0:01 Hello, boys. 0:04 Hello. 0:05 Welcome. 0:09 Thank you, thank you. 0:14 Good to have you here. 0:15 As you know, we just, I just kind of hang out on Friday 0:20 and answer any questions that the, 0:24 that our sublime and serene community, you know, 0:30 whatever they've got on their mind. 0:39 I heard something happened with SWAN, 0:41 but I don't know what it is. 0:43 But whatever it is, I hope it's terrible news 0:45 and they just go away somehow. 0:50 I don't think it'll go away anytime soon, though. 0:52 Nope. 0:55 So, get used to it, Paul. 0:58 Yeah, I know. 0:59 Although the, whatever, the 200 million or whatever 1:01 that they raised or whatever that was, 1:03 that was like debt, so that wasn't. 1:07 No, there's no way in hell that they raised 1:10 anywhere near $200 million. 1:12 But it doesn't matter. 1:14 There are good people at SWAN. 1:15 I think, maybe we can get them to hire Brad Mills. 1:22 Yeah. 1:22 Yeah. 1:26 Are we waiting for something or are we just, 1:29 what's the plan? 1:32 Oh, no, I don't think, you know, 1:33 I just think events of the week. 1:38 I see HostFat is here. 1:39 He was interested in my soft fork thing. 1:50 Ocean found a block. 1:53 Block number four. 1:59 Yeah. 2:01 I don't know. 2:02 There's nothing to talk about Ocean, man. 2:04 Like, I don't know. 2:04 It's just a bunch of like, 2:07 I actually feel bad for them. 2:09 I do. 2:10 I think, 2:13 I think, I mean, I think something is, 2:15 something is wrong in their comprehension of reality 2:18 and that's never good because they're gonna, 2:21 eventually they're gonna have a rude awakening. 2:23 But it's okay. 2:24 Well, it's a very competitive business, mining pool. 2:28 You know, it's like very low margin. 2:33 It's not exactly Apple. 2:38 So. 2:41 Not exactly. 2:43 But yeah, if anyone wants to come up and ask a question, 2:46 that's always encouraged. 2:48 I guess it really has to be. 2:49 Don't ask me when type of wizards, but we'll go ahead. 2:54 Yeah, I just, kind of a slow, 2:57 I mean, we had like, I suppose the New Year's. 3:01 So. 3:05 Don't remember a lot of interesting things 3:06 happening this week, but. 3:12 All right. 3:13 That was great. 3:15 Good summary. 3:16 Yeah. 3:20 Don't you, aren't you, what's the latest? 3:22 I think that everyone's, 3:23 there's two things everyone's talking about. 3:25 One is the ETF. 3:27 Yeah. 3:28 And the second is, 3:31 ordinals are having a pretty massive couple of weeks. 3:39 Yeah. 3:41 ETF, of course, is, 3:44 in some sense, an inevitable consequence 3:48 of Bitcoin succeeding, but it's also, I think, 3:50 a, you know, what they call watershed moment 3:55 or a fork in the road, maybe, 3:57 because it comes with it, 4:01 the danger that a lot of people don't really understand 4:05 why Bitcoin is valuable, 4:06 and they will be tricked into thinking 4:09 the cosmetic, like the Bitcoin name, 4:12 or some other surface level feature 4:17 is the thing, and then, you know, 4:20 buying Bitcoin in the ETF. 4:21 But of course, there's a lot of, you know, 4:23 the U.S. financial system is set up in a way that 4:26 certain types of money can only be invested in certain ways. 4:30 ETF is, of course, validating. 4:35 What's all the ETF? 4:36 I mean, the ETF is like, 4:39 yeah. 4:40 Paul, did you consider reaching out to, 4:41 like reaching to an agreement with BlackRock 4:43 to fork Bitcoin in ABIC 300? 4:47 That would be pretty cool. 4:50 No. 4:51 Because that's the new made-up attack vector 4:53 that the Laser Eyes are talking about now. 4:55 They're saying that BlackRock could. 4:57 Yeah, well, I think what some people noticed 4:59 was that there was some very specific wording 5:02 in their documentation that said something like, 5:06 they will unilaterally choose which, 5:09 if any, side of the fork to honor. 5:14 Which is- 5:14 Yeah, which, I mean, they have to, though. 5:17 Is there another option of how to handle this? 5:20 Well, yeah, it's actually unclear. 5:22 But of course, I think the fear is that 5:25 then it's just a way to just rug everyone. 5:28 Say that whatever, Bitcoin Gold is the real Bitcoin. 5:31 Yeah, I think- 5:32 Something like that. 5:33 I think it's an insane fear, though. 5:35 So I think that, obviously, the incentives are, 5:39 I mean, look, if BlackRock's goal is, 5:42 like, you know, if they're like, 5:43 okay, the new corporate mission is to rug Bitcoiners, 5:46 then okay, I guess they can do that. 5:47 But that's kind of absurd, 5:49 considering that it's such a massive institution. 5:53 So probably they're just gonna do what they think 5:57 is best for their customers, I would imagine. 6:02 But they need to, like, legally, 6:04 they need to have the leeway to make a decision. 6:06 Absolutely, I mean, of course, anyone, 6:09 if they said we must honor every fork, 6:13 then they have to, like, 6:15 an unlimited amount of development time. 6:18 And then if people have forks that, like, 6:20 progressively steal a higher and higher percentage of coins 6:24 or do some other weird thing, 6:26 that will be, like, impossible for them to, 6:31 oh, hey, I almost forgot, I have some news, 6:32 which is that we have a testnet, 6:34 a global signet coming out 6:37 where people can play around with BIP300 6:39 and they can play around with, like, 6:40 the Zcash sidechain and other sidechains that we've made. 6:43 You know, we have this cool little launcher. 6:45 Should be out, I don't really want to, like, 6:48 launch it on Friday. 6:50 I feel like it's a bad day. 6:52 So maybe, I don't know, Tuesday? 6:55 But it's basically ready now. 6:58 But I don't, but maybe I'll put it out later today. 7:01 I don't know, after all, Bitcoin, 7:03 when people are into Bitcoin, they're just 24-7. 7:07 Then you can, everyone can try out for themselves. 7:11 They can see what BIP300 does for themselves 7:13 and then they will, you know, 7:17 I think a lot of the critics will look pretty silly. 7:22 But yeah, I'm excited about that. 7:24 Okay, they already look silly. 7:26 I know. 7:29 They already are silly, but they don't do it. 7:32 They need to look silly to more people. 7:33 So that's a progress of a kind, 7:36 as Christopher Hitchens used to say. 7:38 I want to talk about that. 7:41 Can of worms of what needs to happen 7:44 in order for any type of consensus upgrade. 7:48 Okay, we should talk about this 7:49 because this is an ongoing lie 7:51 that is being pushed to everyone 7:53 that soft forks require consensus. 7:56 The whole invention of the soft fork was because, in 2012, 8:00 and I've presented at this at MIT Bitcoin Club 8:03 and I can post, the slides are already posted, 8:05 but I can like link to them or whatever, 8:07 but it's laid out in extremely high degree of detail. 8:13 The whole origin of the soft fork in 2012, 8:16 which is that it's too difficult to get everyone to upgrade. 8:18 It's too difficult to get consensus. 8:20 So there's this, there's just, 8:21 there happens to be, you pull a rabbit out of the hat, 8:24 there's this wacky way where all that's needed 8:28 is that, excuse me, most miners upgrade 8:32 and they will always choose a block 8:34 that follows the new rules, 8:36 whereas the old user will be indifferent between the two. 8:39 And so since everyone follows the heaviest chain rule, 8:41 then everyone's on. 8:42 So the whole invention of the soft fork 8:44 was because it was widely recognized 8:47 that it was, that there was no consensus. 8:50 And now what's happened is sort of by the back door, 8:55 a new blockchain has emerged in an abstract sense 8:59 of just people being worried about maintaining code, 9:03 people having seniority on GitHub, 9:06 people doing various favors for each other, 9:09 kind of what you might call log rolling and like favoritism. 9:13 So it's, that has created an atmosphere where, 9:17 and also it's like very prestigious. 9:19 If you are now, if you get something merged 9:20 into Bitcoin Core, you can like put that on your resume 9:22 and like whatever, presumably raise money 9:25 or something like that. 9:27 And so what people do is they just think 9:33 like we can't let anyone mess with this project. 9:36 And so there's this whole new thing where 9:40 in order to get anything merged into Bitcoin Core, 9:43 you have to get consensus among like the maintainers. 9:46 It's a completely different thing 9:47 than consensus among all Bitcoiners. 9:50 And so, yeah, this idea about like, 9:52 will this get consensus, you know, 9:54 will get, will CTV get consensus? 9:58 Well, I think it never will, 9:59 because it's very unstable if you have a situation 10:03 where let's say that you divide the world 10:05 into a big pie, a hundred percent. 10:09 If it's the case, like there was this Polish thing, 10:12 there was this Polish veto. 10:14 This is widely acknowledged as being responsible 10:16 for like the complete failure of Poland, 10:19 which was like a great nation, 10:21 but they had this thing 10:22 where any individual person could veto. 10:24 And so when a country wanted to invade Poland, 10:26 they would just bribe one of these people 10:28 to just veto everything. 10:30 And the people would say, 10:31 oh, we need to raise an army and whatever to defend ourselves 10:35 and then they would say, they would just get vetoed. 10:38 One guy would get bought off 10:39 and then Poland would get invaded and that, you know. 10:43 So it's, the consensus system is not a good system 10:46 when you have like, you know, you have a hundred 10:47 percentage points and then you say, 10:51 anyone with 1% can block this thing. 10:53 Well, then you're going to have, 10:54 even if you have a wide agreement, 10:56 like if you have 80%, 10:57 you're going to have 20 different people 11:00 who they each want to extract a big concession 11:03 in exchange for dropping their veto. 11:05 You know, they each want to be kissed up to. 11:10 And so the whole thing, so I think nothing will ever, 11:13 nothing really has consensus. 11:14 And especially when a process is built 11:17 where the input is, does it have consensus? 11:20 Then it will all just be exploited completely by, 11:24 and this is basically rudimentary political science. 11:28 That's actually a very interesting point. 11:30 Like literally SegWit did not have consensus, 11:32 quite literally. 11:34 Taproot, I would say, 11:36 wasn't contentious as much as it was nobody cared. 11:40 So that one didn't have consensus either. 11:42 Let me interrupt you there just to say very rudely, 11:45 but I had to pitch you my sort of, 11:47 the Taproot is a ricochet off of SegWit. 11:50 It was, the SegWit experience was so bad 11:53 that miners felt guilty. 11:55 And so they resolved to say, 11:57 we will support the next soft fork, 12:00 even if they had no idea what it was, 12:02 which of course they did not. 12:04 You know, we know, I mean, 12:05 I know from asking both mining pool operators and miners. 12:11 I mean, for example, you know, just recently, 12:14 some of them were talking to me about BIP300. 12:16 And they said to me, I already knew this, 12:19 but they told me that we asked, 12:22 well, when Taproot came out, we, you know, 12:24 we started to ask our people who hashed the big hashers 12:28 who contribute to our pool. 12:29 We said, hey, what do you think of this Taproot thing? 12:31 And they all say something like, you know, 12:33 what is Taproot? 12:34 Like they have no idea what it is. 12:36 And we know that the SegWit people, 12:39 the detractors knew nothing about it. 12:42 You know, the haters of SegWit, 12:43 they didn't really know anything about it, 12:45 but the supporters also didn't really know anything about it. 12:47 They didn't know about, you know, 12:49 John Carvalho was on Twitter in like 2019, 12:53 saying that he didn't know 12:54 that it was a block size increase 12:56 two years after it activated. 12:58 So, and he, you know, 12:59 all these people with the hats and everything. 13:01 So sorry for interrupting there, 13:03 but the Taproot one is a special case of powered by guilt. 13:09 And it is, it had a fake consensus 13:12 based on wanting to avoid conflict. 13:17 So it had a consensus, 13:19 but about something that has nothing to do 13:20 with the actual, the technology. 13:24 And in both the SegWit and Taproot case, 13:26 it was activated by miners with people opposing it. 13:31 Every soft fork has been activated 13:32 by a hash rate super majority, 13:35 with the exception of one or two cases, 13:39 one of which was a Flag Day activation 13:42 that had to manually be pushed back a few months 13:45 because when the Flag Day approached, 13:48 some miners had not upgraded. 13:51 So they said, wait a minute, 13:53 we have to push this back. 13:55 And there were other cases where, 13:56 such as BIP66, 14:00 where miners said they upgraded, 14:03 but they really hadn't. 14:04 And then when push came to shove, 14:07 the upgrade was downgraded. 14:09 So the whole thing is a big mess. 14:14 It's a big tangled mess. 14:16 Anyway, sorry for interrupting you there. 14:18 But yeah, I have to just make this super clear 14:20 that the whole invention of the soft fork 14:21 was to solve the problem of getting consensus 14:24 among everyone, which is not possible. 14:27 And it's not possible for just basic reasons 14:29 of heterogeneous information 14:34 and also just because of politically, 14:36 people extract concessions, 14:37 but we don't need to 14:38 because the way the soft fork is coded 14:40 is that it leaves the old nodes 14:43 doing exactly what they did before. 14:44 And so this is what everyone realized 14:46 is everyone learned all this in 2012. 14:48 But as you know, 14:49 random new people show up 14:51 and they get their information from whatever podcaster. 14:55 And so that's the scenario. 14:59 Okay, so Paul, would you agree 15:01 that previous soft forks, 15:03 the way that they truly worked, 15:07 I mean, it was basically, 15:08 there was one party who had good distribution. 15:13 They had good relationships 15:17 or relatively good relationships with miners, 15:22 with businesses that are operating nodes, 15:26 with some Bitcoin holders 15:29 and they used their distribution channels, 15:32 the Twitter account, the Reddit accounts, 15:33 all of that stuff 15:36 in order to reach a critical mass 15:41 that is still a minority, 15:43 but reach a critical mass 15:44 that is enough to get the soft fork rolling 15:50 and eventually have the miners protect 15:54 people who did an upgrade. 15:57 Well, I would divide it clearly into a couple of phases. 15:59 So the first year there were seven soft forks, 16:04 the first year being when Satoshi was still running the show. 16:07 And so everything was small. 16:08 So there was like different eras 16:10 where there was less disagreement, 16:14 but there was seven in the first year 16:17 and then there were about nine until 2016. 16:22 So there were quite a few, 16:24 even in the second era when there was no Satoshi, 16:27 but there was still stuff, 16:30 whatever, Pagescriptash, BIP30 or whatever. 16:35 So, but they were, 16:38 those were like very simple things 16:40 like put the Coinbase height in the, 16:43 put the block height in the Coinbase. 16:45 They weren't really that controversial, 16:47 even like, you know, check lock time verify 16:49 was just like, it's weird. 16:51 I wonder how controversial something 16:53 like check lock time verify would be today, 16:55 which basically allows you to like, 16:56 it's like dating a check in the future. 16:59 It says like this transaction cannot be included in a block, 17:05 like until this block height or until this date. 17:09 By the way, can the host invite Hielo to the stage? 17:13 I want to hear his opinion about CLTV as well, 17:16 but go ahead, Paul. 17:18 So if you divide it into these eras, 17:24 SegWit was a very special case where you had, 17:28 even SegWit was not really the, 17:31 what happened was there was the block size dispute in 2015 17:34 and it spilled over into, 17:36 and it destroyed a lot of, 17:37 it made the community polarized and there was no, 17:41 in the past, the activation threshold was 95% hash rate. 17:47 And this was, I think mostly it's just done as a courtesy 17:50 so that no one would be left behind. 17:52 It was like, okay, we all agree that we want this. 17:55 We all agree that we will upgrade. 17:58 We don't, we just don't know 18:00 when enough people have upgraded. 18:02 So we'll signal here and you get to 95, 18:06 but there was no, 18:07 there was no sense of someone blocking it until SegWit, 18:10 there was a 9% pool after scaling three 18:13 and they decided to just defect 18:15 from Bitcoin Core completely, this blocked SegWit. 18:18 And this created the new modern era, 18:20 which is defined completely by the politicization, 18:24 political football, soft fork, 18:27 which is SegWit and Taproot and now nothing. 18:31 And so I think, and of course, 18:33 as I've pointed out a few times, 18:36 from when SegWit was proposed, 18:39 first proposed to when it was coded and then activated, 18:42 that was 20 months in the case of SegWit, 18:46 but in the case of Taproot, it was 46 months. 18:48 So if you just, I think if you extrapolate that trend, 18:53 you get a very, very long delay between soft forks. 18:57 Although now you see that people reacting to that. 19:00 They say, they say like, we, this is, 19:04 this way of doing things is unacceptable. 19:07 And they want, you have like Moonsettler 19:09 and other people like militantly pushing 19:12 the sort of faster soft fork. 19:14 And then you have, you know, people like Luke who, 19:16 I can't, you know, I don't understand Luke's, 19:18 but I think Luke's a smart guy. 19:19 And I think he knows a lot about Bitcoin, 19:21 but he has this really weird combination of beliefs 19:25 that are like miner, whatever miners do 19:27 must be totally ignored. 19:29 And miners are not users. 19:31 He says the users have to activate the soft fork, 19:32 but to him, miners are not users. 19:34 Did you ever have a dinner with Paul, with Luke? 19:39 I don't recall having dinner with him. 19:40 Of course, I've met him in person a few times. 19:43 Maybe we did have dinner once or twice. 19:45 Dinner, maybe like lunch or breakfast. 19:51 I think maybe we were at the same. 19:53 Maybe, maybe, maybe Korean. 19:57 It's possible. I think so. I mean, I've met him a few times. Like sometimes it's like, we had like, for example, a consensus in New York city back when that was a conference. 20:05 I feel like what I want to ask you about is probably something that you would remember. 20:13 Did you ever have, no, I'm sorry. There's like, someone's telling me a joke. It's unrelated to what I'm about to say. 20:22 Did you ever have like a dinner at the pet shelter, maybe? 20:28 Yeah, that's, that's very funny. I mean, I remember when Luke had, he used to have, you know, he's an interesting guy, you know. 20:39 Sorry, Paul, I have a question. Have you ever tried talking with Adam Beck? 20:48 We've talked to Adam Beck many times. About what specifically? 20:52 Publicly, is there like a recording of you and Adam Beck? 20:56 At Bitcoin Amsterdam two conferences ago, we did a big sidechains, like fireside chat. And it's like, it's pretty long. I think it was like 35 minutes or something. 21:06 Just him and me and Aaron was there to like facilitate, which he did a great job. So you can look that up. 21:13 I think it was called like the future of sidechains, Bitcoin Amsterdam. And yeah, of course, Adam Beck and I, I mean, it's Adam Beck in a way has been the only thing. 21:23 He was like keeping this drivechain idea alive. You know, it's weird, because his company has been killing the sidechain idea, in my view, and, you know, sort of more or less misleading people. 21:37 And yet he himself, maybe because of that, or in spite of that, I don't know. But he is, he has always been very supportive of drivechain. 21:47 And in fact, at Baltic Honey, two Baltic Honey Badgers ago, he said, on stage, in front of everyone, this quote that I put on the site that was like, well, he says something along the lines of, well, we just spent like five years doing Taproot. 22:01 But arguably, that is not, you know, very useful. We should could have done drivechain instead and had all this other stuff. Billions of UTXOs. 22:10 I honestly could have watched paint dry instead. It probably would have been much more constructive than Taproot. But another request to the host, can you maybe invite Hampus on stage? 22:21 Because he's like a toxic CTV double agent, nation state agent. 22:29 I think I just found the cure for insomnia, by the way. 22:33 Yo, are you still in Greece? 22:41 Yeah, always. I can't believe this shit. 22:45 No, because I remember that you flew to the wrong, what was it? Which wrong city was it? 22:55 I was meant to go to Miami, Florida for the conference back there. And Craig's Craig's has booked my ticket for Miami, Ohio. But that was one one time only. 23:08 Oh, my God. That's like something that's like a TV sitcom thing. And you think that never happens in real life. 23:15 I know. Right. It's like a meme or something. 23:19 And they're like, yeah, well, yeah, there's a lot of Athens in the United States. There's like a couple. It's like a Paris, Paris, France. I mean, Paris, Texas, I think people sometimes occasionally. 23:33 You know what, Paul? Hearing you in these spaces for a while now, you started to grow on me, man. Like, I really want to meet you now. And like, I have so many questions for you. 23:49 He's fairly tall, yellow. So you should bring a like a ladder or maybe like a chair. 23:57 Do you come to Miami or Miami, New York or New Haven? There's Bitcoin meetups that I go to. 24:09 Yeah, you have to come to the right Miami, the one, the one by the water. 24:14 Oh, yeah. And that's what happens when you make crypto popular, everyone. This is what happens. Are you happy now? 24:27 Yes. See, this is the thing. This is why naming is important. 24:33 Yellow, did you actually go to a conference ever? 24:37 No. 24:43 Why would I? 24:46 Where else would you meet all the podcasters? 24:49 Did you know that I sent poop to Peter? Did you know that? 24:53 Did I know what? 24:55 I sent poop to Peter. 24:57 What was it to you? 25:01 Allegedly. 25:03 Do you know who it really was? 25:04 Yeah, I'm familiar with that strategy. 25:07 Yeah, it's great. 25:13 So, Hapus is coming back up or no? Hapus? 25:17 ex -guy or something, but I'm taking credit. 25:22 Yeah, I'm familiar with that strategy. 25:25 it's great. 25:31 Hapos is coming back up or no? 25:33 Hapos! 25:35 I mean, if he doesn't accept, then he can't, you know, you never know. 25:40 people are like driving or something. 25:42 What is using the LayerTwo Labs account? 25:47 He's downvoting me. 25:51 Who are you? 25:53 it's one the the fifth 25:58 of fifth of the fifth 26:04 Do you have a vendetta against one to I What are you talking about started a vendetta 26:10 man? Now? It's like popular. 26:11 and shit, like it's crazy now. 26:13 I studied that. 26:16 Oh, I mean, they're so weird and they are completely, they're the epitome of this fake 26:21 thing where you have sinned in the past and then you become like a, 26:27 you know, like a deranged, 26:29 deranged priest, purely powered by guilt 26:34 and inauthenticity. it's just so - Wait. 26:39 you mean Cory? 26:40 know that Cory, whenever I go in a tourist space, Cory's always in the audience as a 26:46 burner account. Always 100 26:47 % of the time. 26:47 So I know he's listening right now. 26:49 Corey is... I don't think he believes a single word of what he says. 26:55 I don't think that he's actually 26:58 trying to redeem his previous sins. 27:05 I think you're right about that. 27:07 I mean, I think it's more sociopathic even than that, where it's just, this is the script. 27:14 But I think they reach the script via their past shitcoining. 27:21 So it's just an extra. 27:24 It's they, by the way, it's just him. 27:26 literally duped every single swan employee. 27:29 Like the rest are genuine laser Yeah, they just think that it's like, you know, they 27:34 think that it's like some kind of chain code or something. 27:38 Like it's like a pro Bitcoin company. 27:41 And it's just like this weird. 27:44 It's always fun to hear who they're trying to use and think 27:49 of non -legal words, non -legal trigger words to use. 27:58 Like dupes. 28:01 mean, like a lot of this stuff I would be, you know, I would sign an affidavit or 28:06 whatever for a lot of this. 28:07 It's pretty easy to establish, whatever. 28:11 It's not going to make any difference. 28:12 I don't know, you know what 28:15 to say about that. 28:17 But you know that Yellow had, it's true, had a long time, Vendetta against the 28:22 replicators. 28:23 Aha, well that's always a good feeling when your Vendetta starts to get validated by 28:28 other people. congratulations. 28:31 actually was in 28:33 a poll space once ago and asked him about the replicators. 28:37 And he was like, the replicators? 28:39 He didn't know about it. 28:41 I didn't know. 28:42 I mean, well, I've read Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. 28:47 And I was like, he's probably not talking about that. 28:51 So I just went with a question mark. 28:55 uh... 28:57 Do you want tell us what they are? 28:59 They're just fake Twitter accounts that aren't real? 29:03 that's my favorite subject. 29:05 What are you talking about? 29:06 The replicators are from 29:08 a far away universe, 29:12 and we first 29:15 made contact with them through the Stargate, and what they do is they infect your 29:20 world, right? And they start replicating shit like macro, macro, macro, 29:25 And all of a sudden, you turn around and it's like everything, it's like replicating it. 29:36 And it's a thing, it happens every time. 29:40 You can see up there in your timeline, in spaces where you can see some spaces are gray. 29:47 Those are like all macro spaces. 29:50 And they're replicating all the time and they're using sponsors. 29:53 and shit like that fake money and they're longing 1X now. 29:58 you know, replicate stuff and they're really, there 30:04 are a different threat than not a lot people talking about it. 30:08 Yeah, I've got a great book recommendation for 30:11 you in which replicators are featured. 30:14 There is a book called The Beginning of Infinity and there's two chapters called The 30:19 Evolution of Culture and The Evolution of Creativity, which are about 30:24 replicators. Have you read that? 30:27 Have you read that though? 30:29 Yes, I have. 30:31 Right. 30:33 do you think? 30:34 going to be up here recommending some crazy book I haven't read? 30:37 Wait, what do you think I'm going to stand up here and recommend a lightning roller 30:40 that I never used? 30:42 I? What am I, Michael Sander? 30:44 am I? am I, Sifid Yeen? 30:46 am 30:47 am I, am I, I, am I, am am am am what what am 30:52 am 31:04 You would always be saying these like very, very tame things, Rusty Russell, they would 31:12 always just be like, well, it doesn't really work if fees are high, it doesn't really work 31:15 if you can't reach L1 in time, it doesn't really work for blah, blah, blah, a long, 31:20 long list of things. 31:23 And then yet, this is just the biggest sacred cow of them all, for to say anything against 31:28 lightning is a heresy and a betrayal. 31:31 Yeah, my experience is that actual developers who actually work on Lightning are very humble 31:38 in how they talk about it and very down to earth and actually seem to be more concerned 31:45 about using it than even I am. 31:49 But then everyone else is like, yeah, it's like, you can't even, if you even dare say 31:55 anything. 31:56 Like, I literally. 31:58 on Twitter Space like two years ago. 32:00 said a couple of things about Lightning that I don't think it's working. 32:04 Oh my gosh. 32:05 was before I excommunicated myself from the laser I 32:11 cold when I was still a cold member. 32:15 And yeah, was not 32:16 an easy experience. 32:18 People took it very difficult. 32:20 remember the yellow... 32:22 You still are a of I'm still what? 32:26 You still are a part of the cult. 32:30 I mean, I started a new cult. 32:33 We have our own cult 32:35 now. 32:38 don't think so. 32:39 You're a part of the cult, but you like to say that you're not. 32:44 I get it. 32:45 thing is... 32:48 you in the cult, Yellow or not? 32:50 I am the prophet, You are the cult. 32:54 Yeah, I am the cult. 32:56 Okay, great. Yeah. 32:59 So, the thing is, gotta understand everybody. 33:03 As Sailor says, 33:06 Bitcoin is like some kind of energy force or some shit. 33:10 and like the thing 33:12 is the lighting network is like droplets of that energy, I 33:18 guess, if you think about it in the same way. 33:21 then like liquid is like the vapor or some 33:27 shit. I don't know, man, I'm confused too, but it worked. 33:30 worked, so... It's pretty much the best, I think it's the technically accurate 33:35 explanation I've heard. 33:38 know, I also do mempool TA, if you're interested. 33:44 you tell me... 33:46 if it's head and mempool? 33:49 No, no, no, you're so behind in fucking like cultural stuff, guys, come on. 33:57 Mempool TA is an ever-growing new kind of industry forming around guessing the fees, 34:05 where they're gonna go, up or down. 34:08 So what I do is I pretend I'm an expert and I see the mempools spiking or dropping 34:15 and I draw some lines to it. 34:17 it and you know like now we have a descending triangle for me you 34:23 know and they're gonna spike it a little bit but then we're gonna drop and consolidate 34:28 more 34:28 have 34:32 to say this about 34:38 being 34:39 being a part of the Bitcoin industry, which is that it has all these colorful characters in it, 34:46 which, you know, I really wouldn't trade it for anything. It is definitely tiresome at times, 34:51 but when I compare this to, like, whatever university or, like, other industries, 35:00 you know, in the ancient past that I may have been a part of, 35:05 We just have like this crazy cast of characters here and people just get together and 35:12 people are so funny, honestly. 35:16 And that's how you co -opt that co -option of 35:21 foodie. 35:22 That's the only way. 35:25 That's the only way. 35:26 When somebody smiles and you don't like what he's saying, the only way is 35:32 to smile back. 35:33 Whoever is listening and is like beating about like what am I doing up here. 35:38 That's what I'm doing. 35:40 Okay. 35:43 Well, yeah, no, it's a lot of fun. 35:45 mean, because there's so much, the standards are so high, like you can get criticized 35:50 by anyone in any way. 35:53 And that's fascinating. 35:56 And it's never a dull moment, 35:59 moment, of course. 36:02 you know, on that topic, I know that DLO is a distinguished 36:08 member of many of the top leading laser -ion meme groups. 36:15 you know, some people only, only 36:18 only have, only get lucky enough or fortunate enough to be members of one meme group. 36:23 But Yellow is truly bridging between all tribes and sects of Bitcoin meme tardation. 36:35 And therefore, I want to ask you, Yellow, because I have actually a lot of people in my DMs. 36:43 who are closeted ordinals enjoyers. 36:49 So they still have the laser eye on their PFP 36:53 and they're still pretending to be complete idiots in public, 36:57 but they can't have their friends find out 37:00 or their parents, God forbid. 37:02 But in private, they go to Magic Eden and they sweep the floor every night and buy JPEGs. 37:11 So, and they're talking to me, they're asking me for advice and, you know, which wallet should they use and how do you speed up transactions and what's going on. 37:22 So my question to you is in your highly exclusive meme groups, do you see 37:28 that as well or do you find that people cannot show their true skin 37:34 yet within those groups? 37:40 No, 37:40 There are very few, but they just say it, we give them a little bit crap, but we don't 37:49 care that much to be honest, we make fun of them a little bit, but it is what it is. 37:59 Why don't you out those guys that are DMing you? 38:04 I mean, it's their decision. 38:05 would be cruel. 38:06 Yes, their decision to decide when they want to make it public. 38:10 Is it like having all the new gay thing now? 38:15 Yeah, they're they're yeah, they're fully in the closet still. 38:18 they can't show. 38:20 And they're afraid that their parents are going to reject them 38:22 if they know that they buy JPEGs and... 38:26 God forbid, followers. 38:28 yes, all the more. 38:29 You're your parents are the rules. 38:31 I don't get that. 38:32 point. 38:34 For me, know, I think it's stupid. 38:38 From the other hand, I don't care 38:40 if people do it, still Bitcoin, so. 38:45 Randomly wanted to point out, if you have any real question or comment 38:50 about anything, 38:54 drivechain or or noz, cetera, then feel 38:58 afraid to me off now? 39:00 I'm saying that we want to respect the time of the audience. 39:08 And I'm sure this is great content. 39:10 This is rivaling Dave Chappelle, I'm sure. 39:14 just wanted to throw it out there in case there's 39:16 anyone with dying to know something. 39:21 I don't have to wait until next Friday. 39:24 What could they possibly ask me? 39:27 Is there anything that someone doesn't know that I could answer? 39:32 How to write a great tweet. 39:34 That's actually remarkably easy. 39:39 So what you do is, first, you create a lot of haters, right? 39:47 So you just like go to all their tweets, reply things that they get pissed about, right? 39:53 Just be super annoying to a very specific group of people. 39:57 And then once they all know you as the annoying guy... 40:00 They're looking at everything you say, right? 40:03 And then you block them, all of them. 40:05 100% of those people, you block all of them. 40:07 So what they do, they're so pissed now, because they're really upset at you. 40:12 And then you block them too, so they create a new account, 40:15 and they put your notifications on the new account, 40:17 because they hate you so much. 40:19 And then what you do, you continue, while you're having them blocked, 40:22 you continue to say things that will piss them off. 40:26 And you know that it will ring their phone whenever you do it, 40:29 and they'll show it to all their friends. 40:31 So you don't actually need to do anything. 40:35 They're going to do all the propagation for you. 40:38 you just need to set the stage first. 40:41 Find a group of people, make them hate you to their very soul, and then 40:47 cut it off. 40:48 Immediately, day, block all of will lose themselves. 40:52 Udy stop it. 40:54 How can I get 40:54 a wizard how can I get a wizard that proved wizard how can I get it 41:03 I mean if I knew I would have told you I literally don't know I don't 41:08 know your people are here time 41:11 to go bye 41:13 yo 41:19 do you consider yourself an oodiot 41:25 you already left no no connecting 41:28 Connecting. Hard braking. 41:30 don't know why. 41:30 I seem to have so much trouble with the stupid spaces on my phone and always kicking me 41:35 out or braking or something. 41:37 What do you want to ask me? 41:39 You've got a new phone, but whatever. 41:42 Life goes on. 41:43 do you want to ask me? 41:43 What do you think about Nostr? 41:45 I thought it was a great idea to get all the laser eyes to move to another website. 41:55 I thought it was a really awesome goal. 42:02 I don't think it succeeded, like they're still around, but it was a good attempt. 42:07 I think it was nice. 42:09 Network effects are just so important. 42:11 Like why would Elon pay? 42:13 Whatever that was 40 something billion dollars When you could just you know with like 42:19 with like 50 million dollars you could just like poach some employees and make a 42:23 comparable site Think about it. 42:25 If $40 billion he would have 42:28 instead bought Bitcoin for $40 billion, then he wouldn't have had to work at all 42:34 and now it would have been worth 2X. 42:37 He's definitely no sloth. 42:42 He's got, he wants, he's like the guy when you're on a team project and someone 42:48 has a very specific vision for the project and they're willing to do 80 % 42:54 of the work and then everyone else just slacks off. 43:00 Anyway, so the network effects are important so you can't just, everyone says, well, if 43:05 we just get everyone to switch, but 43:07 that little if never happens. 43:10 I love Fiatjaf is great. 43:12 Jaffa is one of the first people to acquire some serious prestige 43:17 as an individual and a creator of Noster. 43:22 He's not literally the creator, but he's like the lead guy, 43:26 He's the lead owner responsible of Nostr, and he was one of the first to just be like lightning is a complete failure, we need to just get rid of it. 43:38 And he's the biggest drivechain shill, he's an even bigger shill than me, he's made numerous public comments that are something like 43:46 If Bitcoin doesn't merge, Drivechains, the whole project will fail, Drivechain is our 43:51 only hope, etc. 43:52 So it's kind of funny that he's a huge supporter of mine, I always feel a little guilty about 43:58 I'm really not very active on Noster, I kind of have it on my phone and I don't really 44:04 use it yet. 44:05 Did you consider joining forces with Thea Jeff? 44:11 and rebranding Drivechain as Noster Chain. 44:17 keep it the same thing. 44:18 That's a good idea. 44:19 But you rebranded Noster Chain and you did Noster token and just like just 44:25 just flow with it, know, just go with that and see where it takes it. 44:29 That could be a good idea. 44:31 mean, Noster relays the the withdrawal hashes. 44:35 since anything can do that, you would just say yes and 44:39 No one can tell him not to create the NOSTR token, like he's the creator of NOSTR, so he can do whatever he wants. 44:46 And I think... 44:50 You're like the Apple of Discord. This is like Udi, or whoever that was. 44:55 Ares? 44:57 These are throwing in chaos, mixing up chaos. 45:01 Which I appreciate, because we need more chaos. 45:05 It is chaotic, but also... 45:07 think you would end up with Drivechains. 45:10 What do you guys think about I think that's like true innovation in Zaps. 45:16 Zaps? paying someone one Satoshi in 45:20 Lightning? 45:24 that's the innovation. 45:25 mean, if that's what you're getting paid, most of us are not. 45:32 Yeah, how much do you get per zap? 45:35 Per zap, minimum 21. 45:39 21 sat. 45:42 Minimum. 45:46 Well, I mean, know that it can't, the Lightning Network is supposed to be using these 45:51 HTLCs so that people can enforce 45:54 The channel, if anyone tries to broadcast old state and steal all the money, but to enforce an HTLC requires you to drag an awful lot of bytes on chain, you know, the pre-image, then it creates an input that you have to spend. Inputs are like 100 bytes. So the whole thing's like... 46:12 kind of a lot. 46:15 can be like, the whole thing can be half of a 220 byte transaction. 46:19 if the transaction fees are like five, six dollars or ten dollars, then 46:32 It's just people forward the money based on reputation, 46:38 Just thinking it's a small amount of money. 46:40 But this is why we have few LSPs, 46:44 because you have to lock up capital and you have capital at risk, 46:51 and the fees that you collect will not be enough to offset the cost, 46:57 which is why people instead just use a few LSPs. 47:00 They do everything based on reputation. 47:03 And a lot of what is supposedly a Lightning, 47:06 this is ZAP is a perfect example of something 47:08 where the name is deliberately chosen 47:12 to make it seem like it's using the Lightning Network. 47:16 When in reality, it is kind of, 47:18 it's not really using the Lightning Network idea, 47:20 it is using pre-established payment channels, 47:23 but the money is just forwarded to, 47:26 so the money is not routed. 47:28 across this P2P network. 47:30 It's just a middleman who is taking a cut 47:36 and extending credit to people, basically. 47:42 Anyway, we have a hand. 47:45 Hello. 47:48 Hi. Sorry, I was sick. 47:50 My voice is a little bit cracked. 47:53 Don't wonder. I have two questions. 47:56 The first question is, 48:00 I'm wondering what would be the scenario if really we get into a bull run, how 48:06 affected with all those things where the people are complaining at the moment. 48:12 example, ordinals or stamps. 48:16 is your expectation in a bull run? 48:19 How could it affect the market? 48:22 where will the money flow? 48:24 you 48:24 be more specific about...? 48:26 Because I have seen many bull runs, I do know what happens. 48:30 throwing out their poll. 48:33 gotta head out in five minutes. 48:36 Yes, yes, of course. 48:38 Thanks for joining us. 48:40 If anyone has any UDI -specific 48:42 questions or angry comments or whatever, get them in quick. 48:48 Go yourself a week. 48:51 That's a good question. 48:55 Yeah. Yeah. So what do you specifically mean about the market? 48:59 fees go 49:00 up but people don't care because the price is going up so everyone just feels great. 49:06 of really dumb stuff will get funded at that time because people will advantage of... 49:11 But could it be possible that really Bitcoin reaches the limit and can be some kind of 49:15 collapse because everybody is doing shit on it? 49:19 Well, that's kind of a separate thing, but usually, yes, what happens is the blocks get 49:26 very full during the bull market because everyone's buying and even people who have made money 49:31 want to sell. 49:32 So everyone is transacting and Bitcoin gets a lot of attention in the media. 49:38 People post their favorite all-time high song on Twitter. 49:42 People are partying on Reddit. 49:44 So this type of stuff happens. 49:46 in each bull market. 49:51 But that's unusable that people really consider an alternative like 49:56 Drivechain? 49:57 Ah, well, I think actually, no, I would say not during the bull market is 50:01 when everyone just feels happy. And everyone feels like it is working. And 50:04 everyone feels like everything's going great. Okay. And then that is always 50:08 followed, you know, it's followed by, you know, sometimes we have years of 50:13 of it not going up. And then in that, in those cases, people get really, really miserable. 50:18 And if you had high fees, and the price was not going up, 50:23 there's always like a generation of people who made a bunch of money, you know. And there's also 50:29 a generation of like desperate people who are the last ones in. And those people are, and these, 50:34 those are the people who are like the laser eye podcast adherence today. This is like a huge group 50:39 of people. 50:41 that are new and that they have not made money yet, and so they are just kind of 50:46 restless, you might say. 50:48 But I think what will eventually spur people, I think, to adopt Drivechain is we'll put this testnet out. 50:58 Eventually, the technology will be so complete and so easy to use, which is very close to this point already, 51:04 where we have multiple sidechains. 51:07 Privacy, scalability, extensibility, EVM, Ethereum, whatever, other things, Namecoin, messaging, etc. 51:15 So eventually it will reach that point and it will be, you know, and someone will launch like, 51:21 as you know, it's like a SkyDoge type thing, more and more people will launch, like Litecoin 51:25 launched with SegWit. It didn't launch with SegWit, but you know what I mean, that they 51:31 add it and then eventually there's, you know. 51:34 FOMO in that dimension. 51:36 I think that that is what will, 51:39 I think the having also be rough for miners. 51:42 we want people to be kind of upset and that will stimulate 51:48 a search, creative search for new ideas. 51:52 But when the price is going up, 51:53 thinks. Oh, we have it all figured out Okay, so you don't think that it will impact it 51:58 so much that it really some kind of Maybe collapse while the run because we're getting 52:04 so much attention. 52:05 Everybody don't expect that I did Maybe it's a crazy scenario. 52:09 I wasn't sure this is why I'm asking professionals. 52:11 Maybe 52:12 I'm going to skip to my second question. 52:14 I just saw that Luke was not really supporting Drivechain anymore, 52:21 and I was wondering what's going on there. 52:23 Maybe could it be interesting to invite him and to hear his opinion? 52:29 I'm just wondering what's going on. 52:31 I think I know already what it is. 52:33 He thinks that he would never use – Luke is very – like Luke has – 52:39 a lot of people have different kind of philosophical orientation towards 52:43 quote the miners, end quote. 52:47 Luke views them with suspicious – Luke, it's almost like a quasi-religious 52:51 thing where he thinks they will always be tempted by sin and there must be 52:57 consequences and monitoring to keep them on a very short leash. 53:03 He's very miner skeptical and miner distrustful, 53:08 and he just thinks that depositing coins into BIP300 is sort of giving them 53:13 to the miners and that they might give them back. 53:16 He doesn't really believe – you know, like I have laid out very clearly. 53:19 I just do – this is how much miners can make in fees alone versus this is 53:24 how much – this is the upper ceiling on how much could be deposited. 53:28 And so a greedy miner will – see you later, Rudy. 53:33 A greedy miner will want to keep it alive. 53:36 So I only rely on the miner's greed for them to want to follow the BIP300 paradigm. 53:48 And – but Luke just thinks that there's no – but Luke also thought back in 2017 53:57 that the large blockers, you know, they wanted this combination of traits, 54:03 this would give them what they want, and it would also keep the Layer 1 block size small. 54:08 And so that was kind of like – that's kind of like been his position the whole time. 54:13 So he thinks that people should – he says there's nothing wrong with it at all 54:17 and people should be allowed to use it, but his own personal opinion is that 54:22 he finds no use in it at all. 54:27 I think that's the wrong criterion, but that maybe explains his perplexing 54:32 combination of comments. Does that make any sense? 54:36 Yeah, okay. I try to understand. I always listen LayerTwo Labs spaces twice 54:42 because it's not always easy for me to proceed everything. 54:49 Okay, great, cool. 54:54 Well, we'll see if anyone else will come up. 54:57 I have to get back to work myself shipping this testnet, but I do enjoy the Friday spaces, 55:04 so if anyone has something they'd like to know about, then please come up. 55:11 Recently this week I tweeted about what I call the Core Untouched Soft Fork, 55:17 which is kind of like it's as – it makes each fork so that you can do it 55:25 without changing Bitcoin Core, so it's really like a soft fork without a soft fork, 55:30 without the political distraction of the soft fork meme. 55:38 And this should really show people why it is the soft fork has the properties that it does 55:44 because it is possible to basically add to the protocol by simply adding 55:54 new pieces of software next to Bitcoin Core. 55:59 So the Bitcoin Core piece doesn't really need to change for the feature to be activated 56:04 for all the people who opt in. But yeah, I don't know if this is going to be very easy 56:08 for other people to understand, but basically you could add a CTV by just running 56:14 like a CTV software next to Bitcoin Core. 56:19 So you don't actually have to go through the work of editing Bitcoin Core, 56:22 figuring out what is the style guide, how have they refactored the code, 56:27 what stuff are they doing. You just don't interact with them at all. 56:31 You let Bitcoin Core be Bitcoin Core, and you add the BIP119 module. 56:37 And then as long as you run both pieces of software, you're watching the network for 119, 56:43 and then if 51% of the hash rate runs the two pieces of software, 56:50 then it has activated for everyone and is safe to use. 56:58 So that is an idea that I tweeted about. 57:03 I think people will probably have very strong opinions about it when they finally get around 57:10 to understanding it, but I think that's an interesting thing that happened this week. 57:19 We see Klaus is still in the audience, and he's still going to be tweeting at me 57:24 to look into Chia, and I'm still probably not going to because I just don't really see 57:33 how it's relevant to anything that I'm working on, but I do appreciate his determination. 57:43 And then, of course, if no one has anything that they want to ask, we can close the space 57:53 because I do have a lot to do. 57:58 So come on up quick. 58:08 Okay, cool. Seems like no one wants to say anything, so we'll end the space. 58:14 Thanks very much, everyone. Thanks to Udi for dropping by. 58:19 He has like a billion great people who love and hate him on Twitter, so it's nice to have him in. 58:26 And see everyone on Twitter. See everyone next week.
