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space. Just turned it on. Let me invite everyone. This will take a second.

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Okay. I invited a bunch of people, so hopefully they show up.

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And just a reminder that we do these spaces in order to

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answer people's questions, because people do have a lot of questions. They have a lot of messages,

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you know. It's very wearisome replying to them all individually, so people can ask them here

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or they cannot. I mean, one purpose was to address the haters, which is kind of a waste of time, but

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it's still fun to do it anyway, because at least your supporters can see that the haters don't

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really have anything on you. But yeah, I mean, like a lot of haters don't even show up, so.

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But let me post. I forgot to even post it. Post it on my post.

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Post. Okay.

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And we've got Vlad. Let's move Vlad up as a co-host. Why not?

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And these spaces are often kind of slow at the beginning,

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but then at the end, they're a little better. I don't know. We may stop doing them, because

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I feel like the utility has fallen off a little. I don't know, Vlad, what do you think?

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I disagree with you. There is a lot of value in showing up, and I think that people need just to

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see that someone actually cares about what's being built and receive that reassurance that,

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unlike what some toxic maxes will say, this is not a scam. This is happening. This is building.

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This is shipping stuff that previously did not exist and was supposed to exist on Bitcoin,

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but that's not what happened. And maybe, I don't know, maybe I just enjoy listening to people every

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week in here, but I feel like there is something growing, and this grassroots feeling, like there's

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no professional marketing or whatever. It's just the creator of this, answering to all the questions

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and even dealing with trolls. I think it's amazing. I'm grateful that you're doing this.

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I might have to have someone else do it every week, and then I'll just pop in

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from time to time. But yeah, we're building lots of stuff. For example, there's now a second

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CUSF client that adds quantum-resistant signatures and will probably add a lot of other

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weirder stuff, like it might add OP_CAT. It might add OpVault. So of course, that's something that

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BTC could just take at any time, but we know that they won't because they're deranged.

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And just the whole 110 thing is a huge distraction and kind of an embarrassment.

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So we are building tons and tons of stuff.

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It's kind of hilarious, sorry for interrupting, but once you launch eCash next month, they will say,

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well, we can't take that because it's used by shitcoin. It's shitcoin tech. If it doesn't come

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from our sacred circle of high priests who are coming up with stuff, then it's just not good

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enough. So we have to figure out something new. It's hilarious because essentially eCash is going

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to be a shield against this technology ever getting adopted, which is kind of bittersweet,

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right? You built this for Bitcoin and you spent almost a decade pushing this.

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Yeah, that's true. It's not like I was pushing for it every single moment of the decade,

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but because I just kind of thought lightning would be fine or something else would be invented,

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and it turns out everything else is really terrible. I had no idea everyone else was so bad

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at this. But yes, so we could probably continue to do things, but maybe we'll have someone else

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host. Although each week we do get some interesting new stuff.

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Let's see if Shomari wants to come up and talk about all his stuff. He's always talking about

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this and that. He's always complaining about the bug bounty, even though it says to message

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on Telegram. He can't spend $2 to get the Telegram account. Just buy a burner Telegram.

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Oh, I thought I brought him up already and then he has to request. I don't know. The way they do

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this software, I swear to God. It's not that I'm complaining, but why is the Twitter software so

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bad? Although I guess that's the other big news is frankly that the Twitter algorithm is way better

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as of two days ago. Yeah, thanks for inviting me up. I do appreciate that.

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I do appreciate that. Yeah, welcome. Long-time listener, long-time caller.

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I really appreciate what's been going on for the past week with the Discord because it's really

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allowed me to be very engaging with many members of the community. Brand new Discord. I'm not

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running it, which is even better, so I'm not responsible for it, but I am on Discord.

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And yeah, who doesn't love a good Discord? Discord night with the boys, except instead

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of playing Call of Duty, it's to talk eCash without nasty Telegram and it's mean KYC.

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The horror, you know, the horror.

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Shomari, I don't remember. I didn't really follow up on your bug because I've been very busy and

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sometimes the universe just conspires against you. I wasn't really dwelling on that.

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I was looking to really get involved with the fixes, the bug fixes, and I'm still submitting

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issues, whether or not I'm officially part of the contest. I just really support getting this

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as prepared for the launch as possible. I just recently submitted another issue for the eCash

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Wallet Mobile to that gentleman. He's doing an amazing job, by the way. I just really

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am impressed with your team. That's good to hear. Yeah, definitely. We try to work them really hard,

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you know. But of course, it is also crunch time, so everyone can relax a little bit more like in

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September. But I was like, everyone, work hard now. Work hard like you have been working hard.

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But yeah, he's really great. Mobile app is pretty good. Mobile app is also great because you got

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your deplatforming risk. You got a lot of people who don't even use desktop or laptop. So, you know,

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people love the mobile app. Mobile app also, I mean, the mobile app is kind of dicey because

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it means that Apple or Google could just pull the plug on you at any time. But it's not so simple.

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I don't think they want to do that necessarily because they know that web apps and stuff,

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they know that the game theory doesn't completely support that. Yeah, and that's why web apps are

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so important. I know a lot of people will complain about the security risk, but it is a hedge against

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exactly what you just said. I wholeheartedly believe that their requirement as part of the

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wallet ecosystem to maintain those web apps just to hedge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, game theorist

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approved. Like we're all holding a pistol at each other and it's like, don't make me use this web

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app. Exactly. And then you do have F-Droid since your code is open source. That is definitely an

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option as well. Just on the Android side. I like Android personally. And then I have that, you know,

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I have blue bubbles. I have like all these hacks to like trick iPhone users into thinking I have

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an iPhone, which for me works just fine because like I've got plenty of like multiple Mac minis

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and stuff. You just, I got like a iCloud. I got all this stuff, you know, I've got all the Apple

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stuff so you can like fake it. But, you know, I think, well, we don't really want to get into

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iOS versus Android. Although, God, like Android had like the anti-spam call thing like three years

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before that. But anyway, so yeah, Shamari is great. Shamari has a sidechain idea.

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It's very interesting. Now, I wouldn't worry so much about Shamari. The people who have all the

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hashrate now would be basically Sat's scholar. So he can't make it right now. I happen to know that

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he dropped me a line saying he couldn't make the space. But for the dry run. The mining, the M1.

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He has been talking about this exact moment in time on the dry run site. He has, you know,

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whatever, a lot of hashrate. So, and just to be, oh yeah, but you can't be in Shredge and talk.

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Well, we're going to do something where we're going to have it. I think, do we have this

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working already? Yes, we do. We have it so that on Telegram and Discord across posts.

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It does. I've been following Sat's scholar. So I'll be more in tune with what they're saying.

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Yeah. Because I considered just renting my own hash just to get the M1 done. But to your point

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though, I mean, you immediately have to act and I definitely don't have the hash power to act.

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So yeah, the idea was that miners would be represented by pools, would be a small number

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of expert specialists. And then these pools would decide to enthusiastically support

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the sidechain. And then it would be, so that's the way the filter was designed

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to catch anything that wasn't already pre-approved by the human brain of the miners themselves.

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I have a very, I'd just like to rant about pools for a small moment, if I may.

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Can I just interject really quick, just one clarification, because I'm still not sure if

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I understand, how many acts do I need over the two-week, like 2100?

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Well, the dry run we have shortened it. In the real world, it's two weeks.

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So because it was supposed to resemble BIP-9.

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It's like 95%. So I read that somewhere, but I also saw like 50%.

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I think, well, the thing is, it's 50% in practice because of the so-called nuclear option.

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The miners can just filter anyone who doesn't signal.

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This is what BIP-110 is going to do, except they're going to filter themselves immediately

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because it's mandatory signaling August, whatever it is, 5th, I don't know.

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And so, in practice, it's always 50%. You can always turn 51 into 100, if you wish.

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I have no idea what that means, but I'll take your word for it.

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Let's say you have 51% and you say, I am going to act this chain and if someone else doesn't

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mine a block that doesn't act it, I'm just going to ignore that block.

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Oh, I got you. I see.

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I'm going to build on my own chain that has X.

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So if you do that, you will end up with 100%, which is what everyone will see.

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Now, there will be a lot of minority chain, but it'll have 49% hash rate,

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so it will never be chain active. So it will just be orphaned.

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I understand that.

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Got it, yeah. So 51 equals 100.

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Okay, we got a JK up here.

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Yeah, I just, I...

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JK Rowling. How many people have made that jump?

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Yeah, right. No, I was just wanting to comment on, I think Ishimori was proposing

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another chain to add on and just some, I guess, checks. Sorry if you can't hear me.

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Just some checks, basically, to have it be valid and under BIP300/301,

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things like committing the bundle hash in the header and things like making sure that there's

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only one bundle ever constructed at a time. I don't know if he took into account all these things,

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because I don't know, it's just...

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Yeah, I would actually love to just maybe quickly review a few things regarding that,

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because I wanted to clear up one thing that I really finally understand now with regards to the

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fees going to the L1, because initially it just didn't make any sense to me at all.

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Like, how would you sustain an L2 if all the fees go to the L1?

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But I'm essentially going to be following the Ethereum fee model, where they have a base fee

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and then a premium fee. So there'll be more than one fee, essentially. So all the transactions,

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every single transaction has a base fee, every 100% of them, and that would go to the L1.

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But smart contracts, you can program whatever you want into a smart contract, and that would have

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a second fee. I would call it a contract fee. And that's from the contract owner, author,

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to decide. And then that would then can also be shared with the L2 treasury, so to speak,

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to kind of sustain the actual sidechain. So I'm imagining there'd be two fees, a base fee

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and another fee, and the base fee would get 100% would go to the L1. And just also just

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finish my point to just extend some math that I worked out, because another issue I was having

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with your, I guess, proposed 10 cent fee, I just really never made much economic sense to me,

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because for me, Bitcoin, at least my Bitcoin from 2012, 2013, was all about microtransactions. So

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I was always thinking sub penny would be the unique value proposition of Bitcoin that no other

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currency could do. In terms of being able to do maybe gameplay, microtransactions. So just having

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really low fees was, to me, a requirement. So I just wanted a little counter on your

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expectation. I did some math, and specifically just using my proposed chain as an example,

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today, right now, with no optimization, the fork that I'm using is capable of 60,000

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transactions per second. If you were to just look at max capacity,

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and using the microtransaction model, let's say a tenth of a penny

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per transaction, which is pretty common, even lower than that, you're looking at like $60 a

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second in terms of capacity that the chain can produce in just L1 base fees,

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which translates, you just do the math, about $3,600 a minute and $36,000 per 10-minute block.

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So I think volume would really make more sense in a lot of these cases than just having

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a higher fee. I think stressing just mass transaction volume, but at a very small fee.

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I was more so just wondering, basically, when do you consider a block valid on your sidechain?

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Usually, for elements, it's like one-to-one whenever there's a block on the main chain,

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and then you don't confirm the valid block unless it has the hash of the previous BIP301

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commitment. So I don't know if you have an equivalent, like if you're doing one-to-one

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blocks in the main chain, or if you know, like, yeah, well, again, it's like the fees,

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there's going to be more, like the definitions are going to change slightly. So I have this

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written somewhere. I think it's in the white paper already. If you actually do check my site,

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there is a white paper that details a lot of this. But essentially, you would have, because

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the blockchain is two minutes that I'm using, two-minute block times from the native chain

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that I forked. So essentially, you just aggregate like five blocks into the hash bundle and then

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send that to the L1. So essentially, you're still doing block confirmations at two minutes,

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but then the L1 quote-unquote settlement is going to take 10 minutes. So it's just,

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I would say different levels of confirmation. So, you know, you have three levels actually,

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because the first level is actually at the transaction level, because we're planning to

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do like pre-consensus. So the transaction confirms, finalizes, I should say, in about

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two to three seconds. And then the, you know, all the transactions get aggregated into the block

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every two minutes. And then those five blocks get settled on the L1 every 10 minutes.

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So you are putting a... Sorry.

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I'd just like to say that I'm very in favor of all this stuff, even though I'm also a little

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skeptical of it, because I do think, I had this, a similar idea that you could have,

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you know, you can change the block time on the L2, and you can even use the L2 to like create

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like what you might call an L3. And you could have stuff over there to prevent double spending

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in other ways, such as people staking, and there's a lot of like R&D has been done on this

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stuff. So I think the compound fee is a great idea. I think the sub blocks,

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I think it could be great. I think it probably will work really well, especially if you have

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a situation on the L2, theoretically, where different people are willing to stake different

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amounts, and then it will all settle long before the three-month check-in is finished.

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So I think as long as you have that proof of work anchor in BTC, in the three-month anchor,

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you could build backwards in time from that, and you can make stuff that settles

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instantly. I don't know if this will be the...

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the final form, so to speak.

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I would just recommend that you, like at some point, find a way to anchor it on a hash in a block in the main chain,

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like before the withdrawal bundle is like active, I guess.

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Yeah, I think he's saying, though, that he does one-to-one, and then between the block, there's like four sub blocks also.

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Correct. Yeah, because the chain I'm using has native two-minute blocks, which work perfectly today.

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They've been running for four years now. So that works for the L2.

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And then in terms of the terms, I'm finalizing the terms, but essentially, instead of calling it a block confirmation for the L1,

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I'm calling it a block settlement, or I forget the name, but instead of confirmations are really for the L2,

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every two minutes, and then it settles like a final, you know, enshrined, and that's all just security.

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It's all just levels of security.

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So it depends on the transaction you're doing, how much security you want.

194
00:21:06,113 --> 00:21:11,314
So you might just let it, like for like a cup of coffee, you're just going to use, obviously, the pre-consensus.

195
00:21:11,314 --> 00:21:13,914
It's going to finalize the transaction in like two seconds.

196
00:21:13,914 --> 00:21:16,714
So that's for like just low fee.

197
00:21:16,714 --> 00:21:19,714
And then you'll have the block confirm every two minutes.

198
00:21:19,714 --> 00:21:24,513
That might work for like, say, the exchanges, I would think, as it does today.

199
00:21:24,513 --> 00:21:31,314
And then you'll have like the next level where it settles every 10 minutes, which maybe some exchanges might require or not.

200
00:21:31,314 --> 00:21:41,113
But it's just levels, you know, from the transaction to the L2 block to the L1 block.

201
00:21:41,113 --> 00:21:48,513
I guess just to clarify, like the hash commitment in the BIP301 message is sort of like what pays the fees back to the main chain.

202
00:21:48,914 --> 00:21:53,113
And then the withdrawal bundle hash is like separate, like for just doing withdrawals.

203
00:21:53,113 --> 00:21:55,914
So just consider both, I suppose, is my point.

204
00:21:55,914 --> 00:21:56,714
Oh, absolutely, yeah.

205
00:21:56,714 --> 00:21:59,314
And like Paul said, I mean, I'm catching up.

206
00:21:59,314 --> 00:22:01,513
I haven't been in this community very long.

207
00:22:01,513 --> 00:22:07,914
So I'm still understanding like how much liquidity and how that will work.

208
00:22:07,914 --> 00:22:14,714
And like, you know, he's mentioned it, but like just taking me a while to understand like the actual economics and the mathematics behind it.

209
00:22:15,313 --> 00:22:18,514
But no, it all seems to work.

210
00:22:18,514 --> 00:22:19,714
It seems to work very well.

211
00:22:19,714 --> 00:22:24,113
And again, I was concerned about like, you know, the incentives to the L1.

212
00:22:24,113 --> 00:22:31,313
And as I just did the math, you know, potentially, you know, you're looking at $36,000 a block to the L1.

213
00:22:31,313 --> 00:22:31,914
Yeah, I know.

214
00:22:31,914 --> 00:22:34,313
We currently have like basically zero.

215
00:22:34,313 --> 00:22:40,514
The BTC, I mean, BTC has basically zero dollars per block.

216
00:22:40,514 --> 00:22:46,113
I mean, I know it's not literally zero, but in fees, but it's very low.

217
00:22:46,113 --> 00:22:53,714
And the efforts to make it like a luxury good have all ended in complete failure.

218
00:22:53,714 --> 00:22:54,914
And it's just much easier.

219
00:22:54,914 --> 00:22:55,914
It's much more stable.

220
00:22:55,914 --> 00:23:01,113
Everyone has said this time and time again.

221
00:23:01,113 --> 00:23:07,113
You know, it's much easier to have a world where lots of people are paying a small transaction fee.

222
00:23:07,113 --> 00:23:10,113
The total transaction throughput is very high.

223
00:23:10,113 --> 00:23:13,514
There's nothing to do with the L1 block size at all.

224
00:23:13,514 --> 00:23:18,714
This has all been like, you know, discussed for like 10, more than 10 years.

225
00:23:18,714 --> 00:23:20,113
Let's see if we can get any new.

226
00:23:20,113 --> 00:23:30,714
Do we have any new people who want to come up or any skeptics or anyone who has got an axe to grind?

227
00:23:30,714 --> 00:23:32,113
I do have an axe to grind.

228
00:23:32,113 --> 00:23:36,313
People maybe have never found us before today because of the Twitter algorithm.

229
00:23:37,313 --> 00:23:39,313
Can I actually do make one?

230
00:23:39,313 --> 00:23:40,313
Yes.

231
00:23:40,313 --> 00:23:44,313
Which I have been holding.

232
00:23:44,313 --> 00:23:49,313
Essentially, I have issues with the Drivechains and Discord.

233
00:23:49,313 --> 00:23:53,313
You know, now that I'm chatting with people, I have been getting some pushback.

234
00:23:53,313 --> 00:23:57,313
And I had a really good conversation with some cat.

235
00:23:57,313 --> 00:23:59,313
I don't remember the name of the screen name.

236
00:23:59,313 --> 00:24:02,313
Yeah, he's very feisty.

237
00:24:02,313 --> 00:24:03,313
Yeah, yeah.

238
00:24:03,313 --> 00:24:04,313
He bites people a lot.

239
00:24:04,313 --> 00:24:05,313
It was wonderful.

240
00:24:06,313 --> 00:24:07,313
I want pushback.

241
00:24:07,313 --> 00:24:08,313
I want feedback.

242
00:24:08,313 --> 00:24:10,313
So pushback is good.

243
00:24:10,313 --> 00:24:17,313
But essentially, I just wanted to kind of clarify and justify the proposal also.

244
00:24:17,313 --> 00:24:29,313
Because for the sidechains, you've taken the model clearly of having specialized sidechains for each particular task or objective BitAssets.

245
00:24:29,313 --> 00:24:36,313
You have the Z-side privacy and for different things.

246
00:24:36,313 --> 00:24:41,313
But again, you haven't really done a general blockchain.

247
00:24:41,313 --> 00:24:44,313
And I did spend some time looking into elements.

248
00:24:44,313 --> 00:24:47,313
And it does have some additional features.

249
00:24:47,313 --> 00:24:48,313
But the main thing...

250
00:24:48,313 --> 00:24:51,313
I kind of don't believe in this whole general thing.

251
00:24:51,313 --> 00:24:54,313
It's kind of like, what if you had a Swiss Army knife?

252
00:24:55,313 --> 00:24:56,313
You see what I mean?

253
00:24:56,313 --> 00:25:00,313
The Swiss Army knife already has a screwdriver, a bottle opener, a corkscrew.

254
00:25:00,313 --> 00:25:03,313
They pre-predicted what you might need.

255
00:25:03,313 --> 00:25:04,313
A knife.

256
00:25:04,313 --> 00:25:12,313
And it's not just like, oh, here's a piece of metal that you could shape if you wanted.

257
00:25:12,313 --> 00:25:15,313
That leaves too much work to the user.

258
00:25:15,313 --> 00:25:17,313
The user should be the consumer.

259
00:25:17,313 --> 00:25:20,313
That's exactly where the advantage comes.

260
00:25:20,313 --> 00:25:25,313
The word I will use, the key word here is automaticity.

261
00:25:25,313 --> 00:25:32,313
To make everything atomic is very, very slow with the model that you have right now.

262
00:25:32,313 --> 00:25:34,313
It is very, very slow.

263
00:25:34,313 --> 00:25:42,313
And I don't see it being as useful as having one chain that can do everything.

264
00:25:43,313 --> 00:25:45,313
Well, you do one chain that does everything.

265
00:25:45,313 --> 00:25:50,313
But then certain use cases crowd it out because they muscle out the fee.

266
00:25:50,313 --> 00:25:55,313
So eventually, it's just you try to make it do everything.

267
00:25:55,313 --> 00:25:57,313
But in practice, it just does.

268
00:25:57,313 --> 00:25:59,313
Because the one thing...

269
00:25:59,313 --> 00:26:00,313
No, I'm kidding.

270
00:26:00,313 --> 00:26:05,313
This is where I think I kind of got a little support from the Feisty Cat.

271
00:26:05,313 --> 00:26:08,313
Where the one thing you're missing...

272
00:26:08,313 --> 00:26:10,313
Because I understand what you're saying.

273
00:26:10,313 --> 00:26:11,313
I totally support where you're coming from.

274
00:26:11,313 --> 00:26:15,313
But the one thing you're really missing is the ability to do smart contracts.

275
00:26:15,313 --> 00:26:24,313
And I feel like as though you don't really have a great value and appreciation for just how much...

276
00:26:24,313 --> 00:26:27,313
How valuable it is to have the ability to do smart contracts.

277
00:26:27,313 --> 00:26:28,313
And right now...

278
00:26:28,313 --> 00:26:32,313
Yeah, because, you know, I have the good names a bit active.

279
00:26:32,313 --> 00:26:39,313
And it's kind of like the way I see it, those are the smart contracts that people actually use in Ethereum.

280
00:26:39,313 --> 00:26:43,313
Now, of course, I'm sure there's some...

281
00:26:43,313 --> 00:26:44,313
No, no, no.

282
00:26:44,313 --> 00:26:50,313
None of the Drivechains have any programmability.

283
00:26:50,313 --> 00:26:52,313
But what do people actually do with Ethereum?

284
00:26:52,313 --> 00:26:56,313
Is they mint ERC-20 and then they buy it from each other?

285
00:26:56,313 --> 00:26:58,313
And then you don't even need the program.

286
00:26:58,313 --> 00:27:00,313
No, yes, you do.

287
00:27:00,313 --> 00:27:01,313
You absolutely do.

288
00:27:01,313 --> 00:27:02,313
Because how do they do it?

289
00:27:02,313 --> 00:27:03,313
It's all through smart contracts.

290
00:27:03,313 --> 00:27:06,313
I mean, I've never seen it not be through a smart contract.

291
00:27:06,313 --> 00:27:07,313
So that's what I'm trying to...

292
00:27:07,313 --> 00:27:11,313
I don't even know who does it any other way besides using smart...

293
00:27:11,313 --> 00:27:13,313
You're half right when you say that.

294
00:27:13,313 --> 00:27:15,313
But then I feel like it's just incomplete.

295
00:27:15,313 --> 00:27:18,313
I don't know if it's just from not being involved in those communities.

296
00:27:18,313 --> 00:27:22,313
But you seem to be devaluing the importance of smart contracts.

297
00:27:22,313 --> 00:27:25,313
And I'm baffled, completely baffled by that.

298
00:27:25,313 --> 00:27:27,313
So that's my little critique, my pushback.

299
00:27:27,313 --> 00:27:32,313
It's all been built so that anyone can, as you know, anyone can launch any L2.

300
00:27:33,313 --> 00:27:37,313
I think we will have an EVM.

301
00:27:37,313 --> 00:27:43,313
There's like a new Rust EVM thing that's like super good or whatever.

302
00:27:43,313 --> 00:27:45,313
So we might have that.

303
00:27:45,313 --> 00:27:46,313
We might have...

304
00:27:46,313 --> 00:27:51,313
We'll probably have Shomari's L2, which I'm sure he's going to put everything he wants in there.

305
00:27:51,313 --> 00:27:53,313
And I think...

306
00:27:53,313 --> 00:27:55,313
That's great.

307
00:27:55,313 --> 00:27:57,313
So, okay, now I keep...

308
00:27:57,313 --> 00:27:58,313
People keep requesting.

309
00:27:58,313 --> 00:27:59,313
I click accept.

310
00:27:59,313 --> 00:28:00,313
This might be because...

311
00:28:00,313 --> 00:28:03,313
I don't know if Vlad has blocked someone.

312
00:28:03,313 --> 00:28:05,313
Sometimes I click accept.

313
00:28:05,313 --> 00:28:07,313
And then they click request.

314
00:28:07,313 --> 00:28:08,313
I click accept.

315
00:28:08,313 --> 00:28:09,313
And then we never...

316
00:28:09,313 --> 00:28:11,313
They just disappear out of the space.

317
00:28:11,313 --> 00:28:13,313
And we never see them again.

318
00:28:13,313 --> 00:28:16,313
But I've also blocked a lot of people.

319
00:28:16,313 --> 00:28:20,313
Because if someone blocks me on X on Twitter...

320
00:28:20,313 --> 00:28:21,313
Oh, he's up here now.

321
00:28:21,313 --> 00:28:22,313
Okay, great.

322
00:28:22,313 --> 00:28:23,313
I don't know.

323
00:28:23,313 --> 00:28:26,313
It's just the madness of this app and how weird the design is.

324
00:28:26,313 --> 00:28:34,314
Just to the makers of this app, when you click accept, the person should, like, go into, like, a little waiting room box so that you can see what happened to them.

325
00:28:34,314 --> 00:28:41,314
And then they come on stage because it's extremely confusing.

326
00:28:41,314 --> 00:28:51,314
Hopefully, XAI is reporting all the notifications and training their AI on it so they can incorporate the feedback.

327
00:28:51,314 --> 00:28:52,314
Anyways.

328
00:28:52,314 --> 00:28:54,314
Anyway, welcome to the stage.

329
00:28:54,314 --> 00:28:57,314
Let me wrap up, though, by saying...

330
00:28:57,314 --> 00:28:58,314
People can launch their own L2.

331
00:28:58,314 --> 00:29:01,314
We probably will have EVM L2, like, later this week.

332
00:29:01,314 --> 00:29:03,314
God, I hate every time I say that.

333
00:29:03,314 --> 00:29:05,314
It's like a curse.

334
00:29:05,314 --> 00:29:07,314
Because that takes forever.

335
00:29:07,314 --> 00:29:11,314
But I'm not...

336
00:29:11,314 --> 00:29:12,314
It's true.

337
00:29:12,314 --> 00:29:13,314
Shomari is right.

338
00:29:13,314 --> 00:29:16,314
I think the EVM sucks.

339
00:29:16,314 --> 00:29:17,314
And I don't like it at all.

340
00:29:17,314 --> 00:29:19,314
And I think it's overrated.

341
00:29:19,314 --> 00:29:23,314
But is that just me being curmudgeonly?

342
00:29:24,314 --> 00:29:26,314
You should look at the fees, though.

343
00:29:26,314 --> 00:29:28,314
But you know the fees.

344
00:29:28,314 --> 00:29:29,314
You do.

345
00:29:29,314 --> 00:29:31,314
Yeah, I do.

346
00:29:31,314 --> 00:29:32,314
But I think those are the fees.

347
00:29:32,314 --> 00:29:33,314
Those are the fees of freedom.

348
00:29:33,314 --> 00:29:39,314
Those are the fees of people saying that they want to do whatever they want to do.

349
00:29:39,314 --> 00:29:43,314
BTC is, like, not going to let them do it.

350
00:29:43,314 --> 00:29:45,314
So...

351
00:29:45,314 --> 00:29:46,314
And...

352
00:29:46,314 --> 00:29:48,314
I'm telling you, it's at least...

353
00:29:48,314 --> 00:29:50,314
Ethereum is the rival party.

354
00:29:50,314 --> 00:29:57,314
I would say at least 75% of Ethereum transactions are not sending ETH.

355
00:29:57,314 --> 00:29:59,314
They're just something else.

356
00:29:59,314 --> 00:30:01,314
And that else is what is missing.

357
00:30:01,314 --> 00:30:02,314
That's all I'll say.

358
00:30:02,314 --> 00:30:03,314
I know that.

359
00:30:03,314 --> 00:30:05,314
Yeah, no, I've been saying that.

360
00:30:05,314 --> 00:30:06,314
I was in 2021.

361
00:30:06,314 --> 00:30:13,314
I was talking about how if you could divide fiat value of one day...

362
00:30:13,314 --> 00:30:15,314
How many fees earned in a day?

363
00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:17,314
Ethereum versus BTC.

364
00:30:17,314 --> 00:30:19,314
Ethereum went from...

365
00:30:19,314 --> 00:30:21,314
You can have a log chart.

366
00:30:21,314 --> 00:30:22,314
Log base 10.

367
00:30:22,314 --> 00:30:31,314
And Ethereum went from, like, 1,000th to, like, past 1 to 1 to 1 to 100 in, like, 2021.

368
00:30:31,314 --> 00:30:33,314
And it looked like it would just keep marching up.

369
00:30:33,314 --> 00:30:34,314
I haven't looked recently.

370
00:30:34,314 --> 00:30:35,314
But the point is...

371
00:30:35,314 --> 00:30:36,314
It's always...

372
00:30:36,314 --> 00:30:39,314
Anyone can look at cryptofees.info.

373
00:30:39,314 --> 00:30:40,314
Oh, no.

374
00:30:40,314 --> 00:30:42,314
I just invited him on the stage.

375
00:30:42,314 --> 00:30:45,314
And then he, like, had a weird connection thing.

376
00:30:45,314 --> 00:30:50,314
Just to the makers of this app, could you just do a better job?

377
00:30:50,314 --> 00:30:52,314
Could you just do a better job?

378
00:30:52,314 --> 00:30:54,314
I literally have to hover my phone.

379
00:30:54,314 --> 00:30:57,314
Because if I touch it, I'll disconnect.

380
00:30:57,314 --> 00:30:58,314
It just hovers.

381
00:30:58,314 --> 00:31:01,314
It's weird.

382
00:31:01,314 --> 00:31:07,314
Well, hopefully he can make it back on to the stage.

383
00:31:07,314 --> 00:31:10,314
Because we didn't hear what he had to say.

384
00:31:10,314 --> 00:31:13,314
And...

385
00:31:13,314 --> 00:31:14,314
I don't know.

386
00:31:14,314 --> 00:31:18,314
I'm just going to close other apps on my phone superstitiously, as if that's going to help.

387
00:31:18,314 --> 00:31:23,314
Close all this stuff.

388
00:31:23,314 --> 00:31:28,314
We'll just hope for the best.

389
00:31:28,314 --> 00:31:34,314
Well, I'm very happy you mentioned that you're reconsidering the ETH side.

390
00:31:34,314 --> 00:31:35,314
Because I did check the repo.

391
00:31:35,314 --> 00:31:37,314
And it's, like, two years out of date.

392
00:31:37,314 --> 00:31:40,314
I don't know if you're considering just updating that or...

393
00:31:40,314 --> 00:31:42,314
No, I'm probably not going to revive that one.

394
00:31:42,314 --> 00:31:43,314
Okay.

395
00:31:43,314 --> 00:31:44,314
We'll probably do a different one.

396
00:31:44,314 --> 00:31:45,314
Okay.

397
00:31:45,314 --> 00:31:46,314
Probably start from scratch.

398
00:31:46,314 --> 00:31:47,314
Cool.

399
00:31:47,314 --> 00:31:50,314
But, yeah, I don't really respect it.

400
00:31:50,314 --> 00:31:52,314
I don't think it's that good.

401
00:31:52,314 --> 00:31:58,314
I think what people like about Ethereum is that you get away from the psychosis in BTC.

402
00:31:58,314 --> 00:32:01,314
Which is a real drag.

403
00:32:01,314 --> 00:32:04,314
Well, I can see there's a whole bunch of crazy things.

404
00:32:04,314 --> 00:32:08,314
But what I would just like to point out is that that's where the builders are.

405
00:32:08,314 --> 00:32:10,314
That's where all the builders are.

406
00:32:10,314 --> 00:32:11,314
EVM.

407
00:32:11,314 --> 00:32:12,314
There are no UTXO builders.

408
00:32:12,314 --> 00:32:13,314
It's a handful.

409
00:32:13,314 --> 00:32:14,314
I can name them.

410
00:32:14,314 --> 00:32:16,314
Give me a minute.

411
00:32:16,314 --> 00:32:17,314
I can name all of them.

412
00:32:17,314 --> 00:32:20,314
So EVM has the mindshare.

413
00:32:20,314 --> 00:32:22,314
And I agree with you.

414
00:32:22,314 --> 00:32:23,314
I really do.

415
00:32:23,314 --> 00:32:27,314
It's just I'm saying you have to have some sort of onboarding.

416
00:32:27,314 --> 00:32:29,314
But isn't UTXO better?

417
00:32:29,314 --> 00:32:31,314
It's a thousand times better.

418
00:32:31,314 --> 00:32:32,314
Yeah.

419
00:32:32,314 --> 00:32:34,314
I would quantify it as a thousand times better.

420
00:32:34,314 --> 00:32:36,314
Why are we EVM?

421
00:32:36,314 --> 00:32:40,314
Because no one in the EVM world can speak UTXO.

422
00:32:40,314 --> 00:32:41,314
I can attest to that.

423
00:32:41,314 --> 00:32:42,314
They just cannot.

424
00:32:42,314 --> 00:32:47,314
And you're going to have to give them a way to kind of gradually migrate.

425
00:32:47,314 --> 00:32:50,314
It's completely different.

426
00:32:50,314 --> 00:32:52,314
I know this from the Bitcoin Cash world.

427
00:32:52,314 --> 00:32:54,314
At one point, they had both.

428
00:32:54,314 --> 00:32:57,314
And I saw what happened when they launched the EVM.

429
00:32:57,314 --> 00:32:59,314
It's called Smart BCH.

430
00:32:59,314 --> 00:33:04,314
And every EVM project, like all the good ones, I should say, just dumped on.

431
00:33:04,314 --> 00:33:06,314
It was a hundred projects in the first three months.

432
00:33:06,314 --> 00:33:07,314
A hundred.

433
00:33:07,314 --> 00:33:08,314
One hundred.

434
00:33:08,314 --> 00:33:10,314
And that blew up because it's BCH.

435
00:33:10,314 --> 00:33:13,314
But I saw the potential.

436
00:33:13,314 --> 00:33:14,314
It's not theoretical.

437
00:33:14,314 --> 00:33:18,314
I know exactly what it would take to get these builders to come over.

438
00:33:18,314 --> 00:33:20,314
And you can't sell them on UTXO from day one.

439
00:33:20,314 --> 00:33:23,314
They can't recognize it.

440
00:33:23,314 --> 00:33:24,314
Like, what is this?

441
00:33:24,314 --> 00:33:25,314
I think that makes sense.

442
00:33:25,314 --> 00:33:26,314
That could make sense.

443
00:33:26,314 --> 00:33:34,314
Anyway, with this project, we try to be – it's definitely not – this project tries to be very pluralist,

444
00:33:34,314 --> 00:33:38,314
which is to say, try everything out.

445
00:33:38,314 --> 00:33:42,314
Anything that works can stay.

446
00:33:42,314 --> 00:33:44,314
That's different, though, for me personally.

447
00:33:44,314 --> 00:33:52,314
I have to have like a kind of quality control or what have you.

448
00:33:52,314 --> 00:33:54,314
Would anyone else like to come up?

449
00:33:54,314 --> 00:33:59,314
We lost – whatever tried to come up, and he – the app killed him off.

450
00:34:00,314 --> 00:34:04,314
So it's time for contestant number three.

451
00:34:04,314 --> 00:34:07,314
Maybe we can – maybe he'll come back.

452
00:34:07,314 --> 00:34:08,314
Maybe he won't.

453
00:34:08,314 --> 00:34:10,314
I don't know.

454
00:34:10,314 --> 00:34:17,314
This app already, the dancing – the blue dots that are supposed to dance when I talk are frozen, which is always a terrible sign.

455
00:34:17,314 --> 00:34:19,314
I don't know why this app is so bad.

456
00:34:19,314 --> 00:34:21,314
But let's hear from anyone.

457
00:34:21,314 --> 00:34:34,314
Anyone who is a skeptic or a former skeptic, we'll take that, who didn't even see any of this because the algorithm sucked before.

458
00:34:34,314 --> 00:34:36,314
Let's hear from someone like that.

459
00:34:36,314 --> 00:34:40,314
They can request, and then maybe the app will let them up.

460
00:34:40,314 --> 00:34:42,314
Maybe it won't.

461
00:34:42,314 --> 00:34:45,314
If Vlad has blocked you, he may not be able to hear you in the space.

462
00:34:45,314 --> 00:34:47,314
I have no idea.

463
00:34:47,314 --> 00:34:48,314
I don't know.

464
00:34:48,314 --> 00:34:50,314
So many people have blocked me.

465
00:34:50,314 --> 00:34:54,314
I've never heard of them in my entire life, but then I block them back immediately.

466
00:34:54,314 --> 00:34:59,314
As soon as I see that someone has blocked me, I just say, fine, if that's how you want to be.

467
00:34:59,314 --> 00:35:02,314
Then I always block them back.

468
00:35:02,314 --> 00:35:15,314
And I know that the Twitter algorithm will demote – if certain people block you, it will demote your reach.

469
00:35:15,314 --> 00:35:21,314
And I just prefer to believe that I'm one of those people who has the magic block.

470
00:35:21,314 --> 00:35:23,314
Okay, we've let someone up.

471
00:35:23,314 --> 00:35:26,314
Kitty M. Kitty Meow.

472
00:35:26,314 --> 00:35:28,314
Now, hopefully they make it up here okay and survive.

473
00:35:28,314 --> 00:35:30,314
Okay, here they are.

474
00:35:30,314 --> 00:35:31,314
Hey, Paul.

475
00:35:31,314 --> 00:35:32,314
Hello.

476
00:35:32,314 --> 00:35:33,314
Hey, Paul.

477
00:35:33,314 --> 00:35:35,314
I just have one question.

478
00:35:35,314 --> 00:35:40,314
Are main exchanges going to support your hard fork?

479
00:35:40,314 --> 00:35:44,314
Well, I think probably, but I haven't really asked.

480
00:35:45,314 --> 00:35:49,314
Because we're still doing the dry run, and I want to put it in a really nice box for them.

481
00:35:49,314 --> 00:35:52,314
But I think there's a few reasons why they will.

482
00:35:52,314 --> 00:36:00,314
I mean, first of all, there's a few smaller exchanges that definitely will because they're friends and supporters of mine.

483
00:36:00,314 --> 00:36:12,314
But the thing is, over the last few years, this question has fallen in relevance by a lot, like maybe a factor of 200.

484
00:36:12,314 --> 00:36:17,314
Because it used to be, if you weren't on the exchange, you were completely screwed.

485
00:36:17,314 --> 00:36:26,314
And you had no liquidity, and it was just a way of smothering, killing off the project in the cradle.

486
00:36:26,314 --> 00:36:28,314
But I don't think it's like that at all anymore.

487
00:36:28,314 --> 00:36:31,314
So for starters, now the USDT exists.

488
00:36:31,314 --> 00:36:44,314
And so anyone can immediately do a super, super, super strong OTC desk using literally nothing, using IRC, using just telegram or signal or something like that.

489
00:36:44,314 --> 00:36:50,314
So I'm just talking at the bare minimum of things are a thousand times better.

490
00:36:50,314 --> 00:36:52,314
Because before, you had to do OTC some other way.

491
00:36:52,314 --> 00:36:54,314
You had to send the fee out around.

492
00:36:55,314 --> 00:36:59,314
But in addition to that, there are all these swap providers, like ChangeNow or whatever.

493
00:36:59,314 --> 00:37:04,314
Hypothetically speaking, I'm just going to say – oh, did you want to interrupt to say something?

494
00:37:04,314 --> 00:37:06,314
That's fine. Say whatever.

495
00:37:06,314 --> 00:37:10,314
Yeah, I was just going to say thank you for answering my question.

496
00:37:10,314 --> 00:37:13,314
And I wish you the best on your project.

497
00:37:13,314 --> 00:37:17,314
And if I get some from an exchange or something, I'll make sure that I keep it.

498
00:37:17,314 --> 00:37:20,314
And just best of luck to you.

499
00:37:20,314 --> 00:37:22,314
Okay, thanks.

500
00:37:23,314 --> 00:37:29,314
But to just continue about this exchange thing, they used to be really serious gatekeepers.

501
00:37:29,314 --> 00:37:36,314
But with ChangeNow and these other things, you can just swap.

502
00:37:36,314 --> 00:37:44,314
There's no need for – the exchanges need people's passport and stuff like proving where your address is.

503
00:37:44,314 --> 00:37:46,314
They need all this paperwork.

504
00:37:47,314 --> 00:37:53,314
And if you, for example, just buy the – if you download – there are many, many, many wallets.

505
00:37:53,314 --> 00:37:55,314
There's Edge Wallet, Cake Wallet, whatever.

506
00:37:55,314 --> 00:37:56,314
A lot of them do this.

507
00:37:56,314 --> 00:37:57,314
The Bitcoin.com wallet.

508
00:37:57,314 --> 00:38:04,314
If you download the Bitcoin.com wallet, you can immediately receive whatever you want.

509
00:38:04,314 --> 00:38:06,314
Like Solana, for example.

510
00:38:06,314 --> 00:38:09,314
You could receive $200,000 worth of Solana.

511
00:38:09,314 --> 00:38:12,314
Swap it for USDT in the app.

512
00:38:12,314 --> 00:38:15,314
You didn't give anyone your name or whatever.

513
00:38:15,314 --> 00:38:25,314
You just downloaded the – so I think the situation now is completely different than it was even a few years ago.

514
00:38:25,314 --> 00:38:29,314
And it's very, very different than it was five, six, seven years ago.

515
00:38:29,314 --> 00:38:43,314
Now, in addition to having some support from smaller exchanges that are already supporters of ours, I think the large exchanges will have a very hard time not supporting the coin.

516
00:38:43,314 --> 00:38:51,314
Because, first of all, the cost will be low, very low, because the L1 is just Bitcoin Core with a few tiny changes.

517
00:38:51,314 --> 00:39:01,314
But we wanted to put these changes through a very rigorous bug process, even though they're tiny, first.

518
00:39:01,314 --> 00:39:07,314
And so the cost of them is very low to actually support it.

519
00:39:07,314 --> 00:39:14,314
And the harm from them not supporting is potentially very high because of the way the transaction replay is being done.

520
00:39:14,314 --> 00:39:18,314
So I think they probably all will.

521
00:39:18,314 --> 00:39:28,314
But I was going to wait until 30 days out to actually ask, because I wanted to have the project in as good as possible of a state before bothering them.

522
00:39:28,314 --> 00:39:31,314
And I didn't want to bother them and say, oh, will you do this?

523
00:39:31,314 --> 00:39:33,314
So that's coming.

524
00:39:33,314 --> 00:39:38,314
There's a few small ones.

525
00:39:38,314 --> 00:39:45,314
But this type of question, I do think it's kind of not a great question.

526
00:39:45,314 --> 00:39:56,314
Because the question is, it's sort of saying it turns everything into a popularity contest, and it puts all the agency in these other people.

527
00:39:56,314 --> 00:39:57,314
It's like, what do they think?

528
00:39:57,859 --> 00:40:01,059
And it's like, who cares what they think?

529
00:40:01,059 --> 00:40:04,259
If their thoughts were any good, we

530
00:40:04,259 --> 00:40:06,059
would be doing what they want.

531
00:40:06,059 --> 00:40:10,779
But there's absolutely no reason.

532
00:40:10,779 --> 00:40:15,059
The tail doesn't wag the dog.

533
00:40:15,059 --> 00:40:18,379
The reason people like it, it doesn't matter.

534
00:40:18,379 --> 00:40:19,818
I wouldn't really worry about that.

535
00:40:19,818 --> 00:40:22,459
So I know a lot of people have that question.

536
00:40:22,459 --> 00:40:24,619
But I think it's quite a terrible question,

537
00:40:24,619 --> 00:40:26,818
if you really think about it.

538
00:40:26,818 --> 00:40:29,139
It's like all upside down.

539
00:40:29,139 --> 00:40:33,219
It's like if Bitcoin were invented today,

540
00:40:33,219 --> 00:40:38,099
and people were like, does Visa support Bitcoin or something?

541
00:40:38,099 --> 00:40:39,259
It's like, what the hell?

542
00:40:39,259 --> 00:40:40,658
Who cares?

543
00:40:40,658 --> 00:40:42,179
The question is kind of upside down.

544
00:40:42,179 --> 00:40:43,379
But I know why people ask it.

545
00:40:43,379 --> 00:40:49,138
They just want to know, is there any third party

546
00:40:49,138 --> 00:40:51,138
referendum on this?

547
00:40:51,138 --> 00:40:52,658
And so that is coming.

548
00:40:52,658 --> 00:40:54,539
I know a lot of people want to know the answer

549
00:40:54,539 --> 00:40:55,658
to that type of question.

550
00:40:55,658 --> 00:40:58,298
So I was kind of saving that up to announce it

551
00:40:58,298 --> 00:41:07,339
in its own special time, or whatever you want to call it.

552
00:41:07,339 --> 00:41:11,818
But it's a perfectly fair question to ask,

553
00:41:11,818 --> 00:41:13,019
even though I'm not a fan.

554
00:41:13,019 --> 00:41:14,179
Because you see what I mean?

555
00:41:14,179 --> 00:41:18,058
It's kind of like, hey, what does Donald Trump

556
00:41:18,058 --> 00:41:21,259
think of your, it's like, these people

557
00:41:21,259 --> 00:41:23,579
don't know about what it is we're doing over here.

558
00:41:23,579 --> 00:41:27,659
So and if they did, we wouldn't have

559
00:41:27,659 --> 00:41:28,939
to do it in the first place.

560
00:41:28,939 --> 00:41:34,579
So I think it's just, it will be kind of chaotic at first.

561
00:41:34,579 --> 00:41:39,339
But I think the chaos will be part of the fun.

562
00:41:39,339 --> 00:41:42,738
The exchanges will probably, when

563
00:41:42,738 --> 00:41:44,299
they realize what's going on, they'll

564
00:41:44,299 --> 00:41:48,339
probably rush to support as quickly as possible.

565
00:41:48,339 --> 00:41:50,659
In part, because they can be just drained using the replay

566
00:41:50,659 --> 00:41:53,219
protection if they don't.

567
00:41:54,179 --> 00:41:56,539
But I think a lot of them won't support it,

568
00:41:56,539 --> 00:42:01,418
and they will be drained, and that will be part of the fun.

569
00:42:01,418 --> 00:42:04,378
But hey, this information is out.

570
00:42:04,378 --> 00:42:05,539
It's in the public internet.

571
00:42:05,539 --> 00:42:08,498
They can, they have plenty of time.

572
00:42:08,498 --> 00:42:11,459
It's not going to take them that long to support,

573
00:42:11,459 --> 00:42:15,659
because it's based on the exact same wallet infrastructure,

574
00:42:15,659 --> 00:42:21,058
exact same UTXO as BTC.

575
00:42:21,099 --> 00:42:23,379
So it should be very easy for them.

576
00:42:23,379 --> 00:42:24,058
But we'll see.

577
00:42:32,418 --> 00:42:36,138
Would anyone else like to come up?

578
00:42:36,138 --> 00:42:40,978
Come on up if you have a question or a comment.

579
00:42:52,058 --> 00:42:55,258
It doesn't seem like anyone does want to come up.

580
00:42:55,258 --> 00:42:57,859
Oh, there is this guy, Satoshi's Bride.

581
00:42:57,859 --> 00:43:00,739
But for some reason, Paul, I'm having some issues with the app.

582
00:43:00,739 --> 00:43:03,379
I could not hear anything of what Shamar is saying,

583
00:43:03,379 --> 00:43:04,778
and I never blocked him.

584
00:43:04,778 --> 00:43:06,099
He never blocked me.

585
00:43:06,099 --> 00:43:08,939
It's a weird kind of situation, where whenever he was speaking,

586
00:43:08,939 --> 00:43:12,618
I could only hear complete silence.

587
00:43:12,618 --> 00:43:16,418
And now there is this guy, or lady, Satoshi's Bride.

588
00:43:16,418 --> 00:43:17,898
And I'm not sure what's going on.

589
00:43:17,939 --> 00:43:21,659
And now there is this guy, or lady, Satoshi's Bride.

590
00:43:21,659 --> 00:43:25,618
I hope that you can hear.

591
00:43:25,618 --> 00:43:28,179
Oh, OK.

592
00:43:28,179 --> 00:43:29,099
I don't see them.

593
00:43:34,099 --> 00:43:35,498
But hopefully they.

594
00:43:39,898 --> 00:43:41,698
Also, on the topic of exchange listings,

595
00:43:41,698 --> 00:43:44,618
I think this is only natural, because I

596
00:43:44,618 --> 00:43:47,338
remember the first time when I saw someone sending Bitcoin,

597
00:43:47,338 --> 00:43:49,138
I was like, what can you buy with this?

598
00:43:49,138 --> 00:43:50,898
And in the minds of these people,

599
00:43:50,898 --> 00:43:53,618
whenever something new shows up, they just

600
00:43:53,618 --> 00:43:55,418
want to know how they can use it.

601
00:43:55,418 --> 00:43:57,618
And of course, they might have some Bitcoin,

602
00:43:57,618 --> 00:44:00,418
which means they can claim some eCash.

603
00:44:00,418 --> 00:44:03,898
And one way of confirming that this is actually

604
00:44:03,898 --> 00:44:06,498
interesting to them is that it's going

605
00:44:06,498 --> 00:44:09,819
to be listed on some exchange, so they can potentially sell.

606
00:44:09,819 --> 00:44:11,939
So I don't blame them for asking this question.

607
00:44:11,939 --> 00:44:14,779
It's just that there has been so much development

608
00:44:14,779 --> 00:44:18,859
in this industry with routing around exchanges,

609
00:44:18,859 --> 00:44:22,258
because in the beginning, they were listing everything.

610
00:44:22,258 --> 00:44:24,138
Then they became gatekeepers, and you

611
00:44:24,138 --> 00:44:26,138
had to pay them to list stuff.

612
00:44:26,138 --> 00:44:28,378
I think it's a green flag for the project

613
00:44:28,378 --> 00:44:32,059
that, as far as I know, nobody's paying for any exchange

614
00:44:32,059 --> 00:44:32,538
listing.

615
00:44:32,538 --> 00:44:35,658
It's all going to be organic, which is really good.

616
00:44:35,658 --> 00:44:37,818
I think with most projects, when they raise money,

617
00:44:37,818 --> 00:44:40,258
all they do is talk to exchanges,

618
00:44:40,258 --> 00:44:43,938
talk to CoinMarketCap for having an animated logo,

619
00:44:43,938 --> 00:44:47,059
or whatever, because they want to grab people's attention

620
00:44:47,059 --> 00:44:50,459
and show that they're willing to spend money on the project.

621
00:44:50,459 --> 00:44:54,619
And of course, they are rarely on the market

622
00:44:54,619 --> 00:44:56,938
for longer than a few years.

623
00:44:56,938 --> 00:44:58,739
They get abandoned, and then the founders

624
00:44:58,739 --> 00:44:59,899
move on to something else.

625
00:44:59,899 --> 00:45:03,019
And I think for eCash, this is a very good sign, the fact

626
00:45:03,019 --> 00:45:07,019
that it's all voluntary and organic.

627
00:45:07,019 --> 00:45:08,978
And some people will say, well, maybe you

628
00:45:08,978 --> 00:45:11,418
don't want to let them sell or whatever.

629
00:45:11,418 --> 00:45:13,218
But they shouldn't worry.

630
00:45:13,218 --> 00:45:14,818
There's always someone else who wants

631
00:45:14,818 --> 00:45:18,499
to get their hands on some eCash.

632
00:45:18,499 --> 00:45:22,019
Well, I think that people should.

633
00:45:22,019 --> 00:45:25,179
It will be easier.

634
00:45:25,179 --> 00:45:26,698
If I were the exchanges, I would,

635
00:45:26,698 --> 00:45:30,938
even if I hated the project, I would support.

636
00:45:30,938 --> 00:45:34,019
Because it's just another thing they can trade,

637
00:45:34,019 --> 00:45:35,698
and they can get the...

638
00:45:35,698 --> 00:45:38,138
But I think more to the point, it's

639
00:45:38,138 --> 00:45:41,378
kind of like, if they don't support the project,

640
00:45:41,378 --> 00:45:44,779
then obviously we'd have to advise anyone

641
00:45:44,779 --> 00:45:48,339
who wants to make sure they get the eCash to just withdraw

642
00:45:48,339 --> 00:45:50,859
their BTC from the exchange.

643
00:45:50,859 --> 00:45:54,378
So it's kind of like there's a built-in ultimatum,

644
00:45:54,378 --> 00:45:59,418
even unintentionally, where it's kind of like, OK.

645
00:45:59,418 --> 00:46:02,459
And then maybe if they don't, if they really don't care,

646
00:46:02,459 --> 00:46:04,499
then it's possible that this huge pile of eCash

647
00:46:04,499 --> 00:46:06,418
will be created.

648
00:46:06,418 --> 00:46:09,818
No one will really know necessarily

649
00:46:09,818 --> 00:46:11,859
even what happened to it, and it

650
00:46:11,859 --> 00:46:18,059
may be lost, which would be beneficial to everyone else.

651
00:46:18,059 --> 00:46:20,339
So I don't know what's going to happen.

652
00:46:20,339 --> 00:46:24,499
As far as I'm concerned, the network

653
00:46:24,499 --> 00:46:27,418
will credit everyone who has self-custody of their coins.

654
00:46:27,418 --> 00:46:28,818
Those are the real users.

655
00:46:28,818 --> 00:46:31,978
Everyone else has some kind of...

656
00:46:31,978 --> 00:46:33,899
Now, you mentioned someone who's trying to come up,

657
00:46:33,899 --> 00:46:34,779
but I don't see this person.

658
00:46:34,779 --> 00:46:35,938
Let me see if I can look.

659
00:46:36,938 --> 00:46:41,538
Huh, I don't see, where's the, oh, here it is, this button.

660
00:46:44,859 --> 00:46:46,538
I don't see anyone trying to speak,

661
00:46:46,538 --> 00:46:53,459
so I don't know if it's just the app sucking or what, but...

662
00:46:58,658 --> 00:47:02,098
I don't see anyone invited or requesting.

663
00:47:06,339 --> 00:47:07,619
Can I just take a quick moment?

664
00:47:07,619 --> 00:47:13,218
I saw Jared Woodard come up as a listener.

665
00:47:13,218 --> 00:47:16,179
I just wanted to thank him personally

666
00:47:16,179 --> 00:47:19,378
because just all the work he's doing with the Discord,

667
00:47:19,378 --> 00:47:20,859
it's just so very much appreciated,

668
00:47:20,859 --> 00:47:23,339
so I just wanted to give a quick thank you for that.

669
00:47:29,818 --> 00:47:33,459
It's also worth noting that there is a very popular

670
00:47:33,538 --> 00:47:36,218
football game that's going to take place in about,

671
00:47:36,218 --> 00:47:37,938
what time is it?

672
00:47:37,938 --> 00:47:41,538
Oh, in 12 minutes, I'm sorry.

673
00:47:41,538 --> 00:47:42,499
Yeah, absolutely.

674
00:47:42,499 --> 00:47:46,978
I just, you know, well, we'll see if...

675
00:47:46,978 --> 00:47:50,538
Yeah, I was aware.

676
00:47:50,538 --> 00:47:52,978
And in fact, I have a betting pool with my friends,

677
00:47:52,978 --> 00:47:56,418
and since the entire beginning, you know,

678
00:47:56,418 --> 00:48:00,258
like to go all the way, and I actually,

679
00:48:00,258 --> 00:48:01,538
the teams were chosen randomly,

680
00:48:01,538 --> 00:48:05,059
and I got Argentina as my team,

681
00:48:05,059 --> 00:48:09,658
so I'm in the running to win this giant pool

682
00:48:09,658 --> 00:48:14,299
with a lot of friends, so I've...

683
00:48:14,299 --> 00:48:16,098
I hope I didn't jinx it just now, but yeah,

684
00:48:16,098 --> 00:48:19,818
I probably said they've come a very long way for me to win,

685
00:48:19,818 --> 00:48:24,179
and I just post Malay memes to annoy in the group chat.

686
00:48:24,179 --> 00:48:27,859
I just keep posting Malay, like as a cartoon character

687
00:48:27,859 --> 00:48:30,059
with laser eyes or whatever.

688
00:48:30,098 --> 00:48:34,179
I just keep posting whenever Argentina does well, so.

689
00:48:38,259 --> 00:48:40,819
But I haven't been watching,

690
00:48:40,819 --> 00:48:43,299
so that's the superstition now, I can't watch,

691
00:48:43,299 --> 00:48:45,299
or I'll curse the...

692
00:48:47,338 --> 00:48:49,059
Yeah, I told this joke a long time ago

693
00:48:49,059 --> 00:48:52,338
to Sergio Damon Lerner on a different space,

694
00:48:52,338 --> 00:48:55,978
that it's an economics joke, so it's not very funny,

695
00:48:57,098 --> 00:48:58,658
but in development economics,

696
00:48:58,658 --> 00:49:01,218
there are four types of economy,

697
00:49:01,218 --> 00:49:04,939
developing economy, developed economy,

698
00:49:04,939 --> 00:49:09,379
Japan and Argentina, those are the four types.

699
00:49:09,379 --> 00:49:12,338
That's what counts as a joke in the econ department.

700
00:49:12,338 --> 00:49:16,338
Okay, now, would anyone else like to...

701
00:49:16,338 --> 00:49:20,098
We have, we actually, I have stuff that I could run down,

702
00:49:20,098 --> 00:49:22,218
but I think we don't really have...

703
00:49:25,018 --> 00:49:26,059
We don't have that many people,

704
00:49:26,059 --> 00:49:28,018
so it's just like, you know, let's just open it up.

705
00:49:28,059 --> 00:49:31,418
If anyone wants to come up and have a question or comment.

706
00:49:35,538 --> 00:49:37,379
Some of the stuff to point out is that

707
00:49:37,379 --> 00:49:41,338
in addition to all the sidechains that we had now on Signet,

708
00:49:41,338 --> 00:49:46,179
we have the dry run on, we will do a new dry run

709
00:49:46,179 --> 00:49:51,179
that pays out the investors in a...

710
00:49:53,499 --> 00:49:55,458
Let's see, someone is trying to come up.

711
00:49:55,458 --> 00:49:56,299
Who is it?

712
00:49:56,299 --> 00:49:57,218
Oh, Joe.

713
00:49:59,018 --> 00:50:00,739
Okay, and we'll see if the app lets him up

714
00:50:00,739 --> 00:50:04,978
without blowing up the space or some other thing.

715
00:50:06,218 --> 00:50:10,819
But in addition to those, we have a couple of new ones,

716
00:50:10,819 --> 00:50:14,218
a couple of new sidechains, because we have new EVM,

717
00:50:14,218 --> 00:50:18,538
we have Shomaris, we have Elements Plus,

718
00:50:18,538 --> 00:50:22,619
which is Elements Plus, it's got OP_CAT, OP_CTV.

719
00:50:24,978 --> 00:50:27,658
I don't know how many of these will totally take off,

720
00:50:29,018 --> 00:50:31,179
but it's really a lot.

721
00:50:31,179 --> 00:50:32,578
And then we have the second CUSF,

722
00:50:32,578 --> 00:50:34,978
which I think will flip people like Nick Carter,

723
00:50:36,379 --> 00:50:40,299
where it adds quantum resistant signature options,

724
00:50:40,299 --> 00:50:43,578
four of them, to Bitcoin L1.

725
00:50:43,578 --> 00:50:44,819
And then I hope we get OpVault.

726
00:50:44,819 --> 00:50:48,418
OpVault, I always show OpVault because it's great

727
00:50:48,418 --> 00:50:53,418
if you have people like burst into your house

728
00:50:53,619 --> 00:50:57,338
and hold a gun to your head and try to steal all your coins.

729
00:50:57,379 --> 00:50:59,098
We got to have OpVault, it's really important.

730
00:50:59,098 --> 00:51:02,098
If we want to make it to this cypherpunk future,

731
00:51:02,098 --> 00:51:03,778
we're really going to need more privacy

732
00:51:03,778 --> 00:51:06,098
and we're going to need OpVault,

733
00:51:06,098 --> 00:51:08,658
because otherwise the wrench attack is too...

734
00:51:09,619 --> 00:51:12,139
So I tried to bring Joe up, but again, it didn't work.

735
00:51:12,139 --> 00:51:12,978
I don't understand.

736
00:51:12,978 --> 00:51:15,338
If I go in through requested, it doesn't work.

737
00:51:15,338 --> 00:51:17,699
But if I go in through, maybe I'll just try

738
00:51:20,218 --> 00:51:21,259
superstition things.

739
00:51:22,538 --> 00:51:25,538
Oh, Joe is here, but it says listener on the screen,

740
00:51:25,538 --> 00:51:27,978
but it doesn't say, oh, now it's a speaker.

741
00:51:27,978 --> 00:51:30,179
God, what the hell are they doing with this crazy app?

742
00:51:30,179 --> 00:51:31,898
Anyway, Joe is here and someone else is,

743
00:51:31,898 --> 00:51:33,098
Franklin, I think is coming up.

744
00:51:33,098 --> 00:51:35,898
Okay, we'll get Joe and Franklin for now until they...

745
00:51:37,299 --> 00:51:38,699
Hello, welcome.

746
00:51:38,699 --> 00:51:40,778
Hey, I just had a question.

747
00:51:40,778 --> 00:51:44,819
I see this coin on Solana, did you guys launch that?

748
00:51:46,218 --> 00:51:47,939
That was not launched by us,

749
00:51:47,939 --> 00:51:49,939
but there is one of them that is,

750
00:51:49,939 --> 00:51:54,699
but we have a scheme since they are feeding us real money

751
00:51:54,699 --> 00:51:56,658
in the form of Solana and Tether.

752
00:51:58,338 --> 00:52:03,338
We just treat that as a purchase at the old purchase price,

753
00:52:03,619 --> 00:52:05,778
which is $30 a coin.

754
00:52:05,778 --> 00:52:10,418
And so there's a pool of real ECX that has been set aside.

755
00:52:10,418 --> 00:52:13,018
So anyone who owns the Solana token

756
00:52:13,018 --> 00:52:15,379
has price exposure actually,

757
00:52:15,379 --> 00:52:18,739
because we're going to swap the entire market cap

758
00:52:18,739 --> 00:52:23,739
of the meme coin for the real pool of ECX.

759
00:52:25,578 --> 00:52:28,458
So if it skyrockets in value,

760
00:52:28,458 --> 00:52:31,218
then the meme coin token will also skyrocket

761
00:52:31,218 --> 00:52:33,098
in value in theory.

762
00:52:33,098 --> 00:52:35,778
Yeah, that's an interesting concept.

763
00:52:35,778 --> 00:52:37,458
So we kind of invented...

764
00:52:37,458 --> 00:52:39,898
There was also one like two hours ago too,

765
00:52:39,898 --> 00:52:41,619
that I saw came out and I was like,

766
00:52:41,619 --> 00:52:45,018
I wonder like, obviously this is like a primarily Bitcoin

767
00:52:45,018 --> 00:52:46,578
based from the looks of it.

768
00:52:46,578 --> 00:52:47,418
So it was like...

769
00:52:47,418 --> 00:52:49,458
Yeah, there's only the one.

770
00:52:49,458 --> 00:52:54,458
So if you go to eCash.com slash SOL dash token,

771
00:52:55,098 --> 00:52:57,739
it has like some information there.

772
00:52:57,739 --> 00:53:00,699
But unfortunately, of course, as you probably know,

773
00:53:00,699 --> 00:53:05,699
lots of people just launch all kinds of like unaffiliated

774
00:53:05,819 --> 00:53:09,418
or even impersonating.

775
00:53:09,418 --> 00:53:11,018
Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you.

776
00:53:11,018 --> 00:53:16,018
So I'm not sure about anything made two hours ago,

777
00:53:16,338 --> 00:53:21,259
but this is a kind of a fun thing to have around

778
00:53:21,259 --> 00:53:22,778
because there's this actual market

779
00:53:22,778 --> 00:53:24,338
for people buying and selling.

780
00:53:25,499 --> 00:53:27,379
And so it kind of gives a window

781
00:53:27,379 --> 00:53:32,379
and it usually sets the implied ECX price

782
00:53:33,619 --> 00:53:38,619
at like at least like 100, $200, something like that,

783
00:53:38,699 --> 00:53:42,299
which is kind of cool if it was currently selling

784
00:53:42,299 --> 00:53:46,819
for like 30, 32, $36, $34.

785
00:53:46,819 --> 00:53:48,458
So that makes me feel a little bit better

786
00:53:48,458 --> 00:53:52,098
about like, oh, at least the people who bought

787
00:53:52,418 --> 00:53:55,379
are very, very likely to do well.

788
00:53:55,379 --> 00:53:56,939
But of course, there's no guarantee

789
00:53:56,939 --> 00:53:59,418
that any of this makes any sense

790
00:53:59,418 --> 00:54:02,859
and won't change or collapse or transform

791
00:54:02,859 --> 00:54:04,259
or do anything else.

792
00:54:07,898 --> 00:54:08,739
So that's that.

793
00:54:08,739 --> 00:54:11,978
So yeah, Joe, did you want to say something?

794
00:54:13,778 --> 00:54:16,259
Oh yeah, I did write down

795
00:54:16,259 --> 00:54:18,458
some of those philosophical questions

796
00:54:18,458 --> 00:54:19,538
that I thought could be interesting.

797
00:54:19,538 --> 00:54:21,379
And one of them relates to what Shamari said,

798
00:54:21,418 --> 00:54:26,418
but I want to let other haters and new people also talk.

799
00:54:28,338 --> 00:54:30,699
So I'll just, I'll wait until there's a moment

800
00:54:32,218 --> 00:54:33,619
unless this is that moment.

801
00:54:35,978 --> 00:54:37,658
I mean, it could be the moment.

802
00:54:37,658 --> 00:54:40,578
Who knows how many people are going to be angrily leaving it

803
00:54:40,578 --> 00:54:43,338
because of the World Cup game in five minutes.

804
00:54:43,338 --> 00:54:44,179
So.

805
00:54:45,059 --> 00:54:45,898
Okay.

806
00:54:47,338 --> 00:54:48,179
So.

807
00:54:48,179 --> 00:54:50,538
Ask a philosophical question.

808
00:54:50,578 --> 00:54:51,898
Okay, okay.

809
00:54:51,898 --> 00:54:56,418
So this, I think somebody else might've asked this,

810
00:54:56,418 --> 00:54:57,978
but I kind of elaborated on it.

811
00:54:59,338 --> 00:55:03,939
But what is the, like for eCash,

812
00:55:03,939 --> 00:55:08,418
what is the plan on deviating from Bitcoin?

813
00:55:08,418 --> 00:55:13,418
So in terms of like people propose soft forks to eCash,

814
00:55:13,939 --> 00:55:18,259
what's the policy on those?

815
00:55:18,259 --> 00:55:21,218
Is it, I think you've said before.

816
00:55:21,218 --> 00:55:22,179
Hard reject.

817
00:55:24,578 --> 00:55:27,179
There's a game theory book about,

818
00:55:27,179 --> 00:55:30,538
if you go sailing competitively, you do a race,

819
00:55:30,538 --> 00:55:35,218
it's a one V one and you take the lead.

820
00:55:35,218 --> 00:55:39,218
Then what the people do is they look behind

821
00:55:39,218 --> 00:55:40,379
at the guy they're beating,

822
00:55:40,379 --> 00:55:43,179
because it's a one V one race.

823
00:55:43,179 --> 00:55:47,018
Just like Bitcoin, BTC and eCash one V one.

824
00:55:47,018 --> 00:55:49,739
And they just copy whatever the sailor behind them is doing

825
00:55:49,739 --> 00:55:51,179
because the wind can change.

826
00:55:51,179 --> 00:55:53,218
The wind can be like random.

827
00:55:53,218 --> 00:55:56,778
So you just copy their wind thing.

828
00:55:56,778 --> 00:55:58,778
And since you're in first place,

829
00:55:58,778 --> 00:55:59,978
maybe you both go backwards.

830
00:55:59,978 --> 00:56:01,338
Maybe you both go to the left.

831
00:56:01,338 --> 00:56:03,179
Maybe you both go to the right.

832
00:56:03,179 --> 00:56:05,699
Maybe you both go diagonally forwards,

833
00:56:05,699 --> 00:56:07,898
but you're kind of almost guaranteed to win,

834
00:56:09,939 --> 00:56:12,619
you know, because you're already ahead

835
00:56:12,619 --> 00:56:15,499
and you're copying their movements.

836
00:56:15,499 --> 00:56:17,018
So how can they gain on you?

837
00:56:18,418 --> 00:56:20,098
And that's the plan.

838
00:56:20,098 --> 00:56:22,658
That's a metaphor for this situation

839
00:56:22,658 --> 00:56:27,658
because we do not want to be in a situation

840
00:56:29,458 --> 00:56:31,898
where they do something different from us

841
00:56:31,898 --> 00:56:33,259
and they have an advantage.

842
00:56:34,179 --> 00:56:36,259
We'd rather them just blow up the project

843
00:56:36,259 --> 00:56:37,699
and blow up both projects.

844
00:56:40,499 --> 00:56:41,819
Because we have an out,

845
00:56:41,819 --> 00:56:44,499
which is just people escape under the L2s.

846
00:56:44,499 --> 00:56:48,499
I mean, I think they're already like making the Bitcoin L1

847
00:56:48,499 --> 00:56:52,018
and the L2s as terrible as possible almost.

848
00:56:52,018 --> 00:56:53,978
It's almost as bad as it could theoretically get

849
00:56:53,978 --> 00:56:56,458
without there being like a revolt.

850
00:56:57,458 --> 00:57:02,058
So, I mean, because one,

851
00:57:02,058 --> 00:57:04,938
I liked your tweet Vlad about bashing lightning,

852
00:57:04,938 --> 00:57:06,379
about how you can look at,

853
00:57:06,379 --> 00:57:08,218
okay, it's related to what Shamari was saying.

854
00:57:08,218 --> 00:57:09,698
Like the EVM was invented.

855
00:57:09,698 --> 00:57:11,978
EVM is used by many different people,

856
00:57:11,978 --> 00:57:14,659
Avalanche, whatever, Solana,

857
00:57:16,019 --> 00:57:19,978
other stupid projects that have a name.

858
00:57:19,978 --> 00:57:21,978
Every project, they all do the EVM.

859
00:57:21,978 --> 00:57:24,098
How many projects do BIP39?

860
00:57:25,779 --> 00:57:27,578
How many projects do BIP39?

861
00:57:27,578 --> 00:57:29,298
How many projects have independently invented

862
00:57:29,298 --> 00:57:31,338
some kind of Ethereum name system,

863
00:57:31,338 --> 00:57:33,698
ENS BitNames type of a thing,

864
00:57:33,698 --> 00:57:35,619
Namecoin type of a thing?

865
00:57:35,619 --> 00:57:36,619
Many of them.

866
00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:38,739
How many of them use HD wallets?

867
00:57:38,739 --> 00:57:41,058
Many of them, of course, with BIP39.

868
00:57:41,058 --> 00:57:45,458
How many of them use block explorers?

869
00:57:45,458 --> 00:57:46,298
Many of them.

870
00:57:46,298 --> 00:57:50,698
So, you got even stuff like Zcash

871
00:57:50,698 --> 00:57:53,419
as a block explorer or whatever.

872
00:57:53,419 --> 00:57:58,419
So, it's, but then lightning is invented for BTC

873
00:57:59,458 --> 00:58:01,058
and how many other people are copying lightning?

874
00:58:01,058 --> 00:58:05,338
This is literally like zero because it's terrible.

875
00:58:07,259 --> 00:58:10,098
And, but we haven't built a cult.

876
00:58:11,098 --> 00:58:11,938
We've built a cult.

877
00:58:11,938 --> 00:58:16,338
So, the Bitcoin L2 situation is terrible

878
00:58:16,338 --> 00:58:19,419
and the Bitcoin L1 situation is also terrible.

879
00:58:19,419 --> 00:58:20,619
It kind of, everyone knows.

880
00:58:20,619 --> 00:58:21,619
Everyone knows that it is,

881
00:58:21,619 --> 00:58:24,098
but they don't want to say it out loud.

882
00:58:24,098 --> 00:58:26,259
Or they say, it's good that it's so terrible

883
00:58:26,259 --> 00:58:27,619
because this proves that,

884
00:58:29,899 --> 00:58:31,019
it's good that it's so terrible

885
00:58:31,019 --> 00:58:35,178
because this proves that it will never become worse

886
00:58:35,178 --> 00:58:39,058
than this and it proves how static it is.

887
00:58:39,058 --> 00:58:40,938
So, that's something that people say.

888
00:58:44,139 --> 00:58:45,779
So, it's already very bad.

889
00:58:46,659 --> 00:58:48,218
So, why not just tie?

890
00:58:49,218 --> 00:58:52,978
And yeah, if a soft fork is added to BTC,

891
00:58:52,978 --> 00:58:55,659
we add it automatically.

892
00:58:55,659 --> 00:58:58,379
Cause then it's also less, it's less effort to maintain.

893
00:58:58,379 --> 00:59:00,818
You just click merge, merge, merge, merge, merge, merge

894
00:59:00,818 --> 00:59:03,619
with your, you just click the merge button

895
00:59:03,619 --> 00:59:05,938
and you don't have to think about explaining it

896
00:59:05,938 --> 00:59:07,938
or justifying it to all these other people.

897
00:59:07,938 --> 00:59:10,698
Any deviation you have to explain or justify.

898
00:59:10,698 --> 00:59:12,139
So, we want to minimize that.

899
00:59:14,338 --> 00:59:17,379
Now, I think we could do more Q-sifs.

900
00:59:17,379 --> 00:59:19,338
That's the thing is there's the second,

901
00:59:20,539 --> 00:59:22,098
there's now a second Q-sif

902
00:59:23,139 --> 00:59:26,139
in which Hunter Beast among other people,

903
00:59:26,139 --> 00:59:29,139
they added quantum resistant signatures,

904
00:59:30,619 --> 00:59:34,619
four of them, some lattice, some hash based.

905
00:59:35,619 --> 00:59:40,098
And this, and we'll add our vault.

906
00:59:40,098 --> 00:59:42,739
So, I think that could be fine.

907
00:59:42,739 --> 00:59:46,458
A second Q-sif and maybe even a third Q-sif.

908
00:59:48,859 --> 00:59:53,859
And we want to pass no judgment on how good Core is,

909
00:59:55,178 --> 00:59:57,659
actually, even though I'm convinced it's terrible.

910
00:59:58,659 --> 00:59:59,779
But, cause we want to just say, listen,

911
00:59:59,779 --> 01:00:00,978
we just tie with them.

912
01:00:00,978 --> 01:00:03,818
We tie with them, warts and all.

913
01:00:05,578 --> 01:00:06,578
Right, does that make sense?

914
01:00:06,578 --> 01:00:09,899
So, it's just like, so why would we change anything?

915
01:00:10,899 --> 01:00:12,098
I don't even want to,

916
01:00:12,098 --> 01:00:13,379
the way we have it set up right now,

917
01:00:13,379 --> 01:00:17,698
the eCash L1, we don't even rename it eCash

918
01:00:17,698 --> 01:00:19,298
in the software because that would break

919
01:00:19,298 --> 01:00:20,859
all these different unit tests and stuff.

920
01:00:20,859 --> 01:00:22,098
It'd be this big code diff.

921
01:00:22,098 --> 01:00:23,539
We just keep it, it's just Bitcoin Core.

922
01:00:23,539 --> 01:00:26,619
We just end it at the title, at the top.

923
01:00:26,619 --> 01:00:28,419
We rename it, we change the readme.

924
01:00:29,218 --> 01:00:32,218
But, yeah, Joe, feel free to chime in.

925
01:00:32,218 --> 01:00:35,779
You raised a hand, but there's only a few people speaking.

926
01:00:35,779 --> 01:00:36,619
So.

927
01:00:39,178 --> 01:00:44,178
Yeah, so, okay, so, since there's a World Cup game on,

928
01:00:45,178 --> 01:00:48,139
the soccer analogy is, if we're ahead by one,

929
01:00:48,139 --> 01:00:51,139
we want to reduce the volatility of the game.

930
01:00:51,139 --> 01:00:53,259
We just want to keep our lead and that's it.

931
01:00:53,978 --> 01:00:57,178
But, yeah, how it relates to CUSF is interesting to me.

932
01:00:57,178 --> 01:00:59,978
And why do you make an exception for that?

933
01:00:59,978 --> 01:01:00,978
Why is that safe?

934
01:01:00,978 --> 01:01:03,938
Are there limits to CUSF in this regard?

935
01:01:05,458 --> 01:01:07,578
Well, there's many reasons.

936
01:01:07,578 --> 01:01:10,978
One is you can just shut off the new CUSF completely.

937
01:01:10,978 --> 01:01:12,419
If it ends up being a total disaster,

938
01:01:12,419 --> 01:01:13,859
you can just shut it off.

939
01:01:13,859 --> 01:01:15,978
And then it'll be like, it was never there.

940
01:01:16,978 --> 01:01:21,259
Another thing is, you can just shut off the old CUSF

941
01:01:21,259 --> 01:01:25,419
Another thing is, you want to really consider the,

942
01:01:27,578 --> 01:01:31,379
like the code diff and the number of lines changed

943
01:01:31,379 --> 01:01:33,978
and how easy things are to maintain.

944
01:01:33,978 --> 01:01:35,899
Maintaining is really, really hard.

945
01:01:35,899 --> 01:01:40,019
And each, it's all about justifying the differences.

946
01:01:40,019 --> 01:01:42,178
So if you have, if you edit the code,

947
01:01:42,178 --> 01:01:45,659
a single line of code could be like, you know,

948
01:01:45,659 --> 01:01:46,978
one different line of code

949
01:01:46,978 --> 01:01:49,539
could either cause the software to crash

950
01:01:49,539 --> 01:01:52,659
or cause it to like dial out to the,

951
01:01:53,698 --> 01:01:55,619
and cause it to like, basically like,

952
01:01:55,619 --> 01:01:58,058
look up the user's private keys

953
01:01:58,058 --> 01:02:00,938
and like email them to an attacker or something.

954
01:02:00,938 --> 01:02:05,938
So changing the lines of code is basically unacceptable.

955
01:02:08,058 --> 01:02:11,379
But doing the CUSF is like, fine,

956
01:02:11,379 --> 01:02:13,098
because you can't even,

957
01:02:13,098 --> 01:02:14,578
you don't even know how much software people

958
01:02:14,578 --> 01:02:16,379
are running on top.

959
01:02:16,379 --> 01:02:18,978
So the CUSF is kind of like a very modular,

960
01:02:19,419 --> 01:02:20,818
very reversible.

961
01:02:20,818 --> 01:02:22,779
I know the soft fork is already pretty modular

962
01:02:22,779 --> 01:02:24,218
and reversible, but this is even better

963
01:02:24,218 --> 01:02:27,659
because it just puts it all in a different piece of software.

964
01:02:27,659 --> 01:02:30,298
And so it takes something that's a non-starter

965
01:02:30,298 --> 01:02:33,218
and goes there from something where you don't even,

966
01:02:33,218 --> 01:02:35,419
you don't even know if it's happening or not.

967
01:02:37,698 --> 01:02:40,098
So I think that it's a night and day difference.

968
01:02:40,978 --> 01:02:43,098
And especially if we have two CUSFs,

969
01:02:43,098 --> 01:02:45,419
we can always have one that's like,

970
01:02:45,419 --> 01:02:47,539
we have 303 or one that's kind of finished.

971
01:02:47,578 --> 01:02:49,379
It's like an ultra conservative one.

972
01:02:50,539 --> 01:02:53,499
And then we could add another one that's like more liberal.

973
01:02:54,578 --> 01:02:57,499
We could say, put all the weird stuff in there

974
01:02:57,499 --> 01:02:58,739
or that one could harden

975
01:02:58,739 --> 01:03:00,859
and we could just have a whole stack of them.

976
01:03:00,859 --> 01:03:03,178
So maybe one day there'll be like 15 of these.

977
01:03:04,539 --> 01:03:05,379
And that's better.

978
01:03:05,379 --> 01:03:07,779
And then a Bitcoin Core disagrees.

979
01:03:07,779 --> 01:03:10,619
If BTC changes someday, it's incompatible with the CUSF.

980
01:03:11,698 --> 01:03:13,578
As long as we're still behind,

981
01:03:13,578 --> 01:03:16,419
you know, we have a smaller market cap and whatever else.

982
01:03:17,818 --> 01:03:19,058
As long as we're still behind,

983
01:03:19,058 --> 01:03:21,338
you just like hard fork the CUSFs basically.

984
01:03:21,338 --> 01:03:23,139
You just like redo them all

985
01:03:24,899 --> 01:03:27,698
with like different headers or different,

986
01:03:29,098 --> 01:03:31,978
you know, op-nop numeral.

987
01:03:31,978 --> 01:03:33,739
You can kind of like move them around

988
01:03:33,739 --> 01:03:36,178
so that they're almost exactly the same.

989
01:03:36,178 --> 01:03:39,379
And that on the date that the Bitcoin hard fork happens,

990
01:03:39,379 --> 01:03:41,259
the Bitcoin soft fork happens, I mean.

991
01:03:42,739 --> 01:03:43,899
eCash soft fork happens

992
01:03:43,899 --> 01:03:46,978
and then all the other stuff gets like transposed.

993
01:03:48,458 --> 01:03:49,298
Yeah.

994
01:03:58,578 --> 01:04:01,499
You mentioned hard forks there too.

995
01:04:01,499 --> 01:04:04,259
So yeah, like that's another thing

996
01:04:04,259 --> 01:04:05,458
that's kind of interesting here.

997
01:04:05,458 --> 01:04:06,298
Like you're, you know,

998
01:04:06,298 --> 01:04:09,019
this whole thing is starting with the hard fork,

999
01:04:09,019 --> 01:04:11,338
but you know, I know you're more favorable

1000
01:04:11,338 --> 01:04:12,698
towards soft forks

1001
01:04:14,019 --> 01:04:17,139
and you have the safe way of doing it with CUSF.

1002
01:04:17,978 --> 01:04:18,818
But yeah, does your,

1003
01:04:18,818 --> 01:04:21,338
has your stance changed on hard forks?

1004
01:04:21,338 --> 01:04:26,338
How do you see how they fit in to competition development?

1005
01:04:28,019 --> 01:04:30,178
You know, isn't it like somebody reading your blog posts

1006
01:04:30,178 --> 01:04:32,019
from years ago might think that

1007
01:04:32,019 --> 01:04:33,259
you would never do a hard fork

1008
01:04:33,259 --> 01:04:37,098
because you oppose them, you know, vigorously.

1009
01:04:37,098 --> 01:04:39,379
So yeah, any thoughts on that?