dating a check in the future. 374 00:16:59,951 --> 00:17:04,951 It says like this transaction cannot be included in a block, 375 00:17:05,752 --> 00:17:09,192 like until this block height or until this date. 376 00:17:09,192 --> 00:17:13,072 By the way, can the host invite Hielo to the stage? 377 00:17:13,072 --> 00:17:16,631 I want to hear his opinion about CLTV as well, 378 00:17:16,631 --> 00:17:17,712 but go ahead, Paul. 379 00:17:18,712 --> 00:17:22,111 So if you divide it into these eras, 380 00:17:24,592 --> 00:17:27,912 SegWit was a very special case where you had, 381 00:17:28,832 --> 00:17:31,072 even SegWit was not really the, 382 00:17:31,072 --> 00:17:34,072 what happened was there was the block size dispute in 2015 383 00:17:34,072 --> 00:17:36,472 and it spilled over into, 384 00:17:36,472 --> 00:17:37,631 and it destroyed a lot of, 385 00:17:37,631 --> 00:17:40,391 it made the community polarized and there was no, 386 00:17:41,712 --> 00:17:46,712 in the past, the activation threshold was 95% hash rate. 387 00:17:47,111 --> 00:17:50,312 And this was, I think mostly it's just done as a courtesy 388 00:17:50,312 --> 00:17:52,751 so that no one would be left behind. 389 00:17:52,751 --> 00:17:55,832 It was like, okay, we all agree that we want this. 390 00:17:55,832 --> 00:17:57,792 We all agree that we will upgrade. 391 00:17:58,952 --> 00:18:00,231 We don't, we just don't know 392 00:18:00,231 --> 00:18:02,151 when enough people have upgraded. 393 00:18:02,151 --> 00:18:06,231 So we'll signal here and you get to 95, 394 00:18:06,231 --> 00:18:07,351 but there was no, 395 00:18:07,351 --> 00:18:10,472 there was no sense of someone blocking it until SegWit, 396 00:18:10,472 --> 00:18:13,712 there was a 9% pool after scaling three 397 00:18:13,712 --> 00:18:15,672 and they decided to just defect 398 00:18:15,672 --> 00:18:18,952 from Bitcoin Core completely, this blocked SegWit. 399 00:18:18,952 --> 00:18:20,912 And this created the new modern era, 400 00:18:20,912 --> 00:18:24,991 which is defined completely by the politicization, 401 00:18:24,991 --> 00:18:27,192 political football, soft fork, 402 00:18:27,192 --> 00:18:31,792 which is SegWit and Taproot and now nothing. 403 00:18:31,792 --> 00:18:33,952 And so I think, and of course, 404 00:18:33,952 --> 00:18:36,351 as I've pointed out a few times, 405 00:18:36,351 --> 00:18:39,231 from when SegWit was proposed, 406 00:18:39,231 --> 00:18:42,871 first proposed to when it was coded and then activated, 407 00:18:42,871 --> 00:18:45,472 that was 20 months in the case of SegWit, 408 00:18:46,271 --> 00:18:48,472 but in the case of Taproot, it was 46 months. 409 00:18:48,472 --> 00:18:53,472 So if you just, I think if you extrapolate that trend, 410 00:18:53,712 --> 00:18:57,472 you get a very, very long delay between soft forks. 411 00:18:57,472 --> 00:19:00,072 Although now you see that people reacting to that. 412 00:19:00,072 --> 00:19:04,952 They say, they say like, we, this is, 413 00:19:04,952 --> 00:19:07,031 this way of doing things is unacceptable. 414 00:19:07,031 --> 00:19:09,351 And they want, you have like Moonsettler 415 00:19:09,351 --> 00:19:12,031 and other people like militantly pushing 416 00:19:12,031 --> 00:19:14,312 the sort of faster soft fork. 417 00:19:14,312 --> 00:19:16,592 And then you have, you know, people like Luke who, 418 00:19:16,592 --> 00:19:18,151 I can't, you know, I don't understand Luke's, 419 00:19:18,151 --> 00:19:19,751 but I think Luke's a smart guy. 420 00:19:19,751 --> 00:19:21,231 And I think he knows a lot about Bitcoin, 421 00:19:21,231 --> 00:19:24,472 but he has this really weird combination of beliefs 422 00:19:25,712 --> 00:19:27,832 that are like miner, whatever miners do 423 00:19:27,832 --> 00:19:29,031 must be totally ignored. 424 00:19:29,031 --> 00:19:31,031 And miners are not users. 425 00:19:31,031 --> 00:19:32,631 He says the users have to activate the soft fork, 426 00:19:32,631 --> 00:19:34,391 but to him, miners are not users. 427 00:19:34,391 --> 00:19:37,751 Did you ever have a dinner with Paul, with Luke? 428 00:19:39,391 --> 00:19:40,832 I don't recall having dinner with him. 429 00:19:40,832 --> 00:19:43,511 Of course, I've met him in person a few times. 430 00:19:43,511 --> 00:19:45,592 Maybe we did have dinner once or twice. 431 00:19:45,592 --> 00:19:48,351 Dinner, maybe like lunch or breakfast. 432 00:19:51,111 --> 00:19:53,312 I think maybe we were at the same. 433 00:19:53,312 --> 00:19:55,312 Maybe, maybe, maybe Korean. 434 00:19:57,451 --> 00:20:05,451 It's possible. I think so. I mean, I've met him a few times. Like sometimes it's like, we had like, for example, a consensus in New York city back when that was a conference. 435 00:20:05,451 --> 00:20:13,451 I feel like what I want to ask you about is probably something that you would remember. 436 00:20:13,451 --> 00:20:22,451 Did you ever have, no, I'm sorry. There's like, someone's telling me a joke. It's unrelated to what I'm about to say. 437 00:20:22,451 --> 00:20:28,451 Did you ever have like a dinner at the pet shelter, maybe? 438 00:20:28,451 --> 00:20:39,451 Yeah, that's, that's very funny. I mean, I remember when Luke had, he used to have, you know, he's an interesting guy, you know. 439 00:20:39,451 --> 00:20:47,451 Sorry, Paul, I have a question. Have you ever tried talking with Adam Beck? 440 00:20:48,451 --> 00:20:52,451 We've talked to Adam Beck many times. About what specifically? 441 00:20:52,451 --> 00:20:56,451 Publicly, is there like a recording of you and Adam Beck? 442 00:20:56,451 --> 00:21:06,451 At Bitcoin Amsterdam two conferences ago, we did a big sidechains, like fireside chat. And it's like, it's pretty long. I think it was like 35 minutes or something. 443 00:21:06,451 --> 00:21:13,451 Just him and me and Aaron was there to like facilitate, which he did a great job. So you can look that up. 444 00:21:13,451 --> 00:21:23,451 I think it was called like the future of sidechains, Bitcoin Amsterdam. And yeah, of course, Adam Beck and I, I mean, it's Adam Beck in a way has been the only thing. 445 00:21:23,451 --> 00:21:36,451 He was like keeping this drivechain idea alive. You know, it's weird, because his company has been killing the sidechain idea, in my view, and, you know, sort of more or less misleading people. 446 00:21:37,451 --> 00:21:47,451 And yet he himself, maybe because of that, or in spite of that, I don't know. But he is, he has always been very supportive of drivechain. 447 00:21:47,451 --> 00:22:01,451 And in fact, at Baltic Honey, two Baltic Honey Badgers ago, he said, on stage, in front of everyone, this quote that I put on the site that was like, well, he says something along the lines of, well, we just spent like five years doing Taproot. 448 00:22:01,451 --> 00:22:10,451 But arguably, that is not, you know, very useful. We should could have done drivechain instead and had all this other stuff. Billions of UTXOs. 449 00:22:10,451 --> 00:22:21,451 I honestly could have watched paint dry instead. It probably would have been much more constructive than Taproot. But another request to the host, can you maybe invite Hampus on stage? 450 00:22:21,451 --> 00:22:29,451 Because he's like a toxic CTV double agent, nation state agent. 451 00:22:29,451 --> 00:22:33,451 I think I just found the cure for insomnia, by the way. 452 00:22:33,451 --> 00:22:41,451 Yo, are you still in Greece? 453 00:22:41,451 --> 00:22:45,451 Yeah, always. I can't believe this shit. 454 00:22:45,451 --> 00:22:54,451 No, because I remember that you flew to the wrong, what was it? Which wrong city was it? 455 00:22:55,451 --> 00:23:08,451 I was meant to go to Miami, Florida for the conference back there. And Craig's Craig's has booked my ticket for Miami, Ohio. But that was one one time only. 456 00:23:08,451 --> 00:23:15,451 Oh, my God. That's like something that's like a TV sitcom thing. And you think that never happens in real life. 457 00:23:15,451 --> 00:23:18,451 I know. Right. It's like a meme or something. 458 00:23:19,451 --> 00:23:32,451 And they're like, yeah, well, yeah, there's a lot of Athens in the United States. There's like a couple. It's like a Paris, Paris, France. I mean, Paris, Texas, I think people sometimes occasionally. 459 00:23:33,451 --> 00:23:49,451 You know what, Paul? Hearing you in these spaces for a while now, you started to grow on me, man. Like, I really want to meet you now. And like, I have so many questions for you. 460 00:23:49,451 --> 00:23:56,451 He's fairly tall, yellow. So you should bring a like a ladder or maybe like a chair. 461 00:23:57,451 --> 00:24:04,451 Do you come to Miami or Miami, New York or New Haven? There's Bitcoin meetups that I go to. 462 00:24:09,451 --> 00:24:13,451 Yeah, you have to come to the right Miami, the one, the one by the water. 463 00:24:14,451 --> 00:24:25,451 Oh, yeah. And that's what happens when you make crypto popular, everyone. This is what happens. Are you happy now? 464 00:24:27,451 --> 00:24:32,451 Yes. See, this is the thing. This is why naming is important. 465 00:24:33,451 --> 00:24:36,451 Yellow, did you actually go to a conference ever? 466 00:24:37,451 --> 00:24:38,451 No. 467 00:24:43,451 --> 00:24:44,451 Why would I? 468 00:24:46,451 --> 00:24:48,451 Where else would you meet all the podcasters? 469 00:24:49,451 --> 00:24:52,451 Did you know that I sent poop to Peter? Did you know that? 470 00:24:53,451 --> 00:24:54,451 Did I know what? 471 00:24:55,451 --> 00:24:57,451 I sent poop to Peter. 472 00:24:57,451 --> 00:24:58,451 What was it to you? 473 00:25:01,451 --> 00:25:02,451 Allegedly. 474 00:25:03,451 --> 00:25:04,451 Do you know who it really was? 475 00:25:04,451 --> 00:25:06,451 Yeah, I'm familiar with that strategy. 476 00:25:07,451 --> 00:25:08,451 Yeah, it's great. 477 00:25:13,451 --> 00:25:16,451 So, Hapus is coming back up or no? Hapus? 478 00:25:17,471 --> 00:25:19,771 ex -guy or something, but I'm taking credit. 479 00:25:22,211 --> 00:25:24,051 Yeah, I'm familiar with that strategy. 480 00:25:25,351 --> 00:25:26,691 it's great. 481 00:25:31,271 --> 00:25:33,011 Hapos is coming back up or no? 482 00:25:33,491 --> 00:25:33,691 Hapos! 483 00:25:35,776 --> 00:25:40,376 I mean, if he doesn't accept, then he can't, you know, you never know. 484 00:25:40,496 --> 00:25:42,336 people are like driving or something. 485 00:25:42,376 --> 00:25:46,956 What is using the LayerTwo Labs account? 486 00:25:47,416 --> 00:25:48,236 He's downvoting me. 487 00:25:51,576 --> 00:25:52,456 Who are you? 488 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,300 it's one the the fifth 489 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:04,300 of fifth of the fifth 490 00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:10,040 Do you have a vendetta against one to I What are you talking about started a vendetta 491 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,285 man? Now? It's like popular. 492 00:26:11,425 --> 00:26:13,065 and shit, like it's crazy now. 493 00:26:13,445 --> 00:26:14,545 I studied that. 494 00:26:16,145 --> 00:26:21,605 Oh, I mean, they're so weird and they are completely, they're the epitome of this fake 495 00:26:21,605 --> 00:26:27,305 thing where you have sinned in the past and then you become like a, 496 00:26:27,305 --> 00:26:29,229 you know, like a deranged, 497 00:26:29,229 --> 00:26:34,949 deranged priest, purely powered by guilt 498 00:26:34,949 --> 00:26:39,509 and inauthenticity. it's just so - Wait. 499 00:26:39,589 --> 00:26:40,069 you mean Cory? 500 00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:46,149 know that Cory, whenever I go in a tourist space, Cory's always in the audience as a 501 00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:47,174 burner account. Always 100 502 00:26:47,294 --> 00:26:47,914 % of the time. 503 00:26:47,954 --> 00:26:49,394 So I know he's listening right now. 504 00:26:49,594 --> 00:26:54,754 Corey is... I don't think he believes a single word of what he says. 505 00:26:55,074 --> 00:26:58,854 I don't think that he's actually 506 00:26:58,854 --> 00:27:04,434 trying to redeem his previous sins. 507 00:27:05,118 --> 00:27:07,918 I think you're right about that. 508 00:27:07,918 --> 00:27:14,158 I mean, I think it's more sociopathic even than that, where it's just, this is the script. 509 00:27:14,158 --> 00:27:21,378 But I think they reach the script via their past shitcoining. 510 00:27:21,378 --> 00:27:22,498 So it's just an extra. 511 00:27:24,258 --> 00:27:25,878 It's they, by the way, it's just him. 512 00:27:26,138 --> 00:27:29,098 literally duped every single swan employee. 513 00:27:29,418 --> 00:27:34,658 Like the rest are genuine laser Yeah, they just think that it's like, you know, they 514 00:27:34,658 --> 00:27:38,218 think that it's like some kind of chain code or something. 515 00:27:38,938 --> 00:27:40,560 Like it's like a pro Bitcoin company. 516 00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:43,340 And it's just like this weird. 517 00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:49,600 It's always fun to hear who they're trying to use and think 518 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,600 of non -legal words, non -legal trigger words to use. 519 00:27:58,683 --> 00:27:59,483 Like dupes. 520 00:28:01,843 --> 00:28:06,263 mean, like a lot of this stuff I would be, you know, I would sign an affidavit or 521 00:28:06,263 --> 00:28:07,303 whatever for a lot of this. 522 00:28:07,303 --> 00:28:10,843 It's pretty easy to establish, whatever. 523 00:28:11,063 --> 00:28:12,203 It's not going to make any difference. 524 00:28:12,563 --> 00:28:15,605 I don't know, you know what 525 00:28:15,625 --> 00:28:16,605 to say about that. 526 00:28:17,125 --> 00:28:22,105 But you know that Yellow had, it's true, had a long time, Vendetta against the 527 00:28:22,105 --> 00:28:22,685 replicators. 528 00:28:23,885 --> 00:28:28,765 Aha, well that's always a good feeling when your Vendetta starts to get validated by 529 00:28:28,765 --> 00:28:30,605 other people. congratulations. 530 00:28:31,905 --> 00:28:33,105 actually was in 531 00:28:33,147 --> 00:28:36,967 a poll space once ago and asked him about the replicators. 532 00:28:37,147 --> 00:28:38,567 And he was like, the replicators? 533 00:28:39,447 --> 00:28:41,207 He didn't know about it. 534 00:28:41,527 --> 00:28:41,967 I didn't know. 535 00:28:42,507 --> 00:28:47,127 I mean, well, I've read Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. 536 00:28:47,887 --> 00:28:50,107 And I was like, he's probably not talking about that. 537 00:28:51,209 --> 00:28:54,609 So I just went with a question mark. 538 00:28:55,589 --> 00:28:56,209 uh... 539 00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:58,829 Do you want tell us what they are? 540 00:28:59,089 --> 00:29:01,529 They're just fake Twitter accounts that aren't real? 541 00:29:03,349 --> 00:29:04,929 that's my favorite subject. 542 00:29:05,209 --> 00:29:05,869 What are you talking about? 543 00:29:06,249 --> 00:29:07,909 The replicators are from 544 00:29:08,172 --> 00:29:11,172 a far away universe, 545 00:29:12,552 --> 00:29:14,052 and we first 546 00:29:15,352 --> 00:29:20,792 made contact with them through the Stargate, and what they do is they infect your 547 00:29:20,792 --> 00:29:25,572 world, right? And they start replicating shit like macro, macro, macro, 548 00:29:25,694 --> 00:29:36,254 And all of a sudden, you turn around and it's like everything, it's like replicating it. 549 00:29:36,254 --> 00:29:40,414 And it's a thing, it happens every time. 550 00:29:40,414 --> 00:29:47,614 You can see up there in your timeline, in spaces where you can see some spaces are gray. 551 00:29:47,614 --> 00:29:50,814 Those are like all macro spaces. 552 00:29:50,814 --> 00:29:53,694 And they're replicating all the time and they're using sponsors. 553 00:29:53,754 --> 00:29:57,814 and shit like that fake money and they're longing 1X now. 554 00:29:58,554 --> 00:30:04,334 you know, replicate stuff and they're really, there 555 00:30:04,334 --> 00:30:08,494 are a different threat than not a lot people talking about it. 556 00:30:08,694 --> 00:30:11,474 Yeah, I've got a great book recommendation for 557 00:30:11,478 --> 00:30:13,938 you in which replicators are featured. 558 00:30:14,978 --> 00:30:19,578 There is a book called The Beginning of Infinity and there's two chapters called The 559 00:30:19,578 --> 00:30:24,098 Evolution of Culture and The Evolution of Creativity, which are about 560 00:30:24,098 --> 00:30:27,558 replicators. Have you read that? 561 00:30:27,858 --> 00:30:28,958 Have you read that though? 562 00:30:29,782 --> 00:30:30,542 Yes, I have. 563 00:30:31,242 --> 00:30:31,642 Right. 564 00:30:33,722 --> 00:30:33,882 do you think? 565 00:30:34,002 --> 00:30:36,522 going to be up here recommending some crazy book I haven't read? 566 00:30:37,442 --> 00:30:40,702 Wait, what do you think I'm going to stand up here and recommend a lightning roller 567 00:30:40,702 --> 00:30:41,762 that I never used? 568 00:30:42,342 --> 00:30:43,942 I? What am I, Michael Sander? 569 00:30:44,402 --> 00:30:46,522 am I? am I, Sifid Yeen? 570 00:30:46,742 --> 00:30:47,022 am 571 00:30:47,226 --> 00:30:52,046 am I, am I, I, am I, am am am am what what am 572 00:30:52,046 --> 00:31:04,830 am 573 00:31:04,830 --> 00:31:12,150 You would always be saying these like very, very tame things, Rusty Russell, they would 574 00:31:12,150 --> 00:31:15,790 always just be like, well, it doesn't really work if fees are high, it doesn't really work 575 00:31:15,790 --> 00:31:20,710 if you can't reach L1 in time, it doesn't really work for blah, blah, blah, a long, 576 00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:23,190 long list of things. 577 00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:28,470 And then yet, this is just the biggest sacred cow of them all, for to say anything against 578 00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:30,790 lightning is a heresy and a betrayal. 579 00:31:31,358 --> 00:31:38,318 Yeah, my experience is that actual developers who actually work on Lightning are very humble 580 00:31:38,318 --> 00:31:45,118 in how they talk about it and very down to earth and actually seem to be more concerned 581 00:31:45,118 --> 00:31:49,398 about using it than even I am. 582 00:31:49,398 --> 00:31:55,838 But then everyone else is like, yeah, it's like, you can't even, if you even dare say 583 00:31:55,838 --> 00:31:56,838 anything. 584 00:31:56,838 --> 00:31:57,718 Like, I literally. 585 00:31:58,142 --> 00:32:00,762 on Twitter Space like two years ago. 586 00:32:00,842 --> 00:32:03,222 said a couple of things about Lightning that I don't think it's working. 587 00:32:04,022 --> 00:32:05,002 Oh my gosh. 588 00:32:05,282 --> 00:32:11,202 was before I excommunicated myself from the laser I 589 00:32:11,202 --> 00:32:13,602 cold when I was still a cold member. 590 00:32:15,042 --> 00:32:16,691 And yeah, was not 591 00:32:16,911 --> 00:32:18,251 an easy experience. 592 00:32:18,591 --> 00:32:19,931 People took it very difficult. 593 00:32:20,631 --> 00:32:22,471 remember the yellow... 594 00:32:22,471 --> 00:32:25,451 You still are a of I'm still what? 595 00:32:26,451 --> 00:32:28,331 You still are a part of the cult. 596 00:32:30,911 --> 00:32:32,851 I mean, I started a new cult. 597 00:32:33,751 --> 00:32:35,191 We have our own cult 598 00:32:35,241 --> 00:32:35,521 now. 599 00:32:38,641 --> 00:32:39,161 don't think so. 600 00:32:39,441 --> 00:32:43,761 You're a part of the cult, but you like to say that you're not. 601 00:32:44,201 --> 00:32:44,681 I get it. 602 00:32:45,681 --> 00:32:46,441 thing is... 603 00:32:48,281 --> 00:32:50,101 you in the cult, Yellow or not? 604 00:32:50,681 --> 00:32:53,621 I am the prophet, You are the cult. 605 00:32:54,650 --> 00:32:56,210 Yeah, I am the cult. 606 00:32:56,810 --> 00:32:58,510 Okay, great. Yeah. 607 00:32:59,370 --> 00:33:02,470 So, the thing is, gotta understand everybody. 608 00:33:03,490 --> 00:33:04,830 As Sailor says, 609 00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:10,750 Bitcoin is like some kind of energy force or some shit. 610 00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:12,339 and like the thing 611 00:33:12,379 --> 00:33:18,219 is the lighting network is like droplets of that energy, I 612 00:33:18,219 --> 00:33:20,699 guess, if you think about it in the same way. 613 00:33:21,179 --> 00:33:27,099 then like liquid is like the vapor or some 614 00:33:27,099 --> 00:33:30,889 shit. I don't know, man, I'm confused too, but it worked. 615 00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:35,089 worked, so... It's pretty much the best, I think it's the technically accurate 616 00:33:35,089 --> 00:33:36,909 explanation I've heard. 617 00:33:38,189 --> 00:33:41,389 know, I also do mempool TA, if you're interested. 618 00:33:44,569 --> 00:33:46,909 you tell me... 619 00:33:46,909 --> 00:33:48,529 if it's head and mempool? 620 00:33:49,438 --> 00:33:57,438 No, no, no, you're so behind in fucking like cultural stuff, guys, come on. 621 00:33:57,438 --> 00:34:05,438 Mempool TA is an ever-growing new kind of industry forming around guessing the fees, 622 00:34:05,438 --> 00:34:08,438 where they're gonna go, up or down. 623 00:34:08,438 --> 00:34:15,438 So what I do is I pretend I'm an expert and I see the mempools spiking or dropping 624 00:34:15,438 --> 00:34:17,438 and I draw some lines to it. 625 00:34:17,438 --> 00:34:23,418 it and you know like now we have a descending triangle for me you 626 00:34:23,418 --> 00:34:28,238 know and they're gonna spike it a little bit but then we're gonna drop and consolidate 627 00:34:28,238 --> 00:34:28,658 more 628 00:34:28,686 --> 00:34:32,946 have 629 00:34:32,946 --> 00:34:38,926 to say this about 630 00:34:38,926 --> 00:34:39,934 being 631 00:34:39,934 --> 00:34:46,654 being a part of the Bitcoin industry, which is that it has all these colorful characters in it, 632 00:34:46,654 --> 00:34:51,934 which, you know, I really wouldn't trade it for anything. It is definitely tiresome at times, 633 00:34:51,934 --> 00:34:59,294 but when I compare this to, like, whatever university or, like, other industries, 634 00:35:00,574 --> 00:35:03,614 you know, in the ancient past that I may have been a part of, 635 00:35:05,262 --> 00:35:09,742 We just have like this crazy cast of characters here and people just get together and 636 00:35:12,802 --> 00:35:14,602 people are so funny, honestly. 637 00:35:16,362 --> 00:35:21,762 And that's how you co -opt that co -option of 638 00:35:21,762 --> 00:35:22,602 foodie. 639 00:35:22,814 --> 00:35:24,274 That's the only way. 640 00:35:25,294 --> 00:35:26,494 That's the only way. 641 00:35:26,594 --> 00:35:32,574 When somebody smiles and you don't like what he's saying, the only way is 642 00:35:32,574 --> 00:35:33,494 to smile back. 643 00:35:33,794 --> 00:35:38,094 Whoever is listening and is like beating about like what am I doing up here. 644 00:35:38,994 --> 00:35:40,174 That's what I'm doing. 645 00:35:40,174 --> 00:35:41,246 Okay. 646 00:35:43,266 --> 00:35:44,926 Well, yeah, no, it's a lot of fun. 647 00:35:45,026 --> 00:35:50,606 mean, because there's so much, the standards are so high, like you can get criticized 648 00:35:50,606 --> 00:35:53,366 by anyone in any way. 649 00:35:53,906 --> 00:35:55,806 And that's fascinating. 650 00:35:56,846 --> 00:35:59,678 And it's never a dull moment, 651 00:35:59,678 --> 00:36:00,718 moment, of course. 652 00:36:02,518 --> 00:36:08,038 you know, on that topic, I know that DLO is a distinguished 653 00:36:08,038 --> 00:36:13,978 member of many of the top leading laser -ion meme groups. 654 00:36:15,598 --> 00:36:18,110 you know, some people only, only 655 00:36:18,110 --> 00:36:23,950 only have, only get lucky enough or fortunate enough to be members of one meme group. 656 00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:35,310 But Yellow is truly bridging between all tribes and sects of Bitcoin meme tardation. 657 00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:43,550 And therefore, I want to ask you, Yellow, because I have actually a lot of people in my DMs. 658 00:36:43,742 --> 00:36:49,742 who are closeted ordinals enjoyers. 659 00:36:49,742 --> 00:36:53,742 So they still have the laser eye on their PFP 660 00:36:53,742 --> 00:36:57,742 and they're still pretending to be complete idiots in public, 661 00:36:57,742 --> 00:37:00,742 but they can't have their friends find out 662 00:37:00,742 --> 00:37:02,742 or their parents, God forbid. 663 00:37:02,974 --> 00:37:11,674 But in private, they go to Magic Eden and they sweep the floor every night and buy JPEGs. 664 00:37:11,674 --> 00:37:21,374 So, and they're talking to me, they're asking me for advice and, you know, which wallet should they use and how do you speed up transactions and what's going on. 665 00:37:22,734 --> 00:37:28,634 So my question to you is in your highly exclusive meme groups, do you see 666 00:37:28,634 --> 00:37:34,434 that as well or do you find that people cannot show their true skin 667 00:37:34,434 --> 00:37:36,814 yet within those groups? 668 00:37:40,554 --> 00:37:40,798 No, 669 00:37:40,798 --> 00:37:49,198 There are very few, but they just say it, we give them a little bit crap, but we don't 670 00:37:49,198 --> 00:37:59,998 care that much to be honest, we make fun of them a little bit, but it is what it is. 671 00:37:59,998 --> 00:38:03,678 Why don't you out those guys that are DMing you? 672 00:38:04,698 --> 00:38:05,758 I mean, it's their decision. 673 00:38:05,938 --> 00:38:06,618 would be cruel. 674 00:38:06,898 --> 00:38:09,998 Yes, their decision to decide when they want to make it public. 675 00:38:10,578 --> 00:38:14,238 Is it like having all the new gay thing now? 676 00:38:15,298 --> 00:38:18,758 Yeah, they're they're yeah, they're fully in the closet still. 677 00:38:18,918 --> 00:38:19,978 they can't show. 678 00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:22,318 And they're afraid that their parents are going to reject them 679 00:38:22,411 --> 00:38:26,091 if they know that they buy JPEGs and... 680 00:38:26,091 --> 00:38:27,591 God forbid, followers. 681 00:38:28,791 --> 00:38:29,551 yes, all the more. 682 00:38:29,711 --> 00:38:30,731 You're your parents are the rules. 683 00:38:31,411 --> 00:38:32,291 I don't get that. 684 00:38:32,291 --> 00:38:32,411 point. 685 00:38:34,111 --> 00:38:37,471 For me, know, I think it's stupid. 686 00:38:38,591 --> 00:38:40,504 From the other hand, I don't care 687 00:38:40,584 --> 00:38:44,424 if people do it, still Bitcoin, so. 688 00:38:45,364 --> 00:38:50,924 Randomly wanted to point out, if you have any real question or comment 689 00:38:50,924 --> 00:38:52,864 about anything, 690 00:38:54,304 --> 00:38:58,524 drivechain or or noz, cetera, then feel 691 00:38:58,596 --> 00:38:59,956 afraid to me off now? 692 00:39:00,656 --> 00:39:05,516 I'm saying that we want to respect the time of the audience. 693 00:39:08,256 --> 00:39:10,456 And I'm sure this is great content. 694 00:39:10,716 --> 00:39:12,916 This is rivaling Dave Chappelle, I'm sure. 695 00:39:14,576 --> 00:39:16,676 just wanted to throw it out there in case there's 696 00:39:16,689 --> 00:39:20,769 anyone with dying to know something. 697 00:39:21,469 --> 00:39:23,569 I don't have to wait until next Friday. 698 00:39:24,269 --> 00:39:25,889 What could they possibly ask me? 699 00:39:27,549 --> 00:39:31,049 Is there anything that someone doesn't know that I could answer? 700 00:39:32,129 --> 00:39:34,069 How to write a great tweet. 701 00:39:34,782 --> 00:39:39,702 That's actually remarkably easy. 702 00:39:39,702 --> 00:39:47,742 So what you do is, first, you create a lot of haters, right? 703 00:39:47,742 --> 00:39:53,822 So you just like go to all their tweets, reply things that they get pissed about, right? 704 00:39:53,822 --> 00:39:57,562 Just be super annoying to a very specific group of people. 705 00:39:57,562 --> 00:40:00,122 And then once they all know you as the annoying guy... 706 00:40:00,286 --> 00:40:03,686 They're looking at everything you say, right? 707 00:40:03,686 --> 00:40:05,686 And then you block them, all of them. 708 00:40:05,686 --> 00:40:07,686 100% of those people, you block all of them. 709 00:40:07,686 --> 00:40:12,286 So what they do, they're so pissed now, because they're really upset at you. 710 00:40:12,286 --> 00:40:15,086 And then you block them too, so they create a new account, 711 00:40:15,086 --> 00:40:17,486 and they put your notifications on the new account, 712 00:40:17,486 --> 00:40:19,486 because they hate you so much. 713 00:40:19,486 --> 00:40:22,886 And then what you do, you continue, while you're having them blocked, 714 00:40:22,886 --> 00:40:25,486 you continue to say things that will piss them off. 715 00:40:26,014 --> 00:40:29,614 And you know that it will ring their phone whenever you do it, 716 00:40:29,614 --> 00:40:31,614 and they'll show it to all their friends. 717 00:40:31,614 --> 00:40:35,614 So you don't actually need to do anything. 718 00:40:35,614 --> 00:40:37,614 They're going to do all the propagation for you. 719 00:40:38,854 --> 00:40:41,114 you just need to set the stage first. 720 00:40:41,674 --> 00:40:47,214 Find a group of people, make them hate you to their very soul, and then 721 00:40:47,214 --> 00:40:48,254 cut it off. 722 00:40:48,694 --> 00:40:52,714 Immediately, day, block all of will lose themselves. 723 00:40:52,714 --> 00:40:53,714 Udy stop it. 724 00:40:54,254 --> 00:40:54,934 How can I get 725 00:40:54,998 --> 00:41:00,918 a wizard how can I get a wizard that proved wizard how can I get it 726 00:41:03,078 --> 00:41:08,878 I mean if I knew I would have told you I literally don't know I don't 727 00:41:08,878 --> 00:41:11,758 know your people are here time 728 00:41:11,822 --> 00:41:13,882 to go bye 729 00:41:13,882 --> 00:41:19,282 yo 730 00:41:19,282 --> 00:41:21,542 do you consider yourself an oodiot 731 00:41:25,562 --> 00:41:28,442 you already left no no connecting 732 00:41:28,766 --> 00:41:29,966 Connecting. Hard braking. 733 00:41:30,146 --> 00:41:30,646 don't know why. 734 00:41:30,726 --> 00:41:35,866 I seem to have so much trouble with the stupid spaces on my phone and always kicking me 735 00:41:35,866 --> 00:41:37,506 out or braking or something. 736 00:41:37,946 --> 00:41:38,866 What do you want to ask me? 737 00:41:39,546 --> 00:41:41,346 You've got a new phone, but whatever. 738 00:41:42,066 --> 00:41:43,066 Life goes on. 739 00:41:43,206 --> 00:41:43,806 do you want to ask me? 740 00:41:43,806 --> 00:41:44,766 What do you think about Nostr? 741 00:41:45,470 --> 00:41:55,670 I thought it was a great idea to get all the laser eyes to move to another website. 742 00:41:55,670 --> 00:42:02,070 I thought it was a really awesome goal. 743 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:07,590 I don't think it succeeded, like they're still around, but it was a good attempt. 744 00:42:07,590 --> 00:42:08,670 I think it was nice. 745 00:42:09,138 --> 00:42:11,398 Network effects are just so important. 746 00:42:11,638 --> 00:42:12,998 Like why would Elon pay? 747 00:42:13,978 --> 00:42:19,718 Whatever that was 40 something billion dollars When you could just you know with like 748 00:42:19,718 --> 00:42:23,238 with like 50 million dollars you could just like poach some employees and make a 749 00:42:23,238 --> 00:42:25,598 comparable site Think about it. 750 00:42:25,678 --> 00:42:28,462 If $40 billion he would have 751 00:42:28,462 --> 00:42:34,462 instead bought Bitcoin for $40 billion, then he wouldn't have had to work at all 752 00:42:34,462 --> 00:42:36,702 and now it would have been worth 2X. 753 00:42:37,382 --> 00:42:39,642 He's definitely no sloth. 754 00:42:42,162 --> 00:42:47,202 He's got, he wants, he's like the guy when you're on a team project and someone 755 00:42:48,366 --> 00:42:54,366 has a very specific vision for the project and they're willing to do 80 % 756 00:42:54,366 --> 00:42:57,946 of the work and then everyone else just slacks off. 757 00:43:00,026 --> 00:43:05,606 Anyway, so the network effects are important so you can't just, everyone says, well, if 758 00:43:05,606 --> 00:43:07,150 we just get everyone to switch, but 759 00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:09,430 that little if never happens. 760 00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:11,890 I love Fiatjaf is great. 761 00:43:12,210 --> 00:43:17,370 Jaffa is one of the first people to acquire some serious prestige 762 00:43:17,370 --> 00:43:21,530 as an individual and a creator of Noster. 763 00:43:22,050 --> 00:43:25,890 He's not literally the creator, but he's like the lead guy, 764 00:43:26,494 --> 00:43:38,494 He's the lead owner responsible of Nostr, and he was one of the first to just be like lightning is a complete failure, we need to just get rid of it. 765 00:43:38,494 --> 00:43:45,494 And he's the biggest drivechain shill, he's an even bigger shill than me, he's made numerous public comments that are something like 766 00:43:46,142 --> 00:43:51,822 If Bitcoin doesn't merge, Drivechains, the whole project will fail, Drivechain is our 767 00:43:51,822 --> 00:43:52,822 only hope, etc. 768 00:43:52,822 --> 00:43:58,102 So it's kind of funny that he's a huge supporter of mine, I always feel a little guilty about 769 00:43:58,102 --> 00:44:04,222 I'm really not very active on Noster, I kind of have it on my phone and I don't really 770 00:44:04,222 --> 00:44:05,222 use it yet. 771 00:44:05,222 --> 00:44:11,062 Did you consider joining forces with Thea Jeff? 772 00:44:11,494 --> 00:44:16,634 and rebranding Drivechain as Noster Chain. 773 00:44:17,374 --> 00:44:18,194 keep it the same thing. 774 00:44:18,194 --> 00:44:19,074 That's a good idea. 775 00:44:19,674 --> 00:44:25,278 But you rebranded Noster Chain and you did Noster token and just like just 776 00:44:25,358 --> 00:44:29,738 just flow with it, know, just go with that and see where it takes it. 777 00:44:29,738 --> 00:44:30,778 That could be a good idea. 778 00:44:31,358 --> 00:44:34,218 mean, Noster relays the the withdrawal hashes. 779 00:44:35,618 --> 00:44:39,102 since anything can do that, you would just say yes and 780 00:44:39,102 --> 00:44:46,102 No one can tell him not to create the NOSTR token, like he's the creator of NOSTR, so he can do whatever he wants. 781 00:44:46,102 --> 00:44:50,102 And I think... 782 00:44:50,102 --> 00:44:55,102 You're like the Apple of Discord. This is like Udi, or whoever that was. 783 00:44:55,102 --> 00:44:57,102 Ares? 784 00:44:57,102 --> 00:45:01,102 These are throwing in chaos, mixing up chaos. 785 00:45:01,102 --> 00:45:05,102 Which I appreciate, because we need more chaos. 786 00:45:05,102 --> 00:45:07,102 It is chaotic, but also... 787 00:45:07,262 --> 00:45:08,942 think you would end up with Drivechains. 788 00:45:10,162 --> 00:45:14,342 What do you guys think about I think that's like true innovation in Zaps. 789 00:45:16,302 --> 00:45:20,842 Zaps? paying someone one Satoshi in 790 00:45:20,842 --> 00:45:22,562 Lightning? 791 00:45:24,845 --> 00:45:25,425 that's the innovation. 792 00:45:25,945 --> 00:45:30,125 mean, if that's what you're getting paid, most of us are not. 793 00:45:32,125 --> 00:45:34,785 Yeah, how much do you get per zap? 794 00:45:35,925 --> 00:45:37,665 Per zap, minimum 21. 795 00:45:39,467 --> 00:45:40,447 21 sat. 796 00:45:42,567 --> 00:45:43,167 Minimum. 797 00:45:46,127 --> 00:45:51,287 Well, I mean, know that it can't, the Lightning Network is supposed to be using these 798 00:45:51,287 --> 00:45:53,967 HTLCs so that people can enforce 799 00:45:54,750 --> 00:46:12,750 The channel, if anyone tries to broadcast old state and steal all the money, but to enforce an HTLC requires you to drag an awful lot of bytes on chain, you know, the pre-image, then it creates an input that you have to spend. Inputs are like 100 bytes. So the whole thing's like... 800 00:46:12,990 --> 00:46:15,170 kind of a lot. 801 00:46:15,490 --> 00:46:19,030 can be like, the whole thing can be half of a 220 byte transaction. 802 00:46:19,410 --> 00:46:24,950 if the transaction fees are like five, six dollars or ten dollars, then 803 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:37,510 It's just people forward the money based on reputation, 804 00:46:38,270 --> 00:46:40,510 Just thinking it's a small amount of money. 805 00:46:40,510 --> 00:46:44,510 But this is why we have few LSPs, 806 00:46:44,510 --> 00:46:51,070 because you have to lock up capital and you have capital at risk, 807 00:46:51,070 --> 00:46:57,310 and the fees that you collect will not be enough to offset the cost, 808 00:46:57,310 --> 00:47:00,470 which is why people instead just use a few LSPs. 809 00:47:00,470 --> 00:47:03,550 They do everything based on reputation. 810 00:47:03,550 --> 00:47:06,630 And a lot of what is supposedly a Lightning, 811 00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:08,650 this is ZAP is a perfect example of something 812 00:47:08,650 --> 00:47:12,630 where the name is deliberately chosen 813 00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:15,550 to make it seem like it's using the Lightning Network. 814 00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:18,910 When in reality, it is kind of, 815 00:47:18,910 --> 00:47:20,750 it's not really using the Lightning Network idea, 816 00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:23,750 it is using pre-established payment channels, 817 00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:26,590 but the money is just forwarded to, 818 00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:27,990 so the money is not routed. 819 00:47:28,446 --> 00:47:30,606 across this P2P network. 820 00:47:30,726 --> 00:47:36,726 It's just a middleman who is taking a cut 821 00:47:36,726 --> 00:47:40,326 and extending credit to people, basically. 822 00:47:42,346 --> 00:47:44,646 Anyway, we have a hand. 823 00:47:45,726 --> 00:47:46,166 Hello. 824 00:47:48,246 --> 00:47:50,426 Hi. Sorry, I was sick. 825 00:47:50,826 --> 00:47:52,426 My voice is a little bit cracked. 826 00:47:53,326 --> 00:47:55,866 Don't wonder. I have two questions. 827 00:47:56,446 --> 00:47:58,186 The first question is, 828 00:48:00,126 --> 00:48:05,125 I'm wondering what would be the scenario if really we get into a bull run, how 829 00:48:06,125 --> 00:48:11,785 affected with all those things where the people are complaining at the moment. 830 00:48:12,465 --> 00:48:14,865 example, ordinals or stamps. 831 00:48:16,845 --> 00:48:19,025 is your expectation in a bull run? 832 00:48:19,285 --> 00:48:21,185 How could it affect the market? 833 00:48:22,085 --> 00:48:23,645 where will the money flow? 834 00:48:24,165 --> 00:48:24,345 you 835 00:48:24,370 --> 00:48:26,130 be more specific about...? 836 00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:29,630 Because I have seen many bull runs, I do know what happens. 837 00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:33,590 throwing out their poll. 838 00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:36,050 gotta head out in five minutes. 839 00:48:36,310 --> 00:48:37,150 Yes, yes, of course. 840 00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:39,950 Thanks for joining us. 841 00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:42,510 If anyone has any UDI -specific 842 00:48:42,774 --> 00:48:47,754 questions or angry comments or whatever, get them in quick. 843 00:48:48,174 --> 00:48:48,814 Go yourself a week. 844 00:48:51,254 --> 00:48:51,994 That's a good question. 845 00:48:55,254 --> 00:48:59,234 Yeah. Yeah. So what do you specifically mean about the market? 846 00:48:59,754 --> 00:49:00,858 fees go 847 00:49:00,998 --> 00:49:05,998 up but people don't care because the price is going up so everyone just feels great. 848 00:49:06,618 --> 00:49:11,398 of really dumb stuff will get funded at that time because people will advantage of... 849 00:49:11,398 --> 00:49:15,818 But could it be possible that really Bitcoin reaches the limit and can be some kind of 850 00:49:15,818 --> 00:49:18,898 collapse because everybody is doing shit on it? 851 00:49:19,102 --> 00:49:26,862 Well, that's kind of a separate thing, but usually, yes, what happens is the blocks get 852 00:49:26,862 --> 00:49:31,902 very full during the bull market because everyone's buying and even people who have made money 853 00:49:31,902 --> 00:49:32,902 want to sell. 854 00:49:32,902 --> 00:49:38,502 So everyone is transacting and Bitcoin gets a lot of attention in the media. 855 00:49:38,502 --> 00:49:42,622 People post their favorite all-time high song on Twitter. 856 00:49:42,622 --> 00:49:44,182 People are partying on Reddit. 857 00:49:44,182 --> 00:49:45,822 So this type of stuff happens. 858 00:49:46,302 --> 00:49:49,662 in each bull market. 859 00:49:51,542 --> 00:49:56,382 But that's unusable that people really consider an alternative like 860 00:49:56,382 --> 00:49:57,262 Drivechain? 861 00:49:57,622 --> 00:50:01,422 Ah, well, I think actually, no, I would say not during the bull market is 862 00:50:01,422 --> 00:50:04,262 when everyone just feels happy. And everyone feels like it is working. And 863 00:50:04,262 --> 00:50:08,742 everyone feels like everything's going great. Okay. And then that is always 864 00:50:08,742 --> 00:50:13,022 followed, you know, it's followed by, you know, sometimes we have years of 865 00:50:13,534 --> 00:50:18,494 of it not going up. And then in that, in those cases, people get really, really miserable. 866 00:50:18,494 --> 00:50:21,774 And if you had high fees, and the price was not going up, 867 00:50:23,694 --> 00:50:29,614 there's always like a generation of people who made a bunch of money, you know. And there's also 868 00:50:29,614 --> 00:50:34,894 a generation of like desperate people who are the last ones in. And those people are, and these, 869 00:50:34,894 --> 00:50:39,774 those are the people who are like the laser eye podcast adherence today. This is like a huge group 870 00:50:39,774 --> 00:50:41,054 of people. 871 00:50:41,054 --> 00:50:46,054 that are new and that they have not made money yet, and so they are just kind of 872 00:50:46,054 --> 00:50:48,054 restless, you might say. 873 00:50:48,054 --> 00:50:58,054 But I think what will eventually spur people, I think, to adopt Drivechain is we'll put this testnet out. 874 00:50:58,054 --> 00:51:04,814 Eventually, the technology will be so complete and so easy to use, which is very close to this point already, 875 00:51:04,814 --> 00:51:06,814 where we have multiple sidechains. 876 00:51:07,326 --> 00:51:15,726 Privacy, scalability, extensibility, EVM, Ethereum, whatever, other things, Namecoin, messaging, etc. 877 00:51:15,726 --> 00:51:21,646 So eventually it will reach that point and it will be, you know, and someone will launch like, 878 00:51:21,646 --> 00:51:25,726 as you know, it's like a SkyDoge type thing, more and more people will launch, like Litecoin 879 00:51:25,726 --> 00:51:31,166 launched with SegWit. It didn't launch with SegWit, but you know what I mean, that they 880 00:51:31,166 --> 00:51:34,046 add it and then eventually there's, you know. 881 00:51:34,738 --> 00:51:36,038 FOMO in that dimension. 882 00:51:36,218 --> 00:51:37,858 I think that that is what will, 883 00:51:39,818 --> 00:51:42,358 I think the having also be rough for miners. 884 00:51:42,758 --> 00:51:48,538 we want people to be kind of upset and that will stimulate 885 00:51:48,538 --> 00:51:51,278 a search, creative search for new ideas. 886 00:51:52,018 --> 00:51:53,058 But when the price is going up, 887 00:51:53,282 --> 00:51:58,822 thinks. Oh, we have it all figured out Okay, so you don't think that it will impact it 888 00:51:58,822 --> 00:52:04,202 so much that it really some kind of Maybe collapse while the run because we're getting 889 00:52:04,202 --> 00:52:05,222 so much attention. 890 00:52:05,262 --> 00:52:09,022 Everybody don't expect that I did Maybe it's a crazy scenario. 891 00:52:09,022 --> 00:52:11,522 I wasn't sure this is why I'm asking professionals. 892 00:52:11,602 --> 00:52:12,125 Maybe 893 00:52:12,125 --> 00:52:14,125 I'm going to skip to my second question. 894 00:52:14,125 --> 00:52:21,125 I just saw that Luke was not really supporting Drivechain anymore, 895 00:52:21,125 --> 00:52:23,125 and I was wondering what's going on there. 896 00:52:23,125 --> 00:52:29,125 Maybe could it be interesting to invite him and to hear his opinion? 897 00:52:29,125 --> 00:52:31,125 I'm just wondering what's going on. 898 00:52:31,125 --> 00:52:33,125 I think I know already what it is. 899 00:52:33,125 --> 00:52:39,125 He thinks that he would never use – Luke is very – like Luke has – 900 00:52:39,125 --> 00:52:43,125 a lot of people have different kind of philosophical orientation towards 901 00:52:43,125 --> 00:52:47,125 quote the miners, end quote. 902 00:52:47,125 --> 00:52:51,125 Luke views them with suspicious – Luke, it's almost like a quasi-religious 903 00:52:51,125 --> 00:52:57,125 thing where he thinks they will always be tempted by sin and there must be 904 00:52:57,125 --> 00:53:03,125 consequences and monitoring to keep them on a very short leash. 905 00:53:03,125 --> 00:53:08,125 He's very miner skeptical and miner distrustful, 906 00:53:08,125 --> 00:53:13,125 and he just thinks that depositing coins into BIP300 is sort of giving them 907 00:53:13,125 --> 00:53:16,125 to the miners and that they might give them back. 908 00:53:16,125 --> 00:53:19,125 He doesn't really believe – you know, like I have laid out very clearly. 909 00:53:19,125 --> 00:53:24,125 I just do – this is how much miners can make in fees alone versus this is 910 00:53:24,125 --> 00:53:28,125 how much – this is the upper ceiling on how much could be deposited. 911 00:53:28,125 --> 00:53:33,125 And so a greedy miner will – see you later, Rudy. 912 00:53:33,125 --> 00:53:36,125 A greedy miner will want to keep it alive. 913 00:53:36,125 --> 00:53:48,125 So I only rely on the miner's greed for them to want to follow the BIP300 paradigm. 914 00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:57,125 And – but Luke just thinks that there's no – but Luke also thought back in 2017 915 00:53:57,125 --> 00:54:03,125 that the large blockers, you know, they wanted this combination of traits, 916 00:54:03,125 --> 00:54:08,125 this would give them what they want, and it would also keep the Layer 1 block size small. 917 00:54:08,125 --> 00:54:13,125 And so that was kind of like – that's kind of like been his position the whole time. 918 00:54:13,125 --> 00:54:17,125 So he thinks that people should – he says there's nothing wrong with it at all 919 00:54:17,125 --> 00:54:22,125 and people should be allowed to use it, but his own personal opinion is that 920 00:54:22,125 --> 00:54:27,125 he finds no use in it at all. 921 00:54:27,125 --> 00:54:32,125 I think that's the wrong criterion, but that maybe explains his perplexing 922 00:54:32,125 --> 00:54:36,125 combination of comments. Does that make any sense? 923 00:54:36,125 --> 00:54:42,125 Yeah, okay. I try to understand. I always listen LayerTwo Labs spaces twice 924 00:54:42,125 --> 00:54:49,125 because it's not always easy for me to proceed everything. 925 00:54:49,125 --> 00:54:54,125 Okay, great, cool. 926 00:54:54,125 --> 00:54:57,125 Well, we'll see if anyone else will come up. 927 00:54:57,125 --> 00:55:04,125 I have to get back to work myself shipping this testnet, but I do enjoy the Friday spaces, 928 00:55:04,125 --> 00:55:11,125 so if anyone has something they'd like to know about, then please come up. 929 00:55:11,125 --> 00:55:17,125 Recently this week I tweeted about what I call the Core Untouched Soft Fork, 930 00:55:17,125 --> 00:55:25,125 which is kind of like it's as – it makes each fork so that you can do it 931 00:55:25,125 --> 00:55:30,125 without changing Bitcoin Core, so it's really like a soft fork without a soft fork, 932 00:55:30,125 --> 00:55:38,125 without the political distraction of the soft fork meme. 933 00:55:38,125 --> 00:55:44,125 And this should really show people why it is the soft fork has the properties that it does 934 00:55:44,125 --> 00:55:54,125 because it is possible to basically add to the protocol by simply adding 935 00:55:54,125 --> 00:55:59,125 new pieces of software next to Bitcoin Core. 936 00:55:59,125 --> 00:56:04,125 So the Bitcoin Core piece doesn't really need to change for the feature to be activated 937 00:56:04,125 --> 00:56:08,125 for all the people who opt in. But yeah, I don't know if this is going to be very easy 938 00:56:08,125 --> 00:56:14,125 for other people to understand, but basically you could add a CTV by just running 939 00:56:14,125 --> 00:56:19,125 like a CTV software next to Bitcoin Core. 940 00:56:19,125 --> 00:56:22,125 So you don't actually have to go through the work of editing Bitcoin Core, 941 00:56:22,125 --> 00:56:27,125 figuring out what is the style guide, how have they refactored the code, 942 00:56:27,125 --> 00:56:31,125 what stuff are they doing. You just don't interact with them at all. 943 00:56:31,125 --> 00:56:37,125 You let Bitcoin Core be Bitcoin Core, and you add the BIP119 module. 944 00:56:37,125 --> 00:56:43,125 And then as long as you run both pieces of software, you're watching the network for 119, 945 00:56:43,125 --> 00:56:50,125 and then if 51% of the hash rate runs the two pieces of software, 946 00:56:50,125 --> 00:56:58,125 then it has activated for everyone and is safe to use. 947 00:56:58,125 --> 00:57:03,125 So that is an idea that I tweeted about. 948 00:57:03,125 --> 00:57:10,125 I think people will probably have very strong opinions about it when they finally get around 949 00:57:10,125 --> 00:57:19,125 to understanding it, but I think that's an interesting thing that happened this week. 950 00:57:19,125 --> 00:57:24,125 We see Klaus is still in the audience, and he's still going to be tweeting at me 951 00:57:24,125 --> 00:57:33,125 to look into Chia, and I'm still probably not going to because I just don't really see 952 00:57:33,125 --> 00:57:43,125 how it's relevant to anything that I'm working on, but I do appreciate his determination. 953 00:57:43,125 --> 00:57:53,125 And then, of course, if no one has anything that they want to ask, we can close the space 954 00:57:53,125 --> 00:57:58,125 because I do have a lot to do. 955 00:57:58,125 --> 00:58:08,125 So come on up quick. 956 00:58:08,125 --> 00:58:14,125 Okay, cool. Seems like no one wants to say anything, so we'll end the space. 957 00:58:14,125 --> 00:58:19,125 Thanks very much, everyone. Thanks to Udi for dropping by. 958 00:58:19,125 --> 00:58:26,125 He has like a billion great people who love and hate him on Twitter, so it's nice to have him in. 959 00:58:26,125 --> 00:58:30,125 And see everyone on Twitter. See everyone next week.