1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,000
Okay, so I don't know like what to do because like so who here has never heard of
Drivechain or BIP300 at all? Like that would be great.

2
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:34,000
So it's an idea for this proposal with Bitcoin that you would just be able to send
coins to a completely different piece of software and get them back.

3
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:41,000
And in that way, if someone says, someone asks you a question like, well, Bitcoin is
great.

4
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:51,000
Like some noob or someone that you, some random guy off the street, they say, well,
Bitcoin is great, but can it do DeFi or can it do whatever? CK snarks.

5
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,000
You just say, yes, it can because of BIP300.

6
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,000
And you just stop talking.

7
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,000
And because with BIP300, they can do whatever they want.

8
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,000
They create their own piece of software and then you have to send the coin.

9
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:10,000
It starts with zero Bitcoins on it and people have to voluntarily send the coins
over.

10
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:17,000
So you have this world of competing development teams.

11
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:24,000
You don't have the world that we have in Bitcoin today where everyone kind of talks
things out and then tries to agree on what's best.

12
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You have this world where all these different people compete and they're accountable
to the users.

13
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And if the users don't send coins over, then the project is a failure.

14
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,000
So that's kind of the idea.

15
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:47,000
If you don't know anything about it at all, we could do it like drivechain.info has
like an enormous amount of information that slowly keep adding more and more stuff
to over time.

16
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:55,000
And Drivechain is basically BIP300 plus BIP301, which is distinct line merge
mining.

17
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,000
And so we have software on the site that you can download.

18
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,000
We even have Windows versions, Windows EXE versions.

19
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:13,000
So you have no excuse for not downloading it and examining it for yourself to see
how it works, which is the best way to learn about anything.

20
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So I don't know.

21
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000
You know, we said like Drivechain Q&A, but half the people have never heard of it at
all.

22
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So I don't know exactly what that means.

23
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000
But those of you who have heard of it, I get lots of questions.

24
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000
That's literally where I was before I was today.

25
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:31,000
I was at the speaker dinner for the speakers at Bitcoin 2021.

26
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000
And people were coming up to me and asking me Drivechain questions the whole time.

27
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,000
So that's what I was just doing.

28
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,000
Through Socratic questioning, we can slowly learn about Drivechain.

29
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000
I think it is better if people ask the question.

30
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,000
OK, Austin, yes.

31
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:57,000
So if you have this base chain and then you have this sidechain, how can the miners
and the nodes on the base chain know anything what's happening on the second layer
chain?

32
00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,000
And how do we know when the withdrawal is happening if it's going in the right spot?

33
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,000
If it's being withdrawn in the right CX node.

34
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,000
You know what I'm saying?

35
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000
The design is the layers only go in one direction.

36
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,000
So you can ignore all the upper layers.

37
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,000
So if you wanted to know what's happening on layer two, you download the software
and run it.

38
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,000
And then it will tell you eventually what's happening on layer two.

39
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,000
What's the mechanics of withdrawing the coins back into layer one where they're
safe?

40
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,000
The trick is what a lot of people don't understand.

41
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,000
They are better on layer one.

42
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,000
I agree that there's no parity between layer one and layer two.

43
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,000
Layer one is better than layer two.

44
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,000
It's better to not have the coins on layer two because layer two is a risk.

45
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:48,000
Layer two also offers the opportunity to do these different things, the rate
signatures, CK snarks, whatever.

46
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:58,000
So what a lot of people don't understand is that it would be trivial to make it work
100 percent of the time infallibly.

47
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,000
And you could make it perfect.

48
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:08,000
We just said that it was a requirement that everyone who ran Bitcoin Core layer one
had to also run layer two.

49
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,000
You could make it mandatory.

50
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000
And then everything would work perfectly.

51
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:18,000
But what people don't understand is that that would be easy to do, but that would
actually be its own nightmare

52
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,000
because then you would be beholden to whatever the people on layer two want you to
do.

53
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,000
And they could make the block size an unlimited size or they could have all these
crazy ideas,

54
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,000
stuff involving secret keys that only the government knows and all kinds of other
nonsense like that.

55
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:41,000
So the trick is actually to try and do some kind of tradeoff where you don't, you
don't.

56
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,000
It is, in fact, possible to ignore layer two as much as possible.

57
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:50,000
And yet the people who use layer two still have assurances that they will actually,

58
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,000
some assurance that they will get their money back.

59
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,000
They get coins on layer two.

60
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,000
They will be able to redeem them.

61
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,000
You have 13 Bitcoin on layer two.

62
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,000
You'd be able to redeem it for 13 Bitcoin on layer one.

63
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,000
So your question is very long, but we have another question.

64
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:10,000
I'm just going to just cut you off right there because it's a bad attitude when you
ask the question.

65
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,000
Very disingenuous, disingenuous enthusiasm.

66
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,000
So we're going to the next question in row number two.

67
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,000
I think we were speaking a lot about RSK and MikroTik.

68
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:32,000
So I guess a good way to go into Drivechain is how you compare it or how it doesn't
compare or how it doesn't complement.

69
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:40,000
Yes. Sergio actually wrote an entire BIP for Drivechain and coded an implementation
in 2016,

70
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000
long before Donald Trump was elected president.

71
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,000
It was like a million, it was like a gajillion years ago.

72
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000
But the thing is, Ethereum is a good example because you have these two things.

73
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:56,000
One is people objectively want the new features, which is that people do like the
ERC20 token.

74
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,000
They like the NFT.

75
00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,000
People try to deny it or write it all off as like a scam or something, but I don't
agree with that.

76
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,000
But the other thing is, a lot of what Ethereum is, is a scam.

77
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,000
And it is mostly a narrative.

78
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:12,000
But either way, if you just say we're just going to copy it wholesale,

79
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:18,000
you just copy the EVM, the Ethereum virtual machine, into something, then you win
either way.

80
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:24,000
You have the features and also the marketing is sort of destroyed because people try
to shill some narrative about,

81
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,000
oh, Ethereum has smart contracts.

82
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:32,000
But it's like, we have our own BitEthereum that is like an exact clone of that.

83
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:38,000
So the mysterious thing with RSK, though, is that they have been working on this
since 2015.

84
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:43,000
And it's very hard for many people to understand what they have been doing this
whole time.

85
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,000
That's just my opinion.

86
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,000
I know I speak for a lot of people when I say, like, what exactly is going on over
there?

87
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:55,000
But they have been working hard on copying the EVM for the last seven years.

88
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,000
I don't know if that answers your question or not.

89
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000
But what was your question, though?

90
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,000
Yes, it was just to start the conversation.

91
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,000
The question is, how does it compare to RSK?

92
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,000
Yeah, well, so you would need it.

93
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:14,000
BIP300 is like the bridge from the Layer 1 Bitcoin core to some other arbitrary
pieces of software.

94
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,000
So one of those pieces of software would be RSK.

95
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:23,000
So, like, today it's a federated bridge, but with Drivechain it would be Hashrate,
Escrow?

96
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:30,000
The federation is, I think, a step backward because we had the whole innovation of
Bitcoin

97
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,000
is the dynamic membership multi-signature scheme of mining,

98
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:40,000
where you have this thing where it doesn't matter how many meteors fall from the sky

99
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000
and destroy 90 percent of the mining equipment.

100
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,000
You have a way of recovering from that.

101
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,000
And if 90 percent of the miners get arrested or whatever,

102
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:55,000
the system will recover from that error, for lack of a better word.

103
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,000
So this federation, it's just too easy.

104
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,000
It's just saying, we're going to just have these people,

105
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,000
these trusted few people are just better than other people and more trustworthy or
whatever.

106
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000
And they can steal all the coins at any time.

107
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,000
That's just not very creative to me.

108
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,000
And, you know, eventually it has a big scaling problem as well.

109
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,000
Like, there's a big difference between having $10 million, $100 million.

110
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,000
You have a federation of 10 people.

111
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,000
It's $10 million, that's just $1 million per person that you have to bribe.

112
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,000
But then it goes to $100 million, it goes to $1 billion, it goes to $10 billion.

113
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:37,000
Eventually it reaches a point where there's no possible way anyone could resist the
temptation to create the scheme.

114
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:44,000
So the better thing is to not have the federation at all and to have some process
that involves the miners.

115
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,000
The miners profit more when the network does well.

116
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,000
The miners are constantly on the hook to be as competitive as possible.

117
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,000
They're constantly going bankrupt.

118
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,000
Every two weeks the difficulty resets and fires the bottom 50% performers.

119
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,000
So they are, like, right in the margin.

120
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,000
And they're in a very precarious situation, actually.

121
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,000
And that's what we want.

122
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,000
We want to keep them in a very precarious situation where they can't cause any
trouble for us.

123
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,000
We want them to be worried about finding cheap electricity and not thinking about
anything else.

124
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:27,000
But also where if they start to do something wrong, the process will just correct
over time without anyone doing anything.

125
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,000
But if the federation, if it doesn't work, you have to find a new federation.

126
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,000
So I think that's terrible.

127
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,000
So someone might have heard about this project before.

128
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,000
Is it, like, a true sidechain?

129
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000
Well, that's what I think.

130
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,000
Don't say that out loud because, you know, it's a controversial, it's a hot-button
issue.

131
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,000
You can't say that out loud.

132
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,000
You can only say it, you know, man-to-man.

133
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:54,000
But I kind of do think that, but I'm not sure that that's a fair characterization.

134
00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,000
In my head I wonder about, like, where is all the other ideas of this nature.

135
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,000
So what you would want is for there to be something where it's the rules,

136
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,000
that the design of the project is being held up,

137
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,000
or rather I say the merit of the project is being held up by its design,

138
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:18,000
which is the design doesn't rely on any individual people to, like, do the work,

139
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000
which is the problem with the federation.

140
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,000
It's flowing from, the virtue is flowing from the people you chose to be in the
federation,

141
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,000
whereas if you caught it up with rules, then it's flowing from the rules.

142
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:36,000
And the rules are just objective rules that are independent of what any single
individual believes.

143
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:46,000
That is how it gets scaled, you know, horizontally and vertically into, like,
everyone in the world.

144
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:53,000
So that is what I would say, but I don't know how many people would agree with that.

145
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,000
Real quick, does anyone in the back have any questions?

146
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,000
We've got a lot of questions up front.

147
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000
Anyone in the back?

148
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,000
All right.

149
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,000
Go ahead.

150
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,000
We're in the back for a reason.

151
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,000
Okay.

152
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,000
I don't want to go too far.

153
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,000
Where are things, limitations, processes?

154
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000
Oh, yeah.

155
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,000
This is basically finished.

156
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000
So we have the software you can download.

157
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,000
As I said, we have Windows.exe files.

158
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000
It's reached that point.

159
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,000
So we have a nice GUI.

160
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,000
You go to drivechain.info slash releases.

161
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,000
If you just go to drivechain.info, it's the first link.

162
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,000
And that's what you should do.

163
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,000
You should not ask other people for their opinion.

164
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:33,000
You should just find a virtual box or something where this won't be harmed, you
know,

165
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,000
in case of a crazy person who's going to steal all of your Bitcoin, which most
people are like that.

166
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000
You just shouldn't run software just because someone tells you to.

167
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,000
But the best way to learn is to just run the software because we did work pretty
hard on the GUI.

168
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,000
The GUI tries to explain what is happening, and that is the better way.

169
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,000
I personally know that I didn't have a clue how Bitcoin worked until I downloaded
the software for the first time

170
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000
and received money from the faucet.

171
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,000
I waited for the six confirmations.

172
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,000
I was like, okay, now I have six.

173
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,000
Now I'm good.

174
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,000
And I closed the software.

175
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000
And then, like, two or three days later, I opened it again.

176
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,000
I was like, oh, I have like 400 confirmations.

177
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,000
I was like, what's going on?

178
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,000
Like, this doesn't make any sense.

179
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,000
So you can't really understand it until you use it, unfortunately.

180
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000
I think that's the best way to learn.

181
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000
And learning is the most important thing.

182
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000
We have a question all the way in the back.

183
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,000
How do you think about getting MIPS 300 or the 300 version?

184
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,000
I think it will take forever.

185
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,000
Yeah.

186
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,000
I mean, just look at how – look at the trend.

187
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000
Like, there used to be – I made a table and I tweeted about this.

188
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000
There used to be, like, every, like, quarter there was, like, a soft fork.

189
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,000
I'm talking, like, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.

190
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,000
And sometimes there were, like, even, like, three or five at the same time.

191
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:55,000
And now then there was a long – there was – we had a long, awkward period

192
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000
where there was only the one SegWit soft fork that was activated in a very –

193
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:05,000
or a very, I'll say, contentious manner in 2017.

194
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,000
And now we've gone from 2017 to today.

195
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,000
Still, Taproot has not activated.

196
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,000
It has – the signaling is in place, but it hasn't actually activated yet.

197
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:19,000
So if you just see the trend, it's just lengthening.

198
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,000
Without anyone planning it this way or without even passing any comment on it,

199
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,000
you just see that it's become harder and harder to get any change through,

200
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,000
even one that is not controversial at all, such as Taproot,

201
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,000
which really there is no controversy at, in my opinion.

202
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:43,000
And so this project does – it's just – it's the scale of what it affects.

203
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,000
It affects all altcoins.

204
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:52,000
It affects the people who today decide what does go into Bitcoin Core

205
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,000
and what does not has enormous effect.

206
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,000
So it's – I think it would probably take a while.

207
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,000
And definitely people message me, people running altcoins,

208
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000
they message me and they're like, oh, like,

209
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,000
can I add Drivechain to my project or whatever.

210
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:12,000
I think eventually it will be a very different route where you see other projects
will add it

211
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,000
and then everyone will get to see more about how it works.

212
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:23,000
And then just slowly it will become kind of – like either it will be proven

213
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:30,000
and then it will just like they have – they'll have to add it or it will just not –

214
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000
it will be – it will not pan out in which case then obviously they wouldn't add it.

215
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:38,000
But I think it will take a while and I don't think it will go through the way it has
normally gone,

216
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:45,000
which is long discussions, you know, like forever on BitDev's mailing list

217
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:55,000
and kind of a quasi guild-like monopolist something process that just like takes a
very long time now.

218
00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:00,000
And a lot of people are worried about how something will look or what it will –

219
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000
so I think that's just – I just think it will take a really long time.

220
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,000
But it will go faster if people download the software and learn about it.

221
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So if you would like it to go faster, you should learn for yourself exactly what's
going on

222
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and then talk about it.

223
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We'll do two more questions.

224
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Like 20, 30, 20, 40.

225
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Yeah, something like that.

226
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20 to 300.

227
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I don't know.

228
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That's a good question.

229
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So the other thing is, you know, I haven't actually finished it.

230
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We keep tinkering with it.

231
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So that would be the bottleneck obviously.

232
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It's not until I say that it's done that it could possibly be merged at all.

233
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Then you'd want to have a big testing suite.

234
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I would say definitely like not this year.

235
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I would say – I think it's possible that it could be in 2022.

236
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I think it's possible.

237
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I don't know.

238
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It's also possible that it could be like 2023, 2024, or some other number.

239
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One more question.

240
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Yes, you've got one.

241
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We have somebody else to ask.

242
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You've got the only one.

243
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Awesome.

244
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Is there like an active effort?

245
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:26,000
I mean behind BriteChain, is there also like an active effort perhaps to discuss
with miners

246
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that would be sort of like help to the security?

247
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:39,000
Well, it's become – ever since the Civil War, it's become a faux pas to talk to
miners at all

248
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or do anything that implies that they have power.

249
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So that would probably be counterproductive.

250
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,000
But the – yeah, I know a lot of miners.

251
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Like the miners just want to be told what to do, honestly.

252
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In fact, they even said this out loud.

253
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If you go to the Scaling 2 Hong Kong video in December 2015, which is on YouTube,

254
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this minor panel, they like have no idea what's going on at all.

255
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The whole time they were just like, someone just tell us what to do.

256
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000
So they're worried about their own concerns about like finding cheap power

257
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and finding reliable chip hardware and stuff like that.

258
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:20,000
So they're not – they're actually the least – and especially with something like
this

259
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where they would gain more transaction fee revenues and potentially a higher Bitcoin
exchange rate

260
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through the coin becoming multipurpose.

261
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They would be the – they're not the linchpin, so to speak.

262
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,000
So that wouldn't necessarily do that.

263
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,000
The better thing is to keep making actual sidechain software.

264
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Like RSK, a copy of different altcoins that are useful, of which there are a few.

265
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,000
There are really a few.

266
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,000
I like David Fork's project, the Sia coin.

267
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I like Zcash.

268
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:59,000
It's good to – things that are good to copy because it would actually be nice to
have a feature.

269
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So that would be nice to get something that people would actually use.

270
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That would be better.

271
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The miners, they just – and they don't even want to be in the center of any
controversy

272
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because it ended so badly for them.

273
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It worked out so well for them before.

274
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So I'm going to ask the last, last question, which is one of the biggest concerns
that people come up with,

275
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whether you call it concern trolling or legitimate, depends on your perspective, I
suppose,

276
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is like, hey, hashrate escrow is controlled by miners.

277
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:43,000
Why would miners just take all the coins if they have really high time preference
from a very valuable sidechain?

278
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I think Drivechain has some interesting answers to that question,

279
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:58,000
but my question specifically is can Drivechain security model be improved?

280
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Like I've sent you the Zendu white paper, which uses like zk-SNARKs to prove that
sidechain withdrawals are valid.

281
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So the payout process isn't actually controlled by miners.

282
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,000
It's more dependent on cryptography.

283
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,000
Have you looked at some of these other approaches, and what do you think of that?

284
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000
Well, I think anything can always be improved.

285
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,000
Anyone who says something can't be improved is a very suspicious person.

286
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So I think anything can be improved.

287
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,000
I do think that it's misunderstood.

288
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As I was saying at the very beginning, you could make it so that miners could never
steal.

289
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000
The whole point of naming it hashrate escrow is to underline the fact that that is
possible.

290
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,000
But that would be its own nightmare.

291
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,000
You don't actually want that at all.

292
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,000
So could it be improved?

293
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000
Yes, certainly I think it could.

294
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,000
I don't think, though, that anyone has come up with anything good

295
00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:01,000
because whatever you come up with will have to be something where either the hammer
has to fall somewhere.

296
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:07,000
Either you're forcing Layer 1 people to do more work with the zk-SNARK situation.

297
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:15,000
If you're going to use them to actually have teeth and do something, then it has to
be mandatory on Layer 1.

298
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:21,000
But then now you're screwing with Layer 1, which is a terrible thing to do

299
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000
because you can't mess with Layer 1.

300
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,000
People want Bitcoin to be safe from tampering.

301
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,000
So whatever you like, even if you wanted to do something that was, like,

302
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,000
a theoretically perfectly cryptographically secure sidechain,

303
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,000
it would still be the case that this new thing that you come up with is mandatory on
Layer 1.

304
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:46,000
So whatever you come up with, you have this problem that the hammer has to fall
somewhere.

305
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,000
And so it's intentional to push all of the stuff far away onto the Layer 2

306
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:59,000
because I want it to be the case that no one on Bitcoin Core ever suffers at all by
the fact that this exists.

307
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:05,000
And if anyone suffers, it's the people who choose to opt in and send their coins
onto this network,

308
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,000
like someone putting their coins on Strike or something, on the Lightning Network.

309
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
So they choose to put their coins there.

310
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,000
Maybe that has some convoluted zk-SNARK thing.

311
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,000
The problem with the improvements is the data availability.

312
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:28,000
So something can be very interesting computationally, but at the end of the day,

313
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,000
how do you know that, for example, zk-SNARK is working?

314
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:39,000
Well, you'd have to get all the transactions and download them and then do
computations on them.

315
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000
To see that the zk-SNARK is working.

316
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,000
So maybe the zk-SNARK works really well, but how do you know that zk-SNARK is
working in the first place?

317
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,000
Well, at the end of the day, someone has to just download all the messages and
process all of them.

318
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
So it's just like, where is the hammer going to fall?

319
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,000
That's the idea that I'm going to say.

320
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,000
So I just say it's all about responsibility.

321
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000
If you want the new features, you take the risk.

322
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,000
The risk is actually really low because in order for the miners to steal the funds,

323
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,000
you have to have three months of 100% of the blocks consecutively behaving,

324
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,000
which is, in my view, something that almost can't happen.

325
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000
But if you want to opt in, you bear the risk.

326
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,000
If you don't opt in, then you have no suffering, no inconvenience at all

327
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:34,000
because of the fact that 1500 exists on your Bitcoin core account.

328
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000
So that's the answer.