0:00 All voices are muted. 0:22 Hello, boys. 0:23 Hello. 0:24 Welcome. 0:25 Thank you. 0:26 Thank you. 0:27 Good to have you here. 0:28 As you know, I just kind of hang out on Friday and answer any questions that are sublime 0:47 and serene community, you know, whatever they've got on their mind. 1:00 I heard something happened with SWAN, but I don't know what it is. 1:04 But whatever it is, I hope it's terrible news and they just go away somehow. 1:11 I don't think they'll go away anytime soon, though. 1:17 Get used to it, Paul. 1:19 Yeah, I know. 1:20 Although, whatever, the $200 million or whatever that they raised or whatever that was, that 1:24 was like debt, so that wasn't... 1:29 There's no way in hell that they raised anywhere near $200 million, but it doesn't matter. 1:34 There are good people at SWAN. 1:36 I think maybe we can get them to hire Brad Mills. 1:43 Yeah. 1:45 Are we waiting for something or are we just... 1:50 What's the plan? 1:51 Oh, no, I don't think, you know, I just think events of the week. 1:56 I see HostFat is here. 2:00 He was interested in my SoftFork thing. 2:08 Ocean found a block. 2:12 Block number four. 2:19 Yeah, I don't know. 2:22 There's nothing to talk about Ocean, man. 2:24 Like, I don't know. 2:25 They're just a bunch of like... 2:27 I actually feel bad for them. 2:29 I do. 2:30 I do. 2:31 I think, I mean, I think something is wrong in their comprehension of reality, and that's 2:40 never good because they're going to... 2:42 Eventually, they're going to have a rude awakening, but it's okay. 2:46 Well, it's a very competitive business, mining pool, you know. 2:50 It's like very low margin. 2:55 It's not exactly Apple. 3:00 Not exactly. 3:03 But, yeah, if anyone wants to come up and ask a question, that's always encouraged. 3:08 I guess it really has to be... 3:10 Don't ask me when Temple Wizards, but we will go in. 3:13 Yeah, just kind of a slow... 3:17 I mean, we had like, I suppose, the New Year's. 3:21 So, don't remember a lot of interesting things happening this week, but... 3:33 All right. 3:34 That was great. 3:35 Good summary. 3:40 Don't you... 3:41 Aren't you... 3:42 I think the thing that everyone's... 3:44 There's two things everyone's talking about. 3:46 One is the ETF. 3:48 And the second is... 3:52 Ordinals are having a pretty massive couple of weeks. 4:00 Yeah. 4:02 ETF, of course, is, in some sense, an inevitable consequence of Bitcoin succeeding. 4:09 But it's also, I think, a, you know, what they call watershed moment or a fork in the road, maybe. 4:17 Because it comes with the danger that a lot of people don't really understand why Bitcoin is valuable. 4:27 And they will be tricked into thinking the cosmetic, like the Bitcoin name or some other surface-level feature is the thing. 4:39 And then, you know, buying Bitcoin in the ETF. 4:42 But, of course, there's a lot of, you know... 4:44 The US financial system is set up in a way that certain types of money can only be invested in certain ways. 4:51 ETF is, of course, validating. 4:54 What's all the ETF? 4:57 I mean, the ETF is like... 4:59 Paul, did you consider reaching out to, like, reaching to an agreement with BlackRock to fork Bitcoin in ABIC300? 5:07 That would be pretty cool. 5:10 Because that's the new made-up attack vector that the LaserEyes are talking about now. 5:16 They're saying that BlackRock would... 5:18 Yeah, well, I think what some people noticed was that there was some very specific wording in their documentation that said something like, 5:27 they will unilaterally choose which, if any, side of the fork to honor. 5:35 Yeah, which, I mean, they have to, though. 5:37 Is there another option of how to handle this? 5:41 Well, yeah, it's actually unclear. 5:43 But, of course, I think the fear is that then it's just a way to just rogue everyone. 5:49 Say that whatever Bitcoin gold is the real Bitcoin and something like that. 5:53 Yeah, I think it's an insane fear, though. 5:56 So I think that, obviously, the incentives are... 6:00 I mean, look, if BlackRock's goal is, like, you know, if they're like, okay, the new corporate mission is to rogue Bitcoiners, then okay, I guess they can do that. 6:08 But that's kind of absurd considering that it's such a massive institution. 6:14 So probably they're just going to do what they think is best for their customers, I would imagine. 6:23 But they need to, like, legally, they need to have the leeway to make a decision. 6:26 Absolutely. 6:28 Of course, anyone, if they said we must honor every fork, then they have to, like, an unlimited amount of development time. 6:38 And then if people have forks that, like, progressively steal a higher and higher percentage of coins or do some other weird thing, that will be, like, impossible for them to... 6:52 Oh, hey, I almost forgot. I have some news, which is that we have a testnet, a global SIGNET coming out where people can play around with BIP300. 7:00 And they can play around with, like, the Zcash sidechain and other sidechains that we've made. 7:04 We have this cool little launcher. 7:06 It should be out. 7:07 I don't really want to, like, launch it on Friday. 7:11 I feel like it's a bad day. 7:13 So maybe, I don't know, Tuesday. 7:16 But it's basically ready now. 7:19 But I don't... 7:21 But maybe I'll put it out later today. 7:22 I don't know. 7:23 After all, Bitcoin... 7:24 When people are into Bitcoin, they're just 24-7. 7:28 And you can... 7:29 Everyone can try out for themselves. 7:32 They can see what BIP300 does for themselves. 7:34 And then they will, you know... 7:38 I think a lot of the critics will look pretty silly. 7:43 But, yeah, I'm excited about that. 7:45 They already look silly. 7:47 I know. 7:49 They already are silly, but they don't need to look silly to more people. 7:54 So that's a progress of a kind, as Christopher Hitchens used to say. 7:59 I want to talk about that. 8:02 A can of worms of what needs to happen in order for any type of consensus upgrade. 8:09 Okay, we should talk about this because this is an ongoing lie that is being pushed to everyone. 8:14 That soft forks require consensus. 8:17 The whole invention of the soft fork was because in 2012. 8:21 And I have presented at this at MIT Bitcoin Club. 8:24 And I can post... 8:25 The slides are already posted, but I can link to them or whatever. 8:28 But it's laid out in extremely high degree of detail. 8:34 The whole origin of the soft fork in 2012. 8:37 Which is that it's too difficult to get everyone to upgrade. 8:39 It's too difficult to get consensus. 8:41 So there happens to be... 8:43 You pull a rabbit out of the hat, there's this wacky way where all that's needed is that most miners upgrade. 8:53 And they will always choose a block that follows the new rules. 8:57 Whereas the old user will be indifferent between the two. 9:00 And so since everyone follows the heaviest chain rule, then everyone's... 9:03 So the whole invention of the soft fork was because it was widely recognized that there was no consensus. 9:11 And now what's happened is sort of by the back door. 9:15 A new blockchain has emerged in an abstract sense of just people being worried about maintaining code. 9:24 People having seniority on GitHub. 9:26 People doing various favors for each other. 9:30 Kind of what you might call log rolling and favoritism. 9:33 So that has created an atmosphere where... 9:38 And also it's very prestigious. 9:40 If you get something merged into Bitcoin Core, you can put that on your resume and whatever. 9:44 Presumably raise money or something like that. 9:46 And so what people do is they just think we can't let anyone mess with this project. 9:57 And so there's this whole new thing where in order to get anything merged into Bitcoin Core, you have to get consensus among the maintainers. 10:07 It's a completely different thing than consensus among all Bitcoiners. 10:11 And so yeah, this idea about will this get consensus? 10:15 Will CTV get consensus? 10:20 Well, I think it never will because it's very unstable if you have a situation where... 10:25 Let's say you divide the world into a big pie, 100%. 10:31 If it's the case, there was this Polish thing. 10:33 There was this Polish veto. 10:35 This is widely acknowledged as being responsible for the complete failure of Poland, which was a great nation. 10:42 But they had this thing where any individual person could veto. 10:45 And so when a country wanted to invade Poland, they would just bribe one of these people to just veto everything. 10:51 And people would say, oh, we need to raise an army and whatever to defend ourselves. 10:56 And then they would say they would just get vetoed. 10:58 One guy would get bought off and then Poland would get invaded. 11:04 So the consensus system is not a good system. 11:07 When you have 100 percentage points and then you say anyone with 1% can block this thing. 11:15 Even if you have a wide agreement, like if you have 80%, you're going to have 20 different people who they each want to extract a big concession in exchange for dropping their veto. 11:26 They each want to be kissed up to. 11:32 So I think nothing really has consensus. 11:35 And especially when a process is built where the input is, does it have consensus? 11:40 Then it will all just be exploited completely by. 11:44 And this is basically rudimentary political science. 11:48 That's actually that's actually a very interesting point. 11:50 Like literally SegWit did not have consensus quite literally. 11:54 Taproot, I would say, wasn't contentious as much as it was. 11:59 Nobody cared. So that one didn't have consensus either. 12:02 Well, let me interrupt you there just to say very rudely, but I had to pitch you my sort of the taproot. 12:08 It's a ricochet off of SegWit. 12:10 It was the SegWit experience was so bad that miners felt guilty. 12:15 And so they resolved to say we will support the next soft fork, even though even if they had no idea what it was, which, of course, they did not. 12:24 You know, we know. I mean, I know from asking both mining pool operators and miners. 12:31 I mean, for example, you know, just recently, some of them were talking to me about BIP300. 12:36 And they said they said to me, I already knew this, but they told me that. 12:42 We asked what when taproot came out, we started to ask our people who hash the big hashes who contribute to our pool. 12:50 We said, hey, what do you think of this taproot thing? 12:52 And they all say something like, you know, what is what is taproot? 12:55 Like they have no idea what it is. 12:57 And we know that the SegWit people, the detractors knew nothing about it. 13:03 You know, the haters of SegWit, they didn't really know anything about it. 13:06 But the supporters also didn't really know anything about it. 13:08 They didn't know about, you know, that John Carvalho was on Twitter in like 2019 saying that he didn't he didn't know that it was a block size increase. 13:17 Two years after it activated. 13:19 So and he, you know, all these people with the hats and everything. 13:22 So sorry for interrupting there, but the taproot one is a special case of powered by guilt. 13:30 And it is it had a fake consensus based on wanting to avoid conflict. 13:38 So it had a consensus, but about something that has nothing to do with the actual the technology. 13:45 And in both the SegWit and taproot case, it was activated by miners with people opposing it. 13:51 Every soft fork has been activated by a hashrate supermajority, with the exception of one or two cases, 14:00 one of which was a Flag Day activation that had to manually be pushed back a few months because when the Flag Day approached, some miners had not upgraded. 14:12 So they said, wait a minute, we have to push this back. 14:16 And there were other cases where such as. 14:19 We have 66 where miners said they upgraded, but they really hadn't. 14:25 And then when push came to shove, the upgrade was downgraded. 14:30 So so the whole thing is this whole thing is a big mess. 14:34 It's a big tangled mess. Anyway, I'm sorry for interrupting you there. 14:39 But, yeah, I have to just make this super clear that the whole invention of the soft fork was to solve the problem of getting consensus among everyone, which is not possible. 14:47 And it's not possible for just basic reasons of, you know, heterogeneous information. 14:55 And also just because of politically people extract concessions. 14:58 But we don't need to, because the way the soft fork is coded is that it leaves the old nodes doing exactly what they did before. 15:05 And so this is what everyone realized is everyone learned all this in 2012. 15:08 But as you know, random new people show up and they get their information from, you know, whatever podcaster. 15:15 And so that's the scenario. 15:20 OK, so, Paul, would you agree that previous soft forks, the way that they truly worked? 15:28 I mean, it was basically there was one party who had good distribution. 15:34 They had good relationships or, you know, relatively good relationships with miners, with businesses that are operating nodes, with some Bitcoin holders. 15:49 And they used their distribution channels, the Twitter account, the Reddit accounts, all of that stuff. 15:57 In order to reach a critical mass that is still a minority, but reach a critical mass that is enough to get the soft fork rolling and have eventually have the miners protect people who did an upgrade. 16:16 Well, I would divide it clearly into a couple of phases. 16:20 So the first year there were seven soft forks, the first year being when Satoshi was still running the show. 16:27 And so everything was small. So there was like different eras where there was less disagreement. 16:34 But there was seven in the first year and then there were about nine until 2016. 16:44 So there were quite a few even in the second era when there was no Satoshi, but there was still stuff, you know, whatever, Pagescript, Ash, BIP30 or whatever. 16:56 So. So but they were those were like very simple things like put the Coinbase height in, put the block height in the Coinbase. 17:05 They weren't really that controversial, even like, you know, check lock time verify. 17:09 It was just like it's weird. I wonder how controversial something like check lock time verify would be today, which basically allows you to like it's like dating a check in the future. 17:20 It says like this transaction cannot be. Included in a block like until this block height or until this date. 17:29 By the way, can the host invite Hielo to the stage? I want to hear his opinion about CLTV as well. 17:37 But go ahead, Paul. So if you divide it into these errors, errors. 17:45 SegWit was a very special case where you had even SegWit was not really the what happened was there was the block size dispute in 2015 and it spilled over into. 17:57 And it destroyed a lot of it made the community polarized and there was no. 18:02 In the past, the activation threshold was 95 percent hash rate. 18:07 And this was, I think, mostly is just done as a courtesy so that no no one would be left behind. 18:13 It was like, OK, we all agree that we want this. We all agree that we will upgrade. 18:19 We don't we just don't know when enough people have upgraded. So we'll signal here and you get to 95. 18:26 But there was no there was no sense of someone blocking it until SegWit. 18:31 There was a nine percent pool after scaling three and they decided to just defect from Bitcoin core completely. 18:38 This blocked SegWit. And this created the new modern era, which is defined completely by the politicization, political football, soft fork, which is. 18:50 SegWit and Taproot and now nothing. And so I think and of course, as I pointed out a few times is from when SegWit was proposed, first proposed to when it was coded and then activated. 19:03 That was 20 months in the case of SegWit. But in the case of Taproot, it was 46 months. 19:09 So if you just. I think if you you extrapolate that trend, you get a very, very long delay between soft forks, although now you see that people reacting to that, they say. 19:23 They say like we this is this way of doing things is unacceptable and they want you have like Moon Settler and other people like militantly pushing the sort of faster soft fork. 19:35 And then you have, you know, people like Luke who I can't you know, I don't understand Luke's. 19:39 I think Luke's a smart guy and I think he knows a lot about Bitcoin, but he has this really weird combination of beliefs that are like minor. 19:48 Whatever miners do must be totally ignored. And miners are not users. 19:52 Says the users have to activate the soft fork, but the users. 19:55 Did you ever have a dinner with Paul Luke? 20:00 I don't recall having dinner with him. Of course, I've met him in person a few times. Maybe we did have dinner once or twice. 20:06 Dinner, maybe like lunch or breakfast. 20:11 I think maybe we were at the same. 20:14 Maybe maybe maybe Korean. 20:18 It's possible. I think so. I mean, I've met him a few times. 20:21 Like sometimes it's like we had, like, for example, a consensus in New York City back when that was accomplished. 20:26 I feel like what I want to ask you about is probably something that you would remember. 20:36 Did you ever have? No, I'm sorry. There's like someone's telling me a joke. 20:39 It's unrelated to what I'm about to say. 20:43 Did you ever have like a dinner at the pet shelter, maybe? 20:52 Yeah, that's that's very funny. I mean, I remember when Luke had used to have, you know, he's an interesting guy, you know. 21:02 Sorry, Paul, I have a question. Have you ever tried talking with Adam Back? 21:11 I've talked to Adam Back many times. About what specifically? 21:14 Publicly, is there like a recording of you and Adam Back? 21:18 Yeah, we did a Bitcoin Amsterdam two conferences ago. We did a big sidechains, like fireside chat. 21:25 And it's like it's pretty long. I think it was like 35 minutes or something. 21:28 Just him and me and Aaron was there to facilitate, which he did a great job. 21:33 So you can look that up. I think it was called like the future of sidechains, Bitcoin Amsterdam. 21:38 And yeah, of course, Adam Back and I mean, it's Adam Back in a way has been the only thing. 21:45 He was like keeping this the Drivechain idea alive. 21:49 You know, it's weird because his company has been killing the sidechain idea. 21:54 In my view, and, you know, sort of more or less misleading people. 21:58 And yet he himself, maybe because of that or in spite of that, I don't know, but he is he has always been very supportive of Drivechain. 22:08 And in fact, at Baltic Honey, two Baltic Honey Badgers ago, he said on stage in front of everyone, 22:14 this quote that I put on the site that was like, well, he says something along the lines of, well, we just spent like five years doing Taproot. 22:22 But arguably that is not, you know, very useful. 22:26 We should could have done Drivechain instead and had all this other stuff. 22:31 I honestly could have watched paint dry instead. 22:34 It probably would have been much more constructive than Taproot. 22:37 But another request to the host. 22:39 Can you maybe invite Hampus on stage? 22:42 Because he's like a toxic CTV double agent, nation state agent. 22:50 I think I just found the cure for insomnia, by the way. 22:55 Yo, are you are you still in Greece? 23:03 Yeah, always. 23:06 No, because I remember that you flew to the wrong. 23:10 What was it? Which wrong city was it? 23:16 I was meant to go to Miami, Florida for the conference back there. 23:20 And Craig's Craig's has booked my ticket for Miami, Ohio. 23:25 But that was one one time only. 23:30 Oh, my God. That's like something that's like a TV sitcom thing. 23:33 And you think that never happens in real life. 23:36 I know. Right. It's like a meme or something. 23:39 So they're like, yeah, well, yeah, there's a lot of Athens in the United States. 23:43 There's like a couple. It's like a Paris, Paris, France. 23:46 I mean, a Paris, Texas, I think people sometimes occasionally. 23:54 You know what, Paul? Hearing you in these spaces for a while now. 24:00 You're starting to grow on me, man. Like, I really want to meet you now. And like, I have so many questions for you, you know? 24:11 He's fairly tall, you know, so you should bring a like a ladder or maybe like a chair. 24:18 Do you come to Miami or Miami, New York or New Haven? There's Bitcoin meetups that I go to. 24:26 Which Miami though? 24:30 Yeah, you have to come to the right Miami. The one the one by the water. 24:39 Yeah. And that's what happens when you make crypto popular, everyone. This is what happens. Are you happy now? 24:49 Yes. See, this is the thing. This is why naming is important. 24:57 Yellow, did you actually go to a conference ever? 25:04 No. 25:09 What would I? 25:12 Where else would you meet all the podcasters? 25:14 Oh, right. Yeah, sure. Podcasters. Did you know that I sent poop to Peter? Did you know that? 25:22 Did to what? Did I know what? 25:25 I sent poop to Peter. 25:27 When was it to you? 25:30 Allegedly. Allegedly. 25:33 Do you know who it really was? 25:37 It was an ex guy or something, but I'm taking credit. 25:42 Yeah, I'm familiar with that strategy. 25:45 Yeah, it's great. 25:51 So how much is coming back up or no? How much? 25:55 I mean, if he doesn't accept, then he can't. 25:59 You know, you never know. Maybe people are like driving or something. 26:03 What is using the layer, the LayerTwo Labs account? He's downloading me. 26:11 Who are you? 26:12 Who are you? 26:21 Is that you, Corey? 26:25 Do you have a vendetta against one, too? 26:28 What are you talking about? I started a vendetta, man. Now it's like popular. It's like it's crazy now. I started that. 26:36 Oh, I mean, they're so weird and they are completely they're the epitome of this fake thing where you have sinned in the past and then you become like, you know, like a deranged like priest, purely powered by like guilt. 26:56 And inauthenticity, and it's just so. 26:59 Wait, do you mean Corey? I don't I don't I know that Corey, whenever I whenever I go on a tour space, Corey's always in the audience as a burner account, always 100 percent of the time. 27:08 So I know he's listening right now. Corey is I don't think he believes a single word of what he says. 27:15 So I don't think I don't think that he's actually. 27:21 I'm trying to redeem his his previous sins. 27:25 I don't know. I don't know. I think you're right about that. I mean, I think it's like it's more sociopathic that even than that, where it's just this is the script. 27:34 But I think they reach the script from, you know, via their past shit coining. 27:41 So it's just the extra layers of hypocrisy. 27:44 It's not they, by the way, it's just him. He literally duped every single swan employee like the rest are genuine. 27:52 Yeah, they just think that it's like, you know, they think that it's like some kind of like chain code or something. 27:58 Like it's like a pro Bitcoin company. And it's just like this weird. 28:04 It's always fun to hear you using trying to use and think of non-legal words, non-legal words to use. 28:17 Like dupes. 28:19 Whatever. I mean, like a lot of this stuff, I would be, you know, I would sign an affidavit or whatever for a lot of this. 28:25 It's pretty easy to establish, but but whatever, it's not going to make any difference. 28:30 So I don't know what to say about that. 28:35 But you know that yellow had. It's true. He had a long time vendetta against the replicators. 28:42 Aha. Well, that's always a good feeling when your vendetta starts to get validated by other people. 28:48 So congratulations. 28:51 I actually wanted to post space like months ago and ask him about the replicators. 28:56 And he was like the replicators. He didn't know about it. 29:01 I mean, well, I've read, you know, Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, and I was like, he's probably not talking about that. 29:09 So I just went with a question mark. 29:13 But do you want to tell us what they are? 29:17 They're just fake Twitter accounts that aren't real. 29:20 Oh, that's that's my favorite subject. 29:23 What are you talking about? 29:24 The replicators are from a far away universe. 29:30 And we first made contact with them through the Stargate. 29:37 And what they do is they infect your world. 29:41 Right. And they start replicating shit like macro, macro, macro, macro, macro, macro token, ETF token, shit like that. 29:48 And all of a sudden you turn around and it's like everything, it's like replicating it. 29:55 And it's a thing. It happens every time. 30:00 You can see it up there in your timeline. 30:03 It's spaces where you can see some spaces are gray. 30:07 Those are like all macro spaces. 30:10 And they're replicating all the time. 30:12 And they're using sponsorship and shit like that, fake money. 30:15 And they're longing one X now. 30:18 And, you know, they replicate stuff. 30:21 And they're really, really, they're a real threat. 30:25 Then not a lot of people are talking about it. 30:29 I've got a great book recommendation for you in which replicators are featured. 30:34 There is a book called The Beginning of Infinity. 30:37 And there's two chapters called The Evolution of Culture and The Evolution of Creativity, which are about replicators. 30:46 Have you read that? Have you read that though? 30:49 Yes, I have. 30:53 What do you think? I'm going to be up here recommending some crazy book I haven't read. 30:57 What do you think? I'm going to stand up here on stage and recommend a lightning rod that I never used? 31:02 What am I? Michael Saylor? What am I? 31:05 What am I, Saifedean? What am I? 31:07 What am I, Peter McCormick? 31:09 What am I, Corey Clipson? Come on. Come on. 31:12 Speaking of a vendetta that is finally being vindicated about. 31:16 You know, it's not really a vendetta. 31:18 It's just like all these people for years would just say these extremely, you know, like Tadge Dreyja, inventor of the Lightning Network. 31:26 He would always be saying these like very, very tame things. 31:30 Rusty Russell, they would always just be like, well, it doesn't really work if fees are high. 31:35 It doesn't really work if you can't reach out one in time. 31:38 It doesn't really work for blah, blah, blah. 31:40 A long, long list of things. 31:43 And then yet this is just the biggest sacred cow of them all. 31:47 To say anything against lightning is a heresy and a betrayal. 31:52 Yeah, my experience is that actual developers who actually work on lightning are very humble in how they talk about it. 32:00 And very down to earth and actually seem to be more concerned about using it than even I am. 32:07 But then everyone else is like, yeah, it's like you can't even, if you even dare say it. 32:16 Like I literally, I went on Twitter space like two years ago. 32:21 I said a couple of things about lightning that I don't think it's working. 32:24 Oh, my gosh. 32:25 That was before I was, that was before I excommunicated myself from the laser I called when I was still a cult member. 32:34 And yeah, it was it was not an easy experience. 32:38 People took it very difficult. 32:40 I remember the yellow. 32:44 I'm still what? 32:45 Yeah. 32:46 You still are a part of the cult. 32:50 I mean, I started a new cult. 32:53 We have our own cult now. 32:58 I don't think so. 32:59 You're a part of the cult, but you don't you like to say that you're not. 33:04 I get it. 33:05 The thing is, are you in the cult yellow or not? 33:10 I am the fucking prophet, man. 33:13 You are the cult. 33:14 Yeah, I am the cult. 33:17 OK, great. 33:18 Yeah. 33:19 So the thing is, you got to understand, everybody, as Saylor says, Bitcoin is like some kind of energy force or something. 33:31 And like the thing is, the lightning network is like droplets of that energy, I guess, if you think about it in the same way. 33:41 And then like liquid is like the vapor or something. 33:47 I don't know, man. 33:48 I'm confused, too, but it works. 33:51 So it's pretty much the best. 33:53 I think it's the most technically accurate explanation I've heard. 33:58 I know. 33:59 I also do mempool TA. 34:00 If you're interested. 34:05 Can you tell me all those mempool? 34:09 No, no, no. 34:10 You saw behind in fucking like cultural stuff, guys. 34:16 Come on. 34:17 Mempool TA is an ever growing and new kind of industry forming around guessing the fees when where they're going to go up or down. 34:27 So what they do is I pretend I'm an expert and I see the mempools spiking or dropping and I draw some lines to it. 34:38 And, you know, like now we have a descending triangle for me, you know, and they're going to spike it a little bit. 34:46 But then I'm going to drop and consolidate more, you know, stuff like that. 34:49 You say stuff like that. 34:51 Pretend you're an expert and you have boom, a new industry there. 34:55 Yeah, I have to say this about, you know, being a part of the Bitcoin industry, which is that it has all these colorful characters in it, which, you know, I really wouldn't trade it for anything. 35:07 It is definitely tiresome at times. 35:11 But when I compare this to like whatever university or like other industries, you know, in the ancient past that I may have been a part of, we just have like this crazy cast of characters here and people just get together and. 35:33 People are so funny, honestly. 35:35 And that's how you co-opt the co-option of UDI. 35:43 That's the only way. 35:45 That's the only way. 35:46 When somebody smiles and you don't like what he's saying, the only way is to smile back. 35:53 Whoever is listening and is like bitching about like what I'm doing up here. 35:59 That's what I'm doing. 36:01 OK, well, yeah, no, it's a lot of fun. 36:05 I mean, because there's so much the standards are so high, you can get criticized by anyone in any way. 36:14 And that's fascinating. 36:17 And it's never a dull moment, of course. 36:21 I, you know, on that topic, I know that Yellow is a distinguished member of many of the top leading laser eye meme groups. 36:35 And, you know, some people only get lucky enough or fortunate enough to be members of one meme group. 36:44 But Yellow is truly bridging between all tribes and sects of Bitcoin meme tardation. 36:56 And therefore, I want to ask you, Yellow, because I have actually a lot of people in my DMs who are closeted ordinals enjoyers. 37:10 So they still have the laser eye on their PFP and they're still like pretending to be complete idiots in public. 37:18 But they can't have their friends find out or their parents, God forbid. 37:23 But in private, they go to Magic Eden and they sweep the floor every night and buy JPEGs. 37:32 So in the end, they're talking to me, asking me for advice and, you know, which wallet should they use? 37:38 And how do you speed up transactions and what's going on? 37:42 So my question to you is in your highly exclusive meme groups. 37:48 Do you see that as well or do you find that people cannot show their true skin yet within those groups? 37:59 No, there are some. There are very few. 38:02 There are very few that but they just say it like we give them a little bit crap. 38:08 But like we don't care that much, to be honest. 38:11 Like after that, we make fun of them a little bit, but it is what it is. 38:19 Why don't you like out those guys that are DMing you? 38:25 I mean, it's their decision. It wouldn't be cruel. 38:27 It's their decision to decide when they want to make it public. 38:31 Is it like having ordinals the new gay thing now? 38:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're fully in the closet still. 38:40 And they're afraid that their parents are going to reject them if they know that they buy JPEGs. 38:46 Or God forbid their followers. 38:54 For me, you know, I think it's stupid. 38:58 From the other hand, I don't care if people do it. It's still Bitcoin. 39:05 I just randomly wanted to point out, if you have any real question or comment about anything, 39:14 Drivechain or whatever, or ordinals, et cetera, then feel free. 39:22 I'm just saying that, you know, we want to respect the time of the audience. 39:29 I'm sure this is great content. You know, this is rivaling Dave Chappelle, I'm sure. 39:34 But, you know, just wanted to throw it out there in case there's anyone dying to know something. 39:42 You don't have to wait until next Friday. 39:44 What could they possibly ask me? 39:48 Is there anything that someone doesn't know that I can answer? 39:52 How to write a great tweet. 39:56 That's actually pretty easy. That's actually remarkably easy. 40:00 So what you do is, first, you create a lot of haters. 40:08 So you just go to all their tweets, reply things that they get pissed about. 40:14 Just be super annoying to a very specific group of people. 40:18 And then once they all know you as the annoying guy, they're looking at everything you say. 40:24 And then you block them. All of them. 100% of those people, you block all of them. 40:28 So what they do, they're so pissed now because they're really upset at you. 40:33 And then you block them too. So they create a new account. 40:36 And they put your notifications on the new account because they hate you so much. 40:40 And then what you do, you continue, while you're having them blocked, you continue to say things that will piss them off. 40:46 And you know that it will ring their phone whenever you do it. 40:50 And they'll show it to all their friends. 40:52 So you don't actually need to do anything. They're going to do all the propagation for you. 40:58 So you just need to set the stage first. 41:02 Find a group of people, make them hate you to their very soul. 41:07 And then cut it off. Immediately, one day, you block all of them. 41:11 They will lose themselves. 41:14 How can I get a wizard? How can I get a wizard? 41:18 Pet-proof wizard. How can I get it? 41:23 I mean, if I knew, I would have told you. I literally don't know. 41:28 I don't know. 41:30 Your people are here. Time to go. Bye. 41:39 Do you consider yourself an idiot? 41:46 Oh, you already left. 41:49 Heartbreaking. 41:51 I don't know why. I seem to have so much trouble with these stupid spaces on my phone. 41:55 And always kicking me out or breaking or something. 41:58 What do you want to ask? 42:00 I got a new phone, but whatever. Life goes on. 42:04 What do you want to ask? What do you think about Nostra? 42:09 I thought it was a great idea to get all the laser eyes to move to another website. 42:15 I thought it was a really awesome goal. 42:22 I don't think it succeeded. They're still around. 42:25 But it was a good attempt. I think it was nice. 42:29 Network effects are just so important. 42:32 Why would Elon pay whatever that was, $40-something billion? 42:37 When you could just, with $50 million, you could just poach some employees and make a comparable site. 42:45 Think about it. If instead of buying Twitter for $40 billion, he would have instead bought Bitcoin for $40 billion, 42:52 then he wouldn't have had to work at all, and now it would have been worth 2x. 42:58 He's definitely no sloth. 43:04 He's like the guy when you're on a team project and someone clearly has a very specific vision for the project 43:12 and they're willing to do 80% of the work, and then everyone else just slacks off. 43:20 Anyway, the network effects are important. 43:24 Everyone says, well, if we just get everyone to switch, but that little if never happens. 43:30 I love Fiat Jaffa. It's great. 43:32 Fiat Jaffa is one of the first people to acquire some prestige, serious prestige, 43:37 as just an individual and the creator of Nostr. 43:42 He's not literally the creator, but he's the lead guy, lead owner, responsible of Nostr. 43:53 He was one of the first to just be like, lightning is a complete failure. 43:57 We need to just get rid of it. 43:59 The biggest drive-chain shill is an even bigger shill than me. 44:02 He's made numerous public comments that are something like, if Bitcoin doesn't merge, 44:08 drive-chains, the whole project will fail, drive-chain is our only hope, etc. 44:13 It's kind of funny that he's a huge supporter of mine. 44:16 I always feel a little guilty about I'm really not very active on Nostr. 44:21 I kind of have it on my phone and I don't really use it yet. 44:26 Did you consider joining forces with Fiat Jaffa? 44:30 With Fiat Jaffa and rebranding drive-chain as Nostr-chain? 44:37 Just keep it the same thing. 44:39 That's a good idea. 44:41 You rebrand it as Nostr-chain and you do the Nostr token and just flow with it. 44:47 Just go with that and see where it takes you. 44:50 That could be a good idea. 44:52 Nostr relays the withdrawal hashes, so since anything can do that, 44:57 we just say yes. 44:59 No one can tell him not to create the Nostr token. 45:03 He's the creator of Nostr, so he can do whatever he wants. 45:07 I think... 45:10 You're like the Apple of Discord. 45:13 This is like Udi, whoever that was. 45:15 Ares? 45:17 These are throwing in chaos, mixing up chaos. 45:22 Which I appreciate because we need more chaos. 45:25 It is chaotic. 45:27 Also, I think you would end up with drive-chains. 45:30 What do you guys think about Zaps? 45:32 I think that's the true innovation. 45:34 Zaps? 45:36 Zaps? 45:38 Like paying someone one Satoshi in Lightning? 45:44 That's the innovation? 45:46 I mean, if that's what you're getting paid, but most of us are not. 45:53 How much do you get per Zap? 45:56 Per Zap? Minimum 21. 45:59 21 Sats? 46:02 Minimum. 46:06 Well, I mean, you know that it can't... 46:09 The Lightning Network is supposed to be using these HTLCs 46:13 so that people can enforce the channel 46:16 if anyone tries to broadcast old state and steal all the money. 46:20 But to enforce an HTLC requires you to drag an awful lot of bytes 46:25 on chain, you know, the pre-image. 46:28 Then it creates an input that you have to spend. 46:30 Inputs are like 100 bytes. 46:32 So the whole thing is like kind of a lot. 46:36 The whole thing could be half of a 220-byte transaction. 46:40 So if the transaction fees are like $5, $6, or $10, 46:44 then any Lightning payment beneath that 46:49 doesn't actually use the Lightning Network. 46:52 It just forwards people forward the money based on reputation, 46:58 just kind of thinking it's a small amount of money. 47:01 But this is why it's, you know, it's not going... 47:04 This is why we have few LSPs, because it's an enormous capital. 47:09 You have to lock up capital and you have capital at risk. 47:12 And the fees that you collect will not be enough to offset the cost, 47:18 which is why people instead just use a few LSPs. 47:21 They do everything based on reputation. 47:24 And a lot of what is supposedly a Lightning... 47:27 This zap is a perfect example of something 47:29 where the name is deliberately chosen 47:33 to make it seem like it's using the Lightning Network, 47:36 when in reality it is kind of... 47:39 It's not really using the Lightning Network idea. 47:41 It is using pre-established payment channels, 47:44 but the money is just forwarded to... 47:47 The money is not routed, like, across this P2P network. 47:51 It's just a middleman who is taking a cut 47:58 and extending credit to people, basically. 48:02 Anyway, we have a hand. 48:06 Hello. 48:08 Hello. 48:10 Sorry, I was sick. 48:12 My voice is a little bit cracked. 48:14 Don't wonder. 48:16 I have two questions. 48:17 The first question is, 48:19 I'm wondering what would be the scenario 48:23 if really we get into a bull run, 48:26 how it would be affected with all those things 48:30 where the people are complaining at the moment, 48:33 for example, ordinals or stamps. 48:36 What is your expectation in a bull run? 48:40 How could it affect the market? 48:42 And where will the money flow? 48:45 Can you be more specific about... 48:47 I haven't seen many bull runs, 48:49 so I do know what happens. 48:51 Twitter goes crazy. 48:53 I got to head out in five minutes. 48:57 Yes, yes, of course. 48:59 Thanks for joining us. 49:01 Thanks for joining us. If anyone has any Udi-specific questions or angry comments or whatever, get them in quick. 49:08 Well, fuck yourself, Udi. 49:11 That's a good question. 49:16 So what do you specifically mean about the market? 49:20 The price goes up, the fees go up, but people don't care because the price is going up, so everyone just feels great. 49:26 A lot of really dumb stuff will get funded at that time because people take advantage of it. 49:31 But could it be possible that really Bitcoin reaches its limit and can be some kind of collapse because everybody is doing shit on it? 49:40 Well, that's kind of a separate thing, but usually, yes, what happens is the blocks get very full during the bull market because everyone's buying and even people who have made money want to sell. 49:53 So everyone is transacting and Bitcoin gets a lot of attention in the media. People post their favorite all-time high song on Twitter. 50:02 People are partying on Reddit. So this type of stuff happens in each bull market. 50:12 Is it unusable that people really consider an alternative like Drivechain? 50:18 Well, I think actually, no, I would say not during the bull market is when everyone just feels happy and everyone feels like it is working and everyone feels like everything's going great. 50:28 And then that is always followed. It's followed by sometimes we have years of it not going up. 50:35 And then in those cases, people get really, really miserable. And if you had high fees and the price was not going up, 50:43 there's always a generation of people who made a bunch of money. 50:49 And there's also a generation of desperate people who are the last ones in. 50:53 And those are the people who are the laser eye podcast adherents today. 50:59 This is a huge group of people that are new and that they have not made money yet. 51:04 And so they are just kind of restless, you might say. 51:08 But I think what will eventually spur people, I think, to adopt Drivechain is we'll put this test net out. 51:18 Eventually, the technology will be so complete and so easy to use, which is very close to this point already, where we have multiple sidechains. 51:26 We have privacy, scalability, extensibility, EVM, Ethereum, whatever other things, Namecoin, messaging, etc. 51:36 So eventually it will reach that point and it will be, you know, and someone will launch like, you know, it's like a skydose type thing. 51:44 More and more people will launch like Litecoin launched with SegWit. 51:48 It didn't launch with SegWit, but you know what I mean, that they added. 51:52 And then eventually there's FOMO in that dimension. 51:56 And I think that that is what will, I think the having also be rough for miners. 52:03 So we want people to be kind of upset and that will stimulate a creative search for new ideas. 52:11 But when the price is going up, everyone thinks, oh, we have it all figured out. 52:15 Okay, so you don't think that it will impact it so much that it really some kind of maybe collapse while the run because we're getting so much attention. 52:25 Everybody don't expect that. 52:27 Maybe it's a crazy scenario. 52:29 I just wasn't sure. 52:30 This is why I'm asking professionals. 52:32 Maybe I skip to my second question. 52:34 I just saw that Luke was not really supporting Drivechain anymore. 52:41 And I was wondering what's going on there. 52:43 Maybe could it be interesting to invite him and to hear his opinion? 52:49 I'm just wondering what's going on. 52:51 But I think I know already what it is. 52:53 He thinks that he would never use Lucas. 52:57 Lucas, very like Lucas. 52:59 A lot of people have different kind of philosophical orientation towards quote of the miners and quote. 53:07 So Luke views them with suspicious. 53:09 I mean, Luke, it's almost like a quasi religious thing where he thinks they are always be tempted by sin and there must be consequences. 53:18 And, you know, monitoring to keep them on a very short leash. 53:22 So he's very minor, skeptical and minor, distrustful. 53:28 And he just thinks that depositing coins into the 300 is sort of giving them to the miners and that they might give them back. 53:36 He doesn't really believe, you know, like I have laid out very clearly. 53:40 I just do how this is how much miners can make in fees alone versus this is how much this is the upper ceiling on how much could be deposited. 53:48 And so a greedy miner will see later already. 53:52 A greedy miner will want to keep it alive. 53:57 So I only rely on the miners greed and for them to want to follow the 300 paradigm. 54:09 And but Luke just thinks that there's no. 54:13 So but Luke, but Luke also thought back in 2017 that the large blockers, you know, they wanted this combination of traits. 54:23 So this would give them what they want and it would also keep the layer one block size small. 54:29 And so that was kind of like that's kind of like he'd been his position the whole time. 54:33 So he thinks that people should he says there's nothing wrong with it at all and people should be allowed to use it. 54:41 But his own personal opinion is that he finds no use in it at all. 54:47 I think that's the wrong criterion, but that maybe explains his perplexing combination of comments. 54:55 Does that make any sense? Yeah. OK. I try to understand. 54:59 I always listen to lips spaces twice because it's not always easy for me to proceed everything. 55:09 OK, great. Cool. Well, we'll see if anyone else will come up. 55:17 I have to get back to work myself shipping this test net, but I do enjoy the Friday spaces. 55:24 So if anyone has something they'd like to know about, then please come up. 55:32 Recently this week, I tweeted about what I call the Core Untouched Soft Fork. 55:38 Which is kind of like it's as it makes each fork so that you can do it without changing Bitcoin core. 55:47 So it's really like a soft fork without a soft fork, without the political distraction of the soft fork meme. 55:58 And this this this should this should really show people why it is the soft fork has the properties that it does, 56:05 because it is possible to. Basically, edit the add the protocol, add to the protocol by. 56:14 By simply adding new pieces of software next to Bitcoin core. 56:21 So the Bitcoin core piece doesn't really need to change for the feature to be activated for all the people who opt in. 56:28 But, yeah, I don't know if this is going to be very easy for other people to understand. 56:31 But basically, you could you could add a CTV by just running like a CTV software next to Bitcoin core. 56:40 So you don't actually have to go through the work of editing Bitcoin core, figuring out what like, you know, what is the style guide? 56:46 How have they refactored the code? What stuff are they doing? You just don't interact with them at all. 56:51 You let Bitcoin core be Bitcoin core and you add like the bit 119 module. 56:58 And then as long as you run both pieces of software, you're watching the network for 119. 57:04 And then if 51 percent of the hashrate runs the two pieces of software, then it has activated for everyone and is safe to use. 57:19 So that is an idea that I tweeted about. 57:24 I think people will, you know, probably have very strong opinions about it when they finally get around to understanding it. 57:32 But. I think that's an interesting thing that happened this week. 57:40 We see Klaus is going to he's still in the audience, he's still going to be tweeting at me to look into Chia, 57:47 and I'm still probably not going to because it is I just don't really see what how it's relevant to anything that I'm working on. 57:57 But. To appreciate his determination. 58:03 And then, of course, if no one has anything that they want to ask, we can close the space. 58:14 Because I do have a lot to do. So come on up quick. 58:27 OK, cool. Seems like no one wants to say anything, so we'll end the space. 58:34 Thanks very much, everyone. Thanks to you for dropping by. 58:39 He has like a billion. Great people who love and hate him on Twitter, so it's nice to have him in. 58:46 And to see everyone on Twitter, see everyone next week.
